I live in a small northern Ohio city. To our north east there is a city that has fallen into ruin. To our south east is another well on that path. Both black and Hispanic gangs are running wild.

In my town there has never been problem. As of late I've been seeing more and more persons wearing gang style clothing. Recently I've seen some gang graffiti.

Yesterday I came out of a small store and ran into one of these types. He obviously knows me from the prison. He had some lip, but being alone he did nothing. I find myself wondering the what if's. What if he had his posse? What if my wife was with me?

I never bothered going armed in my town, that has now changed. I will pack always. I'm looking at my P63 and thinking that it's a little inadequate. The combat commanders are just too big, plus I don't like cocked and locked concealed on my hip IWB.

What say you to a KAHR CW9 or CW40?

Snubnose 357 magnum w/2 speedloaders.

+1 on the Kahr.

My K40 ALWAYS rides in my truck with me in a console mounted holster, 3 mags full of Gold Dots and 2 different holsters and a fanny pack so that I have multiple carrying options when on foot.

Lots of other good options out there,but my Kahr works very well for me.

For maximum power, the Taurus 415 with one or two speedloaders is one very good solution. The 41 Mag bullet is considerably fatter than the 357. Mine spits out a 170 grain pill at up to 1400 FPS, though my carry load is only 1100 FPS. This gun is quite easy to carry, and you will not have to engage the same target twice. (Plus I have a personal bias against snubby 357s.)

For maximum convenience, it is hard to beat the Sig PT238. It's only a 380, but it is essentially a miniature 1911 that handles much better than the other compact 380s I have tried.

Another avenue to think about is something in 44 Spl. This cartridge pretty much duplicates 45 ACP ballistics in a lightweight revolver. I think the only current production is Charter Arms, but there are some older offerings that you might also find.

From the positive experience I've had with the Ruger LCP, if I was in the market for a 9mm "carry all the time" pistol, I'd be giving these a long look.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_49_75/products_id/73923

What Bristoe sez....I'll never be without mine.

Unless I am carrying my Walther PP in 32 ACP...

Or my Ruger LCR.

i carry a full sized 1911 all the time. it works for me, but i am a big dude. its not that hard for me to conceal it, and the weight doesnt bother me. no doubt in the .45 ACP to kill what i shoot either.

The Kahr CW40 is a great piece for conceled carry. Sort of like a "skinny" Glock and a lot easier to carry. Good choice.

How about a Glock 27? Or an H&K P2000SK .40. Both are totally reliable, and very concealable.

I have a CW9, and find it very comfortable to carry, and it has been 100% reliable.

new convert to the kahr


skinnier glock is an apt description ime

only worry is that in SHTF moments would miss the extra rounds the Glock holds.


say what you want, but as the OP described, 1 on 1 doesn't concern me as much as multiple assailants. guys get froggy in a group

there's something to be said to having the capacity of two revolvers before ever considering reloading.

the Kahr, makes it awful easy to leave the Glock or even the Kimber in the safe at home

perhaps too easy

still 6-7 rounds of .40 should give a guy a fighting chance at saving his or more importantly those he loves bacon.

good on ya for deciding to always go armed, in your profession i would think it would danged near be a necessity

Another avenue to think about is something in 44 Spl.


My favorite, one on right-hand cross, the other behind right hip. Kind of 'fat' for Summer wear though, .

1911 for Summertime, bullet a bit fatter, , but pistol slimmer.

They both thunk pretty good though. And, revolver/pistol gives me excuse to practice twice as much.

Comfort is a big consideration in a CCW. I like thin, revolvers are too fat. I have my P63 that I carry, but am looking or a bit more power and a slightly higher round count, plus getting away from the heel mag release. I'd carry the CZ82, but it seems uncomfortable. Also, I don't want a safety, in case my wife has to use in crisis.

