Short question,..

If America doesn't pull out of its spending/debt situation, what's the prognosis?

By that, I mean, what will happen, in your opinion?

I can see the crash coming,...and as far as the monetary situation is concerned, that's easy enough to envision.

But there's several scenarios which a person can interpolate upon concerning the post crash circumstances.

I'll tell ya straight up,...I have no idea.

I may or may not post again in this thread,..we'll see how it goes.

I just want to see what others have to say on the matter.

I'll be sitting here reading.

IMO it will look a lot like the great depression. Some areas hit very hard, some will only see the devestation on TV. Several currencies in circulation, peso's, euro's, precious metals, towns issuing their own currency. Wont quite be post apocalyptic but will be hard on lots of people. Tent cities as far as the eye can see and lots and lots of people standing in line waiting for their daily goverment hand out.

well, i'm in perfect alignment with you, in that i don't have a single solitary idea either.

as has been stated for years, there's more to a livelihood on this earth than just pure money. we have physical assets in which we reside, as a country.

we have fisheries, metallurgy, agriculture, and forestry as a day to day reality. we have housing, roads, hospitals, schools, you name it. and we have the indomitable human spirit.

in addition, some have heaven, hell, purgatory, or reincarnation in some combination.

beyond that, the coming end to the age of oil is probably the best blessing humandkind has ever received. cheap oil has brought us a lot of good things, but has cost us a ton as well.

as we move further into the post-modern era we're beginning to realize something went oh so wrong. we're being given the opportunity to sort it all out, and begin again.

Geez Louise Bristoe, on a Monday ?


No idea either but I am of the opinion (if something on a large scale were to happen), the cleavage lines will be drawn with family, friends, and ethnic background... those with whom we have the most in common and comfortable with.

The transportion/supply lines or lack there of, will determine a lot of the rest.

I foresee a global depresion.
Economies all over getting hit.
America will stil be great.
We have great land, great resources and even greater people.

But all curency will soon be worth squat.

The only thing that will matter is raw material.
Oil, coal, iron.
And the ability to pound it into swords.

Inner city people are not going to see it coming and will not survive it long. They will kill each other off for basic wants. They will be like rats. Those living in rural areas will be isolated and fend for themselves for awhile but eventually they will be taken over and bled dry and forced to toil in the fields by the Marxists Army to make them grow spuds to feed the army. The people living in the bush will not have the nice things we have today, like INet and TV but will survive well and the quality of life will go up as the standard of living goes down.

Those in the Marxists Army will be on a mission to kill off their own folks to serve their masters. They will take orders and be proud to do so. It is about to get ugly but it can't continue like it is. There has to be a day of reckoning because of the way society has been living beyond its means.

Bush ninjas will die without their handouts.

Great question. Nobody knows. I can think of some sort of Biblical scenario. Some claim the Bible doesn't mention America in the end time prophecies, while others claim America is Mystery Babylon. Anybody with eyes to see can see things certainly falling into place for the bankers to make a play for a cashless society. The Devil has his own plans which his minions are not always privy to. The big boys, of course, want cashless so that all transactions can be monitored, recorded and tracked. Ultimately that means taxation but it also has other connotations. So you have possible religious scenarios mingling with and separate from secular scenarios.

There is no doubt that many multi national corporate types simply want America out of the way thinking we have too much freedom and wealth for a bunch of serfs. I think they also fear our people because in the past, we have risen up and spoilt the plans of what amounted to globalists, in the past.

Nobody likes hearing me speak on the War Between the States, but there are many parallels today. A President that nobody likes, laws that nobody likes, a minority that some elitists seem determined to assimilate into our society whether the majority likes it or not. Terrorism against our people, both here and abroad, some of it sponsored by our own government. Blatant ignoring by our government, of the law of the land, etc. All this powderkeg needs is a match or a spark. IMO a minority (radical abolitionists) used pretexts to start the WBTS and bring about radical social and economic change to our country, disenfranchising a whole large group of people. Anybody that doesn't think that sounds terribly and frighteningly like today's headlines, just isn't looking and listening. That or they are so scared they are ignoring blatant facts while clinging to comforting fictions rooted in a mythic past.

It will not be like the last depression. the people then were hard working dedicated , god fearing americans. the people now are take all you can get without doing any work at all and are mostly not americans.

so this time around you will be killed if you have anything of value such as food and it will be taken from you and fed to the sick, lame and lazy .

A lot will depend on whether white people will get off their collective asses, quit listening to lies and being craven cowards and [bleep] defend themselves. Giving women the vote was a terrible thing.

there was a reason that the mighty roman empire didn't conqurer scotland.

they built a wall in the north of England to wall off the scotti to prevent constant attacks.

wonder why they didn't engage the scotti?

later, they abandoned england, as being indefensible.

we're looking at abandoning post-modern America as being indefensible.

I have faith that real americans will pull this country out of the hole. I'm to young not to have some hope to hold on to I just hope I'm right.

I believe the governments of the world will simply let inflation take hold to make their collective debts manageable.



The end result will be what is always has been. The Goldman Sach's, JPM's of the world will control more wealth and power and the regular working guy will take it up the azz as his buying power shrinks and his standard of living goes to hell. Of course, 50 years from now, there will be a whole new set of idiots posting here telling a new set of dummies why we need to elect the 'Right' politicians to cure the problem.

Martial law, wage freezes, price controls... basically a war footing for the economy. Then, an attempted usurping of the constitution, most likely by the militant nutcase religious right, but certainly coming from the weenie left in the form of nationalization etc is a possibility too.

As evidenced right here on this forum, the religious right is primed and ready to roll and, IMHO, present the greatest "active" danger to America as we know it. The socialist-leaning left are a more passive, creeping threat.

I'll just vacation at the local lakes on the pontoon. There will be good fishing.

Marxist Armies roughshodding potato plantations ?

On the first page yet?

...oh hell, why not?

I think Hubert is close to the truth here. During The Depression there was still a strong work ethic in the vast majority of the populace that doesn't exist today. We have too many used to a free ride for too long and if they could be changed they would already have been changed for the most part.

Think Escape from LA.. without Kurt Russel..

If you are that young, then you are young enough to set yourself up good and not be dependant on others.

What is your definition of a "real american"? John Wayne was in the movies not in real life. Heros are created by others with a reason to fool you. Mostly to keep you faithful and keep you paying for their ways. Whether they be your boss or govt agent what they want most is to keep you working for them. The harder you work the better you can support them.

Like the British Empire and then the Soviet Union before - there will start to be a military exodus whereby troops will come home and foreign bases will be closed at an ever accelerating rate.

