So far, I hate the Hollywood showman style CNN is putting on. So stupid.

Get a load of Gingrich's gut!

I'm not seeing a Tea-Party debate on CNN.


Found it.

Romney just [bleep] up by suggesting that Social Security is constitutional. He also screwed up by suggesting it's not a Ponzi scheme.

And that it's not forced upon us.

Yep. Showing himself for a wish washy.

Romney is going RINO hard now.

BMT

somebody slap huntsman for me.

Huntsman bogarted a blunt before coming onboard.

huntsman must of left clarabell at home with buffalo bob

Romney just lost any semblance of a thought of support, here.

Huntsman just needs his ass kicked.

I'm thinking the Dem party is paying into Huntsman's campaign funding.

Uh, Hello, RP did the exact same thing!
Oh I forgot....

Romney's doing something I didn't think possible: he's starting to annoy me as much as Ron Paul does.

Also note they are the two with the most presidential debate experience... hmmmmm....

My mother called from the road this afternoon to tell me she and my step father decided to go this morning and were driving up to be in the audience.

I still can't bring myself to watch it.

Newt really REALLY needs to be the press secretary for our next Republican president.

Middle class tax cuts--Sounds Obama-ish.

Don't get CNN and the internet connection is too jumpy to watch it online DAMMIT!

Rommney wants to be all things to all people. Ain't working.

"If you are saying I can be bought for $5,000... I'm offended."

So there IS a price you can be bought for? Ooops....

But Wolf is being successful, destroy the front runner...

T;

Ya ain't missing a damned thing.

LOL where have you been? He's benn beyond RINO since Massatwoshits.

He's mind is too valuable for that, but it would make for interesting blood baths, er, briefings.

He pretended Conservative previously.

I didn't like the hokey intro, but it's turned out to be a pretty good show.

Perry isn't too quick on his feet. Bachmann still has my vote out of this group.

Neil Boortz for press secretary. That would esplody some heads.

With his baggage you either have to have him in hiding or up front and center. I say let him eat the press. It would make press conferences worth watching.

No he didn't.

I'm amazed at how you guys are getting all worked up.

The nomination has already been decided.

Um, yeah... he did.

Including mine.

Agreed.

I had the same exact thought when he said that. It was a huge slip.

finally a question about the wets

I like her performance today. Paul too. Perhaps Paul/Bachmann.

He most certainly did. You are beyond help when it comes to the RP love. You would do yourself, and your 'cause' a world of help by admitting every last word that he utters is NOT gospel. But then that would be blasphemous wouldn't it.
The DVR is running so I could go back and type his response verbatim but you and I both know you'll never admit he did the exact same thing you ripped his opponents for. Just a LITTLE intellectual honesty would go a LONG way.

He certainly did not. I have it DVRed, so I'll quote what he said later.

Bachmann's on fire.

Perry just made the point in state tuition for illegals sends the message we don't care what your last name is...he just played the [bleep] race card!

Social Security would even make Berney Maddoff proud.

...L'ingMAO...

It's pin the tail on Perry night...implicit front runner treatment.

Huntsman is the biggest tool in the toolbag.

Big mistake on Perry's part.
Newt is (once again ) the smartest person on the stage.

Yep. He took a big hit with that one.

True.

Go Herman go!

It's really sad that this is the best we can come up with.

I'll be more than content after pulling the lever for Perry.

Perry is stepping on his dik.

Is that really a purple suit?

Haven't watch any of it but you guys commentary is pretty good.

I read today that Bachmann was going into Super-Bitch mode for the debates tonight and going to go after Perry via any means available.

In your estimation,..is that what she's doing..?

Ron Paul has lost it.

Quickly.

Ron Paul is toast !

ron paul is a [bleep] nut

Sad thing is he has a marginally defensible position regarding the tution (the fact it's only for those legally seeking citizenship) but did a pretty poor job of stating it. Of course none of the others would (understandably) help him out with it.

that assumes he had it to lose in the first place.

Paul should have emphasized that it was the CIA report that indicated the terrorist threat was a "blowback" issue, rather than being grounded in a hatred for the principles we stand for, our prosperity, etc.

When the 'tea party' boos your foreign policy assessment of the muzzies... well.... turn out the lights Ronnie.
Actually not. The true Paulies will never ever ever let him die.

That's correct and it's what the candidates,both sides,will end up doing when all said and done.

There will be very little change in the polling numbers save for Huntsman, Bachmann and Paul who just dropped to single digits and looked like a utter fool.

Bachman is the only one up there with no liberal skeletons to defend. Paul just cut his wrist blaming the U.S for 9-11.

Perry's getting tag teamed HARD!

People ain't got time to listen to nuts.

By whom? We're hearing far different things.

Well.... there obviously should be no doubt Ron Paul won't be the GOP nominee. Somebody get him some prozac!

Just about. She's coming off very well, IMO.

That's because she's never done anything.

Bachman, Santorum and Mitt, all joined in shoving in-state tuition and mandatory vaccination up his ass.

It's only to be expected that a small percentage is going to boo a non-neocon response to a foreign policy question.

The Paulbots will have the old boy strapped up in the saddle like El Cid, running him for president years after his death.

Michele Bachmann appears to be a woman of conviction, but she's stuck on "Obamacare". Getting rid of it is great, but there are a 1,000 other things that need tending to. Maybe they should make her Sec of HHS.

Bachmann is done. She might get 2nd in Iowa,if she's very lucky. She won't win any state thereafter. How has she hurt anyone and with what exchange are you referring?

Don't forget....she's been "fighting" for this, "fighting" for that....she should run for president of the WWF.

LMAO! So, who are Bachman, Santorum and Mitt?!!

LMAO! I, too am hearing different things.

He was very clear that he was stating the motives for the attack, not stating that the motives provided justification. Murderers all have motives. Saying that is not providing an excuse for murderers.

===============

You think so,huh? Perry handled it beautifully and Bachmann is a minimal consideration,as is Santorum.

Perry and Romney stay clearly at the top.

Yes but the voters are going to take it differently.

OMG, now they are going to have that little weasel Anderson Cooper to talk about the debate.

Good point. Only one of that bunch don't like men.

I don't know what you mean?

You're right. It was poorly stated.

that vaccine stuff may play to a tiny slice of the voters, but about 98% are saying....these people are nucking futs.


and Hawk, Ron has always postulated cause and effect from US foreign policy with which he disagrees to the 9/11 (and presumably the many other) terrorist attacks on US interests.


the question is really whether you let Osama bin Laden's reaction to our foreign policy decide what you should do. Ron's pretty clear that for him that answer is yes, but only because he already wants to do what Osama wants him to, for other reasons.

the non-loons realize that, while the reaction of psychos is something to take into account, we don't trim our sails to suit the whims of our enemies, and we don't run from threats by two bit raghead "holy" men.

