OK. I was involved in a discussion recently. A bunch of us easterners were hashing out various deer hunting related nonsense. Rifles,calibers,scopes. It seems there is an underlying thread through the whole "Out west" conundrum. Seems flat shooting rifles with high magnification glass are best suited to hunting out west. Yep. That's the skinny. So,here it is. How about all of our resident western deer hunters chime in. What is the average,longest,and shortest range you take mule deer at? A bunch of folks here think all mule deer are shot at no less than 300 yards. (Most have never been west of the Mississippi) I know I can count on the "Fire" to iron this out. They won't listen to me.

You'll generally have the potential for longer shots out west, but you don't need "high magnification glass" or magnum chamberings to make them. Just an accurate rifle/ammo. and more practice, especially in the wind.

Longest 400, shortest 30, average 150-200.

Funny

I've only hunted "out west" since 2008 and haven't shot past 250 yet.

Heck! My buddy drew Colorado moose and sheep tags and killed both under 100 yards.

My rifle of choice since 2008 is a 30-06 with a 3.5-10x40 V3

That's how everyone is around here too. You have to have a magnum rifle, a 50mm scope and a minimum o5 20x magnification.

Of course most people around here hunt deer in the eastern woods that way. I actually had a guy tell me that my .260 Rem wouldn't kill his deer, it wasn't powerful enough. We hunted about 2 miles apart, lol. He used a 375 H&H he traded a 340 Wby for because the Wby "didn't have enough ass either"

I will second what Smokepole said.


Unless you want to be part of the 'sniper hunter' gang you don't 'need' anything more than a standard chambering and a 6x or 3-9x scope.

99% of the time you'll be shooting at less than 400-500 yards.

Unless of course you purposely don't want to stalk in closer. Generally speaking there is usually enough cover to get within reasonable shooting distance.

Practice in the wind(so you'll know when not to shoot...).


I bet my average shot has also been right round 150-200 yards. Can think of only 3 deer that were over 400 yards.
(1 mule deer, 2 whitetail)


A 270 Winchester with a 6x(LR dots) is my favorite setup. Point and shoot out to about 400-450 yards.

I agree with Smokepole and Sam. The potential exists here and there but most shots will come at moderate distances where standard cartridges and modest scopes do fine.

I would say "fiction".

In 40+ years of killing mule deer from Alberta to New Mexico, my longest shot was about 500 yards on a big buck wounded by a companion. I have never reached beyond 400 yards for one of my own and many have been killed under 200. I have used a lot of different calibers but mostly a 270 and a 4X scope, although I have come to like a bit more scope power as I age. A 6x Leupold works great.

These bucks were killed with the 270 and one with the 280. Mine is in the middle and was spotted at 700-800 yards and stalked and killed at about 80 yards with a 270.

The other two were killed by my companions at about 350 yards...luck of the draw that time for them.

Killed this mule deer with a 7x57 and a old Weaver 4x scope. The range was about 110 yards.

My last 3 deer killed here in New Mexico averaged 100 yards.




Can do most (if not all) deer hunting here in the west with a .270 and a 6x scope.

In 55 years of Idaho mulie and elk hunting, my longest shot ever was about 350 yds. They average under 200. I've never yet seen one at 500 that I can't get a lot closer to.

Out west is a misnomer.

The real issue that started this was plains game in the west.

If you are hunting critters that use distance for safety, and you can bet your ass that Muledeer, lopes, and others use that... Well now you are in the zone for flat shooters.

now do all Muledeer and lopes ONLY use distance for protection - NO... But there are some guys who don't hunt them in coolies and other tree lines where it's hard to find them without knowing where they'll be. So the drive buy let's find them have roots both in the fact that the critters move miles (we have 1 square mile road quads in Kansas)... So you may have to drive 5-25 miles to find the game in one area if you use this method.

So - if you.. (YOU) are a "I want to drive spot & stalk" guy... And you are hunting distance types. Yes long teachers are the way it goes.

However if you live there, and know where they tend to Hyde, and know short shots are easier than long rails, plus you don't crush cash crops by hunting coolies and tree lines... We'll you'll hunt that way. Truthfully the guys who live thier know where the hidey holes are and tend to drive from spot to spot to find the big buck, then they walk in.

I.e. - in a huge fields type plains area, things are different and a guy can gain benefit from the 300 yard shot, because most those critters feel "ok" from 300 yards out.

Hence the "mystery" of why

I agree with Smoke and Ted. I've killed a lot more critters under 200 yards than over 200. It's all about whether you want to take the time to stalk the animal or just set up and blaze away. A couple of years ago I was up in area 7 in Wyoming with my buddy Mike Wakkuri elk hunting. We found a bunch of bulls on a cold, cold day a mile or so away. We got across the draw from them at about 500 yards or so. I was shooting a Rem 700 Alaskan Ti in 300 Win mag with a 4.5-14x40 Leupy CDS so I could have made that shot I believe but we decided to try to get closer. We got to about 300 or and ranged them again but then decided there was a way to get closer. We ended up at about 100 yards and all the bulls walked right by us when they got up. It was pretty cool and a hell of a stalk. Mike was just grinning from ear to ear. I guess depends on if you want to be a hunter or a shooter.

I'm in with Smokepole and Sammo.

Longest shot-400 yards

Shortest shot-12 feet

99% of other shots-200 yards or under.

Used iron sights or 4X scope on the vast majority. Older now so the 3x9 scope comes into play. Used all kinds of cartridges but if I were picking one specifically for western deer and antelope it would be a .243 with a 3x9 scope.( thats a plain scope...duplex reticle, no dots or turrets.)

Longest shot = 306 yards +/- a few. Shortest = 20 yards. Average is probably 100-150 yards. This is for mule deer, antelope, elk, moose in Idaho, Montana and Washington State, from 1972 through today.

Have shot at a few coyotes and what not way the hell out there but never at big game.

