I get a wakeup call early this morning from my Mom, who lives about 100 yards away, screaming that "They're in the garage trying to kill Rosco!" Rosco being her pansy half Husky/ half Collie. I only had a pair of pajama pants on, but slipped on a pair of shoes and grabbed my evil deathgun (AR15), and took off through a foot of snow to her house. I heard them in the garage, and fired off 3 rounds just outside to try and scare them off. Didn't work. I went inside, and they had him pinned between the car and the wall. They saw me, and started to come at me, so I shot the 1st one. The other took off out the door. I shot 3 times at him, but that sumbitch was picking them up and laying them down. Good news is that the 1st one won't be a problem again, but I sure do wish I had got that 2nd one...........

Give yourself a pat on the back, you just did what alot of guys would of liked to do themselves, ever since my mom was mauled by one, I hate pitbulls.

How did roscoe make out? We're they neighborhood dogs that have been a problem?

Problem is the owner of ANY dog/animal like that letting them run loose. I'm sure they will be "devastated" that little Spot was killed and it will be all your fault.

Bingo!

Roscoe is sore, and scared, but I think his nappy mutant hair protected him from the worst of it. And yes, we have been having problems with them for over a year, progressively getting worse. This was the 1st chance I've had to resolve the problem.

I wish that you had gotten that second one as well.

I am all for putting down pits, good job.

Flame me if you want, but SSS doesn't mean Say Stuff on the Screen.

Keep an eye out for fliers for a "LOST DOG"...you can then return the dead one & collect the cash reward if one is offered.
Maybe see if you can't have the other one legally taken care of...

Make damn sure there is a police report. Make sure the remaining dog is noted in that report as aggressive. Make sure the report indicates you acted in self defense. That buys you the right to shoot first and ask questions later.

Good job Hawk, glad your Ar was a 15 and not a 10, that'd tear up Mommas garage a bit.

I am one of those that thinks any dog raised right is not a menace. The damn owners should be shot IMO as well. Hope the pup (Moms) came out alright.

Deputies here were trying to serve a warrant yesterday and had to shoot a pit as well. Guy turned it loose on them, first one here in recent memory. I am sure some kid will complain they killed his "puppy". The dog weighed north of 80 pounds!

That's an 80 lb flying chainsaw where I come from T, and yes, shoot it!

I called the law, and had them go with me to the neighbor's house to tell them. I won't shoot any dog, even a Pit Bull, and not tell the owner. I've had dogs disappear, and always wondered what happened to them. I won't do that to someone else if I know who's it is. If I get a chance at that other one, I'll let them know about that one, too.

I did put a couple of holes in it, but she's not complaining...... Good thing those .224 holes are easy to cover up.

Sorry, but the pit bull breed has a touch of schizophrenia. They've been known to snap for reasons totally unknown and attack anyone and everyone. Even highly trained ones have turned killer without reason and many people have paid the price, even their owners. I won't allow one on my property.

fo sho

I sure hope he got a new charge for turning the dog on them.

One of our neighbors said they hadn't seen their cat in a couple weeks. After tap dancing all over the GTO for most of that 2 weeks in my garage, I couldn't hardly tell them the last time I saw their cat, he was headed toward a dumpster...

Prowling cats are more of a problem in my area than dogs..

GOTDAMN those tracks would piss me off too!!!!!

The same has been said about Dobermans, German Shepherds and Rottweilers at one point or another. Irresponsible breeding combined with even more irresponsible ownership can always result in deviations from the norm. Just my opinion.

They just have something not quite right bred into them. What gets me, though, is the owners that allow them to live even AFTER they have shown their true colors. If they had been MY dogs, I would have personally put them down after they got ahold of my Mom's Chihuahua a year ago.

I would add the red parenthetical.

I always thought that garbage bags with reinforced mesh incorporated into the fabric would be a good thing.

I love people and their tough attack dogs. My dog Sparky killed a pit bull that someone had not kept under control. Sparky was frolicking around in an open field near a park when the pit bull attacked him.