Well Perry just received Bob's "KISS OF DEATH"!

You guys do know the Miss Universe pageant is on right?

OMG Miss Australia. I am in love. Don't tell my girlfriend...

And now CNN spends time congratulated THEMSELVES on how great a debate they put on? At least some things can be predicted...

Exactly, that vaccine stuff is nothing....and neither is the in state tuition with our large Hispanic population.

Some of y'all can argue for states rights, or against states rights, but you can't have it both ways.

What's really hilarious is that I have not watched a single second of the debate and every post in this thread is completely predictable. Should be interesting to watch the thing now that I have read all the rubber stamp comments

What's really hilarious is that I have not watched a single second of the debate and every post in this thread is completely predictable
===============

Yours especially.

That's all so weird, as my daughter was that age, at that time. The deal was...get the vaccine or "opt out". That meant, when the kid went to school that year, they showed proof of vaccination or a parent signed a piece of paper saying they didn't won't it.

Well it's clear from the CNN talking heads, they like... Romney. Imagine that!

What perl of wisdom am I supposed to get out of that response?

it's beyond weird to creepy....every pediatrician gives that shot now as a matter of course. real flat earth stuff. but Bachman's fan base seem to like it....

I was initially attracted to her fiscal policy positions, until it became clear she couldn't talk about tax rates or the fed without bringing up her Jesus and her twenty-some foster kids. I get it that you're a Christian, Michelle, but could you talk about the issue on the table.

Don't ask, it'll cost you 350 an hour!

he's one of theirs

No kidding. The MSM has told us from day one that he is the man they want, if we're dumb enought to vote out Obama.

Oh oh!

And oh yeah... sorry... the 30 year old does need to "enjoy the benefits of his decisions." aka , die. Something else RP couldn't say.

jeezus...if that's the best the GOP has, well... we are truly screwed...god help us

charlie

Wrong! Bill him upon recovery!

This will come out sounding really bad but I'll say it anyway. I'm not sure someone who has that many foster kids or kids of their own is all "right". Just saying.

Right now I'd take anything except another socialist.

So then why get insurance? And what are you doing to do when he doesn't pay?

So many nominees and not a one fit to be president.

That's a fact, Jack. Screwed is where we are today.

Well, you're right it does. She and her husband have five kids. I guess my parents weren't "right" either. I have 4 siblings. Foster kids can be in your care for very short amounts of time (as many of them were with the Bachman's) or in some situations for over a year. It's a huge committment of unimaginable risk (we've seriously looked into it). I believe they were approved for "up to 3 children at a time". I can decry the woman for shortcomings but caring for kids in foster care sure isn't one of them.

god help us....

You know RP has finally lost it when even derby says he's not fit to be POTUS.

You guys would complain about Mother Teresa's nipples.

Mental.... image....

Need..... brain-bleach....

Here, this will clean up that brain image for ya

==========

Ain't that the spot on truth?

Wouldn't bother me if everytime I looked at her and she looked at the camera she gave me the heeby jeebies for some reason. Like something going on in there nobody knows about.

Her "foster kids" were actually teenage girls with "eating disorders" for which she and her husband were richly rewarded by the federal government. That was her husbands livelyhood.

Figures a former Internal Extortion Service prosecutor would figure out how to milk the system AND sound all righteous about it, too.

It's hard for me to believe that she would even try.

Does it really matter what any of the candidates say? It's going to be an "against the half breed" vote for me, so it doesn't matter if Ronald McDonald gets the Rep nomination.

It might matter some...Romney would just fall right into Obama's shoes, and Ron Paul would just stand there and spit at everyone for a couple of years.

Or like most of us who don't live in an early primary state by the time it gets to be my turn to vote in the primary only one candidate will still be in the running.

Why would it matter at all who gets the Rep nomination? You can't possibly be saying you'll vote for the half breed instead of Romney.

You're assuming there'd be much, if any, difference between those two.

Painful to listen to. Form over substance, in pithy soundbites.

Umm, they are the three that shoved in state tuition up Perry's ass and received loud ovation while doing so.

Oh OK, maybe then we ought to just vote in Obama's Dream Act, it ain't no big thing..sheeet, let's give em all amnesty. I see by you defending the indefensible, you must be a Perry fan.

Perry said it was a states issue; then Texas must be paying tuition and not the federal gov. If thats the case, let Texas spend as they wish.

Neither is someone who makes an inane comment like that.

Never pretended to be "right" not running for president either.

Read my other comment where you look at her in the eyes and something is going on in there nobody knows about. If someone else had that many foster kids it really wouldn't bother me.

Something about her.

I realise she won the straw poll in Iowa earlier but I never really followed it till this year. I didn't realise it cost $30 to get a ticket to even vote in the thing and that candidates pay for them and hand them out. Sounds kind of like a funky way to choose someone in a poll.

I looked it up since several people said I was way off base commenting on it.

She actually recieved the money from the state, not the federal government. But it did say they were all teenage girls who were enrolled in a program at the University of Minn. for eating disorders.

I didn't know anyone got paid to keep foster kids. I thought you just kept them once the state OK'd you to and you paid for it out of your own pocket.

Agreed about the Iowa straw poll, but that wasn't the discussion. There are a lot of intelligent people on the fire that make some goofy statements (general statement not aimed at you). Would love to see it totally limited to the issues and their position on each. Politically RP was DOA but he sealed the coffin when he came across as blaming us for 9-11. Santorum tries to take credit for a lot of things before it was "cool". Huntsman is a dem in RINO clothing. Cain has some good catch phrases but doesn't appear to have a lot of depth on issues. Romney has obamney care and is not a 2nd ammendment guy. Perry worries me with his stance on immigration (no fence, in state tuition for illegals) and did not have a good response to questions on these positions tonight. Newt is a no bs guy but he dug himself a hole he doesn't seem to be able to get out of. Michele said no to increasing the debt ceiling and stayed with it while most R's caved. She has been leading the charge against Obamacare and noted correctly that it can't be undone with an executive order as per Romney/Perry. She has a master's in tax law and the desire to change the code. Still think, even though not leading the pack, she is the best candidate. Of course that is just an opinion.

Immigration is not a States issue, if it were AZ would be in the clear. As it stands AZ took the action the feds refused to.

In regards to the Texas Dream Act, I don't believe for a minute that the majority of Texans support it, rather it's a case of pandering to the Mexican vote. It may be Texas's choice, but I don't remember this much understanding when California did the same, do you?

