Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters In defense of soft hunting bullets

I started this thread just before I left for a mandatory turkey, feral hog and poker game at my deer lease which is 40 miles south of Childress, Texas. I broke even on the poker game, saw several turkeys but didn't get a shot and I shot a big feral hog. I had not seen much sign but had gotten up two nights in a row to sneak up on bait piles. I carried my 35 Whelen and saw no hog and very little sign of them those two nights. Sunday morning I didn't get up at dawn but drank coffee and relaxed instead of walkng three miles. Got in my truck with the idea of just looking to see if any of my bait had been hit and drove up to my first hog toy. It is on the far side berm of an old pump location evaporation pond and I saw this big brown feral hog pushing my hog toy around the tee post it is tethered to. I am behind the berm on my side of the dry evap pond, stop the truck, turn it off, open the door, get out and rest my rifle over the hood. The shot is perfect, said hog is angling to my right with room to angle my bullet thru the paunch and the center of his chest. I shoot and he freezes for a second then runs up the berm and out of sight. No blood and no hog. I search for sign by making big circles after I lose his tracks in the brush and pick up a blood trail with corn it it. The blood trail leads me to the fence line more than a mile away. Goodby hog. He ran most of the way and left enough blood to be easily followed but not a lot of blood. The bullet I used was one I shoot to check zero and practice, the 220 gr. Speer Hotcor going 2600 fps or close to it. Range was 80 yards. I believe the bullet never made it past the diaphram. I have been using the 225 gr. Woodleigh RN but the rifle was loaded with the Speer because one of the other poker players wanted to shoot a Whelen and decided one shot was enough leaving 4 more in the magazine. Moral of story, use tough bullets for tough game and 350 pound feral hogs are tough game. Probably would have worked perfectly with a broadside hit.

Exactly why I like and use TSX or TTSX bullets. I run 180's in mine and have never been disappointed.

A TSX or TTSX could have been used in a lighter weight with more velocity and flatter trajectory. A win, win

The 220 gr. Speers are my plinking bullets basically because they are cheap for 35 caliber bullets. Though I have never killed a deer with this Whelen I bet the 220 Speer would work well on them. The 225 gr. Woodleighs work fine on hogs and I have yet to recover one as do the 250 gr. Speers, Hornady's and Partitions.

Back on topic. In my 243 and 6MM Remington I have found that 100 gr. Remington corelokts, Nosler Solid base soft points and 95 gr. Ballistic tips really seem to put deer down faster than the 85gr. Nosler Partitions I used the last two seasons. They all generally give exit holes but the Partition makes the smallest.

I know very few people personally on these Internet boards, so I tend to dismiss anything that is contrary to my experience. The only exception would be when many people come forward and to support the other claim. Again, I agree with you. A 220 gr. bullet shot from a 30-06 works on darn near anything.

Like most people here, I have a pile of firearms. For that reason, I always choose the cartridge (and therefore, the rifle) based on the game, not the bullet. WRT to premium bullets, I would never load up a Barnes or NP bullet in a 243 for example, and go out after moose, just because it might be adequate. I would use another cartridge better suited to the job.

What it boils down to, in my mind anyway, is my own knowledge of what's needed, where and what I hunt. If I go somewhere unfamiliar for larger animals, I talk to people who actually know the terrain and distances in that area, and listen to their recommendations. And I always travel with three rifles - in case of damage to my primary, or change of plan. Cup and core bullets will continue to be part of my game plan.

Lastly, my 'do anything' rifle is a 30-06.
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Because I have a cartridge/rifle for almost everything, I have never had a reason to substitute a lead, or cup and core bullet for a Nosler/Barnes or bonded core. I don't buy the "Why cheap out on bullets?" question.

If the animal is too far away, hidden by underbrush, standing at an odd angle, or any other suspect or marginal situation, then I don't shoot. I do worry about not putting the bullet where it needs to go. For that reason, I pass on poor percentage shots. For that reason, I do not accept "XXX bullets perform better or superior to std ones for marginal/miscalculated/bone/odd angle shots."

To those people who do not have the right rifle/cartridge for a specific hunt, I suggest that they borrow or buy one. This rarely happens these days. With Savage Axis (Axes?) or Ruger American rifles around, it's hard not to add to the gun locker cheaply.

These are my thoughts and they have never let me down. Others can do what they want...as will I.

Eileen and I have a bunch of big game rifles too, like most people here, and use both cup-and-core and "premium" bullets in them. We choose the bullet according to the game and the velocity, and haven't had any problems in many years.