Big mistake! The pit bull died when he choked on Sparky...

One of my 1st wife's uncles raised sheep on a farm close to town. One the roaming dogs from the subdivision found the sheep and brought several of his buddies back to visit. Chased and killed a half dozen ewes and lambs. I'd sit up on a hills and watch for them to return. A 25-06 100 grain hollow point drops them like lightening. I could get as many as 4 or 5 in an a morning. The survivors would bring new members in the following weeks. We'd throw the carcasses brush/trash pile and keep quiet.

Jim

On my deer lease, they had one friendly cat who hung out at the cabin, and probably 20 ferals who would run like hell when they saw a person. But zero mice in the cabin. The friendly cat finally died of old age, 18 or 22, depending on who you talk to. The ranch hand also decided about then to thin the ferals, and got all but a couple of them.

So my last deer hunt, I walk in the cabin, and there are two dead mice in the toilet, several live ones running around, and droppings here & there. I set out traps and caught three of them. And spent a lot of time vacuuming, because I really don't need to deal with hantavirus.

I'd rather have cats than mice. Hopefully you won't wind up missing the cat...

If the dog was attacking, then you did nothing wrong, but theres a lot of you guys that don't understand the breed , I've got 2 of them sitting right next to me, they're not dogs for inexperienced owners, and thats why there is problems with them. about 5% of the owners that have them should have them, they're stubborn, powerful, intelligent breed, but you can't train them like some sissy ass lab or a bird dog. Given the right training, and a knowledgeable individual they are fantastic dogs, my training would be called border line animal abuse, but my dogs mind, and know who the boss is, all it takes is a look and they are running to their corners.

Pit bulls are the muslims of the canine world.

Good job Hawk!

People that let their dogs roam around really piss me off, irresponsible pet owners are almost as bad as liberals.

What did the cops say?

The Deputy patted me on the back. Literally.

Nope, he just let it out, didn't tell it to "get em", the dog did that on it's own.

Which is a very telling point about pit bulls.

Hanta virus comes almost exclusively from deer mice, not house mice.


I was called many years ago to a report where two Rottweilers had broken into a lady's house while she was away for a couple of days. They killed her border collie (and were using it for a dog bed), killed an exotic parrot the lady was boarding and tore up her carpet, walls and beds. SHe got home and shot one of them with a 10-22 with no apparent affect.

I went in to shoot them and my supv made me give the dog catcher first grab at them with a catch pole. He jumped in front of me as I was drawing down on the dog and and snagged it. I had to dump the shotgun and grab the pole and we had a fight on our hands.

This was the second time they had been out. Owner was jailed and fined $16,000 in ADDITION to restitution and someone else got to shoot the damn dogs! One of the rare times when justice was served.

Cattle are bred for certain characteristics. Horses are bred for certain characteristics. DOGS are bred for certain characteristics!!!

I love it when folks get on here and start telling us how their big bad azz killer guard dog, that was BRED to be a big bad azz killer guard dog, is just SO gentle and SO wonderful with people and kids. So are they just WONDERFUL trainers, overcoming HUNDREDS of years of breeding, or did they get lucky??

If I want a herding dog, I get a collie or healer. If I want a hunting dog, I get a pointer or setter or lab. If you want a good pet, you get a dog that has good "pet" characteristics. Foremost, that it isn't capable of killing small children or inflicting more than just a few mild flesh wounds if it decides to go beserk...

You don't try to make an Indy car out of a pickup truck. You don't haul your boat with a Honda Civic. Why in the helll do some folks insist on trying to make a pit bull or rott into a family pet??

Good post.

they weren't bred to be guard dogs....

You're right. They were bred to be FIGHTING dogs(and to kill bulls and bears)...... Even better, eh??? Now you can regale me of stories about how the breed has been "tainted", or how there's not really such a thing as a "pit bull"(American Staffordshire Terrier). Spare me....

Job well done!

I have an intense hatred of any vicous dog ever since being chased down by a German Shepherd while visiting my Great Grandmother in Virginia when I was about 10. The dog chased me through a pasture and the only way I made it was by jumping back and forth over a fence all the way back to her house.