Unless someone else gets in the race I think it's down to Perry or Romney and it will come down to two things. Who can raise the most money and who can keep their foot out of their own mouth between now and the primary. That will be the defining factor in my opinion more than any policy issue between the two of them and between them and any other candidate. Put it into the category of "anyone but Obama" but don't stick your foot in your mouth to make yourself unelectable. As much as I hate it right now a whole lot of people are looking for anyone who is "electable" that isn't Obama and that is the biggest draw of any candidate regardless of any particular issue. Look how many times on this board people have said "I'm not a fan of XX candidate but I'll vote for him over Obama".

I'm not sure why Huntsman is even in the republican party and he probably doesn't know either.

Newt was dead before he got in regardless of what he actually says during the debate.

Bachmann is toast and doesn't know it yet. If she wants to get any traction at all she is going to have to fund her own network to get on TV apparently as she gets about zero national coverage unless it's a media outlet making fun of her. Even Perry as George Bush the 2nd gets more positive media coverage than she does nationally.

Ron Paul is toast and does know it but he wants his position heard. He does some serve purpose because he makes the other candidates talk about his issues more than if he wasn't in the debate.

I'd like to see a poll of people likely to vote if they have even heard of most of the people running outside of Perry and Romney. It's easy to sit here and disect candidates if you follow them but we know most people don't, especially when it comes down to people in the middle who always amaze me with their comments 2 days before an election they haven't made up their mind.

State tuition is a states right subject, immigration is a fed subject. You do see the difference?

And Texas ain't Kalifornia......

Amen, and actually a great point. Both coasts think that everybody should do things the way they do...and nothing could be worse.

Correct. People are getting spooled up about 2 different subjects here. But, then again moderates are easily confused......

So, why get insurance?......wait a minute, you're not serious?

If he doesn't pay then someone is going to negotiate a pay off......

Lost my morning coffee over that one! perfect! To even entertain this kook has a chance at this is about as delusional as Kusinich is on the other side. Bachman also has no chance. She's like an RP with hormones and a hubbie who's a bit on the light on the loafers side. And that voice! almost as shrill as Palin's.

Me too.. And then Michelle came back with a fore-hand winner..

You sure you didn't mean to type 'fool'??

Only if he's the one up against the Liar In Chief - even then I'll be holding my nose, like I had to do with McCain.. I just do NOT trust Perry one iota..

Everybody's known that since the day he started his run - well, except for the Paulbots like you mentioned.. I can't remember exactly what he got booed for last night, but that was a great indication of the direction his campaign is heading.

You may think so, but did you not notice the crowd reaction to her statement? A lot of applause there.. It had nothing to do with vaccines; it had EVERYTHING to do with gov't overreach and 'nanny-statism'...

Geez.. So all foster parents are on the gov't dole just to get gov't bux? Puhleeze.. I'm sure you'd all find a lot of fault with Mother Theresa too.. Any of you volunteer for the Big Brother program? Hmmm?

And there's virtually NONE...

Bro, the vaccine was 'optional'.....not the same as Obamacare, that's mandatory.

Come on!

Bob, this is classic.

Draft West & Rubio or Palin!

Yep... F the hippy generation (Romney/Perry/Paul/Ginny)... they've F'ed us long enough... hell even myself.

The Dems answer was Obama, you young guys need to look for a competator... I'll cast my vote.

Kent

Bear, the problem with that logic is that, in this case, what the state does has a big impact on the rest of the nation. By adding yet another incentive in the form of education benefits, Texas becomes a gateway to the rest of the country. In essence, Perry is rewarding people on a state level for breaking federal law. And then, he complains about the federal government for not doing their jobs. He's right about the federal government, but he's part of the problem. Sorry Perry fans, this issue is a big deal for me at least.

Every state I've ever heard of reimburses via generally a stipend, foster parents for expenses to help care for foster children. There is a dire LACK of foster parents around the country. If there were no reimbursements at all, I can only imagine how many less willing foster parents there would be.
If you look into it locally, to suggest anyone does it for "the money", simply shows a total lack of knowledge about either the amounts received or the cost of caring for children or both. Nathan, to hint that she's "weird" because of some vibe you sense from her is one thing and is a completely individual thing I can almost get. But to link it to her, and her husband's, and her entire family's willingness to help care for no more than 3 troubled teenage girls at a time, which are one of the MOST difficult demographics to place into foster care, is really beyond the pale.
This sort of reminds me of people that make up stuff about Obama. The man has a list a mile long of REAL things to criticize him over. Do we really need to make up more stuff? Criticize Bachman on policy stances, legislation she introduced you don't like or personal failings even. But seriously.... fostering kids is somehow a "negative"? I also heard once she helped an elderly woman cross the road! We've truly moved into a strange new world of politics.

It's worse for the states for the illegal to be unregistered and on the dole...on our wallets. With Texas,they are at least recognized in the system,paying taxes,legal citizenship bound and aren't a dole on society.

Folks best begin understanding the realities of those here for many years already and whom are contributing. It's more than easy to address a 20 million person problem from a keyboard.

We're not talking about tuition for YOUR children. We're talking about tuition for federal criminals. When it is used in that way, and becomes an incentive for people to break nationwide laws, the rest of us care.

It sounds like your opinion is that two wrongs make a right.

No,it's my opinion many aren't thinking it through.

Stan,
I'm not sure you get my point (or I've not stated it clearly). The scenario was a young healthy individual WHO COULD AFFORD to buy helath insurance but consciously CHOSE NOT TO and chose to spend his money on other things. Now you are suggesting... "Just wait until he's sick, treat him, and them bill him after the fact." That's insane to me. Plus what if he dies? Who pays for it then? Then almost nobody who is healthy would buy insurance. Just roll the dice. If they stay healthy, they win. If they get sick, they just get billed for the service and STILL don't pay or if they die so what? They got to keep all their insurance premium money while they were alive. What is the point of buying insurance?
The correct answer which RP actually 'tried' to say in a brief moment of clarity on his part is FREEDOM! He quickly jumbled it so to the half asleep I'm sure it sounded like Charlie Brown's teacher. That patient made a free choice, let him enjoy the benefits of his choice OR let someone else VOLUNTARILY pay for his service (like a church etc...) but to force the government (aka you and I) to pay for it is 100% morally and in every other way WRONG!

FWIW, I haven't carried insurance on myself in well over 10 years. Two minor surgeries during that time period, which I paid off (in full), and came out FAR ahead of paying over $200/month for a high deductible insurance plan that would have barely covered anything on either surgery.

Non-smoker, height and weight, BP, triglycerides, heart rate, etc., all at near ideal standards, and the best rate offered is over $200/month.

No thanks.

