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Campfire 'Bwana
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antelope_sniper, And you are holding forth your God who endorses slavery as your standard setter? You keep forgetting we are the pots and God is the Potter. We are animated dirt and He is the Animator. You constantly borrow from God's laws of logic to argue against God. You seem to forget evolution is based on constant random change. Your brain is a random accumulation of chemicals which should not be depended on. How about doc eyeball's misogynist thread from a couple days ago, all endorsed by his interpretation of your Bible. I have enough trouble remembering my posts. If you don't mind remind me of his statement, please. I might like it.  Is slavery moral? Lets be more specific. Is it moral to permit the ownership of another human being, where you are allowed to beat that person so long as they don't die for a day or two? Yes, or no?
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 03/30/15.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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RM's Absolute Morality in action.
Hosea 13:16
"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."
Infants and aborted fetuses killed for the sins of their parents.
Cool huh?
Did He cause that, or did we, while He only predicted it. 
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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Campfire Tracker
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RM's Absolute Morality in action.
Hosea 13:16
"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."
Infants and aborted fetuses killed for the sins of their parents.
Cool huh?
Did He cause that, or did we, while He only predicted it. Did you miss the part about rebelling against God? Scripture very much spells out the consequences of doing so.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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RM's Absolute Morality in action.
Hosea 13:16
"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."
Infants and aborted fetuses killed for the sins of their parents.
Cool huh?
Did He cause that, or did we, while He only predicted it. Did you miss the part about rebelling against God? Scripture very much spells out the consequences of doing so. Of course he missed it. Doc doesn't ever really read the Bible.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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Campfire Ranger
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antelope_sniper, Is slavery moral?
Lets be more specific. Is it moral to permit the ownership of another human being, where you are allowed to beat that person so long as they don't die for a day or two?
Yes, or no? You have a real problem keeping up with traffic in the conversation area. How many times has it been posted Christians use the New Testament Part of the Bible for instructions and the Old Testament for Bible history. If you knew much world history you would realize Christians are the ones who have eliminated slavery when they had the authority.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Friend eyeball, Toasting tonight with fresh corn squeezings. How about you?
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It appears that current day Christians are embarrassed of the immorality, brutality and bloodthirstiness of their God.
It is just gosh darn more convenient to separate, as Bible history, the OT God from the instructional NT God because the NT God appears in the texts to be 'reformed'. Really more Santa Claus-like than Satan-like as is seen in the OT.
Problem for Christians is that the Biblical text also claim that God has always been perfect. Any change to perfection is....imperfection. Seems if God's historical instructions can be superseded by NT instructions, then the OT instructions are updateable (fixable) like the problematic Windows OS.
Christians don't get to redefine God for their convenience. They have to reconcile with the fact that God of the OT is the same God of the NT. Spinning the facts any other way just makes it a lie. Plus, it is a sin. If you are ashamed of God, God will be ashamed of you. Makes for a very bad outcome on Judgement day.
So sorry.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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antelope_sniper, Is slavery moral?
Lets be more specific. Is it moral to permit the ownership of another human being, where you are allowed to beat that person so long as they don't die for a day or two?
Yes, or no? You have a real problem keeping up with traffic in the conversation area. How many times has it been posted Christians use the New Testament Part of the Bible for instructions and the Old Testament for Bible history. If you knew much world history you would realize Christians are the ones who have eliminated slavery when they had the authority. The Bible was used to justify slavery by the Southern Slave owners. In addition, the New Testament is no better on slavery then the old. In first Peter and Corinthians slaves are commanded to obey their masters. If God opposed slavery, and he is so perfect, why couldn't he have just put it in the 10 commandments.....you know something like "Thou shall not own another human being as property"? Instead he sets prices and sets the rules for enslaving others in warfare, and commands slaves to "obey in all things your master...". Not once does Jesus say, "Don't own people because it is wrong".
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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The Bible was used to justify slavery by the Southern Slave owners.
In addition, the New Testament is no better on slavery then the old. In first Peter and Corinthians slaves are commanded to obey their masters.
If God opposed slavery, and he is so perfect, why couldn't he have just put it in the 10 commandments.....you know something like "Thou shall not own another human being as property"?
