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And to be very clear, no more entering police academy with a GED or High School Diploma. 4 year College degree.
Sure once you are in LE there will always be on going training, as there is in my profession, but a BA to get in in the first place.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
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You can't judge the actions of any LEO unless it is happening to you. You should wait till the results of the investigation to pass judgement. Just look at all the idiots who believed the lies about George Zimmerman. You shouldn't join their stupidity. The 'lies" about Zimmerman actually weren't lies at all. He murdered that kid. Jury that heard the facts said otherwise. Well, the OJ jury said he didn't do it either. And juries only vote as to the evidence warranted a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt. No, the OJ jury found him "not guilty" based on the lack of evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt. Far different from a finding of "he didn't do it". To assert Zimmerman murdered the kid is to draw a conclusion based in emotion, not evidence, which is the only connection Zimmerman has to this thread in the first place.
War Damn Eagle!
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Harry. How many hours of job specific training should someone have to be a cop?
How many hours of class and practical time of job specific instruction is in a 4 year degree? Well, a BA is 4 years taking summers off. The course should include mental health and psychology courses as it seems more and more police are getting involved in crimes were the defendants are ill. Managerial skills and inter personal skills as well as I believe it's time for police to be considered white collar professionals and not blue collars beat cops. No Union And the money is there. This country wastes billions on stupid stuff and this can be properly funded. I hope I am not out of line in saying there has been a drastic change in how police are viewed in communities and not just minority ones. I don't think this can be denied. I am not saying this fixes everything. I am saying there is a problem and it should be addressed. I know that police unions say there is no problem. I know the majority of the public says there is a problem. The truth is always somewhere in the middle. I see things getting worse, and not just in minority areas. I will honestly say to you I think it's a shame as the police are very important to every community. Some will never like the police, I get that. But I see an organization that needs a do over and some spiffing up and believe well educated and well trained employees are the way to go. ABTW, I should have mentioned earlier that the 4 year degree should also include what's learned in police academy so that the degree allows one to enter law enforcement upon their graduation. Answer my question. The question was not what do you think the courses should be. But how many years it takes for a BA degree Did I not say 4 years? A 4 year degree is not job specific. I have a 4 year in Cj and it's 3/5 useless. We aren't healthcare providers. Everytjing we do when dealing with mental health issues is governed by statute. Once again how many hours of job specific training should be required?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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OP
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To the cop haters and admirers, back up a few pages, take your time and read Varmitsinc's post. He tells it like it is and I am glad to say that he is a good friend of mine. We need more like him. I read it. It was a well written post describing the typical encounters of the typical cop on any given day. Ask him. And did you notice that he put up that post with no amount of attempting to belittle anybody? He didn't brag on himself, either. Much different from most of the regular posters here.
The Mayans had it right. If you�re going to predict the future, it�s best to aim far beyond your life expectancy, lest you wind up red-faced in a bunker overstocked with Spam and ammo.
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"A 4 year degree is not job specific. I have a 4 year in Cj and it's 3/5 useless. We aren't healthcare providers. Everytjing we do when dealing with mental health issues is governed by statute. Once again how many hours of job specific training should be required? [/quote]" Your premise of what is useless is your opinion but you are entitled to it. A BA degree has an average mean of 120 to 124 credits needed for graduation. That's a very standard requirement. There are many courses and certainly courses could evolve based of needs and issues as they are today. http://education-portal.com/articles/Bachelor_of_Science_BS_Law_Enforcement_Degree_Overview.htmlWhat more your are looking for I don't know unless you wish to engage in semantics and brow beating, and I don't fall for red herrings either.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
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What if you can't get your quota of minorities and
females? You lower the standards, of course.
--- CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE --- A Magic Time To Be An Illegal In America---
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HARRY M - "The 'lies" about Zimmerman actually weren't lies at all. He murdered that kid." No, he did not. Harry M, did you watch the trial of George Zimmerman on teeeveee? I did, or at least 99% of it. There was no proof whatsoever that Zimmerman shot Martin in other than a self defense necessity. L.W.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." (William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830s.)