Defense will become less about the projection of influence around the world - and more about actually defending American soil from domestic threats..

Military spending will increase for special ops and drones - but we'll see far less in the way of foreign troop deployment.

If military spending goes from exceeding the next 17 countries combined, to perhaps only outspending the next two or three combined - economic prosperity will return.

Those who are self-reliant and have good survival skills will get by while all our politicians will just keep spending as if there never was a problem.

The problem with that is there ain't anyplace to escape to.

Don't know why you brought him up but John Wayne was a conservative who worked for a living so I guess he'd probably fit into my definition. Real Americans work for a living and care about the constitution and what this country was founded on.

Do you go out of your way to seem [bleep] in the head or are you really that way?

When you get done talking about this, lets go to Camelot and have a beer.

Alaska is a big country. Room for more if you are Man enough.

Our politicians are employees and their bosses plan to round up and take care of anybody that is self-reliant and has good survival skills. I hate to be negative, but don't kid yourself. I fear for my children and theirs.

oh, i agree. and therein lies the dilemma.

but, there's still time on the clock to work it all out, if we practice worthy birth control efforts. but, the window of opportunity is closing fast, no doubt.

i got plenty of ammo.

My Dad has a plaque in his living room signed by the former governor of your (supposed) state, thanking him for defending the territory. If it wasn't for guys like him, guys like you would be speaking Japanese, if at all.

I have no desire to move to Alaska. If anything, I'd like to move farther south, but the area of my Mom's nativity, Texas is already overrun, giving me little choice but Oklahoma as a destination. Oklahoma's physical and political climate is slightly more to my liking than Kansas', their treatment of armed and ready pharmacists, notwithstanding.

Hope they have Beck's.

Boy, conservative actors really get the Right's heels behind their ears. Wacky.



Y'all are picturing a natural-disaster type event. No... think more like what happens during MAN made disasters like big wars. The .gov will attempt to keep the infrastructure functioning with wage and price freezes, there will be a few very well-publicized executions of profiteers, etc.

lol,...

I would,...but I'm in my robe and settled in for the evening.

By the way,...Camelot East or West?

I spent a lot of time at Camelot East back when they called it Graham's Night Life.

I gave up Camelot West after the barmaid gave me the crabs.

,...long ago in a galaxy far away,...

Tell me about it.

Far as I can tell, the wife has neutralized most of my choices at the booth since we got married...

I wasn't asking for your agreement. Practicing birth control is what we and our fathers already did and only had the end result of our "leaders" allowing those who didn't to come here and do to our country what the scientists didn't want done by us.

Me too but I plan on shooting game and fur rather than what you have in store for you there in Texas. Remember the Alamo? How many million can you expect to hold off? You guys living in tight quarters with other people are in for one heck of a deal very soon. I pity you I must say.

There will be a lot of barter. Having some "Stuff" & basic skills, also more advanced practical skills, will help a lot.

Those who slurp at the teat (Both professional freeloaders and a portion of .gov employees) will become more dangerous. Much more dangerous.

It's hard to imagine something big not happening, at this point in our spiral. Nobody knows exactly how it will be, but it won't be good. That is a certainty.

I am fortunate to have a wife that thinks as I do politically, in the main, but the statement still stands. Blacks, Mexicans, White liberals...as groups or even a group, didn't elect Obama...women did.

Your father fought on the Aleutian Islands during WWII? That's very interesting, I'd love to hear about it some time, its not something you hear about very much as Europe and the Pacific are more main stream history. From the little I know about thoes battles it was tough going.

Wondered what the inspiration for this thread was...

My day and evening starts earlier than most.

At 4:30 PM, I've been up 12 hours.

What if someone was bright enough to figure out all the "money" never existed so just start over ? Too simple I know.

Who in their right mind would consider bringing a child into this? Insanity must run in their family. Better to let the mexicans starve than one of your own production.

This is where I have come to disagree. Who doesn't "slurp"? The Corporatists are the ones who desire less freedom for us. Those who don't work for one form of government or another, work for the Corporations. It is increasingly impossible to distinguish between corporate interests and the government, so the only difference is which side you complain about. OTOH, Unions are hated, but I've never had management that was much worth a damn. So the only difference there is who you toady to. Self-interest is and always has been the rule of the day. The difference in the past in America is that it was tempered by Christian ethics. Today there is an increasing lack of restraint combined with a hypocrisy so blatant that it is difficult to think the hypocrites even disbelieve their own lies.

I don't know what happens. I don't think it will be good for most of us alive right now. Our posterity might benefit, but I think it is going to be tough going for most of us.

I really see fascism in our future, only this time it will be more or less global. I almost feel as though Germany was just a test case for them to see what they could do if they tried. Just to see how far people would go and what they could accomplish.

After finding all that out, they've spent the last 65 years getting everything in place for the rest of us.

Probably helps to to have a russian bride giving you that come hither look. huh?

It is to paraphrase, "a darkness, greater than night", which permeates the land and which only the Light of the World can penetrate.

,...now I've lost the ability to ponder any serious matters and am deep in thought concerning Darlene,...a patron of Graham's Night Life back in the early 80's.

Bouffant peroxide blonde,...stiletto heels,...big t!ts,...round butt,...long shapely legs in tight jeans,...,...had an IQ of about 65 if she blew on her thumb and concentrated real hard.

,...I shoulda married her,....

When you no longer serve purpose to the marxists you will be dealt a severe blow. Time is now to choose what your next step will be. Volunteer to serve them, continue to work and feed them or become a Man and live your own life.

lol You or Watch4Bear may starve up there, I mean, depending upon which of you eats the other, but we have several months of sun down here and can grow a few crops and cattle. I may get overrun by the Commies, but I ain't likely to starve and neither are my kids.

,...the barmaid out to Camelot West was along the same line,...but as mentioned,..she had the crabs.

It was a major disappointment to learn that,...for many reasons.

Dunno, Cole, I guess I see more of a clear difference in producers and the takers who are eating (us) from both ends..

The trouble with the early eighties is they were about like the seventies, stupid nostalgic comedies aside. The other trouble is that I had too much restraint born from listening too hard to the old folks.

I only listened to my peter back then.

He had all kinds of bad advice.

I hear what you are saying and respect your thoughts. I also apologize somewhat for "picking on you" for lack of a better term. I see too many big talkers all parked at the local restaurant coffeeing in the morning while they rake in hundreds of thousands from the government they are bittching about. I also see too many supervisors promoted not by what they did or even who they were, but due to who they bent over for. In the words of a former railroader I used to work beside, commenting on the ascension of some of our more worthless colleagues to positions of authority above us, "it ain't who yuh know, it's who yuh blow".