Instead he sets prices and sets the rules for enslaving others in warfare, and commands slaves to "obey in all things your master...".
Not once does Jesus say, "Don't own people because it is wrong". And you point? Do you want to own a slave or two and justify it with God's Word?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Something Christians need to be proud of is: owning another human being as property is now an abomination against man but it is not now or ever was a sin against God.
Come Judgement Day, if you forced another human being into slavery, you get a pass.
Man evolved a moral authority more fair than God's.
So cool that I can post stuff like this and RM can't reply.
Win win.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Chewy, this schit goes on!
Sean
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Campfire Regular
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If God exists and we are unaware of it, then we are living without knowing the most fundamental truth in the universe.
It is also noteworthy that the bible prophetically made the claim thousands of years ago that the great city of Babylon that can still be seen in Irac today would be destroyed and never be inhabited again. It holds true to this day!
Shod
The 6.5 Swede, Before Gay Was Ok
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The Bible was used to justify slavery by the Southern Slave owners.
In addition, the New Testament is no better on slavery then the old. In first Peter and Corinthians slaves are commanded to obey their masters.
If God opposed slavery, and he is so perfect, why couldn't he have just put it in the 10 commandments.....you know something like "Thou shall not own another human being as property"?
Instead he sets prices and sets the rules for enslaving others in warfare, and commands slaves to "obey in all things your master...".
Not once does Jesus say, "Don't own people because it is wrong". And you point? Do you want to own a slave or two and justify it with God's Word? The question is why can't you just admit this simple truth. Slavery is morally wrong, and slavery is endorsed by your Bible.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Campfire Ranger
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Slavery is morally wrong... Yep. But it's been defended by some here on this board...and even by some who profess to be 'Christians'.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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You are rather simple, that's for sure. The hunters in your analogy have physical evidence they can show to other people. Where is yours? If you don't have any, you don't know either. Faith and belief are not the same as knowing.
billhilly posted: You are rather simple, that's for sure. The hunters in your analogy have physical evidence they can show to other people. Where is yours? If you don't have any, you don't know either. Faith and belief are not the same as knowing. antelope sniper posted: God has to exist before he can be sovereign. antlers posted: An atheist can no more 'disprove' the existance of God than can a believer 'prove' the existance of God. 4ager posted: No one "knows" one way or the other. That, is fact. Many have beliefs, one way or the other, but no one "knows". Here are some cuts from the above posts: “no one knows” about the existence of God. Also, “..... (can’t) … ‘prove’ the existance of God. “God has to exist (implying this has not been demonstrated, at least to AS) Then, “The hunters have evidence, Where is yours? …. you don’t know either.” Seems that many believe that because God cannot be proven to an atheist, that this “proof” of God’s existence is not out there. This is simply not true. Going back to the moose hunters. They HAVE THEIR PROOF in their own experience. They may not be able to convince the other hunters at the campfire, but they did in fact have the experience and therefore are believers. Their set of experience contains MORE FACT and has given them FIRM BELIEF in bf/unicorns. Now the skeptics at the campfire may not believe the story but the moosehunters believe it. In their experience, there is PROOF of the existence of bigfoots and unicorns. Sure, maybe nobody will believe it but that does not change the TRUTH of it and the TRUTH that the moosehunters now accept and believe. billhilly posted that “I (TF) don’t know” Well, if my experience set includes an experience with God, then I KNOW that and billhilly cannot know or appreciate it. AS posts that “God has to exist before he can be sovereign” He is correct in that but he has not had the same experience with God that I have. He cannot “know” what my faith and belief are based on. He may state that “God has not met the (my) burden of proof.” OK, but that does not deter me in any way because I have had the experience that he has not had, at least not yet. antlers posts that an atheist cannot disprove the existence of God. True enough. But God CAN PROVE his existence to us as individuals. He has proven his existence to me. Maybe not to antlers, at least not yet. 4ager posts what may be the most straightforward view of them all. He says “...no one knows.” I would think that that is a truly held belief. But, it does not square with my own experience. I have experiences that 4ager has not yet had. So, I know this post sounds imperious and even a bit haughty but that’s the