Move forward 6 years. I was working for a farmer who's main business was hay and sheep. Over the course of a couple weeks he lost at least twenty sheep to dogs. It was heart wrenching to watch sheep laying there still alive with there back legs chewed to pieces. The dog warden came out after each attack to write a report and told us to stay on our toes because they will be coming back more frequently until stopped. One day while eating lunch, I looked out the window and saw a pack of dogs heading up the driveway. I just yelled "dogs" and ran out through the back porch grabbing a 410 that he kept there. Unfortunately for the dogs I met them near a lilac bush on their way to the pasture. Three down and the others took off North past the barn. I ran to the barn, grabbed his 30/06 pump and was in hot pursuit on foot. They stopped and took time to look back at the edge of a hay field. One dropped right there and two others laid in a line across the field at 50 yard intervals. Two pups turned at the lilac bush and got away unscathed and, hopefully, too scared to leave their yard.
By the time the farmer put his boots on, got in his truck and met me in the hay field all he said was "Holy F!".
I never found out who the owners were and after it was all over I felt pretty bad but there were no more dead sheep.
BTW: None of them were "vicous breeds".

Dogs are animals and as such are capable of "uncharacteristic" behavior. The problem is that they are like your children. The bigger they get, the bigger the problems. When a poodle attacks you, its a lot different then when a pit bull gets ahold of you.

There are FAR, FAR better pets that pit bulls. Why would anyone intentionally want one as a FAMILY pet? I think they are compensating for other inadequacies. There are always some nice stories about how a particular dog was a good pet but these things were BRED to fight and kill and have incredibly strong jaws. They kill lots of people every year. Why tempt fate?

That would get you a court date in SC, especially since you put it on the WWW. Just saying.

Personally, I've never had a dog strictly as a pet. I've always chosen my dogs by the degree to which burglars are deterred by their breed. The added bonus is that all dogs make excellent pets when raised by someone who knows what they're doing with dogs. So the dogs I've had are German Shepherds, Dobermans, and Pitbulls/Pitbull mixes. Two German Shepherds, one Doberman, and four Pitbulls and/or Pitbull mixes. Of those, the steadiest and friendliest around strangers have been the two pure Pitbulls. Not even close. Well, the Doberman was almost as friendly as the Pitbulls. The two German Shepherds were pretty untrusting of strangers, and would go for someone who they didn't know in the house, thus had to be locked away when guests came in. Not the case with the Doberman or the pure Pitbulls. The two Pitbull mixes weren't particularly good with strangers, but not as bad as the Shepherds.

The last two sentences say as much about the other breeds as they do about the pit bulls.

So, folks shouldn't have German Shepherds?

They give you a court date in SC for having cat tracks on your GTO?

People should only have labs and other such dogs. According to the campfire. My dogs are pets, that are loyal enough to defend me and my wife, they'll also retrieve whatever i tell them to, kill coyotes, and sleep in front of the guest bedroom door when my niece and nephew are over. I know more people with scars from bird dogs (me included)

http://www.wral.com/7-year-old-killed-in-robeson-county-dog-attack/15270638/

Today.

And chances are they're good dogs, and nobody will ever have a problem with them. On the other hand, if one DOES snap, you'll have to deal with a lot more damage than a Poodle, Chihuahua, or Wiener dog could ever inflict.

My lab is a pet. I defend her.

There's that, too. My dogs are simply a warning system. I don't want, or need any of them for defense. That's my job.

When I see pit bulls there is usually some baggy pants meth head wimp on the other end of the leash. I have no use for either one.

Potential burglars see a Pitbull, or Doberman, or German Shepherd, staring back at them from the front window and they usually start looking elsewhere. So while you're not home, the image of the kind of dog you have has its deterrence effect all by itself, without your dog ever actually having to do anything. Not so with most other breeds. Who's going to protect your lab when you're not home and someone breaks in because they don't respect a lab?

