I’m age 64 so I’ve seen a few things in my life. When I was in my early 20s, never heard of student loans. I have a cousin who when she was 18, got a minimum wage job and put herself through school. She had a high paying job in accounting when she finished school. I was talking to a friend who just retired from the education dept . She had something to do with the accounting / budget. The subject of student loans came up and I told her I was not in favor of them, since you don’t have to pay them back. What she said was not fair is people that applied for loans and was denied them. So why have student loans?

Well, they've been around since the 50s, but they used to only be for smart kids. The purpose? To afford to go to school. The problems started when they let the dumb kids get them.

Average is $20k….some folks don’t make stupid loans.

40% of total (1.2T$) is folks with advanced degrees or in graduate school.
The ones who make the most money benefit most!!
2/3 of Bidens plan go to the top 1/2 of wage earners.

The postponement of loan payments during COVID didn’t go well
“I moved into a better apartment and bought a car …….how can I start making loan payments again???”

And 1/4 of loan forgiveness applications are rejected because they couldn’t fill out the forms properly.

The numbers were eye opening……..wish I could remember the source

I’ll try to find the article. Probably a Mike Rowe interview………

We will be hearing alot of chatter about forgivness,now that an election is coming.

Yessir - gotta pay for those votes, somehow!

I worked for a junior college for 2 years…

Got to see behind the curtain.

It’s a racket.

Don’t get me wrong.
There are some quality educators that are passionate about what they do.

Then there is the rest.. the make 25 yrs for the retirement type.

It’s a business. People in seats=$$$

Ever been to a college THAT IS NOT building a new building / facility ??

College loans are pushed to fund the machine.

The main issue is your generation (boomers) brainwashed every kid graduating high-school. They had to go to college or they'd be digging ditches or working at Walmart collecting shopping carts their entire life.


I guess I didn't know I didn't have to pay back my student loans, or I wouldn't have done so for 10yrs.

I graduated in 2010. I have no idea how people are paying for college now, some universities are charging 1k per college hour credit. A far cry from what boomers paid in the 60s/70s, even considering inflation.


Ps there's always a way to earn student loan forgiveness, public service.

Student Loans are already being forgiven on the sly. A young lady I know told me if you have paid for a certain amount of years, Yippeee, your loan disappears. She had $25,000 forgiven. The Biden administration is doing it on the sly and I don't think many people know about it. And of course, the "News" is certainly not reporting it.

Based off of what program?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Service_Loan_Forgiveness

If it's that, what's the big deal?

Graduated in 73, with a loan.
It was not a govt loan.
Paid it off in about two years.
Wasn’t easy, but it was my obligation.

As usual this is complicated. When I graduated from college in 1980 and started working 4 months of my income equaled the total cost of 4 years of college. I didn't have loans because it was possible to come up with that much money for tuition and even if I had it would have been easy to pay off.

Today someone graduating from the same college and choosing the same career would need the 1st 4 years of their income to equal 4 years tuition. The actual cost is 40X higher. $1000 per year 1976-1980 vs $40,000 per year now.

There was a time when I was dead set against forgiving loans, but I've changed my mind. I don't agree with a blanket forgiveness for everyone but there are a lot of cases that if looked at individually should apply. There are a LOT of people who started school, got loans and were unable to finish. There are LOT of people who paid for years, long ago repaying the principal, but still owe interest.

The government finds ways to give our money away to everyone else, why not these people too.

During the 90's banks loaned billions government backed loans to farmers/ranchers who they knew didn't qualify and couldn't pay back the loans. Their loans were forgiven. We can't let farmers/ranchers go bankrupt even if they make bad choices.

During Covid there were billions of PPP loans approved, almost all to millionaires who didn't need the money. Their loans were forgiven. These are the people who donate to both parties, can't let them lose any money.

During his last year in office Trump gave away $6 Trillion trying to buy votes and during his 1st year his tax cuts to millionaires cost us another $2 Trillion in lost income. That is 1/4 of our total national debt.

But a 35 year old who quit college after 3 years to become an electrician, works 50-60 hours a week and makes good money. Who borrowed $20K and has paid back all but $5K can't get a little break.

I don't know the name of the program but it is happening all over. As much as I hated it, our Daughter had about $17,000 "forgiven" last month because she had been paying over 10 years. It sucks because in my mind, you borrow, you pay it back.

I used student loans to get my teaching degree in History. At the time I started teaching there were programs that if you taught in low income schools or schools with a high "free or reduced lunch" rate if you taught there for a given time 5-7 years I believe, AND you were paying your student loans on time every month, a given per-centage would be forgiven. I chose to work in a decent district and just pay the note. I didn't get into teaching to get in a gun fight or get shanked.

So you have no idea, you're just talking out yer azz?

If it's the public service loan forgiveness program, I see no issue with it. It's basically a civilian version of the gi bill in reverse. Instead of 4yrs of up front service, you do 10yrs of public service after college all while making all of your payments during the 10yrs of service.

I’m not for forgiving student loans. What about the dumb ones who never got a loan and worked a full time job and went to school. I did. My Dad was a trucker and we were not wealthy. I worked for everything I have. Wound up with 2 Masters and never borrowed a dime. On the other hand,our government gives our tax dollars away to non citizens and countries who hate our guts. Why not give it’s citizens, including seniors and vets, benefits to aid them. The public servants seen to line their pockets pretty well. If Obama Care is so great, why aren’t they on it instead of having their own deluxe plan? Easy to spend other folks money and our tax dollars. Middle class Americans pay for everyone else and are penalized for being responsible citizens.

In what decade did you graduate and how many years did it take?

There's more to it than just taking a loan and paying it back. The students are getting screwed by the banks and there's no way out. I have an acquaintance who's a retired Marine. He went back to school and got caught in the loan game. He says that he can't possibly ever pay it off. I don't know how it works but he says that they manipulate the interest so that it builds up faster than you can pay it off. He's current on the scheduled payments but the loan just keeps getting bigger. He and his wife separated their finances and she owns everything. If they ever come after him, he won't have anything for them to take. The worst thing a borrower can do is to delay starting the payments. They allow them to delay payment and that's where the interest scam kicks in. They get hooked into a never ending cycle. He's made every payment for 5 years but his loan is bigger now than when he started, all from escalating interest.
He says that the government doesn't need to cancel the loans. They need to solve the never ending interest situation to give the students a chance to pay it off before it balloons. As it is, students see that they're forever indebted so they just quit paying at all.

