Two sources who recruit for Mississippi State said that Cecil Newton and his son, quarterback Cam Newton, admitted in separate phone conversations to a pay-for-play plan while Newton was being recruited late last year.
Mississippi State compliance officials relayed the alleged conversations to Southeastern Conference compliance officials in January, according to two other sources close to the football program.
Prior to Newton's commitment to Auburn, one of the recruiters said Cecil Newton told him it would take "more than a scholarship" to bring his son to Mississippi State, a request the source said the school would not meet. Cecil Newton also referred the recruiter to a third person that would provide more specifics, the source said.
After Newton committed to Auburn, another source said an emotional Cam Newton phoned another recruiter to express regret about his change of commitment from Mississippi State, stating that his father Cecil had chosen Auburn for him because "the money was too much."
The NCAA is investigating allegations surrounding the Newtons in regards to the recruiting process. Cam Newton, who is having a Heisman-caliber season for No. 2 Auburn, declined comment.
Cecil Newton, who previously has denied any wrongdoing, did not respond to an e-mail request for comment Tuesday night.
Auburn did not respond to a request for comment. The school has repeatedly said it looked into Newton's recruitment and that he remains eligible.
Earlier Tuesday, Auburn found itself defending Newton in the wake of allegations of academic cheating when he was at Florida. The Tigers' coach, Gene Chizik, dismissed a FoxSports.com report as "pure garbage" in an emotional 4-minute, 25-second rant.
"I'm standing up here on a very important week trying to defend something that's garbage," Chizik said. Auburn faces Georgia on Saturday.
FoxSports.com reported Monday that Newton was caught cheating three times and was to appear for a hearing in front of Florida's Student Committee facing possible expulsion during the spring semester of 2009.
Newton transferred to Blinn Junior College in Brenham, Texas, where he played last season. He declined to discuss the latest report, which came on the heels of former Mississippi State quarterback John Bond telling ESPN.com that someone claiming to represent the Newton family sought money during his recruitment by the school.
Sources told ESPN.com the man who said he was representing the Newtons was Kenny Rogers, who played in the 1980s for Mississippi State alongside Bond.
"I'm not going to entertain something that took place not three months, not six months, not a year but two years ago," Cam Newton said. "I'm not going to sit up here and say anything about it, whether I did or did not do it, because I don't want to beat a dead horse talking about it. It's not going to affect me any way, shape or fashion."
Cecil Newton talked about the allegations earlier Tuesday on Paul Finebaum's syndicated sports talk radio show in Alabama.
"This is a character assassination attempt," he said on the show. "Who is going to profit and why are they are going to profit? We sure don't.
"I think there's a group of people who have a hidden agenda and don't want to see him as a Heisman nominee, let alone winner," he said.
In Gainesville, Florida coach Urban Meyer said in a statement that neither he nor anyone on his staff leaked information on Newton's academic record, calling it a "ridiculous claim."
"For anyone to think that I or anyone on our staff may have leaked information about private student records to the media doesn't know us very well," Meyer said. "It's a ridiculous claim and simply not true."
Cam Newton said Meyer was a man of integrity.
"I would hope he wouldn't say anything like that," he said.
Meanwhile, Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops, who also recruited Newton out of Blinn, said he saw "nothing at all" out of the ordinary during that process.
"Our recruitment of Cameron could not have been better, or was just fine," Stoops said. "I didn't notice anything and none of our coaches did as we were recruiting him."
Joe Schad is a national college football reporter for ESPN. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
Lots of "he said/she said" and I believe in giving the kid the benefit of the doubt. Prob is that long shadow of Reggie Bush will cover this kid and he might miss a date in New York over it and that's sad.
If they can prove it - fine but if they can't - well you can't unring a bell and this kid's gonna be tainted over it.
So much smoke, you gotta know they'll find the fire if they kick over enough rocks.
Supremely talented kid; too bad this mess, whether he's guilty or not, will undoubtedly taint his reputation as one of the greatest in the college ranks. Could well cost him the Heisman.
Just one story and you could buy it was BS. The fact he WAS arrested for stealing and a high probability that he was caught cheating at UF, only makes the other story more plausible.
We often forget that most of these AA's that get to play college football, would be dealing drugs or working at Burger King if they didn't happen to be blessed physically. They didn't get that scholarship because they were intellectually/ethically gifted.
while I am certainly no Auburn fan, I think Newton is getting a raw deal. There has been no proof at all of wrong doing past the incident of the lap top. Newton owed up to that, and was adjudicated.
If he hadn't been caught cheating and been about to get kicked out by the UF student review board, do you really think he would now be saying "I ain't gonna comment on anything". Give me a break.
If all of that was bullshyt, he and Daddy would be screaming that he is innocent, as it's something easily provable.
And just because he got a slap on the wrist because his felony theft was his first offense, doesn't make it nuthin, as if a 5 year old stole some candy.
None of this matters now, OTHER than it shows that the recruiting charges might have some merit, where a kid with a clean past, might deserve the benefit of the doubt.
A person with knowledge of Newton's situation confirmed Newton left Florida after the fall 2008 semester rather than face suspension or expulsion, in part due to the allegations of academic wrongdoing, The New York Times reported on Wednesday.
If he hadn't been caught cheating and been about to get kicked out by the UF student review board, do you really think he would now be saying "I ain't gonna comment on anything". Give me a break.
If all of that was bullshyt, he and Daddy would be screaming that he is innocent, as it's something easily provable.
And just because he got a slap on the wrist because his felony theft was his first offense, doesn't make it nuthin, as if a 5 year old stole some candy.
None of this matters now, OTHER than it shows that the recruiting charges might have some merit, where a kid with a clean past, might deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Daddy is under a gag order from his attorney, and the NCAA. And UF has issued a statement that Newton was never brought up an any charges of cheating.
He didn't get a slap on the wrist, he completed pre-trial diversion for having a stolen laptop, and being a first time offender. Not candy as you stated, but hardly John Dillenger either.
He also got a bunch of traffic tickets too. Had you heard that? It's true! OH MY GOD!
The SEC and NCAA have had this info on the alleged recruiting violations...none of which implicate Auburn by the way...since January. Auburn knew about the investigation too. He's been deemed eligible to play, and plays this Saturday.
Two sources who recruit for Mississippi State said that Cecil Newton and his son, quarterback Cam Newton, admitted in separate phone conversations to a pay-for-play plan while Newton was being recruited late last year.
Mississippi State compliance officials relayed the alleged conversations to Southeastern Conference compliance officials in January, according to two other sources close to the football program.
Prior to Newton's commitment to Auburn, one of the recruiters said Cecil Newton told him it would take "more than a scholarship" to bring his son to Mississippi State, a request the source said the school would not meet. Cecil Newton also referred the recruiter to a third person that would provide more specifics, the source said.
After Newton committed to Auburn, another source said an emotional Cam Newton phoned another recruiter to express regret about his change of commitment from Mississippi State, stating that his father Cecil had chosen Auburn for him because "the money was too much."
The NCAA is investigating allegations surrounding the Newtons in regards to the recruiting process. Cam Newton, who is having a Heisman-caliber season for No. 2 Auburn, declined comment.
Cecil Newton, who previously has denied any wrongdoing, did not respond to an e-mail request for comment Tuesday night.
Auburn did not respond to a request for comment. The school has repeatedly said it looked into Newton's recruitment and that he remains eligible.
Earlier Tuesday, Auburn found itself defending Newton in the wake of allegations of academic cheating when he was at Florida. The Tigers' coach, Gene Chizik, dismissed a FoxSports.com report as "pure garbage" in an emotional 4-minute, 25-second rant.
"I'm standing up here on a very important week trying to defend something that's garbage," Chizik said. Auburn faces Georgia on Saturday.
FoxSports.com reported Monday that Newton was caught cheating three times and was to appear for a hearing in front of Florida's Student Committee facing possible expulsion during the spring semester of 2009.
Newton transferred to Blinn Junior College in Brenham, Texas, where he played last season. He declined to discuss the latest report, which came on the heels of former Mississippi State quarterback John Bond telling ESPN.com that someone claiming to represent the Newton family sought money during his recruitment by the school.
Sources told ESPN.com the man who said he was representing the Newtons was Kenny Rogers, who played in the 1980s for Mississippi State alongside Bond.
"I'm not going to entertain something that took place not three months, not six months, not a year but two years ago," Cam Newton said. "I'm not going to sit up here and say anything about it, whether I did or did not do it, because I don't want to beat a dead horse talking about it. It's not going to affect me any way, shape or fashion."
Cecil Newton talked about the allegations earlier Tuesday on Paul Finebaum's syndicated sports talk radio show in Alabama.
"This is a character assassination attempt," he said on the show. "Who is going to profit and why are they are going to profit? We sure don't.
"I think there's a group of people who have a hidden agenda and don't want to see him as a Heisman nominee, let alone winner," he said.
In Gainesville, Florida coach Urban Meyer said in a statement that neither he nor anyone on his staff leaked information on Newton's academic record, calling it a "ridiculous claim."
"For anyone to think that I or anyone on our staff may have leaked information about private student records to the media doesn't know us very well," Meyer said. "It's a ridiculous claim and simply not true."
Cam Newton said Meyer was a man of integrity.
"I would hope he wouldn't say anything like that," he said.
Meanwhile, Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops, who also recruited Newton out of Blinn, said he saw "nothing at all" out of the ordinary during that process.
"Our recruitment of Cameron could not have been better, or was just fine," Stoops said. "I didn't notice anything and none of our coaches did as we were recruiting him."
Joe Schad is a national college football reporter for ESPN. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
I want to hear these "taped calls". Lots of "unnamed sources". Nobody stepping up to say "here's the smoking gun".
If he hadn't been caught cheating and been about to get kicked out by the UF student review board, do you really think he would now be saying "I ain't gonna comment on anything". Give me a break.
If all of that was bullshyt, he and Daddy would be screaming that he is innocent, as it's something easily provable.
And just because he got a slap on the wrist because his felony theft was his first offense, doesn't make it nuthin, as if a 5 year old stole some candy.
None of this matters now, OTHER than it shows that the recruiting charges might have some merit, where a kid with a clean past, might deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Daddy is under a gag order from his attorney, and the NCAA. And UF has issued a statement that Newton was never brought up an any charges of cheating.
He didn't get a slap on the wrist, he completed pre-trial diversion for having a stolen laptop, and being a first time offender. Not candy as you stated, but hardly John Dillenger either.
He also got a bunch of traffic tickets too. Had you heard that? It's true! OH MY GOD!
The SEC and NCAA have had this info on the alleged recruiting violations...none of which implicate Auburn by the way...since January. Auburn knew about the investigation too. He's been deemed eligible to play, and plays this Saturday.
No one claimed he was brought up on charges for cheating....
The claim was, he was caught cheating and left BEFORE he had to appear before UF to explain himself.
Pretrial diversion isn't a "slap on the wrist" in your world?
And no, it's not John Dillinger stuff, but stealing and cheating are also not HEISMAN stuff...
No one claimed Auburn did anything wrong or was implicated in anything. This cat's sketchy behavior just makes the Miss State stuff more believable than had it been about some dude that was a model citizen.
If he hadn't been caught cheating and been about to get kicked out by the UF student review board, do you really think he would now be saying "I ain't gonna comment on anything". Give me a break.
If all of that was bullshyt, he and Daddy would be screaming that he is innocent, as it's something easily provable.
And just because he got a slap on the wrist because his felony theft was his first offense, doesn't make it nuthin, as if a 5 year old stole some candy.
None of this matters now, OTHER than it shows that the recruiting charges might have some merit, where a kid with a clean past, might deserve the benefit of the doubt.
Daddy is under a gag order from his attorney, and the NCAA. And UF has issued a statement that Newton was never brought up an any charges of cheating.
He didn't get a slap on the wrist, he completed pre-trial diversion for having a stolen laptop, and being a first time offender. Not candy as you stated, but hardly John Dillenger either.
He also got a bunch of traffic tickets too. Had you heard that? It's true! OH MY GOD!
The SEC and NCAA have had this info on the alleged recruiting violations...none of which implicate Auburn by the way...since January. Auburn knew about the investigation too. He's been deemed eligible to play, and plays this Saturday.
No one claimed he was brought up on charges for cheating....
The claim was, he was caught cheating and left BEFORE he had to appear before UF to explain himself.
Pretrial diversion isn't a "slap on the wrist" in your world?
And no, it's not John Dillinger stuff, but stealing and cheating are also not HEISMAN stuff...
No one claimed Auburn did anything wrong or was implicated in anything. This cat's sketchy behavior just makes the Miss State stuff more believable than had it been about some dude that was a model citizen.
Cam admits what he did with the laptop. I don't care if you call it a slap on the wrist, or a jelly donut. I call it being treated like all other similarly situated individuals charged with a similar crime. I call it a petty crime of receiving stolen property. And I do view that differently from actually stealing it. I'm sure to some that's splitting hairs, but the law views it differently too.
Again, UF's statement covered charges, and allegations...said thew were not aware of such potential charges or honor code violations. The one that broke the story, of course, has "unnamed sources". Bottom line, it's another "rumor" at this point.
If you knew "the cats" involved at MSU, then you might think their story is sketchy too. I do know one major player, namely the "alleged agent". Not well, but I've met him personally, and know his reputation, and John Bond's (the contact at MSU) reputation. It's entirely plausible the recruiting stuff was all Kenny Rogers idea, that Cam and his Dad knew nothing about it, and they Auburn did nothing wrong. When I see or hear evidence I'll consider it...until then, it's a high tech smear campaign at this point.
It's very possible the Miss State stuff is BS and I said as much in one of these threads.
Here is the quote from the article:
Quote
FoxSports.com reported Monday that Newton was caught cheating three times and was to appear for a hearing in front of Florida's Student Committee facing possible expulsion during the spring semester of 2009.
Where does it say charges were filed?
Now maybe you have seen something newer from UF, other than Urban Meyer stating that his people didn't leak anything.
Whether his crime fit the punishment or not, relative to the laptop, isn't really important as far as I am concerned, that he was involved and also potentially involved in the cheating allegations is, as I clearly stated, not behavior of someone that should be considered for the Heisman and doesn't help his case in the Miss State allegations.
The Rogers dude may indeed be a scumbag, in fact, I think it's a given. You can't deny that these other allegations don't muddy the water, however, when it comes to portraying Cam as squeaky clean.
It's very possible the Miss State stuff is BS and I said as much in one of these threads.
Here is the quote from the article:
Quote
FoxSports.com reported Monday that Newton was caught cheating three times and was to appear for a hearing in front of Florida's Student Committee facing possible expulsion during the spring semester of 2009.
Where does it say charges were filed?
Now maybe you have seen something newer from UF, other than Urban Meyer stating that his people didn't leak anything.
Whether his crime fit the punishment or not, relative to the laptop, isn't really important as far as I am concerned, that he was involved and also potentially involved in the cheating allegations is, as I clearly stated, not behavior of someone that should be considered for the Heisman and doesn't help his case in the Miss State allegations.
The Rogers dude may indeed be a scumbag, in fact, I think it's a given. You can't deny that these other allegations don't muddy the water, however, when it comes to portraying Cam as squeaky clean.
FoxSports.com writer Thayer Evans published a story today alleging Auburn quarterback Cameron Newton "had three different instances of academic cheating while attending the University of Florida." The story follows several days of editorial attacks on Newton by Thayer, a former stringer for the New York Times.
Two independent sources with detailed knowledge of the UF academic discipline system during the period in question have disputed the Evans story. According to the sources, no allegations of academic impropriety regarding Cam Newton were sent to the Florida Student Conduct Committee at any time either during or after Newton's time at UF.
"Nothing was reported, officially or unofficially" says one source, who did not wish to be identified. "The formal process is for allegations to go through the Student Conduct Committee. If [any allegations against Newton] didn't follow that process, then they didn't follow the rules." Newton enrolled at Florida in the spring of 2007 and transferred to Blinn College in January of 2009.
Per the source, no charges against Newton were ever brought to the Student Conduct Committee during that time. The source also indicated that no Florida football players have ever been officially reported to the UF Student Conduct Committee for academic violations during Urban Meyer's tenure. According to the source, student arrests are subject to additional discipline via the Student Conduct Committee, but it is not uncommon for students in such situations "to cut a deal with the Dean of Students' office before coming to the Committee." At the time of Newton's enrollment at UF, if attempts to informally settle academic disputes failed, academic violations issues were referred from the Dean of Students office to the Student Conduct Committee, where a hearing chaired by a member of the UF Honor Board would be conducted.
No charges against Newton, to the first source's knowledge, were ever sent to the UF Student Conduct Committee. A second, independently verified source, also with detailed knowledge of the Florida student disciplinary system, took issue with Thayer's assertion that Newton, had he actually been charged with academic misconduct, would have been in danger of expulsion. "I worked ten or twelve cases," the second source says, "and I never saw anyone get expelled." The second source, who also declined to be identified, also says no charges regarding Newton were ever brought to the Student Conduct Committee, noting, "If Cameron Newton would have come before the committee, we would have known about it."
The second source also expressed indignation over the possible leak of student information to the media. "That is completely confidential. We're not allowed to say anything to anyone. "The person that was in charge of [students'] academic records is a very ethical person. Someone like him would never have released anything."