best I seem to able to do right now. TF Just because you experience something, doesn't mean it was real. Do you believe in Alien Abductions? There are thousands of people who claim to have been abducted by aliens, taken into strange crafts, and butt probed. To these people their experiences were real, but I ask you, which is more likely, that they got butt probed by aliens, and have no evidence for it, or experienced a delusion. One interesting point is the similarity in the alien abduction stories, which are more similar then the wide variety of different Christian Gods experienced by people. If he is the same God, are they not more similar to each other? Anthropologist have studies the various ways primitive tribes are knows to bring on a state of delusion, from heavy panting in a low oxygen part of a deep cave, peyote, various fermented beverages, and dancing in the sun while dehydrates and bleeding. All of these are credited with bringing on an "enlightened state" similar to what Christians make regarding their God experience. Of course as a skeptic I have to ask, what is more likely. Did Crazy horse experience the Great Spirit on Sundance Mountain, or was he just having a sunstroke? Did you experience God, or were you just caught up in the frenzy of your congregation? Did Paul see Jesus, or did he just have a sunstroke on a primitive road in the middle of a desert before the invention of air conditioning? Why is it that your god cannot manifest himself in any manner beyond a vision in your head? And why are your visions different from those of every other Christian? Why is it that you are unable to offer any evidence, and the best you can do is a watered down version of the presuppositional argument? At what point do you admit, you've got nothing, and there is no there, there? butt probed 
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Try harder Ringman.
And the "PhD scientists" that you often refer to in your posts have been thoroughly debunked as quacks by Antelope Sniper each time, as has their psychobabble quackery. But when one brings up the most sophisticated storage and retrieval system known to man, the DNA molecule, we are told it is from random chance. By the way, antlers, I noticed you didn't mention the other scientific principals I posted. The guy I read about who happened to be a very rich Christian purchased an electron mass spectrometer (I hope I got that right.). His machine is something like a magnitude more sensitive that what has been available up till now. Everything that possibly could have carbon 14 he tested did have carbon 14. Maybe you could find someone with the a machine like that and find a fossil with no carbon 14. One is all you would need to disprove the 100% claim. Again, you are just wrong. First Evolution is not random. There is a selecting system, known as natural selection, which is not random. Second, DNA is not "information". Information involves the communication between two or more minds, and DNA duplicates it self through a simple chemical process. There is no conveyance of thoughts in the duplication process, therefore your use of an Equivocation Fallacy is once again invalid. Now lets discuss how the half life of carbon 14 really works. As previously noted Carbon14 has a half life of 5730 years. So let's ask the question, how much of a carbon14 sample remains after 5730 years? Since we are using round numbers, the math is actually pretty easy. Take 1/2 and raise it to the 10th power, and you get 1/1024. In other words, after 57,300 years, 0.09765625% of the carbon 14 will remain within a given sample. So lets use your earth example. The mass of the earth is 6.58321x10^21 short tons. So how much would remain after 57,300 years. Well this is just a matter of simple division. Divide the above figure by 1024 and you get 6,428,918,544,921,880,000 short tons. So, once again, your assertion that if the entire earth was made of carbon14 that it would evaporate in 50-60k years is absolutely absurd, and demonstrates you inability to comprehend simple 6th grade math. what I wanna know is how someone can yank a rib outta someone and make someone else hmmmmmmmmmmm cloning??????????????????????
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what I wanna know
is how someone can yank a rib outta someone and make someone else
hmmmmmmmmmmm
cloning??????????????????????
A clone of Adam would be another Adam. Don't start talking gay. It riles up the homophilic thumpers.
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Campfire Ranger
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The question is why can't you just admit this simple truth.
Slavery is morally wrong, and slavery is endorsed by your Bible. The simple truth is there is no Absolute Morality without the God of the Bible. You seem to think we are at the top of the heap of life. On the other hand, I think we are near the bottom of life and are only important because God declares it so. You seem to think morality evolved. If that is the case it is in a constant state of flux.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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what I wanna know is how someone can yank a rib outta someone and make someone else When Someone is Omnipotent He can do whatever He wants.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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