Here's a guy who put in 20 years serving our country. Now the country is allowing him to be royally screwed by the big money interests. It's a sad situation.

Pick a few in your community and pay them off for them.

It should be simple: you can have your loan forgiven if you agree to have your degree expunged. Kinda like a reverse mortgage.

You traded the loan to get the degree; you should be allowed to reverse that. If you actually learned something, that's your bonus.

College loans have a place now just as they did over 40 years ago. I needed them, and a lot of student employment and summer jobs, to go to college since I had $0 help from parents who couldn't afford it. I paid them off over 10 years, but the interest rates were 2 to 5% - well below the profit-driving market rates at the time. That was due to the federal involvement at that time, and 10 years was plenty of time to pay them off. I used that education to establish my career, from which I've now retired.

My children completed college about 10 years ago and used college loans and jobs to supplement our financial help. We wanted them to understand the proper use of debt and the obligations that go with it, along with gaining an appreciation that you have to work for what you get.

The problem was, and is, that the interest rates are now at market and young folks starting out are having more difficulty with that. The profit has helped to expand the program well beyond its original legitimate purpose. Payment plans go well beyond 10 years as a result. Both children have been meeting their obligation, though our oldest, a teacher, just had hers forgiven after paying on them for about 10 years. That's good for her, but I'm still against Biden's plan, since others now have to pay for her education.

If they'd kept with the old plan of keeping banks, etc., from making big money off the loans, and kept from funding so much beyond 4 years, we wouldn't be in this place, and we wouldn't see these folks being told by Biden, et al, that everything should be given to them.

I had around 30k "forgiven". I made every payment on time for 10yrs straight (including covid..didn't trick me) and worked all those 10yrs in public service.

I kept my end of the deal, the feds kept theirs. From bagging up decomp dead bodies, arresting drunks, to even dealing with aging baby boomers complaining about how their neighbor puts their trash out too early. I earned it.

I’m not for forgiving student loans. I believe if you borrow it, you pay it back. Most of those loans are on a lower percentage than an average loan to begin with. I saw an interview this past week where a woman was so excited she had her $263,000 loan forgiven. Yes, that’s correct. She said “she thought she needed all of those degrees to have a good job.” She currently works in public service at the local courthouse. Now, since she has loan forgiveness she can go buy her dream home. This is the insanity! I’d rather give free classes on money management and personal finance than loan forgiveness.

Some of these people get the loans for more than full tuition price and live on the extra money. I know because a few of them have worked for me. They think “ I only need $5,000 but they’ll give me $7,000 at a low interest rate so I’ll make money doing it. Then fuss because they can’t pay it back. Yes they probably have part time jobs while in school but they only live in the moment instead of planning for the future.

I currently have two kids in college and one entering in a year. None of them want a loan because they don’t want to pay interest. They have taken on jobs while in school, saved and paid for their own college. They did receive some scholarships that helped but it’s not 100% by any means. My eldest is graduating this May with an engineering degree. He currently has three jobs while attending school.
My other son is a junior and works 20 hours a week while attending school. It’s called discipline and determination.

Make a better life for yourself but please don’t make me pay for it!

Student loans are cheap compared to what you get when you sit down and actually think about it.

Problem is they give them to people who are basically financially illiterate.

If student loans are so bad that they need to be forgiven……..why are we still making them?

As far as the 40% to students working towards advanced degrees: that involves people with masters degrees in social work that have $80K in debt and work for the state and make under $40K. Or chiropractors that owe $250K and make $60k.

And that’s the ones that actually FINISHED their degrees. An unconscionably high percentage of borrowers never get their piece of paper. Of, course, the school still gets their money!

If we’re going to make student loans, they should only go to the top 50% of the students, only for the last two years of their degree plan, and only up to 50% of the average annual starting wage in their field.

I graduated with a 4 year degree in History and English Literature in 1976. I worked construction in the summertime, and during school worked part time as a bartender and a waiter, and I worked my way through school. Didn't borrow a dime. I am fresh out of sympathy for those who don't want to repay student loans.

Lol in the 70s....how much were you paying per credit hour? Ten bucks?

And the thing is college cost should be going down not up. There’s no reason that a lecture couldn’t be recorded and uploaded to the net for students to watch from home without the need for all of the campus buildings, security, or paying a full time professor. If schools wanted to do it. It could be done dirt cheap compared to what it currently cost.

Universities that offer “online degrees” should be the norm for most classes. The schools that do offer web based degrees are usually as much or more money.

The other thing that has never made sense to me other than it’s mostly a money racket for the government with the gov controlling the occupational licensing and degree requirements along with the gov owning most of the schools and most of the loans. Is that a K-12 student can be educated/indoctrinated for a few thousand per year per student. Despite needing far more schools, smaller classes, hands on help, and bussing. Somehow 4 years of college teaching adults gets exponentially more expensive.

This so true! The problem is some of those people have no desire to make a better life for themselves. I went to school with a couple of people that were truly “dirt poor”. They attended college on Pell grants and received their degrees. Today they are still “dirt poor” and can’t figure out how people are so wealthy. Just because you get a degree doesn’t mean you know how to apply it.

For all the out of touch boomies, this is the going rate for a 15hr semester at Tarleton State University, which is pretty dam cheap.

The PER SEMESTER cost is more than your 4yr undergraduate degree.

Dude, kids today get $20 an hour to freaking babysit. $60 a yard per week to scoop dog poop. $300 to detail a car. Crap, I remember bartending till 2, cleaning up, driving to campus for an hour and being in class at 8 am. We sure as heck weren’t making $20 an hour stocking shelves at Walmart. Had guys in the dorms working for pennies, and glad they had some income.

I can’t remember it EVER being this easy to make GOOD money.

Student loan forgiveness is a terrible idea

The taxpayers are getting stuck with the bill for those who took out loans they can’t afford to repay

It’s a slap in the face to anyone who worked to repay a student loan. And it’s a bigger slap in the face to the millions of tradesmen who didn’t go to college but are productive tax paying citizens and yet are going to get stuck with the bill to pay for someone else’s failed attempt at an education.

PS - my wife had student loans unbeknownst to us when we got married. Her dad had taken them out. I stroked a check to pay them off at age 27. It hurt at the time but was the right thing to do

Not pay them back?