So, you're right...no charges were filed...of course that makes the allegations of cheating true, because you assume that's why he left UF.
As to the Heisman, I can put you in the camp of one mistake or bad act makes him bad, and more than likely makes the recruiting allegations true, and that's all you need to say he doesn't deserve the Heisman? Ok, you're not alone. Lots of folks need nothing more than an allegation...at least you are also using a prior unrelated incident to confirm the current allegations.
So, how much does a 22 year old young man owe for possessing a stolen laptop 3 years ago? How much is he supposed to forfeit of the good things he could otherwise earn because of that? Is he forever guilty of every allegation from then on?
Also, in my admittedly biased eyes, the fact that Bob Stoops has stated there were no issues with Cam's recruitment at OU tells me that if there's any smoke or fire causing it, it's in Starkville, MS and a problem related to one of their rogue alum, not Cecil Newton selling his son to the highest bidder.
Cam's cleared to play at Auburn, and that's fine with me. BTW, the general consensus among most media types is that they will still vote Cam for the Heisman unless they see some real evidence.
So tired of hearing about this on sports talk shows. Here locally in Alabama you would think there is absolutely nothing else going on in the world of sports.
I'm a Bama fan and really hope all of these charges are proved false fairly quick. It just takes so much away from the game. I'm afraid though this will be a very drawn out investigation that may or may not prove anything, all the while the kid is getting blasted in the media wether he is guilty or not.
Also...here's the story alleging the cheating, which says:
The source said Newton was to appear for a hearing in front of Florida�s Student Conduct Committee during the spring semester of 2009 but instead transferred to Blinn College.
The committee could have levied sanctions against Newton that included suspension and expulsion from the university.
�He knew that he was facing a bad outcome,� the source said.
I don't know how to read that any way other than the Student Conduct Committee already had charges to consider. Other sources cited in the one I posted deny any charges.
Numerous factors played into the decision to leave, Cecil said, including playing time and the search for a fresh start after a November arrest for allegedly stealing a student�s laptop and throwing it out of his dorm window.
after facing three felony counts for the arrest. Newton is expected to be treated as a first-time offender with at least one charge dropped, according to a source.
Sounds like they had trouble proving the theft so they stuck with the possession and whatever throwing out the window is? Destroying evidence? Doesn't mean he didn't steal it, only that they could only prove he had it, knew it was stolen and attempted to hide the fact.
You know as well as I, that transferring to JC when you've already qualified, are at a major program like UF and are considered a highly sought after recruit, is very rare unless one has reason to believe no one will touch you. If you just received stolen property and have zero other issues, that's not going to scare off other suitors.
I'd simply be curious to see how Cecil Newton's church went so recently from being "broke and about to be condemned" to "newly renovated" ...
I'll sit on the sidelines and say nothing until evidence is presented either way ... but there's a good bit of stuff floating out there, which usually means something ... just what, I don't know.
If none of this is true, then someone must have a serious axe to grind with the Newton family to have orchestrated all these different allegations that appear to be coming from separate, independent sources as well as known individuals like Bond and Rodgers ...
So tired of hearing about this on sports talk shows. Here locally in Alabama you would think there is absolutely nothing else going on in the world of sports.
I'm a Bama fan and really hope all of these charges are proved false fairly quick. It just takes so much away from the game. I'm afraid though this will be a very drawn out investigation that may or may not prove anything, all the while the kid is getting blasted in the media wether he is guilty or not.
Yep, and since you can't prove a negative...Cam will always be considered guilty by some regardless.
BTW, if Cam and his dad were on the market...[bleep] em both...if Auburn is ever found to have paid, then Auburn deserves whatever it gets.
I'd simply be curious to see how Cecil Newton's church went so recently from being "broke and about to be condemned" to "newly renovated" ...
I'll sit on the sidelines and say nothing until evidence is presented either way ... but there's a good bit of stuff floating out there, which usually means something ... just what, I don't know.
If none of this is true, then someone must have a serious axe to grind with the Newton family to have orchestrated all these different allegations that appear to be coming from separate, independent sources as well as known individuals like Bond and Rodgers ...
I think this schitbag Kenny Rogers tried to broker a deal on his own then get the Newtons to accept it. Get his alma mater a good QB, and make him a profit in the process...when Bond reported it, the deal went sour, and ended there. Meaning no money trail, and nothing but "he said, he said" in the end.
Also, in my admittedly biased eyes, the fact that Bob Stoops has stated there were no issues with Cam's recruitment at OU tells me that if there's any smoke or fire causing it, it's in Starkville, MS and a problem related to one of their rogue alum, not Cecil Newton selling his son to the highest bidder.
280Rem, if Bob Stoops said anything but that, I would be shocked. Ain't no HC in a BCS program wants anything to do with this kinda stink. Even if this Rogers cat approached Bob Stoops and said "I want $50k", Stoops never heard that conversation...ever.
The only thing I find humorous is how folks will stand behind 'news' articles/reports when it aligns with their preconceived notions and then damn the same 'liberal' press when said articles run counter of persons notions.
that still doesn't address how Cecil Newton's church seemingly came into a LOT of money very quickly, right about the same time that Cam ended up back in D1 football at AU ...
that's my main point ... SOMETHING went on there ... just what, and who's involved, and whether or not it can ever be proven is a completely different story ...
I don't think it passes the "smell test", but then again I can't prove anything either ... but, the whole "walks like a duck, quacks like a duck" thing does come to mind ...
Numerous factors played into the decision to leave, Cecil said, including playing time and the search for a fresh start after a November arrest for allegedly stealing a student�s laptop and throwing it out of his dorm window.
after facing three felony counts for the arrest. Newton is expected to be treated as a first-time offender with at least one charge dropped, according to a source.
Sounds like they had trouble proving the theft so they stuck with the possession and whatever throwing out the window is? Destroying evidence? Doesn't mean he didn't steal it, only that they could only prove he had it, knew it was stolen and attempted to hide the fact.
You know as well as I, that transferring to JC when you've already qualified, are at a major program like UF and are considered a highly sought after recruit, is very rare unless one has reason to believe no one will touch you. If you just received stolen property and have zero other issues, that's not going to scare off other suitors.
Ok, you got it nailed. I see now where the likes of Thayer Evans find their market.
I don't really have much of an opinion as to whether he is innocent/guilty regarding all these allegations, as I really don't care. It does seem a bit goofy to me, however, that all of a sudden multiple allegations are being presented. Seems a little fishy to me.
The biggest thing that's starting to get on my nerves is that everyday it seems someone is making a new allegation/claim. Someone is clearly, and terribly wrong over this whole ordeal, whether it be the Newtons or the media, Mississippi State, or whoever. I personally hope the Newtons are in the clear, as it does nothing for the sport if they are in the wrong. However, if the Newtons did do something illegal, I'd hope they would just admit to it and disappear from college football.
I may be one of the few to feel this way, but I'm all for LaMichael James for the Heisman Trophy. In my opinion, I think he is the most deserving of the award this season. By far a more electrifying player than Cam Newton. Then again, I hate that the Heisman has pretty much become an All-QB award as of late.
I don't really have much of an opinion as to whether he is innocent/guilty regarding all these allegations, as I really don't care. It does seem a bit goofy to me, however, that all of a sudden multiple allegations are being presented. Seems a little fishy to me.
The biggest thing that's starting to get on my nerves is that everyday it seems someone is making a new allegation/claim. Someone is clearly, and terribly wrong over this whole ordeal, whether it be the Newtons or the media, Mississippi State, or whoever. I personally hope the Newtons are in the clear, as it does nothing for the sport if they are in the wrong. However, if the Newtons did do something illegal, I'd hope they would just admit to it and disappear from college football.
I may be one of the few to feel this way, but I'm all for LaMichael James for the Heisman Trophy. In my opinion, I think he is the most deserving of the award this season. By far a more electrifying player than Cam Newton. Then again, I hate that the Heisman has pretty much become an All-QB award as of late.
Debate all day who is more electrifying. It's an opinion.
But just to be clear, you're talking about this LaMichael James?
Eugene (KMTR) � University of Oregon football player LaMichael James has been sentenced for harassment.
In a Lane County Circuit Court hearing Friday morning, James was sentenced to serve 10 days in jail, with credit for one day already served, 24 months of probation and he is to have no contact with the victim.
After processing, captains at the jail said Friday that James qualified to serve his time being monitored with an electronic bracelet.
James had previously pleaded not guilty to charges arising from an altercation with a woman outside his apartment last month. At the time, James was arrested on charges of strangulation, assault and harassment.
In court Friday morning, he agreed to change his plea to guilty on one count of harassment. The other charges were dropped.
In court, James apologized, saying the victim bears no responsibility for the incident.
�I am so sorry that she has been treated by some people as though she deserved blame for this. She does not. I ask people to treat her with respect. She has not done anything wrong," James said.
Coach Chip Kelly announced Friday afternoon that James will get a one-game suspension.
I thought pretty much anyone who has followed any inkling of college football the past year knew of those charges against James, and he is guilty as charged. By far, he's not a model citizen, though he has been punished both criminally by courts and by his team. He's served his athletic punishment (1 game suspension), and is currently on probation I believe.
I personally applaud Chip Kelly and the Oregon program for not putting up with players crap and suspending or dismissing players when and where they see fit. They took care of Blount last season, and he booted Masoli's sorry ass prior to this season.
I'm well aware it's just an opinion about who should be the Heisman winner, and that's mine. I highly doubt I'll be changing that anytime soon, either.
It just seems fishy to me than all of this stuff seems to pop out of nowhere all of a sudden regarding Newton, and I'm honestly a bit unsure of what to make of it. Doesn't seem to be enough evidence for either side, yet.
A reporter on ESPN said it best, I think: "Where there is smoke, there is usually fire. And right now, there is a heckuva lot of smoke around Cam Newton."
that still doesn't address how Cecil Newton's church seemingly came into a LOT of money very quickly, right about the same time that Cam ended up back in D1 football at AU ...
that's my main point ... SOMETHING went on there ... just what, and who's involved, and whether or not it can ever be proven is a completely different story ...
I don't think it passes the "smell test", but then again I can't prove anything either ... but, the whole "walks like a duck, quacks like a duck" thing does come to mind ...
Cecil Newton has turned over the financial records of his churches to the SEC/NCAA.
But people give donations to churches all the time, anonymously ... If one Sunday there was a $200K donation to the church during the service, that would be very obvious ... but lots of smaller donations over time - anonymously - would be damn near impossible to track because there would be no records of them anyway.
All I'm getting at is that the story I was told, is that the church was about to be condemned for numerous code violations that had existed for some time, and Cecil Newton had not shown any signs of finding any money to correct said violations ... then, all of a sudden, the church is getting some high-dollar renovations to bring it up to code, as well as make other improvements beyond simple code requirements.
If that story is wrong, and you know the real story, please let me know because I don't have a source for anything other than what I just posted that I heard. But if what I heard is true, wouldn't you admit that's just as "fishy" as anything else?
But people give donations to churches all the time, anonymously ... If one Sunday there was a $200K donation to the church during the service, that would be very obvious ... but lots of smaller donations over time - anonymously - would be damn near impossible to track because there would be no records of them anyway.
All I'm getting at is that the story I was told, is that the church was about to be condemned for numerous code violations that had existed for some time, and Cecil Newton had not shown any signs of finding any money to correct said violations ... then, all of a sudden, the church is getting some high-dollar renovations to bring it up to code, as well as make other improvements beyond simple code requirements.
If that story is wrong, and you know the real story, please let me know because I don't have a source for anything other than what I just posted that I heard. But if what I heard is true, wouldn't you admit that's just as "fishy" as anything else?
Certainly acknowledge the suspicion it would raise. I guess you acknowledge that if done the way you say, and it can't be proved, then some will always say it was just well hidden, and others will defend it?
I don't have anything on that handy...I'll try to find it, but I think that in time, the money for this church showed up before any of the alleged issues at MSU ever happened. But again, I don't have that information.
Bottom line is that we know Cam had a stolen laptop 3 years ago, and he was charged and treated like others.
After that, we have unnamed sources coming out, from 2 schools...one that lost Cam to transfer, and one that lost the 2nd recruiting battle with him. This was reported by MSU to the SEC in January...meaning, as I understand the time line, they continued to recruit him amid these "alleged solicitations" then "reported them" after he committed to Auburn. I know that both Bond and Rogers are widely considered slimy pieces of schit...and I've met Rogers and can confirm that as to him. Don't know if you're old enough to remember Bond's playing days at MSU in the early 80s...I am. Real maverick type...long hair, outspoken, always "rumored in mischief"...even said the other day on a radio show "I'm glad the internet wasn't around during my recruitment". If you saw the ESPN thing last night on Marcus Dupree, then you know what it was like then (early 80s).
All I ask is someone show me the smoking gun...let me hear these supposed taped calls. What you have now, is many making their suppositions like Foxbat is...couching it as "the intelligent logic based on the allegations, and one known indiscretion".
I can't believe he got three strikes on the cheating front before it wound up in a hearing.
A classmate of mine in college used a grey area on an exam in the computer GIS lab when the professor said we could use all online resources and he had someone email him the test.
I can't believe he got three strikes on the cheating front before it wound up in a hearing.
A classmate of mine in college used a grey area on an exam in the computer GIS lab when the professor said we could use all online resources and he had someone email him the test.
He was booted from the university. End of story.
And this post is prime evidence of how this crap goes. Nathan...he was never charged with anything regarding cheating, never brought up before the student honor court. NEVER.
I can't believe he got three strikes on the cheating front before it wound up in a hearing.
A classmate of mine in college used a grey area on an exam in the computer GIS lab when the professor said we could use all online resources and he had someone email him the test.
He was booted from the university. End of story.
Well, some college football programs will kick your ass off the team for a DUI, others will suspend you for 2 quarters....
Not all animals are equal at the University farm, least of all when it involves those that play football.
* There are no new facts since reported to the SEC in Jan
* NCAA was notified in June.
* Auburn has been involved with the NCAA in the case.
* The case is apparently still open or else the NCAA or Auburn would comment on it. There is a gag order on open cases.
* Jacobs (athletic director) and Chizik announced that unequivocally Cam Newton is eligible to play football at Auburn.
I believe the last fact is very critical. It would be suicide for the AD and head coach to make such statements if there was any indication what so ever from the NCAA of wrong doing and possible ineligibility .
I can't believe he got three strikes on the cheating front before it wound up in a hearing.
A classmate of mine in college used a grey area on an exam in the computer GIS lab when the professor said we could use all online resources and he had someone email him the test.
He was booted from the university. End of story.
And this post is prime evidence of how this crap goes. Nathan...he was never charged with anything regarding cheating, never brought up before the student honor court. NEVER.
I just wish I could live under his rules apparently. Ever notice how it just happens to follow some people around and don't say it's because he has a chance to win the heiseman because there have been lots of those in the past with clean records.
I'm a believer in innocent until proven guilty but when you look at his body of work and where he wound up you gotta start asking questions.
I can't believe the university even has a review board on cheating. I didn't go to school that long ago. So to say the rumor is he left before he went before the review board is just as appaling to me even if he didn't cheat. What happened to someone in charge saying you cheated, you are gone.
* There are no new facts since reported to the SEC in Jan
* NCAA was notified in June.
* Auburn has been involved with the NCAA in the case.
* The case is apparently still open or else the NCAA or Auburn would comment on it. There is a gag order on open cases.
* Jacobs (athletic director) and Chizik announced that unequivocally Cam Newton is elligible to play football at Auburn.
I believe the last fact is very critical. It would be suicide for the AD and head coach to make such statements if there was any indication what so ever from the NCAA of wrong doing and possible ineligibility .
I have a hard time believing that if the SEC or NCAA thought, based on any evidence that Newton or Auburn had any culpability that could affect his eligibility, that Newton would have been declared ineligible pending investigation, or Auburn wouldn't have risked playing him.
I can't believe he got three strikes on the cheating front before it wound up in a hearing.
A classmate of mine in college used a grey area on an exam in the computer GIS lab when the professor said we could use all online resources and he had someone email him the test.
He was booted from the university. End of story.
And this post is prime evidence of how this crap goes. Nathan...he was never charged with anything regarding cheating, never brought up before the student honor court. NEVER.
I just wish I could live under his rules apparently. Ever notice how it just happens to follow some people around and don't say it's because he has a chance to win the heiseman because there have been lots of those in the past with clean records.
I'm a believer in innocent until proven guilty but when you look at his body of work and where he wound up you gotta start asking questions.
I can't believe the university even has a review board on cheating. I didn't go to school that long ago. So to say the rumor is he left before he went before the review board is just as appaling to me even if he didn't cheat. What happened to someone in charge saying you cheated, you are gone.
What Body of Work (as in known indiscretions) do you look at to say that?
A classmate of mine in college used a grey area on an exam in the computer GIS lab when the professor said we could use all online resources and he had someone email him the test.
He was booted from the university. End of story.
Now there is a story with a happy ending!!! Like to see more of that, but sadly, it is rarer than it should be.
* There are no new facts since reported to the SEC in Jan
* NCAA was notified in June.
* Auburn has been involved with the NCAA in the case.
* The case is apparently still open or else the NCAA or Auburn would comment on it. There is a gag order on open cases.
* Jacobs (athletic director) and Chizik announced that unequivocally Cam Newton is elligible to play football at Auburn.
