Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Question For PA Deer Hunters???

My kids love to spotlight. Just be aware that spotlighting is a pa thing. When you say spotlighting deer many jump straight to poaching!! Most states it is is illegal. I have to disagree on the trespass laws. The fine for simple tresspass is less than $100. If one considers what it costs to lease or own property, along with the fact that they usually don't get caught or prosecuted, the whole state is "yours" for the risk of $100 every once in a while. I have had people tell me that. The law has been changed so that if I tell someone to leave and they come back I can have them prosecuted, without signs, thats a start. Check the laws in other states. Many dont have to put up signs, others will confiscate guns, cars for repeat offenders. A man should be allowed a mistake but a landowner should be allowed to own his land. I too dont like posting, but as more and more land is lost it puts more pressure on those who leave their land open. No one likes to hunt Game Lands they all want private. Game lands have always been mountain ground with less food and deer, plus harder to hunt. As our deer get wiped out, the more remote game lands probably have more deer than ag areas.

I used to live in Lehigh County, right on the border of Bucks County. I worked nights and hunted during the day. There is no way there is less deer in the farm areas of PA than in the remotest SGLs. I took the longbow for a walk last week to check out new areas. Yes there are some deer in small pockets. I shot a doe this year and it was a buck. I saw a deer the one day it rained all day and am pretty sure it was a small buck so I let it walk. I got out 5x this year and have not seen a doe in the woods yet. Some areas I see tracks, but they are really pretty big and the droppings are huge too. I suspect it is bucks leaving the tracks. I talk to other guys up here(Even ones that got a buck) and they are seeing no doe, unless they are hunting on posted property. It is not unusual to not get a look at a buck, but not see a doe? I was talking to a Game Warden in the area I was walking around and he pretty much has had the same experience.

Believe the issue here is that it's hard for those who hunt in areas that still hold a decent amount of deer to imagine what it's like to hunt on public land where the deer herd has been wiped out. DaleK's suggestions for motivating young hunters are valid but, moot when there are very small numbers of deer in the woods. When one can walk for a few hours in a new snow and not cut a single track (ok, maybe one or two) it's not difficult to see how shooting a deer may seem hopeless. Just MHO based on observations over the last 20 years.

We are not talking about most States, we are talking about Pa. If some want to guess that spotlighting in Pa is poaching, then they are guessing wrong. Don't take a firearm and you are breaking no laws in Pa.

Re trespassing, again when in other States check and abide by their laws. When in Pa ours apply.

If you catch someone let the GC handle it. Same thing if you catch them again. Eventually $100 for x number of times becomes a deterrent. Admittedly it take some effort. Depends on how important it is to you, but eventually it will bear fruit.

There are some GL relatively close to Pittsburgh that have excellent planted cover for Pheasants and are huge. For example no 39 in Butler. It has more than a little Deer sign. Not sure I would want to hit it on the first day or Saturday, but even then it is big enough to get away from the crowds. There are also two or three close to Kittanning that show promise.

Farmers up that way are also starting to complain about too many Deer. Do your homework and finding a reasonable place to hunt shouldn't be all that hard. Again, some effort is required.

Own 56 acres myself which was my Grandparents old farm and is surrounded by farms and wood just S of New Bethlehem. I haven't posted it for over 30 years. That will probably change in the near future. I let the neighbors hunt mine and if they reciprocate it will be a good sized piece. Hate to do it, but may be pushed into doing so.

Have a friend who just took another nice Buck-one of many-during archery up around the ANF. He puts in the time. Like almost the entire archery season if that is what it takes. Again some effort and in his case dedication is required.

I can verify that Cecil/ McDonald area is flush with deer and more turkey than you can count

Too many want to hunt where they want to hunt and don't want to be flexible. If the Deer are not there, or you can't get on where they are, then you best find a place where you can do both.

There are huge Bucks in some of the GL if you are willing to spend the time and have the determination to find them. A little luck will help also. There are huge Bucks in some of the suburban areas if you are willing to spend the time along with working on permission. Presently in Pa the hunt has been put back in hunting.

Not all that far from me and you are spot on. Access is a problem, but not impossible if you can sell yourself. Most don't try all that hard.

battue, I believe you have hit the nail directly on the head! I hunted PA from age 12 to age 37 and I was never more than 1/4 mile from a road or house. It was virtually impossible to get lost because you were surrounded by roads and houses. I now live in CO and you really have to work to get game. It is nothing for me to hike 5-6 miles in a day in search of deer and elk. There is no sitting in a heated box/blind and waiting for the deer to saunter by. You are up and hiking to the top of the mountain to glass and then hopefully plan a stalk. I have on more than one occasion dragged a deer more than a 1/2 mile back to my vehicle, believe me snow is your friend. Elk are another story entirely, quartering and then packing out is a whole other adventure. If you want to be successful you have to put in the time and be willing to go where there is open land and get off the road. If I was back in PA the ANF or the Adirondack mountains in NY would be very appealing to me. Big forest not so many people. The Benoits of Vermont are willing get off the beaten path to work for their deer and look at their successes. Sounds like the "good old days " are over so adapt! Good luck!