I hunt both sides of the Mississippi simply because I live so close to it. Haven't hunted west writ large for a long time. That said...

My favorite deer stand is technically in the east, being 50-60 miles east of the river. But, it commonly offers me shots that range from 25 feet to 600 yards. I frequently get to watch deer for long periods at 400-500 yards. I have never shot one from there past 300 though. That's more a matter of there being so many deer I get to pick and choose. What I set up to shoot from there and take one way out there should I choose mirrors what the others like Sam suggested. I have a 300 WM, a 270 and 30-06 all with 1.5-6x scopes and If I ever do take it in my head to drop one at 600 any one of them will do just fine. By far, the bigger problem for me is bullets. What works good at 25 feet gets marginal past 400 yards, and vice-versa.

I very often have dead calm conditions. When I do have any wind at all, the terrain produces conditions in which gauging wind drift is about impossible. 0-5 mph in one place might be 15-20 in another and those areas can switch very quickly as that wind direction changes. Basically, for me, that means I don't even consider longer shots until the last few minutes of legal shooting time, after the sun has set and the wind drops to zero and stays there.

Unlike out west, stalking closer to close the distance is not really an option. You can't move quietly enough for a long enough time moving through the woods to fool Bambi's ears. Watching deer on fields for fifty odd years has taught me that Bambi pretty well always knows which deer are where in the woods around them. Walking up on deer in the woods is easier. I suspect that mostly they either mistake you for another deer or more likely they just choose to be still and let you walk on by.

Post Script: I have shot 5 bulls in that hell hole with Mike over the years and watched him shoot one. The farthest bull was maybe 200 yards and the closest well under 100. Most were shot with a 300 WSM but could have been killed with anything from a 270 on up with a good bullet. I do know a guy in Idaho who uses a 243 on everything, has lived in the backcountry his whole life but picks his shots with a 100 grain bullet. It's all fun and games. A bull shot in the ass or the guts with a 375 Holland and Holland is still a bull shot in the ass or the guts.

Exactly!

Although the older I get, the further I tend to shoot. Crawling through the sagebrush and stickers ain't as much fun as it used to be.

Farthest mule deer for me was just under 300 yards. Farthest Coues whitetail was less than 200--maybe 185 or so. Most have been less. I have taken two at less than 70 yards.

My younger daughter has killed a mule deer at a little over 400, but most of her others were taken at less than 150 or so. Her longest whitetail was killed at just under 300. But, both of those long shots were the exception rather than the rule.

I had one guest hunter that killed a Coues whitetail at almost 500 yards with his .257 Weatherby. However, he was mobility impaired, and he practiced long shots expecting to be offered only long shots. Another experienced hunter shot a whitetail (running!) at well over 300 yards with a .264 Win Mag. I don't remember any other guests shooting either whitetails or mule deer much beyond 200 yards, and I don't remember any shooting one of the various magnum chamberings.

Our pronghorns have been taken at longer ranges, though--most over 200 yards, with one or two out to almost 400.

I will agree with Smokepole, SamO, BobinNH, Ingwe........Whew!

I became addicted to mule deer hunting the first time my dad took me, which was back in 1971 at age 11. Haven't missed a season (sometimes 2-3 different States in the same year) since.

The vast majority of my 41 muley bucks have been with a 3-9x or 3.5-10x scope, with the longest shot being 450yds, several under 100 yds, and the vast majority 120-175 yds.

I've become enamored with Leupy's CDS system the past few years, and busting targets at distance has become easy when the wind cooperates. However, my 4 biggest bucks, all taken since 2006, have all been shot in the 120-175 yd range as well.

I switched to a 4-12 scope this winter. I don't need it for long shots but my eyes aren't in the head of a 30 year old any more. It's easier to pick your shot when you can see what you're picking.

Good thing nobody tells bowhunters shots will be 250 yards.

Hunting is what you make of it. I decide what I want to shoot a deer with and go hunting. Long shots require flat shooters, close shots, not so much...

80 yards 45-70...



800 yards 30-378...



47 yards archery...

I have nothing against taking a long range poke, but that
sounds just about ideal.





You guys are looking at it all wrong. You're not getting older, you're getting smarter. RC, imagine the mistakes you'd be making if your eyes were in the head of a 30 year-old.

"A bull shot in the ass or the guts with a 375 Holland and Holland is still a bull shot in the ass or the guts."
yeah but , you can get Safariman to winch it out up to a mile!

longest shot 300 yards on a Blacktail. 375 Winchester. open sights. lobbed in like artillery rounds. closest 3 ft. 30-06. receiver sight as he passed on a trail. average 100-150
yards over the last 55 years. never been hunting east of Idaho. all west coast states.
only Magnum calibers used where 338win, 300win and those shots were 35, and 30 yards on elk.
learned by bow hunting you can get into the same zip code pretty easy

I'm getting much the same way RC.

Like what most are saying here, most shots are 100-300 yards if you are hunting big country out west. I think a lot of eastern hunters overthink the range issue. With range finders now it takes the guess out of the shot and gives you confidence. Judging distance was more of the problem than the shot distance.

Out west the furthest about 425 yds. Shortest around 4 yds in the same environment (Hells Canyon). I'd guess the more rugged and open terrain of the west would result in longer shots.

Growing up in the eastern(Va and WVa) forests and ag lands a hundred yds was a stretch.

Ditto

Longest on big-game - 785 meters
Shortest - 10 feet
90% of shots - under 300 yards

In open country long shots are commonly available but very rarely needed. It's too easy to get closer.

Rifles from 25-06 to 45-70, but mainly 30-06.
Shortest shot was 10yds, longest was 230yds.
Usual shot about 100yds.
But I'm a meat hunter, so whatever deer is legal goes in the freezer.

Mid 400s tend to be my average for mule deer.

I have had exactly one cow elk under 100 yards. She had terrible timing, and poked her head around a rise in a hill, less than 100 yards away.