Have had mutts as a kid, and after college, Chessies for waterfowl. A few years after having to put down my last one, sis was working at a local vet clinic and called to see if my love & I would take a beautiful dog that was going to be put down the day after Thanksgiving. Seems that the "owner" had boarded his female pit and was then sent to The Big House for a long spell. The clinic kept her in a 3' cube for a year, unable to do anything with the owner's property. I declined, wanting to get another dog that'd hunt. After lots of tears from the 6 vet techs at the clinic, my love and I agreed to foster her for 30 days until their efforts could find her a new home. That was 8 years ago. One of those vet techs sends us a nice gift and card every Christmas.

We have chickens and visiting blacktail deer on our property. She calmly stares down our roosters that get in her face. Had a rutty 2 point buck follow her back to me as she returned a Frisbee I had tossed for her. She'd run off leash behind my mountain bike for hours, always bypassing other dogs and people. She was attacked a few times by other dogs on lead but just returned to my side without retaliation. One Aussie Shepherd attached himself to her and even he was brought to me to take care of. I could go on.

The stalwart and resolute nature inherent in the breed is a paradox that makes them both such a remarkable companion and is also perverted in the fighting pits. That latter aspect also precipitates a significant and justifiable fear. Like the young thug buying a gun, some use these strong character traits in a compensatory manner. Usually to the detriment of all parties as demonstrated in the OP's case.

Like most of you that have posted above, there's no need to abide a dog that can't be rehabilitated and take on the submissive role relative to their owner. While breeding and temperament are factors, an owner's capacity to balance that relationship with any dog is paramount. I personally haven't encountered one bad pit but have met a few ankle biters that run an entire family. The irresponsible "owner's" that sadly let those dogs run roughshod as described by the OP are the real issue....

I currently have a Pit Bill because she was abandoned, injured and I happened to be driving by. I tried to find a home for her but nothing but garbage wanted her. So she is ours now and we love her. We had a temperament test done on her and she passed with flying colors. My Dad, who is no fan of the breed, looks at her and comments on how grateful she is to have a good home now. I'm not sure what someone would have to do her to get her to bite? Other aggressive animals are met with force but she tries to play first. Despite her past she assumes the best in people and other animals.

I'd pay cash money to see someone try that with my daughter's female black lab. She even bows up on me, whenever I go in her house, until she sees that it's Grandpa..........

Posting the nonsense quoted above WILL establish you forever forward as a smarmy, somewhat uptight, dour, humorless, and probably terminally constipated chit bag.

I owned / maintained a little private "Songbird Sanctuary" on a major migration path / flyway, once.......100+ nesting boxes.

Maintained my own not so little "Pet Cemetery", (Thank you Marlin Rifle Co. for the Model 39, and thanks CCI for the CB Short).I learned an awful lot about just how screwed up this domestic and feral cat problem really IS, whilst living through that episode.

Want your Cat at HOME, alive ?

Keep your cat at home.

"Cat Lovers", that don't like what i just typed can kiss my American Azz.

"Just saying"

GTC

Yep.

Dogs do the barking, ....I do the biting,... dittos.

GTC

So the neighbor finally shows up to get his dog about 7PM, nearly 12 hours after I had to put it down. He said " I'm here for my dog." I told him it was in the back of my truck, where I wound up putting it so the other dogs would leave it be. Not a "I'm sorry" or " I wish it didn't have to happen", or " I hope your dog is alright". Without another word, he stomped off to my truck, grabbed the dog body out of the back, threw it in his truck, and spun out taking off.

You'll need to make sure your driveway isn't full of roofing nails for the next few weeks...

A piece of garbage like that will be the sneaky kind.

Watch your six, and do your very best to let the dust settle.

It MAY not,....in which case you'd be best advised to file a restraining order on the dogs and neighbor.



GTC

I simply substitute the word "Muslim" for "Pit Bull" (and vice versa) when I see these threads.

I'm with CrimsonTide & crossfireoops!

Be careful and don't hesitate to get a restraining order -- it will make your legal position stronger if this is not the end.

