I'll leave the building of a data base for each bullet to the gun writers. I'll go with a Nosler Partition or Hornady interlock, in a caliber that's a little bigger than necessary, with a hand load that's a little below max and call it good. A 270 on deer, a 30/06 on elk leaves a little margin for error without kicking snot out of both ears every time I pull the trigger.
It's a trust factor with me, and fortunately I have to please myself only. That's why anymore, I'm seldom without an accubond or partition. I see them as the best of both worlds.....soft/hard in the same package.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
Bought my first deer rifle in 1972 with calf money, a Remington 700 ADL .270. The first ammo I tried was Remington Core Lokt 130 grains and it was very accurate so I never tried anything else. They worked great for 38 years on deer and hogs, no matter the shot angle. Sometimes there was fragmentation sometimes not. Sometimes the shot was through and through and sometimes not. Sometimes there was a lot of meat damage and sometimes very little. If my shot was well placed I had a dead deer that if it ran didn't go that far. Shot a few deer too high or too far back and never recovered them. Five years ago I switched to a 6.5x55 in a modern commercial mauser action and took up reloading because US ammo was anemic and European ammo too expensive. Used 140 grain Core Lokts. Same results as the .270. Bought some 130 Grain Berger Hunting VLD's over the summer and finally got a good load developed for them a couple of months ago. Will be trying them on deer this fall. If I ever go after elk I might try a premium bullet but I might also stay with Core Lokts in my 30-06.
I also don't believe in ceasing to use a particular bullet because of one failure. I use 65 grain GameKings on coyotes out of my AR and had a splash on a coyote last winter. The GK's worked for three years and haven't had an issue since. Could it be possible that occasionally you just get a defective bullet? I think so.
I don't think anyone is suggesting making judgements on a single bullet performance but a thread like this can produce a compilation of single issues to the point if 10 or 20 guys get on here and state the same thing from the same product, maybe there is something to it even if it is a uniform perception.
That is why when you add the love for Partitions and Hornady bullets, you can't help get a sense they are a good product.
I often quote single issues like the aforementioned .416 Weatherby and 340gn Woodleigh experience, but I shot several boxes at game in a land that has no hunting seasons and no DOW and the only limits are what the property owners says his wife likes to keep around.
Hundreds of kills a year are common which is cumulative experience by any definition, so single examples are simply the equivalent of a yawn in life of breathes.
I like to read each persons experience as it is both interesting in their perception, descriptions of the event and again, that cumulative commentary which is painting a clearer picture for everyone.
The best example on this site is probably the original testimony on the Nosler Ballistic Tips that replaced the Solid Base series of bullets. They were too soft and I know from personal experience using them in a number of rifles and chamberings.
The follow up commentary on more recent users is cumulative experience that these bullets are now elevated to a trustworthy and reliable status for both game and accuracy. It's all good.
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
I believe your point about statistics. However when I had problems with the first three deer I shot with a new to me rifle cartridge, I tried a new bullet. I am too impatient to give the thing 37 more tries.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
All I use are cast bullets or cup and core. Because I do not hunt anything that has to penetrate at all costs, or use magnums, any of the aforementioned work just great.
Mooses, bears, deer and big bears have all fallen to my Ruger in 45-70. There were no arguments. None of the animals was insulted with Lyman No 2 or cuppy-core type bullets chasing them. They simply fell over.
I guess it has to be repeated from time to time, but the cartridge used, game pursued, and distance you expect to encounter it have to be considered when selecting a bullet. I do not know that any bullet does it all, shot from any distance, against all animals.
Cuppy-cores and lead work a treat on virtually every critter on the planet. ---
Based on a small sampling of four deer taken with NPs in four dfferent calibers, it seems that they kill just as fast as ordinary c&c bullets, but always exit and seem to cause less bloodshot meat in the offside shoulder. All four were broadside shots aimed at the heart, although the heart wasn't always hit directly.
To be fair, most c&c bullets worked just fine and also generally exited as well, even "old" BTs, but one that didn't exit gave me a bad time for a bit due to the lack of a blood trail.
Given a choice and assuming the NPs shoot okay in a particular rifle, they are my first choice.
I like bullets just soft enough but not to hard like my pillow. If I want more penetration I will shoot a heavy for cal. bullet or if I want more dramatic effect rn or fn bullets hit game hard.I feel premium bullets are A waste on thin skin game on 270 on up cals. at reasonable speeds.
You and I seem to be in the minority these daze. When I go hunting for moose with my 308 or 30-06, I use 200 grain bullets. Standard cup and core. Nothing special. They go in. Expand. most exit.