Anybody who thinks a Hornady Interlock Spire Point isn't an adequate deer bullet even at 3000 fps or a little more simply hasn't tried them, and in heavier weights at sub-3000 velocities they work well on bigger game. There aren't many species of big game I'd worry about hunting with 250 Interlocks from my .358 Winchester or 286's from my 9.3x62.

in my experience Nosler Ballistic Tips work very similarly to Interlock Spire Points, whether their weight when recovered, on the rare occasions they are, or how they kill stuff.

But Eileen also loads the 180 Speer Hot-Cor flatnose at around 2000 fps in her German combination gun, which is supposedly a 9.3x72R but has a .35-caliber bore. It knocks the snot out of deer and we haven't recovered one yet.

I've also use several Sierras in various cartridges, and know from long experience that the 160 GameKing works very well on deer and similar-sized game from the 7x57 Mauser, whether in North America or Africa.

But we also use several premium bullets, which work very well in specific applications too, including Barnes TSX's, Cutting Edge Raptors, Nosler Accubonds, E-Tips and Partitions, and others. Might even call Bergers premium bullets, because they act a little differently than the others listed above.

Hard to go wrong with any of today's bullets if they're used with some understanding of the ways various bullets work and can be applied. Which is why its often amusing to read very firm opinion about how one bullet or another is the absolute answer for every kind of big game hunting.

I wish that hunters and reloaders would take this to heart.

When I used to conduct reloading clinics, bullet selection always seemed to be a hot topic of discussion - but for the wrong reasons. It was usually difficult to convince people to think more about what they were shooting at, and the expected distance of encounter. I was often surprised by the number of people that did not think about high percentage shots.

Too many of them played the 'what if' game. IOW, the 1% became the main event or premier concern. It was hard for some to accept that they should be building their loads according to what's almost certainly going to happen, not the 1%.

You cannot cover every base - unless you are lucky enough to work up loads using different bullets that all shoot to the same point of aim.

Learn to pass on bad situations. Don't use the bullet as an excuse to take a marginal or poor percentage shot. And then there's the big one - know your own limitations.

This is an interesting link showing bullet performance in conjunction with velocity. It is a bit dated and does not have some of the most current bullets such as the Barnes TTSX, but it still is a very interesting comparison.

http://stevespages.com/jpg/bestbullet.jpg

To me, the "premium" bullets are best when the chambering used is less than optimal (marginal) for the game being hunted. This would include the .24 and .25 caliber cartridges on any big game, the .270 (or smaller) on elk size game and the .30-06 on elk or bigger game. The premiums also aren't a bad idea with any chambering on game such as moose or big bears.

It's not that you can't take animals in these size ranges with cup-and-core bullets, but with a marginal chambering you have very little margin for error on a shot that is not exactly placed....or a severely angled shot that has to penetrate 12-24" (possibly through bone) to reach the vitals. The premium bullets penetrate better and give you just a bit more advantage on such shots (and I believe in all the advantage you can get....as haggle said, "prepare for the worst, not the perfect shot").

The Nosler Partition is the premium bullet all others are judged by as it expands well on rib shots, but the rear partition continues to penetrate. I have had good experiences with the bonded bullets, but they don't tend to expand as well on light game such as deer with broadside shots.

I know they are popular now, but my experiences with the various "alphabet" mono-metal bullets has not been so good. I tried the original "X" bullets and found that they were unpredictable. As long as striking velocity was kept pretty high, they expanded....most of the time. Let the velocity drop much below 2900 fps and they often tended to not expand and "pencil" through. Occasionally this would occur even when velocity was higher at close range.

Penetration was great, but the wound channel was smaller than I prefer. This can be a real problem as most who sing the praises of the "alphabet" bullets tend to use lighter weight bullets to "flatten trajectory" making longer range shots easier. Long range is the last place I'd want a mono-metal bullet as striking velocity is almost sure to fall below the level where expansion is reliable.

Mono-metal bullets (in my experience) are at their best at relatively close ranges (250 yards or so) in very high velocity (magnum) rounds....and even then they "fail" more often than I am willing to accept. Others may have better experience with these bullets, but they aren't for me.

Cup-and-core bullets (the best of them suck as the Remington Core-lokt and Hornady interlock) are great on everything from elk down and no premiums are "needed". I would suggest a slightly heavy-for-caliber bullet be used to gain a bit of penetration....such as a 150 grain bullet in the .270 or a 165 grin in the .30-06

..... esp for deer hunting.

I've loaded TSX in my 22/250 for deer, but no other chambering.

Stouter construction may help on the bigger stuff, but I wouldn't agree that there is no trade-off for smaller stuff. By way of example I shot a number of water buffalo with the Woodleigh 286 gn PP in my 9.3x74R, and they worked well, but the same bullet on several large pigs worked quite poorly really, penciling through with minimal expansion. It didn't kill nearly as well as the 220gn CorLokt I used in a borrowed .30/06 on the same trip, on much the same shots. Side-by-side comparison with Woodleigh's 286gn RN in the same calibre suggested that it would have been a better choice too, working well on both a couple of dozen buffalo and about that many big pigs - perhaps better matched to the velocity.