Don't forget the move "The Postman". Most feared guy was a copier salesman before SHTF.

Turns out mine had some pretty good thoughts.

politics at every level of the political economy remains politics. that's who we are and it's how we are.

didn't get what you wanted? well, politic a little harder, you voter you.

It seems highly ironic, given that post by Bristoe, that the Peter Principle is very much a part of the current landscape.

to whom it may concern.

If you're one of those nitwits who believes the international bankers are behind the big push towards global governance then you know their currencies will never drop to zero.....

unless by design.

And they'll never all do it at the same time....

also be design.

It'll all go down as carefully and well thought out as they can muster, they and their many puppet governments all around the globe and their spokespersons, the talking heads, can make everyone believe.

A couple currencies here, a couple more there.
A couple pet governments here, a couple there.
Build 'em up and knock 'em down.
All "building" towards the final falls, and ulitmate take over.

Nothing without purpose.
Nothing by accident.
Wild cards not withstanding...

Oh.
And some death and destruction is not only desired, it's necessary.

Gotta be able to feed, clothe and shelter what's left...
not to mention keep them carefully and completely controlled.

Darlene, Rita, Stella, Trixie, Ruby, et all...

Why is it that parents don't give their daughters hooker-esque names anymore?

All you have to know is that IBM made the Holocaust possible and knowingly helped Hitler get the information he neeeded in exchange for huge profits.

My guess is not apocalyptic, but just kind of depressing.

The whole world will be affected, and the US perhaps less so than other countries. That's simply because the US is reasonably capable of sustaining itself.

The communications infrastructure will survive. Actual travel and transportation will be severely curtailed.

Thankfully, government will shrink because there won't be money to pay for it. The military will shrink by 1/3, Social Security retirement and Medicare will happen at 70 rather than 65. People who plan on retiring from civil service jobs will get an unpleasant surprise. Few people will really retire.

Gardening will become a lot more popular. Food costs will take up much more of the typical person's budget. Few homes will be built, because there won't be demand for them. The cost of heating a home will grow substantially. People will learn to wear sweaters and keep the house at 65 degrees in the winter.

Expensive medical treatments will be cost prohibitive. If what's wrong with you can't be fixed with inexpensive medicine and procedures, you're likely to have to live with it or perhaps die of it.

We'll have 10-20 years of stagnation, fewer possessions, and less leisure time. But we won't starve and the country won't collapse. People will learn to be more self-reliant, and the extended family will re-emerge as the dominant form of the family.

Practical skills like carpentry will be in more demand. Basically, if you want something, you'll be able to get it if you build it yourself.

I don't think that multiple firearms will be a particularly valuable asset. The lever action 30-30 was designed as the all-around meat getter, family protector, and livestock protector. Something simple like that, plus maybe a pump shotgun will be useful. But target shooting for recreation will probably be too expensive to enjoy very much.

Within living memory the "standard" home was essentially two rooms: A bedroom for mom and dad, a general living/kitchen area, and a loft for the kids to sleep in. We lived through that. It can be done again if we have to. And it's not all that unpleasant in a lot of ways.

Me personally I'll invest in tinfoil,BTW CF members won't get a discount.

it's finally time, as painful as it might be to admit, to estimate the annual production of goods from the Earth, and then some amount of mined goods such as gold, silver, uranium, coal and oil to be thrown into the mix.

annual production divided by human consumption. there's no majic in this mix, it's pure mathematics or arithmatic.

so, how does the distribution of annual production get distributed or allocated? does anyone know for sure?

I think I will invest in the industrial strength tinfoil Woody.


No matter what happens we will live pretty much as we do now as I am sure you and any other farming/ranching members will. Might not have much disposable income but we will eat and barter with out neighbors. Not such a bad outlook IMHO.

Thems without things to barter will try to take it. Lot of them will get dead for their effort.

Barter is good. Thinking toilet paper could be worth more than its weight in gold, or maybe at least worth a trick with Darlene.

America in bankruptcy will not be able to finance even a minor war.....we then could even be taken over by Mexico or Canada....

Your land....your house.....your business....anything you consider yours will then be up for grabs.....not by the government....but by anyone that thinks he's strong enough to take it and keep it....

The net result is anarchy!

You defeatist need to step back and take a long hard look at what you're saying.Far as I'm concerned we are still the greatest nation under God and by damn we didn't get here by whining about the bad times.So suck it up think positive and before you know it things will turn around again,how do I know this?.. because history repeats itself.So cheer up it ain't as bad as you think we will continue!

I have little doubt that the very same thing was uttered by many Romans at one time....

Have fun....you're watching the fall of the American empire.

Overall, I think it will look a lot like Baton Rouge after Hurricane Katrina. Normal life transposed with roving bands of criminals and DP's.

I don't know Bristoe but I'm not optimistic. I see so many negative trends regarding different aspects of life running concurrently, from the economy and all that is involved there to a coarser, cruder culture that seems to has lost it's collective conscious, to a society that has devalued life and killed off a whole generation by abortion (absolutely no different than the pagan groups and even the Israelites burning their infants in the red hot arms of the idol, Baal, 2500 years ago). Today, the idol is narcissism.

Anecdotally, being in the medical profession, the young folks I see and who are bearing children do not inspire me with confidence; that's not to say there are not exceptions. There always are, but fewer than before. I am not confident, as some seem to be, that the best of this country is yet to come. Au contra ire, I believe we've seen the best that will be. When I read Ambrose's D-Day and the great manufacturing effort that bolstered it and the sacrificial spirit that drove it, and the fabric of American life in the forties and fifties that fostered it, I doubt we could ever get close to that, as A NATION, again.

IMHO, all of this is the result of pushing God out of academia (the Ivy Leagues historically saw a Classic Education as one in which the Bible was studied), out of business, the town square, out of the courts, out of every aspect of public life. This is often defended and prosecuted with the ridiculous "separation of church and state mantra" which is wrong and stupid but we no longer have an informed (and moral) public that know our countries history, let alone other histories.

Could go on and on but tend to agree with CY in that there are sober, Biblical or theological implications to the trends we see and they are not pretty. One world currencies and /or governments with electronic record-keeping and transfers coupled with man's talent for evil could mean complete economic (therefore, total) control of people's and groups. When asked about end times, Jesus said to "know the seasons" or signs. You don't have to be a religious whacko, whatever that means, to think about this in theological terms. For Christians, though a battle or two are lost, we know the war has already been won, a reason to put your faith and trust in him.

the scotti in the northen end of britain beat the chit out of the roman empire slaves.

the scotti don't live under the rule of the roman azz holes. we fight back.

freedom is the answer, the cost is immaterial.