In the last 20 or so elk and deer, other than the one described above, I have not shot a single one under 300 yards.

I won't discuss the ones in the 500+ yard range, as that tends to bring out the ignorance in "real hunters".

.308, or something else?

The only 'big' mule deer I saw last year was about 600-700 yards away and totally unaware that I was in the area. He was also on the move in the opposite direction but given the conditions many of the LR shooters here probably could have dropped him.

He lived to see another day and that is perfectly fine with me. Luckily we only have ourselves to please when it comes to hunting.

I've seen lots of "out west" style shooting. That means lots of shooting at big game "way out there" and not doing any hitting let alone killing.
Don't get me wrong. There are hunters that do or have killed big animals out beyond 300-400 yds. Even I have done that.
But to be truly effective at such shooting, one needs to pratice alot, that means alot more than I do, under the conditions one would face while doing such shooting. Something I can't do because I don't have the conditions present locally to do so.
While I do shoot/practice from field positions the all year, shooting 40-80 rds. once or twice a month up to 300 yds. simply isn't enough. E

I've killed a couple right around 360. Shortest was under 100. Most around 200 probably.

The biggest difference in western hunting is probably shooting quickly at weird angles/positions when out of breath.

I've had a few relatives from the east/south come to MT. The problems they had were quickly getting on game and shooting before the animal walked away.

Field practice is absolutely key. And becoming quick and deliberate when presented with the shot is also important if you're after a mature buck.


Don't rush the shot but you also don't want to dick around and miss the opportunity.



Basically what Bellydeep said as I was typing....grin

Great replys fellas. I should print this thread and pass it out to a few cronies. It isn't their fault really. This mindset has been handed down from past generations here. Like 30/30s bucking brush. Fast bullets not staying in deer long enough to do any damage. Old hunting camp tales die hard.

Speaking of 30-30's....my first big game rifle I owned at age 11 was a Marlin 336 topped with a Weaver K4. Whacked 6-7 muleys with it before "upgrading". It's now a hog crushing machine.

I guess I should also point out that my longest shots on critters were taken with 9x scopes, and Kimber and Tikka rifles. No 30" barrels or 15 lbs LR rigs. A fixed 6x or 10x scope, and an accurate sporter rifle with a good slickery bullet is perfectly capable in open country hunting.

Shortest shot- 20 feet
Longest shot- 200 yards+/-

Jordan, what is your favorite cartridge/bullet combo for deer/elk hunting?


260?

Sam,

Man, that's a tough question! Choosing a favourite cartridge/bullet is like asking me to choose which of my kids is my favourite.

There are so many good combinations, depending on terrain and hunting style, etc, but if I had to pick one for all my deer and elk hunting, it would likely be a 7-08 and 162AM at 2750 fps.

What bullet is your go-to in the .270? 140AB?

Not on deer , but antelope. Half have been inside 200yds. and half have been past 400 yds. Never have shot one in between those two distances. And all the ones passed 400 yds. were calculated and there was no wind. All the ones inside have been crawled up to until cover ran out. The 200-400 middle ground is where things go wrong for me. If the wind is calm , it is just as easy to shoot 450 as it is 300. If the wind is blowing it is easier to keep crawling.

You shoot more game in a year than I do in five otherwise I wouldn't have asked...grin


Yeah, 140 AB's(H4831sc). More worried about the powder than anything. Love H4350 and H4831sc.


Okay next question, what is your go to propellant for cold weather?


The last 2 whitetail were at -12F and -15F, both right at sunrise. Things can get weird below zero and +300 yards..

"Flat shooting" in terms of drop doesn't give a guy any advantage with today's scopes. Much more important to have a bullet that doesn't drift much in the wind. Scopes over 10x are unnecessary IMO.

My average shot seems to be much longer than almost everyone's on here.

H4831sc is one of the best I've seen in the .270 at low temps. Cold weather sensitivity seems to be quite dependent on application. I've seen surprisingly good results from powders that are not advertised as "Extreme". IMR4350, 7828ssc, the new'ish IMR4166, and TAC are some of my go-to's. So far, IMR4166 is magic pixie dust in my 7-08's.

Believe it or not, some of my longest shots in the coldest temp extremes have been taken with IMR4350. I think cartridge and bullet application has a big impact.

That's because everyone else knows how to put on a stalk. And that's because they are "real hunters"

Wind and lead on a moving target are tricky.

Not sure I would make the defining aspect 'Out West" or even 'deer'. I think if they said "hunt open country" then there would be more opportunity to make use of that type of rifle on any species.
I'm sure you could make a mule deer hunt become longer shots by concentrating on those open areas but probably no need to.
I typically hunt thicker cover and all my mule deer have been short shots.

Maybe what the easterners are getting at is the 'hunt whitetail in the creekbeds' but 'glass for mule deer from the ridgeline' sort of rule of thumb or old adage. Maybe that 300+ thing applies better if you consider it that way but then prairie or rolling hills would still mean open country for me moreso than 'west'.

Vast majority of my BG hunting is with a .308, though I also am a big proponent of the .300 WM.

When the ranges extend into the 5s and above, I prefer the .300.



The .308 is so easy to shoot well, and I have a fair amount of trigger time with one, both for work and recreational purposes.

When you spent that much time working with, shooting in various conditions, training, and learning to make wind calls, it only makes sense to stick with it.

I know it causes some to have serious fits of the vapors and other such things, but I have killed a BUNCH of animals with a 175 grain Sierra Match King.

I don't use them much any more in the game fields, but I can attest to the fact that not one single animal ever needed a second shot.

These days the 155 Scenar gets the nod.

Screw the wind.....I like gettin' close......

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If you have ever bow hunted an elk, a mule deer, an animalope, or bighorn sheep it kind of teaches you what is possible. Makes rifle hunting a lot easier. You can usually get closer even on an antelope. That being said it is a lot of fun to get out the 257 Roy on a goat hunt.