Pick the cartridge you're comfortable with and then go shoot as many as possible. Made two trips to a local shop lately, one to try 9mms and another for .45s. Shot six different models of each one after the other. Shot the S&W M&P, Glock36, XDm, 1911 in .45 ACP; and the S&W M&P, Ruger SR9c, Glock 26, Kahr PM9, Sig P236 (I think) in 9mm. Great way to really get a feel for what you like. For me the G26 & SR9c and G36 really stood out. I liked the fit and feel of the 9mm Kahr, but the trigger was an abomination. Not just poor, it was horrible. I was not able to shoot any of the really small 9mms such as the LC9. Guy at shop said they (the range of very small 9mms) are good, but don't have the frame strength to hold up to the daily shooting that their rentals see. Which, of course, is not likely a factor for a dedicated concealed weapon. I do want to try the LC9 as the extra concealability means I'm more likely to actually have it with me. I have a Glock 17 but want something more concealable.

The Ruger LCP is a .380. Their small 9mm offering is the LC9.

What a mess. We should not have to put up with this kind of crap. Take care of yourself, your family and your community any way necessary.

Yes, that's what I meant to type. .380 doesn't interest me.

If I had to buy one today based on what I've shot it would be the SR9c.

As between those two, I'd recommend the Kahr CW9 over the CW40, since in such a light gun recoil will severely affect quick follow up shots, and 9mm in modern loads is perfectly adequate.

You might take a look at the new Kimber Solo pistol.

Just buy one of everything,that's what I did.

For much the same reasons...I now carry my Kel-Tec PF-9...EVERYWHERE!!! 7 rounds of 9mm and a spare mag ride with me like a second wallet.

Elk Country

HD sub compact in 9 maybe 40 never hurt to have an extra Tomcat 32 in somewhere else. get the wife packing. I use a revolver while hicking but want the hi-cap in towm.

Amen!

Sorry but my advice would be a 1911. I want the 45 for stopping power and like the way it hugs my body, almost fits as well as my wife when she hugs me. Points well and shoots well. I do not mind the hammer cocked thing. Been a lot of carry hours spent in condition 1 and have not seen any headlines about someone shooting their butt off. If the weight bothers you then one of the alloy frames could help.

Thing is, if you need it and I hope and pray you never do then you want something that will do the job. Eight in the mag and one in the chamber make for a lot of deterrent and if all else fails will do the job right when needed.

Probably easier to just make shopping a neighborhood endeavor and take your friends.

It's hard to do better than either the SIG 239 or Glock 19/23 when you weigh concealibility, hitability, reliability and a decent caliber.

I have bigger and smaller guns but these two get the most use. Everytime I think about carrying something smaller I realize if you're going to carry a gun you should carry a real gun.

My own choice at this time is a 1911 full size. I don't deem it necessary to carry a 2nd piece at this time where I live. In your situation.....I'd be thinking 2 handguns...primary to be a semi auto, medium to full size with at least 1 spare mag. 9mm, .40, or .45 your choice. Pick the nastiest self defense ammo you can find for your piece......I happen to like Winchester Ranger. 2nd piece....small hammerless .38 Special revolver or a small .380 or .32 semi auto. Carry 2nd piece on your weak side front pants pocket maybe. Feed your 2nd piece the nastiest ammo you can find. Practice, practice, practice...only your life depends on it.
You know, the next time you see this bottom feeder, he will have his boys with him. 2,3,4 guys......odds not in your favor. Let this be the motivating factor for your choices. Good luck and God bless you and your family.

Hey Crosshair
Fellow Ohio carrying too
check your PM's

Glock 23 and LCP here. The LCP was a gift from my in laws. If I didn't have that, I'd have a Smith 642.

I ALWAYS have one, and many times both, of these on me.

Whatever you get make sure you shoot plenty of your carry ammo to check feed/extract reliability.

Got it. You know our new Governor is talking about changing sentencing so the non-violent are left on the streets. Fact is, just because the crime they are accused of is non-violent doesn't mean they are non-violent. This will apply mostly to drug offenders, the most unpredictable lot.

Kahr MK40 in crossbreed IWB and LCP in back pocket holster. Mk40 has a trigger like cream honey and shoots like a dream - dependable. In the summer, I carry it in a Smart Carry. The only honest drawback of the MK40 is its weight which is one of the things that makes it so shootable. In the right holster it is not a problem. I love this combo. Concealable. Handy. Deadly.

Kahr P9 is hard to beat, my favorite conceal carry weapon

CW9 has been a utterly reliable for both me and my wife.

Me thinks most of those bangers are looking for a easy target and wont stick around long enough to warrant a mag change.