Lot of places in Pa that you can get away from the roads once you head a little North. Two years ago I dragged one from 8am to around 1pm. Took my time about it and was within a half mile of a road. Problem was I couldn't get there from there.

This year probably walked around 5 miles every day with the exception of a couple. Land was a combination of big woods broken up by small farms. There are some river hillsides in Pa that will test the young and strong. Getting one out would involve cutting them up or a small boat. Never see it posted for the most part.

Re: access on farm land. Make the offer to pay for 50 acres of corn seed and I'm betting you will find a yes you can hunt fairly quickly. Hunting never was completely free.

Game Commission will not handle trespass. Best way to handle this is the District Magistrate. The one local sees the problem so often she is eager to help. One needs to step outside their box to understand these problems. I have not said one thing about over population. There are areas with a real problem with deer. That was never a big problem here.
some farmers cried most did nothing and were fine. Some shot over a hundred deer many years. They obviously needed to do that. The GC did do a good thing with the red/green tag programs, although they did hurt our hunting. That was a good way to help the farmer without him having put in the work/time. It also removed the deer from the spot where they where a problem and allowed better use of the meat.

A friend of a friend kind of thing. But the guy lives in your area. He has been kicking butt with a bow for several years. He hunts an overgrown farm that is isolated by homes and has taken some very nice bucks.

What public land do you hunt in Lackawanna and luzerne?

Enforcement

State and any local police have jurisdiction to enforce criminal trespass laws and file charges with the local magisterial district judge. Landowners typically worry most about trespassers during hunting season when many hunters enter the woods in search of deer, bear and other game. Pennsylvania Game Commission officers do not have the authority to enforce trespassing laws, but will assist police in investigating allegations. The Game Commission suggests landowners who witness trespassing to get any hunting license or license plate numbers and contact police.



Read more : http://www.ehow.com/list_7196069_laws-trespassing-signs-pennsylvania.html


My error, you are correct.

Bad info, battue. PA has minimal/vague guidelines on posting private property. Despite anecdotal evidence widely shared, there are no requirements for signed posters, how many need to be up, spacing, or anything else.

If you've put up any kind of No Trespassing or Posted signs, your property has been clearly posted to warn others to stay off of it. No requirements for them being signed, either.

So if you wish to prosecute anyone ignoring such signs, feel free. The problem is getting the police out in a timely fashion to start the process. Good luck calling PSP in a rural area and having them come within an hour or so. Then there may be issues with the local District Judge, on even getting any sort of relief. Sure, some trespass cases result in fines (usually defiant trespass cases), but many never make it that far for various reasons. Not the least of which is apathy on the part of local authorities.

And unposted land in PA is still private property, posted or not. You can be prosecuted for trespass on land not posted. Think of your property at home: Probably no posted signs around it, but if someone comes on without permission, or refuses to leave, they can be prosecuted for trespass.

Anyone can sue for becoming injured on another person's property - if they can find an ambulance chaser to take their case.

PA law does indemnify landowners enrolled in a PGC public access program from being sued by anyone allowed on to hunt, that becomes injured. Then again, see the above sentence.

Some states have very specific trespass laws, especially where hunting trespass is concerned and are happy to enforce them. PA is not one of them in far too many cases.

Admittedly minimal and vague.

Trespassing in Pennsylvania

Pennsylvania criminal law makes distinctions among four different types of trespassing. Under Pennsylvania law, police can charge a person for simple trespass, criminal trespass, defiant trespass and agricultural trespass. A person could face multiple charges for a single incident and a trial or plea agreement will ultimately determine the final charge for which a person will be sentenced. In general, the Pennsylvania code defines trespass as knowingly entering and remaining on another person's property without permission.

Specific Statutes

Criminal trespass, which carries the heaviest penalties, only applies to breaking into physical buildings. Defiant trespass applies in any case where a property owner has communicated to a person that he does not have permission to be on the land or in a building. Simple trespass applies in cases where a person enters a building or property for the purpose of threatening another person, starting a fire or defacing the property. Agricultural trespass only applies to farm land and does not apply to abandoned buildings on agricultural land. Pennsylvania sets the statute of limitations on trespassing at two years.