I'd probably recommend for a new guy hunting open country, to buy the best binoculars he can afford. Most any typical deer cartridge a guy has on hand can reliably kill muleys anywhere they're found.

You can/should "wear out" a pair of binoculars, and/or your eyeballs hunting open country.

Knew someone would say that...grin

Put an hour long stalk on a turkey this spring that ended with him dying at 15 yards this spring, if Nebraska counts as "out west."

The latest craze is counting coup on a buck.


Watch him grow from birth(on private property) and wait until he hits prime antler growth.

Then take the trophy shots(20 or 950 yards depending).

Doesn't count. It was a bird.

Damn!

Having grown up in the west, I've seen lots of different types of firearms used for hunting mule deer. Everything from a Winchester lever action .25-20 to .30-378 Wthby. But for the most part 90% of the hunters I knew used something along the lines of a .30-30, .243, .300 Savage, .25-06 or .30-06. Nothing too exotic.

I bought a Ruger M77r in .30-06 when I was 16 and it has served me well. It has a 4 power Weaver K4 scope on it. I've hunted Utah, Nevada and Idaho for mule deer with it. I don't ever recall having to shoot over 200 yards. Most were under 70 yards.

Same thing for Elk In Utah and Nevada. Nothing over 200 yards with the grand daddy .30-06.

Here in Arizona, I've taken white tail with the same .30-06 at less than 200 yards. BUT.. I've also taken one white tail at 500 yards with a Walmart Winchester Ranger M70 7mm Rem Mag and hand loaded 140gr Nosler at 3200 fps. Just about the ugliest sporting rifle I own. But, it shoots okay.

My strangest use of rifle for deer was a big magnum in Hoonah, AK. I used a .338 Win Mag for their itty bitty black tails. They work very well. Lung shots put them down and no meat damage. Why the BIG magnum? When you shoot, it's like ringing a dinner bell for the bears. And there are LOTS-o-BEARS on Chichagof Island.

I call this one a Myth- BUSTED ! I've seen more deer harvested with .243's and .30-06's than just about anything else.

The terrain I've hunted has dictated what's been required for me.
My hunting has only been in Colorado and Nebraska but the landscape has varied from close range in downed timber on steep slopes to sagebrush pooltables.
Archery, leverguns and muzzleloaders works well in some of that country but I have a couple options for the rolling sagebrush and grassland as well.

Every year it's an important question, What's the terrain?

Longest shot on mule deer was 560 yards with a .270 Win, shortest was 15 yards with a .50 caliber ML and patched round ball. 99% of my elk and deer are shot under 200 yards, pronghorn under 300. Even in open country you can usually find a terrain feature of some sort to help you get close, even if it is only a fence line full of tumble weeds, a clump of sage, or a soap weed. It's all about how hard you're willing to work to get close.

Starsky that's because where you and Tanner hunt there aren't any trees...

I'd say my average is way under 200. Longest is in the low 300s (I think 319 if I remember right). Shortest about 10.
Mule deer aren't too difficult to stalk in anything other than short grass prairie.

The popularity of magnums out west has as much to do with elk hunting as anything.

My favorite mule deer rifle is a .25-06 Remington 700 CDL, topped by a 6x Leupoold, flinging 115 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips at 3120 fps. Zeroed at 300 yards.

But I've also used a .50 cal traditional muzzle loader and a .44 mag handgun. As well as other modern rifles.

Shots have ranged from roughly 20 yards to 400 yards, with the average likely around 200 yards or so.

Get good with your rifle. Be in decent shape, and come on out to tag a good muley buck!

Regards, Guy

Very true and pretty much the same in my area.

When my kids started hunting, I figured 250 was as far as I wanted them shooting when we went after mule deer bucks. The most enjoyable and memorable part of their first several buck kills was the stalking and sneaking to get within their range. In every case, even with novice hunters, we were able to turn what could have been 350-450 shots into sub 220 yard shots. In some cases we stalked bucks just to get within their 250 yard limit just to see if we could do it, but passed looking for something a bit better.

Longest shot - 400 yards give or take with a 30-06. Closest was 30 yards with a 30-30 Marlin. Most have been between 125-200 yards for me.

I'd say my average shot at deer is under 200.
Antelope is probably closer to 350, but that is because of their chosen habitat in these parts. As was previously stated, they use distance for defense, and have not yet adapted to modern firearms, so they are quite comfortable with people at that distance.
Elk average under 300, with plenty of opportunity for longer shots.
I use standard calibers, 270, 280 or 6mm Rem, mostly, but do use a couple of .264 WM's. Usually 6x scopes and 10x binocs.
One thing I have noticed is that kids seem to prefer longer shots. Probably has something to do with hunting from quads, and pushing animals further in front of themselves.

Here it really depends on which unit you put in for. I've hunted the canyons where you have nothing to hide you. Sneaking up on something is almost impossible. I'll sit and wait in the rocks for a whole day if I have to, until something good comes along:



Longest 1 shot kill in this canyon was 690 yards (648 with angle comp on), second longest 1 shot kill in this canyon was 600 yards with angle comp on. With these shots, I was using a very accurate 300 wsm and 7mm rem mag. I wouldn't shoot a big game animal at this distance if it didn't shoot like this:


I've spent a lot of time shooting past 850 yards, or I wouldn't even attempt a 648 yard shot on a big game animal. I also grew up in Nevada where I took many 500+ yard shots on yotes, deer and jackrabbits. Practice is where it's at:






Now, where I hunt elk in the timber, it is totally different. My shots average 85 yards...

I've been hunting mulies in Oregon for 30-some years. Lots of bucks, I've been very fortunate. Like others have said, there's wide open country and there's tight lodgepole, both hold deer.

Longest shot 425, but that's the only one over 300.

Waaaay more under 200 than over.