And NOBODY should have a problem with that. I believe most realize the benefit of a health savings account (regardless of how formal it is or who adminsters it). Now if you get cancer tomorrow and realize you could easily have $1,000,000+ to potentially 'save' or extend your life and you are either 1) willing and able to expend your personal assets to do that, or NOT able or willing to and you therefor die an otherwise premature death... but it is YOUR decision, then again, what is the problem? As long as you don't expect 'society' or the 'gubment' to bail you out of your medical expenses ... I say rock on!
The question Wolf asked was clearly designed to be able to say "Republicans would let a sick man die." It will and has already, worked.

Give this man a cigar!!

If I get cancer tomorrow, that's why I carry a very large life insurance policy on myself, with riders appropriate.

That, or there are quite a few charitable organizations and foundations set up to help folks out with such cases.

Consider just paying for catastrophic coverage.

I have looked; there isn't any offered in this area.

Exactly, but you are acknowledging that life insurance is for when you DIE. It is not to help you treat your cancer and/or potentially cure you. Again, I have no problem at all with your strategy. It's called freedom. Just don't (and I know you haven't suggested it) get a 'change of heart' should the unthinkable diagnosis occur and suddenly EXPECT others to bail you out. Really and truly personal responsibility is what separates the left from the right on almost every issue.

Not exactly. That life policy has some riders that could be used in the case of a serious or terminal diagnosis.

Either that will work, or there may be some charities that would assist, or at least I'll leave my wife and daughter fairly comfortable financially.

I guess it depends on where you are in life but I certainly would carry at least that and have two friends very recently, one with, one without. Both had very unexpected serious health issues. One is fine the other is fine (physically) but is financially ruined.

If it were offered in this area, I might consider it. It is not.

Even better. But again, you haven't sniffed at EXPECTATIONS. You have suggested some assumptions about charities that I personally would never assume but you have your eyes open and are making a FREE choice. Enjoy it while we still can.

And that's another thing, the fact consistent policies can't be offered across state lines makes a sum total of zero sense.

I've thought it through and he's standing on very weak ground. Most people only hear 'illegal aliens' and don't take into account the several conditions that must be met to qualify in Texas which does make it somewhat defensible which Perry tried to do. But turning a double serving of dog doo into a single serving is pretty hard to make taste good to those that would just as soon not have to eat it at all.
If Perry, with all that experience, can't make more consistent sound decisions or at LEAST defend them more deftly, he is definitely lacking in what presumably we'd all like in the POTUS. Having said that, I could not vote for McCain. At this stage I could and would still vote for Perry in a general election.

Huntsman is a dick, Romney is a poised stoic� tool, Paul needs a straight jacket, Perry I believe is from Texas? Did I get that right? I thought I heard him mention Texas once, or a zillion times? Perry, get some shades so I don't have to look at those crazy eyes. Every time someone is talking chit about you or you�re thinking super hard you pull your chin back and your eyeballs go full round like a cartoon character. If you�re trying to look like Ronald Reagan get some brill cream and control those crazy eyes.

Bachmann, jebus christ you know how to beat a dead horse don�t you? holy!! Make your point and quit while you can still come across sane and intelligent. And enough with the �I was a lone voice, the only fighter.� Christ almighty that chit gets old! I�ll tell you what you�re good at and that�s bragging about being the lone gladiator. Mohamed Ali talked a chitload of smack too but he got in the phuggin ring once in a while and backed it up. I want to like Bachmann but she�s got to talk specifics on policies and plans. Ride the horse till it�s dead if you must but stop whipping it after it starts to stink. And enough with the lone voice crap, stick to policies, plans, express your intentions without the �lone voice� hero crap.

Santorum and Cain, be careful with gimmicky platforms of simplicity (tax plans) 9-9-9 and zero tax on corporations, neat ideas but they sound like promises you can't keep. (read my lips, no new taxes).

I'd have to say Newt was the only one that didn't irritate me in the slightest.

If Cain didn't interject some humor I wouldn't have known he was there.

No doubt West and or Rubio would be a much better choice to me and for America. They would also clearly turn the field on it's collective head.
Still plenty of time but as of now I'll probably still vote for Cain in my state's primary assuming he's still in. Glad there are several more debates but I wish they'd have an actual DEBATE. And I really really really they'd have an actual debate between the eventual R nominee and Obama but that of course would never ever be agreed to by the president. I'd start calling for it NOW to have him on record as refusing for over a year.
Sadly I think we're waiting for several more years before we see West or Rubio on the national stage.

The illegal immigration problem has gone on for years and will continue to go on for years,in some fashion or another. In the meanwhile,Perry collects money for his state and the Feds from them and they aren't on my dime. Who's been missing out on that?

Really?

Not on your dime?

Really?

You 1) assume that they stay in Texas (look outside today at the landscaping crews up there...), and 2) assume that Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security funding from .gov isn't money extorted from you, too.

You're wrong on both counts.

It's dream act light, diet dream act, and I don't care for it either.

I'm focusing on Perry's comments since that was kind of the topic of the thread.The one's going to college,paying tuition,working and paying fed and state taxes are staying in Texas. Perry was speaking of them and those there doing so for 3 years or longer.

They are not on my dime....or yours. Further, Perry is collecting something rather than not doing or collecting anything while the country debates the issue for 20 years.

Perry seems to be saying while ya'll talk about it,were going to at least receive benefits in return during the meanwhile.

So many Republican nominees, and not a one qualified to be president.

YAWN!

my .02

IMO, there was no one on stage last night that could beat Obama.

As badly as the dems and moderates dislike the job Obama has done,

a guy calling social security a ponzi scheme (and I've said the same thing about it but it sounds like pandering when Perry does it) and a GOP candidate enacting mandatory health care before Obama won't get enough votes to carry.
Moderates won't take an opinion of "anyone but Obama", they'll take an opinion of "not another horseshit GOP candidate" given they already hate congress for refusing to compromise.

Perry is a punching bag with alot of baggage. Romney is just the defacto guy until someone better comes along (as witnessed by his declining in popularity everytime someone new enters the race). Neither can garner a passionate base that will stay excited about their idea of a presidency.

While I'm a hardcore RP guy, I know enough to admit that if he doesn't score big on a faux tea party debate, he isn't going to get another shot. His honesty is refreshing but the crowd last night isn't ready for conservatism that reduces the power of government.

You do see Perry is rewarding illegal aliens with in-state tuition? Same thing CA was widely criticized and mocked for on this very board. So when Kali does it it is liberals run amok, when Texas does it it is fine Texas conservatives exercising States rights?

You're losing credibility on this one, just like Perry.

Ron Paul is the only one on that stage last night that MAYBE couldn't beat obama right now.

