Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire We Don't Need No Stinking Unions!

See, it's either black or white for some. My anti-liberal posts run 10 to 1 on this board. You seem to think that one either has to be with the GOP or against them. I can fill this page with reasons not to vote democrat, but this is one of the few reasons I cannot give full support to the GOP. I have not voted for a democrat..well, I'm not sure if I ever have, but because I can't support a GOP that pulls this crap, Sam says I must be a liberal democrat.

Talk about sheep being led by their noses.

NAFTA destroyed about 8750000 direct manufacturing jobs.
If every manufacturing job supports 5 service sector jobs.
How many jobs did we loose?
Granted these jobs were not high skill jobs.But im thinking it beats the heck out of wally world.

CAFTA took direct aim at high tech tool and die and machinist positions.Loose the ability to make tooling.And you have to outsource it.

TPA will drive a stake through the heart of whats left of our manufacturing base.No suprise the raghead wants it..

Watching the party of Eisenhower,Goldwater and Reagan fall all over themselves trying to suck chi-com/asia itcho to get a higher stock price for there corporate masters.Is what the GOP is all about these days..

dave

Might as well, we brought them in to build the new Bay Bridge.

It's no longer union vs. non-union, it's American workers, American lifestyle, pitted against China.

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Chinese state firms are poised to be strong contenders in the race to make high-speed trains that will sprint between Los Angeles and San Francisco, part of a $68 billion project to bring the service to the United States for the first time.

Story

Damn...that might be a good ID...since we can't build a sumbeechin train what'll stay on the tracks!!

As I've said before and I'll say again. No matter if you're an hourly guy or a shirt and tie guy. If someone with no experience in your industry can replace you when you've got 5, 10, 15+ years on the job, you deserve what you got.

This is nothing new, staying competitive requires one to keep learning throughout their career and staying up on technology.

Whether it was wood workers transitioning from hand tools to power tools, a sheet rock hanger transitioning from hammer and nails to a screw shooter, or an office monkey transitioning from having a secretary type up his memo to using word and sending emails, you need to stay with the curve.

No matter the industry or job, the quality of ones work and reputation has always been the best guarantee of a continued meal ticket. Forfeiting one's responsibility in that regard to a union, political party or another has and will continue to put one in peril.

no, it's not 'all or nothing' in this case. You are stridently blasting Conservative economics, while twisting things, and showing your union propensity to side with the left on anything economic.

And I'll say it again, that may work until they go and import those willing to work for less. Is that your answer, those of us in the middle class should have our wages cut because desperate third world workers are willing to be imported to work for less, you justify that as the American economic model? Well then don't complain when somebody like Obama comes along and turns the masses against those who condone this and utilize it to get even higher profits at the cost of wages.

Uhhh, Bill Clinton signed NAFTA into law in 1993 when democrats controlled both the House and the Senate.

CAFTA was signed by George W. Bush when the GOP controlled both the House and the Senate.

The TPP-TPA bill is supported by Obama and the GOP which currently has both houses of congress.

Notice a pattern? Our new word for today boys and girls is OLIGARCHY defined as "a small group of people having control of a country, organization, or institution".

In our case instead of people it is corporations. The USA is a corporate oligarchy. They own both parties. They use issues like gun control, women's rights, sodomite rights, the environment, taxes, welfare, abortion, etc., to keep our minds occupied while they financially rape us.

Barkoff

you are right that the RINO s are schilling for the big corporations.....

But the big unions and the Democrat party are all in for unlimited immigration and a borderless nation

wages will NEVER go up as long as you got an unlimited supply of cheap labor coming from the bottom up.....that is an economic law of nature

which leaves the shrinking middle class truly screwed

You completely miss the point. If someone from a 3rd world country with no job skills and minimal ability to speak English can do your work, whose fault is that???

If you want a moderate to high paying job, you must gain and increase the skills needed throughout your career.

I have yet to meet a highly skilled individual in any field that has had trouble gaining employment and staying employed. Conversely I've yet to meat those who refuse to make themselves a benefit to their employer to go far.

You are ignoring history, for years the unions screamed about illegal immigration, even Cesar Chavez lobbied congress to do something, but big business stuffed enough pockets to keep the border open and the GOP either too stupid or too greedy could not see log term what it would do to their own party.

At his point what other choice do unions have but to make the illegals, legal, and sign them up, they apparently are not going anywhere. There was a time that some unions did throw support to Republicans, up until it became apparent that the GOP valued contributions over that of the middle class worker.