I foresee this thread going 12 pages or more.

How about this? Do you see in the medical profession a trend, through regulation, to shift your responsibility from the well being of the patient to that of the state?

Ask a CPA about what the IRS is doing. They are basically trying to get the CPA to be an arm of enforcement for them instead of representing his client.

That usurpation of the duties of the various professions is straight out of the 1930s NAZI handbook.

... er, repeated viewings of Bluto's rant scene from Animal House?

lolol




Good advice is for church goers and folks who stay at home counting their money.


Either way, not many colorful stories come from fellas who have listened to good advice all their life.

You guys keep buying these you'll make me rich

Here's Bill Whittle's take on things, helps to see some optimism.

http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=56

OOPS goto the link and on the right hand side select the video "Facing the Arithmetic.

Few years back the Nguyen that ran the water treatment facility at Quang Tri ran out of chlorine and since he figured he didn't need it in his water probably the GIs didn't really need it either. Only people that didn't get hit hard was the beer and liquor drinkers.

Couple days later our CO gave a speech similar to yours, this about 12 hours after they realized that there was no toilet paper available. This was in the middle of a very large operation involving about 3 squadrons of choppers, maybe 150 birds all told. The Colonel closed his speech by telling everyone that a C130 was comin' in from Saigon with a full load of TP.

Fitting, since the dollar may soon be the equivelant of azz wipe...

You can live in Alaska or the highlands of Scotland, freezing your cojones off and being "free" if you wish. The truth is there is great freedom to be had in places where there is nothing anybody wants and where nobody wants to go. Without risk there is no gain and with great risk there is the potential for not only great gain but the opposite. Walker was a great Scotsman but he died at the hand of the royal torturer to the cheers of the crowd whilst the inferior Bruce lived to toady another day due to his betrayls and England rolled right over all of Scotland they desired.

I love the smell of chlorine in the afternoon. It smells like...swimming pools.

Someday this peace will be over.

We never longed for anything except ammo,spare parts,new fatigues and useful stuff but by gosh we had enough beer and toilet paper for the entire globe...BTW hows come you dint come and get some of our beer??

WELL, Yeah, but it ain't over yet.

Che sar� sar�.

Bristoe has asked the question of "what happens". I'm as interested in people's thoughts about when and what type of event(s) will be the trigger.

Way back in the late 70's, we had Mr. Carter as President.
His approval ratings were about 34%.
We had American's held hostage in Iran. The country was in a mess. The world was not.
We had high interest rates and high inflation.
Some experts, Howard Ruff, Mel Tappan, and others were predicting socio-economic collapse and mass lawlessness. roving bands of bandits, etc.
Well, it didn't happen as they thought.
We elected Reagan.
He did not stop the slide, but he did slow it and we entered a period of prosperity and better times.

We have tough times ahead, for sure.
A huge difference is, today we have so many non americans, and so many more who depend on the government for their very existance, it will be a much more difficult turn around.
If, it can be turned around.

Got sidetracked there for a bit,..

I was more or less looking for opinions on how the rest of the world may respond to America's weakened status once the dollar has been inflated out of world currency status.

Bristoe, I think the rest are counting on us to get ours fixed so they can also.

Didn't read this whole string and don't intend to.

It's a damn good thing that most Americans don't think like the bunch of doom and gloomsters around here. Fortunately they are in a small, very small minority otherwise we would be in one hell of a mess.

Things are bad but have been worse, a lot worse. Instead of pissin and moaning position yourself to take advantage of the coming BOOM times.

Or, just go out and buy another Belchfire Magnum and 10,000 rounds of ammo, and more freeze dry, and powdered milk and go hunker down in some yurt in the woods.

Me? I'll be living large and enjoying life.

Refer back to my other post.
What you suggest won't happen until the wealth of the American people is tapped out.

If it was merely broken, it could be fixed. We're beyond that.
You don't fix nonexistent.

Lots of wealth in America yet to be pilfered.
So the game goes on.

This is a common observation shared by many of the smarter people I know....smarter than me, anyway.

What percentage of Americans can spade up a garden, shoot, skin and cook up a squirrel, catch and clean a fish, tune a gas engine, start a fire on a wet, windy day.....pull the trigger when it is time to defend our wives and daughters from the vermin of the street?

No, we had a much better skill set entering the last Great Depression. I doubt that being able to program in mySQL and Perl will have much utility...nor will milking the welfare system.

I just want to share one tangential thought. The Old Testament's standard for charity was to allow the receiver of the charity to pick one meal's worth of food from the field (wheat, grapes) and to consume it in the field. The receiver of the charity could not fill their pockets for later consumption.

I think there is a huge amount of wisdom in keeping the receivers of charity mindful that there are no guarantees that society will be in a position to render future charity. I think the one meal, eat it in the field approach helps them see the need to be responsible and not become dependent.

Well, good luck with that sir. Your state (notice, I didn't say all the people) is arguably leading the country in contemporary insanity. Aside from that I wouldn't put too much confidence in building a bigger barn.

I'm fairly sure folks can make the worse happen if they spend enough time with it.

We heard it was still warm.

have to agree if there's a depression type event it will be worse not just for the lack of work ethic being diminished by those days standards, plus back then the gov't "taking care of you" was a relatively new idea, and idea that is now thoroughly entrenched in the American psyche at large.

add to the fact that back then we were closer to the land, i.e. most people gardened to some degree, far more family farms, heck even most kids knew how to dress a chicken properly, today if it ain't on the grocery shelves, most folks are F'ed.

so I agree with some of the scenarios presented by some posters that it will be worse in the cities, far worse, violence will be much more common than in the last Depression.

even a small city like the one I live in will probably see those folks dependent upon grocery store shelves being stocked see a degree of violence we're not comfortable with at this point.


for those that have prepared adequately or have the resources to make it through in better fashion, they'll have to make some hard choices, whom to share their meager resources with, family and good friends that aren't as prepared, and those that are prepared to take from those that did prepare and how to defend against them.

the gov't will indeed respond (never waste a good crisis) there'll be lots of gov't cheese and supplies available, refugee type camps etc. right inside our own borders, and there will be a strong Nat'l guard presence (maybe even reg. military) to thwart looters and gangs of criminals that are out seeking to prey on those with any thing of value to their group, particularly food and weapons, those things that certainly belong in a prepared mindset. A word of caution if you will, it will difficult for gov't forces to tell the difference between armed bad guys and armed good guys, and there's a chance that they will see anyone armed as a bad thing, if nothing else for their personal safety.

look to what Steve NO went through in NO after Katrina, my guess is there will be similarities. It's probably the most recent example of how folks will behave and how gov't responds even though that was a natural vs. man made disaster as a Depression would be.

a Depression type event will differ that it will effect more of the country instead of just one pocket, so it's apt to be longer lasting in crisis mode, and supplies will be in shorter supply since many more folks will need them vs. Katrina.