Maybe Huntsman,as well. I'll be shocked if that screwball stays in any longer.

As a aside,in spite of the baggage and earlier campaign slips,analysts are saying Newt's stock is rising once again.

Well that all depends on how hard the "opt out" is. Opt out is a favorite tool of the liberal, they love to impose their beliefs on our school kids, and then offer the hard to obtain "opt out". What happened to parent responsibility?

You my friend are a Perry partisan, excusing much of what you have criticized in the past.

Well that all depends on how hard the "opt out" is.
============

Laffin'! Good grief,man!

Agreed, on the crazy scale he's next in line to paul.

But RP knocked it out of the park last night when he was one slip of the tongue away from saying "we had it coming" in regards to 9/11. You could tell he wanted to say it.

He burried himself last night.



He had a good night, I thought.

Ain't nothing funny about it. What do you think an opt out in CA entails? I have heard of some schools that insist parents must take a class to opt out their child from a program.

We were addressing Texas' opt-out and if one doesn't know what it actually entails,that one shouldn't be criticizing it,imo.

What Perry said about illegals last night " I don't care how you get here" is as close as a deal breaker for me. Romney has my vote at this point and I believe has the best chance to unseat Huessein, still early but I am pissed @ Perry.

Hmmmm..what has Mass done to lead the country on illegal immigration,again? I forgot.

Was that a debate? I thought it was a game show.

Obamacare?

ROmney Care?

Matter not to you?

BMT

Yep...RP isn't smarter than a 6th grader.

It was the "we don't care what your last name sounds like" not once, but I believe THREE times, that had me...
I thought him better than that.

It does, but illegal imigration is my number one priority. Just the way he worded it really ticked me off, I also think he would like to take it back.

And Rick Perry spent countless hours and funds researching the uterus/cervix's of 6th grade girls.

More than an open-border, open-door, prize-for-getting-your-kids-across policy.

Doesn't matter, if any school district makes a parent's choice like that it is wrong. What happened to all the "parent responsibility" advocates around here? You all have Limbaughitis, criticize what the democrats do, excuse it when a republican does the same. Criticize it when CA does it, excuse it when Texas does it.


What a bunch of hypocrites.

You're back-pedaling. Opt-outs are implemented to give notice and priority to parents.

OK, you go on defending what Perry himself said he handled wrong.

Romney last night on border security "of course you build a fence."

I believe I heard him say that, no?

Um....

A parent cannot opt out of the other vaccinations required for a kid to enroll in a public school. Anywhere.

The opt out was simply signing a form saying "I don't want my daughter vaccinated". That was it. Simple.

And, Perry's recanted the position, said he went about it wrong, that it should have been a voluntary opt-in, and the science still supports the vaccinations (which it does).

The Gardasil issue isn't one that casts any doubts on voting for Perry.

The illegal immigration/door-prize-free-tuition for getting your kids wet across the border does cast a LOT of doubt about him.

His position on immigration IS treasonous, IMHO.

=============

Yes,but apples and oranges,Dave. The fence is one thing,20+ mil in the country already is the other real issue. What's a fence going to do for that crowd?

Left out of "in state tuition for the kids of illegals" is the citizenship thing.

Many are Anchor Babies. US citizens under that "Constitution" thingy the Tea Partiers love.

Many around here gloss over it like the left glosses over the second amendment.

BMT

I'll give Perry credit for being somewhat politically fearless.

Mandatory vaccinations of ANY kind are an invasive .gov affair. My kids are vaccinated, but we researched and micro-managed how and when they got them. At one point we had to declare ourselves religiously opposed in order for one of them to be allowed in school that year.

Vaccinations are largely for the collective (there's that word) good and the science behind the long-term effects is far from clear, as is the effect on a person's immune system of hitting it that, hard that young. There's a school of thought the the immune system has a finite, not infinite, ability to respond... and that this is compounded if you "use a bunch up" very early in life.

I don't know about all that, but if you look closely at all the vaccines, clearly at least some of them have no reason (other than convenience for the doctor) to be administered in batches, to such young babies/children.

I would find mandatory HPV vaccination onerous. On the other hand, my daughters have both had it, voluntarily.

Damned door prize for popping out a kid on the right side of the border.

Build a f'kin' fence.

I don't know if a fence helps. I wont pretend to know, I'm on the other border and it would be offensive to the southern border folks for me to act like I know what they deal with.

20 million sounds like chicken feed compared to the billions obama has and continues to toss into the wind. He calls it "stimulous"

Take all that money and toss it at the border, build the great wall of china and man it. At least then when all the "stimulous" is gone you have something you can see and touch.

I think we could consider a border fence a "shovel ready" job. Bottom line, there is no will on either side to actually solve this problem.

Build a no mans land kill anything inside it.

what he said he did wrong was using an executive order instead of having the legislature pass it, which it would have overwhelmingly, not being populated with vaccine freaks.

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=szHkBgXnS38[/video]

RP, blaming the U.S., quoting and supporting UBL, for 9/11.

THAT? is a POTUS candidate?

Anyone that even thinks about supporting that DSMFer not only needs their head examined; they need their ass kicked.

Because someone made it mandatory, now I don't have to put up with Measles, Polio or Smallpox....

Maybe not. Got and pics?

Ron Paul gets my vote. Those that voted Bush in for a second term should shut the [bleep] up.

You, are an idiot.

Category: HPV � Texas � public health � vaccines
Posted on: April 28, 2007 9:40 AM, by Nick Anthis

On Monday, 23 April, the Texas Senate voted 30-1 in favor of its version of HB1089, a bill overturning Rick Perry's February executive order mandating that all girls entering the sixth grade receive the HPV (human papilloma virus) vaccine Gardasil. On Wednesday, 25 April, the Texas House approved the Senate version of the bill by a 135-2 vote. On Thursday, 26 April, the bill was sent to Governor Rick Perry, who has ten days to sign the bill into law, veto the bill, or do neither (which would have the same effect as signing the bill). Even if Perry vetoes the bill, both the House and the Senate have the necessary 2/3 majority votes to override his veto.

Your a pompous ass, and not as smart as you think.

Smarter than a DSMFer supporting a kook that says we're to blame for 9/11, that thinks NOW he's a supporter of Reagan (when he dropped out of the (R) party because of Reagan), and simply can't pull his head out of his own ass long enough to realize he's a bumbling, stupid, bitter old man.

Whoa there chili ddiicckk, you sound a little bitter there yourself. Now get back to your cubicle, you got lots of bills to pay.

Jealous, when facts are used, ain'tcha?

So the assertion that the objection to the mandatory vaccination was purely procedural, is flawed.