You completely miss the point, how do we with a higher standard of living compete with those having to live in huts? This is not something that has to be done, don't make it sound as if American corporations need this model to survive and compete, what does "record profits and stagnating wages" mean to you?

You're needed over on the Teamster Benefits Cuts thread.

Already there. What people cannot argue with is that I have worked in the same field for almost thirty years, I have worked both union and non-union, some would have me ignore my own experiences and opt to listen to Rush Limbaugh's theories on unions, but all as I know is that in union shops I was always paid better, and treated me better than those I worked non-union.
The union shops have always been more successful in spite of having union workers, so I'm not really seeing the problem with being paid better and having a good health plan and decent pension. Somehow Sam thinks he has stuck gold here showing how the union pensions are a bad deal, completely ignoring Wall Street manipulation that caused 401K's to tank a few years back. No pension plan is totally safe, the only safe retirement is rental property.

Not totally against what you are saying and be it known that the Teamsters ain't the only ones by a long shot that are going to take hits.

For instance, I would not want to be a state or local gov't employee in the coming years. e.g., If Chicago (known as Junk City for the worth of their bonds and debt) falls under the intended allowance to let municipalities go bankrupt, then more in Illinois will follow the new state law and the downward spiral for municipal workers will begin big time. Rape is the word.

Many, many Fortune 500 Co.s are way behind on their pension funding also, according to Bloomberg. Again, ain't just the Teamsters. many others are going to feel this sting in the coming years, union or not.

Provocative thread, Barkoff. Thanks.
I don't support anything like bringing in lots of guest workers or amnesty for illegals, and detest the fact that zillions of illegals have been invited/allowed in, and even supported with taxpayer $$, by our greedy politicians over the years. All of that spits in the face of citizens who have contributed so strongly to the bulding of our economy and who care about the future of this country. Not an easy situation to remedy, and politicians should not now be doing things to make it worse.

Long ago I gave up any hope that most labor unions would, or could, make sure that the unionized work force and such jobs would be protected by means of high standards and productivity. Most unions and their leaders don't live on such principles. You can go anywhere and find highly expert workers in almost any field who have never had a union card and never will, and easily find union situations where poorly performing members (lower skilled, or just bad workers?) are continually protected by their union. Today's union stamp does not guarantee anything like productivity or high performance - merely a semblance of power. This smacks of total failure, so maybe the political game with illegals is the only evenue left for parasitic union leadership.

As our kids were growing and learning, it seems that we hounded them to develop every promising talent, learn for themselves how to learn and to maximize every knowledge/skill opportunity, and later in life make themselves invaluable to their employers. At times along the way I wondered if I were being overbearing about such things. I do not wonder any more - and am grateful for the outcomes.

Now, before anyone starts up about my being blindly anti-union, please know that I have been a card-carrying member of three labor unions over the years, have seen the union style from the inside out, and also have watched a union cadre (one I never would join) sytematically undermine and weaken the structure and principles of public education in this country. In some locations where dominant, such unions have just about ruined the local schools. Yes, parental caring and involvement are sadly lacking in many such situations. But, why would the local "educational professionals" (as they call themselves) rob and plunder such school systems and make the problems worse rather than doing what excellent educators have been known to do elsewhere?

I am guilty along with many others - having lived and breathed free (and having made certain that our own kids experienced excellent educational circumstances and aimed for good careers) while observing this gradual and almost predictable degredation across the country. None of the above - the illegals, the loss of skilled labor and jobs, the corruption of unions, the failing schools that seem never to hit bottom - are going to be easy problems to fix. I cannot help but feel bad that I have not done more to avoid those losses, and sure hope that my kids and grandkids - and yours - will have and use what it takes to fix this mess.

Looks like the cleanup has to start with politics, but there are plenty of other arenas for improvement.

I'm speachless. You seem to imply that having a certain standard of living in and of itself is all that is required to maintain that standard of living???

That seems azz backwards from, what income will I require for given standard of living, what skills do I have to be employed for such compensation, and if my skill set isn't up to what is required for such compensation how can I gain those skills?

Employers have no right or duty to guarantee your standard of living. You need to have the skills required to make your employment profitable to them. If market conditions change to where you can no longer make them a profit, you can expect them to terminate your employment.

Hope you're being facetious.

This is the mentality you get when you drive a readymix truck and think the world owes you top dollar to do what a most anyone can do with minimal training.

Want to make more?
Take on the responsibility and buy your own truck.
Oh wait!
Unions probably have it fixed so a independent guy can't do that.

[bleep] unions!

Spot on. I was lost on his reply...