Government backed student loans are about the only loan that you will most certainly payback. There’s no bankruptcy and no way out. The gov will garnish your check or SS if they need to in order to get that money back.

The government backs the loans insuring plenty of students with access to money and in return the government schools can charge through the nose.

Student loan forgiveness is a bad idea that would have no end in sight.

The whole educational system is screwed up and broken. The loan forgiveness idea is just a byproduct of it.

That doesn’t even touch on work visas that cut into the value of a college degree or illegal aliens and outsourcing to China that has destroyed our manufacturing industry jobs forcing 18 years old to believe that they need to go to college to get a 1/2 way decent paying job. In most cases a B.A doesn’t pay all that well unless it’s used as a stepping stone to a Grad degree and even more debt. When adjusted for inflation a lot of careers requiring an advanced degree only pay about what factory work paid back in the 50’s and without the years in college or the cost of a home in college debt.

Absolutely no forgiveness. Period. End of story.

All the “free” money drives the increased cost in education. “They have the money, we can jack up the prices”

Then the “government” sees the increased cost of education, “we need to do something about it, let’s give out more “free” money”.

It’s a self licking lollipop.

Yes and gas was .25 a gal, a burger was 2 bucks, etc.

One year at a cheap public university is 20k a year, in tuition alone. No books.

You are out if touch with reality if you believe going to college currently without loans is possible for the avg. person.

Personally I would argue against anyone going to school unless their profession of choice requires it. It's a rip off. I listened to all the boomers.....I shouldn't have.

But if you must, go into public service and do your time.

People are just dumb in general.

I have one kid who graduated from a state school, and another one who has one year left. After scholarships, he’s getting a $2000+ check each semester.


The older one is a civil engineer and making way more already than I ever made.

Tuition at junior colleges here are free!

It really doesn’t have to be that expensive.

One can go to Harvard or Yale or USC and get a degree in gender studies or some such nonsense and screw themselves for life, but it isn’t necessary.

Graduated in 87 with $12,500 in student loans.

Got a military deferment for 3years (no payments and no interest accumulation) when I went on active duty as a 2LT. At the end of the 3rd year the payment coupon book arrived and I started making payments. Just watching how little went to the principal each month convinced me to get it paid off. Luckily I was in the 11th ACR forced savings program that summer (Field FTXs, 2 gunnery's), then 1st ID for DS at the conclusion I wrote them a check and paid it off.

My boy started college in 21 with a full scholarship, we still took out one $5K student loan which we then banked. It was just to help his credit rating as we started a KS 529 plan when he was born so we didn't need the loan. When the Covid Student loan deferment ended and the interest started to accrue, we paid it off.

I don't believe in forgiveness. When it comes to student loans IMHO, choose the right major and it pays off. Choose the wrong major, blow it on spring break and it's going to suck to be you..

About the same time student loans became so prevalent, college tuition’s skyrocketed.

Coincidence?


If you gave your word and signed the papers you should pay it back. Period!

If not, you’re just another part of the problem.

Might be an unpopular opinion. But I’d much rather my tax dollars be used to pay off an American Student’s college loans,(especially one working in public service) than be used to pay the bloated salary of a Ukrainian Bureaucrat.

Bingo. In 2017 we spent 47 BILLION dollars in foreign aid. Completely f ucking insane.

While we're at it, why is the federal government giving money to universities with endowments in the hundreds of millions?

Some kf the local counties in these parts have tuition reimbursement.

Funded by the county ( tax payers)

The student ( or adult) signs up the class or program.

Pays for it.

Completes the program and then is reimbursed the cost..

Makes them have “skin in the game”. An incentive.

Dont complete, quit in the middle, etc.. no reimbursement. ( though you may get a prorated refund).

Id rather tax momey be used for someone that wants to better themselves than some freeloader gaming the welfare system.

Student loans are no different than buying an auto and getting a loan or taking on credit card debt. YOU are not forced to sign for any of them, so why should YOUR debt be forgiven. If you can't make your payments on a fancy truck that you did not need, they take THEIR truck back because you don't own it till it's paid for. The same goes for student loan debt, they need to take your degree till the loan is repayed by YOU, not by other taxpayers. I know many people personally that live in fancy houses, drive expensive vehicles, have boats and other expensive toys, and take several expensive vacations a year, and they cry for student loan forgiveness because they say they can't afford the payments. Next it will be forgive all my loans.

Rockchuck,

That sounds more like a private student loan than anything .gov is attached to. When I grad from college (98) there were those type of loans out there and folks were warned to stay away because of buried terms like what you described. Bad deal for your friend. He of all people should have been eligible for an hhonest loan to attend school if needed.

I went through w/o loans or money from my folks. Was 4th in my HS class which got me a scholarship at our local jr college so I took 2yrs there then transferred and finished at a local 4yr university. I started working the day after HS graduation at the company I’m still with today working 24hr/wk during school and then 40hr/wk all summer. Because it was coming out of my pocket, I never deviated from my curriculum and took 15-18 credits/semester to get out in 4yr. I enjoyed school quite a bit but didn’t see the need to prolong it and pay any longer than absolutely necessary. 30 yrs service this year at 47yo and zero debt and a paid for house with 4 kids and a respectable net worth. A good hand dealt to me by the Man upstairs and very wise parents who taught me to work to thank for all of it.

The schools should be backing any loans with their own endowments instead of the gov’t….would make loan forgiveness and degrees with no potential for employment disappear immediately and eventually the DEI crap which only hurts the bottom line would wither and die too.

Hammer squarely on the head of the nail, JH.

From 1986-88 (4 semesters) I went to college and got an AAS degree in welding. Cost at the time was $520 a semester=$1040 a year. Didn't live on campus or have a meal plan. Apartment rent was $110 per month=$990 a year. So tuition and room cost me $2030 per year. I had a farm/ranch job that paid $800 per month during the summer and I could work on weekends and school breaks. I could make enough money over summer to cover my tuition and rent for an entire year of school.

At todays rates, my kid graduated from an in-state 4 year school a couple years ago, and it was costing him around $8000 per semester for tuition, room, meal plan. $16K per year and that isn't bad compared to out-of-state-high-dollar schools. No way in heck he could make $16,000 over the 3 month summer break to cover costs, like I did.

Amen, carden. That's what I said above. A student loan should have the diploma/degree as collateral. If you don't pay the loan, your degree is "repossessed." You can say you attended college, but there'd be no record that said you graduated.