John

Thanks, but I don't believe I have anything to worry about. I'm a cautious man. I made a police report, and they can't get anywhere near my house without being seen.

I keep a irregular schedule so it's difficult to know if I'm home or not, I have a good alarm system and good neighbors. I live in a low crime area.
Few people know what I have in the house because I don't welcome visitors.
I live in a state that allows me to use deadly force if I catch someone in my house and feel endangered.
It takes a real dummy to risk the odds.

Geeez. Classy guy, huh? There's too much of that out there these days. I am glad that you were around to take action on the situation. This kind of dude doesn't need to be an owner of any dog.

Agree 100%

haha so true

Wow.....killing your neighbors cat must have given you quite the thrill.

Yeah, he made me regret missing that 2nd sumbitch even more than I already did.........

RDFinn,

How would you handle it?

This was in the news lately. A very sad story.

Boy mauled, killed by 3 pit bulls in Yuba County,

http://www.kcra.com/news/local-news...d-by-3-pit-bulls-in-yuba-county/37263462,

I was just looking at some figures from 2014. Pits killed 295 people in the US that year. The next worse were Rots at 85 deaths followed by German Shepherds with 15.

Interesting statistics but one has to wonder at the demographics of the owners. How would that data compare to gun owners who used a weapon in violent crime? Seems to be some unsavory characters attracted to the breed.

Perhaps the Mark Twain quote about the three kinds of lies would be appropriate.... *grin*

hilham,

Are you saying the same two dogs that got in and attacked your moms dog in the garage, one of which you shot, did the same thing a year ago. Did you file a report then? Confront the owners at that time?

One reason I ask , in a few states there are "vicious" dog laws. Depending on the severity of the attack, they get one "free ride", on the second the owners relinquish control and the dog is euthanized. If you have record of the first attack and can show the surviving dog was involved in the most recent attack and the earlier one on the Chihuahua, perhaps the "gentleman" who removed his dead dog from your truck just might be out another dog.

Sounds to me like the "people" are the real issue here, sorta like parents that let their kids run without control.


Geno

,

I don't get your point, comparing dog owners to gun owners? Do you mean dogs don't kill people, people kill people?

Are the owners at fault when their dog kills somebody? Yes, very often, or at least partly. Their big mistake is owning the wrong breed of dog.

But do pit bulls sometimes just kill people, all on their own? Absolutely, and often for no predictable reason, except for that is part of their nature.

Why does a wolf sometimes kill several animals at once, and then only eat part of one? Because it is ingrained in its nature. It just is what it is. People who ignore such things or deny them, do so at their own peril.

If your point was saying that unsavory characters tend to own pit bulls, I agree with you. But many pit bulls that have attacked or killed were not owned by criminals.

I am sure many criminals also own labs and poodles and collies. Their labs and poodles don't seem to be doing very much killing. Certainly not Lassie, either.

Perhaps you missed the part where the cat was on his property and left marks all over his vehicle.

It is very simple, keep any animals you own on your own property and all will be well.

If not...lose them.

What...didn't you see the tracks all over his vehicle, or are you another prick that thinks it is just fine and dandy to have your animal walk all over another's property.

Hh you did good and saved the dogs. And likely some kids and old people the pits wouldve attacked. Off leash and prowling the neighborhood they need to be shot on sight. They were aggressive unmanaged dangerous dogs as most pit bulls are...

Pits fight to the death and kill better than any other breed,,, pretty much all that they do better than other breed

This isn't a Pit issue. Marauding behavior is a common behavior that is inherent in all dogs and is not breed specific. Marauding dogs are a problem whenever they occur, and wherever.

The formation of impromptu marauding packs can happen anytime two or more dogs are not confined, and the majority of these types of incidents are caused by other breeds. I've seen the stats and though I don't remember the line-up exactly, I don't think Pits are in the top ten.

Pits have the same dog brain all dogs do, from Chihuahuas to the Great Dane I was working with today. Their minds are basically the same, as is their psychology. They are all pack animals and follow the leader. Even well socialized dogs are no exception...it's a thinner veneer than most owners realize.