.30-06 mainly, 7mm-08 more recently. 6x scope. One .348.






P

About 20 years ago a Navy buddy of mine wanted to come to Montana and hunt antelope. Having no rifles, he asked me what to buy. I told him to get a good 30-06 with a Leupold Vari X III in 2.5 x8. He got a stainless Ruger in 30-06 and a 6.5x20 or some such because the gun dealer in Memphis told him he wouldn't be able to hit antelope 'way out there' with 'only' a 2.5 x8.

He shot his antelope at about 130 yards.

I think my longest shot was 358 long paces and if I hadn't screwed the pooch on the first shot at 200 yards my longest would be considerably less. I primarily hunt deer and antelope in the broken country in south east Montana and it is usually pretty easy to get fairly close. My closest shot was also an antelope at 37 paces. I've shot several deer and antelope at less than a 100, but most in that country seem to be between 150-225; pretty rarely more than that for me.

The opportunity for long shots is always there, but if you study the situation, you can almost always get closer, at least in my limited experience anyway. YMMV.

Hunted WA, OR, and ID with a rifle and my closest was about 20 yards, longest 430, average around 170. I'm sticking with a fixed 6x since most of my shooting was done around 5-6x anyway

Amazing bucks. Man, what a day that must have been!

A veritable "truckload of deer."

I have taken Mule Deer bucks from 30 ft to pushing 400 yards. The 30ft one was with a .284 Winchester with a 2-7X scope and the longer with a 30-06 and a 3-9x scope and 7mm Rem Mag with 3-9x scope.

The longest range finder shot I can recall was an antelope with a 270 Win and a 3-9x scope. 360 yards.

These were unwounded deer. I have stretched it on wounded deer.

I don't think I have shot over 150 yards on whitetail.

When I was young there were people using 308 Savage 99s while hunting the breaks. Heck we used 30-30's too since that was what we had. We always got our winter meat.

Arns: Yes that was a good time! We actually killed them over 3 days, but two on the same day.

That picture was taken when we packed them from the barn into the truck for the trip to the butcher.


Here's a little better picture of the racks after we got the heads off at the butchers. That 3x3 was a very large, old deer.

Be sure to hang it 10' up in a tree so predators can't get it.
I read that a lot by those who've never hunted the west.

FWIW here is probably my best.....taken with a 7x57 at 75 yards with a 4x scope...

Ingwe: Beauty!

With a 7x57! What a surprise!!

Killed more deer with a 7x57 that with anything else. Our elk season runs concurrent with deer,so if I was in country with both, I packed the big gun.


Another 7x57 victim...





and another....





And Ingwewifes best...100 yards, .30-06




Both of mine were taken with a Leupold 1.5-5X VX-III

Hers was a VX-2 in 1-4X

Ha! Very nice Grasshopper!

You really have to love this stuff, no!?

I love "KISS"!

I had a damned good run Bob...too old to climb the hills and drag the beasts back down now!

Another 7x57 buck for you Bob....little scope again.





The 7x57 / Leupold 1x4 combo even worked in open country for antelope...





Love that country....

Beautiful animals.
You animal.

When I was younger I used to just run them down, jump on their backs and sink my teeth into their necks......

Ingwe/Bobin.....love seeing the pics. Very nice animals too.

Great pictures fellas! Great bucks..

Inge: Nice! I do love this stuff!

We've used scopes from 4-12,3.5-10,3-9,2-7 and anymore the wife and I both just prefer a straight 6x scope. Our ranges that we have killed animals are from 30 yards to 450 but typically are from 200-300. You don't need a high power scope for hunting out west. Heres a few victims of low power scopes.


90 yards 3-9


If I remember right about 120 yards 3.5-10


Right at 300 yards. 3-9


430 yards with 6x


450 yards 6x scope


200 yards 6x

50 yards 3-9


Hell it can even be done without a scope. 40 yards


43 yards

On one thread I remember seeing Shrapnel holding the foot of an antelope and it had the other three feet on the ground and he was holding some kind of rifle. He stated the .243 was not effective!!!!!

Good looking bucks there laker.

JG thanks!


Laker that muley looks like a very old buck!

Great pictures Laker... I'm slowly coming around to the straight 6X myself. Haven't found it lacking in the least yet.

The last mule deer I shot was 270 yards-lasered.

I Wyoming, where I do most of my pronghorn and deer hunting for over the last 30+ years, I would say the average shot is 200 yards. I've shot over 300 only once, and under 200 several times.

I would say an average of 300 is high.

I limit myself to 300yds. But I'm a stunt shooter. I use a 250 savage with 100gr interlocks, and either a straight 6 or a 3x9 usually set on 3. I keep forgetting to crank it up at the moment of truth. I put a second shot on a doe antelope at just over 400yds once. She was dead on her feet from the first shot at 200 but she was having a hard time getting the memo that she'd been killed. The second shot convinced her!

I've been killing Deer, Elk, Antelope and One Sheep in MT and OR since '59. Only the Sheep was taken past 300 yards. Most everything else was 100 yards or less. A few were 150-250.

I've used mainly (on Mule and Whitetail Deer) a .308, a 7 Rem Mag, a .270 and for the last 20 years, a 6MM-06.

The biggest scope I've used on big game is a 3x9x40.

When I was growing up on the plains of MT, the .270 was very popular -- still is. If you lived on the West side of the Continental Divide you more likely had an '06. Pretty much everyone had a 2 1/2 or 4 power scope.

Last year my Nephew's son missed an Antelope Doe several times with his .338 RUM. Maybe times are changing.

My experience as well.

"Out West" can mean many different environments, but as was stated earlier, the potential for long shots is very real.

I will echo what most of my fellow "westerners" have said herein. However, if you want to go hunt in the west in Alaska, with our little buddy, you will need to set yourself up to be able to take 1 to 2000 yard shots. Anything else, you're wasting your money no matter what your personal interests and needs are. If you don't believe me, just ask a couple of his regular sycophants.