Well...the fugging boomers got together and decided to make a college degree a mandatory requirement for employment.


It was and is used as a barrier to employment. Almost like an apprenticeship program.


So...it became retarded expensive with the help of the govt.


Good job.

Jim, so who made a college degree a requirement for us "boomers" to get a job, huh?

The fact is that there were so many of us boomers that competition for jobs was murderous. If you didn't have a degree, you were screwed. Can we blame the Greatest Generation employers for that? Maybe. But being boomers, we didn't. We just forged ahead and worked our asses off to be just that much better. It's a trait that's been lost.

It wasn't. Not nearly to the same degree.


Unless you wanted to be an accountant or a draftsman.

An example of that would be that back in the day...employers hired candidates who had degrees that were relevant to the job.


Now you just need a degree. Any degree.

Actually, that was true for me even then. I went to college for one reason only: to get my USAF commission. Any degree counted, but you had to have one. There were LOTS of pilots back then with degrees in Music, History, or (like me) English Lit. Useless degrees? maybe, but it got me a full military career, and eventually even got me into NASA.

Oh, and I can write.

It's not really 'on the sly' I don't think. It was a program passed long ago called PSLF, basically if you go to work for a qualifying govt job (teaching for instance ) and make 10 payments or years, I'm not sure which, your balance is wiped off the books. Personally I think this is a back door crony deal for the teachers unions. Buying votes.

Which is exactly why an awful lot of us hate officers in general and especially Air Farce turds. Elitist, opportunists that only care about how they can get more than the next guy with absolutely no concept of community or fellowship.

Nailed it.

You ever wonder why student loan forgiveness is never mentioned for trade school programs?

We aren't talking needing a degree to become an officer.

More of needing a degree...any degree to mow the lawn at the court house.

It's for many, many public service trades. You know, like the gi bill for the military. But I'm sure that's ok...

How about neither.

Go start a business and see how expensive it is. Most of the student loan detractors have no idea. I had a guy say it was crazy guys were getting out of PA school with 100k in debt. I asked him his much he thought the boat fishing off of actually cost. It costs me 3-350k to put a new boat in service if I include permit costs.

If you can get a high earning career you can work for 30-40 years with medical/retirement for 100k in debt, you truly are lucky. Pay your [bleep] off and live a lifestyle almost unparalleled around the world.

I had no loans but that would have worked fine for me as my degree became meaningless the first day I started work and remained so until I retired.

That's fine. But let's stop acting like it's still the f ucking 60s and 70s.

Not the case with my career. At all.

montram, I was unaware that Army green also stands for jealousy.

Funny that no ground pounder ever told me he hated me or to eff off when he was in bayonet range with the NVA. Saving their lives while serving as an irresistible target seems to me to be a pretty damn fine show of fellowship.

IMO, the first college course required should be on money management and loan options. Some parents I know do their kids a disservice by paying for all of their kid's (18-25) expenses so they "don't have to do it the hard way". When the students start a career, they have no idea how to manage their money. Many parents have also co signed on their college student's loans using he same reasoning. How does this make sense? 3 kids, 250k or more in loans... good luck when the parents apply for a loan and this is on their credit report.
I spoke with a wise friend that felt the new labor market should be 1/3 service,(or military), 1/3 building trades and 1/3 college degrees required for a specific job. That would change the college dynamic in a hurry for sure.
An individual's aptitude should be part of the equation when planning for a career. That facet seems to be overlooked often with the result being a failure at a university that causes a setback.
But I do wholeheartedly agree that the college education system has become another money making scheme with no accountability. Maybe job placement should be used to give the colleges a ranking? That may change the "any degree will work" philosophy.

Oh who the fugg is this guy now?

Sheesh.

The problem with student loans is, the US Government is in charge of the process, top to bottom, and the government can not tie its very own single shoe lace on just one shoe, without a total screw up.

The Real answer is to stop subsidizing colleges and universities and let the free market determine what tuition should be.

That would be a nice start....but you know how old fuggers love college football......

How fuggin’ convenient for you to just be able to blame another generation for everything you find wrong in the world…

BTW, thanks for paying for my SS! I’ve just about burned through the principle.

Yes, sensible, and some version of this - I would limit subsidy to what the taxpayers in a given state are willing to invest to run their in-state higher ed.

My boomer brain might be fading a bit, but I'm pretty sure I paid $60 a credit hour back in the late 60s. But I carried 16 to 20 credits per semester. I was a day student, so cost was for tuition and books; no room or food. I commuted. I also worked part-time in a Western Auto store at a blazing $1.65/hr and took student loans the last two years of school. Paid them off in two years, too.

Indeed Pappy. My first check is coming next month.

I never worked it out for dollars per credit hour.

Wonder what mine was.....

I think tuition for me was around 2000 to 2500 a semester.

I’ve been on the dole for 10 years now. It’s a Wonderful Life!

When I got out of HS, tuition at the U of MD was about $3k for residents. I just went to work. 40 years later, I decided it was time for a break. Been on that break for almost 14 years.

When you got out of high school I bet the tuition for the little college I went to was less than 500 bucks!

That might actually be legal, given that schools often hold diplomas hostage for various speech crimes and overdue books.

Plus ammunition allowance for fighting off the Sioux…

Jeez, didn't know that everything that is wrong with the good ole USA is the collective fault of everyone who was born in the USA between mid-1946 and mid-1964?

Since I earned my undergraduate degrees by signing up for a 4 year ROTC scholarship, I never knew, or cared, how much the U.S. Army was paying for my education 'cause I knew that I'd be paying the big green machine back in full with sweat and possibly blood. I paid back the student loans for my MBA at a time when I struggled to afford to, but I felt an obligation to pay them back, as my word/signature is my bond.

BTW - DJT was born in the second month of the Boomer era, 06/46.

No....it's just a really affordable place to go to school.

Those deserving receive scholarships. Those undeserving receive cash in form of "student loans", repayment not required.
Same as everything else, housing, food, utilities, healthcare, they pay for nothing.. gimmedats.

When I started university in 1980 we had what was called a registration fee (tuition) of $62.50/quarter. When I graduated in 1985 it was $280/quarter so from ~$190 to ~$900/year. The killer was room and board as the central coast of California was not cheap. My youngest son graduated from Texas A&M four years ago and his tuition was $7K/semester so $14k/year.

