Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire If I wuz a cop....

Well yes but don't get your nose in a twit seeing as how you got folks like Tom Harkin in your state...you know, people who live in glass houses and all..

Not going to chime in about Zimmerman and just wanted to share my thoughts on LE in general. I was in LE for 12 years, out for 10 and now back in and I can see how the world has changed. The bad guys are different and more importantly societies failure to hold them accountable for their actions is even more disturbing.

Ten years ago if someone ran from you and you duked it out at the end and it was what it was, a nasty fight then ended up with someone in handcuffs, they took their lumps and did not bitch. There was nothing extra given at the end but I am not shy about using reasonable force to get those cuffs on.

A few days ago my partner and I were making a warrant service at a hotel and had a guy come walking out of the room with a gun in his pocket. I told him to turn around and keep his hands up and the fight was on. He was cuffed and still trying to reach around to his front pocket for the gun so I dropped a full power brachial stun on him that ended it. I secured the gun and he came around a few seconds later screaming to everyone the cops were beating a handcuffed man. Your damn right I hit a cuffed suspect and if a witness was standing at the wrong angle they would not see me pull the gun out of his pocket or what started the fight. They would just be all over the news screaming how the cops beat handcuffed people because we are monsters. Turns out he had just shot someone in the hallway about 10 minutes before we got there. All the way to the jail he was demanding medical attention because we "broke his legs". The night before he had been tweaked out on meth and jumped out a second story window for unknown reasons. He also accused us of planting the gun on him, stopping him for no reason, attacking him etc. The average badguy now thinks everything is the cops fault and refuses to take any responsibility for their actions.

And in case someone asks, yes I would have been absolutely justified in shooting him a couple of times during the fight but I didnt. I keep a use of force log as well as a non-use of force log. In the last year I have had 13 incidents where I could have used deadly force per policy and the law but I didnt. Do you think the public will hear about any of those times I did not pull the trigger?

I am also convinced some issues we face everyday are true "no-win" circumstance. Wanna guess what a high collision factor is for the last 5 or 6 fatal accidents I have worked? You would be right if you said cell phones. If I pull someone over for using a handheld device and give a ticket I am a total dick, but you cannot imagine the level of complaints because the police are not writing enough cell phone tickets. Even better is when I am already going to a call and sitting at a light and having a car next to me frantically waving to get my attention that someone else is using a cell phone. Sorry, as much as I would like to pull them over and educate them on how distracted driving creates accidents I need to go handle my call as well as the other calls still holding. I know recently an editorial was published about how cops are lazy and dont do anything all day simply because there was no major case posted in the paper that day. On a four day work week I average one actual lunch break and a couple of stops so I can pee before I explode.

And someone wanted to address dumb laws like registering vehicles, seatbelts etc. Well I can tell you it is a pure pleasure (sarcasm in case someone cannot detect it) to go to an accident where the lack of a seatbelt turned a non or minor injury accident into a major injury. After all we need to keep the trauma centers busy. Also a pretty solid guess that those who dont wear seatbelts tend to rely on the government for medical treatment and will never see a bill that the community as a whole will now have to pay. Please no more complaining about paying for registration since those funds go towards things like actually repairing streets, snowplows, sanding streets etc. I never figured how people somehow feel they are exempt because they dont want to pay for registration.

I have people complain all the time about registration or why they dont have insurance because it is to expensive. I explain that they are correct, cars are expensive and being a car owner goes beyond being able to put gas in the tank. Bikes are much cheaper to operate and dont require gas or insurance but nobody wants to hear that.

I see the media blitz on some topics and want to cringe, I personally refrain from commenting on those issues from the context that I was not there to see and fully experience the events. I was not the one getting punched, trying to develop a super power to see in the dark, or the strength to somehow subdue this guy with minimal injury to self or suspect.

