Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Question For PA Deer Hunters???

What do you really think?! <G>

I tend to agree that a lot of older guys, and I'm approaching geezerhood myself, want to do the same thing as they've done for the past 40 years. Times have changed.

My memories of the past 10 years or so are far better than the ones from 50, 40, 30 or 20 years ago, deer wise.

Most of those earlier decades were memories of few deer, scrawny bucks and then maybe 20 years ago, doe up the whazoo for several of those years. But still mostly scrawny bucks during the period of seeing lots of does running about.

Best memories from those old days, were the companionship of hunters who have since passed on and time spent in the deer woods with them. Sure as hell wasn't for the "quality" of bucks seen or taken?



My opinion, these past few years have been the most memorable deer wise, just for the truly nice bucks seen regularly. Enough baldies around to keep me happy. Now and then when things work out in my favor, I roll one for the venison. After all these years and deer taken, no longer need to kill a deer each year to punch my macho card.

Yep, things have changed and not all changes were for the worse. If I don't count bein' a gimpy old bastard now?

I believe you spent way too many years on the hill and not enough time round and about. If youd have ventured to Sweden Valley once or twice during them years youd have seen the caliber of buck routinely taken in "your" area. Scrawny buck werent the norm. Cant see the big ones if you stay inside with the cousins playing cards and drinking Seagrams.

There have always been big Bucks taken in Pa, in that we have good genetics. However, like anywhere for them to get there they need to live for 3.5 to 4.5 years. There is no other way. Kids are not ready for the NFL until that acquire some maturity, size and smarts. They have to grow up physically and Deer are not much different.

Those big Bucks of back in the day managed to survive the hordes of 100 car hunters who invaded their grounds and killed most of their relatives at 1.5. Although I never personally saw 100 at one location. Exaggeration perhaps? Then again, I have yet to see it all and am aware of the same.

No doubt today the herd total is less. No doubt the N. country can support more. No doubt that N. country hunters can make that happen if they leave the Does alone and tell the GC to keep their excess Doe tags.

More big Bucks today? You bet and it is State wide. Why? They are being allowed to live longer.

Addition: Just last week I saw one on a hitch that was coming out of the N. country. Probably a ML kill. Do the numbers, it is either 1, 2, or 3 less Deer that will be walking around there next year. When you don't have what you think is enough, each one counts.

History proves different. The GC never listens to the hunter, their "science" trumps your real world experiences. That is, until the hunters get the Legislature involved. Even then its an uphill climb. The tides slowly turning. Eventually, a middle ground will be reached. Until that happens, its political tug of war.

Agree and I hope you are correct.

However I meant we as individuals. Don't buy them for a few years and let them sit on them. I purchase a Doe tag, but it most certainly will not be for above I80 for the most part.

Never saw 100 plus cars along a mountain but remember seeing 100 doe a day and no bucks? Were they lesbien doe, or maybe you just were not good enough to find a buck? Now you are finally admitting there were always big deer in Pa. There is no denying that. The proof is in the photos in old Game News magazines which were published by the PAGC. What is the difference whether hunters don't buy doe tags for an area or simply do not hunt there? The deer are not bouncing back in some areas either way. I just talked to a DCNR officer today (I live right across from a State Park) when I went out to the mailbox. He said there were almost no deer taken in the park this year. In fact, the deer and bear take was almost equal (3). I talked to the County Game Warden in the late bow season. He barely saw any deer up in the bigger State Park above me. I guess everybody in this corner of the state is an idiot like me. I may not know what "Quality Hunting" is, but am smart enough to know when someone suckered me into driving a clear cut for them. I'm done wasting time.

Don't quit. You keep making my argument for me.

There either were or were not 100 cars. You have said both????? Can't remember saying there never were big Bucks taken in the past. Did say most were spikes or little forkies. Which doesn't mean there were no big ones. Have said there are more big ones being taken now. Since the early 80s can only think of three times I didn't get a Buck and a Doe. These past two years being two of them, but as mentioned did pass on one that was barely legal and saw two that most would be more than happy to have taken. Three actually, but I think I saw the same one twice. Those two beat me and I can live with it.

Guessing is your game and you are on fire
Addition: To be truthful there where a few times I didn't get both Buck and Doe. A buck was enough.


You really think there are lesbian Does? Get the GC on that one. We need a credentialed biologist to do a study.

There must be a few alternative lifestyle does?

More than once while observing groups of deer through a spotting scope, have seen an antlerless deer mount another antlerless deer. An no, the butch one was not a buck that had shed its antlers.

