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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Why don't you tell us what's not justified about this deal.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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justified may not be the right term
surely you can understand the public concern of shooting a 12 year old with a bb gun with little more than just a shrug of the shoulders and calling him stupid
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Why don't you tell us what's not justified about this deal. If you could read you might have noticed I didn't say a thing about whether I thought it was justified or not. That wasn't my point. Hope that knee jerking doesn't bust your jaw. ETA: You sure proved my point.
Last edited by RufusG; 11/24/14.
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Campfire Ranger
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[quote=KFWA]justified may not be the right term
surely you can understand the public concern of shooting a 12 year old with a bb gun with little more than just a shrug of the shoulders and calling him stupid [/
Well, the part you forget about using deadly force is, that it is generally also justified in using such level of force to stop serious physical injury, as well as deadly force intent upon you.
But I digress, please answer my question How was that cop supposed to know it was a BB gun?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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justified may not be the right term
surely you can understand the public concern of shooting a 12 year old with a bb gun with little more than just a shrug of the shoulders and calling him stupid If your son was standing there and the deceased was pointing what you knew to be a BB gun right at his eye from "can't miss" distance, would you shoot the kid or just let him shoot your son in the eye. If it saves just one child's life then it's worth a bunch of eyeballs, ain't it?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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[quote=KFWA]justified may not be the right term
surely you can understand the public concern of shooting a 12 year old with a bb gun with little more than just a shrug of the shoulders and calling him stupid [/
Well, the part you forget about using deadly force is, that it is generally also justified in using such level of force to stop serious physical injury, as well as deadly force intent upon you.
But I digress, please answer my question How was that cop supposed to know it was a BB gun? I never had said he was supposed to know.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Campfire Outfitter
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BB guns can cause serious bodily injury and may result in death. By legal standards, lethal force can be used.
I have to wonder why the boy had this bb gun and at a playground? I further question how he obtained said bb gun as that most place you need to be 18 or older to purchase one. Who obtained the bb gun, was it stolen ect? Where are the parents ect?
This was a tragic incident for all involved, that could have been averted but again, where the deceased had some responsibility in his own death.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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justified may not be the right term
surely you can understand the public concern of shooting a 12 year old with a bb gun with little more than just a shrug of the shoulders and calling him stupid If your son was standing there and the deceased was pointing what you knew to be a BB gun right at his eye from "can't miss" distance, would you shoot the kid or just let him shoot your son in the eye. If it saves just one child's life then it's worth a bunch of eyeballs, ain't it? do I get to make up scenarios that support my position or do I just have to go with yours?
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Kid was playing gangster and died just like a gangster, pulled a gun on a LEO.
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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[quote=KFWA]justified may not be the right term
surely you can understand the public concern of shooting a 12 year old with a bb gun with little more than just a shrug of the shoulders and calling him stupid [/
Well, the part you forget about using deadly force is, that it is generally also justified in using such level of force to stop serious physical injury, as well as deadly force intent upon you.
But I digress, please answer my question How was that cop supposed to know it was a BB gun? I never had said he was supposed to know. That's exactly what ypu have been insinuating throughout this thread
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Campfire Regular
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The gun I saw looked remarkably similar to one of my 1911s. 12 year old kids kill people these days. Unfortunate. BTW, where are Barry, Al, and Jesse on this one?
Hang on to your memories; they're better than the real thing ever was - Joe Sherlock
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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justified may not be the right term
surely you can understand the public concern of shooting a 12 year old with a bb gun with little more than just a shrug of the shoulders and calling him stupid If your son was standing there and the deceased was pointing what you knew to be a BB gun right at his eye from "can't miss" distance, would you shoot the kid or just let him shoot your son in the eye. If it saves just one child's life then it's worth a bunch of eyeballs, ain't it? do I get to make up scenarios that support my position or do I just have to go with yours? A scenario illustrating the ridiculousness of your position is stupid? Okay.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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[quote=KFWA]justified may not be the right term
surely you can understand the public concern of shooting a 12 year old with a bb gun with little more than just a shrug of the shoulders and calling him stupid [/
Well, the part you forget about using deadly force is, that it is generally also justified in using such level of force to stop serious physical injury, as well as deadly force intent upon you.
But I digress, please answer my question How was that cop supposed to know it was a BB gun? I never had said he was supposed to know. That's exactly what ypu have been insinuating throughout this thread no, you're reading what you want to read. I'm sorry, but if a cop feels he is justified in shooting a 12 year old kid for shooting a bb gun at him - knowing it was a bb gun - then turn in your badge, change the law and lets collectively hold our head in shame as a society.