USA Today

Keep supporting someone who thinks 9/11 not only was our fault, but was an inside job:

Am I the only one who finds all these "career politicians" extremely distasteful?
It's the same old business as usual.
I see the guardisil order Perry signed as a symptom of our current political climate. Lining someones pocket because you have the political clout to do so.

No politican of either party would dare to expose another on graft or paybacks owed to lobbyists because they all have their fingers in the jelly jar.

None of the current nominees want anything to do with a discourse on political contributions and the paybacks that resulted from same. Until that stink becomes just a memory erased from a candidates resume we're gonna go down as a nation governed into oblivion by the good ole boy,s club.

to win an election and get swing states, you have to pull in moderates and independents. While the hardcore GOP folks will pull the lever for whatever sack of [bleep] ultimately gets the nomination, what we saw in the last election is that the big stick diplomacy, tax break for the wealthy, you got us into this mess RINO candidate isn't going to pull it off.

Even the tea party voters don't live in a vacuum, the common bond between them is wanting a fiscally responsible government but whatever candidate gets the nod, if he/she doesn't appeal to their hot button issues, they just won't vote.

While you may see a large number of "anyone but Obama" voters because of the circles you live in, those people voted for McCain in the last election - and we see how that worked. Has Obama screwed up enough to push the rest of the fence sitters back to the GOP?

IMO, not with the field I saw last night.

I would love to see this guy shake up the FR and take back the national credit card that was stolen by corporate and foreign interests.

America first!

All this "debate" and it's going to come down to a handful of states (some of which may/may not even vote republican in the general election) and then the rest of us will step in line and vote for whoever is left on the ballot against Obama.

In all honesty that's why I haven't watched much of the debates or followed many of the candidates except for 1 or 2 who scare the crap out of me. If you don't live in one of those early states it won't even matter unless you are trying to decide who to send money to in an effort to influence it before it gets to your state.

I'd like to think it would work out where everyone's vote in the primary would matter but it's just reality that it doesn't work out that way. Basically it's going to come down to a vote for Obama or a vote against Obama.

No, it'll be a vote for Obama or Obama lite.

OK, here is your easy opt-out..I live in the world of mandates and opt-outs



Governor Perry is misleading legislators and families in Texas by claiming that they will be able to �opt-out� of having their 6th grade daughter vaccinated with the vaccine for the sexually transmitted virus HPV. For many families currently, the exemption isn�t worth the piece of paper it is printed on. Besides the simple fact that parents should not have to get permission from the state to make informed consent medical decisions for their own children, here are four reasons why �opting-out� of sate mandated vaccines doesn�t work for many families in Texas:

�Opt-out� or Conscientious Exemption to Vaccination Process is a Bureaucratic Nightmare
To get the exemption form, parents must first submit a written form to State Health Department in Austin which forces the disclosure of the child�s full name, birthdate, and mailing address. The Health Department takes those written requests and creates yet another form on which they print the child�s same personal information that the parent had to send to health department, and the Health Department sometimes takes weeks to mail out these forms inevitably disrupting the child�s school attendance. The Health Department only sends the forms by U.S. mail, and once the parent receives the forms, they must be notarized within 90 days of submitting them and then repeatedly resubmitted every 2 years even though there is no expiration set in statute. [1] Because the Health Department further eroded parental rights by publishing more rules getting rid of provisional enrolment for exemptions, (families used to have 30 days at the beginning of school to get their paperwork in), now schools participate in aggressive misleading education campaigns touting �no shots � no school� while not informing families of the exemption or the instructions how to obtain it.

Private Schools Deny Admission
The Texas attorney general issued an opinion in April of 2006, ga0420, that states that private schools do not have to accept the conscience exemption to vaccination in Texas Law[2], and many private schools do not. For example, the Dallas Diocese for Catholic Schools policy number 5024 states, �Schools will comply with immunization requirements established by the Texas Catholic Conference Education Department. Conscientious objections/waivers are not accepted in schools of the Diocese.� [3] Every new vaccine mandate causes more children with valid legal exemptions to be denied their private school education.

Doctors Refuse Medical Care
Even though you may be able to get a piece of paper from the state health department affirming your right to refuse state mandated vaccines for your child, just try and find a doctor who will honor it! According to a recent study published in the Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, 39% of pediatricians surveyed said they would throw kids out of practices who are not vaccinated. [4] PROVE has documented this rampant problem of doctors dismissing families utilizing a vaccine exemption in Texas to the legislature in previous sessions. Please review our report entitled �The Erosion of Public Trust & Informed Consent through Immunization Harassment, Discrimination and Coercion� prepared for the House Public Health Committee in 2005. [5]

Insurance Rates Rise and Accessibility Affected
Responsible parents who have secured health care coverage for their children will be forced to pay higher insurance rates whether they want the HPV vaccine or not. Even if you �opt-out� of the HPV vaccine mandate for Gardasil by Merck by securing a conscientious exemption waiver, there is no way for Texas parents to �opt-out� of the corresponding rise in their insurance premiums. � 1367.053. (a) (2) of the Insurance Code REQUIRES that any vaccine required be law must be covered by insurance. [6] This first-dollar coverage requirement results in corresponding direct hiking of insurance premiums to meet costs, and for a vaccine as expensive as this one, an HPV vaccine mandate risks putting premiums for basic health care coverage out of reach financially for even more Texas families. Additionally, we have received complaints from families where insurance companies are harassing parents with letters and discriminating on coverage based on whether or not the child has had all their state mandated vaccines.

[1] http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/immunize/school/school_exclusion.shtm
[2] http://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions/GA/GA0420.pdf
[3] Policy Handbook for Schools, July 6, 2006, Policy 5024.
[4] WebMD, �Refuse Vaccine, Get �Fired� by Pediatrician?� by Daniel Denoon, October 3, 2005.
[5] http://www.vaccineinfo.net/harassment/report.pdf
[6] http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/IN/content/htm/in.008.00.001367.00.htm#1367.053.00

You know it's almost like no candidate is perfect. Imagine that. So let's eat them ALL as the press is instructing us to do and have O waltz in for another 4 more years so we can see the end of this sad story!

Orrr.... how about we concentrate on the candidate who has the most to offer to fix the current problems we face and will do the most to make some fairly significant and dramatic course corrections (which will NOT be popular for the masses) and realize there is still a very powerful legislative branch to balance any fears you have.

I submit the actions of the TX legislature quoted above as evidence.

Each candidate has pluses and minuses. If one minus cancel out every plus a candidate has, then you are 1) not realistic and 2) fooling yourself about your own 'perfect' candidate.
And no, I did NOT vote for McCain as he was a pile that was too large and smelly (and my state was a lock anyway). Thankfully I don't think we'll have another McCain in the general this go around.