I think if they really are out to get you, they will ambush you and it wont matter what you are carrying, you probably wont know what hit you.

Most if those gangbangers are of a chicken schitt lot, and hang out in numbers for the back up.

Just my perspective, others may be of a different opinion.

That will do it.

Expat

Crosshair,
Sorry that the situation arose and that times have gotten to that sad state of affairs.
I have never had an Oh S..t!! moment where deadly violence was imminemt, but my closest friend was there. He was saved by the presence of a Commander in his hand and no one was hurt -- except for some seriously elevated blood pressure. He is now searching for a 24/7 kinda' pistol and carry rig for it. He is a huge fan of the 45acp but has resigned himself to the Kahr or Ruger's compact 9mm. My thinking is that it is better to have a 9mm on your hip when you need it, than a 44mag in the safe at home.
Good luck and get SOMETHING today!


Johnny $

G17 or G19 in a Crossbreed holster, extra mag on support side hip with a +2 (19rds). Khar PM9 in front pocket. Surefire Backup light in back pocket.

I've told this story before, but feel it is worth repeating.

Several years ago, I was headed to the hunting camp, truck loaded down with rifles, shotguns and, of course, at least two pistols, including my Glock 23 duty pistol. I fiddled around in the bed of the truck a few minutes, preparing to buy ice and gas, then went in the store. When I went in the store, the regular clerk said "Did you see the two guys who just left?". I told her "No". She then stated, "They were trying to rob me, but I told them you were a cop and they left.". I was unarmed when I went in the store.

Take what you want from my experience, but even after 28 years of law enforcement, much of it undercover, it changed me.

I think it would have changed me too! Could have just as easy gone the other way.

Not an LEO and have not been 36 years. Then I way young and stupid. Glad I made it out alive. That said I have looked at the 9mm vs 54 thing almost every way I could. It the recent news we have seen two head shots with 1 9mm that did not result in death. The first that comes to my mind was posted here. Cannot remember the details but some highly intelligent person shot himself in the head with his 9mm. The report was he was talking to the EMTs all the way to the hospital and he was released in a day of two. Again that is from my memory and that is not what it once was. The second was the Senator in AZ. She was shot in the head from side to front and is reported to be on the way to recovery. I wish her the best.

So to my way of thinking I want something bigger. I understand a 40 is good but I put my bet on a 45. It is big and heavy but that is the price I will gladly pay for my protection. God forbid I ever have to use it but if I do I want it to do the job.

living in the same town as Marty....

I DON'T carry a weapon with me...I do it for my OWN Safety..

My problem is, with the level of scum running around on the streets of our nation where ever you go, I'm sorry but I would be too tempted to use it....

and in Oregon here, criminals have more civic rights to than a law abiding citizen have...

if someone broke into my home and had my wife with a knife to her throat, if I shot and killed him... under STUPID Oregon laws, I would be guilty of murder at most, or manslaughter at a minimum.

It is illegal to kill someone in your home in Oregon, regardless of what they are attempting to do to your family involving bodily harm.

and I have to admit.. If I had to pull a firearm and use it against some low life, I wouldn't quit shooting until the magazine was empty. They'd have a hole in their head, their throat, their genitals and a few choice spots in between.

That is what the liberal left has turned this country into.
Criminals have more civil rights than they ever extend to their victims, or the state laws extend to the victims..

and all to often, the Courts are on the catch and release program for these criminals..

Crosshair-- what do you carry at work? Whatever it is, you might look for the most concealable version of that pistol available.

Otherwise, I'd go with the smallest .45 you can find.

Sounds like you need to move, or just bend over and grab your ankles.

As for a 9mm not being a manstopper, I know two men who, before I knew them, got shot with AK's. One a through and through wound of the neck, the other through the face and side of the skull. They are still around. I've also seen what Winchester Ranger 9mm will do to flesh, I'll stick with a 9mm Glock.

A lot of the early Cooper trained instructors from Gunsite, trust their lives to a Glock. Larry Vickers, probably the best living 1911 pistolsmith, reccomends a 9mm Glock, with proper ammo.

Scott F,
I fully understand what you are saying and I agree with you. But the laws of physics are in play here. To have a smaller pistol, i.e. one that is easy to carry and conceal, as a practical matter it is necessary to have a smaller cartridge.