I believe the other example to draw from is any hyperinflation experience in recent times, Argentina's seems to be the most well documented as it has been referenced here many times.


one can never predict the future with any certainty, myself included, if I could I'd have saved the 20K+ we've spent on house insurance these last couple of decades and bought something nice with those funds, instead I purchased house insurance and the damned house never has caught fire (thank you God btw for that) but still I buy the stuff year after year with no idea if we'll ever have a house fire.



but we can prepare for contingencies to the best of our means and predictive abilities. I've tried to do so and have to have a bit of faith that I've done what's in my power to do.


all the guys that say gold won't do you a bit of good in a SHTF scenario are 100% correct, you can't eat it, burn it, I guess if you put it in a sock you'd have a weapon of some sort, but I'd rather have a good ax handle than that. YMMV

gold is not to survive a SHTF, it's to prepare you to partake in the aftermath to rebuild a life. at least that's my opinion on gold.

all the things for survival that have been mentioned previously on this site have far more uses than gold in SHTF or the immediate aftermath. Ammo, weapons, food, toiletries etc.

life won't stop with a Depression type event, many people will be out of work, but many more will still be working (hopefully, if history is any indicator) there'll be blood in the streets, mass confusion and fear, much suffering, but the worst of it will indeed pass.

imo having a place that's hard to get to, that's well stocked to last a month or 4, means of communication and a support network will be key to getting past the worst of any SHTF scenario whether man made or natural that would precipitate similar type behavior as has been outlined.

when the worst has passed it will be time to pick up the pieces and see what type of life can be resumed, repaired or capitalized upon with the changes we are almost certain to see during an event of that magnitude.

I posted this after reading B.'s original question and checking out a few replies, now I'll go back and see what other folk's take on the subject is.

no matter how we prepare, it's dang near impossible to hit 100% coverage so to speak.

I'll be interested to see what the rest of you have to say on this subject.

That's the neat thing about life, none of us are getting out of it alive.

Reading the OP and coming directly here, I've got a few comments.

There are two directions. If Obama loses in Nov., then we have a chance to pull the economy out of the tailspin. Some economists think we have gone past the (tipping point). But we need principled GOP's who believe in a smaller government, less spending and fewer government agencies. The GOP must also add to their House members and hopefully win back the Senate.

In the interim, barring Mideast erupting, the best we can hope for is the "status quo". Many, including Mitt think and have said Obama is "over his head". I don't agree. I believe Obama knows exactly what he is doing. He with help and guidance from others is orchestrating the fall of the US economically and morally. This is his "transformational change". He views the Constitution as an impediment to his plans rather than a guide post.

If Obama wins in November, then yes, its just a matter of time.
A lameduck president, with no accountability will run boldly and swiftly. Even if the SCOTUS cuts down Obamacare, O will find a way around it. The Constitution is viewed as something to work around or ignore. If you think he has been bold now, you ain't seen nothing!! I can see significant usurpation of power in defiance of all things sacred. We can go right down the list of Amendments: 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th 9th, 10th and yes even the 22nd, Section 1.

If that were allowed to proceed, the only normal evolution(imho) will be an all out revolution some time years down the road.

As Ben Franklin said when asked: "We have given you a republic if you can keep it."

We're not doing someones "term paper" or thesis here, are we?

definitely not mine.

How will we fare vs. the rest of the world?

The last economy left standing after all the collapses will be relatively stronger than the others. In absolute terms, we will be worse off economically but in relative terms we may actually gain position.

Europe will collapse, with the exception of Germany and Great Britain. Asia will mostly collapse. Everybody fears China, but most fail to realize that although their nation is financially sound, their provinces are not and as a whole they are in a precarious position.

We'll adjust.

Bingo!
Concise and to the point.

Another right on observation, we will do what is needed to do, life is what you make it.

With respect to our monetary policy, we can't keep printing fiat money to pay off debt. We are spending 120% of GDP and borrowing 42 cents of every dollar from the Chinese. Keeping the Fed. Fund Rate at .25% til the end of 2014 as Bernanke has said tells investors and businesses that he doesn't see any business growth for 2 1/2 years! The recovery of the very important housing industry is many years off and will be pushed back further if these phony home mortgage re-financing allow to happen. They keep pushing back the day of reckoning.

But what may become the wildcard in Obama's future will be the price of gasoline. That will become very difficult to fight against. The tentacles of negative influence in the economy will snowball against the great O.

This is far too difficult to predict as there are so many factors at play. Economic collapses have a tendency to cause war to break out as demagogues tend to rise to the surface. If you want to argue the "last man standing" angle, that is fine.

You may live in loony land but I pretty much agree BW. I haven't decided if "O" is mis-guided or intention-guided but the result so far is one of the worst in our history in loss of inalienable rights and in flagrant law breaking. O-care will be a landmark law-breaker, anti-constitutional, health care limiting disaster if not repealed.

Aside from that, with a severe depression type scenario which might be the least serious one, I would think commodities such as drinking water, dry food goods, and fuel would be more valuable in some areas than cash. Try eating a gold nugget when the store shelves are empty.

And, yes, Steve NO's experience during Katrina was very sobering. It showed how quick a natural disaster, a nuke or dirty bomb, or political upheaval could thrust you into
Third world nation survival mode.

Other than being a terse one liner, it doesn't address the issue.

Perhaps Germaine to the topic(s) at hand is Pat Buchannons's recent book, Suicide of a Superpower; I just downloaded it.

heard that!

and I'm no doom and gloomer here, even though I've purchased some "insurance" over the years.


history does repeat or at least rhymes

I truly believe the WWII vets were our "greatest generation" and the reason "why" I believe they were so great and could face the horrors of combat and a large majority of them come back and build successful and productive lives is because they were forged in fire. The fire of hard times called the Depression in which they were raised.

we're a spoiled lot, me included and I've loved every minute of it! TV's in every room, more clothes and food than we know what to do with, so we've wasted both in abundance, cars and toys out the ying yang, vacations, my lord but we've lived a life of abundance!

we don't need most of those things, but we want them, it keeps the dream alive.


tough times make tough folks, easy times make easy folks


it's as simple as that

not every season can be growing season, whether plant life or the development of mankind or an economy

a purge of excess is good for the soul if not always for the body.


our poor people are fat and have cell phones.


likes some have said here, perhaps it will never come, hard times, caused by either natural or man made disaster. (talk about wearing the tinfoil, lmao)


it don't scare me, whatever comes, I'll do my best, tis all I know how to do with whatever resources I have to work with.

so while I have a bit of insurance, I may not have enough or I may be over insured, no way to tell for certain!

and all the insurance in the world don't do you a bit of good if you get run over by a Mac truck tomorrow.

