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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,718
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,718 |
What is the magic on this 284? I have always skipped over all the articles on it, just was not on my radar screen. It has 2 grains less water capacity (I think) than a 280.
It's got the short/fat powder column, 35 degree shoulder, and '06 powder capacity in a short case that allows more magazine room for high BC bullets to be seated outside the case. It was introduced in the Winchester 88 and 100, which aren't exactly Gun Looney rifles, and gave it a bad start IMO. If it had been introduced 25 years later in a bolt gun it might be all the rage with the more mainstream. The wildcatters and target shooters appreciate the cartridge as a jumping off point for other stuff, but the plain old .284Win doesn't draw much attention from the non-looneys when they can buy a 270/280/'06. At least this makes sense as I type it right now, after returning from the office Christmas party..........
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. --Winston Churchill
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,344
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,344 |
Thanks neighbor. I am wondering whey the 284 folks didn't jump on the 7mmWSM with both feet? It seems it is dying a slow death and brass seems almost impossible to locate and even at high prices.
Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
For a few more good reads on the 284 Win, google: Jerry Tierney Charles Ballard Ryan Pierce Marty Lobert Grant Lovelock ---followed by "284 Winchester". All have used it VERY successfully. It may be the most under-rated cartridge out there. You just don't hear much about it, given what it can do. I do not own a 284 Win. Simply because I'm a 7mm-08 slut from way back. I use custom 7-08 for hunting, and have a custom 7mm RM for LR. That said, if I could own only 1 7mm rifle, it would be a 284 Winchester. When ALL things considered, I think it is the best all-around 7mm cartridge, and has been for a long time.....
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,077
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,077 |
If the brass supply issue doesn't bother you, the 284 is a pretty well balanced chambering.
If going that route I would build on a long action though, to capitalize on OAL latitude and maximize available powder space.
A short action would be fine if one mainly intended to stay with bullets below 160 gr or so. With bullets like the 162, 168, 180, and even a 195gr Berger in the works, a long action makes sense to me. Throated for the longer bullets, a long action will let you capitalize on the best BCs available in 7mm, without filling up the case with bullet.
Shane
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,077
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,077 |
I have done very well with the 300 SAUM. Nisika Model G RBLP. Tooley Tracker from DB Supply Obymeyer AMU+ 1-11 twisted. Scope in the pick is a 5-25x56 PMII I swapped out to a 12-42x56 NSX. Seekens rings. Vias Brake. 60.4 Ramshot Hunter under a 210g Berger LRBT Tula mag primer,Nosler case. Cases have been reloaded up to 20 times and still working fine. Figure 2800 FPS. The groups are stunning. dave That's pretty sweet. When I had 26" of barrel on my heavy 30-06 I was getting 2800 fps with moly'd 210 Berger, over 61 gr RL22. Great balance of velocity, BC, and bullet mass. That bullet shot really well for me too. A few examples, In the meantime I've cut my rifle back to 22.5", and am shooting the moly'd 208 Amax over RL17 for 2740 fps. The 208 shoots well too, an example fueled by RL22 here, My rifle liked the 190 gr Sierra very well too, that was the bullet I started out with back in 2000. There are higher BC options nowadays, 155gr Scenar, [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/30-06%20Targets/Img_7864.jpg[/img]110gr VMax, [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/30-06%20Targets/Img_5159-1.jpg[/img]Here's a recent pic of my rifle. Scope is a SWFA 12X. [img]http://img.photobucket.com/alb...90%20ABLR/PC090004_zpsb69e797c.jpg[/img]Shane
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,077
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,077 |
Here's a little video I recently shot while playing with the Nosler 190 gr ABLR in the 30-06, at 1120 yards. MV 2920 fps via RL-17 and 22.5" bbl. Here's the target, a chunk of moss about 15" wide by 12" tall, Three minute video here, http://smg.photobucket.com/user/mon...mail_zpszxmlhzgy.mp4.html?sort=3&o=0
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
Once a long action is on the table, then the "advantages" of a 284 go right out the window. A plain vanilla 280 beats it everyday.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 746
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 746 |
Even on a short action, a 284 Win will get you a minimum of 200 fps more, with considerably less powder and recoil. 200fps more than what? Once a long action is on the table, then the "advantages" of a 284 go right out the window. A plain vanilla 280 beats it everyday. Agreed. I believe Melvin Forbes used to recommend the 284 but has since gone away from it... someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
Once a long action is on the table, then the "advantages" of a 284 go right out the window. A plain vanilla 280 beats it everyday.
Uhhhh, no it doesn't....
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,817 Likes: 14
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 30,817 Likes: 14 |
The 280AI has caught my attention...minimum 9 twist...maybe 8.5..27" tube on a LA...308 boltface..AI formed brass from Nosler...std 280 brass from Norma..or '06 Lapua to neck down...IF I went the 284 Win route..Lapua 6.5x284 brass would be used...very good die selection in either choice..what I want is a non mag LR boomer...pretty much settled on 7mm..already have a LR 6.5x55 18# table gun..
T R U M P W O N !
U L T R A M A G A !
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,102 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,102 Likes: 6 |
Once a long action is on the table, then the "advantages" of a 284 go right out the window. A plain vanilla 280 beats it everyday.
Uhhhh, no it doesn't.... What velocities do you get with 140s in the 6.5-284?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Once a long action is on the table, then the "advantages" of a 284 go right out the window. A plain vanilla 280 beats it everyday.
Uhhhh, no it doesn't.... I have to admit I'm puzzled by this, too...but never owned a 284 so would like to know. I get the part about the ability to seat bullets out; but in a Rem 700 action,which is really H&H length, can't you seat long VLD bullets out to greater length in the 280 as well? I am curious where the extra 200 fps comes from in the 284?
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1 |
06 case and the 284 case have nearly the same case capacity and nearly the same velocity, but if splitting hairs the shorter powder colum will be ever so slightly more accurate. That is why the 284 case is so popular with competitors.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
The 200fps I was talking to Dave.
Long action, the 284 is faster than the 280 for reasons given.
Is it better? For strictly hunting, no. Performance is same whether long or short action.
For LR shooting? Well, I'll let the record(s) speak for themselves. The 284 has been impressive. While the 280 has been a non-factor.....
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
06 case and the 284 case have nearly the same case capacity and nearly the same velocity, but if splitting hairs the shorter powder colum will be ever so slightly more accurate. That is why the 284 case is so popular with competitors.
Yes. It is considered a mo' betta case. Stronger, less stretching, more efficient powder burn, and Lapua brass is available. Some need to understand, this has a lot more to do with it than how much faster it is or isn't than a 280.......
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
2950-ish with 142 SMKs.....
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,102 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,102 Likes: 6 |
I get 3050 and excellent accuracy in my 6.5-06 AI. 24" barrel. No case stretching.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
Let me know when the 6.5-06AI replaces the 6.5-284 in competitive shooting. Or wins anything. Or when Lapua brass becomes available.
The 6.5-284 can easily hit 3050fps. If you want it to.
Again, in a hunting rifle, it really don't matter which you pick....
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,102 Likes: 6 |
Again, in a hunting rifle, it really don't matter which you pick....
I thought you said the 6.5-284 was superior? As far as competition, was that what the OP asked?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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