Having an easily concealable Kahr that will hold 8 rounds of what amounts to .38 special +p ammo is not a bad thing. A 45acp in the same package would be better and a 500S&W even better, but...

Johnny $

I have the CW40 and the wife has a CW9. They both have been 100% reliable and very accurate through several hundred rounds each. The recoil is a little more stout in the .40 but still very manageable. They are pretty tough to beat, IMHO. You would not be disappointed with either.

Chuck

Talk about a close call!!!

Carry whatever you can hit with and are willing to carry all the time. I still like a 3� SP101 .357 with Buffalo Bore +P .38s and 4 Speed Strips carrying different types of ammo. It just works for me. I don�t know exactly what a P63 is, but, if that is what I had to deal with, I would learn to deal with it and go from there.

My sentiments exactly. We all have our favorites but build, climate, etc. will determine what you are willing to dedicate yourself to.

George

A G23 and a spare mag should get you out of any trouble your dumb azz allowed you to get into in the first place.

Isn't that the second rule of a gunfight, to have a gun? (The first is to avoid a gunfight if at all possible.) The easier it is to carry, and the more you make it a habit to carry, the more likely you will be to have it when you need it.

Since you don't like carrying hot I would look no farther than a SIG yes a few dollars more but ask yourself one question is your life worth it. If it isn't don't even bother carrying.

I may get flamed for this, but I've been toting a kel-Tec P11 for about a dozen years or more now. Once I ran 250 FMJ rounds through it, it has never malfunctioned once. I hand load the excellent Hornady XTP 124 gr projectiles for it, and they feed and function quite well. If I want to go to ankle carry, I use the original Meg Gar 10 round mags. 11 rounds with a couple of 15 round S&W 59 series mags for back-up gives me a certain comfort level. If I carry on my hip, I have three 15 round mags with me. I don't even notice it's there, and I carry it ALWAYS. I carry in the house, yard, even leave it on the toilet when I'm in the shower. I have many other choices, but have always come back to the arm that affords me enough firepower with all-day comfort. If it's not a problem to carry all day, I'll carry it all day. The long, heavy DOA trigger has improved my shooting on every other platform that I enjoy shooting, and my P11 flat out shoots where I point it. I only need see the front sight, and it's hit if within a reasonable range for this type gun. I live in a fairly good neighborhood, but we have seen an influx of undocumented folks in recent years, and I'm not taking any chances with my family's safety. Though the new folks don't realize it, I understand their language fluently, and I don't care for some of what I hear. They don't need to know that I know what is being said. I figure that's an edge that I may need one day. I hope not, but we'll see. I'm a retired investigator and I know what kind of nut jobs are walking around out there. I have also had my life threatened many times due to the nature of my work. My motto is; Forewarned is forearmed. If they bring it, they had better be good, because I am.

I like the P11. It is a great value and shoots well. I didn't like the fact that it doesn't have hammer block safety, which is a potential drop problem. My other issue is the fact that I carried it at times in an ankle holster, and the barrel would rust out every week when exposed to wet conditions.

That should get you from one end of Laramie to the other in the middle of a melt down with no sweat.

We carry 30+ year old S+W 64's. I do not care for a revolver in a CCW carry. It simply is too fat and uncomfortable. That and I don't want to have to pocket a speed loader when a simple flat extra mag is easy to conceal.

Our departments training is nothing to base anything on. Squat and shoot in a pooping position. One day a year, most of that spent grilling and playing corn hole. %0 rounds a year, that's it.

My personal training is a different matter. All auto and lots of BUG stages. I use ether the P63 or the CZ82 for those. Unfortunately all I have is steel cased FMJ for those. I tried some silver bear HP, and saw zero expansion. Hornady won't feed in the CZ 82.

The two loads that make me consider the 9mm are the CCI short barrel 9mm, and the Remington Saber 9mm. I fired both, and others into our clubs clean clay bank while it was soaked and recovered them. Most impressive. I have no question that either one would change a gang bangers mind in short order.

In a gang attack it is usually the lower guy that is trying for stature that begins the attack. Shoot him. Whoever everyone looks to at that point, if they do, is the leader, kill him if he is attacking, even if he's not the most agressive. 18 years as a C/O, you learn group dynamics.