I believe the last fact is very critical. It would be suicide for the AD and head coach to make such statements if there was any indication what so ever from the NCAA of wrong doing and possible ineligibility .
I have a hard time believing that if the SEC or NCAA thought, based on any evidence that Newton or Auburn had any culpability that could affect his eligibility, that Newton would have been declared ineligible pending investigation, or Auburn wouldn't have risked playing him.
Let's say that he is found guilty of trying to shop Miss. State for money and the SEC agrees. You think that will have an impact on Auburn's record if they can't make a connection with Auburn?
Not likely. If I was Auburn I wouldn't have not played him either even knowing he had past problems.
The only thing I find humorous is how folks will stand behind 'news' articles/reports when it aligns with their preconceived notions and then damn the same 'liberal' press when said articles run counter of persons notions.
And here I thought I was the only person that noticed...
* There are no new facts since reported to the SEC in Jan
* NCAA was notified in June.
* Auburn has been involved with the NCAA in the case.
* The case is apparently still open or else the NCAA or Auburn would comment on it. There is a gag order on open cases.
* Jacobs (athletic director) and Chizik announced that unequivocally Cam Newton is elligible to play football at Auburn.
I believe the last fact is very critical. It would be suicide for the AD and head coach to make such statements if there was any indication what so ever from the NCAA of wrong doing and possible ineligibility .
I have a hard time believing that if the SEC or NCAA thought, based on any evidence that Newton or Auburn had any culpability that could affect his eligibility, that Newton would have been declared ineligible pending investigation, or Auburn wouldn't have risked playing him.
Let's say that he is found guilty of trying to shop Miss. State for money and the SEC agrees. You think that will have an impact on Auburn's record if they can't make a connection with Auburn?
Not likely. If I was Auburn I wouldn't have not played him either even knowing he had past problems.
As I understand the rules, if it can be proved he (or someone on his behalf and he knew about it) was ever asking for money from ANY school, he's ineligible period. Auburn would basically vacate all wins in 2010 whether they paid money or not.
Since this has been known about for nearly a year, your last sentence tells me that Auburn was highly confident in playing him. It's not disputed that Auburn knew about it before he singed his LOI.
Shyt, the NCAA didn't even declare the UNC kids ineligible pending investigation. That ain't there thing, when there is only rumors.
He's eligible and should be, barring actual proof to the contrary, which I doubt will ever surface.
Bryce Brown had a street agent asking UM for shyt. UM walked away, not wanting anything to do with that shyt, so Bryce Brown went to Tennessee. NCAA never declared him ineligible and finally cleared him prior to him stabbing Tennessee in the back.
This stuff happens all the time, there's just seldom enough for the NCAA to find, unless the bagman get's nailed on State or Federal charges for something else and sings.
Since this has been known about for nearly a year, your last sentence tells me that Auburn was highly confident in playing him. It's not disputed that Auburn knew about it before he singed his LOI.
Exactly, and there are no new facts since then. If all of this was on the table and there was any significant risk of ineligibilty, everyone at Auburn is a moron. I just can't believe they would be that stupid.
Shyt, the NCAA didn't even declare the UNC kids ineligible pending investigation. That ain't there thing, when there is only rumors.
He's eligible and should be, barring actual proof to the contrary, which I doubt will ever surface.
Bryce Brown had a street agent asking UM for shyt. UM walked away, not wanting anything to do with that shyt, so Bryce Brown went to Tennessee. NCAA never declared him ineligible and finally cleared him prior to him stabbing Tennessee in the back.
This stuff happens all the time, there's just seldom enough for the NCAA to find, unless the bagman get's nailed on State or Federal charges for something else and sings.
But he shouldn't win the Heisman, just in case he's guilty?
If you've been paying attention, most Heisman voters are going the route of "if he's guilty, and it's found out down the road, the Heisman trust can take it back, but it would be a bigger crime to not give it too him based on rumors and speculation if they can never be proved true or he can be proved innocent."
Since this has been known about for nearly a year, your last sentence tells me that Auburn was highly confident in playing him. It's not disputed that Auburn knew about it before he singed his LOI.
Exactly, and there are no new facts since then. If all of this was on the table and there was any significant risk of ineligibilty, everyone at Auburn is a moron. I just can't believe they would be that stupid.
Auburn's compliance folks are pretty stringent. Recently turned down a pretty big Basketball recruit because of similar issues.
Shyt, the NCAA didn't even declare the UNC kids ineligible pending investigation. That ain't there thing, when there is only rumors.
He's eligible and should be, barring actual proof to the contrary, which I doubt will ever surface.
Bryce Brown had a street agent asking UM for shyt. UM walked away, not wanting anything to do with that shyt, so Bryce Brown went to Tennessee. NCAA never declared him ineligible and finally cleared him prior to him stabbing Tennessee in the back.
This stuff happens all the time, there's just seldom enough for the NCAA to find, unless the bagman get's nailed on State or Federal charges for something else and sings.
But he shouldn't win the Heisman, just in case he's guilty?
If you've been paying attention, most Heisman voters are going the route of "if he's guilty, and it's found out down the road, the Heisman trust can take it back, but it would be a bigger crime to not give it too him based on rumors and speculation if they can never be proved true or he can be proved innocent."
The theft and cheating wouldn't make him ineligible now. They could be factors in a Heisman award. Two different issues.
I just hope SC gets another shot at Cam/Auburn and the SEC Championship! I know AUB has a lot of talent but frankly it wouldn't be the same without him in that game!
Honestly, 280, you should worry more about winning the NC than worrying about defending Cam's honor to win the Hypesman.
The Hypesman curse is a bitch.
I'm more concerned about Auburn University than Cam, or the Heisman. Folks trying to take Cam down, would love to see Auburn in trouble too. It's not the Heisman, but that was mentioned here...you made it an issue I think. As long as Cam is eligible to play, and it seems he is, and will be, then everything else should work itself out. Clearly, knowing that Auburn knew about this in January, tells me that someone else, someone with an axe to grind, timed this release of information that is months old to coincide with Auburn's home stretch run.
My take on it is that this is just sour grapes on MS State's part.
They really wanted this guy and Cam pretty much said he was on board with going to Starkville. Daddy comes in and says "I don't think so". Fast forward a ways and Cam is having an amazing season and despite what Mullen has done for State's program folks can't help but wonder "what if?" in regard to Newton being on the team. Feelings get hurt, someone gets mad and the hair starts to fly.
Just for the record, I'm pretty sure all major programs "cheat" in regards to landing certain athletes. I wish no one did but I don't think that will ever be a reality.
I really appreciate the irony with of all this happening while the latest episode of ESPN's 30 for 30 aired, a piece about Marcus DuPree. Highly coveted player, reneged on initial commitment and had a pastor/mentor running the show for him.
I'm more concerned about Auburn University than Cam, or the Heisman. Folks trying to take Cam down, would love to see Auburn in trouble too. It's not the Heisman, but that was mentioned here...you made it an issue I think. As long as Cam is eligible to play, and it seems he is, and will be, then everything else should work itself out. Clearly, knowing that Auburn knew about this in January, tells me that someone else, someone with an axe to grind, timed this release of information that is months old to coincide with Auburn's home stretch run.
Well, if you were looking for someone that might benefit... who's most likely to be playing Auburn in the SECCG? which just happens to be the same alleged source of the cheating issue.
There is a rumor out there though, that Cam had a girlfriend that felt a little jilted... which would make this less conspiratorial.
Certainly acknowledge the suspicion it would raise. I guess you acknowledge that if done the way you say, and it can't be proved, then some will always say it was just well hidden, and others will defend it?
I totally agree with you ... suspicions will abound, unless/until someone can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Newton and his family didn't engage in anything illegal re: recruiting and/or his eligibility.
We both know that in instances like this, it really doesn't matter what cheating goes on unless you can PROVE it ... and we both know that ALL universities break recruiting violations every year. But again, it's about being able to prove it that determines whether or not anything is done about it.
My opinion, for what it's worth (not much), is that Newton's family got paid by someone, somehow ... but being able to prove it is likely not going to happen - and Auburn knows that - or at least is pretty damn sure there's no way to prove it ... and that's why they have no problem with Cam being on the team, and are not worried about this (at least that's how they would have it appear to be) ...
a 'for instance' ... OJ Simpson was found not guilty in the double murder case ... but that doesn't mean that everyone thinks he didn't do it. That's kinda what I'm getting at here ... I think Newton got paid, and was involved in things that would result in him being ineligible should they be proven ...
but the way it appears now, it won't be proven, and it's just going to smear his name a bit until time erodes it away ...
My take on it is that this is just sour grapes on MS State's part.
They really wanted this guy and Cam pretty much said he was on board with going to Starkville. Daddy comes in and says "I don't think so". Fast forward a ways and Cam is having an amazing season and despite what Mullen has done for State's program folks can't help but wonder "what if?" in regard to Newton being on the team. Feelings get hurt, someone gets mad and the hair starts to fly.
Just for the record, I'm pretty sure all major programs "cheat" in regards to landing certain athletes. I wish no one did but I don't think that will ever be a reality.
I really appreciate the irony with of all this happening while the latest episode of ESPN's 30 for 30 aired, a piece about Marcus DuPree. Highly coveted player, reneged on initial commitment and had a pastor/mentor running the show for him.
Nail
I watched that last night too. It was pretty much anything goes back in the day it seems. When I heard that Ole Miss recruiter relay that he'd told his AD it would take $150K to get Dupree, I thought, "schit, that's 1982 dollars, and Cam was going cheap at $180K in 2010".
What I liked about one of the OU coaches...he said something to the effect of "if one school was offering this, you had to find something more to offer to beat them" and not "you got to run tell on them". Now I don't condone the cheating...but there was sort of an unspoken truce then...and as long as you were "within the normal window" you were ok with all the other coaches.
What's sad is that all these elite athletes have folks hanging on trying to profit off them for doing absolutely nothing but knowing them, including blood kin willing to sell them out.
I wonder what this must be doing to Newton's ability to concentrate on winning football games. The whole "scandal" has a sour grapes/vendetta smell about it, but who knows.
But if the kid screws the pooch in the SEC title game and Oregon loses, and LSU wins out.....the BCS will put the Mad Hatter in the NC game, cementing his reputation as the luckiest human on the planet.
My take on it is that this is just sour grapes on MS State's part.
They really wanted this guy and Cam pretty much said he was on board with going to Starkville. Daddy comes in and says "I don't think so". Fast forward a ways and Cam is having an amazing season and despite what Mullen has done for State's program folks can't help but wonder "what if?" in regard to Newton being on the team. Feelings get hurt, someone gets mad and the hair starts to fly.
Just for the record, I'm pretty sure all major programs "cheat" in regards to landing certain athletes. I wish no one did but I don't think that will ever be a reality.
I really appreciate the irony with of all this happening while the latest episode of ESPN's 30 for 30 aired, a piece about Marcus DuPree. Highly coveted player, reneged on initial commitment and had a pastor/mentor running the show for him.
Nail
I watched that last night too. It was pretty much anything goes back in the day it seems. When I heard that Ole Miss recruiter relay that he'd told his AD it would take $150K to get Dupree, I thought, "schit, that's 1982 dollars, and Cam was going cheap at $180K in 2010".
What I liked about one of the OU coaches...he said something to the effect of "if one school was offering this, you had to find something more to offer to beat them" and not "you got to run tell on them". Now I don't condone the cheating...but there was sort of an unspoken truce then...and as long as you were "within the normal window" you were ok with all the other coaches.
What's sad is that all these elite athletes have folks hanging on trying to profit off them for doing absolutely nothing but knowing them, including blood kin willing to sell them out.
I don't think I even knew what football was when the whole DuPree thing happened, so it was very much news/intriguing to me.
Man, that kid was a stud! It was kind of like watching highlights of Herschel Walker from his Georgia days. Just terrible the way the whole ordeal played out though, even with the semi-happy ending.
I wonder what this must be doing to Newton's ability to concentrate on winning football games. The whole "scandal" has a sour grapes/vendetta smell about it, but who knows.
But if the kid screws the pooch in the SEC title game and Oregon loses, and LSU wins out.....the BCS will put the Mad Hatter in the NC game, cementing his reputation as the luckiest human on the planet.
Oregon will drop at least one...
And, I think the Iron Bowl will be rather interesting (putting it mildly) this year.
Maybe sour grapes but what does Miss. State have to gain? No one knows but if it was sour grapes I would think it would be originiating from a school that could benefit from his ineligibility or Auburn forfeiting.
Maybe sour grapes but what does Miss. State have to gain? No one knows but if it was sour grapes I would think it would be originiating from a school that could benefit from his ineligibility or Auburn forfeiting.
Like maybe a school that still stands a chance of going to Atlanta...a school where MSU's coach used to coach...a school where Cam used to play...a school where the coach looks like a fool for letting Cam go? Some school like that?
What I've seen nobody say here is that it's been reported (like all the other reports here...unnamed sources) that Meyer, Mullen, and Bond had a 3 way call, where Meyer urged this to be disclosed publicly.
Then again, it's also being speculated that MSU believes it may have NCAA problems, and may be trying to get this out to make themselves look above board. Bottom line...like all the rest, it's rumor, innuendo, and speculation.
I hope they figure it out one way or the other pretty quick. I'd hate to see him be tainted with accusations if there is nothing to back them up. If he's guilty, then he'd have to pay the price.
It's funny thatmost of the fans from Auburn don't care whether any of this is true or not, but maybe I'd feel the same way if it was an Arkansas kid.
It's not shocking that there is a pay to play scandal going on in college football. It happens at a lot of schools, Auburn is just one of those unlucky ones to have been caught before.
What bothers me more than the pay to play is the stealing of another students paper. It's one thing to buy one and put your name on it, but to take someone elses and put your name on shows a lot about your character. I guess he didn't care that the student would receive a zero for not turning in a paper.
Another thing that bothers me is why do 5 star athletes use the services of an agent to get them a scholarship with schools that are already recruiting them? Who's paying the agent and what are they paying him for? Auburn has several 5 stars that came to them through an agent. Why?
Another thing that bothers me is why do 5 star athletes use the services of an agent to get them a scholarship with schools that are already recruiting them? Who's paying the agent and what are they paying him for? Auburn has several 5 stars that came to them through an agent. Why?
Bo and Cam get mentioned in the same breath a lot these days.
Does anyone know how Vincent Jackson got the name "Bo"?
I believe everyone can agree that Bo is as good as they get......now.
I went to school with Bo when we were growing up. According to Bo,it was because people thought he was as wild as a wild boar,bo for short. That's what he said anyway.
It's funny thatmost of the fans from Auburn don't care whether any of this is true or not, but maybe I'd feel the same way if it was an Arkansas kid.
Apparently you've heard different Auburn people weigh in than I have. HUGE difference in asking for proof vs. not caring if it's true. But then after reading the your entire post, I can see how you come to this conclusion.
Originally Posted by Kodiakisland
It's not shocking that there is a pay to play scandal going on in college football. It happens at a lot of schools, Auburn is just one of those unlucky ones to have been caught before.
Yes, Auburn last got caught over 20 years ago giving a player grocery and bill money when he came begging for it with a tape recorder in his pocket.
Originally Posted by Kodiakisland
What bothers me more than the pay to play is the stealing of another students paper. It's one thing to buy one and put your name on it, but to take someone elses and put your name on shows a lot about your character. I guess he didn't care that the student would receive a zero for not turning in a paper.
What bothers me is that it seems so common that many, like yourself, just accept as fact that he stole another student's paper based on conflicting reports of "unnamed sources" out of Gainsville. Again, I see where hacks like Thayer Evans find their readership.
Originally Posted by Kodiakisland
Another thing that bothers me is why do 5 star athletes use the services of an agent to get them a scholarship with schools that are already recruiting them? Who's paying the agent and what are they paying him for? Auburn has several 5 stars that came to them through an agent. Why?
Wow! Just WOW! Auburn has several players on the roster that came to them through illegal agents? Fuggin' WOW! I can tell discussing proof, or evidence with you on this matter would be beating my head against a wall.
I went to school with Bo when we were growing up. According to Bo,it was because people thought he was a wild as a wild boar,bo for short. That's what he said anyway.
Mean as a boar hog, so they called him "Bo". I've heard stories striaght from Bo's mouth of him beating up kids and stealing from them, and that only scratches the surface. Cam's cheating and computer saga was Bo on a good day.
My point is simply this. At some point a boy becomes a man. Lets hope Cam has reached that point and all indications are that he has.
First off, take the blinders off. I realize you're a homer for Auburn, but you still have to see whats going on. Like I said, I'd probably feel the same way if it was an Arkansas kid, but hopefully I could look at it objectively. Why do you think he really left Florida. Really.
No where at all did I say these agents are illegal. They should be, but they're not. There are a lot of them out there and I'd like to know why the NCAA allows them and where the money trail is. Pinnacle Preps is one here in Arkansas that is pretty shady at best. Tell me, why do 5 star players need an agent to secure a scholarship? I can understand one or two star players using them, but five stars? They already have a scholarship offer, what is the agent getting them?
First off, take the blinders off. I realize you're a homer for Auburn, but you still have to see whats going on. Like I said, I'd probably feel the same way if it was an Arkansas kid, but hopefully I could look at it objectively. Why do you think he really left Florida. Really.