I would have no problem voting for a Tea party newbie for pres.

New blood from top to bottom is the answer.

If Perry loses the votes of all the people who don't want their daughters protected from a preventable form of cancer, I don't think that will hurt him much.

on the merits of the vaccine...here's what MD Anderson...probably the best cancer hospital in the world....says about it:
http://www.texastribune.org/texas-p...-president-opposing-hpv-vaccine-unethic/

Those who have some issue with process, I doubt will be voting on the basis of that.

And Bachman should have quit while she was ahead instead of making the idiotic statement about Gardisil and mental retardation......for which she is being horselaughed all over the internet today.

She was fading fast into the also rans and had to do something showy to get back in the top tier.....not sure she made it. She has to knock down Perry....those are her people he took.

Here's one that ain't, Ron Paul lost my support for President

It's a real issue not to be lightly dismissed. But to also dismiss the REAL outcome (over turned by the legislature) is not being intellectually honest. I'll give him this, he said it was a mistake. Not sure the last time I heard a politician say that. He should have just shut up after that instead of repeatedly trying to justify it as some higher than thou calling to "protect the cheeeeeldren." The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The guy (RP) was so close to coming out and thanking the terrorists for 9/11.... seriously, he's that freaking batchit crazy.

I didn't understand until I watched last night and listened to him, yep, nucking futts!!

I have zero time for any of his anti American rantings. If he loves al queda that much he should go live with them for a while so he can see how wonderful they really are.

I seriously wish he would.

Some of the RP cool aid drinkers are good folks and I resent him for misguiding them.

I never understood the RP bashers here on the campfire until last night, now I'm locking step with the Paul bashers.

true dat....but in the case it's pretty much a case of....the road to your daughter's getting a preventable cancer is paved with stupid.

I didn't need the state to suggest it because I have...like...a real doctor for my daughter who give this shot routinely. I would hate to have to explain to an adult daughter dying of cancer that I "opted out".

Paul and Huntsman should do the right thing and bow out. Anything further would be more theft from those who might have contributed to their campaigns.

It's going to be a two man race only before the first primary. The folks who wish to be taken seriously should focus their thoughts,opinions and crticisms towards which of these two are the best,most qualified candidate. Anything other than that is fantasy,theory and frivolity.

How is this any different than 2008-2004-2000 etc. I know obama and clinton had a lovefest going on(not). This is the way U.S. politicians do it.

Paul = crazy idiot

Huntsman = angry idiot

I am not a Paul looney, but some of you are acting like Paul said that the 9-11 attacks were justified. He said that U.S. empire building has contributed to other countries hating the U.S. Tis true. I wish he had been more articulate. RP is too ideological and not politically savvy. But not everything he says is crazy, but it sounds so. We are just used to hearing half truths and having cherries on top of all things uncomfortable, so 200 proof truth is a bit strong for the tastes of most. His foreign policy is over the top, FTMP. His domestic and monetary ideas are bullseye, FTMP.

We had something strange happen in MN a few years back. People were sick and tired of political business as usual.

So the people sent a message, by electing jesse ventura...

I do not support ron paul one bit, and the only person I can think of that would do worse is already in the freaking white house!!

Ragrding Perry's migration blunder last night....I would bet that someone advising Perry has suggested that he not back off of his "endorsement" of this free tuition silliness. Contrast his stance last night on this versus the innoculation issue. He was quick to say he was wrong on the Guardasil, and nothing of the sort on free tuition for illegals. The "no matter how they got here" stuff sounds rehearsed and if we hear it into the future, I feel like I'm right. I think he is clearly already jockeying for the Latino vote in the general. DO I agree with his principle...ummm..nooooooo! Do I think his posturing might win a bunch of Latino votes and prove politically beneficial????? Prolly. I'll have to hold my nose if need be.

Oh I don't think it will hurt him at all, if he is the other name on the ballot, he'll get my chad. I do believe however it shows along with his Texas Dream Act", that there is a strong possibility we would be electing another "compassionate conservative", unlike Bachman who more reflects the views on this board right here.

I believe the issue was the gov't getting into business that is not their own, NOT cancer vacination. The merits of the vacine are quite beside the point, and it is the apparent lack of understanding of this dynamic on the part of Perry that is most problematic in my mind and to most who love liberty. I don't need the gov't telling me what to do whether it is a flu vacine from the immaculate one or a cancer vacine from the slick Texan.

As important as the mandate issue is, what will stick to Perry is the �Crony Capitalism� and business as usual you scratch my back and I will scratch yours.

I don�t want Perry doing in Washington what he has always done in Texas.

National Institute for Money in State Politics:
Among gubernatorial candidates who received contributions from Merck, Perry was second only to former California Gov. Gray Davis, who received $28,000.
Since the 2000 election cycle, the drug company has contributed $2.46 million to state-level candidates and party committees, doling their money out almost equally to both parties.
Democratic committees received just over $1 million and Republicans $1.4 million. Individuals employed by Merck gave an additional $2.5 million to state-level politics. Merck has helped finance races in forty states since the 2000 election cycle, when the Institute began collecting contribution data in all 50 states. Merck has focused intently on its home base, New Jersey, as well as giving in Florida, California and Pennsylvania. Combined, these four states have received more than $1 million from Merck, or 44 percent of the company�s total
contributions.
�At $360 for the three-shot Gardisal regimen, Merck could generate billions in sales if it is successful in its efforts to persuade the states to require the use of the vaccine.
MERCK CONTRIBUTIONS TO STATE POLITICS, 2000-2006
CYCLE TOTAL
2000 $550,894
2002 $764,126
2004 $641,082
2006* $504,250
TOTAL $2,460,352
* 2006 data collection is ongoing; totals may increase.
MERCK CONTRIBUTIONS BY STATE, 2000-2006*
STATE AMOUNT
New Jersey $317,600
Florida $256,000
California $251,439
Pennsylvania $249,775
Texas $158,143
Virginia $135,750
New York $118,025
Illinois $96,925
Ohio $93,570
Georgia $85,807
Missouri $57,500
West Virginia $52,250
North Carolina $48,000
Washington $47,850
Kansas $47,753
Arkansas $44,390
Louisiana $40,450
Kentucky $40,225
Alabama $36,000
Mississippi $31,700
New Mexico $31,300
Nevada $27,750
Oregon $27,500
Oklahoma $25,600
South Carolina $24,150
Utah $21,250
Indiana $17,000
Idaho $16,150
Maryland $13,650
Iowa $8,550
South Dakota $8,200
Colorado $8,100
Connecticut $7,250
Vermont $6,100
North Dakota $3,250
Nebraska $2,550
Delaware $1,350
New Hampshire $800
Maine $600
Montana $100
TOTAL $2,460,352
Note: Alaska does not appear on this list. It was never a lobbying target for Merck.

