Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles My Montana Project and results: A sick rifle

Which apparently may involve tuition costs of a gunsmith school.

All pissing, whining, and dick comparing aside, I'd dig an aoudad...

I'll take that swap, whatcha got?

LOL you know sometimes I even sit at a feeder with my NULA's. But then again sometimes I'm not hunting over a feeder.

If your accuracy changes with torque changes, it's a sign of poor bedding.



You've got this backwards. You should definitely bed the stock before you do anything else. A new barrel should be a last resort after you've eliminated everything else.

This thread is just too funny. I'm guessing the squares are 1". Correct me if I'm wrong.



9 of ten shots in approx. 1 1/4" 8 in approx 1".



9 of ten in approx. 1 3/4"

From a rifle the many find hard to shoot accurately because of weight and or shooting form. Not bad. With factory loads instead of loads tuned to the rifle, freaking awesome. I'm betting just about none of you Kimber bashers have ever witnessed the man shooting to know if he can do better.

In addition the rifle is begging to be bedded and all he wants to hear is "It needs a new barrel" or he would try some of the tricks posted that have proven effective on other Kimbers.

Don't get me wrong, I don't know anything about the o.p., I don't own a Kimber, I have never even shot a Kimber rifle. Why ask questions when you don't want to hear the answers.

My flame suit is on and zipped.

Dave.

Thanks for the input Dave. To answer a few of your points:

1) I went to factory ammo for this experiment bc my hand loads weren't doing much better. Wanted to remove my loading as a variable. I've tried Matchkings, Gamekings, BTips, VLD, and AMax.

2) Have tried the mag box and front base screw tricks, but not the action screw. This is next on the list.

I will be getting the gun bedded. I hsvent done one myself, rather not start on the Montana. It just shot so poorly that I jumped to the barrel idea. Cart before the horse, lesson learned.

Thanks for viewing the groups glass half full.

From the mouths of ignorant, whoops, ill-informed babes who only get their knowledge from an old Field and Stream magazines which make them an expert on just abut nothing.

You obviously need to get out more and experience something at least five miles from your front door. Here's a part of what I see maybe 10 miles from some land I own in far west Texas.

https://www.google.com/search?q=dav...mp;ved=0CDUQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=946

Come on down and I'll get you lost in about 10 minutes so you can show us your highly refined woodsman's skills. You better bring a canteen as you might get thirsty looking for a natural spring on your own if you have no idea where or how to look.

I bet you're not a Kimber person either, are ya'?

Nothing! I had 2 montanas. Now they ar3 someone else's problems!

I have three Montana's and four other wood stocked Kimbers. None of them have given me a bit of problem in terms of accuracy, or any other thing for that matter.

One thing to consider is the fact that a lot of people don't understand how to shoot a light weight rifle from a bench. And then they blame the poor accuracy on the rifle. It's happened numerous times before and it will happen again.

"One thing to consider is the fact that a lot of people don't understand how to shoot a light weight rifle from a bench. And then they blame the poor accuracy on the rifle. It's happened numerous times before and it will happen again."

Now there are some words of wisdom. If it was being shot off the rigging in the OPs pics,he was starting with 2 strikes against him from the get go.

Anyone who wants to trade a Montana for a NIB Tikka 260, please PM me. Thanks.

If you look at Fed Prem group 1,you have 3, 3/4" groups within the overall mess. Shots 2,3,4. Shots 5,6+7 are almost identical to them. And shots 8,9 + 10 are also 3/4" and not too bad for zero. If you had shot either of those by themselves,especially the last 3 shots,you would feel pretty good about things. Possibly from a good rest you could print 3/4" 3 shot groups,with factory fodder no less. That particular target sure looks to me like you were inconsistently bedding the rifle at the bench.

It's the same way I hold my 84L 270 and it comes together nicely on paper.

Less about how you hold, more about controlling muzzle jump, trigger pull. IMO.

OutdoorAg,

Maybe I just missed it, but did you ever figure out if the front action screw is bottoming out in the action? If it is, then you really need to shorten the screw. It is easy to do, and likely won't void your warranty. I would start by measuring the screw with a caliper, then shorten 20-30 thousandths at a time until you are sure it is not bottoming out. The method used to shorten the screw is not important, as long as you end up with it not bottoming out.

