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Atheism is a faith in no God, therefore it's a faith and thusly a religion.
In my experience, active atheists are just as much rollers as recruitment-minded Christians.


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Originally Posted by Dave_Skinner
Atheism is a faith in no God, therefore it's a faith and thusly a religion.
In my experience, active atheists are just as much rollers as recruitment-minded Christians.


There is no evidence that there is a god. One does not need faith to understand that. Does one need faith to think there is no such thing as a Sasquatch or is lack of evidence enough?

Atheism is the acknowledgement and understanding that there is no evidence of a god or gods. Religious faith is the belief in a god or gods, in lieu of evidence.

I'm an atheist that has no problem with religious symbols, god on our money, or having a prayer to open a mtg. I frankly don't care if one believes in a god or gods or doesn't. It's a personal thing either way and everyone should just be ok with that. I see no reason why it is important to try to label an idea that god does not exist to be religion. Some atheists may approach and advance their ideas with a religious-like fervor, but to try to say that not believing in a religion is a religion is kinda double speak. I don't believe in Santa Claus either. Is that a religion too?

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Originally Posted by cooper57m
Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
Originally Posted by cooper57m
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
The translation(s) you mentioned have been done over the years as new manuscripts were found and from better understandings of specific word meanings as intended and perceived. You are right about things lost but there's also the matter of things found.

How about a yes or no answer to my question about the disciples/apostles mentioned?


I have no way of knowing and neither does anyone else. If they came to a wrong conclusion, which they believed, would they be liars, or just mistaken?



That brings up an interesting question. I always assumed that Atheists just took the Bible as fiction. Are you saying that you believe the Apostles lived but they were just mistaken when they saw blinded eyes opened, deaf people speak, lame walk, and the dead raised up?


Do you believe every faith healer, or anyone who has revived someone from death's door is a god or a son of god? One can believe the apostles lived, but wrote fiction. Lots have been written about lots of gods over time. They can't all be right, but they can all be wrong.


I could claim the same thing about all of history since it all happened so long ago and I didn't personally witness it, but at some point you have to believe something.

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To you there is no convincing evidence. To others there is. Both sides believe what they do, lacking conclusive evidence of their position. Perhaps one day something will happen that will make you believe, perhaps not. You might even see Bigfoot one day! Now if you saw Bigfoot, would you then also beleive in God....hmmm

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Originally Posted by TF49

Atheism is a belief, theory and a philosophy arguably intending to explain man's origin, his core nature and his future. This is religion, right?
Well - arguably - maybe so.


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Originally Posted by xxclaro
To you there is no convincing evidence. To others there is. Both sides believe what they do, lacking conclusive evidence of their position. Perhaps one day something will happen that will make you believe, perhaps not. You might even see Bigfoot one day! Now if you saw Bigfoot, would you then also beleive in God....hmmm


Not unless Bigfoot could turn water into bourbon (without that whole distilling process.) laugh

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Originally Posted by R_H_Clark
Originally Posted by cooper57m
Originally Posted by Old_Toot
The translation(s) you mentioned have been done over the years as new manuscripts were found and from better understandings of specific word meanings as intended and perceived. You are right about things lost but there's also the matter of things found.

How about a yes or no answer to my question about the disciples/apostles mentioned?


I have no way of knowing and neither does anyone else. If they came to a wrong conclusion, which they believed, would they be liars, or just mistaken?



That brings up an interesting question. I always assumed that Atheists just took the Bible as fiction. Are you saying that you believe the Apostles lived but they were just mistaken when they saw blinded eyes opened, deaf people speak, lame walk, and the dead raised up?


I'm not an atheist, I believe in God, yet I still believe the bible is pretty much an Aesop's fable.


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We're all just monkeys.

Deal with it people.

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Originally Posted by TF49

Atheism is a belief, theory and a philosophy arguably intending to explain man's origin, his core nature and his future.

This is religion, right?


