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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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wouldn't the velocity required for bullet "performance at range" be the important question? Ie; brand X bullet requires X amount of velocity to "open"? Don't think critters care how fat the bullet is that ruins their day or the caliber for that matter. Go ahead beat me up. Yes that will have bearing as well as the diameter and mass. At close range velocity is high as is the hydraulic pressure. The higher the velocity the higher the hydraulic pressure which aids in wound channel size. At long range the velocity is much lower as is the hydraulic pressure, diameter of projectile aids in wound channel size as does the added mass of the larger heavier projectile.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Dec 2007
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wouldn't the velocity required for bullet "performance at range" be the important question? Ie; brand X bullet requires X amount of velocity to "open"? Don't think critters care how fat the bullet is that ruins their day or the caliber for that matter. Go ahead beat me up. Yes that will have bearing as well as the diameter and mass. At close range velocity is high as is the hydraulic pressure. The higher the velocity the higher the hydraulic pressure which aids in wound channel size. At long range the velocity is much lower as is the hydraulic pressure, diameter of projectile aids in wound channel size as does the added mass of the larger heavier projectile. Agreed. Big fast bullets = good. But I have seen some amazing results from a 6.5 VLD being used farther out than I would have thought acceptable.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
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wouldn't the velocity required for bullet "performance at range" be the important question? Ie; brand X bullet requires X amount of velocity to "open"? Don't think critters care how fat the bullet is that ruins their day or the caliber for that matter. Go ahead beat me up. Yes that will have bearing as well as the diameter and mass. At close range velocity is high as is the hydraulic pressure. The higher the velocity the higher the hydraulic pressure which aids in wound channel size. At long range the velocity is much lower as is the hydraulic pressure, diameter of projectile aids in wound channel size as does the added mass of the larger heavier projectile. Agreed. Big fast bullets = good. But I have seen some amazing results from a 6.5 VLD being used farther out than I would have thought acceptable. Never said they would not work,the question was "best for taking game at long range". To arrive at best hairs must be split.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,918
Campfire Regular
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wouldn't the velocity required for bullet "performance at range" be the important question? Ie; brand X bullet requires X amount of velocity to "open"? Don't think critters care how fat the bullet is that ruins their day or the caliber for that matter. Go ahead beat me up. Yes that will have bearing as well as the diameter and mass. At close range velocity is high as is the hydraulic pressure. The higher the velocity the higher the hydraulic pressure which aids in wound channel size. At long range the velocity is much lower as is the hydraulic pressure, diameter of projectile aids in wound channel size as does the added mass of the larger heavier projectile. Agreed. Big fast bullets = good. But I have seen some amazing results from a 6.5 VLD being used farther out than I would have thought acceptable. Never said they would not work,the question was "best for taking game at long range". To arrive at best hairs must be split. ten4
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To arrive at best hairs must be split. That statement is so good I wish I thought of it. I have four or five pages of original thoughts and observations. That one should be there. Maybe in a year or two I might think it's an original thought. I hope not. 
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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The 3261fps is using Woodleigh PPSN with a BC of 0.509 pushed by 73gr of H560 and is the 3 shot average. It is the bullet used in Europe for Moose. It is a max load as it shows signs of pressure. My 264 has a Shilen 30 inch barrel with 1 in 8 twist, 6 grove and a taper from 1 1/4inch to 3/4 inch at the muzzle with a 11 degree crown.
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The heading of this thread leaves it open to any cartridge or bullet. What cartridge/bullet/caliber 06 and below is king
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The heading of this thread leaves it open to any cartridge or bullet. What cartridge/bullet/caliber 06 and below is king
Don,t forget this sentence in the opening post
For 30-06 based cartridges and below what is the king of the hill for actuall killing critters at the longest distance?
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Tracker
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The 3261fps is using Woodleigh PPSN with a BC of 0.509 pushed by 73gr of H560 and is the 3 shot average. It is the bullet used in Europe for Moose. It is a max load as it shows signs of pressure. My 264 has a Shilen 30 inch barrel with 1 in 8 twist, 6 grove and a taper from 1 1/4inch to 3/4 inch at the muzzle with a 11 degree crown. Are you and CLarkM buddies?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Using 2700fps 30-06 for the 208 a max at 800yards you have 1042 ft lbs and my 264 using 3261fps the 160gr ppsn has 1264 ft lbs. Your calcs for the 208 seem a little low. I'm shooting the 208 Amax at 2740 fps, at 4300' asl. Using Litz BC (G7 .324), my 800 yard ballistics are 1862 fps, and 1611 ft-lbs. If I set MV at 2700 fps, and elevation to sea level, I'm still getting a calculated 1704 fps, 1342 ft-lbs at 800 yards. And, how many people can run 160s at almost 3300fps from a standard .264 WM? That's an outlandish number, to me.... Tanner You mean, notwithstanding the fact that this whole thread excludes the 264 WM? You don't even need to read the OP, it's in the title..... But you're right, that was a good one......