No where at all did I say these agents are illegal. They should be, but they're not. There are a lot of them out there and I'd like to know why the NCAA allows them and where the money trail is. Pinnacle Preps is one here in Arkansas that is pretty shady at best. Tell me, why do 5 star players need an agent to secure a scholarship? I can understand one or two star players using them, but five stars? They already have a scholarship offer, what is the agent getting them?
As I said, proof not needed for some. I have blinders on because I don't read allegations and take them as fact? Ok then.
Why he left Florida? Do you know or just suspect? Because if you KNOW, I'd like to know. I don't.
And yes, agents are illegal. What rock have you been living under?
No, agents for high school kids are not illegal. If they were you'd have to sit Dyer, as he came to Auburn through Pinnacle Preps, which I'm sure you already know. Frazier uses them too. What are they getting the players beyond a scholarship?
I went to school with Bo when we were growing up. According to Bo,it was because people thought he was a wild as a wild boar,bo for short. That's what he said anyway.
Mean as a boar hog, so they called him "Bo". I've heard stories striaght from Bo's mouth of him beating up kids and stealing from them, and that only scratches the surface. Cam's cheating and computer saga was Bo on a good day.
My point is simply this. At some point a boy becomes a man. Lets hope Cam has reached that point and all indications are that he has.
I know a coach that was in the room when this happened.
Coach Dye was having a recruiting meeting. He was getting updates from the other coaches on kids being considered. He got to Coach Joe Whitt...survived the coaching changes of Dye to Bowden, and Bowden to Tuberville...he was a fixture. Anyway, Whitt starts talking about this kid that's an average player...but says "he's a good kid". Dye slammed his fist on the table, causing it to shake, and spill drinks, and screamed "F*ck a good kid...good kids beat Vanderbilt and Kentucky...I wan't mean [bleep]*ckers".
No, agents for high school kids are not illegal. If they were you'd have to sit Dyer, as he came to Auburn through Pinnacle Preps, which I'm sure you already know. Frazier uses them too. What are they getting the players beyond a scholarship?
Agents are illegal. Pinnacle preps is one of those sleazy deals that walks the fringe. But they, at least in theory, don't meet the definition of "agent".
Your lack of desire for proof and evidence is dumbfounding. Calling me a homer Auburn fan to deflect from your comments, for my merely demanding proof of allegations is laughable.
Auburn is dirty. They paid Newton. Everyone knows it. Nothing they or he can ever say will change it regardless of the outcome of the investigation. The court of public opinion has spoken.
It's obvious that someone is pissed off. To me it reeks of more than the loss of a bidding/benefit war and a kid going to another school. I'm not saying that didn't happen, but this is way to crazy and nasty for that to be all. Someone was screwed out of money. Maybe State did pay Rogers but Rogers didn't deliver Cam.
They are paid represent a student to a college to secure a scholarship. If you want to pretend thats not an agent, go ahead. I'd still like to know what they are doing for 5 star athletes who already have a scholarship offer. What did they do for Dyer and Frazier that wasn't already offered?
As to why Cam left Florida. Who knows the real reason. It certainly had nothing to do with Tebow staying one more year. Stolen lap tops, stolen papers, who knows. Maybe something thats yet to come to light.
Don't worry though, I'm sure the FBI and the NCAA will let us know if this was all made up or not.
Coach Dye was having a recruiting meeting. He was getting updates from the other coaches on kids being considered. He got to Coach Joe Whitt...survived the coaching changes of Dye to Bowden, and Bowden to Tuberville...he was a fixture. Anyway, Whitt starts talking about this kid that's an average player...but says "he's a good kid". Dye slammed his fist on the table, causing it to shake, and spill drinks, and screamed "F*ck a good kid...good kids beat Vanderbilt and Kentucky...I wan't mean [bleep]*ckers".
It's obvious that someone is pissed off. To me it reeks of more than the loss of a bidding/benefit war and a kid going to another school. I'm not saying that didn't happen, but this is way to crazy and nasty for that to be all. Someone was screwed out of money. Maybe State did pay Rogers but Rogers didn't deliver Cam.
Something went on, I agree. What is, what isn't, who is guilty and who isn't, and what can be proved are entirely different questions.
I went to school with Bo when we were growing up. According to Bo,it was because people thought he was a wild as a wild boar,bo for short. That's what he said anyway.
Mean as a boar hog, so they called him "Bo". I've heard stories striaght from Bo's mouth of him beating up kids and stealing from them, and that only scratches the surface. Cam's cheating and computer saga was Bo on a good day.
My point is simply this. At some point a boy becomes a man. Lets hope Cam has reached that point and all indications are that he has.
I only saw Bo hit one kid,one day during Athletics,Bo slapped Jimmy Bunn,left a big hand print on Jimmy's face. Jimmy desperately needed slapping and I had often thought of doing it myself.
But he was not a mean predatory kid,we had plenty of those but I never saw Bo in that role. Bo and I were both favorites of a kind teacher named Mary Anchors,if Bo had been a mean jerk,I would have known.
I went to school with Bo when we were growing up. According to Bo,it was because people thought he was a wild as a wild boar,bo for short. That's what he said anyway.
Mean as a boar hog, so they called him "Bo". I've heard stories striaght from Bo's mouth of him beating up kids and stealing from them, and that only scratches the surface. Cam's cheating and computer saga was Bo on a good day.
My point is simply this. At some point a boy becomes a man. Lets hope Cam has reached that point and all indications are that he has.
I only saw Bo hit one kid,one day during Athletics,Bo slapped Jimmy Bunn,left a big hand print on Jimmy's face. Jimmy desperately needed slapping and I had often thought of doing it myself.
But he was not a mean predatory kid,we had plenty of those but I never saw Bo in that role. Bo and I were both favorites of a kind teacher named Mary Anchors,if Bo had been a mean jerk,I would have known.
Mrs. Anchors spoke highly of Bo. Never tried to make him out a saint, but she loved Bo like a son. I went to HS with her sons.
They are paid represent a student to a college to secure a scholarship. If you want to pretend thats not an agent, go ahead. I'd still like to know what they are doing for 5 star athletes who already have a scholarship offer. What did they do for Dyer and Frazier that wasn't already offered?
Ok. I say again. Student Athletes or prospective student athletes are ineligible if they are represented by an agent, and agent has a definition. NCAA Bylaw 12.3
Originally Posted by Kodiakisland
As to why Cam left Florida. Who knows the real reason. It certainly had nothing to do with Tebow staying one more year. Stolen lap tops, stolen papers, who knows. Maybe something thats yet to come to light.
I like how you admit to not knowing, but then claim to know why it wasn't.
Originally Posted by Kodiakisland
Don't worry though, I'm sure the FBI and the NCAA will let us know if this was all made up or not.
I'm not worried. Are you worried why Mallet left Mich., or who bought him back to Ark? You probably should be, I've heard some nasty rumors, which must be true. You're blind if you don't see it.
I'm not worried. Are you worried why Mallet left Mich., or who bought him back to Ark? You probably should be, I've heard some nasty rumors, which must be true. You're blind if you don't see it.
Nice try, but Mallett is the last player I worry about needing money to come back to Arkansas. That boy had to be made by his daddy to go to Michigan the first time around.
Bo and Cam get mentioned in the same breath a lot these days.
Does anyone know how Vincent Jackson got the name "Bo"?
I believe everyone can agree that Bo is as good as they get......now.
Cam Newton might be a great football player but he's no Bo Jackson. Don't forget Bo was a multi sport player in college.
I saw him hit the longest homerun ball ever hit in Alex Box stadium at LSU (and LSU has had some long ball hitters in their day) out the stadium and across 1/2 of Nicholson Drive into an oncomming car.
"The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity."
Mallett never wanted to go to Michigan in the first place. His daddy just couldn't/wouldn't let him play for Houston Nutt. And that, is from the horse's mouth truth. Once, Nutt was gone from Arkansas, it was just a matter of time. Although, Mallett loved Lloyd Carr and his firing made it a much easier decision for Mallett.
I'm not worried. Are you worried why Mallet left Mich., or who bought him back to Ark? You probably should be, I've heard some nasty rumors, which must be true. You're blind if you don't see it.
Nice try, but Mallett is the last player I worry about needing money to come back to Arkansas. That boy had to be made by his daddy to go to Michigan the first time around.
I'm not worried. Are you worried why Mallet left Mich., or who bought him back to Ark? You probably should be, I've heard some nasty rumors, which must be true. You're blind if you don't see it.
Nice try, but Mallett is the last player I worry about needing money to come back to Arkansas. That boy had to be made by his daddy to go to Michigan the first time around.
I'm not worried. Are you worried why Mallet left Mich., or who bought him back to Ark? You probably should be, I've heard some nasty rumors, which must be true. You're blind if you don't see it.
Nice try, but Mallett is the last player I worry about needing money to come back to Arkansas. That boy had to be made by his daddy to go to Michigan the first time around.
I tell you what. Repeat your rumor about Ryan Mallett right here. I'll get Jim Mallett on the phone and ask him to look at it. If it is objectionable, it will be pretty easy to find you in order to get you served.
Take your blinders off. Nutt woulnd't pay Mallet's asking price. Mallet was also caught in a gay love triangle and Rich Rod was about to kick him off the team anyway. It's been covered up pretty good, but I KNOW it to be fact.
I tell you what. Repeat your rumor about Ryan Mallett right here. I'll get Jim Mallett on the phone and ask him to look at it. If it is objectionable, it will be pretty easy to find you in order to get you served.
Take your blinders off. Nutt woulnd't pay Mallet's asking price. Mallet was also caught in a gay love triangle and Rich Rod was about to kick him off the team anyway. It's been covered up pretty good, but I KNOW it to be fact.
Hmmm, that's what I thought.
Auburn is going down and you know it. Mr. Rogers had his lawyer present with him when he gave the interview. He wasn't lying.
I tell you what. Repeat your rumor about Ryan Mallett right here. I'll get Jim Mallett on the phone and ask him to look at it. If it is objectionable, it will be pretty easy to find you in order to get you served.
Wow! Testy about facts and rumors huh?
.280Rem,
There weren't any facts or "rumors" in what you were blathering about Mallett - just stupid stuff you were making up to try to deflect attention from the problem(s) with Cam Newton's recruitment. I haven't read the whole thread and have no idea if the Newtons are guilty of any NCAA rules violations, but regardless, you had no reason to go "full retard" like you did.
Auburn is going down and you know it. Mr. Rogers had his lawyer present with him when he gave the interview. He wasn't lying.
Was he lying when he denied it all last week?
Well, he is speaking to the FBI about it on Tuesday. I'm guessing since he has a lawyer now, he'll know the ramifications of lying to them about anything. So, I would expect his story to them to be consistent with the one he just went on the radio and said publicy to millions of people while under the advisement of counsel.
I've seen the interview...he also says he was never involved with Auburn. So which part of this interview is fact, and which is a lie?
If you're lucky, Auburn didn't pay Cam's daddy any money. Of course, that would be pretty hard to understand as that Cam Newton said publicly in an interview a few weeks ago that he would rather have gone to MSU but that his daddy MADE him go to Auburn.
But, whatever. His story is enough to get Cam declared ineligible this year. Auburn will spend the next three years having their butts examined with microscope by the NCAA and maybe the FBI. That's good enough for me.
Auburn is going down and you know it. Mr. Rogers had his lawyer present with him when he gave the interview. He wasn't lying.
Was he lying when he denied it all last week?
Well, he is speaking to the FBI about it on Tuesday. I'm guessing since he has a lawyer now, he'll know the ramifications of lying to them about anything. So, I would expect his story to them to be consistent with the one he just went on the radio and said publicy to millions of people while under the advisement of counsel.
Which means he had no contact with Auburn, and the only thing that can be proved is whether he had phone contact with the parties he claims to have called "on behalf of" the Newtons.
I've seen the interview...he also says he was never involved with Auburn. So which part of this interview is fact, and which is a lie?
If you're lucky, Auburn didn't pay Cam's daddy any money. Of course, that would be pretty hard to understand as that Cam Newton said publicly in an interview a few weeks ago that he would rather have gone to MSU but that his daddy MADE him go to Auburn.
But, whatever. His story is enough to get Cam declared ineligible this year. Auburn will spend the next three years having their butts examined with microscope by the NCAA and maybe the FBI. That's good enough for me.
I've seen the interview...he also says he was never involved with Auburn. So which part of this interview is fact, and which is a lie?
If you're lucky, Auburn didn't pay Cam's daddy any money. Of course, that would be pretty hard to understand as that Cam Newton said publicly in an interview a few weeks ago that he would rather have gone to MSU but that his daddy MADE him go to Auburn.
But, whatever. His story is enough to get Cam declared ineligible this year. Auburn will spend the next three years having their butts examined with microscope by the NCAA and maybe the FBI. That's good enough for me.
When is Cam going to be declared ineligible?
Soon. Soliciting extra benefits is a violation of NCAA rules.
The NCAA does. Now, of course, they don't suspend a player. Only the university does that, but they may declare a player ineligible. Ethical institutions often will suspend players once allegations like these arise so that an investigation may be performed while the NCAA collects information to rule on eligibility. However, Auburn is not an ethical institution and it appears that they will force the NCAA's hand on this matter.
The NCAA does. Now, of course, they don't suspend a player. Only the university does that, but they may declare a player ineligible. Ethical institutions often will suspend players once allegations like these arise so that an investigation may be performed while the NCAA collects information to rule on eligibility. However, Auburn is not an ethical institution and it appears that they will force the NCAA's hand on this matter.
LOL. That 65-43 beat-down hurt didn't it? Ark won't be going to Atlanta, no matter how hard you wish for it.
The NCAA does. Now, of course, they don't suspend a player. Only the university does that, but they may declare a player ineligible. Ethical institutions often will suspend players once allegations like these arise so that an investigation may be performed while the NCAA collects information to rule on eligibility. However, Auburn is not an ethical institution and it appears that they will force the NCAA's hand on this matter.
LOL. That 65-43 beat-down hurt didn't it? Ark won't be going to Atlanta, no matter how hard you wish for it.
What? Hell, if we had known the rules you were going to play by on player eligibility, we would have had McFadden, Felix Jones, and Peyton Hillis playing and we would have beaten you by 40.
Hey doesn't Auburn have some kind of record on most undefeated seasons ever without a national championship? It sure looks like you y'all are going to keep that streak alive.
The NCAA does. Now, of course, they don't suspend a player. Only the university does that, but they may declare a player ineligible. Ethical institutions often will suspend players once allegations like these arise so that an investigation may be performed while the NCAA collects information to rule on eligibility. However, Auburn is not an ethical institution and it appears that they will force the NCAA's hand on this matter.
Cossatot,
Now you're going off the deep end. Auburn has everything to lose and nothing to gain by holding Newton out of competition at this point. If he ends up being ineligible, they aren't going to lose anything by playing him at this point, this far into the season. If he isn't found to be ineligible, they would be stupid to hold him out of competition considering they wouldn't win either of their remaining regular season games without him. If the Auburn athletic director even suggested they not play Newton at this point, the AD should be fired.
The NCAA does. Now, of course, they don't suspend a player. Only the university does that, but they may declare a player ineligible. Ethical institutions often will suspend players once allegations like these arise so that an investigation may be performed while the NCAA collects information to rule on eligibility. However, Auburn is not an ethical institution and it appears that they will force the NCAA's hand on this matter.
Cossatot,
Now you're going off the deep end. Auburn has everything to lose and nothing to gain by holding Newton out of competition at this point. If he ends up being ineligible, they haven't lost anything by playing him at this point, this far into the season. If he isn't found to be ineligible, they would be stupid to hold him out of competition considering they wouldn't win either of their remaining regular season games without him. If the Auburn athletic director even suggested they not play Newton at this point, the AD should be fired.
Actually, they have a lot to lose. It just depends on how froggy they are feeling. If they don't suspend him, and go to the SEC game, the BCS championship game, and heaven forbid win it, and THEN the NCAA rules that not only was he ineligible but that they knew it AND they paid for him, then they are going to get HAMMERED by the NCAA. Maybe, even SMU style hammered. Probably not SMU style, but much worse than anyone since SMU has been hammered.
That is the fire they are playing with on this deal.
If they're guilty, they're guilty, and if they're not, they're not. The NCAA isn't going to give anybody the death penalty if SoCal didn't get it, and the NCAA isn't going to care if Auburn goes on with their charade even if they are guilty - the penalties would be the same as long as people employed by the university have plausible deniability. If Auburn employees DON'T have plausible deniability, then they are going to get fired.
Auburn doesn't buy themselves anything but a lawsuit from Cam Newton if they hold him out of games without solid proof that he's ineligible.
If they're guilty, they're guilty, and if they're not, they're not. The NCAA isn't going to give anybody the death penalty if SoCal didn't get it, and the NCAA isn't going to care if Auburn goes on with their charade even if they are guilty - the penalties would be the same as long as people employed by the university have plausible deniability. If Auburn employees DON'T have plausible deniability, then they are going to get fired.
Auburn doesn't buy themselves anything but a lawsuit from Cam Newton if they hold him out of games without solid proof that he's ineligible.
Schools hold kids out of games all the time for less than this. Need I remind you of Jesse Pate and Sunday Adebayo?