Every dog is an individual as well. Some are smarter than others is the most significant difference as to training. But the point is that they will respond to the same methods and techniques as any other dog, and Pits don't need to be beaten into submission as has been suggested here.

No dog should be allowed to run free. Even otherwise good and decent folks who are dog owners can make a bad choice by violating that one basic rule.

When I see a dog running loose I assume that death or injury is not far behind, for some other animal or the dog itself.

I raise cattle. At several nearby houses my black neighbors raise pit bulls, chows, huskies (which are domesticated wolves), etc. Cattle and killer dogs do not mix very well to a farmers way of thinking. My two other cattle farmer neighbors and I carry rifles at all times and we know what to do. One neighbor complained to a dog owner that her 5 dogs had just killed 2 calves. The neighbor replied that they couldn't control where those dogs went and didn't believe it. The cattle owner took up position with a rifle about 200 yards from the carcasses. sure enough it was not long, they returned. Bless my neighbor's heart, he got all 5, shot the alpha dog first. I keep cameras out at all times and a loaded .30-06 with me at all times. Longest shot I've connected with a pit-bull is 406 yards. Hornady SST keeps me in the cattle business.

Reminds me of a jingle I heard here on the campfire a few years ago.

"There ain't many problems a man can't fix with a pocket full of shells and a 30-06."

I'd say the SST works very well for that application.

Marauding predators are treated equally on my daughters place and we are animal lovers. Loose cats, dogs, raccoon's,coyotes, lizards Et Al are treated with lead bullets! We have always had cats & dogs as pets, but they were house pets and do not run loose. They seem to live fairly long lives in our care for that reason.

My prediction on the owner of the attacking pit the deputies shot the other day was on TV and in the paper complaining they did not need to shoot his "pet". He did this after he bonded out on drug charges.......

If I didn't know better, I'd swear there was a pattern...

Maybe not a pattern, just a proclivity.

Geno, they got ahold of it somewhere outside, but nobody saw it, so I couldn't prove it. I've been waiting to catch them on our side of the hill, but this was the 1st opportunity that presented itself. I just wish I could have caught them BEFORE they attacked her dogs. By the way, they attacked all 3 when she let them out to potty, but then concentrated on Roscoe.

Understandable, large breeds have the potential to do greater harm if an incident does occur. You never hear about the marauding Pomeranian or such because someone would just punt their ass.

Not to take away at all from the OP....definitely sounds like a justified kill. Dog is better off dead than roaming the streets like that as a menace.

You are so full of [bleep] you wouldn't even flush anymore.

Dogs have VERY distinct character traits bred in. I do not ever expect a pit to point a bird like my setter who does it because she can't help herself. I don't ever expect to hear of a setter killing people. There's a fugking reason nobody uses pits for police K9s.

This is a pit issue you idiot! Pits go into kill mode when the switch flips. Rotts do it too. Whether another breed bites is not the issue. Other breeds bite and then back out and leave because kill mode s bred out of them. Police K9s have to be trained to bite and hold. If they don't need to be trained to do both, they are a liability.

I keep my pets properly confined. But I think I'd close the garage door before I killed someone's pet. (and the cat in the photo looks well fed, not feral) Or if it were causing problems, at least use a humane trap and take it to the pound, and let the jerk owner go get it.

I'm not saying don't deal with problem animals, but friendly strays and lost pets get some consideration here.

Boogaloo,



Humans have human brains. But in an article I read a guy decided to investigate why there are no two story building in Africa except where "white" people were in charge. He discovered the typical IQ is around 70. The typical IQ for whites is 100, for Asians it is 108 and for Israelis it is 112. I would be willing to bet if there was a way to test dog brains you would discover they are not all the same from "Chihuahuas to the Great Dane."

I could save you a lot of trouble with any test. Bigger dogs are nearly always smarter than little ones, although there are rare exceptions, and that covers intelligence only. Breed traits are another story entirely. There's no way my Dachshund, no matter how much I love him, is anywhere near as smart as my daughter's black Lab. My mother's Chihuahua is so stone cold stupid that I think he forgets to breath sometimes, but she loves him. I can't stand him, but I won't stand around and watch him, or any other dog, get torn apart by marauding Pit Bulls.