Awww you poor old thing (emphasis on old).

I'm just stating facts. Your generation was handed everything, and in turn f ucked it up. The downfall of this country started wth you.

That seems pretty affordable for today's world.


COL for him pretty decent in Texas?

Anytime someone can fùck over uncle Sam, I'm all for it. If these people can bail on their loans from US, I'm not mad.

Should loans be forgiven? No.
Should students be loaned $150K for a BA in Basket Weaving with a minor in Trans-womens studies? No.
Are the Boomers the sole blame? No. BUT, they steered the ship.

Now, lets zoom out, try to pretend we're 17 year old senior in high school (will be hard for most).

Your parents are Gen-X / early Millennials. Better than average chance they were raised by the schools - cuz Gramma and Grampa found that to be more convenient than actively participating in their education.

Mommy and Daddy expect you to attend college after high school

Mommy and Daddy are not in a financial position to pay out of pocket (poor planning, circumstance, however)...but they make too much for you to get on the Sharkiesha tuition plan.

Your teachers have instilled in you that college is the ONLY path to financial success since you were in elementary school

Your high school teachers kicked that into overdrive. A degree, any degree = financial success.

Round about your sophomore year you start getting speeches about "College Planning". By first semester of your Junior year they expect you to have a program of study picked out. They encourage you to go with something you are passionate about - at 16/17 (art majors anyone?). Barring passion you look at 6 year old earnings statistics and pick something high paying....Medicine, Engineering, Law. You're not sure what a Mechanical Engineer actually does, but you got a B+ in physics and you're in pre-Calc, so its probably a great fit. You've never been down the hallway of the shop wing in your high school. If it even has a program anymore.

Your female guidance counsellor's heirarchy of Universities is Prestige Private/Well Known Out of Staters/Your Prestige state school (UW, UofM, etc...)/Small Private/Small State schools. If YOU seek out advice about a Technical College she MIGHT toss you a pamplet. Apprenticeship? GTFO of my office, those are for the dirty kids.

You send out your applications, sort through the aftermath, choose a school. Spend the last few months of your senior year telling everyone you're going to major in 13th Century Aboriginal Folklore at Macalester in the fall.

You and mom sit down at some point and fill out FAFSA apps, find out they'll give you $34,000 per semester on an unsubsidized loan at 7.9% - which is awesome, your tuition is only $30,850 a semester so you're golden. Sign something about not being able to rid yourself of the loan through bankruptcy (thanks Docs) but if you die they'll let it slide. Mom was a great mentor in this process because she's upside down on a loan for a used Range Rover and only has about $17K riding in credit cards.

You get to school and a few paths can unfold for you.

You can bang out a degree in 4 years and go live your life.

You get through your first semester of Engineering and decides this ain't it and **POOF** you're a business major now - you wasted money on any credits you took that weren't gen ed requirements and now you're on the 5 year plan.

You get through 2 years, life happens, you leave without a degree - all good, just start those monthly payments on that $94K.

You got that coveted degree in Social Work. Your advisor informs you the state is really going to be looking for a Master's to get into any kind of leadership position. You hop into a Master's program **BONUS** graduate level credit hours are about 1/4 to 1/3 again more expensive than under grad credits! Cuz they're more specialer.





*******************************************

Now, these kids made their decisions, they signed on the line, they owe.

I can empathize a bit with the butthurt they have once the veil is removed however. 17 years old pressured into a *pretty big* life decision after 12 years of indoctrination, advised by 45 year old functional retards and ivory tower "mentors", welcomed with open arms into predatory Academia, subsidized by good Ol' Uncle Sam.

Currently working as a customer service rep to Xcel Energy with a $194K BS in Psych making $21.85 / hour with a $1500 a month 2 bedroom and a roommate....


System is fucked from top to bottom and that is a fact.

I didn’t go to college I went to work

College should also be done like trade school. Get straight to the fùcking point of the degree. An embalmer, dr, nurse, etc... doesn't need a bunch of pre requisite bullshìt classes before getting to what they actually want to learn about. Then they wouldn't require half of what's expected of them "credit wise." That would saves some time and money alone.

I dont get a say in what my tax dollars are spent on. As long as they're kept in this country, I honestly don't mind them paying for a better society.

Yeah, but if the college doesn't require that nurse to take 4 credit hours of fine arts credits, 3 credits of humanities, and a 3 credit lit course in addtion to 4-6 hours of English then how are they going to justify the salaries of the Deans of the Schools or Art, Humanities, or English?!

Lets not forget the 4 credits of Physical Education - need to pay a few grand to take an online Walking course or Racket sports course that meets twice a week from 4 - 6 PM. Special teams coach at the state school needs something to do the rest of the year...

This was actually a really good read because this is exactly what I'm going through with my 17yo daughter who has absolutely no idea what she wants to do for the rest of her life and I get it, because I can remember being her age and then one day it's like somebody gives you a list and tells you that you have a fairly short window of time to pick a career field that you want to do for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. It's overwhelming. Luckily when I was that age I fell into the trades. She picked nursing and I'm fairly certain it's only because that's what most of her friends chose to do.

Going to college right after high-school...especially when you don't have a plan...is kinda dumb.

This thread provides some interesting snapshots of how it was/is done, the costs and the yields. Have there been dramatic changes in the reasons, means and costs since higher ed choices made in the 1950s. Why?

What were the primary drivers of such choices, and the costs, 70 years ago as compared to the contemporary? Have there been changes in the fundamental reasons for becoming more learned? Are the definitions and outcomes/rewards of "learned" different.

Not that the $$ side is unimportant (for it is), but in the more broad context, the current stupidity and scuffling about costs seems a mark of poorly educated society.

That’s a really good summation of what takes place in households all across the USA every year. Dumbazzes raising kids.

I tried to talk my kids into being welders, electricians, or plumbers. They chose college.

At least they did formulate some sort of plan and didn’t just go for the PE or arts degree.

That's why I didn't go. Even being a stupid kid out of high school I could see the useless waste of money it would have been for me. I even had a free ride at that had I went.

My degree number is 214! Just cost me 5 years....in a better time than now USA!

Part of the problem is waisting money on degrees that don’t translate into income. Communication degrees, musical or vocal performance are a couple that come to mind. Great if you want to go officer in the service like others have posted pretty worthless for earning a living. My son has a couple roommates who were performance majors selling cell phones and working in retail. They still owe stupid money on student loans.