And yeah, the NCAA DOES absolutely consider the attitude of the school when if factors in whether to throw down the big bitch "Lack of Institutional Control".
If they're guilty, they're guilty, and if they're not, they're not. The NCAA isn't going to give anybody the death penalty if SoCal didn't get it, and the NCAA isn't going to care if Auburn goes on with their charade even if they are guilty - the penalties would be the same as long as people employed by the university have plausible deniability. If Auburn employees DON'T have plausible deniability, then they are going to get fired.
Auburn doesn't buy themselves anything but a lawsuit from Cam Newton if they hold him out of games without solid proof that he's ineligible.
Gotta find a money trail to Auburn. Not found yet.
Gotta prove that Cecil was shopping Cam, AND that Cam knew about it for him to be declared ineligible.
If declared ineligible, Auburn loses the season anyway...if Auburn paid, they lose a lot more.
At this point, nothing to lose by playing him.
You heard it from me, here: IF AUBURN KNEW ABOUT THIS HAVING BEEN REPORTED TO THE SEC FROM MSU, AND PAID FOR CAM KNOWING THAT THE SEC AND NCAA WERE ALREADY LOOKING AT CAM, CAM'S DADDY, AND MSU, AUBURN DESERVES THE DEATH PENALTY FOR BEING MONUMENTALLY STUPID.
If they're guilty, they're guilty, and if they're not, they're not. The NCAA isn't going to give anybody the death penalty if SoCal didn't get it, and the NCAA isn't going to care if Auburn goes on with their charade even if they are guilty - the penalties would be the same as long as people employed by the university have plausible deniability. If Auburn employees DON'T have plausible deniability, then they are going to get fired.
Auburn doesn't buy themselves anything but a lawsuit from Cam Newton if they hold him out of games without solid proof that he's ineligible.
Schools hold kids out of games all the time for less than this. Need I remind you of Jesse Pate and Sunday Adebayo?
And yeah, the NCAA DOES absolutely consider the attitude of the school when if factors in whether to throw down the big bitch "Lack of Institutional Control".
Aren't you an attorney? Don't you help clients with assessing their risks of various courses of action? In situations like the Jesse Pate and Sunday Adebayo situation, the school figures they have more to lose by continuing to let the players play because they might have some success without the players. Auburn would almost assuredly lose their remaining games without Cam Newton, and if he is declared ineligible at some point in the future, they will have to basically forfeit the season anyway by this point - what's the difference in being 0-12 without him playing vs. 0-12 with him playing. As long as Auburn University employees have plausible deniability, they have no downside to continuing to let him play.
If Auburn employees don't have plausible deniability, they are already in deep enough trouble that playing him a couple more games isn't going to matter because the university can say the employees hid the truth from the administration for the employees' self-serving reasons until the NCAA or FBI brought the facts to the attention of the university administration.
Gotta prove that Cecil was shopping Cam, AND that Cam knew about it for him to be declared ineligible.
Assuming Rogers repeats what he said today to the FBI on Tuesday, that part is taken care of as that today on the radio, he said Cam was in the room when Cecil was asking for the money from the two MSU coaches. And assuming that the two MSU coaches corroborate that story...well, you're a prosecutor. You know that men have been sent to death row with less evidence than that.
So, that pretty much takes care of the soliciting part and Cam's knowledge of said soliciting. Auburn is now on fair notice that Cam could be ineligible.
If they're guilty, they're guilty, and if they're not, they're not. The NCAA isn't going to give anybody the death penalty if SoCal didn't get it, and the NCAA isn't going to care if Auburn goes on with their charade even if they are guilty - the penalties would be the same as long as people employed by the university have plausible deniability. If Auburn employees DON'T have plausible deniability, then they are going to get fired.
Auburn doesn't buy themselves anything but a lawsuit from Cam Newton if they hold him out of games without solid proof that he's ineligible.
Schools hold kids out of games all the time for less than this. Need I remind you of Jesse Pate and Sunday Adebayo?
And yeah, the NCAA DOES absolutely consider the attitude of the school when if factors in whether to throw down the big bitch "Lack of Institutional Control".
Aren't you an attorney? Don't you help clients with assessing their risks of various courses of action? In situations like the Jesse Pate and Sunday Adebayo situation, the school figures they have more to lose by continuing to let the players play because they might have some success without the players. Auburn would almost assuredly lose their remaining games without Cam Newton, and if he is declared ineligible at some point in the future, they will have to basically forfeit the season anyway by this point - what's the difference in being 0-12 without him playing vs. 0-12 with him playing. As long as Auburn University employees have plausible deniability, they have no downside to continuing to let him play.
If Auburn employees don't have plausible deniability, they are already in deep enough trouble that playing him a couple more games isn't going to matter because the university can say the employees hid the truth from the administration for the employees' self-serving reasons until the NCAA or FBI brought the facts to the attention of the university administration.
Just trust me on this as an attorney. A repentent attitude and the appearance of wanting to do the right thing will ALWAYS help someone on sentencing.
And remember, it doesn't have to be Auburn employees. Auburn can get fricked by boosters as well. So, by continuing to play him now, they are pretty much ruling out any possibility of saying, "We didn't know, but once we did, we did the right thing." +
Gotta prove that Cecil was shopping Cam, AND that Cam knew about it for him to be declared ineligible.
Assuming Rogers repeats what he said today to the FBI on Tuesday, that part is taken care of as that today on the radio, he said Cam was in the room when Cecil was asking for the money from the two MSU coaches. And assuming that the two MSU coaches corroborate that story...well, you're a prosecutor. You know that men have been sent to death row with less evidence than that.
So, that pretty much takes care of the soliciting part and Cam's knowledge of said soliciting. Auburn is now on fair notice that Cam could be ineligible.
A known liar changes his story...to match a story reported yesterday claiming 2 "recruiters" said Cam's daddy asked for money, and Cam acknowledged it in another phone conversation, which were reported to be taped, and now there are reports from the SEC that they know of no such tapes. Meaning that MSU may have some problems IF they exist at all.
Right now, I'm still in investigator mode...lots of "he said" stuff....still no smoking gun. And no, Rogers "correcting his lie" isn't a smoking gun. Not good, but not a smoking gun.
2 separate issues here. Is Cam eligible or not based on the MSU allegations? Did Auburn pay? Both completely separate. It will suck if Auburn vacates the wins due to something they had no control or knowledge of.
I already stated my feelings on if they paid and got caught.
I cannot believe that in this day and age of news and rumors spreading literally at the speed of light over the Internet that anybody would be stupid enough to ask for money for his son's college football decision with his son, two college coaches, and a go-between in the room. Perhaps corruption is more brazen in college sports than I expect, but holding such a meeting is a recipe for disaster. If I was sitting on a jury, I would have a hard time buying the picture that you said Rogers painted.
I cannot believe that in this day and age of news and rumors spreading literally at the speed of light over the Internet that anybody would be stupid enough to ask for money for his son's college football decision with his son, two college coaches, and a go-between in the room. Perhaps corruption is more brazen in college sports than I expect, but holding such a meeting is a recipe for disaster. If I was sitting on a jury, I would have a hard time buying the picture that you said Rogers painted.
I cannot believe that in this day and age of news and rumors spreading literally at the speed of light over the Internet that anybody would be stupid enough to ask for money for his son's college football decision with his son, two college coaches, and a go-between in the room. Perhaps corruption is more brazen in college sports than I expect, but holding such a meeting is a recipe for disaster. If I was sitting on a jury, I would have a hard time buying the picture that you said Rogers painted.
Dude, you don't understand people like Cecil Newton. And really, what is going to happen to Cam? Nothing. He'll be in the NFL next year making millions and Auburn will be stuck picking up the pieces. In the end, Cecil Newton didn't care that much if it got out. He just wanted his money because by the time it all got out, Cam would be long gone. It backfired a little, but they almost made it and certainly Cam will be a millioniare next year anyway.
If they're guilty, they're guilty, and if they're not, they're not. The NCAA isn't going to give anybody the death penalty if SoCal didn't get it, and the NCAA isn't going to care if Auburn goes on with their charade even if they are guilty - the penalties would be the same as long as people employed by the university have plausible deniability. If Auburn employees DON'T have plausible deniability, then they are going to get fired.
Auburn doesn't buy themselves anything but a lawsuit from Cam Newton if they hold him out of games without solid proof that he's ineligible.
Schools hold kids out of games all the time for less than this. Need I remind you of Jesse Pate and Sunday Adebayo?
And yeah, the NCAA DOES absolutely consider the attitude of the school when if factors in whether to throw down the big bitch "Lack of Institutional Control".
Aren't you an attorney? Don't you help clients with assessing their risks of various courses of action? In situations like the Jesse Pate and Sunday Adebayo situation, the school figures they have more to lose by continuing to let the players play because they might have some success without the players. Auburn would almost assuredly lose their remaining games without Cam Newton, and if he is declared ineligible at some point in the future, they will have to basically forfeit the season anyway by this point - what's the difference in being 0-12 without him playing vs. 0-12 with him playing. As long as Auburn University employees have plausible deniability, they have no downside to continuing to let him play.
If Auburn employees don't have plausible deniability, they are already in deep enough trouble that playing him a couple more games isn't going to matter because the university can say the employees hid the truth from the administration for the employees' self-serving reasons until the NCAA or FBI brought the facts to the attention of the university administration.
Just trust me on this as an attorney. A repentent attitude and the appearance of wanting to do the right thing will ALWAYS help someone on sentencing.
And remember, it doesn't have to be Auburn employees. Auburn can get fricked by boosters as well. So, by continuing to play him now, they are pretty much ruling out any possibility of saying, "We didn't know, but once we did, we did the right thing." +
If at this point in time Auburn University knows for a fact that Cam Newton is ineligible, they are already toast because the only things that are public knowledge at this point are some seemingly unreliable people making allegations that don't seem to be quite completely matching up. What would be the difference in penalties - losing 25 vs. 30 scholarships over three years? I kinda doubt an Auburn booster is going to come forward and say that he paid the Newtons; thus, all there is at this point for Auburn to assess is hearsay, and they would be stupid to hold Cam Newton out of games due to unproven hearsay. If NCAA investigators tell Auburn they are 99% sure that Newton is ineligible that is one thing, but making decisions based on rumors is not wise for Auburn at this point.
I kinda doubt an Auburn booster is going to come forward and say that he paid the Newtons; thus, all there is at this point for Auburn to assess is hearsay, and they would be stupid to hold Cam Newton out of games due to unproven hearsay.
When a guy says, "I was there and such and such happened", that isn't hearsay, that is eyewitness testimony.
I kinda doubt an Auburn booster is going to come forward and say that he paid the Newtons; thus, all there is at this point for Auburn to assess is hearsay, and they would be stupid to hold Cam Newton out of games due to unproven hearsay.
When a guy says, "I was there and such and such happened", that isn't hearsay, that is eyewitness testimony.
It's hearsay if there isn't an opportunity to cross examine, isn't it?
I cannot believe that in this day and age of news and rumors spreading literally at the speed of light over the Internet that anybody would be stupid enough to ask for money for his son's college football decision with his son, two college coaches, and a go-between in the room. Perhaps corruption is more brazen in college sports than I expect, but holding such a meeting is a recipe for disaster. If I was sitting on a jury, I would have a hard time buying the picture that you said Rogers painted.
Dude, you don't understand people like Cecil Newton. And really, what is going to happen to Cam? Nothing. He'll be in the NFL next year making millions and Auburn will be stuck picking up the pieces. In the end, Cecil Newton didn't care that much if it got out. He just wanted his money because by the time it all got out, Cam would be long gone. It backfired a little, but they almost made it and certainly Cam will be a millioniare next year anyway.
Mallet is gone too..leaving in his wake a stellar middle of the pack SECW finish! Probably one of the better seasons to be had under Petrino when it's all said and done.
I kinda doubt an Auburn booster is going to come forward and say that he paid the Newtons; thus, all there is at this point for Auburn to assess is hearsay, and they would be stupid to hold Cam Newton out of games due to unproven hearsay.
When a guy says, "I was there and such and such happened", that isn't hearsay, that is eyewitness testimony.
It's hearsay if there isn't an opportunity to cross examine, isn't it?
I kinda doubt an Auburn booster is going to come forward and say that he paid the Newtons; thus, all there is at this point for Auburn to assess is hearsay, and they would be stupid to hold Cam Newton out of games due to unproven hearsay.
When a guy says, "I was there and such and such happened", that isn't hearsay, that is eyewitness testimony.
What it is, is a known liar, and someone under investigation for fraud with the NFLPA saying he heard someone (Cecil Newton) ask for money, after going on record saying he knew nothing about any of it.
I kinda doubt an Auburn booster is going to come forward and say that he paid the Newtons; thus, all there is at this point for Auburn to assess is hearsay, and they would be stupid to hold Cam Newton out of games due to unproven hearsay.
When a guy says, "I was there and such and such happened", that isn't hearsay, that is eyewitness testimony.
It's hearsay if there isn't an opportunity to cross examine, isn't it?
no
So you're telling me that in the State of Alabama someone can videotape an allegation and then commit suicide, and the videotaped allegation can still be played at a trial as eyewitness testimony?
So you're telling me that in the State of Alabama someone can videotape an allegation and then commit suicide, and the videotaped allegation can still be played at a trial as eyewitness testimony?
You're asking a different rules of evidence question now.
Just forget hearsay...this, for now, is an NCAA investigation. They can consider anything, and any words they want to.
You cannot win this one. AR fans are NEVER wrong. They know everything and you only think you might know something and at the end of the day it's all Houston Nutt's fault anyway. THE END.
You cannot win this one. AR fans are NEVER wrong. They know everything and you only think you might know something and at the end of the day it's all Houston Nutt's fault anyway. THE END.
You cannot win this one. AR fans are NEVER wrong. They know everything and you only think you might know something and at the end of the day it's all Houston Nutt's fault anyway. THE END.
Nail
Only some Arkansas fans are never wrong - those still obsessed with Houston Nutt are kinda like the freshman girl who got dumped by the star quarterback after he got what he wanted from her.
280 You're truly a tool, and over a game of football no less. You just make stuff up and make yourself look about 12 years old. We've only talked about what is on every sports reporting network. You're now on ignore because if you're this way over football, I don't want to read what you think about something that really matters.
"The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity."
There are those of us who come from a time and place where integrity and character were expected. Old fools that we are, we still believe that to be a good thing.
"The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity."
There are those of us who come from a time and place where integrity and character were expected. Old fools that we are, we still believe that to be a good thing.
That's kind of the question that I have been asking myself. Have things changed that much or do we just have more access to info? Probably some of both.
"The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity."
There are those of us who come from a time and place where integrity and character were expected. Old fools that we are, we still believe that to be a good thing.
That's kind of the question that I have been asking myself. Have things changed that much or do we just have more access to info?Probably some of both.
Agreed, but with much more emphasis on the "changed" portion.
280 You're truly a tool, and over a game of football no less. You just make stuff up and make yourself look about 12 years old. We've only talked about what is on every sports reporting network. You're now on ignore because if you're this way over football, I don't want to read what you think about something that really matters.
You seem to be taking this all too personally ... even before things got skippy between individuals, you have seemed to take offense to people having an opinion that Newton is guilty. Really, you need to relax a bit ...
It's like I said earlier ... OJ Simpson was found not guilty in the court of law, but we all pretty much know that just because it was not able to be proven, that it's about a 99.9% chance that he did it. Now, just extrapolate a bit to the Cam Newton situation and I think you'll understand some people's positions a little better.
I'll admit that there's no 'evidence' yet that can be used to prove that Newton should be deemed ineligible, and that it's all just a bunch of "he said, he said" at this point in time. But the other side of this is that there isn't just a single incident of "bad behavior" from Newton. It appears to be a more chronic problem with his decision making and sense of entitlement.
Do you really think that it's all just a bunch of coincidence that he ended up with a stolen laptop, is being accused of having three separate cheating instances at UF, and that he's now got people saying that he had an 'agent' saying that he had to be paid to commit to a school, and that he may have had a phone conversation saying that he went to AU because "the money was just too much"?
Again ... one single thing and I'd be inclined to believe someone is trying to screw him ... but look at the 'body of work' being laid out right now and you'd be blind not to see how people would not want to give the kid the benefit of the doubt.
Like I told you in my PM with you earlier ... if I had to bet my life on it, I'd wager that what's being said about this "pay to play" situation is true ... but whether or not it can be proven is another issue ... but I'm not basing my opinion on whether or not they can trace the money that I think had to have changed hands.
I also know (like I said to you in the PM) that this happens at all major universities with just about all the big star players ... it's just a matter of if/when they do get caught.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason(s) - sour grapes, etc. - Cam's situation is being exposed ... and it will cause issues for him. Will those issues include him being declared ineligible? Will he end up losing the Heisman vote? Who knows ... but hopefully the investigation will be speedy, and he'll either be cleared quickly, or he'll be 'caught' ... but either way, it will be over ...
You seem to be taking this all too personally ... even before things got skippy between individuals, you have seemed to take offense to people having an opinion that Newton is guilty. Really, you need to relax a bit ...
It's like I said earlier ... OJ Simpson was found not guilty in the court of law, but we all pretty much know that just because it was not able to be proven, that it's about a 99.9% chance that he did it. Now, just extrapolate a bit to the Cam Newton situation and I think you'll understand some people's positions a little better.