I'm going to live large, till that's no longer a possibility, and then I'm just going to live however I can to the best of my ability, and then I'm gonna die, regardless of what I do in this world. OMG tell me it ain't so Scott we ain't really gonna die....are we?

I'm gonna hope if we do go through tough times ever that it will be good for those that survive whether through smarts, ingenuity, cunning, luck or preparedness or some combo of the above.

I'm not going to live my life in fear, I control what I can, and leave the rest in God's hands. May his will be done, but it would surprise me none if he decided we needed a good spanking!

Sure, now ya tell us... lol

Look, people, if this does spiral down in a couple years whether O is in or not, there is a very real chance of a breakdown in civil authority.
We all know that the "takers" are there to accept their federal handouts. If these can no longer be made, these "takers" can quickly turn on the government that feeds them. This could give rise to a backlash in society where some of the producers get pizzed off enough and dole out a little justice.
If you don't believe me, turn on the BBC an watch the street riots in Athens.

The most important thing to stave off these wild thoughts is to replace O with whoever the GOP nominee is.
That is why all these debates here that this one has this skeleton and that one did that, etc. etc. etc. is of no significance to me whatsoever.

You've all heard the clever statement: "Well I'm not holding my nose ever again". I said that too after the McCain debacle.
But this is different. This isn't your normal DFL party. This is anything that we have had in the past. Because of the serious consequences of "4 more", I will vote and campaign for whoever the nominee is.

I would rather "hold my nose" than continue to "grab my ankles" the rest of my life.

You do realize how often your posts begin like this?

he already knows everything there is to know


just ask him


and if he's the least bit uncertain, well he has his people! lmao



all those voices in his head! alla those people! and they're all his!

Oh brother!

Its quite evident that Jeff O suffers from a severe lack of world history understanding. Most likely aggravated by a life of public education where a) its not taught and b)its re-written. If he were to have any real grasp of reality he would know that its the liberal left who turns on the masses and evokes things like martial law and violence against its people.

Unfortunately, I believe you are mostly correct.

+1 Anyone who's been keeping his eyes open these last few decades will be amazed to pick up a copy of an unabridged edition of Gibbon's Decline and Fall and just start reading. In our present contexts, it's a real page turner.

Absolutely.

Excellent book. Chock full of truth you won't hear elsewhere.

You don't get it. The establishment of both major parties are on the same team, and answer to the same bosses, i.e., the banks. They're calling the shots. Have been for a very long time.

My opinion is that an interpolation is a fit between known data points. An extrapolation is a projection into the future based upon present and past data points.

No need to thank me for my utterly pedantic contribution. I already have a good buzz on.

absolutely correct

Nobody else does either.

That works too.

At present there's quite a few known data points which can be used for a bit of interpolation.

Not nearly to the degree you think. You'd rather have another four (which will be infinitely more operatively) of O? It's no contest in favor of the RP candidate--read that as including about anybody.

People put too much emphasis on the office of the President.

This government has grown enormous and I doubt that continuity exists even within its many divisions.

It's a multi-headed monster that no one man or even an administration can control.

The monster existed before the Obama administration and it will exist after the Obama administration,...and it'll take a dedicated President in*deed* to bring it under control.

With the exception of Ron Paul, no candidate wants to challenge the monster.

In fact, they're planning on feeding it and making it even more large and powerful.

again, absolutely correct

No. Please state time and quote all such posts.

Maybe if it is Fed enough it will blow up on its own.

[size:14pt][/size]

Perhaps so, but he's--the president-- the point man of the party, the owner of the Bully Pulpit who won as a populist claiming "hope and change" for the people without telling what that meant. But never mind, he's the black, elegant, Harvard lawyer, politically correct icon, giving the PC media (who didn't [dare] vet him) shivers down their legs when he speaks in his honeyed, baritone voice. Yet each time he speaks he contradicts himself or the truth--again and again. Look at his record or "anti-record" in the three and a half years he's occupied the office. Tell me "the man" in the office and those he chooses as his administration make no difference in energy, foreign policy, the economy, health care, the constitution, the Bill of Rights, etc, in how they manifest their world view. Disasterous.

Yea, the guy who is president can make a big difference. Remember Reagan, J Carter? Woodrow Wilson? A Lincoln? For a few.

Good post.

I do think that there will be great wailing and gnashing that you aren't accounting for. IMHO there's much to fear from the American religious militant right; they are quite likely to "try something" in my opinion.

Also, remember that things like houses are durable goods. The grotesque, oversize McMansions built recently will still be around in 100+ years with reasonable care. So, I'd predict more people living in those big houses- perhaps extended families, perhaps renters- rather than people living in small houses again.

That may not be a bad thing. 4 people rattling around in a 3500 ft/2 McMansion is NOT a healthy dynamic. My family lives in a small, cozy, intimate house and we are stronger for it, as a family.

Just when some of us here think that perhaps you are coming 'round and "getting it"...

Bank bailouts, union bailouts, queers and gays in mass droves in cities and on tv, equals sodom and gamora right along with the nuclear devices in the hands of terrorists and massive debt and all the tin foil you can get will not protect you from it. It is doom and gloom for those that don't understand it or not willing to see it but many of us are ready to put this nonsense to bed and let the chips fall.

You are against strong famies?!


J/K


I'm listening to what the good folk of the Fire say; there's much we all agree about, and I appreciate and give thought to everything I read.

But, I still think the militant religious right is the biggest threat to Constitutional governance in the event of a general societal meltdown. They are numerous, excitable, united, armed and have a violent lunatic fringe.

That's just a statement of fact. Now... that's not to say that the extreme left is better. [bleep], push comes to shove, the redneck side of my hairy white ass might win out over the hippie side. An armed, militant socialist revolution? [bleep] that noise. I'm in the other trench.

We become Argentina

You and many others here remind me of a little something I read some 30 odd years ago.

"Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life�s but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

That's what you don't get, and it's a huge blind spot. What you call the "militant religious right" is a barely surviving remnant of plain old Christian Americans finally becoming aware that a culture war has been declared and waged on them by the cultural left, and has managed nearly to entirely destroyed religious liberty, along with plain old cultural decency, in the United States. They became aware of this war far too late, and their counter efforts are extremely mild in comparison to the magnitude of the offensive. What has been turned loose against them is the awesome power of the out of control Federal court system, and that's been for a long time now.