Some here want to blame boomers but this boomer told his children you better major in something that translates into income. Oldest did the music education (good for k through 12) at a state school and owed practically nothing. Working, his board of ed supplemented his masters degree a little. He went to an other state university and paid as he went. Took 3 years owes nothing. Youngest went for free (my wife works for a private university, free tuition to her and the kid). He majored in fire investigation (think insurance work) then put himself through para-medic school and got a fire department job. 2 classes and he has a masters that he paid for as he went (private university). No student loans for either of them.

Criminal justice will help getting a police job, fire science not so much. If the fire service is your goal para -medicine will get you hired and a lot cheaper than a 4 year degree and you can earn some decent money working for an ambulance company.

I never went to college. I always worked on weekends and after work in high school . I worked construction , so by I was about 20 years old, I knew how to build a house. Through the years I got better at building and learned new trades . At 18, I really did not know what I wanted to do. My dad talked me into construction because he was in it at that time of my life. Very interesting reading the posts on this thread. Education in all forms is beneficial .

Back in the early 80's my supervisor, who had 5 sons and could well afford to educate them, borrowed absolutely to the limit at 4% and invested it all. Free money in his books, and he did well.

I did near 10 years of college (at state sponsored colleges), but the GI bill (5 yrs) coupled with school and summer work got me a BS and half of an MS. My remaining graduate school run was a funded project. That being, I left college with a little money in the bank. After graduating, I paid enough in taxes in the next 4 years to fully fund my entire college career. Such is not for everyone, but if one's desired job demands it, that education will quickly be rewarded.

Our local hospital is dishing out just over 100K a year for new RN's. Neighbor's daughter just came back and purchased a small home and new pickup right after signing up. Our MD's are starting at 250K and only work half time (4 on 4 off). They do fill in work nearby on their off time, making even bigger bucks. We're considered a rural environment, so MD's that come here with debt can have it fully forgiven if they put in two years. Most, but not all, have their house listed within a day of hitting the 2-year mark and head for Metropolis.

When our son first registered, we could afford to pay, but still had to be routed through the financial aid office. That person was amazed at the amount of $$$ available to hand out and mentioned how kids would roll in requesting dollars and in the same sentence wax eloquently on how well their Cabo spring break had gone. Mostly, I don't think today's generation knows how to cut back and live cheaply in a garage apartment. Must haves today include a rig, cable, internet, a phone, computer, printer, scanner, TV, and 1 or two nights out on the town every week. I thought I was going big for a Texas Instruments calculator, and it wouldn't even do square roots. Had to find an engineer with an HP for that.

Our kid dropped out after 1 quarter, and bless his heart, that let me retire 2 years before I had planned. He struggled doing entry level stuff up into his 30's and has just managed to get to a living wage recently.

In my book though, if you borrow, you pay.

I am paying on a parent plus loan for one of my kids. My part was 8k for one semester. It is on autopay at 86 dollars a month. She is now in her last week of Marine Corps basic training so I don't care about the loan in the very least.

A hands on education trumps a classroom education every time. A college degree will open some doors that remain closed if you don’t have one. Short of that, one is not needed for much else.

My pops went to VCU Virginia tech and Lynchburg college and was a doctor at one time no schit.He had a mid life crises and said fuqk it got tired of living in Richmond😃

Exactly!

Enlisting in the military is an opportunity to mature a little, earn a little money, and learn a skill if you're in a technical MOS. By the end of that first enlistment, a young man or woman should have a better idea what they want to do in life.

When I graduated from high school I was sure that I wanted to be a soldier, but after 7 years I knew that the deck was stacked against me 'cause no matter what I did, I would never be a USMA graduate. When I got out, I knew that I didn't want to teach, so I went back to school at age 29 and earned an MBA.

I left undergrad with $15 k in student loans daily because I did a semester in Jerusalem and couldn't work while in a nursing program because we did 24 hours of clinical a week and a full class load.

When I went to MBA school I signed a contract saying I wouldn't work while in school because it was every day from 7:00 am to 11:00 pm as part of a group. I lived in student loans and even with a 3/4 academic scholarship I still added another $50,000 in student loans. I paid about 85% back the first 5 years working because every bonus I got I put 100% towards loans.

My loans were before Obama nationalized them all so I got some good incentives for paying on time. My last $10k got to were the interest was only 5/8ths of a percent fixed. Yes, less than 1 % so I just paid the minimum for years. I think the rates and programs were better before feds got involved. Some of my classmates that didn't have scholarships for MBA school left with $150k in loans so I didn't think I did too bad. Part of my grad school debt was spent do the summer in the middle bouncing around Asia fir an international business class.

Bb

I graduated high school at 17 and went to work. I would have quit high school, but my parents wouldn't allow it.

I believe loans should only go to students that are seeking degrees in high demand areas (Engineering, Medical Sciences, etc). You want a degree in Gender Studies and lesbian dance theory? Hand over the money up front. That would reduce the cost of college due to colleges only offering in demand degree fields. And the supply of useful idiots getting loans for a degree that qualifies them to be a barista for the rest of their life would dry up.

That’s actually a pretty good idea. Certain fields are in serious need of competent and intelligent people but the pool of candidates is too small. If loans and financial aid are skewed toward the needed fields instead of every idiotic cop-out excuse of a degree the repayment rate will skyrocket and we’ll have people in the fields (STEM, aviation, etc) of study that matter and will have a positive impact on our economy and our country!

Completely disagree. Go knock out the 60 core credits while it is fresh in your head right out of high school.

If you don’t know what you want to do after that go to work until you know that you want to major in.

True, but be careful Jim, you have just described about 75% of the K-12 teachers. Classic statement, What's your major, now your in your senior year? Oh, I don't know, just a couple more credits and I can get a teaching credential while I figure it out.

A kid can often get much of that first year credit while still in HS.

Yeah it's a little different now than when I was in school

Mine did. He’s getting out in 3 years.

When my two grandchildren were born I immediately opened 529's for each of them (two). Funds are transferred monthly from one of my Fidelity accounts to theirs. Should help a bunch when their time comes.

Absolutely agree! Going to community college and getting the 2 years of required classes out of the way while, like you said, it’s fresh is solid advice even if the student has no idea what they want to do in the future. Whether for the trades or for future college getting the prerequisites out of the way significantly reduces the barriers that might prevent one from furthering their education. It also doesn’t hurt to have a decent foundation of knowledge in the core areas like reading, writing, math and history….if for nothing else but for yourself.