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"A 4 year degree is not job specific. I have a 4 year in Cj and it's 3/5 useless.
We aren't healthcare providers. Everytjing we do when dealing with mental health issues is governed by statute.
Once again how many hours of job specific training should be required? " Your premise of what is useless is your opinion but you are entitled to it. A BA degree has an average mean of 120 to 124 credits needed for graduation. That's a very standard requirement. There are many courses and certainly courses could evolve based of needs and issues as they are today. http://education-portal.com/articles/Bachelor_of_Science_BS_Law_Enforcement_Degree_Overview.htmlWhat more your are looking for I don't know unless you wish to engage in semantics and brow beating, and I don't fall for red herrings either. [/quote] I had most of those courses in college and again in the academy. And I guarantee you the time spent on each subject in the academy was in far greater depth than what we delved into them in College. The simple fact is. A four year degree is useless to become a cop. I'm all for education and have taken hundreds of hours of additional courses ranging from arson and narcotics to firearms and use of forces training. By and far the most important things i've learned about doing this job initially came from my OJT period as a rookie. You mention interpersonal skills. No class can teach that, you either have em or you don't. You say that "the money is there". Well once again, you're wrong. Or agency is currently dealing with this very issue. The outlying municpalities that we provide police coverage for want more coverage, they DO NOT, however want to pay more tax money to get that coverage.
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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No, the OJ jury found him "not guilty" based on the lack of evidence to convict beyond a reasonable doubt. Far different from a finding of "he didn't do it".
To assert Zimmerman murdered the kid is to draw a conclusion based in emotion, not evidence, which is the only connection Zimmerman has to this thread in the first place. It isn't murder or any other crime if an officer does it. That also extends to family of police(as was the case with the son of a Sanford Officer forced to beat up a homeless guy a year or so before) or with those trying to get on with the PD which was the case with Zimmerman.
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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Again, I have no idea what happens in Massachusetts, but here's the trend in Utah. No one wants to pay higher taxes, the Legislature changed the retirement from 50% at 20 years to 35% at 25 years, starting pay is a joke ($16.21 with a BS or 4 years experience), you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, and they're wondering why people aren't beating down the doors? Your dream of requiring more and paying more is just that, a dream. The newest catch phrase is, do more with less with most agencies loosing ground in pay and benefits. The stuff Seafire talks about in Josephine County Oregon is easily researched and is the gospel truth. Some counties have closed their jails and in some places if you call 911 after hours it goes to voicemail and you might get a call back the next day. http://m.ksl.com/index/story/sid/30661934?mobile_direct=y
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? [/quote]"
Your premise of what is useless is your opinion but you are entitled to it.
A BA degree has an average mean of 120 to 124 credits needed for graduation.
That's a very standard requirement.
[/quote]
My opinion is based on several years of actual Police experience.
Out of those 120-124 credits, how many do you think are core classes directly dealing with job scope of a cop?
How many are foo foo classes
Here's a hint. I've never used math above Highschool Algebra on the job
I've never used The Zooology class, or Geology class I took
I've never used anything from English Lit.
I'll grant that Psychology classes can be helpful, especially to people already working in specialized investigation units and such. But the average patrol cop, not so much
The skills learned in Frisbee class haven't really been required, not has the skills I learned in intro to sport hunting
If you would, please tell us about your experience as a LEO?, and instructor
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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I had most of those courses in college and again in the academy. And I guarantee you the time spent on each subject in the academy was in far greater depth than what we delved into them in College.
The simple fact is. A four year degree is useless to become a cop.
I'm all for education and have taken hundreds of hours of additional courses ranging from arson and narcotics to firearms and use of forces training.
By and far the most important things i've learned about doing this job initially came from my OJT period as a rookie.
You mention interpersonal skills. No class can teach that, you either have em or you don't.
You say that "the money is there". Well once again, you're wrong. Or agency is currently dealing with this very issue. The outlying municpalities that we provide police coverage for want more coverage, they DO NOT, however want to pay more tax money to get that coverage.