When I started making my own, I shot 200 grain bullets from a 303 British at 2300 fps. Wonderful deer medicine. The same bullet works on black bear and meeses.
Anybody compared an Accubond to a cup and core? From what I've heard, the front of the AB is pretty soft and would offer similar performance. I actually like the idea of a 'softer' bullet for deer.
An Accubond is a cup and core bullet.
Yes, but they have a bonded core which makes them much tougher than, say a regular Ballistic Tip. From what I've read from Mule Deer, they behave much more like a Partition than a standard cup/core. I'm eager to try my new 150 grn Accubond LR I just got in my 280 Ackley which has a BC of 611.
I like bullets just soft enough but not to hard like my pillow. If I want more penetration I will shoot a heavy for cal. bullet or if I want more dramatic effect rn or fn bullets hit game hard.I feel premium bullets are A waste on thin skin game on 270 on up cals. at reasonable speeds.
A waste of what?
What's "thin skinned game"? Is it a waste of something for a 270 user to use a 130 TTSX on an Alaskan Yukon moose? What if he has moose and Dall sheep on the same hunt?
Did he waste anything using the TTSX on both animals, which are both considered as "thin skinned game"?
Just trying to follow the logic here.,as I get perplexed when people complain about reliable bullet expansion and penetration on a wide variety of game animals,as if they are both something to be avoided
Having used a pretty big spectrum of hunting bullets on game and reading the notes of their performance in my reloading manuals. It appears that fast expansion and even a bit of shrapnel Kills a bit to a lot quicker than the bullets that retain a lot of their weight. And even more horrifying it appears that certain brands of cup and core bullets are very fast killers of game if placed in the ribs. Ballistic Tips, Gamekings, Interloks and Hotcors in the midweights really seem to put game on the ground fast.
I agree. I'm also one that chooses to use heavy for caliber bullets when going that route. Sometimes it looks like this:
1. 225gr. Hornady interlock for 338 when elk hunting 2. 200 gr. pills for 300 magnums. 3. 180gr. Winchester powerpoints for deer and elk in ol 06. 4. 150gr. pills in 270 win for elk.. 5. 250gr. sierra GK for elk in 338 win mag..
I've also had some premiums act like solids and go clean thru the vitals and keep on going and animal acts like it wasn't even hit. You know they are dead on their feet, but they don't respond that way. When elk hunting, I've seen quicker kills with the big heavy GK (250gr. in the 338 win mag) than any other pill around... Don't worry, I've got my nomex on..
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
BobinNH...WOW take A breath man I said that's how I feel about using premium bullets. C&C bullets do give reliable expansion and penetration using a heavy enough bullet at reasonable speeds.They have work for a lot of years and I do not feel a need to waste money on something that works.Thin skinned game since you mention moose and sheep I think you know what I mean.For your moose and sheep friend I would say use A cal that starts with a three.Peace...
Driftless: No I really did not know what you meant...but I get it now. I guess we define "thin skinned game" in different ways
Point being that not everyone wants a 30-something and bigger for a range of game animals, and stouter construction helps on bigger animals while hurting nothing in the slightest on smaller stuff.
I guess I would worry a bit about cost of bullets if I were culling does, but not in the least for even 8-10 animals here or elsewhere in a hunting season.
Having used a pretty big spectrum of hunting bullets on game and reading the notes of their performance in my reloading manuals. It appears that fast expansion and even a bit of shrapnel Kills a bit to a lot quicker than the bullets that retain a lot of their weight. And even more horrifying it appears that certain brands of cup and core bullets are very fast killers of game if placed in the ribs. Ballistic Tips, Gamekings, Interloks and Hotcors in the midweights really seem to put game on the ground fast.
You and I seem to be in the minority these daze. When I go hunting for moose with my 308 or 30-06, I use 200 grain bullets. Standard cup and core. Nothing special. They go in. Expand. most exit.
When I started making my own, I shot 200 grain bullets from a 303 British at 2300 fps. Wonderful deer medicine. The same bullet works on black bear and meeses.
I killed my last Moose with a 220 Core Lokt out of my .30-06. I couldn't have gotten a much better result. The Moose before that one fell to my .450M with a 350 Interlock and that was uneventful. I just don't believe premium bullets are necessary on such animals. My first Moose gave me some trouble but that was due to my .30-30 and 170 Silvertips and even that ended quickly although I was about to be charged.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/AP39Jhm.jpg)