The "religious right" is only recently starting to say they've had enough of it. They're not the ones on the offensive. They've, until only recently, been too polite and passive to even much complain about their victimization.

If the "militant religious right" was so unified we wouldn't have the President that we currently do nor would we have a lot of the problems that most of us currently bittch about. On the "right" you have militants that aren't so religious and religionists that aren't very militant. You also have a helluva lot of talk compared to some who are seemingly on "the other side" and who immediately take action. (OWS comes immediately to-mind.)

I don't have a problem with some of the "hippies" that you describe who like all their freedoms. I may disagree with them but as long as they are not forcing me nor getting too harsh with propaganda wanting my kids to follow their paths, I am cool with letting them go their merry way. There are many "hippies" though, like the group on Doomsday Preppers, who you could see, just hated guns. I have to think they acted on this hate through their votes etc. People who act on their hatred of others' freedom is where I draw the line because it affects me and mine.

As to the "strong families" implications...no, I don't want to give up my "big" house in favor of a two-room log cabin where everybody is in on nearly every occurrence. I think that although there may be some advantages to such a setup, that privacy for family members is not all bad. A lot to argue both ways there and the bottom-line is that I don't want to be forced into austerity by either the government or simple economic circumstance.

That's because you are an anti-God bigot who requires created fear and hate to justify your non-belief and prejudice. It's sad really.

No, he's just a maroon.

You all live simply so that I may simply live large.

What a bunch or whiners and crybabies. I'm hoarding FRNs.

Mr. Spano-

I am curious to know when you think the above BOOM times might begin. I am of the thought that with the baby boomers approaching retirement massively in debt and with little retirement savings our consumer based economy is going to go through an extended period of flat to slow growth. The writing is on the wall. Our largest demographic group will soon come to the realization that .gov is not going to fund their retirements. The boomers are gonna go austerity on us. The credit card and subprime fueled spending binge of the aughts is going to have to be unwound and paid off during the teens. The next boom might be a decade away.

What do your people think?

Short answer, Crash and Burn.

Crash because when the economy hits true bottom and our credit rating is gone those who receive unearned entitlements will riot. Most of these people have been taught that they are owed something due to some abstract injustice from the distant past. Conflict based not only on class, but on race.

Those in power will not dare identify the rioters as the evil doers. They will fear being called racist and say they just want justice. You defending yourself will be the evil one, the oppressor, the racist, the white devil. They will disarm everyone and focus on what they call "domestic terrorist groups" which will be simply people who band together for self protection.

Homeland security will live up to its potential, which is simply an American version of the SS. The Constitution will be suspended and martial law put in place. People who make statements or otherwise resist the authorities will be arrested and held without any Habeas corpus. A few at first, just so the public gets used to it, then in mass.

Now that the focus is on internal strife and the American who defends liberty identified as the enemy, and the focus put on them, the doors to the outside will be undefended. Those long time enemies that have been built up by our purchase of oil from them will then strike freely. They will try to take down "The great satan" while we are at our weakest.

China and Russia will come out of being so deep in the background in the clandestine assault on America and be more open. Our great enemy the United Nations will authorize "peace Keeping" in the U.S. and we will see Chinese and other forces on our soil. This also at the behest of our officials.

That pain, that labor, is the birth of the new world order. Then those who resisted, who the NWO identifies as a threat, will be exterminated.

I am afraid you are right crosshair. Just remember to "make them pay" when they come. Don't store everything in one spot. Spread it out in at lease four or more locations. STAY READY

Good luck with that. I recommend you lock your entire nest egg into a good US Government bond fund.

In the short term , I see inflation coming back big time.
It's already starting now, but will pick up speed thru 2012.
Do not put any $ into CD's

Perhaps "boom" was too strong a word. Let me revise that to say "improvement in the business cycle". This is a natural occurrence that happens at the close of every downturn.
The last recession ended in June or July of 2009.

The recovery has been sluggish to say the least, nevertheless it has been and continues to be a recovery. In my opinion, barring exigent circumstances, the economy will heat up over the Spring and Summer seasons and most likely extend into the Fall season.

It is in the great interest of all incumbent politicians to keep this recovery moving and, indeed to spur it along before the election. After the election, if BHO wins all bets are off. However if Romney wins I would predict a boom economy for the next four years. Look for unemployment to drop to the 5%-6% range. Interest rates will rise as the Fed raise interest rates to stifle inflation and prevent overheating of the economy.

Is the outlook rosy for everyone? No. Many will see no opportunity and continue to cling to the guns and ammo and dwell in the backwoods of despair. However, for those prescient enough to seize the opportunities that an improving economy presents there is money to be made.

The above are my thoughts and opinions presented in a calm and rational manner. I would appreciate responses in the same vein.

The economy will pick up substantially after the election regardless of who wins. Right now, major industry is sitting on piles of cash watching and hoping and doing what it can to unseat Obama, but after the election, they will not be able to hold out much longer no matter who wins. When they cave, rehiring will commence in earnest and the recovery will accelerate.

This might even begin before the election if industry, as a whole, sees an Obama win as inevitable, because there will be competitive advantages to taking off first and beating the competition.

To some extent, sitting on piles of cash can also be a bit dangerous as it entices hostile buy-outs. Something that may see a big uptick this summer.

IOW's happy days are here again!


cool

I would never put my entire nest egg into any one investment. Remember the fools who did that with some guy named Bernie?

I do have a position in a Government bond fund.

In an inflationary environment a ladder of short term CDs is a good bet.

Not for Obama or his fans - after all, they are out to destroy America and that cause can't be helped by a growing economy. Grim days ahead indeed, for those who love the big O.

from God's lips to your ears Brent


even cooler


amen

This is a good analysis of the present situation.

Yes, corporations are cash heavy and are unwilling to cut loose because of the uncertain regulatory environment. However there is another and perhaps better reason for hoarding cash: because of high unemployment there is no "pent up" demand for product so why produce just to fill warehouses?

There is excess capacity and excess cash. What is needed is a sparkplug to ignite demand.

The best possible scenario for BHO's reelection and the reelection of incumbents is an improving economy.

Gold is better.

Brent, does this mean two things: You will vote this time and it won't be for obama?

You must be a disbeliever in Reagan's trickle-down, supply-side economics. Because that, in a nutshell, is exactly where the true conservative belief lies. A bottom up "sparkplug" is liberal philosophy pure and simple.

This video is a bit long, and hard to follow at times but worth the effort if you want to see how seriously the world's monetary system has been 'played'...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gb-WrCehlg

Shift more of your nest egg into it.