Then again, contrary to how the instructor teaches at our club, I shoot to cover. I want some obstacle between me and them. I want to give them a chance to break off the attack. I also want to present a tactically sound scenario to the cops. " I sought cover and they pursued me into it."

He might get accosted by a college babe....

Gawd, you're an idiot!

GMTA.

Custom 1911 in a blade tech IWB holster - Glock 17, Blade Tech IWB holster, Taurus Milennium IWB holster, S&W 422 with Crimson trace grips, IWB holster when I go to the opera or theater.

I do recommend a cocked and locked pistol carry or revlover to less experienced folks. Too many AD with Glocks. The Taurus Milennium has a thumb safety, fires double action and allows for a misfire to be struck again with the firing pin if needed. Perhaps a minor attribute but one that has saved lives.

Terry

The Kel-Tec P11 has second strike capability too, and you never can tell when it might be faster than tap, rack, bang maneuvers. The old P11 is an inch thick, and the newer KT 9 is a bit slimmer, but the capacity is not as high.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b67/Sharps110/Shooting/Luke2236.jpg

I kinda like this one! Been shootin one of these since I was 10 years old! Load with 40 grs. BP and it moves a 255 gr SKWC along quite well! Sights are right on!!

Either will do the job nicely.. The Kahrs are extremely dependable. Ensure you have two spare mags for the firearm and obtain a belt-mag pouch to keep 'em handy.. Then practice, practice, practice...

They carry well, being light and slim, and should do the job if the SHTF...

Pants on = gun on.

Pants not on = gun within reach.

Fairly simple, really.

Liking the kiss factor here.



cept I carry six loose in the front pocket, in addition to the SL's.

Then tell the local hoods, "I see gang colors, I kill the man wearing it...."

If only...

H&K P7M8. If you look around, you can uncover one. IMHO, one of the best CCW ever made. Get a Kramer paddle holster for it, and you will be set. If you are not familiar with the P7M8, do a little research on it.

I've had my Kahr CW40 for a while and it is easy to carry and 100% reliable. I never had a failure of any type in the 200 round break in period recommended by Kahr. I would choose the 9mm version if that round is better suited for your wife to shoot. Any Kahr would be a good choice.

RH

... and the horse you rode in on...

Personal choice Tonto...personal choice..

wasn't advocating anyone else following that route...

I handeled one on Friday night from a LEO family friend who carries it back up. Needless to say I want one.

ML

Exactly.
Whatever you choose:
shoot it enough to hit with it , all the time.

Read any self defense or police report on stopping power or gun choice.
It always boils down to acuracy.
A hit with a .22 is always better than a miss with a .45

Hit where it counts, as often as possible.

I bought a CW9 to replace a Walther PPK/s that belonged to my dad, that weighed like an anvil. Dimensionally both pieces are similar ...... Also the Kahr is a 9mm and not a .380.

Your thread has helped remind me of some things and even reshape some conclusions.

Hit the nail right on the head!

Ok, looking at the CW9 and a Desantis Tuck-this II






[img:center]http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/pu...yqA7ZXyF0ABJVWDxdJQBFHXangUog/image_mini[/img]

I'm tired of hiding my carry.
Ohio is an open carry state, and I am getting behind the open carry folks.

We carried open all the time before PC times.
Let's get back to those days.

In some ways I agree with you but it would be rather interesting to open carry around my town. There there is a huge population of the super liberal and most are from the artistic community. I was in a restaurant a while back wit several friends. There was some mention of a gun and the waitress said the all guns were evil and she was glad to live where there weren't and guns around. As I looked around the table I had to smile inside as I knew for sure there were two concealed handguns at that table and I was not carrying. Then there were tow of three tables where others spoke up and said pretty much the same thing.

Carry in open in this environment would just give the uneducated fearful heart attacks. They are better off living in their ignorance as most have views that cannot be changed. This type of person forms opinions on their personal feelings and will not allow facts to enter into their views. It would be easier to educate a ceder stump than the artistic far left feelings mentality. I am to old and too tired to waste my energy.

So I will keep open carry for my hikes in the mountains and keep my secrets for town.

What they don't know might save a life someday.

I got that covered.... lollipops and Trojans.