I'll admit that there's no 'evidence' yet that can be used to prove that Newton should be deemed ineligible, and that it's all just a bunch of "he said, he said" at this point in time. But the other side of this is that there isn't just a single incident of "bad behavior" from Newton. It appears to be a more chronic problem with his decision making and sense of entitlement.
Do you really think that it's all just a bunch of coincidence that he ended up with a stolen laptop, is being accused of having three separate cheating instances at UF, and that he's now got people saying that he had an 'agent' saying that he had to be paid to commit to a school, and that he may have had a phone conversation saying that he went to AU because "the money was just too much"?
Again ... one single thing and I'd be inclined to believe someone is trying to screw him ... but look at the 'body of work' being laid out right now and you'd be blind not to see how people would not want to give the kid the benefit of the doubt.
Like I told you in my PM with you earlier ... if I had to bet my life on it, I'd wager that what's being said about this "pay to play" situation is true ... but whether or not it can be proven is another issue ... but I'm not basing my opinion on whether or not they can trace the money that I think had to have changed hands.
I also know (like I said to you in the PM) that this happens at all major universities with just about all the big star players ... it's just a matter of if/when they do get caught.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason(s) - sour grapes, etc. - Cam's situation is being exposed ... and it will cause issues for him. Will those issues include him being declared ineligible? Will he end up losing the Heisman vote? Who knows ... but hopefully the investigation will be speedy, and he'll either be cleared quickly, or he'll be 'caught' ... but either way, it will be over ...
Trey,
I don't take it personally. I know it's easier for some to think that. I do find it amazing that some need only read an allegation to find one guilty though. That amazes me.
BTW, the Marcus Dupree thing is on on ESPN2 right now.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason(s) - sour grapes, etc. - Cam's situation is being exposed ... and it will cause issues for him. Will those issues include him being declared ineligible? Will he end up losing the Heisman vote? Who knows ... but hopefully the investigation will be speedy, and he'll either be cleared quickly, or he'll be 'caught' ... but either way, it will be over ...
The pay to play scheme was reported almost a year ago to the SEC, before Cam ever signed with Auburn. The NCAA investigation started before the season started, before anyone knew how well Auburn would be this year. This has been about Cam and not Auburn, although Auburn may have a problem if they paid him or knew he was soliciting money to play and had an obligation to report.
The academic info probably was leaked by someone tired of hearing how great he is. Funny that would be Florida, as I think everyone was tired of hearing about Tebow. Difference was there was never any dirt to tell on Tebow. Does the academic problem have any bearing on the pay to play? No. But it does go toward credibility. Who leaked the info? Maybe the student who had his paper stolen or someone in the class that knew about it or someone close to Cam while at Florida who knew about it. I really doubt Meyer, or any head coach in the SEC, would stoop to that level.
You can be sure that the Auburn officials already knew of any academic problem at Florida. Instead of any denial, there has been outrage that this info was supposed to be protected by law and not made public.
I wonder how often the FBI gets involved with NCAA investigations. I wouldn't think they would if there wasn't something here.
Whatever happens, it is a sad state of affairs that we care more about winning games than any thing else. I'm sure most of those defending him would hate to see him as their future son in law, unless his future earnings outways his negatives.
I agree with most of what you said ... and find the FBI thing interesting as well.
it appears that "new" information is coming out now, even if it is currently just people talking to the media that didn't do so before. I have to think that if the FBI is getting involved now, they are doing it because they think there is definitely something to the allegations.
Not saying the FBI never wastes time or resources ... but it does seem curious that they are now getting involved.
Again, I am very interested to see how this all turns out. I don't really care what the result is, but the entire situation is very interesting to me a an SEC and CFB fan ...
I wonder what this must be doing to Newton's ability to concentrate on winning football games. The whole "scandal" has a sour grapes/vendetta smell about it, but who knows.
But if the kid screws the pooch in the SEC title game and Oregon loses, and LSU wins out.....the BCS will put the Mad Hatter in the NC game, cementing his reputation as the luckiest human on the planet.
Oregon will drop at least one...
And, I think the Iron Bowl will be rather interesting (putting it mildly) this year.
Miles may get a shot, again.
You boy's are forgetting about LSU @ ARK...their defense may be good...but they haven't seen an offense yet.
Take your blinders off. Nutt woulnd't pay Mallet's asking price. Mallet was also caught in a gay love triangle and Rich Rod was about to kick him off the team anyway. It's been covered up pretty good, but I KNOW it to be fact.
You just ranked yourself up there with the biggest idiots on this board...you and TRH sleep well together tonight...
I wonder what this must be doing to Newton's ability to concentrate on winning football games. The whole "scandal" has a sour grapes/vendetta smell about it, but who knows.
But if the kid screws the pooch in the SEC title game and Oregon loses, and LSU wins out.....the BCS will put the Mad Hatter in the NC game, cementing his reputation as the luckiest human on the planet.
Oregon will drop at least one...
And, I think the Iron Bowl will be rather interesting (putting it mildly) this year.
Miles may get a shot, again.
You boy's are forgetting about LSU @ ARK...their defense may be good...but they haven't seen an offense yet.
We'll see. I believe that Oklahoma put up about 50 points a game in 08 until they played Florida In the BCSCG. That game didn't go to well for them, now did it?
Here is the deal, Auburn better be one hundred percent sure that NONE of its boosters gave Cecil Newton money. And yes, if they continue to play the guy after all this has come out it will go much harder on them if it is found that someone gave Cam money.
Here is what they are betting the next decade of their program on:
1) A student athlete who very likely cheated at one university;
2) A student athlete stole a laptap at another university; and
3) A student athlete and his father who according to four witnesses right now, asked for nearly $200K to secure his signature.
With the FBI involved, if any Auburn booster paid any money, it will unravel soon enough. Boosters and the Newtons are prepared to lie to the NCAA all day, they will not be so eager to lie to the FBI.
You boy's are forgetting about LSU @ ARK...their defense may be good...but they haven't seen an offense yet.
That's why I said if LSU wins out, not when they win out.
And one could also say that Arkansas hasn't seen a defense yet, at least not one like they're going to see from LSU.
You know, the penalty for infractions like this discovered and ruled upon during the season is to forfeit games. If that were to happen, then assuming Arkansas beats MSU (I know a big assumption), then the game in Little Rock could be for the SEC West.
Probably a slim chances of anything happening in time to really make a difference, but it is a nice thought. Especially since but for Auburn playing an ineligible player, they would have beaten neither LSU nor Arkansas.
Here is the deal, Auburn better be one hundred percent sure that NONE of its boosters gave Cecil Newton money. And yes, if they continue to play the guy after all this has come out it will go much harder on them if it is found that someone gave Cam money.
If Cam is found to be ineligible, it will be that, and only that. Auburn will vacate the wins, and it ends there. Sad, but that's it. If it's discovered Auburn paid...I doubt it could get much worse.
Originally Posted by Cossatotjoe_redux
Here is what they are betting the next decade of their program on:
1) A student athlete who very likely cheated at one university;
2) A student athlete stole a laptap at another university; and
3) A student athlete and his father who according to four witnesses right now, asked for nearly $200K to secure his signature.
#2 First. A student who admits he purchased a laptop on the cheap, admits he used poor judgment and should have known it was stolen, and entered a pre-trial diversion, completed it and has no felony conviction on his record. Agree, that from now on, anything that ever comes up with him, he'll always be looked at more suspiciously than someone with a pristine record.
As to #1...as I said, he has a history, BUT, the reports from Gainsville on this are conflicting, and both stories cite sources within the Student Honor Court. One report said he had sources that he was facing charges from the student honor court...not just reported that he cheated...but that he was facing charges of cheating by the University. The second report denies that. You may still choose to believe he cheated.
As to #3...This allegation of shopping Cam or someone representing themselves as representing Cam asking for money has been out there since January, INCLUDING the alleged phone calls with the coaches. It was reported that there were tapes of these conversations...the SEC denies any knowledge of these tapes. As of now, you have Kenny Rogers (man who if you're going to veiw Cam suspiciously, you HAVE to view this sleazeball with the same jaundiced eye) now completely changing his story. This is only a new twist on old information that Cam's dad was shopping him. As stated, it was already known by the SEC and Auburn of the allegations by the coaches, and tapes have yet to be produced.
That said, if because of the laptop, you also choose to include in Cam's "body of work" all subsequent, unproven, and contradicted allegations against him, then you are free to do so. I don't consider anything but the stolen laptop, and the traffic tickets I know about, part of Cam's "body of work".
Originally Posted by Cossatotjoe_redux
With the FBI involved, if any Auburn booster paid any money, it will unravel soon enough. Boosters and the Newtons are prepared to lie to the NCAA all day, they will not be so eager to lie to the FBI.
Here's the thing. Auburn's compliance Dept. has a former NCAA guy as its Head of Compliance, a retired FBI on staff as an investigator, and a team of pretty damned good lawyers our of Birmingham with Lightfoot, Franklin, and White LLC.
I happen to KNOW that Auburn did more due diligence on Cam than simply trusting he'd turned things around after the dastardly laptop incident. I happen to KNOW that they were well aware of the swirling accusations of "pay for play" before he ever played a down for Auburn, knew about it since January, and had conferred with the SEC on it all. And I know that they went to great measures to make sure he was eligible to play in light of all the known information at the time, AND there's no new information. NONE. I've heard lawyers who specialize in NCAA work, who are NOT representing anybody in this matter claim that Auburn, with what is known now, has no problems, and that it's not even very likely that Cam's eligibility is in great danger simply on unfounded allegations of someone seeking money on his behalf.
Worst case...absolute worst case is Cam is declared ineligible down the road...well after this season. Auburn has no NCAA probs here. NONE...there's no allegations out there against Auburn in any way, shape, or form. Never has been. The only connection to Auburn is that Cam is playing for Auburn now. The supposition is that due to contradicted accounts through known liars and people who themselves admit that they were willing to participate in paying Cam to play for MSU, and for which there is no evidence other than the "good word" of these "upstanding folks. These upstanding and good folks also, by the way, say Auburn had nothing to do with anything at MSU and that Auburn was never mentioned in anything. Still, since Cam now plays for Auburn, Cam must have then received money to play for Auburn.
That's it, in not so tight a nutshell.
Auburn is not, and has not been implicated in paying anybody. Not one report of it. None, zero.
Believe what you want.
Coss...seems the shoe fits differently when someone is disparaging your team's star QB huh?
Auburn is not, and has not been implicated in paying anybody. Not one report of it. None, zero.
You know better than that. All it takes is one booster. And yes, the NCAA holds schools accountable for their boosters. And you KNOW the history of Auburn boosters.
Do you want to bet the next ten years of Auburn football that no Auburn booster paid Cam Newton anything?
Coss...seems the shoe fits differently when someone is disparaging your team's star QB huh?
I'm not disparaging him based on nothing. His daddy is the one who according to four witnesses, shopped him around. He is the one who stole a laptop (and I would refer you to the police report on the incident available on the Smoking Gun).
Kenny Rogers says Cam Newton's father asked Mississippi State for money; no mention of Auburn Published: Friday, November 12, 2010, 7:20 AM
By Charles Goldberg and Kevin Scarbinsky AUBURN -- As Auburn quarterback Cam Newton practiced Thursday with intentions to play Saturday against Georgia, sports agent Kenny Rogers claimed he witnessed Newton's father telling two Mississippi State football coaches that the school would have to pay to sign the player.
Rogers identified Mississippi State booster Bill Bell, a former teammate of Rogers', as someone who might pay.
Bell told ESPN.com Thursday night that Newton's father, Cecil Newton Sr., did ask for money in exchange for a signing. Bell said he spoke with an NCAA investigator earlier this week.
"That's all I want to say about it at this point," Bell said.
Rogers, the agent who found himself in the middle of a story last week that said he tried to solicit money from Mississippi State on behalf of the Newton family, said Thursday on ESPN Radio in Dallas that the person responsible for the demand was Newton's father.
John Bond, the person who originally went on record to say Newton was being offered to State for money and that Rogers will involved, told the Jackson Clarion-Ledger on Thursday that the story "has nothing to do with Auburn, absolutely nothing to do with Auburn." Bond said he will provide information to the FBI next Tuesday.
Rogers, like Bond, said he was not aware if anyone asked Auburn for money.
The interview with Rogers on Thursday included contradictions on his role in the matter. Rogers said he was not "involved in anything concerning that, period." But he later said he called Bell on Cecil Newton's behalf to see if Bell was willing to pay for the quarterback.
Rogers said in the radio interview that at a meeting he attended in November 2009 in Starkville, Cecil Newton didn't tell two Mississippi State coaches how much he wanted, but the implication was clear that he wanted to be paid.
"I can't really remember how Mr. Newton stated this, but however he said it, one of the coaches was like, 'No, no, I don't want to hear that. No, no, don't hear that' as if money was brought up or it was going to take money to get him. I can't really remember, so I'm not going to sit here and say I remember what was said."
Rogers later said Newton told him the amount was between $100,000 and $180,000.
The Birmingham News reported Wednesday that Auburn officials have been talking with the NCAA, including a meeting this week, and that nothing has changed the quarterback's status. Thursday's practice indicated Auburn expects its star to play as the Tigers try to win the SEC West against Georgia.
Auburn officials declined to comment Thursday.
NCAA spokeswoman Stacey Osburn said by email Thursday that "the solicitation of cash or benefits by a prospective student-athlete or another individual on his or her behalf is not allowed under NCAA rules."
Donald Jackson, an attorney in Montgomery who has faced off with the NCAA many times, said Thursday that the NCAA is apparently comfortable with Newton's eligibility.
"The NCAA never hesitates to strong-arm schools into taking athletes off the field if they have evidence of violations," Jackson said.
On the latest round of charges, Jackson said that in his opinion, "the statements from Kenny Rogers and John Bond don't add up to anything that would justify taking him off the field."
Jackson said, "a solicitation without the acceptance or provision of an extra benefit is not a violation. It may be circumstantial evidence that someone gave you something.''
Jackson said Auburn should "absolutely'' play Newton.
The involvement of Bell came to public light Thursday. Though Rogers said he did not ask for money, he said he called Bell to see if a deal was arranged for Cam Newton's services.
Rogers said Cecil Newton asked him as they were leaving Starkville following a football game, "'What are you thinking? What are you thinking is going to happen? Is it going to go through?' I said, well, I can't answer that, 'I'll just call Bill Bell.' So I called Bill, and Bill didn't answer, and I left Bill a message saying, 'I'm with Mr. Newton and he just wants to know if the deal is going to go through.'"
Ian Fitzsimmons, who conducted the radio interview, asked Rogers if the "deal" meant Mississippi State was going to pay for Newton.
"Yes," Rogers said.
Rogers said he didn't have "any knowledge" whether Mississippi State would pay for the quarterback.
"I was asked a question, and I passed it on. I have no knowledge on what they were going to do and what they weren't going to do," he said.
An ESPN.com story this week said Mississippi State told the SEC that two recruiters were told by Cecil Newton in phone conversations that he wanted money. In a written statement, Mississippi said it informed the SEC of concerns in January, then supplied more information to the SEC in July. But SEC associate commissioner Charles Bloom said Wednesday that Mississippi State did not report such phone conversations to the SEC in January or in July.
Mississippi State officials on Thursday declined comment on Bloom's statement.
The NCAA requires coaches and schools to report solicitations.
I wrote wrong in the above post. The SEC denies reports of the phone conversations at all, not just the tapes.
You boy's are forgetting about LSU @ ARK...their defense may be good...but they haven't seen an offense yet.
That's why I said if LSU wins out, not when they win out.
And one could also say that Arkansas hasn't seen a defense yet, at least not one like they're going to see from LSU.
But how are they jumping TCU and Boise without the benefit of the SECCG? That's the biggest obstacle for LSU getting in. When 2007 LSU and 2006 UF leapfrogged at the end of the season, it was because of the benefit of the SECCG.
LSU's schedule is pretty much a wash with Boise the rest of the way, and although better than TCU's schedule, TCU is two spots ahead in both human polls.
The version of that article I got on a BR TV station this website had a few more quotes in it. One of them was that Rogers said he never received money from any University. I guess I'm skeptical and the first thing It hought was - of course not. You got the cut on the back end from the athlete and the money most likely never originated from a University to begin with, but rather athletic backer programs/individuals.
Coss...seems the shoe fits differently when someone is disparaging your team's star QB huh?
I'm not disparaging him based on nothing. His daddy is the one who according to four witnesses, shopped him around. He is the one who stole a laptop (and I would refer you to the police report on the incident available on the Smoking Gun).
Ok, he took the laptop, now what? He's got a history without a conviction.
As to the current pay for play accusations...Two of the 4 are coaches that continued to recruit him, supposedly after is was known he was being shopped, and LOST out on him, and two of which are already on record in this situation as having outright lied as to material facts.
Auburn is not, and has not been implicated in paying anybody. Not one report of it. None, zero.
You know better than that. All it takes is one booster. And yes, the NCAA holds schools accountable for their boosters. And you KNOW the history of Auburn boosters.
Do you want to bet the next ten years of Auburn football that no Auburn booster paid Cam Newton anything?