FWIW for the general run of deer and pigs and goats I hunt I happily use fairly soft bullets, simply because of how well they work for me. For my .30/06 for example I generally use Winchester's 150 gn Power Point, which not only shoots very accurately in my rifle but kills well on this sort of game. I remember one day for example when I took 21 pigs with 22 rounds - the extra one probably not needed but used to finish the only pig still moving after being hit. This load has also dropped quite a number of deer in their tracks. I use a similar bullet in other calibres, with similar results.

True.

Check this link.

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/articlegad.html

DF

Very interesting read DF.

I don't think I'd get into many arguments over a guys choice of bullets. I think they all have their place.

I like the usually quicker kills with the softer bullets and I've never lost any sleep over a few pounds of bloodshot meat.

Have seen both sides.

My first trip to South Africa is a pretty good example. I made 14 consecutive 1 shot kills with 180 grain Remington Corelocks, up to kudu, gemsbuck and zebra, loaded to 3100. We never lost sight of one animal.

A friend shot about the same number of animals with the original Barnes X out of a 7 STW.

I seemed that we hunted more after the shot than before it unless he hit bone on the entrance side.

I'm betting that the TSX, TTSX and their like preform better now but that 10 days left a pretty bad impression, although hitting bone on the entrance side sure changed things up.

The newer mono-metals seem to open and create good wound channels, especially if you're pushing them fast.

With my 26 Nos project, I can't tell the difference in kill effectiveness and wound channels between the 120 gr. E-Tip at 3.450 fps and NPT/NAB 140's at 3,300 fps.

I don't think I'd choose mono-metals for a conventional round pushing bullets at 2,650 or so. To me, those rounds do very well with cup and core; my 6.5x55 Shilen/Mauser really likes 139 Scenars at 2,650 fps.

To me it's an art, picking an optimal bullet for a particular round and the critter being hunted.

DF

Dirtfarmer nice link thanks. It reflects my experience with premium bullets on deer they seem to stay on their feet a little longer then with C&C bullets. I have also not noticed a lot of difference in killing power with different cals. 243 on up.If you want your deer to drop in or near its tracks shot for the shoulders.

Yeah, the quarter bore advocates probably loved those data, as .25 cal. deer rifles seem to perform best.

I'm not a quarter bore fan and would retort with: "too small a sampling for statistical significance"...

The more subtle the difference in measured data, the larger the cohort necessary for a definitive conclusion.

There was a significant difference between how far deer ran, hit by soft vs. hard bullets, therefore the sampling size was probably sufficient for a conclusion.

It seems with Southern WT's, soft bullets kill quicker than hard bullets.

With bigger, tougher critters, I'm sure the results would be different, thus the art of selecting the most effective ammo for the game being hunted.

DF

I read that link and it makes sense to me. I rarely take shots beyond 200 yd. When we go moose hunting or chase whitetails, the distances are almost always less than 100 yd. Probably more like 50 to 75 yd.

While I like tight groups, I save them for varmint and target work ups. For hunting bigger critters, I am more concerned that the bullet is going to strike at a certain velocity. With 30/31 cal bullets for example, my limit is 1600 to 2300 fps. That takes in a lot of real estate before it runs out of steam. About 300 yd for pointy bullets. This means I don't worry about numbers. I just test for groups by shooting out to 200 yd. I realize that this wouldn't work for someone who hunts the plains however.

Most of my hunting is done in central or northern Ontario. With the exception of shooting over a beaver meadow or a timber cut, I'd never be able to manage more than about 100 yd anyway.

For the woods, cast bullets from a 30-30 or 45-70 are fine. I'm going to try a 444 with a 265 or 310 bullet this year I think. I only use cast bullets with a huge meplat, and I don't give a fig about BC, SD or the phases of the moon. Heavy and slow is fine for me.

In fact, I really don't care about BC, SD or the phases of the moon for any bullet. BC is just a number to see where my theoretical max, distance is on paper. For pointy bullets, that's always farther than me or my equipment can go.

I'm from the school that would rather slam a deer with a bulldozer, not a sports car. For hunting bullets, if I can cover a five shot group with my fist, it works. That's approx. 2x3. I don't waste a lot of time shooting endlessly at a bench unless I can figure a way to bring a bench out to a beaver meadow.

Certainly, others can do what they want. The above rules are simply what I use. Everyone to his own thing.

DF
Very true.
I have hunted in SC and never saw a deer bigger than my dog. .257 calibers would be ideal.