I don't see anything wrong wiyh the p63 it's 9x18 isn't it?

I just picked up a FIC Mod D it's only 380 but is locked breech,
and I'm familer with the 1911 so I can shoot it a little better

than the Dao Kel-tecs or LCPs. The PA63 will get the job done!

Bob

http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtPistols/ColtNewAgentSeries.aspx

or:

http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtPistols/ColtDefenderSeries.aspx

You might also check out the Sig 290 9mm that is coming out. Looks very concealable.

Sig 290

A Big Gun is ALWAYS Comforting.

Model 29 and its friends



BMT

My usual "little friend" today.
The long barrel , compensated G 20.
But then we had over an inch of snow, so it's back to the winter coat!

Where are u from Crosshair? Ashtabula?
I am originally NE Ohio. Mentor , then Geauga county.
Worked for ages in Euclid.

Damn, bro...

There are a few reasons you can get away with carrying that cannon daily.

1) you work where and for whom you do,
2) GREAT leather,
3) jackets, daily, I'd suspect,
4) you ain't exactly "small".

How close to "right" am I?

But, yeah, that'd be rather comforting, and more than rather effective on anything you chose to use it against.

My kind of carry gun.

My favorite carry gun is a Browning HP clone (FEG). It just feels good and is accurate and will feed with any ammo I have tried.

That, or a 1911. When and where did you get an FEG?

Agree on the SP101 in .357. Mine has an action job, is ported, & has night sights. I set the wife up with a S&W Ladysmith in .38 also with an action job, porting, & night sights. I usually have a 44 Blackhawk in my truck in a mount under the visor. I'm probably in good shape for an OK Corral type shoot out.

I found it a pawn shop a few months ago. I thought I told you about it. Maybe not.

You ain't said nuffin'...

Need to see pics.

It the senility kicking. I'll try to get some pictures in the next day or two.

dang, hope you don't fall in the creek with all of that!

might have a bit of trouble sneakin into the airport too!

Glock 30. You can't go wrong with 10+1 45acp

Well said and well put. I think carrying concealed is much better myself,the less anyone knows the better. I carry a factory DAO M60 SW that was made for NYPD only thing those turds ever got right.They sold them all after they went to some wonder gun semi auto. Some times I carry others when I am clothed well enuf to insure their concealibilty. I like sw's from 1945 to 1980 and have a few auto's also but I can use them all proficiently... Magnum Man

Hey Seafire, I'm not from nor have I ever been to Oregon, but I just had to investigate your fear that your state would prosecute you for defending your home. In the yahoo search engine I typed "oregon home defense law" and this article was one of the first (and many) to pop up and it was just reported yesterday:



Fatal SE Portland shooting was self defense

Fatal SE Portland shooting was self defense

by KGW Staff
Bio | Email | Follow: @KGWNews

kgw.com

Posted on April 1, 2011 at 3:14 PM
Related:

* Friend IDs man killed in Portland shooting

PORTLAND -- A man killed in a Southeast Portland apartment Thursday was shot by his neighbor in self-defense, police said.

The Oregon State Medical Examiner concluded Friday that 49-year-old Vincent Lee Wyatt, of Southeast Portland, died from multiple gunshot wounds.

Dale Lloyd Duncan, 69, was in his own apartment and banged on the wall to alert the next door neighbor that the noise in that apartment was too loud, according to Portland Police Sgt. Pete Simpson.

Background: Friend identifies man killed in Portland shooting

Wyatt was visiting the next door unit and went over to confront Duncan, at which point he entered Duncan's residence, Simpson said. Wyatt threatened and pushed Duncan, so Duncan got a handgun and fired several shots.

Simpson said Wyatt then fell and landed on top of Duncan, who is medically fragile. When police arrived, Duncan was calling for help, with Wyatt lying on top of him.

Wyatt died at the scene and Duncan was transported to an area hospital for an unrelated medical condition. Duncan has cooperated with investigators.

No arrests were anticipated and no charges were expected to be filed in the case, as investigators determined the shooting was self-defense.



We're still in America, and we are still entitled to a trial by peers. I could never imagine 12 people all agreeing to send you to prison for killing a thug with a weapon trained on your loved one/self. Governments/laws be damned, the trial by peers infallibly enters logic into their (lawmakers) mostly illogical thought processes. God Bless the Founding Fathers, God Bless America!