An airsoft gun or a bb gun or a Colt 1911 tucked into the waist band of a kid - OK I get that - you can't tell if its a real gun (real gun being - its shoots a damn bullet with gunpowder, not air) .I'm not happy about it because dammit, you give a 12 year old the benefit of the doubt, but I get it
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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justified may not be the right term
surely you can understand the public concern of shooting a 12 year old with a bb gun with little more than just a shrug of the shoulders and calling him stupid If your son was standing there and the deceased was pointing what you knew to be a BB gun right at his eye from "can't miss" distance, would you shoot the kid or just let him shoot your son in the eye. If it saves just one child's life then it's worth a bunch of eyeballs, ain't it? do I get to make up scenarios that support my position or do I just have to go with yours? A scenario illustrating the ridiculousness of your position is stupid? Okay. ok, how about using your taser then? or do you keep your distance from lethal...cough..cough... BB guns at 30 feet from crack shot 12 year olds? at this point nothing is more ridiculous to me than pushing an idea of a cop being concerned that a bb gun is lethal. but...but...he could put an eye out!!!!!! Careful Jim...he's packing a lawn jart. He might throw it up in the air and it stick in your head! Shoot him! SHOOOOOOOT HIMMMM!!!!!!!
Last edited by KFWA; 11/24/14.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Why do people keep bringing up what damage a BB gun can do?
It doesn't have anything to do with the case, or any other case where anyone is brandishing something that would case a reasonable and prudent person to believe it is a firearm.
It could have been carved out of wood and painted black, and the premise is still the same.
Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla!
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Campfire Ranger
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because the topic was brought up (and supported) that if a kid points a bb gun at you and you know its a bb gun, you can blow his head off to protect your eye.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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Campfire Tracker
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There is video of this incident and it will be looked at by a grand jury. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/grand-jury-will-hear-case-tamir-rice-12-year-old-n255036A grand jury in Cleveland will decide whether to charge an officer who shot and killed a 12-year-old boy holding a toy gun at a park over the weekend, officials said Monday. Investigators have obtained video evidence of the moment a Cleveland police officer shot Tamir Rice, police chief Calvin Williams said at a news conference Monday. The video is not yet being released, but Cleveland Deputy Chief Ed Tomba said it showed the officer was "very close" when he fired the two shots at the boy's torso. Two officers were involved in the incident, but only one of them fired a gun.
All evidence, including the video, will be considered in an ongoing investigation before it is presented to a grand jury, Williams said. The Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's office, which is overseeing the case, has a policy of presenting all fatal police shootings to a grand jury. "These cases are so serious, so important, that there should be a citizen review," Cuyahoga County Prosecutor Timothy J. McGinty said Monday.
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence". John Adams
"A dishonest man can always be trusted to be dishonest". Captain Jack Sparrow
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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because the topic was brought up (and supported) that if a kid points a bb gun at you and you know its a bb gun, you can blow his head off to protect your eye. No, you can die from a BB, something that has been pointed out to you, but that you continue to ignore. Also, I asked you if you'd have shot the kid to protect your own son's eye. You dodged the answer. Emotion, it clouds facts and objective thinking every time.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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because the topic was brought up (and supported) that if a kid points a bb gun at you and you know its a bb gun, you can blow his head off to protect your eye. No, you can die from a BB, something that has been pointed out to you, but that you continue to ignore. Also, I asked you if you'd have shot the kid to protect your own son's eye. You dodged the answer. Emotion, it clouds facts and objective thinking every time. ok, as absurd as your scenario is, if it were my son I'd probably shot the kid but here is where you're scenario breaks down - this kid , as far as what I've read here shows, had not shot anyone, was not pointing it at the eye of another kid or even at the eye of a cop. There wasn't an adult there pleading with the kid to put the gun down (again, from what I've read here) to go even further, this is between a cop, sworn to protect the public, and a kid on a playground acting a fool - no one's child (other than the parents of the 12 year old ) is in danger. I'm not sure how or why you think you are making a point about protecting the eye of your kid in this scenario. What I'd like to think is we live in a society where an adult would have told the kid to put that damn bb gun down or he'd whip his ass with a belt. but instead we have to hear about getting your eye put out by lethal bb guns being wielded by 12 year old crack shots so its ok to unload your clip into them.
Last edited by KFWA; 11/24/14.
have you paid your dues, can you moan the blues, can you bend them guitar strings
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This is yet another reason why I'm 100% for all cops wearing vest cameras.
Just like the recent story were a cop stopped a guy at a gas station and demanded he show him his drivers license, when the man turned to retrieve his wallet the cop shot him in the back. Without video that bad cop probably would have gotten off scott free.
The fact that it was a BB gun is irrelevant. If the cop confronted the kid and ordered him to drop his gun but the kid wasn't holding the gun at that moment it stands to reason that he would have had to reach for it to drop it. A video and audio record of the confrontation would prove whether or not the cop gave him time to comply or simply shot him out of fear.
Edited: Apparently there is video of the indecent but it has not been released yet.
Last edited by justin10mm; 11/24/14.
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