The NCAA holds school accountable for their boosters. Ok. Again, Auburn has not in any way been implicated in any pay for play...no accusations at all. NONE. I don't have the power to bet the future of Auburn football on anything. Just me, but I'll wait on at least an accusation involving Auburn paying...I know that makes me a homer and all, call me silly. You KNOW Ark. bought and paid for Mallet. It happens all the time, most just don't get caught.
Auburn is not, and has not been implicated in paying anybody. Not one report of it. None, zero.
You know better than that. All it takes is one booster. And yes, the NCAA holds schools accountable for their boosters. And you KNOW the history of Auburn boosters.
Do you want to bet the next ten years of Auburn football that no Auburn booster paid Cam Newton anything?
The NCAA holds school accountable for their boosters. Ok. Again, Auburn has not in any way been implicated in any pay for play...no accusations at all. NONE. I don't have the power to bet the future of Auburn football on anything. Just me, but I'll wait on at least an accusation involving Auburn paying...I know that makes me a homer and all, call me silly. You KNOW Ark. bought and paid for Mallet. It happens all the time, most just don't get caught.
You boy's are forgetting about LSU @ ARK...their defense may be good...but they haven't seen an offense yet.
That's why I said if LSU wins out, not when they win out.
And one could also say that Arkansas hasn't seen a defense yet, at least not one like they're going to see from LSU.
But how are they jumping TCU and Boise without the benefit of the SECCG? That's the biggest obstacle for LSU getting in. When 2007 LSU and 2006 UF leapfrogged at the end of the season, it was because of the benefit of the SECCG.
LSU's schedule is pretty much a wash with Boise the rest of the way, and although better than TCU's schedule, TCU is two spots ahead in both human polls.
I guess because LSU's strength of schedule through last weekend was the 7th hardest in the country, while Boise State and TCU were No. 78 and 85. And its only loss was by a touchdown to No. 1.
Auburn is not, and has not been implicated in paying anybody. Not one report of it. None, zero.
You know better than that. All it takes is one booster. And yes, the NCAA holds schools accountable for their boosters. And you KNOW the history of Auburn boosters.
Do you want to bet the next ten years of Auburn football that no Auburn booster paid Cam Newton anything?
The NCAA holds school accountable for their boosters. Ok. Again, Auburn has not in any way been implicated in any pay for play...no accusations at all. NONE. I don't have the power to bet the future of Auburn football on anything. Just me, but I'll wait on at least an accusation involving Auburn paying...I know that makes me a homer and all, call me silly. You KNOW Ark. bought and paid for Mallet. It happens all the time, most just don't get caught.
You know better than that. All it takes is one booster. And yes, the NCAA holds schools accountable for their boosters. And you KNOW the history of Auburn boosters.
Do you want to bet the next ten years of Auburn football that no Auburn booster paid Cam Newton anything?
The NCAA holds school accountable for their boosters. Ok. Again, Auburn has not in any way been implicated in any pay for play...no accusations at all. NONE. I don't have the power to bet the future of Auburn football on anything. Just me, but I'll wait on at least an accusation involving Auburn paying...I know that makes me a homer and all, call me silly. You KNOW Ark. bought and paid for Mallet. It happens all the time, most just don't get caught.
Hmmm, hmmm. Auburn will be crying.
Crying or not, and Ark won't be in Atlanta. [/quote]
How do you figure Ark won't be in Atlanta? The way things are trending this week, if the Hogs win their games against MSU and LSU, the Hogs could be in Atlanta with Auburn sitting at home due to playing an ineligible player all season. Don't know if that will happen, but from the way things look right now, it is about as likely that Arkansas or LSU or Bama (depending on whether Auburn's forfeits would be immediate or after the season) will be in Atlanta as it is that Auburn will be.
No, but we'll be playing football next year with actual D I athletes instead of guys we had to pick up off the intramural fields like you will because the NCAA hammered your program so hard you can't field a team.
I guess because LSU's strength of schedule through last weekend was the 7th hardest in the country, while Boise State and TCU were No. 78 and 85. And its only loss was by a touchdown to No. 1.
That's all fine and good, but that SOS hasn't gotten them above TCU or Boise to date, because they started from behind. The Human polls don't care about what your SOS was 5 weeks ago, they care about from today forward.
It is always tough for a school to gain ground in the polls. The polls just won't drop you unless you lose, play someone you should have killed, poorly or if the advancing team (LSU) plays a CG that basically gives them an extra game and usually against a highly ranked opponent.
Let's look at LSU and Boise going forward...
LSU:
L. Monroe - Doormat non BCS 4-5 team.
Ol Miss - 4-5 team.
Arkansas - Solid 7-3 ranked #15
Boise:
Fresno - 6-2 WAC team. Human polls and all computers will view this as a better team than Ol Miss.
Nevada - 8-1 WAC team, ranked #21. Will be viewed just slightly below Arkansas by human polls, and above Arkansas in computer polls.
Utah St. Weak WAC team, will be viewed on par with Lo. Monroe.
There is simply no way LSU jumps Boise if both win out UNLESS Auburn loses to UGA AND Bama, then LSU goes to the SECCG and they control their destiny.
How do you figure Ark won't be in Atlanta? The way things are trending this week, if the Hogs win their games against MSU and LSU, the Hogs could be in Atlanta with Auburn sitting at home due to playing an ineligible player all season. Don't know if that will happen, but from the way things look right now, it is about as likely that Arkansas or LSU or Bama (depending on whether Auburn's forfeits would be immediate or after the season) will be in Atlanta as it is that Auburn will be.
ROFLMAO. It took them 5 years to conclude the Reggie Bush investigation, and they actually had a money trail there. This isn't anything but a bunch of conflicting he said/he said stories at this point. You're delusional if you think this will resolve in the next 3 weeks to the point that Ark could make it to Atlanta. Forget the fact that Ark has 2 losses just like Bammer, and bammer beat Ark.
No, but we'll be playing football next year with actual D I athletes instead of guys we had to pick up off the intramural fields like you will because the NCAA hammered your program so hard you can't field a team.
Hopes and dreams bud, hopes and dreams. I guess Auburn picking Arkansas best players up the last few years has you pizzed at Auburn that bad. And the beat down a few weeks back too.
Dang....you gents still at this,huh? Oregon is gonna win the entire thing so go easy on each other.
Does anyone remember that WVU/Pitt NC game crushing blow I took a few years back? This is kid's play in comparison. I almost cried that evening.....while you guys LYFAO! Football and chicks sure make for some serious assed testosterone infusions!
Cam will sign a 100 million dollar deal next year and that's where his real life is headed.
How do you figure Ark won't be in Atlanta? The way things are trending this week, if the Hogs win their games against MSU and LSU, the Hogs could be in Atlanta with Auburn sitting at home due to playing an ineligible player all season. Don't know if that will happen, but from the way things look right now, it is about as likely that Arkansas or LSU or Bama (depending on whether Auburn's forfeits would be immediate or after the season) will be in Atlanta as it is that Auburn will be.
ROFLMAO. It took them 5 years to conclude the Reggie Bush investigation, and they actually had a money trail there. This isn't anything but a bunch of conflicting he said/he said stories at this point. You're delusional if you think this will resolve in the next 3 weeks to the point that Ark could make it to Atlanta. Forget the fact that Ark has 2 losses just like Bammer, and bammer beat Ark.
I don't think the FBI works as slowly as the keystone cops at the NCAA do. If Auburn has to forfeit this season's games before the SEC Championship Game, Arkansas would have one loss and Bama would have two - thus no tie breaker involving Bama would be needed. As I wrote, the way things are trending this week, it looks as likely that LSU, Arkansas, or Bama will go to Atlanta as it does that Auburn would, and Arkansas is still in the mix depending on whether Auburn's forfeits happen before the SEC Championship Game or after. Nothing is for certain at this point, but you can bet attorneys in Baton Rouge, Fayetteville, Starkville, and Tuscaloosa are looking into what kind of legal action they could bring to prevent an ineligible player from carrying the Tiger Eagles to Atlanta. You can bet the folks at the SEC headquarters are working with league attorneys to draw up various contingency plans to roll out depending on how far the Newton investigation has gotten by Thanksgiving. The SEC does NOT want an ineligible player carrying his team to a division title and a spot in the SEC Championship Game, much less that ineligible player playing in the conference championship game.
How do you figure Ark won't be in Atlanta? The way things are trending this week, if the Hogs win their games against MSU and LSU, the Hogs could be in Atlanta with Auburn sitting at home due to playing an ineligible player all season. Don't know if that will happen, but from the way things look right now, it is about as likely that Arkansas or LSU or Bama (depending on whether Auburn's forfeits would be immediate or after the season) will be in Atlanta as it is that Auburn will be.
ROFLMAO. It took them 5 years to conclude the Reggie Bush investigation, and they actually had a money trail there. This isn't anything but a bunch of conflicting he said/he said stories at this point. You're delusional if you think this will resolve in the next 3 weeks to the point that Ark could make it to Atlanta. Forget the fact that Ark has 2 losses just like Bammer, and bammer beat Ark.
I don't think the FBI works as slowly as the keystone cops at the NCAA do. If Auburn has to forfeit this season's games before the SEC Championship Game, Arkansas would have one loss and Bama would have two - thus no tie breaker involving Bama would be needed. As I wrote, the way things are trending this week, it looks as likely that LSU, Arkansas, or Bama will go to Atlanta as it does that Auburn would, and Arkansas is still in the mix depending on whether Auburn's forfeits happen before the SEC Championship Game or after. Nothing is for certain at this point, but you can bet attorneys in Baton Rouge, Fayetteville, Starkville, and Tuscaloosa are looking into what kind of legal action they could bring to prevent an ineligible player from carrying the Tiger Eagles to Atlanta. You can bet the folks at the SEC headquarters are working with league attorneys to draw up various contingency plans to roll out depending on how far the Newton investigation has gotten by Thanksgiving. The SEC does NOT want an ineligible player carrying his team to a division title and a spot in the SEC Championship Game, much less that ineligible player playing in the conference championship game.
So, you think that's why the FBI was called in...to expedite Cam and Auburn being declared ineligible? I guess when you're a fan of a school that isn't going to Atlanta, you'll dream up all kinds of scenarios to wish it so. You Ark fans are pretty funny. Don't hear that much from y'all, but y'all are kinda funny.
What are you talking about? You're the one that's delusional and acting like an abused stepchild that thinks everybody is out to get him.
I made no comment on why the FBI is involved, and quite frankly I have no idea why they are involved. If the NCAA was the only organization looking into the situation, I would say it would take at least two to three years to resolve, but I don't think the FBI will work at such a glacial pace. Additionally, the SEC office is going to want some kind of resolution by Thanksgiving so they know who will be playing in Atlanta pending the outcome of the last games of the season. If the MSU folks are found to be credible, don't expect to see Auburn orange in the Georgia Dome next month.
What are you talking about? You're the one that's delusional and acting like an abused stepchild that thinks everybody is out to get him.
I made no comment on why the FBI is involved, and quite frankly I have no idea why they are involved. If the NCAA was the only organization looking into the situation, I would say it would take at least two to three years to resolve, but I don't think the FBI will work at such a glacial pace. Additionally, the SEC office is going to want some kind of resolution by Thanksgiving so they know who will be playing in Atlanta pending the outcome of the last games of the season. If the MSU folks are found to be credible, don't expect to see Auburn orange in the Georgia Dome next month.
Nobody's out to get me. I'm participating in an internet discussion.
The SEC has a plan in place for not knowing who will go to Atlanta until the final weekend. Don't fret about them, they'll be ok.
I'll say it again...the outcome of football games, and ONLY the games...as they play out on the field will determine who goes to Atlanta. Period. Sorry if that sounds like I'm hurt or offended.
Here is another interesting tweet from Tracy Wolfson about back-up QBs at Auburn and the offense they "will run". Kind of sounds like someone might not be playing afterall.
Supposedly (according to a PM I got from someone that is following this story very closely) ... Cecil Newton has now admitted that he did indeed ask for money from MSU in order for Cam to play there ... but also says that no money ever changed hands.
I haven't been able to find the report, but have asked for my 'source' to give me a link or something to where I can find it.
I have no idea if the NCAA will believe that Cam had no knowledge of any of this, or if they will think that Cecil is just trying to shield Cam from any punishment. I'm pretty sure that simply having an agent is enough to have someone declared ineligible. In fact, listening to Dan Patrick the other day on the radio, he said he asked the NCAA if soliciting money (even if you don't get it) is a violation, and they told him that it is ... but he did not ask what the penalty for such actions are, nor did the NCAA offer anything in terms of what the consequences would be. This was also before Cecil admitted to trying to get money for Cam.
My guess - FWIW - is that Cam will be declared ineligible based on Cecil Newton's confession ... but that all remains to be seen, as well as what other consequences may be out there ... such as Auburn having to vacate wins, or possibly having MSU and/or AU receive any sanctions at the university level ...
things are definitely getting very interesting now ...
Arkansas is 7-2 and will be 8-2 after tomorrow unless they lose to UTEP.
If Arkansas destroys UTEP, as they should, and the usual number of losses occur to people above them, the LSU Ark game will be probably number five at worst vs. maybe number ten. If LSU is fortunate enough to win that game after thumping Ole Miss...which is not at all a certainty either....then I would be shocked if they don't pass BS and TCU. Lot of ifs there that would have to go their way.
Of course, with all this Auburn drama, they could sneak into the SEC championship game, too.
I can't help but feel sorry for Cam Newton, who has obviously made some mistakes but is still an incredible athlete whose college career has apparently bee boofooed by his greedy/stupid father.
I pretty much lost all respect for Auburn after they stomped out the eye of the tiger after a football game at Tiger stadium and they had to resod the whole damn field and redo the eye at great expense. Seemed low class to me.
Regardless of the Cam Newton situation, Auburn has always been the team that I've disliked the most in the SEC, mainly because they are an SEC West rival, and they have shown the most disrespect and 'lack of class' of any other SEC team.
Now, considering everything that's going on right now - mainly that AU beat LSU this year, I'm a HUGE Georgia fan at the moment ...
That's not the only meat they like, hence my disdain in a round about way. I've only had the clap 14 times and all from different Auburn sorority gals.
That's not the only meat they like, hence my disdain in a round about way. I've only had the clap 14 times and all from different Auburn sorority gals.
I started the day sitting right behind the driver of the Auburn bandwagon. I'd heard so many good things that I decided to take a ride. I like a winner just as much as the next guy.I started feeling queasy by the end of the 1st quarter.By halftime I was quite nauseous. By the end of the game I found myself feeling like I needed a shower. Too much dirty and too many late hits by un-Fairley.
I started the day sitting right behind the driver of the Auburn bandwagon. I'd heard so many good things that I decided to take a ride. I like a winner just as much as the next guy.I started feeling queasy by the end of the 1st quarter.By halftime I was quite nauseous. By the end of the game I found myself feeling like I needed a shower. Too much dirty and too many late hits by un-Fairley.
I'd debate that, SOMEWHAT, but will leave it at that...nothing to be gained by it. Sorry you feel that way.
They are a great team. Newton is pretty much unstoppable. I didn't care for his right jab in lieu of a stiff-arm. I'm not sure that many could have gotten of with a warning from the ref. Fairley was hitting the Georgia QB late and driving him into the ground all day. It evidently has been a problem as it was brought up by the announcers in the pre-game or early minutes of the game. 2 players were ejected on separate plays near the end. I'm just saying that they need to clean it up a bit.
2 players were ejected on separate plays near the end. I'm just saying that they need to clean it up a bit
I agree and will wager that you won't see the punches happen again. I've got a good feeling that somebody is paying for it dearly right about now.
I would be more inclined to believe that the discussion is more along the lines of "Don't (wink) do that (wink) anymore (wink).
Sorry, don't know any coach that would promote that type of behavior. The Auburn players that got ejected acted with monumental stupidity. They'll pay a price this next week, and they have to sit the first half of the game vs. bammer. They've let the team down in that regard.
I started the day sitting right behind the driver of the Auburn bandwagon. I'd heard so many good things that I decided to take a ride. I like a winner just as much as the next guy.I started feeling queasy by the end of the 1st quarter.By halftime I was quite nauseous. By the end of the game I found myself feeling like I needed a shower. Too much dirty and too many late hits by un-Fairley.
You can bet Auburn fans find nothing wrong with any of the plays Saturday. What cheap shots?
I should point out that Fairley has only one late hit all year. As for him driving quaterbacks into the ground in attempt to hurt them....of course thats what he's doing and there's no rules against it. Knocking quaterbacks out of the game is what a nose guard is suppose to do. Don't like it, watch soccer.
The dirty shot in the back on Murry way after the ball was thrown is blatant. Take a look at the the links above, Fairly is most assuredly a dirty player
I should point out that Fairly has only one late hit all year. As for him driving quaterbacks into the ground in attempt to hurt them....of course thats what he's doing and there's no rules against it. Knocking quaterbacks out of the game is what a nose guard is suppose to do. Don't like, play soccer.
This is true ... The NFL has a rule against that kind of action against a QB but college doesn't ... If someone feels that this rule should be adopted by college football, that's one thing, but as long as the rules allow it I'm fine with it and would encourage my defensive players to drive the QB into the ground whenever they can as long as it's done during a legal tackle ...