There is no such term or phrase regarding "peers" in the Constitution, although today, its use is common.

Article VI reads, "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an IMPARTIAL [emphasis added] jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, ..."

Afterall, if one were entitled to a "jury of one's peers," then the jury at O.J. Simspon's murder trial should have been comprised of 12, black, professional football players, all running backs with perhaps a couple of tight ends.

L.W.

I never said it was in the Constitution. I used verbage identical to several judges I've witnessed in courtrooms. But then I wasn't picking nits.

Just wondering what your favorite method of concealed carrying is. Mine usually is in a vest or coat pocket but in a Bianchi belly band in the summer. I would not like to have to purchase five or six holsters in order to find the right one. So, any advise? I'm talking about a four inch 45 cal. Kimber.

Does that mean that the meaning of words is meaningless to you?? And the judges??

L.W.

Give me a minute while I un-loosen my belt and get my dinner un-thawed.

Seafire, it appears your handle has changed to leanwolf.

That's a Negative Ghost Rider, the pattern is full....

Hey you're a lawyer BMT here in Oregon...

Is it illegal to kill someone in your home in self defense if it comes to that, or did I have the local sheriff, and the county attorney blowing me smoke???

I heard the same thing when I took my CCW course from the instructor, and have seen other instructors say the same thing...

I don't carry one, or have one loaded in the home...but I do have one for my wife... I'd rather she kill someone and fight that in court, and I bank on the courts being more understanding if a female defended herself from harm, than the liberals would if a conservative male did so defending himself and his family...

Myself, I carry a Kimber Tactical Pro II 45 ACP everywhere I go. Ya never know when you might run into some punk "opertunist".

JD338

Not an attorney but I carried in Oregon when I lived there. Know of no such law. Know of a bunch of gun owners defending themselves and having it ruled justified. I am thinking you were lied to. Will have to wait to see what the real attorneys have to say.

Check out OFF for state gun laws. A great group of people.

There's been some good advice passed on this thread and some bad advice.

Two things I'd like to add.

First, the model of pistol you should own is the one you're willing to carry everyday - NOT the heavy or bulky pistol you'll carry every once-in-a-while.

Second, with today's modern self-defense ammo, the caliber you choose is not nearly as significant as it was years ago. As dad always, "if you use it you're probably going to be close and you're probably going to ventilate the guy" Empty a magazine of anything and bad guy is in a bad spot.

jeezus, you're an idiot shaking empty cages...

There isn't a prosecuting attorney in their right mind who would push a case of a person lawfully shooting an armed intruder inside their own home, and if there were, there isn't a jury that would convict. And to think that someone would cower to the thought that there is goes to show just how puzzified this Country really is!

As the old saying goes, I'd rather be tried by twelve, than carried by six!

bingo

I'd start with a Comp-Tac, Infidel, IWB holster and go from there.

The two belt loops version is what I prefer.


Travis

Crimes not bad here, so I carry an S&W 642. IF things turned into what you have I'd start carrying my Ruger SR9. 17 rounds. After several hundred rounds with out a hick up I have utmost confidence in it. Plus it shoots like a lazer beam.

I've been carrying a Kahr P45 for a year and a half. DeSantis Cozy Partner IWB that is OK but not great.
6+1 CCI Gold Dot 230gr short barrel loads and two 6 round mags in reserve.

This is effectively the same size as the P9, and surprisingly does not seem to recoil any more than my Colt Combat Commander.

I see that Kahr has come out with a less expensive line, the CM series?

Like VA Nimrod says, pants on gun on, pants off, gun within reach.

Mark

That Kahr .45 of yours is a really sweet shooting gun. I was pleasantly surprised by the relatively mild recoil.

Re-evaluate

I have a 3" GP-100 stainless. It does seem to tuck well even without a holster. So, what about that gun in a Cross Breed Holster? Does that holster tend to flatten things out?

What does that GP-100 weigh fully loaded? My guess is, it's not something you're going to want carry day-in and day-out, especially in warmer weather.

OK I didn't read this, except for the first page. Did it get ugly?