Weapons, authority, immunity, and practically every officer in the nation similarly equipped and backing you no matter what you do are a more than adequate substitute for personal skills.
"My message to my troops is if you see anybody carrying a gun on the streets of Milwaukee, we'll put them on the ground, take the gun away and then decide whether you have a right to carry it." - Milwaukee Police Chief Ed Flynn
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Again, I have no idea what happens in Massachusetts, but here's the trend in Utah. No one wants to pay higher taxes, the Legislature changed the retirement from 50% at 20 years to 35% at 25 years, starting pay is a joke ($16.21 with a BS or 4 years experience), you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, and they're wondering why people aren't beating down the doors? Your dream of requiring more and paying more is just that, a dream. The newest catch phrase is, do more with less with most agencies loosing ground in pay and benefits. The stuff Seafire talks about in Josephine County Oregon is easily researched and is the gospel truth. Some counties have closed their jails and in some places if you call 911 after hours it goes to voicemail and you might get a call back the next day. http://m.ksl.com/index/story/sid/30661934?mobile_direct=y The average pay for police officers in MA is ~81K
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
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And if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle.
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They just want to help people, catch bad guys or in the case of the narcissists...have power. We know the public is largely supportive of us and that the dickheads who don't are in the super minority. But lurking on the roads and writing traffic tickets to commuters isn't helping people or catching bad guys. It's simply generating revenue for the government. Expired plates, no seat belt, 10 mph over the speed limit, etc.. If cops came across to working people/taxpayers as simply wanting to help people and catch bad guys, I think a lot of the public perception of cops from those folks in particular would be way more positive than it is. And do you have any idea just how many "big" cases come from simple traffic stops? I've recovered stolen firearms, made countless narcotics and DUI arrests, not to mention warrant arrests. Hell we picked up a guy wanted for murder in Ca on a traffic stop Then if you stop somebody on a simple traffic stop, and it's not a 'big' case...and you don't recover stolen firearms, and you don't make a narcotic or DUI arrest, and you don't pick up a guy wanted for murder...then why don't ya' just let em' go without writing them a ticket...? Maybe it has something to do with them breaking the law? 
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I had most of those courses in college and again in the academy. And I guarantee you the time spent on each subject in the academy was in far greater depth than what we delved into them in College.
The simple fact is. A four year degree is useless to become a cop.
I'm all for education and have taken hundreds of hours of additional courses ranging from arson and narcotics to firearms and use of forces training.
By and far the most important things i've learned about doing this job initially came from my OJT period as a rookie.
You mention interpersonal skills. No class can teach that, you either have em or you don't.
You say that "the money is there". Well once again, you're wrong. Or agency is currently dealing with this very issue. The outlying municpalities that we provide police coverage for want more coverage, they DO NOT, however want to pay more tax money to get that coverage.
Weapons, authority, immunity, and practically every officer in the nation similarly equipped and backing you no matter what you do are a more than adequate substitute for personal skills. How was your trip to see Santa? Did he bounce you on his lap?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Again, I have no idea what happens in Massachusetts, but here's the trend in Utah. No one wants to pay higher taxes, the Legislature changed the retirement from 50% at 20 years to 35% at 25 years, starting pay is a joke ($16.21 with a BS or 4 years experience), you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, and they're wondering why people aren't beating down the doors? Your dream of requiring more and paying more is just that, a dream. The newest catch phrase is, do more with less with most agencies loosing ground in pay and benefits. The stuff Seafire talks about in Josephine County Oregon is easily researched and is the gospel truth. Some counties have closed their jails and in some places if you call 911 after hours it goes to voicemail and you might get a call back the next day. http://m.ksl.com/index/story/sid/30661934?mobile_direct=y The average pay for police officers in MA is ~81K Once again, you're wrong. A quick search turned up the average mean salary for patrol officers and Deputies in Ma. As $55,580
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,945
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Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
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Joined: Jun 2012
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That doesn't change that you were wrong you stated that the average pay for police officers in Ma was 81K a year. That statement suggests the average for All police officers. Not from one Agency
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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