It's sad to watch you flail like this. Just do me a favor,if you will. When SP announces her support for Perry,jump on the bandwagon.

unfortunaely, if you elect the sane half of him, the crazy half lives in the White House, too.

You mean her theocratic opposition to gays and womens rights? Wouldnt think there are any gay haters here, or folks who think that men are superior to women.

Dont get me wrong, I would vote for her over Barack, but I would hold my nose while doing so.

Hes got his hand in my pocket, she would put her hands on my personal morality. This isnt Iran

WildistillkindoflikeherbutapresidentsheaintAlaska ��2002-2011

That's sort of the point. You took responsibility for the care of your daughter as a PARENT should. The government should retract from the parenting business and we shouldn't have to "opt out" of anything. Measles/mumps etc..? Defensible as they are air communicable diseases. Cervical cancer? Not so much.

Let's pretend for a second your inflammatory statements about her are correct. What EXACTLY could she do as POTUS to affect your sensibilities where it comes to homosexuals or women's rights?

G-LSU, read my response on the other thread about this.

And, because you don't want to think about your daughter having sex (which she will), it's different?

It still falls under the the 'reasonable person' standard, and a duty to protect.

Remember when Ford did some crude analysis that showed that lawsuits from the Pinto exploding would ultimately cost less than to have a mass recall?

That is the feeling I get with Perry's positions.

Like every position is calculated for maximum party support, and he has enough varied positions that most people have something to like which offsets the position they vehemently dislike.

I think Perry's game plan is to have people say "well I don't agree with him on everything but I do with the one thing that is important to me" - and that one thing may be 5 different things among various voters.

Probably not a hell of a lot...which is why I look askance at these politicos pandering to the folks who get all worked up over how folks play hide the sausage.

Its hard to be steeped in reality...you have the left picking your pockets and the right peering into your bedroom.

I dont push my personal morality on anyone else, and I dont like it being pushed on me.

WildandletsnotevengettothesocalledlibertariansAlaska ��2002-2011

Oh GOD, another "empire builder" kook. Empire building is profitable (ask the Brits), NATIONBUILDING which is what we do, SUCKS. Either way RP's delusional when it comes to foreign policy.

Isnt that the way all politicans operate?

WildithinksoAlaska ��2002-2011

and by the time she's an adult, the vaccine no longer prevents the disease. either you do it when they're little, or you're choosing to expose them. no-brainer.

Is this to me? I don't have a daughter and don't think I ever implied the likelihood of teenagers having sex (I was a teenager once) has anything at all to do with how right or wrong it is to have THE STATE mandate the injections. If not directed at me... sorry.

Exactly. The right 'peering into your bedroom' might be annoying, but it affects you in absolutely ZERO ways. The right picking your pocket, is in fact a real affect.
By the way, I'm one of those right wing nut jobs. What I think is 'morally right' and what I would as POTUS try and have the government enforce by power are not necessarily related on many topics. The left has proven time and time again to not exercise such a delineation.

So how is that going to work?

What with SP jumping on Perry�s Crony Capitalism record for the last two weeks like a duck on a June bug? Sarah ain�t making many points in the Perry camp.

Palin introduced the Crony Capitalism phrase, that everyone is using now, in her speech in Indianola, Iowa about all the RINOs in general and certain Governors who want to be President in particular.

Last night on Greta, Sarah put the crosshairs on Perry in her critique of the GOP candidates and how they did in the Tea Party debate on CNN.

"Michelle Bachmann pointed out that Governor Perry's former chief of staff who then went to work for a drug company who made the drug that would be required of the Texan government to mandate that our young daughters would have to be inoculated against a potential disease from this company that his former chief of staff was lobbying for. That is crony capitalism. That's part of the problem we have in this country. People are afraid, even within our own party to call one another out on that. True reform and fighting the corruption and fighting the crony capitalism is a tough thing to do within your own party. You have to go up against the big guns. And they will try to destroy you, when you call them out on the mistakes that they have made. Believe me I know that. I have the bumps and bruises to prove it, because that's what I've been doing the last 20 years, local, state then on the VP trail, different levels of government, calling out the corruption in government. Michelle Bachmann tried to make that point tonight,"


This is just like the good old days in Alaska when Palin tore into the GOP establishment and COB Corrupt Old Bastards as much or more than the Dems.

No wonder the RINOs are trying as hard as the Dems to Stop Palin Now.

I'm curious, why would somebody who has little faith in the competency of government, suddenly have faith in a vaccination they tell you is good to go?

The historical record is replete with BOTH sides interfering with liberty. Never play holier than thou.

WildijustwanttobeleftaloneAlaska ��2002-2011

Pretty sure all of these "dream acts" have to do with illegal aliens, those who were brought here illegally as young children.

Someone who was born here to illegal parents is currently considered a full citizen, entitled to in-state tuition , Pell Grants and everything else.

Is that the point you were making?

Sycamore

5 pages later, and nothing but crickets.

Barkoff, I'll send you $5 if he comes back and says he was wrong! My money is safe!



Sycamore

Doesn't matter, Newt will be the contenda.

There's a lot of him to like! Hope he doesn't get stuck in the tub!

Sycamore

One thing is for certain, your boy Bammy is going down

Sposen it would of happened by now if were gonna.

The Republicans are going to have to pull out all the stops to lose to Obama this time. I thought they outdid themselves last time, but they will have to top that effort.

I have to admit, the Dems did not make it easy for the Republicans to lose last time, they let the most hated woman in America run against an unknown African-American man. Then they let the primary go on two months too long.

The only thing more amazing than this race to the bottom, is that most voters in America appear to think that salvation lies in either of these two parties.

Sycamore

After watching the whole debate, I think Romney and Perry took a step down. They came across like a couple kids arguing on the Campfire Seriously though, if the Romney folks haven't broken the code yet, he is NEVER going to live RomneyCare down. They ask him the question in every debate and his answer still sucks. If he had just said about 6 months ago, "I made a mistake and I want to guarantee that it never happens nationwide", he'd be the clear front runner right now. And despite the comments here, Perry gave immigration criminals benefits. He's part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Even though he has baggage, Newt has performed well in every debate so far. And I cannot think of a better man to go head to head with Obama in a war of words. I would PAY to see that debate.

Off in the background, regardless of the lower poll numbers, old Herman is getting more comfortable with the topics and has been improving steadily imo.

Up...just for grins.

I expected it to be "steelhead"

I'm flattered.