I hear complaints we are over paid but to those not in the business I ask a simple question, what would you charge? I sat down with a reporter recently about salaries and asked him what he would charge and he mentioned a reasonable salary. Then I described the calls from the day before to include holdup alarms, a man with a gun casing a gas station, a transient that took a crap in the middle of a restaurant lobby, the same transient crapping in my car on the way to jail, a warrant service ending in a fence jumping foot pursuit, three domestic disturbances, four kids left in a motel room all day with no food while their parents were out getting drunk, a complaint from a driver that deliberately went the wrong way on a one way street for easier access to a parking spot and was mad I actually wrote him a citation and a lunch break that lasted 4 minutes because other officers were calling emergency traffic for a man with a gun. All of a sudden he did not feel real confident about doing the job for the salary he quoted. Sure there are days when nothing happens, all the bad guys are sleeping in, there are free donuts on every corner and I appreciate it when it happens. Then there are the days when I have to text my wife and let her know about an incident the news is going to cover and that I am in one piece. She has even gotten a sense of humor to ask if I am really in one piece or sitting in the trauma center in mostly one piece.

Sorry for the rant/soapbox moment but I will leave with this quote.

"There is no nice way to arrest a potentially dangerous, combative suspect. The police are our bodyguards; our hired fists, batons and guns. We pay them to do the dirty work of protecting us. The work we'are too afraid, too unskilled or to civilized to do ourselves. We expect them to keep the bad guys out of our businesses, out of our cars, out of our homes and out of our faces. We just dont want to see how it is done."
-Charles H. Webb-

Can't say ANYBODY wants to be arrested, guilty or not. Here's the issue these days, and I suspect I'll be labled a cop apologist, or someone will claim I'm for a "police state", which is a VERY loosely used term these days by cop haters...but anyway...yes, cops make mistakes. They're human, and no amount of training will change that. Some are azzhole, and no amount of training will change that...well you can reduce it, but an azzhole is an azzhole...they work at McDonalds, Walmart, IBM, the State and Federal Gov't and are all up and down the socio-economic ladder and spectrum of race, religions, professions/vocations, etc. Cops are no exception, nor are there an overabundance of azzhole cops. Here' the thing: until we vastly revamp our whole society, to more closely resemble anarchy...we pay cops to do a job. We always have, and we are not unique among societies. I know of no society, or police force that lets the arrestee/suspect decide when it's convenient to be arrested when a cops comes to do his duty. If that's what you want for our society, then by all means, write your congressman. Until then, right or wrong, guilty or not, when the cops shows up to put the cuffs on you, you ARE going to jail, and the only way that changes in the immediate time is if you assault him or kill him, in which case you've probably made your situation a whole lot worse, unless you were wanted for capital murder to begin with...still probably made things worse. You simply don't get to debate with the cop and win. Now I know that some people get all bent the hell outta shape when they are used to being in charge and the police shows up and they are no longer in charge. It hurts their dignity, pride, feelings, and they get angry and sometimes people can't control their anger, and they say and do things they might not otherwise do. Well, we all have to answer for our actions. Hurt a cop, pay a bigger price. If you believe you're innocent, you don't get to talk the cop out of arresting you, and get the right to get pizzed off when he won't "hear you out". Some are nice and patient enough to hear you out THEN arrest you, and some cops need to realize things can go a lot smoother if you just let someone talk a bit and "be heard" but they still are going to take you to jail if that's why they showed up, and they don't have to let you be heard, it's not part of the job when they come to arrest you or give you another lawful order. IF they showed up just to ask questions...your best bet is like Pat said: "you have the right to remain silent" and it's ALWAYS great advice. It may not help you to remain silent, but can, and it can NEVER hurt you. Oh, and "remaining silent" means just that...it does not mean "f**k you cop, I ain't talking, go f**k yourself"...it means silence.

When people start realizing they're not entitled to be heard on the side of the road, or on the street corner when the cops are there...they'll be better off complying with lawful orders of the police until they get police abolished or basic police powers vastly overhauled/weakened in this nation to allow people to not only be heard, but decide their own innocence and force the cops to comply with the findings of the suspect's own internal investigation and finding of "innocent". Be careful what you wish for...