PS The above recommendation is specifically for Spano, and not intended for anyone else here at the Fire.

I will take that under advisement. What percentage would you recommend?

I think a decent "spark" might come from the election.

I do have a small position in gold. At present I hold no CDs. I don't believe CDs are a good play in this low interest/low inflation environment.

All I know is we are selling a lot of ammo. Nothing outragous, just box by box. I think folks are getting nervous and are preparing for the worst. It's not so much that people can pinpoint the cause as something just doesn't feel "right".

I don't work the grocery side so I don't see what's going out of there. Another indicator might be the type of clothing that are being bought. Clothes that quickley go out of style or something more traditional. kwg

Yes sir...lock up your $ in those half of one percent CD's
good bet.

LOL

As much as you possibly can. I see good things for anything pegged on the future purchasing power of US Federal Reserve Notes.

PS The above recommendation is exclusively for Spano. No other Fire member should take heed of it.

Dump your gold. Use the money raised to increase your position in US bond funds.

PS See PS above.

Like the post Vietnam war era which we didn't tax for, we had runaway HIGH INFLATION brought on by the fed bank quantitative easing (printing money), which brought on runaway high interest.

Look for the same coming to your neighborhood soon.

I said in "an inflationary environment", not now. I hold no CDs at present.

My thoughts as well not an end of the world scenario but a major drop in the standard of living for most, multi generation households, high unemployment, low paying subistence jobs and expensive food will be the norm.

I believe in diversification and would not invest more than four or five percent of my investment portfolio in any one vehicle.

This is a highly recommended strategy for any serious investor.

Most posting here understand this idea...for those who may be confused, watch this short video:

http://dont-tread-on.me/?p=13678

And another Keiser Report...Gold buyers may be terrorist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hVKX7ZUBjc

If you believe that stuff, and I know many here do, we cannot have an intelligent conversation. The Fed "privately owned"?

yep. i agree. quit your doomsday whining and get to work. sheesh.

I think this is the most realistic scenario of any I've seen. To think we, or any country, can turn this thing around is fantasy. The U,S, will have to repudiate the debt or default (same thing?). I read Mel Tappan's opinions back in the late 70's and he theorized that the Fed could possibly issue a new currency which would make any cash on hand essentially worthless unless there was a grace period where you could exchange old for new at a ratio not favorable to the citizenry.

The "They" you speak of are like soldiers, expendable assets. Those in power do not consider the value of the lives expended. They are as meaningless as the masses they oppress.

Origins and Ownership of the 'fed'...
Moderately long article:
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1095269452.php

Chart of ownership:
http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html

Is this all true? I don't know. The principals sited neither admit or deny any of the information.

Like I said, that sort of spark will happen regardless of who wins. The question is how fast will it happen. It has already started. Will it remain this relatively slow pace until after the election or will industry see the writing on the wall and start moving in, say, August?

I'm starting to think the latter. Much as they would like to hold off until December, I don't think they have the guts, and will blink before the election. August, September, somewhere in there. But if not, Dec/January

I'm thinking we will see a pronounced and steady improvement in the economy over the next eight months.

Just today the Dow tested 13,000. This is a good time to be fully invested, notice I did not say "become fully invested". At these levels we are in dollar cost average territory.

There will be corrections before the markets top out at new all time highs. I would view any correction in the 8-10% range as a buying opportunity.

Sometimes an outside perspective can be very accurate, being able to see all the develpments without the hope/denial. We already don't want to pay for our empire, but we still want to be partisan fans.

I do not subscribe to Federal Reserve conspiracy theories, as many here do.

In my opinion a strong central bank is essential to the economic well-being of any First World country.

Then you fundamentally misunderstand the nature of free markets.

The government will get bigger and more intrusive.And people will welcome it.

Then you fundamentally misunderstand the nature of free markets.

Nun chucks and neck gaiters........ Quite a pair!

How about this from MSNBC
http://money.msn.com/family-money/americas-coming-homeless-surge-fiscaltimes.aspx

This will give you all a warm fuzzy feeling about our future. Consider the source and judge for yourself. kwg

America's coming homeless surgeIn the current downturn, federal assistance has helped avert a spike in homelessness, but that tap is now running dry.

.Get ready for the next big financial bubble: the growth of the U. S. homeless population.

The biggest recent assistance for the homeless came in President Barack Obama's 2009 stimulus package. The measure provided $1.5 billion to the Homeless Prevention and Rapid Re-Housing Program, temporarily aiding homeless and near-homeless households. According to a report issued in January by the National Alliance to End Homelessness, the program has helped more than one million impoverished people find housing, but it is set to end this fall.

"The resources provided by (the program) have run out in many communities . . . . Debt and deficit at the federal level have already begun to shrink assistance available to the most vulnerable," according to the report. "The failure to sustain this early recipe for success threatens to undermine progress now and in the future."
.
A separate report released in September by the same organization noted that the ranks of the nation's homeless could swell by 5% over the ensuing three years if no similar programs replace the program.

The view from the street
Veda Simpson, a former methadone addict, was homeless for 10 years, living in shelters, crack houses and what she dubbed "abandominiums" in public housing complexes. Then last year, thanks to a federal housing voucher, she moved into an apartment in the North Capitol area of Washington, D.C.


"I used to go in the kitchen and fit my body up under the sink in the cabinet -- you have to adjust your body to get up under there -- and I used to have to sleep in there so security wouldn't find me," Simpson told the Fiscal Times. "I slept in there for about six months, and it was rough."

Simpson, a vendor for StreetSense, a daily newspaper about the homeless, is one of thousands of people who have managed to get off the streets and into housing in recent years, despite one of the worst recessions in modern history, according to experts and homeless advocates. Now Simpson lives in subsidized housing with her eight cats, and she says she is two months away from earning certification as a veterinary technician through an online program. "It's really hard being homeless," she said. "I don't see nobody who wants to continue like that. They're trying to better themselves."

Despite the tough times, there are glimmers of good news, though. The NAEH report found a slight decrease in the overall number of people living on the street from 2009 to 2011: The ranks of the nation's homeless fell by 1%, or about 7,000 people.

Across the country, 636,017 people were identified as homeless in 2011, compared with 643,067 in 2009, according to the departments of Housing and Urban Development, Justice, Labor, Commerce and Health and Human Services.

With the visibility of homeless people and panhandlers on street corners of downtown areas in many cities, it's hard to imagine that the problem of homelessness is actually waning. The NAEH study cautions that the plight of the homeless is likely to grow more acute because of low-paying jobs, high housing costs and the loss of emergency federal assistance

Far too much to read.

Far too little to care.

Not directed at anyone.