Oh yes, it certainly is. Like other religions, when it attains power, it seeks to eliminate the competition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union


"Men must be governed by God or they will be ruled by tyrants". --- William Penn

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Originally Posted by TF49

Atheism is a belief, theory and a philosophy arguably intending to explain man's origin, his core nature and his future.

This is religion, right?


I think the OP is confusing atheism with the theory of evolution. While virtually all atheists are evolutionists and look to science for evidence that may point to certain conclusions about man's origin, his nature and future, not every evolutionist is an atheist. An atheist is just someone who has concluded there is no god, due to a lack of evidence. Now the christian religions try to circumvent reasonable doubt by saying, "Blessed are those who believe, without seeing me." How has this blessing manifested itself? Do believers live longer? Are they healthier? Is there any measurable advantage for believers? Not that I've seen. I know, their reward is found in some place we are told exists again without any evidence. Described as this:

Biblical Descriptions of Heaven

There is a constant chant of holy angels that are continually proclaiming Holy, Holy, Holy over the throne of God. The Mercy Seat in heaven where God sits is surrounded by magnificent angels full of glory and power that proclaim and bless the holy name of God without ceasing. Some of these are described as beasts, full of eyes, with six wings and neither rest day or night in their proclaiming the holiness of God (Rev. 4:8-11).

Sounds kinda noisy. What happened to that RIP stuff. I don't see anywhere where we get to go hunting 12 pointers all day.

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Originally Posted by RJY66
Originally Posted by TF49

Atheism is a belief, theory and a philosophy arguably intending to explain man's origin, his core nature and his future.

This is religion, right?


Oh yes, it certainly is. Like other religions, when it attains power, it seeks to eliminate the competition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union


While Soviet Communism made atheism their official policy, they are not synonymous. There are plenty of religious communists. Actually, the Jesus character in the bible is a bit of a socialist.

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Originally Posted by cooper57m
I understand faith. It is a belief not based on anything certain. Faith is a promise. I have faith that I will wake up tomorrow, but I know that tomorrow is not guaranteed to any of us. Faith is confidence and trust, but faith can be misplaced. You can have faith that a plane won't crash when you step onto one (or else why would you do it) but we also know that sometimes they crash. That particular faith is based on an expectation gleaned from past experience, that most planes don't crash. Faith, by definition, is not certain.

Religious faith is not based on past experiences, it is based on stories told to us. Some native americans believed the earth was created by a turtle, some people believe in reincarnation, some believe god spoke thru a burning bush, some believe there is one god and some have faith there are many gods. These beliefs are all based on stories told us, with no facts to back them up. Are they all correct? Why are you so sure the stories told you are more correct then a Hindu's, or a Muslim's or a Jew? They all have faith. If you believe that other religions can have it wrong, why is it so hard for some of you to understand that some of us think that all religions can have it wrong? There's no more evidence for one over another - is there?


Actually, as a Christian, I can see where some of the other religions are closer to being right than others.

As an Atheist, you have to believe that ALL of them are wrong.

FWIW... Spellcheck capitalizes Atheist just as it does Christian, Jew, etc.


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Originally Posted by cooper57m
As an atheist, I attend no church and I subscribe to no dogma. I don't think there is a god or an afterlife, either as a reward or punishment. Religious faith requires you to believe without proof. Beliefs vary across cultures. What you believe has more to do with where you were born and what your parents believed than it does with any independent knowledge on the part of the believer. In lieu of proof or a universally consistent religious experience, I see no evidence of a god(s). I don't much care how the universe came to be or how we came to be. I understand facts and evidence. I know my parents and not god made me, that I will live some amount of time, and will die and cease to be. That doesn't scare me. I don't need to pretend that there is a "better place" after I die to deal with all that. For me, atheism means no proof - no belief - in anything. I'm ok just letting the mysteries be without having belief in stuff that was made up by man in some primitive culture as a way to control behavior. But I'm ok with everyone that needs to believe in a god or whatever that helps them get through the day or their life.