I had a dog problem once. The neighbor would let there dog out and it would bark all night.I respectfully approached and visited the owner. The owner rather beligerantly told me to piss off. The next night the neighbor let his dog out once again at around midnight. At 12:05 a big rock was thrown through his sliding glass window. I went over to the neighbors the next day and once again in a less respectful way expressed my desire to avoid trouble or even potential harm to my beligerant neighbor. Apparently he'd never encountered someone like myself as he stuttered in a shaking and somewhat scared voice his desire to be a more respectful neighbor. He never said one word about the Rock and I'm guessing the look in my eyes likely had the scared bully neighbor refraining from any further confrontation.






Shod

Off the subject, but here's the whole poem:

"Grandpa's Lesson."

Pappy took to drinkin' back when I was barely three.
Ma got pretty quiet. She was frettin', you could see.
So I was sent to Grandpa and he raised me up real good.
He taught me what I oughta and he taught me what I should.

I learned a heap 'o lessons from the yarns he liked to tell.
There's one I won't forget because I learned it 'speshly well.
There jist ain't many folk who live a peaceful, carefree life.
Along with all the good times there'll be lotsa grief and strife.

But there ain't many troubles that a man caint fix
With seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six."

Grandpa courted Grandma near the town of old Cheyenne.
Her daddy was cantankerous - a very greedy man.
He wouldn't give permission for a fancy wedding day
'Til grandpa paid a dowry - biggest ever people say.

Her daddy softened up when Grandpa said that he could fix
Him up with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six.

Grandpa herded cattle down around Jalisco way.
Ended up behind some iron bars one dusty day.
Seems the local jefe craved my Grandpa's pinto mare.
Grandpa wouldn't sell her so he lit on out of there.

Didn't take much doin' 'cept a couple special tricks
Plus seven hundred dollars and his thirty ought six.

Then there was that Faro game near San Francisco Bay.
Grandpa's cards was smokin' hot and he took all one day.
He woke up nearly naked in a ditch next early morn'.
With nothin' but his flannel shirt, and it was ripped and torn.

Those others were professionals and they don't play for kicks.
He lost seven hundred dollars and his thirty ought six.

He begged some woolen trousers off the local storekeep there
Who loaned him both a pony and a rifle on a dare.
He caught those thievin' cardsharks at another Faro game.
He got back all his property and also his good name.

He left one bleedin' badly and another mostly lame.
My Grandpa's trusty rifle shoots just where you choose to aim.

Grandpa's slowin' down a bit and just the other night
He handed me his rifle and a box sealed up real tight.
He fixed me with them pale grey eyes and this is what he said,
"You're awful young but steady too and I will soon be dead.

I'll bet this here old rifle and this honest money too
Will come in mighty handy just as readily for you.
There jist ain't many folk who lead a carefree peaceful life.
Along with times of happiness, there's always woe and strife.

But.....ain't many troubles that a man caint fix
with seven hundred dollars and his thirty ought six."

Lindy Cooper Wisdom

Some people are born with mild, passivist brains, others are born with with terrible tempers and short fuses. Schizophrenics are short circuited so they can switch back and forth in seconds. It's the same thing with dogs. The pits seem to have a genetic propensity to schizophrenia. They can switch from passivist to killers in a second and attack even their beloved owners. Several years ago, our minister's nephew visited. He had the side of his head taped up where the family's friendly pit had turned on him without warning and about torn his ear off.

No dog should be permitted to roam free, especially any dog physically capable of doing serious harm to anyone. My neighbor allows his little male Chihuahua to roam free, and simply doesn't care, as he doesn't much care if he gets run over, and doesn't believe it could harm anyone, even if he wanted to. Among dogs physically capable of doing harm, Pitbulls are likely at the very top. Thus it's a very high degree of negligence for an owner to allow his Pitbull to roam free, and there should be serious consequences attached to any harm done by his dog if his being loose is due to his negligence or recklessness. Same for any large and capable dog.