It is also critical that the action screws are not hitting hard against the sides of the hole (pillar?). Make sure the recoil lug is against the mortise in the stock and the screws aren't touching the sides. If you have to open up the holes a bit, I would recommend using a reamer rather than a drill bit. Trying to remove a small amount with a drill bit will result in the bit catching and biting into the hole and screwing it up, if the drill bit doesn't break. A reamer is much smoother and will self-align with the hole more readily than a drill bit. Chances are you won't have to remove a lot from the sides of the hole to get proper clearance. Maybe even a few careful strokes with a samll, fine rattail file would be enough.

I'm with you on holding off bedding the rifle. I would send a new rifle back to the manufacturer before bedding. I too feel like a $1200 rifle should not have to be "fixed", but the reality is they are still a mass-produced rifle, susceptible to all the quality control issues associated with any mass-produced product. Once you are sure the screws are not touching where they shouldn't, if it still does not shoot well, send it back. That's my $.02.

Good luck to you, sir.

Can you explain a little more? Not fully understanding where I want the lug contacting/not contacting.

Not sure where the break in understanding lies, so I'll back way up. First you need to understand what the recoil lug and mortice are (I warned you I was backing way up).

The recoil lug is the part of the action, or receiver, that transmits recoil forces from the steel parts of the rifle to the stock. On Kimber rifles, the recoil lug is an integral part of the receiver. It is a block of steel directly underneath the front of the receiver that extends down into a rectangular "hole" in the stock. That rectangular hole is the "mortise" I referred to previously. On the Kimber Montana, it is molded into the stock when the stock is made. You can see it plainly when the barreled action is removed from the stock.

When the rifle is assembled, it is critical that the barreled action is 'slid' rearward in the stock so that the rear surface of the recoil lug is seated firmly against the rearward surface in the mortise. This firm contact prevents the barreled action from moving as recoil energy is transmitted from the barreled action to the stock. If there is a gap between the recoil lug and the rearward surface of the mortise, then the action can move in response to recoil energy and accuracy suffers. When I reassemble a rifle after repair or detailed cleaning, I always "thump" the rifle against the floor butt down before tightening the action screws to make sure the recoil lug is seated firmly against the rearward surface of the mortise.

About the screws touching their holes: Kimber rifles are built with steel tubes, or "pillars", glued securely in the holes where the action screws reside. Also, the holes in these pillars are not very much larger than the screws themselves. So, if the holes in these pillars do not precisely align with the threaded holes in the receiver, then tightening the action screws can apply sideways pressure on the stock and actually pull the recoil lug out of contact with the mortise. I have seen it on more than one rifle. That is why the guys here on the campfire are recommending that you "drill-out" the holes in the pillars - to make the holes bigger so the screws don't touch the sides of the hole when everything is tightened. Most of the guys here are quite knowlegeable about such drawbacks in mass-produced rifles and are able (and willing) to fix these issues. A lot of guys that are not "rifle loonies" don't understand such things, and, franlky, should not attempt to fix them if they do. It sucks to screw-up a new $1200 rifle while trying to fix it. Don't ask me how I know that. I do most of my own work, but I have years of experience working in a machine shop doing precise work, as do a lot of the other loonies here at the fire.

There is no shame in not being confident enough to attempt such fixes yourself. It is touchy, precise work, and only people that have experience and apptitude should attempt it. If you are not comfortable working on your rifle, definitely send it back to Kimber. But even that is no guarantee. People have varying abilities, even people that work for gun manufacturers.

Does any of this make sense to you?

Clear as day. Great write up and I'm sure others appreciate the shared info.

This gives me some things to check, and a few items to ask a gunsmith about.

Kimber rifles are built on beautiful concepts. In design they are just about everything anyone could ask for in a lightweight hunting rifle: CRF, great trigger, fast lock time, floated barrel, pretty walnut (or rigid fiberglass), and just plain good looking. If Kimber could just find and implement the answers to making rifles that are consistently accurate enough to please discriminating gun buyers, discriminating gun buyers would buy more Kimbers. But even with their issues, I don't think Kimber has any problem selling their rifles now.