Originally Posted by cooper57m


There is no evidence that there is a god. One does not need faith to understand that. Does one need faith to think there is no such thing as a Sasquatch or is lack of evidence enough?

Atheism is the acknowledgement and understanding that there is no evidence of a god or gods. Religious faith is the belief in a god or gods, in lieu of evidence.


I don't believe in Santa Claus either. Is that a religion too?


I don't consider myself an atheist but your posts are very well stated.

my spell check doesn't capitalize anything.


'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.' -Carl Sagan

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Originally Posted by curdog4570


As an Atheist, you have to believe that ALL of them are wrong.



Not really, as an Atheist I don't believe in a supreme being or god. I do however hold a belief system and morals mostly based on Christianity. I don't believe all religions are wrong, just that there is not a supreme being that created all. Religion is a lot more than just believing in god, a afterlife, and a savior. Religion to me is more about a moral and social set of rules and standards.

I have more than one Christian tell me I'm not trustworthy because I don't believe in a god, and moral values alone are not enough to hole oneself accountable.




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Atheism is a belief based on positing nothing of deity/"god"exists that is not observable. As a faith system, it is a "religion" in the way black is a color -- complete absence of light.

Jesus likened God's working to how wind is observed. You can see it working but not what it is.

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Agnosticism is a belief.

Atheism is a religion.



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As an not a real religious person I find this thread interesting. I think 57M made some good points. More or less raised as a baptist the ideas of xx number of virgins waiting for a muslim man than did the right think sounds nuts, but so does being saved , sins, confessions, pergatory and other things that we have no physcial proof of. To me fighting over "religion" is the stupidest thing there is , I have a good friend that used to be a southern baptist preacher , we can talk for hours with no "winner"

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Possibly whether it is a religion or not depends on how devoutly it is practiced.

To one person it may hardly be an issue at all, another may try to proselytize, defend, promote, and refute any other religion.

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Originally Posted by cooper57m
I understand faith. It is a belief not based on anything certain. Faith is a promise. I have faith that I will wake up tomorrow, but I know that tomorrow is not guaranteed to any of us. Faith is confidence and trust, but faith can be misplaced. You can have faith that a plane won't crash when you step onto one (or else why would you do it) but we also know that sometimes they crash. That particular faith is based on an expectation gleaned from past experience, that most planes don't crash. Faith, by definition, is not certain.
Religious faith is not based on past experiences, it is based on stories told to us. Some native americans believed the earth was created by a turtle, some people believe in reincarnation, some believe god spoke thru a burning bush, some believe there is one god and some have faith there are many gods. These beliefs are all based on stories told us, with no facts to back them up. Are they all correct? Why are you so sure the stories told you are more correct then a Hindu's, or a Muslim's or a Jew? They all have faith. If you believe that other religions can have it wrong, why is it so hard for some of you to understand that some of us think that all religions can have it wrong? There's no more evidence for one over another - is there?

This is nicely written and based on what seems to be sincere thought - but it is weak on more than one level and does not show that you actually do understand faith.
Although faith does not base itself on established proof, it IS NOT in any way a promise. The only active agent in a faith relationship is the person who holds faith.
It is not at all true that all religious faith is based on "stories told to us" or that all religious systems require some abstract belief/faith. Those statements are stretched - at best - maybe conveniently stretched in order to support your notes that ensue. In this post and later, it seems that you equate "belief" with "faith". As activated within an individual, are those really equal and the same? I think not. Do you? A piece written and read long ago - "The Dynamics of Faith", by Paul Tillich - seemed very helpful.


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>>As an Atheist, you have to believe that ALL of them are wrong.

FWIW... Spellcheck capitalizes Atheist just as it does Christian, Jew, etc.<<


No, as an atheist I think that all of them are wrong because there is no evidence that any of them are right. Since there is no dogma associated with atheism, there is no "have to". It's just free thought. You either believe in a god(s), or you don't, and if you don't you are an atheist. The term atheist does not require one to not believe, it's the not believing makes one an atheist.

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