I was thinking the GP-100 when it's cold, the Polish P64 in shorts and a T-Shirt

Thanks

Ivan

Also very comfortable is a Summer Special from Milt Sparks. I have carried a Sig P229 DAO for hours in one. It is IWB and works real well -- ultra concealment.

Thanks, Keith.

What's happening up in yo' part of this old world?

Still got enough winter to enjoy?

I'm ready for summer. This winter has been long and steady, not anywhere near severe, but just gloomy weather day after day.

Hurry, summer.

Ivan

jeezus, you're an idiot shaking empty cages...

Well aren't we high and mighty up in Eugene....

I am passing on what I was told by a district attorney and the county sheriff...

and now I am asking clarification for an Oregon resident forum attorney...

Being called an idiot by someone from Eugene... well, that is a clear case of the kettle trying to call the pot black...

Some of us try and operate within the guidelines of the law, whether we like it or not....

[

There isn't a prosecuting attorney in their right mind who would push a case of a person lawfully shooting an armed intruder inside their own home, and if there were, there isn't a jury that would convict. And to think that someone would cower to the thought that there is goes to show just how puzzified this Country really is!

As the old saying goes, I'd rather be tried by twelve, than carried by six! [/quote]



... and the horse you rode in on...

The only problem with that is that if you run into a prosecutor with an agenda you will likely be left penniless, even if you do win. Also is the fact that when the paper reports your job they might fire you.


Same goes in a civil case.

Exactly. The proposed castle law in Iowa died in the legislature. We had LE officials and attorney groups complaining that it makes it too easy to escape prosecution. My impression has been that LE officials like our local police chief have a cavalier attitude toward the civil liability an ordinary citizen faces in self defense cases. Of course if they are involved in a shooting, the city will defend them.

I am supportive of law enforcement, but unfortunately too many in the profession have a myopic view that prevents them from seeing the broader world outside their own.

Paul

I often wonder how many would take a plea rather than fight it and see their families on the street.

If I was faced with the choice of being dead or just penniless, I would chose the later.

Crossfire,
PM sent!

That wasn't the choice, it was family on the street and broke or a period in prison with a felony. Wrongly accused and prosecuted by someone immune from the ramifications.


http://completelylegal.lohudblogs.c...le-for-evidence-withholding-prosecutors/

Thats the kind of stuff that gripes my asss in this country.

Prosecutors, DAs, Cops are immune to breaking the law, and have little or no ramifications on the flip side.

And many will screw over a private citizen just to make their resume and track record look good. A family friend is going thru that now, and the DA's office is just out to keep a track record high, as they brag about their conviction rate... even when the entire thing is bogus from the getgo.

Exactly. Sometimes one's notion of personal honor conflicts with their first obligation to care for their family.

Rare is the working man who doesn't have to swallow a fair amount of crap in order to be able to care for his family and meet his other obligations. Those who aren't in such a position are indeed fortunate.

Paul

You continue to think that cops are immune from criminal prosecution. They might get out of a traffic ticket or such. But i know of two in this state who've served time for felonies that they committed while on the job.

I may be wrong on this but if you are not indicted or even found not guilty in a self-defense case in Oregon you still may be able to be sued in civil court for an "unlawful death".

I contacted several of our local legislators about their position on a "Castle Doctrine" statute in Oregon, and received no answers. And I live in the eastern part of the state which in general, is firearm friendly.

Roundup.

That is an outrage. Refusal to communicate with a constituent with an honest answer to a question should result in a lost vote.

That's what I have done in similar circumstances.

Paul

Too much bullschitt on this thread. I'm opening another one.

Carried the G23 at work, now that I am retired, I carry the G27.

Counted on a Glock then, count on them now as well. Personal taste.........sure. The .40 has very few detractors based on real results and I wouldn't expect there to be. My choice in brand and cartridge, FWIW (plus the majority of LE agencies nation wide).................YMMV.

Sorry about your socio-geographical issues, as of late. You are not alone is experiencing that sort of neighborhood "decline". Be safe and best of luck.

Doc I'll agree with you there....what is BS is the way you can't get clarification on stuff like this "Castle Domain" style laws in this state...

because this conversation is about Oregon here.. and its the tail wagging the Dog... Portland Salem Eugene and then the rest of us occupying the other 99 % of the state...