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Cooper, you and other proclaimed atheist here put yourselves in some damned fine company. Namely; Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Pol Pot , Mao, Castro, etc., etc. and a few others.
Admittedly, their Atheism wasn't quite as passive as you folks proffer it to be.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Please name one scientific "fact" that two "scientists" with opposing views can agree upon? That the earth is roundish and not flat, maybe? That liquids and gases are both fluids, maybe?
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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cooper57m:
I don't need to revisit any previous post. I don't need to do anything I don't feel the need to do for you or anyone else. - - - All I need to do for the purposes of this discussion is to honestly present my view/thoughts on atheism to the best of my ability. Selfish. That simply is dictation – you take no responsibility for engaging discussion, let alone defending previous nonsensical comments. Self-proclaimed and felt “honesty” does not equal rational and intelligent discussion. cooper57m
However, for fun, I'll take on one of your statements presented as fact to which I disagree. Your statement: "The only active agent in a faith relationship is the person who holds faith." is incorrect. The holder of the faith is an inactive agent. Like a lock-box, a person has to be instilled with faith and then asked to just hold and keep the faith. The active agents in faith are the ones who feel it is their job to instill faith: the preacher, the rabbi, the priest, the parent etc. The holder of the faith is asked not to be active; not to question that faith. No one is born with a knowledge of religion, religious faith, or the concept of god. It has to be actively taught to them, through stories. Take the 10 commandments, the first commandment is a command to have faith in THE god. A command is active. Writing down commandments and the stories of the bible,or koran are active attempts to instill faith. Preachers use all forms of manipulation such as guilt, promise of eternal life, threats of condemnation, threats of death etc to ensure that people keep and hold onto their faith and to keep coming and filling the plate with $. Proclamation from a base of ignorance does not seem like much “fun”. Your above statements – despite your consultation with some dictionary - indicate that you have just about zero understanding of faith. No human can “instill” or coerce faith to take place in another; no request or demand by another person can induce faith on the part of another; no other person can force, or induce, or instill in me any belief that you understand discussion. It seems impossible to discuss faith with someone who has such a poor understanding of the concept. You make a lot of declarative statements without any examples or discussion of how you came to your conclusions, or, are you just regurgitating what you read somewhere. If faith is not instilled in someone thru indoctrination (which is how it was told to me when I was young and was taken to church every week and made my first communion and was confirmed, all as a child) then are babies born with it? Like the Catholic concept of original sin? If that is the case (which it isn't, but for the sake of discussion), why do some have different faiths? Why do some lose faith? Why do some change faiths? Why is there no universal faith? Why is so much time spent preaching faith? You say I have no understanding of faith. Easy enough to say. I can say the same about you. If you are all knowing about all things faith, it's your responsibility to enlighten us. How do you believe one acquires faith? How about you answer some questions.
Last edited by cooper57m; 03/25/15.
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Cooper, you and other proclaimed atheist here put yourselves in some damned fine company. Namely; Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Pol Pot , Mao, Castro, etc., etc. and a few others.
Admittedly, their Atheism wasn't quite as passive as you folks proffer it to be.
Ah, guilt by association. How about: David Koresh, Jim Jones, Osama Bin Laden, Cromwell, Pope Urban II, all the numerous priests who molest children and all those in the Catholic church who covered it up etc etc and a few others.
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False prophets, all. You forgot Jimmy Swaggert, Gorman, Mormons and a few others.
It's what happens when humans follow and put their faith in the mortal man and not the word.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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False prophets, all. You forgot Jimmy Swaggert, Gorman, Mormons and a few others.
It's what happens when humans follow and put their faith in the mortal man and not the word. You're referring to the word written by mortal men. Why hasn't god guided the hand of mortal man and written anything lately? One best seller and done? Oh wait, he wrote the Koran too.
Last edited by cooper57m; 03/25/15.
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Campfire Tracker
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False prophets, all. You forgot Jimmy Swaggert, Gorman, Mormons and a few others.
It's what happens when humans follow and put their faith in the mortal man and not the word. You're referring to the word written by mortal men. Why hasn't god guided the hand of mortal man and written anything lately? One best seller and done? Oh wait, he wrote the Koran too. On the other theosophy thread running, eyeball claimed that God was guiding his posting. So apparently, God might not be done writing yet.
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Campfire Ranger
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False prophets, all. You forgot Jimmy Swaggert, Gorman, Mormons and a few others.