I may show up at the PGC meeting on the 25th to bitch, groan, growl and gripe about something? Just ain't figured out what to complain about yet. Heard they've removed the water fountain, maybe I'll yip about that.

If you do go, would you please ask them if they would consider including something in future hunter Ed classes re hunter movement and how it possibly relates to success in the field.

Late to the discussion on the last few pages here. I well remember the pre-QDM days. If you didn't see 35 deer the first day, it was a slow opener. You very well might look at those 35 deer and struggle to find that elusive year and half old spike that always seemed to end up on the game pole, if you got one.

Now, we don't see as many deer, but the herd's much better balanced, the bucks we get actually do have some horns, and are bigger that the 125-135 pound deer we shot in the past.

There was a period, after they shot off all the does, where it was tough just to see a deer, any deer, during the season. The herd is bouncing back now, at least in my area of Clearfield County.

I'm the first to admit that I was dead set against any form of QDM, but I have since changed my views on it's implementation, and how it's working. It's a big state guys. If you can't find deer in your usual spots, move around a bit. Hunting memories doesn't put meat in the freezer, and with so much publicly accessible land available, there's no reason not to try some different areas.

No offense GG, but according to your thread before the season, this was your first time home since AR's were implemented 13/14 yrs ago...and you spent one day hunting. And you came to the conclusion things are getting better how?

Agree with one exception and that would be replacing they with we. They told us we could do so, but in the face of ever decreasing sightings in the N country, we kept on doing it.

The GC aka they, didn't do the killing. We did.

Friends kept coming back from their N. country camps and telling stories of seeing less and less Deer. Next year they bought the Doe tags and headed North and returned with all the Does they could tag. All the while wondering why they saw less than the year before. When the bottom fell out they became victims who had to blame someone else.

And there will always be someone who will do the killing. Buying doe tags and not using them does one thing, guarantee next years allocations climb. Stop buying doe tags, and they'll DMAP it. Dont put so much blame on the hunters. Yes we do the killing, but the GC knows how to work the system and still get what they want.

More Doe tags and more DMAP requires hunters with rifles.

If I could hazard a guess, it would take max three years of us telling them to stuff their N country tags and that would come to the table being more than willing to cooperate and compromise.

I would think the legislature would take notice also. Although I'm not a big fan of having non-hunting politicians playing scratch my back when it comes to hunting regulations.


Those who want to kill any outrageous number need shown the error of their ways. Times have changed, but there used to be a farmer around family who made it a habit of gut shooting Deer with a .22lr. Went to town one day and his truck somehow ended up on its roof with a note on the window.

Addition: Some will always be willing to do more killing than necessary. Still think we could outnumber them and for the most part they would do their work not that far back in. On open public ground it would definitely take cooperation of farmers and landowners.

Addition: Incorrect on the farmer story. First they put notes on his window. Finally the truck ended up on its roof, but no note.
He finally came around.

Again, there will always be someone willing to do the killing.



Hunters have been complaining since inception of HR, try 14 yrs.



Thus far, the Legislature has been the hunters ONLY recourse. Whether you like politicians intervening or not makes no matter. Theyre the only ones listening at this point. Back in the thread a bit, your talk of hunters lobby, PFSC, is A OK with reduced herd. Ask Denny(dube) 2nd VP of PFSC. He signed the HUSH lawsuit for SH, and sends the mouth of the south Melody to Game & Fish meeting to side with the GC, and add some personal comments to piss off the Legislators. As of right now, the Legislature is the hunters only friend.

Here is how it can work on a one to one basis.

Had a good friend who bought his own piece of ground and spent a lot of money on building a camp, planting crops and working with a farmer. All good in that it is starting to bear fruit. He shot a nice Buck with his bow this year. Then he made the mistake of telling me he had someone else tag it and "right or wrong" were his words he had another Buck that had "His name on it" come rifle. I guess he has a "hit list."

If I never speak him again it will be fine with me. But eventually it is going to come to a head and it should get interesting.

Turn the SOB in. I have zero tolerance for poachers or other game law violators, and even less for folks who know and do nothing.

....and you have more faith in politicians than I, but I hope you are right.

It was a phone conversation and while I was told who tagged it, bringing her into the mess would serve little purpose. I've made some remarks to piss him off and eventually his ego will surface at which time we will have the conversation. He has dipped his foot too far into personal QDM and thinks he is doing what is best for "his" Deer. He will come around same as the farmer.