Never before believed in the notion that men get better looking as they age !

Guess you can learn something new everywhere, even the campfire.

Good shooting! My daughter and I shoot in a local 400 yd deer target match. That's a pretty good poke. The 250/3000 is a cool round.

Since this is ingwe we're talking about, I have to ask--better than what?

Thanks! I'd have never tried it for a first shot.

That's probably close, but I'm not sure about "better?"

Maybe a tossup.

Interesting thread,considering some of the first long range shooting and hunting was done in Coudersport and Williamsport ,PA.I can remember hunting in Clinton County PA back in the 50's when guys were using 308 Norma Mags shooting across valleys at whitetails.I do believe there is still competition of that sort still in that local today.

They have several long range shoots in Pa. I have never been to the original thousand yard benchrest club, but they have long range shoots in Ridgeway.. They are still shooting from mountain to mountain is some of that country.. Saw one group shooting a .30-378.. When I was a kid, my older friends were shooting deer up to 1000 yards, and some of the shot chucks to 1200!! Long range stuff is nothing new..

I'm pretty sure there are a few handfuls of bison from years passed that would agree that LR hunting and shooting is nothing new

Throw in coues deer and the game changes.

+1

Where I hunt in Colorado we can spot Elk & Mule Deer out to 700+ yards but will stalk to under 300 yards and many times at 200 or less.

I hunt with either a either a 25-06 or 30-06 both using 3.5-10x42 Z3 with BRH and practice to 500+ yards.

For years I hunted with a FX-II 6x36mm LR and have one on my .260 REM for this years hunts, again it means lots of practice at the range and a good range finder.

Some is fiction but for Easterners seeing deer, elk and antelope at several hundred yards because of wide open terrain is quite different from thick woods hunting.

My farthest deer are a handful just over 300 yards but if you throw in elk it goes out to 550 yards and as close as 11 yards. We hunt close to a couple of private ranches that hate public land hunters so I shoot a 300 Weatherby these days with with a 3-15x 50 Zeiss so I've got the big magnum and big scope stereotype and we practice to 800 yards from field positions just in case a shot cross canyon is available. One of the canyons is almost 400 yards wide private land with public on both sides so any legal shot is over 400.

If we hunt woods nearby the shots drop to under 150 yards. Throwing out my closest and farthest elk my average shot is about 250-275 yards. Deer would be at the low end of that range. A good rangefinder is a good investment.

That's a pretty insightful post specneeds. The high,low,and average yardage,and why they are what they are. Ditto on the rangefinder.

I've lived and hunted in the west all my life. First off; conditions in the west might be bald ass prairie,endless stubble fields, swamp, foot-hills, mountainous, sage brush flats, brushy coulies,desert, coastal rainforest, mixed forest parkland or solid coniferous forest. On a good day you might hunt 2 or 3 or more of them. Ranges can vary from zero to whatever you are capable of doing. Opportunities for extreme range are also there if you are so inclined.

Not gearing and training up for 500 yards, or not being able to make a fast offhand at closer ranges are equally able to cost you a first class opportunity. It just sort of depends on where you're standing at the moment. Then there's wildly differing game sizes, and how much if any handicap you are willing to accept in equipment. Factor in your shooting ability, personal objectives and current degree of rifle lunacy.

Luckily, it doesn't take much. Zero to 500 yard general purpose hunting rifles are a dime a dozen, as are scopes ranging from about 3-9 to 5-15. Its probably left around 6 most of the time anyway. You sure see a boatload of 7 and 300 Mags, but the local enthusiasts might show up with just about anything. In my circle of friends the STW is more common than the Rem Mag. .300 Wins are very popular with serious hunters who don't neccessarily think about guns every waking moment. The Weatherby calibers have a definite following.

+1 Well said.

It is well said. As my early western hunts piled up, one thing I noticed about visiting hunters was that many blew the exact chances Model 70Guy describes. They had chances and lost them. Many were flummoxed by distance.

But the bottom line was they were lousy shots.

It's more funner to get up close and personal.

Both elk and deer...the longest was 550 the shortest..not sure maybe 20 ft. But the average is right around 200yards. Seems that the elk were often taken at longer range compared to deer.
Shot several whitetail in Idaho 50 to 100 yards.

Lefty C

+1

LC

Except for a TI 260 & 3x9 cds for backpack hunting I prefer mags and high x glass.

Everyone knows that you need a 338 Super Pooper +P+ with a 11 X 44 X 100 MM Hubble scope with built in range finder and unlimited windage and elevation turrets allowing you to precisely place bullets at two miles plus.I prefer the new 400 grain Super Dynamic bullet with a BC of 1000 plus and Sectional Density right at 500 for proper penetration.I have the whole set up tied into my Super Smart phone.I don`t even have to leave my Man Cave to kill a Buck at 2 miles plus.Anyone who does not hunt like this is just a wanna be.Huntz

[quote=SamOlson]
A 270 Winchester with a 6x(LR dots) is my favorite setup. Point and shoot out to about 400-450 yards. [quote]

I'm at a hospital w/my elderly Aunt and am just now reading this thread.

Sammy + 4 on what you said.

I sincerely wish that more shooters here understood that. It does work.


Jerry

Xactly - I'm 66 so IKWYM.

Here we have a 3 point/1 side law and 8-12 X comes in handy sometimes.

I've killed a few older bucks that you couldn't see the 3rd point at low magnification.

Jerry

Seems like binoculars are more prudent to use when looking at deer heads than the scope on a rifle

saddlesore,



What power binocular do you use?!

Where I hunted a couple years ago was a three point or better area. I found two deer with my 8X binoculars. I am not always a trophy hunter so I took the first legal deer I found. My scope was a 5-25X52. In order to see the third point I had to turn it up to 25X.