The dirty shot in the back on Murry way after the ball was thrown is blatant. Take a look at the the links above, Fairly is most assuredly a dirty player
I agree with that too ... and from what I saw - and being as objective as possible - I would have tossed him from the game for it. That hit was WAY late, totally on purpose, and meant to inflict 'harm' on the QB when there's no way he could have expected to be hit. Nothing "questionable" about that particular late hit at all ... it's VERY evident what Fairley's intentions were on that play, thus an ejection would have been proper and I don't think anyone other than an AU fan, player or coach would have possibly had any problem with said ejection ...
I should point out that Fairly has only one late hit all year. As for him driving quaterbacks into the ground in attempt to hurt them....of course thats what he's doing and there's no rules against it. Knocking quaterbacks out of the game is what a nose guard is suppose to do. Don't like, play soccer.
This is true ... The NFL has a rule against that kind of action against a QB but college doesn't ... If someone feels that this rule should be adopted by college football, that's one thing, but as long as the rules allow it I'm fine with it and would encourage my defensive players to drive the QB into the ground whenever they can as long as it's done during a legal tackle ...
I started the day sitting right behind the driver of the Auburn bandwagon. I'd heard so many good things that I decided to take a ride. I like a winner just as much as the next guy.I started feeling queasy by the end of the 1st quarter.By halftime I was quite nauseous. By the end of the game I found myself feeling like I needed a shower. Too much dirty and too many late hits by un-Fairley.
You can bet Auburn fans find nothing wrong with any of the plays Saturday. What cheap shots?
I should point out that Fairley has only one late hit all year. As for him driving quaterbacks into the ground in attempt to hurt them....of course thats what he's doing and there's no rules against it. Knocking quaterbacks out of the game is what a nose guard is suppose to do. Don't like it, watch soccer.
You can defend late hits and dirty hits as much as you like, doesn't much change the facts though, does it?
The dirty shot in the back on Murry way after the ball was thrown is blatant. Take a look at the the links above, Fairly is most assuredly a dirty player
Fairley was flagged for the first time Sat. night for a late hit on a QB. I'd think a "dirty player" would have been flagged a few more times. What you don't see either, is that the UGA OL took their shots at Fairley most of the afternoon as well.
And this one came in the 2nd quarter, clearly intentional too. Fairley's flag came in the 3rd.
I'm still saying that the "Civil War" at Oregon State on December 4, and the "Iron Bowl" on Fri, Nov. 26 at Alabama, are going to be VERY interesting.
Two teams, playing host to their in-state, arch-rivals, with nothing left to play for except ruining that visiting rival's chance at the national title, hmmmm....
I doubt either of those games will be easy, or nice.
I should point out that Fairley has only one late hit all year. As for him driving quaterbacks into the ground in attempt to hurt them....of course thats what he's doing and there's no rules against it. Knocking quaterbacks out of the game is what a nose guard is suppose to do. Don't like it, watch soccer.
You can defend late hits and dirty hits as much as you like, doesn't much change the facts though, does it?
Not defending late hits...they should be called. The whole game was chippy. The AU/UGA game often is. Fairley had shots taken at him all game as well.
no arguments from me on your showing the illegal blocks that UGA was throwing ... but we also all know that doesn't excuse anything done by anyone in terms of 'retaliatory' illegal hits/blocks ... you know ... the whole "two wrongs don't make a right" thing ...
I also agree with 280shooter's statement:
Originally Posted by 280shooter
You can defend late hits and dirty hits as much as you like, doesn't much change the facts though, does it?
I'm still saying that the "Civil War" at Oregon State on December 4, and the "Iron Bowl" on Fri, Nov. 26 at Alabama, are going to be VERY interesting.
Two teams, playing host to their in-state, arch-rivals, with nothing left to play for except ruining that visiting rival's chance at the national title, hmmmm....
I doubt either of those games will be easy, or nice.
The hatred in the iron bowl is much more with the fans, than the players. Not much in the way of extracurricular activity usually goes on in the iron bowl. The AU/UGA game is often a very rough game.
LSU v. AU is typically a pretty hard-hitting game as well, to say the least. Some of the biggest hits I've seen have come in the games between those two teams ... In fact, I always expect there to be a myriad of injuries on both sides of the ball when LSU and AU play ... regardless of what might be at stake ...
To say they don't like each other would be the understatement of the century ...
Auburn, playing for a shot at the title, AT 'Bama, with 'Bama having the defending Heisman winner against Newton in the driver's seat for the current Heisman?
No, that one is simply going to be patty-cake all day for both sides.
OU/OSU, though, is likely to be far more... "physical"?
no arguments from me on your showing the illegal blocks that UGA was throwing ... but we also all know that doesn't excuse anything done by anyone in terms of 'retaliatory' illegal hits/blocks ... you know ... the whole "two wrongs don't make a right" thing ...
I also agree with 280shooter's statement:
Originally Posted by 280shooter
You can defend late hits and dirty hits as much as you like, doesn't much change the facts though, does it?
I agree, but I think I'm going to join you folks on the "if it's legal, it aint dirty" bandwagon here. Y'all have convinced me.
Fairley had one late hit in that game...probably retaliatory for being chop blocked and such. Still uncalled for, and I'd have been fine if he had been ejected for it.
Auburn, playing for a shot at the title, AT 'Bama, with 'Bama having the defending Heisman winner against Newton in the driver's seat for the current Heisman?
No, that one is simply going to be patty-cake all day for both sides.
OU/OSU, though, is likely to be far more... "physical"?
Sean, it will be a hard fought game, but it's almost always clean. The AU/UGA game has history.
Auburn, playing for a shot at the title, AT 'Bama, with 'Bama having the defending Heisman winner against Newton in the driver's seat for the current Heisman?
No, that one is simply going to be patty-cake all day for both sides.
OU/OSU, though, is likely to be far more... "physical"?
Sean, it will be a hard fought game, but it's almost always clean. The AU/UGA game has history.
Clean, as is played, vs. clean as is called, are two completely different things.
I think I'm going to join you folks on the "if it's legal, it aint dirty" bandwagon here. Y'all have convinced me.
Since it's worked it's way into the conversation ... I'll just say this. In sports, what's "legal" (i.e. within the rules) IS what defines the boundaries of "morality" and "ethics" ... end of story.
The only "unethical" things are those which happen outside the rules ... everything else SHOULD be expected, taught, and prepared for...
Auburn, playing for a shot at the title, AT 'Bama, with 'Bama having the defending Heisman winner against Newton in the driver's seat for the current Heisman?
No, that one is simply going to be patty-cake all day for both sides.
OU/OSU, though, is likely to be far more... "physical"?
Sean, it will be a hard fought game, but it's almost always clean. The AU/UGA game has history.
Clean, as is played, vs. clean as is called, are two completely different things.
We'll see.
You think I don't know the history of this game? Most former players will tell you the same thing. Believe what you want.
I should point out that Fairley has only one late hit all year. As for him driving quaterbacks into the ground in attempt to hurt them....of course thats what he's doing and there's no rules against it. Knocking quaterbacks out of the game is what a nose guard is suppose to do. Don't like it, watch soccer.
You can defend late hits and dirty hits as much as you like, doesn't much change the facts though, does it?
Not defending late hits...they should be called. The whole game was chippy. The AU/UGA game often is. Fairley had shots taken at him all game as well.
Did a little research. The Times-Herald newspaper in Newnan, Georgia, on September 23, 2009 recorded a city council meeting with Cecil Newton and Melvin Cooper (the general contractor) hired by Newtons church. The submitted plans to bring the church building up to code. At that time the church had the money to proceed with the work once it was approved by the coucil. So this was BEFORE Auburn recruited Cam Newton and 5 months BEFORE he signed with Auburn.
The guy that was "supposed" to be representing Cam Newton is under investigation by the FBI for fraud already, and his business had filed for bankrupcy. He needed the money. So, I think all this stuff is just stirring the pot by someone who has a vendetta against Auburn. This local news paper story was never reported on the national news. If Newton wasn't elligible, Auburn wouldn't keep playing him. Why would they? Doesn't make any sense. If anything is true, why hasn't proof been shown, like hotel bills and registration when the Newtons were supposed to meed with this guy.
the Iron Bowl ought to be a hell of a game this year.....probably a much better game than LSU/Ole Miss. the Rebs....oh, excuse me....the black bears or whatever the hell they call them now....have really been in a tailspin and showed their ass massively at Tennessee.
I would think tOSU would refuse to come to the Sugar Bowl to play LSU again after last time. I'm thinking LSU might end up there against TCU or in the Cotton Bowl against the other OSU.
I think I'm going to join you folks on the "if it's legal, it aint dirty" bandwagon here. Y'all have convinced me.
Since it's worked it's way into the conversation ... I'll just say this. In sports, what's "legal" (i.e. within the rules) IS what defines the boundaries of "morality" and "ethics" ... end of story.
The only "unethical" things are those which happen outside the rules ... everything else SHOULD be expected, taught, and prepared for...
the Iron Bowl ought to be a hell of a game this year.....probably a much better game than LSU/Ole Miss. the Rebs....oh, excuse me....the black bears or whatever the hell they call them now....have really been in a tailspin and showed their ass massively at Tennessee.
I would think tOSU would refuse to come to the Sugar Bowl to play LSU again after last time. I'm thinking LSU might end up there against TCU or in the Cotton Bowl against the other OSU.
As stated; give tofu to the GameCocks this time. The "ol' ball coach" would have a field day.
Ok fellas ... quick aside from this conversation ... Let's switch to conference "names" for a moment ...
With all the re-alignment going on, why wouldn't the Big Ten change their name to get rid of the "ten" part? Aren't they tired of being called "The Big Can't Count" ???
This was/is the perfect opportunity for them to choose a name that doesn't reflect the number of teams in the conference so that when it expands to 16 teams (which it will eventually) they won't still be the "Big Ten". Same thing for the Big XII ... just change it to something else.
The Big 12 owns most of the other names that the Big Can't Count would use, as in trademarked owned, thus, Big Can't Count will remain such.
IIRC, Big 12 owns that, Big 14, and Big 16... So, Big Can't Count would have to drop the "big" part, at a minimum, and since that's likely the only place they get to hear that adjective in description of their conference/teams, well...
Did a little research. The Times-Herald newspaper in Newnan, Georgia, on September 23, 2009 recorded a city council meeting with Cecil Newton and Melvin Cooper (the general contractor) hired by Newtons church. The submitted plans to bring the church building up to code. At that time the church had the money to proceed with the work once it was approved by the coucil. So this was BEFORE Auburn recruited Cam Newton and 5 months BEFORE he signed with Auburn.
The guy that was "supposed" to be representing Cam Newton is under investigation by the FBI for fraud already, and his business had filed for bankrupcy. He needed the money. So, I think all this stuff is just stirring the pot by someone who has a vendetta against Auburn. This local news paper story was never reported on the national news. If Newton wasn't elligible, Auburn wouldn't keep playing him. Why would they? Doesn't make any sense. If anything is true, why hasn't proof been shown, like hotel bills and registration when the Newtons were supposed to meed with this guy.
I'm not sure how it can be a vandetta against Auburn if it was reported to the SEC before he ever signed with Auburn. Auburn knew about the MSU situation before the season ever started. The only "Auburn" question is why the info is coming out now.
I doubt we ever know all the facts and who knows when the NCAA will ever rule on anything. I wouldn't be surprised if the NCAA doesn't say anything about it before next season. Long enough for Cam to be in the NFL making millions, long enough for the SEC to reap the benefits of having two teams in BCS games, long enough for Malzahn to land a good head coaching job, long enough for people not to care when the truth finally comes out.
ok ... since we're now back on the Cam situation ... here's my bottom line.
Cam's dad, Cecil, has now admitted to asking for money for Cam to play at MSU. As far as I'm concerned, Cam should be declared ineligible, regardless of whether or not Cam knew anything about it. Why? Because if you're the NCAA and you don't rule that way, you have widely opened the door for any potential college player to have a family member (or someone else close to them) to ask for money for them so that they can say "I didn't know they were doing it." ...
I know it's harsh, but that SHOULD be the way it goes ... at least for now with the rules in place as they are.
That said, even though having Cam be declared ineligible would bode well for LSU, I don't want to see the kid suffer if he's truly innocent ... or any other kids who may have people go behind their back and screw them over... but what good are rules if you can't/won't enforce them?
ok ... since we're now back on the Cam situation ... here's my bottom line.
Cam's dad, Cecil, has now admitted to asking for money for Cam to play at MSU. As far as I'm concerned, Cam should be declared ineligible, regardless of whether or not Cam knew anything about it. Why? Because if you're the NCAA and you don't rule that way, you have widely opened the door for any potential college player to have a family member (or someone else close to them) to ask for money for them so that they can say "I didn't know they were doing it." ...
I know it's harsh, but that SHOULD be the way it goes ... at least for now with the rules in place as they are.
That said, even though having Cam be declared ineligible would bode well for LSU, I don't want to see the kid suffer if he's truly innocent ... or any other kids who may have people go behind their back and screw them over... but what good are rules if you can't/won't enforce them?
Yep.
Hell, if the NCAA is going to blast Jeremy Bloom for making money on endorsements he had long before college at Colorado, on something completely unrelated to football, they damned sure ought to blast the Newtons for this.
Not saying that either is right or wrong, but if one is going to get penalized, the other damned sure ought to as well.
ok ... since we're now back on the Cam situation ... here's my bottom line.
Cam's dad, Cecil, has now admitted to asking for money for Cam to play at MSU. As far as I'm concerned, Cam should be declared ineligible, regardless of whether or not Cam knew anything about it. Why? Because if you're the NCAA and you don't rule that way, you have widely opened the door for any potential college player to have a family member (or someone else close to them) to ask for money for them so that they can say "I didn't know they were doing it." ...
I know it's harsh, but that SHOULD be the way it goes ... at least for now with the rules in place as they are.
That said, even though having Cam be declared ineligible would bode well for LSU, I don't want to see the kid suffer if he's truly innocent ... or any other kids who may have people go behind their back and screw them over... but what good are rules if you can't/won't enforce them?
I'm going to clarify here...and this does seem to be a point that is of importance from what I've heard. Cam's dad said (admits) the issue of money was discussed. It's not been said who first brought it up. IOW, he is not reported to have admitted to asking for money, it's reported that the issue of money was discussed. I think it would be a huge difference if MSU sent someone (Rogers) to contact Newton and float the idea, vs Newton letting it be known his son was for sale and looking for takers.
I know this...whether Newton sought out someone, or someone was looking to hook up Newton up...Cecil Newton didn't mean Kenny Rogers by accident.
Jim, if that hasn't been clarified, it's only because someone very stupid is responsible for asking the proper questions ...
and I'm with Sean ... NONE of this is coincidental, and I don't see how anyone - even Cecil Newton - would omit such an important aspect such as "THEY brought up money, not me!" ...
Let's face it ... Cam may not end up being declared ineligible, but by rule he should be ... no two ways about it.
Jim, if that hasn't been clarified, it's only because someone very stupid is responsible for asking the proper questions ...
and I'm with Sean ... NONE of this is coincidental, and I don't see how anyone - even Cecil Newton - would omit such an important aspect such as "THEY brought up money, not me!" ...
Let's face it ... Cam may not end up being declared ineligible, but by rule he should be ... no two ways about it.
I'm almost 100% certain the parties that need to know, know that detail. It's not been reported.
And then there's this other misguided notion that all NCAA infractions result or should result in ineligibility. You might want to study up on that. That ain't how it works. UGA was playing a player that sold a game jersey to an agent. AJ Greene. He's eligible. UGA, NOT the NCAA sat him out of caution. He committed an NCAA violation, actually several, where money changed hands. He's playing football.
Ah, so the "well, they do it so we can, too", and "we need this ***** to win us a title, so play his lyin', cheatin', theivin', money-takin' azz" card comes into play.
Cool.
Good to know.
Good to know, as well, that it looks like Cam got held to the same high academic and ethical standards that other students looking to enroll at Auburn are held to.
Wait, that'd be the second card in play again, wouldn't it?
I hear Lawrence Phillips has a nephew JUST like him; helluva ballplayer... How much does a good RB cost again?
I am wondering whether we'll get the "da man iz jes tryin' ta hol' us down" retort if/when Newton is ruled ineligible.
At this point, I'd not want to wager on the over/under.
Considering my school put forward those bastions of moral fiber, the Vick brothers, yeah, I can understand the rationale behind "needin' them bruthas to win us some games" and the "we stooped to WHAT level?" disconnect.
Ah, so the "well, they do it so we can, too", and "we need this ***** to win us a title, so play his lyin', cheatin', theivin', money-takin' azz" card comes into play.
Cool.
Good to know.
Good to know, as well, that it looks like Cam got held to the same high academic and ethical standards that other students looking to enroll at Auburn are held to.
Wait, that'd be the second card in play again, wouldn't it?
I hear Lawrence Phillips has a nephew JUST like him; helluva ballplayer... How much does a good RB cost again?
You've gone off on a crazy tangent that isn't making much sense now.
What I can tell is this. You absolutely believe every allegation made, AND you believe some that haven't even been made yet. That's your right...it's just opinion.
Regarding the Iron Bowl, as close of a game as it always is, the favored team wins the vast majority of the time. There are rarely any upsets. That doesn't mean much, just saying.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.s197forum.com/forum/imagehosting/64626c741e191f.gif)