It's what happens when humans follow and put their faith in the mortal man and not the word. You're referring to the word written by mortal men. Why hasn't god guided the hand of mortal man and written anything lately? One best seller and done? Oh wait, he wrote the Koran too. And what else does He need to say? Pretty much covered it all. You're right about one best seller and done.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Whatever one states their 'motivation' is, fact is it's really no different than debating politics or any other issue that people feel strongly about. Both sides are simply attempting to defend or justify their position on an issue that they feel strongly about. Smug and haughty though, from either side, doesn't lend much credence to the position that one is attempting to defend or justify. That's my point. I know why I, as a Christian, feel strongly about the subject but why does the Atheist feel so strongly about something he says he doesn't even believe in? My suspicion is that God is a lot more important to the Atheist than he will ever admit and he feels a need to justify his position as well as the desire for validation from others of a similar view. To me this elevates simple unbelief to the status of religion.
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Barry, what a crock of BS. Only a religious person can have empathy or emotions? I didn't get the atheist code book that says that I shouldn't care about my fellow man or that I shouldn't contribute to charities or volunteer my time. Think of all the money I could have saved for myself, and time that I'll never get back. I don't like to throw around insults or name call, but if you truly believe what you wrote, you are an idiot. There is just no nicer word for it. It's not an insult. It's just a cold, logical fact. Are the full implications of your atheism not looking so good to you now? That's all on you, not me.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Thanks for the update. Should I go over and read it or wait for the movie.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Originally Posted By MadMooner
Damn....
GODSPEED
So, MM, is this post a joke or a Freudian slip?
Last edited by eyeball; 03/25/15.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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I think that most atheism boils down to laziness plus a lack of any thoughtfulness as to what it really means. Really a state of depression.
You put the whole universe in front of a lot of these people and they are like "meh, is that all you got?".
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Nope.
I believe in God. Just not necessarily the same one as everyone else and have little use for a bible, or religion in general for that matter, and find humor in people's struggles to convince the world their religion is the right one.
“Life is life and fun is fun, but it's all so quiet when the goldfish die.”
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Campfire Ranger
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Nope.
I believe in God. Just not necessarily the same one as everyone else and have little use for a bible, or religion in general for that matter, and find humor in people's struggles to convince the world their religion is the right one.
There's only one but you can always roll your own, I guess.
The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.
What we've learned from history is that we haven't learned from it.
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Barry, what a crock of BS. Only a religious person can have empathy or emotions? I didn't get the atheist code book that says that I shouldn't care about my fellow man or that I shouldn't contribute to charities or volunteer my time. Think of all the money I could have saved for myself, and time that I'll never get back. I don't like to throw around insults or name call, but if you truly believe what you wrote, you are an idiot. There is just no nicer word for it. It's not an insult. It's just a cold, logical fact. Are the full implications of your atheism not looking so good to you now? That's all on you, not me. Where did you come up with this "fact"?
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The reason people who believe in God don't want to die too soon is because only life offers the ability to change and, hopefully, get better. Once you die, you are frozen at what ever level of spiritual maturity you were at when you died. If you die in unrepentant sin, that's where you are frozen.
Please support the statement in bold.
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You don't even believe in spirits. Nothing I can write would convince you.
Maybe you should tell me about the wonderful growth opportunities found in Hell.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Barry, what a crock of BS. Only a religious person can have empathy or emotions? I didn't get the atheist code book that says that I shouldn't care about my fellow man or that I shouldn't contribute to charities or volunteer my time. Think of all the money I could have saved for myself, and time that I'll never get back. I don't like to throw around insults or name call, but if you truly believe what you wrote, you are an idiot. There is just no nicer word for it. It's not an insult. It's just a cold, logical fact. Are the full implications of your atheism not looking so good to you now? That's all on you, not me. Where did you come up with this "fact"? You claim to be a smart boy, puzzle it out.
Islam is a terrorist organization.
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Barry, what a crock of BS. Only a religious person can have empathy or emotions? I didn't get the atheist code book that says that I shouldn't care about my fellow man or that I shouldn't contribute to charities or volunteer my time. Think of all the money I could have saved for myself, and time that I'll never get back. I don't like to throw around insults or name call, but if you truly believe what you wrote, you are an idiot. There is just no nicer word for it. It's not an insult. It's just a cold, logical fact. Are the full implications of your atheism not looking so good to you now? That's all on you, not me. Where did you come up with this "fact"? Another christian that makes things up as they go. Sounds so good in their minds.
'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.' -Carl Sagan
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