My school of hard knocks was cheap, so of, if you don't count all my blunders.

I would like to see any “forgiveness scheme” be based on payments of employee matched by employer. Maybe with caps. Maybe not. But if my payment is $150 per month and I pay each payment on time then the employer, either out of pocket or through grants, matches payment for payment. If an employee squeezes a little into each payment forgiveness matches to an extent similar to 401k matching.

I had to make payments on time for 3 years and teach in a shortage area before I was eligible for any forgiveness applications.

I am opposed to forgiving huge blocks of loans for anyone that has sat around brown thumbing it for 5-6 years and hasn’t paid a dime.

Jackson Handy: I m an old fart, old school. Graduated Jr College in 1969, College in1971 with a draft number of 6. Worked a while at Baxter Labs till I found a job teaching. Joined the ARNG in 71 also, not a volunteer army at that time. Started teaching in 73 at a private school. Went into public school administration in 77 and started graduate school. Finished in 81. Got a rep for being a troubleshooter to remedy problem schools. Get the problem solved involves change. Change is wonderful, implementation is Hell especially in a district where the superintendent is elected. Superintendent usually hires relatives. Wore my welcome out and moved on. Also worked as school principal with Mississippi Band of Choctaw. Different ballgame and dynamics. I was a hands on guy with a strong work ethic gained from my truck driver/ beer joint bouncer Dad. I asked a school board president about my job description. His reply was, there’s 26 acres here and you responsible for everything that goes on on the 26 acres. I took this literally. Inspect what you expect. I would pull duty, help clean restrooms, drove bus routes, work on cafeteria serving line, teacher classes to give teachers restroom breaks, whatever.
I felt like I knew my students and the demographics very well. Very few administrators get out the office. I was not one of those. Lead by example and never ask anyone to do something you wouldn’t do yourself.

Mine did too. There were quite a few AP classes and his HS had an agreement with the local community college. The end of this year (Junior) he's got enough credits to graduate, so he's starting on his masters while in his senior year.

They are called "dual enrollment" classes here. The savvy kids take them as they are free. The loan forgiveness bunch smokes weed and plays xbox all day.

Mine did as well though I told him to not use his calculus and physics credits. He followed my advice and thanked me for it after his first semester.

Exactly. Yes gramps, it doesn't cost 12 cents per credit hour anymore.

Our daughter is a dentist and is just finishing a 2d degree to be an endodontist. Between the 2 schools, she's in hock about a half mill. However, she's making enough so that she'll have it paid off in 5 years. Professional schools are totally different than regular colleges. Very few can afford the extreme cost of medical schools without taking out huge loans. The students do come out with some heavy duty training. If someone's sawing on your body, you want them to be the best.

Son of mine grads HS next yr 🤦‍♂️

Everything the government gets involved in turns to schidt. I was blessed with cash flowing a four year engineering degree. Parents aren’t parenting if they allow their little kids to spend thousand upon thousands in tuition to simply get a degree that equals a $25,000 to $35,000 salary

Worse than being pushed to go to college, is being sold that a job is the way to health, wealth, and happiness. Jobs generally aren't designed for that.

Man, you’ve REALLY bought into the leftist narrative. You swallowed the bait, hook, line and sinker!

How about some FACTS?

20 states have FREE community college. So, first two years of your degree are FREE. Don’t live in one of those states? Move and establish residency.

Second. The AVERAGE annual tuition for an in-state school, this year, is $10, 940. (https://www.bankrate.com/loans/student-loans/average-cost-of-college/ )

Your $20K is almost half-right. For two out of four years of the education.

Work 40 hrs a week stocking shelves at Walmart or Target at $20 an hour, 80 hrs a week during breaks….that’s $50K a year.

Please tell me you can’t pay $11K a year tuition making $50? Pretty please?

What is the fundamental purpose of learning, particularly advanced learning, beyond the high school level? Is the purpose found in self-improvement and higher development?

Trade/business/occupation skills - yes in many cases - the needs/applications are rather clear and the concomitant rewards rather obvious and immediate. Why would any upstanding and intelligent person who takes this productive route, engaging in the world of good pay in exchange for good work, ever imagine that he/she does not have to repay a loan on the agreed schedule? Antithetical to the fundamental norm.

For those who choose higher education for reasons aside from the above - actual higher learning that includes at least a strong basic grounding in arts/sciences/social sciences/philosophy - ostensibly enabling ability to engage life and society on ethical and moral grounds - how could they even begin to take the position that the loans they promised to repay should suddenly be borne by some other unknown persons? Could that expectation be an outcome of true higher learning? How so?

Thus, what type of persons are left to expect - even insist upon - escape from such obligations they assume - such promises they make? And even worse, what kind of person tries to implement such an illicit ploy, with the money of others, simply to obtain votes. The depraved being used by the depraved.

When a Dotor operates on me, I want the doctor to be well schooled.

.My son will be graduating med school in a few months. There was no way we could foot the bill for him but we helped out a lot. Some of his peers will be graduating with 300K in student loans! You can't work and survive med school.

He led a frugal 4 years as a student and saved a lot of money from high school through college.

It made me not complain how much health care costs

Move and establish residency in a new state? Move for a better quality of life or better educational opportunities? The do nothings that haven’t done sh.it on the campfire hate that. 😂 Those dipshits would, in their pithy semi-literate ways, go apeshit and demand that you stay and “fight”. They don’t know who you should fight or where that fight should begin but damnit they know what others should or shouldn’t do. 😂

If a kid leans that way, then for sure they should head to college right out of high school. I would have flunked in fine order though had I taken that route. Four military years though generated some motivation, as there was quite a disparity between officers and enlisted men.

With a break in my education processes, a 400 level biochem course was a near killer for me when I'd not been in a chem class for 6 years. It was one of those weed eating classes for cleaning out the less motivated pre-med students. There were around 200 seated the first day and about 100 there for the final exam.

There’s a huge difference between “well schooled” and extremely competent….. I want my doctor to be extremely competent! All doctors are “well schooled” and some of the dumbest [bleep] I’ve ever met were “well schooled” but they were beyond ignorant of everything that matters, they lacked basic common sense and they were usually socially retarded. With education there becomes a point where the more education one gets they reach a point of diminished returns on the education which inevitably morphs into regressive stupidity, extreme liberalism and severe mental illness.