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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wouldn't the velocity required for bullet "performance at range" be the important question? Ie; brand X bullet requires X amount of velocity to "open"? Don't think critters care how fat the bullet is that ruins their day or the caliber for that matter. Go ahead beat me up. Yes that will have bearing as well as the diameter and mass. At close range velocity is high as is the hydraulic pressure. The higher the velocity the higher the hydraulic pressure which aids in wound channel size. At long range the velocity is much lower as is the hydraulic pressure, diameter of projectile aids in wound channel size as does the added mass of the larger heavier projectile. Not an engineer here, please dumb it down a little; kinetic energy equation would be speed + mass?? So when the powder burns it moves the mass at speed. Energy is invested into speed and movement of the mass So you are saying that the speed aspect is not as lethal or that the speed aspect evaporates in ineffectiveness to some extent, (in the context of terminal ballistics)? I am not sure I am wording my questions correctly.
Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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Speed is a primary factor in calculation of kinetic energy. Lots of people smarter than me have said that the effects of velocity are exaggerated in the formula in fact. Having said that, most people don't give a lot of credence to KE anyway, and focus on bullet placement and construction.
Last edited by smokepole; 12/27/14.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,982 Likes: 6 |
wouldn't the velocity required for bullet "performance at range" be the important question? Ie; brand X bullet requires X amount of velocity to "open"? Don't think critters care how fat the bullet is that ruins their day or the caliber for that matter. Go ahead beat me up. Yes that will have bearing as well as the diameter and mass. At close range velocity is high as is the hydraulic pressure. The higher the velocity the higher the hydraulic pressure which aids in wound channel size. At long range the velocity is much lower as is the hydraulic pressure, diameter of projectile aids in wound channel size as does the added mass of the larger heavier projectile. Not an engineer here, please dumb it down a little; kinetic energy equation would be speed + mass?? So when the powder burns it moves the mass at speed. Energy is invested into speed and movement of the mass So you are saying that the speed aspect is not as lethal or that the speed aspect evaporates in ineffectiveness to some extent, (in the context of terminal ballistics)? I am not sure I am wording my questions correctly. Factors that make up the wound channel are. 1-frontal area of projectile for direct amount of crushed tissue. 2-The amount of momentum transfered. 3-The amount of hydraulic pressure created which a direct result of velocity. 4- the amount of direct applied pressure. The farther the target the lower the velocity as well as hydraulic pressure, therefor it plays a smaller role as distance increases.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,093 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
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The 3261fps is using Woodleigh PPSN with a BC of 0.509 pushed by 73gr of H560 and is the 3 shot average. It is the bullet used in Europe for Moose. It is a max load as it shows signs of pressure. My 264 has a Shilen 30 inch barrel with 1 in 8 twist, 6 grove and a taper from 1 1/4inch to 3/4 inch at the muzzle with a 11 degree crown. 30" barrel. I can see where a 264WinMag could make use of that. FWIW, at 26", my 30-06 had no trouble making 2800 fps with the 208 Amax. I imagine 30" would put velocity around 2875 fps or so. I prefer to compare different rifle rounds at equal length barrels, just to keeps things objective. My 30-06's are 20" and 22.5". They start the 208s at 2700 and 2740 fps, respectively.
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OP
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MM
I keep forgetting to ask. What is the twist rate on your tactical 30-06's??
Who was the gunsmith that built them for you?
Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.
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Campfire Ranger
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RW, I've only got two 30-06s. One is a regular Rem700 sporter in a McMillan BDL pattern stock, with the factory 1/10 twist barrel cut to 20" ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/700s/DSCF0045_zps3c23c12a.jpg) The other is a custom Rem 700. It's got a 1/10 twist barrel also. Douglas #7 contour, stainless. Mcmillan A2 stock. Badger Ordnance brake, floorplate, bolt knob, rail, rings, and recoil lug. This one was built back in 2000 by Iron Brigade Armory in Jacksonville, NC. ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/montanamarine/700s/IMG_1079.jpg)
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Thanks!
Hey! They put the bolt-handle on the wrong side! LOL
Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven.
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