Merry Christmas.

And that's the crux of the whole thing. I believe a higher educated, higher compensated and non union police officers would be what's needed in today's world.

I would like to see it tried in my lifetime but I may f off and die before it happens.

Don't you just hate it when things don't go exactly as planned...

Jury that heard the facts said otherwise.

I think you misunderstood the scenario.

I said that they, ALL of the police (Commissioner on down, hell, throw in federal leo's too) take a planned, scheduled, fully announced week off.

Couldn't get new hires to fill that vacancy (besides there is no vacancy, it's just a week off) fast enough. Especially any with any knowledge of what is happening in the neighborhood, who the resident trouble makers are, etc. Any "JoeBob" that would step up wouldn't have any training.

Fill all those places in a week? You couldn't even get interviews... who'd conduct the interviews?

Individuals can be replaced without disrupting anything. Try to replace an entire industry.

that has been done...

There have been entire departments that required a BS for hire. They didn't fare so well...

You obviously don't spend a lot of time around academia... Talk about arrogance of ineptitude...

OMG...is everyone here today going to make my case for me today?
Did you read what you just said?

It shows that you believe that YOU HAVE THE POWER TO CREATE A POLICE STATE IF YOU GET PISSED OFF AND ALL

That's the problem if even police managers can all walk off and say screw you people, you do what we tell you to do and keep your pucking mouths shut.

You can't allow this, you can't have any local, state or federal police force thinking this is acceptable for criss sakes.

1. A higher educated police department won't think like this.

2. A higher compensated police department won't think like this.

3. A non union police department won't be allowed to believe we are bigger than those we serve and we will shut the place down to prove it.

Who are you? Michael Corleone..."do you know who I am"

Reckon you lost me there. I'm all for Zimmerman.

And I am arrogant and inept? Wow...alright.

1-That picture is as serious as they get. Didn't you see it? That's freaking Heisenberg man...

2-Correct, I got nothing for you. Because I'm gonna stay over here in reality. Your idea is great. But it's just not feasible.

I'd love to work in a place that required their officers to be intelligent and would be willing to pay them accordingly. In fact, I do. I really can't imagine making more money in police work than I do right now.

But there's no way, none, at all, that Podunkville, USA has the resources to do the same.

You keep getting all hoity-toity about this, but repeatedly fail to understand.....

COPS AREN'T GONNA GET PAID ENOUGH TO ACCOMPLISH WHAT YOU WANT

There are few cities that can afford it, and fewer still that have the stomach for it.

I know who the heck it is and it's still lame..and frankly one Heisenberg picture doesn't top one picture of a closeted gay guy anyway.

HarryM's argument essentially consists of stomping his feet and shouting, "If everything were magically exactly the way I want it, they'd be better!.....Reality be danged."

Everytime I'm about to change my avatar, some creeper decides to get infatuated with it.

Sorry Blue, we have a difference of opinion I guess. Until it's tried it can't be proven either way.

And don't take this the wrong way. I have had a long and good career. I did this by replacing those around me who always told me what they can't do with those that told me what they could do.

Do tell..

Hate to think what you might deserve for a post like that. Very childish.

Some astounding ignorance on display here. I feel like I need to stand and applaud! Wow!

Let's break this down...



I guess education hasn't taught you that typing in all caps doesn't make your case stronger. Rather, it makes you look more desperate. A sure sign of a failed premise.

Anyways, my scenario does nothing of the sort. It only demonstrates the depravity of man.

I've been to lots of places around the world with no organized law enforcement. Talk about lost liberty, you should check them out...



But this is perfectly fine with any other job, right?



You mean, you do what your elected officials, representing you, have told us to tell you to do.



1. Wrong
2. Wrong
3. Public Unions are the devil.

Education and higher paychecks don't remove the depravity of man. Consider our Government. It's full of the highest educated, richly compensated people in the World. A lot of good that does...

Geeezzz Man...the wheels are coming off your wagon.