Thank you Ace.

My son is one of the (future) few doctor's that I know that works on cars, hunts, shoots, trained his hunting dog, grows vegetables and is an all around intelligent guy.

He is going to make a really good doctor!

I am so proud of him!

Going off of your numbers of 11k per year going to school year around fulltime. How much more is going to room and board on campus or the same off campus going to cost? Plus maintenance on a vehicle, gas and insurance, a phone bill, and living expenses?

Very few people are going to balance 15 credits AND work 40 hrs per week. If Walmart were truly passing out entry level shelf stocking jobs starting at $20 per hour we’d all be high on the hog. Maybe they do in a few extremely high cost of living locations?

So an average college student by your numbers is going to take out 45k in loans just for schooling over four years. Call it 50k with book fees lab fees ect. Plus they’re going to be unable to make enough money for housing, necessities, a small amount of spending money, car insurance, bills and so on. So they’ll easily take out more than double that to pay the bills unless they live at home with mom and dad rent free and mom and day are willing to pay for the groceries and utilities.

How much additional money do you expect an even frugal poor college student taking 15 credits and finding the time to work 20 hours a week after school and homework while making $15 an hour will need in loans?

$15 an hr and working 20 hours a week is probably $200 a week or less take home and will barely cover gas and insurance and the phone bill.

Community college is a bargain but it isn’t free in most places. Moving somewhere and establishing residency usually requires a two year wait for colleges and it takes living with mom and dad off of the table. It also begs the question that if two years are “free” why are the last two so overpriced?

The FACTS are that college cost have skyrocketed when compared to inflation and at the same time the earning power of a college degree has plummeted. There’s exceptions but they’re just that exceptions. In most cases you’re looking at 2-3 more years of even higher priced graduate schooling and will be in your mid 20’s before you start an entry level job in that field and making 60k but will already own a mortgage worth of debt in student loans.

You should be.

You definitely raised him right👍👍

It looks like a whole lot of those 20 "free tuition" (not really "free college") states have requirements like you had to graduate high school in that state. Some of them have residency standards beyond just moving there.

Even if a kid straight out of high school could somehow afford to move to a different state and get a job that would pay his room and board and for his books, he might still not qualify for free tuition under those programs.

In state schools and community college are cheap for the first few years. Gets a little more costly once you get higher up.

My niece is going to GCU next year. Tuition/Room/Board is 14k a year after scholarships. That's pretty cheap for what you get. Go get an apartment and buy your own food. You'd be lucky to do that for 15k these days.

Oh, JFC, have you ever listened to yourself whine?

So you pay for community college for the first two years (if the kids an under achiever without any AP college credits).

Average community college annual cost, this year, is $3,860.

“What about room and board, books, cars, the jacuzzi payments, insurance, country club memberships or yoga classes?”

Well, WHAT ABOUT THEM? Six guys get together and rent a house, $300 a piece. Drive a beater, don’t get any dam tickets. Don’t eat out, and buy your clothes at Goodwill. It’s not hard, people. Except maybe on the ego.

“Can’t work while taking 15 credits”.

WTF are Saturdays and Sundays for? I used to do 16 hrs a day on Saturday and Sunday in college, plus 8 hrs Friday night. That’s 40 hrs, in case you failed math class. During breaks I worked 16 hrs a day (two full time jobs), six days a week, only 8 on Sunday and Monday. Finished college in THREE years - never less than 18 credits, up to 21 (anything over 15 was free, lol, couldn’t turn that down).

If you don’t WANT to do what it takes to get through college on your own, fine, your problem, but if you say it can’t be done, you’re just making excuses.

Forgot to mention, I worked two part time jobs during my four years in college.
Secondly, I believe most understand, forgiving these loans just means the rest of us pay off the loans via taxes.

Engineering major by chance?

Right.

Just find five other guys to live with, do all of your shopping at Goodwill, go to school fulltime while pulling sixteen hour shifts on Saturday AND Sunday along with a quick 8 hrs on Friday night for four straight years and never eating out or going on a date. All for a 4 year degree that has skyrocketed in price and decreased in value.

Debt forgiveness isn’t the answer IMO but there’s absolutely no reason for a college degree to cost what it does.

LOL I wasn't whining, just stating some facts. Most of those free community college programs are set up to keep a kid from just moving into a new state and instantly qualifying for the program, even if he could somehow scratch together the dough to do so on his own. They're set up for previously established residents.

I did okay in math, thanks. How did you do in reading comprehension? Nothing I said was even close to what you seem to think I said.

Dutch, I did it. Sure as hell wasn't easy. Consumed plenty of Ramen noodles. $2 to work out at the old Y downtown required contemplation. Worked 2-3-4 pt jobs. Fished, crabbed, oystered, spearfished and netted hundreds hundreds of lbs of food. College sweetheart was a Marine Science major and worked for Florida DNR. She could occasionally harvest research bycatch, which could include soft shell crabs, redfish, snook, mangrove snapper, etc. We ate like royalty on those nights. We'd collect tropicals with a slurp gun when diving with her dive shop students on the dive shop's boat and sell them to the local pet shops. We'd gear up with tanks and bottom scrape Marine Science and DNR vessels. Looking back, I sometimes wonder how we actually made it.

What a bleeding match. LOL

We got in for 10k just from the first semester. Before the semester ended, her friends that she started college with, all dropped out and started again in the neighboring state. They wanted the college experience and felt that the first school didn't party enough. She knew that was not sustainable for us, so she moved back to Montana and joined the Marines.

It's not so much the price, it's the gain you get for the expenditure.

What intrigues me about these (somewhat frequent) conversations, besides the specious "all the boomer's fault" babble, is that no one seems to give a [bleep] that they are paying income, sales, property, ad valorum and other taxes and fees to fund elementary through high school education that costs MORE PER YEAR than college.

NCES Public Elementary and Secondary School Data

I mean come on!

WTF?

There’s some wisdom right there! That’s how this country was built!

Here in N.C., a public university will cost about $10,000 per semester, when tuition, room and board are considered. Some are a bit more, some a bit less.

We have committed to funding the lion’s share of our kids’ undergrad expenses. Anything more will be on them. Our daughter is already planning on going to grad school. She has a good grasp on the cost and seems pretty confident in her decision.