Earlier that year I hunted in a different state and was trophy hunting because I had more time. I found a deer with my binoculars but could not tell if it had four points on both sides, but could tell the antlers were wider than the ears. Up came the scope. When it was on 12X I could tell there were four points on each side and fired.

ringman -- Thank You.

Jerry

I have a sincere question. When you have identified a deer PLUS a buck with antlers....

what is imprudent about scoping it?

I may NOT know if I want to shoot it or not but it is a deer with antlers. If/when the legal points are determined it is time to shoot. If not, drop the sight off the animal.

Here is a buck. How many points can you see? and I'm standing only feet away from it.


This 6 pt weighed 175-178 lbs and had 17 1/2" inside spread. W/o seeing a 3rd point on 1 side, it would have been illegal for me to shoot.

He was pushing a doe in a cutover about 389 yds away. I turned the scope up, and still had to wait for him to turn his head JUST right to see a 3 rd point.

Jerry




ps: I've discussed this scenario too many times before and I 'm not going to argue with anyone about it.

I encountered this "out west" concept myself, back in Michigan. Having lived all over the country, I found it pretty pretty funny how the guys talking about "out west" seemed to think that meant one particular type of terrain.

Here in the coastal mountains on the west coast, all of my deer have been shot inside 50 yards. I've averaged longer distance shots back in the southeast than in this coastal region.

Out of curiosity, how far 'out west' do you have to get before an eastern 6 pt becomes a western 3x3?

Obviously, further west.

Well.... I'm at least West of the Big River.

Ringman is from Oregon.... so.....

Close/far isn't limited to geographical location. Scope choice is personal preference choice.


Jerry

I could get by with a 4-12X in the local place where I hunt. Twelve power is the magnification I needed a couple years ago to make out the points on this buck in the conditions that morning.

Fiction

To an Easterner,it starts in places like Nebraska, Kansas,Oklahoma,and Texas that start to "look" like the west.

Did you have one in the chamber to not miss that opportunity?

ironbender,

When I hunt there is always one in the chamber with the safety on. The safety is switched off on the way to my shoulder. The deer was walking toward some brush that joind the woods about my level. I already determined the antlers were wider than the ears with the binoculars.

Bob Hagel would have been proud. He said take the available shot. By the time I turned up the scope to 12X and saw four on both sides all that was visable was the right flank and back leg. The buck was angling away so I fired right in front of the right back leg. The GSCustom 85HV left the muzzle at 3,919feet per second and exited behind the left shoulder. The deers momentom carried it out of sight. I was ready to wait for several hours before I disturbed it because I didn't know how badly it was hit.

After about two minutes it charged out of the bush dragging its hand legs down hill as fast as a man can run. I put another thrugh the ribs as it went by below me. That one exited where the elbow covers it. You can see them in the photo.

I have lived in the east and west and the places you listed all look like a billiard table to me!!!!!!!

Yup and it gets dryer with short grass prairie,sage brush,tumble weed and stuff like that.Nothing like that back East. To me that's the beginning of the West.Also pretty sure thats the beginning of mule deer country,no?

[img:center]http://[/img]

mudhen, that's a good map, but I have a question for you regarding the mule deer found in the W TX sandhills that hug the TX/NM line....not even highlighted on this map (gray).

What supspecies are they in your opinion? They are much larger bodied than any mule deer herd found to the N, S, or W. The first one seen out here by a huge landowner here, a friend of my dad's, was in 1971. Where did they come from and how did they get here?

Ben yeah that's kind of what I'm talking about. I figure if it's got mule deer, it's the west!

JG, I don't know the answer to your question, for sure, but I would bet that taxonomists would place them in the Rocky Mountain mule deer subspecies. The Rockies are the biggest of the designated subspecies, and I have seen and measured some very large-bodied mule deer in western Nebraska and western Kansas. Lower elevations mean longer growing seasons and milder winters, both of which help to maximize growth and body size. Then there are also the effects of harsher winters in the northern parts of a species range, where large body size and smaller appendages become a means of minimizing heat loss to very cold winter temperatures.

Biologists don't pay as much attention to subspecies as they used to when naming new taxa was a game that everyone played. For populations that are not physically isolated from one another, there are really no definable lines where one subspecies starts and another ends. We tend to think of differences among populations in terms of ecotypes--subpopulations of animals that have become adapted over time to be successful in particular habitats. The differences probably result from some genetic variation as well as the effects of soils, climate, and vegetation acting on the the individual animals which make up the population as a whole.

Excellent, thank you sir. Your friend Ernie Davis has the same inclination...Rocky Mtn variety.

How far were the deer from you?

I took this pic of a bull at 1/2 mile. My camera has a 30x zoom and the 1st pic is at 30x. The 2d is approx what is on the camera screen when I blow that up another 16x. It's clearer on the camera as the computer monitor plus Photobucket hash the quality. In real life I would be able to more or less count the points if this was a deer at 1/2 mile.
I always have my camera with me. A small tripod helps a lot and is a lot lighter than a spotting scope.

Huntz,



The first one mentioned was hundreds of yards away during mid-day with the sun shining. You can see the third point is not very visible. The second one was less than 100 yards away in a misty fog of the early morning. We've all heard a shot early on opening morning. I got the trophy in a previous photo at 8:15AM on opening morning. I have proven to anyone who will try it that when you want to see more detail in low light turn up the magnification of your scope. It will work for Easterner also.

Interesting thread. I say a little bit fact and fiction.

I'm planning to hunt a burn this year for blacktail. There is timber left in the burn which can be still hunted and I'd prefer a light rifle for that. There are also 1500yrd shots available (Too long for me). It has a lot of steep canyons. If you see a nice buck on the next ridge over, you may not have enough time to stalk him. I plan on taking a magnum and sacrificing a little bit on the snap shots (Wish I had a nice 6.5, but I don't).