Notice of Private Property

"No trespassing" signs legally communicate the owner's desire not to have other people on the property. The Pennsylvania code specifically states that signs, "reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders," constitute actual communication or that desire. As a result, anyone simply entering posted property can be charged with a misdemeanor charge of defiant trespass if caught.

Sign Theft

Pennsylvania statues do not directly address removing "no trespassing" signs, but anyone defacing or removing such signs can face charges of criminal mischief and theft. Police can grade those offenses as summary or misdemeanor charges.

Enforcement

State and any local police have jurisdiction to enforce criminal trespass laws and file charges with the local magisterial district judge. Landowners typically worry most about trespassers during hunting season when many hunters enter the woods in search of deer, bear and other game. Pennsylvania Game Commission officers do not have the authority to enforce trespassing laws, but will assist police in investigating allegations. The Game Commission suggests landowners who witness trespassing to get any hunting license or license plate numbers and contact police.



Read more : http://www.ehow.com/list_7196069_laws-trespassing-signs-pennsylvania.html[color:#FF6666][/color]






Easy to say you didn't knowingly and hard to prove you knowingly did trespass. Reasonable signs-no one mentioned spacing or signage-however do constitute actual communication.

Having the police arrive in a timely fashion is definitely a problem.

Fairly sure the courts would judge home and agricultural property differently.

Have a friend-make that acquaintance-who has his own piece and the locals ignored his requests and signs until he repeatedly took them to court. The fines essentially put an end to it. Took some effort, but it worked. He had repeated offenders and the magistrate eventually ruled in his favor and left defense appeals up to them.

What aggravates me is when some post property that is open to hunting, that they do not own or have permission to post. And yes they don't have to sign them which makes it impossible to contact a landowner. Convenient little loophole.

There is a piece of just over 100 acres close to me that the owner allows hunting. As a matter of fact that owner owns 1000's of acres and some is posted and some not. Anyway, this year posted signs popped up on that 100 acres. Unsigned by the person who I knew owned the piece and he signs his signs. Hmmmmm. Then one day I drove by and they were all gone. Hmmmm again.

Went in and hunted it.

Good fellow. You may have heard of him in that he had a local famous individual kicked off the GC that was harassing him. He said he goes or all his property gets posted.

If not mistaken there's an entirely different set of PA statutes for Agricultural Trespass? Not surprisingly, that is taken far more seriously in some quarters, than your "run-of-the-mill" hunting trespass type infraction.

Long before the internet existed, most of us had probably heard bits of wisdom on posting and trespass, few of which were valid.

My opinion, if PA had clearly indicated trespass laws like OH has, we'd all be better off?

The last time we had a major trespass fracas near my camp, it involved two adjoining land owners new to the area. One was a fairly recent transplant from the NYC area, the other boys were from NJ and had just bought their ground for hunting.

The guy from NYC had built a small house next to what was a long abandoned twp. dirt road, ROW of which was the boundary betwen the two properties.

He made the twp. spiff up that goat path of a road as far as his new house. The NJ boys rolled in while NYC was on the road in his semi, parked their motor home smack in the middle of the road when they came up for buck season. They got into a tussle over where the property lines were and got off on the wrong foot.

First day of buck, NYC called PSP because the NJ boys were hunting well onto his land (posted to the hilt along the ROW). Took the cop about an hour to get there. Negotiated some sorta peace and left, no charges.

NYC solved the problem, eventually bought the adjoining property when the NJ guys had a falling out amongst themselves and wanted to sell it.



As for what you mentioned in the second post about people trying to bluff others out, we had a group tell a farmer he couldn't hunt where they were hunting one buck season. It was the farmer's own land, so that didn't go very well for them.

Once encountered two guys that tried that when I was deer hunting on an aunt's Potter farm. That didn't work either.

Had the same occur on my piece. As mentioned I let others hunt it, but one day two of us arrived at the same time and this fellow obviously was trying to get there first rather than being civil and saying hello. I then asked him if he had permission and he said, "Oh yea, the owner allows him to hunt there."

I said well I happen to own it and I never met you before now; perhaps we should contact the GC. Didn't realize it should have been the police. He changed his tune and started to leave. I stopped him and said go ahead and hunt, if I cared it would be posted.

He said, "You sure?" I said yea I'm sure.

Does anybody besides me use the mapping tool the PGC has on their website? It shows gamelands, state forests, parks, and all the properties in the access programs. Plus it has topo maps, street maps, and aerial photos. Kind of cool but there's a learning curve to it. I've used it to find local places to hunt when I can't make it home to my Dad's place.

Dale

Not yet, but since the 1000 acre lease I hunted a lot got sold I plan to do so. I'm not all that worried about finding a good place to hunt.