The last several years I've bow or muzzleloaded at least 50% of the time.

I've killed elk from 6 ft to 426yrds (Longest shot on big game so far). Most deer have been under 350. I hunt blacktail more than mulies. I'd still recommend being prepared for long shots, at least if you're trophy hunting.

I know a guy who has killed his last 4 of 5 bulls at over 400yrds.

Not picking a fight nor picking on anyone. Observations around the Campfire. LOL

Out West it stays light longer. LOL

The West is wide open spaces of grass and sage. LOL

It is unethical to direct your rifle at a buck during buck season. LOL

A 6x scope is in no way a detriment in the brush. LOL

20X recommended minimum for Blacktails. LOL

Oklahoma is West. LOL

A three-point may be an eight-pointer. LOL

Whitetail means Eastern deer. LOL

Elk hunting is spot and stalk. LOL

Deer Camp is a house. LOL

The West is lightly populated. LOL

Wild horses. LOL

Pretty well covers it.


Jerry

Because of the screwy time zone boundary, in so. Idaho it actually does. You have to get your sleep while it's dark longer in the morning.

Does here too.


And a 3 point could never be an eight point..... unless you are from back east and count brow tines....and even then, it would be termed "an eight pointer"....


i.e. This would be a four point mule deer...




This would be a three point whitetail...




The only thing you count brow tines are is elk....this would be a five point...

Just a question , but why do Native westerners not count brow tines on deer???? Boone and crockett does and not all mulies with nice racks have them so why not include everything the deer grew?????

I honestly wish I knew the answer.....

Here's a double negative. I don't not count the brow tine.

Here we'd call that MD a 5x5, and the WT a 4x4.

That is a NICE mule deer Poobs!

Got that one when I was obviously younger, still just as obvious it wore my ass out! Used to love hunting the big ones!

They are fun.




These 2 stooges got lost and were down on the river bottom last week.




Yearling twins?

That is in fact a very nice 10 point muley buck!

As far as staying light longer,I know in muzzle loader season in September,there is a lot more day left at the end of me

I thought you said you lived in WESTTexas......

Yeah, and being on the top of a high ridge at 1st shooting light isn't nearly as much fun as it used to be either.

Why I love Maine during the rut...you never kill them until at least 8:30 to 10 AM in the morning. Those bucks move all day then.

Mule deer aren't found in numbers even remotely approaching eastern whitetail numbers. As a result, years ago Idaho moved the hunting season dates forward a few weeks to avoid the rut. Except for a few small hunts, we can't hunt them during the rut.

Rock chuck Maine and northern New England whitetail numbers are actually low density,and not numerous compared to states like much of New York, PA etc.

But the state has a lot of unoccupied wilderness type country, big woods, rough winters, mountains etc. Even though densities are low the bucks will move a lot in big country during the day;mostly there is no one around....

We do not have crowded hunting conditions in Northern New England and success rates on a mature buck are well under 10%. Hunting during the rut does no harm.

I have done some rut hunting for mule deer.....they seem to lose all caution and are a bit too easy with a CF rifle,although I guess not always.

3.5 year old bucks of either species can get pretty stupid here in MT during the rut. The older ones are pretty smart usually. I don't think one is easier than the other, but a 3.5 YO mule deer with decent genetics is a "big one" to a lot of people, which I think gives mule deer their reputation for being easier.

belly deep I think you're right.

Out West - FACT! LOL

All but perhaps 3 of the mule deer I've taken were under 300 yards. Laser wasn't working for two of them and didn't have one for the other, which was back in the 80's. Google Earth suggests 290-320 for the two and about 330-360 for the other. The majority have been much closer, most under 200 yards, with a couple inside 15 yards.

If coming from out of state I'd recommend any rifle capable of 300 yard or longer shots that you can handle well - which is to say I'd leave my .30-30 and other leverguns (.44 Mag, .375 Win, .45-70) at home. Although I've taken mulies with my .300WM, it wasn't needed. As to a scope, I have 3-9x and a sprinkling of 4.5-14x on my bolt rifles. Both work fine but I've never needed the 14x. My advice would be 3-9x with a drop-compensating reticle or knobs and a good pair of binocs.

A .243 Win would be at the bottom of my list for a combined elk/deer hunt but .243's have taken lots of both species. If it was all I had I wouldn't have any problem heading west for mulies armed only with my .257 Roberts and a 100g TTSX, 115g AB or 120g A-Frame or Partition. Over the years I've often considered the .270 Win to arguably be the best choice for a dedicated deer rifle. If coming from out of state for a mule deer only hunt my .280 Rem or 7mm RM with 140g TTSX or AB bullets and a 3-9x compensating scope would be my first choice.

Daughter #1 got a deer tag this year and will be using her .308 Win and a 3-9x Burris Fullfield II with Ballistic Plex reticle during Colorado's combined deer/elk season, as well as for Wyoming antelope. Bullet choice is yet to be determined but we have loads worked up for 130g TTSX and 150g AB. Whichever she shoots best will get the nod for all.

Short answer: Got something between a .243 Win and a .300WM with a decent scope? Bring it.

Well since I go back east to hunt mule deer, my perspective is... pretty much in line with Shrap, Ingwe, BobinNH, JG and a bunch of other experienced mule deer hunters. Been traveling and am late to this discussion. Pretty much all has been said, and well. Shrap had it right: hunting is what you make of it. (including how far you shoot).

For folks who consider long range shots at mule deer axiomatic: remember that bow hunters are killing bucks in the same area.

My longest mule deer: (that I can remember) 260 yards.

Closest mule deer: 40 feet (on a 180 class buck). I've got a dozen or two under 50 yards.

Average: Getting longer in recent years as I take the easier-to-get longer shots rather than crawl around in brush. Is probably now over 75 yards. Purely hunting style/choices. You can shoot across a wide open flat or ease through that little strip of weeds and brush along a ditch or a trace of creek.