They don't have to be roaming free to do harm. There was a case last year I believe about one that tore down a fence and killed a child in the back yard next door. An 80 lb dog with blood in it's eyes can get through a very strong fence.

Thanks, H, for the reply,

I was hoping you had caught them in the act the first time also. Makes for an easier "trial" by the authorities. Your speedy "trial" of the one in the first post is the best kind in this type of situation though.

I hope you do not have recurring problems with the surviving dog (or owner).

Geno

RC,

yes they can. My 85lb+ Lab/Rot/Border Collie/Golden mix ate thru 2x2 fences, dug under other fences, could clear a 4' chain link fence, and did just about every thing else he could to get out.

But he was after girl dogs! He was alright around people, except if they came in "his" yard without me.

If a dog has a propensity for eating though/tearing down/ jumping fences, it is the responsibility of the dog owner to address the situation. Especially if the owner knows the dog has aggressive tendencies.

It p--ses me off to see owners with large dogs (pic your favorite hated breed, I'm not fussy) in places with fences in disrepair, or a small "garden fence" expecting to keep a dog in.

ULTIMATELY, the responsibility lies with the owner (unless perhaps the dog is born "feral"), but we see how responsible a good portion of the folks around the world are.

Geno

Well clearly you have to provide more than adequate containment for the dog being contained. I have two escape artists among my four dogs and I have had to go above and beyond the normal fence as a result. It is all about effort and responsibility. If someone is not willing to accept the responsability then they shouldn't be a dog owner.

TRH,

sometimes not everyone around this 'fire agrees with you
but I hope most can agree with your point of view here.

wilkes,

Sure wish we could make that a requirement for having children also!

Geno

That is a fine looking animal. With that kind of character in house you would never be left feeling bad about yourself.

The man is correct, I do not care if my neighbours keep lions and crocodiles in their back yard...so long as they are safely caged and do not come on to my land.

If they do, I will kill them. (the animals)


Fortunately my current neighbours have a lab that is very good at patrolling his yard, and if I hear him at all I damn well know that someone is about, that is a good dog...particularly as he stays in his yard.


Edited to make sure some filthy piece of [bleep] doesn't claim I meant the owners...there is always some half-bred ped on here willing to twist words.

T,

Lizards? I must ask why are lizards on the hit list? Surely you do not like bugs? And a lizard will eat quite a number of them over the course of a lifetime. And outside of a Komodo, I haven't heard of too many folks being seriously harmed by a lizard (except maybe a few too "smart" ones thinking it's OK to play with the beaded types)

Just wondering,

Geno

PS, again, good to see you haven't left the 'fire for good.

wyo,

I'm with you, I hope someone had the smarts to let him sire a few litters to keep those bloodlines around for "posterity".

Geno

We have Nile Monitors (smaller kin to the Komodo) here as well a large Alligators, those are what I was addressing. One of the damn Nile bastages killed about $400.00 worth of my daughters laying hens one time and didn't even eat any. I have killed two and my son-in-law got one in the last 18 months and any gator capable of taking out a kid, goat or calf is history as well.

Miles, virtually all dogs have prey drive(often mistaken for "aggression"). The breeding and training is what's used to express that prey drive.

Its prey drive that makes a heeler good at herding cattle and the lab hit water hard after birds, and Jack Russell's going to ground after rats/woodchucks, and pits to bate and catch pigs and and... et al ...Friggin' flyball is based on prey drive, just as scent tracking is for SAR dogs.

My neighbors now deceased 4lb. Yorkie would rip an 80lb pitbull to pieces if it were the same size. I've got husky type breeds that know how to bite just fine. The trick is teaching them when, where, and who to bite, just like K9 breeds.

So like Boogaloo said, all dogs have the same makeup when it comes to their brains, it just a question of how you want to manipulate the drive and genetic palate to determine which job you want the dog to do.

The animal in my Avatar had the potential to be a bad ass but was actually pretty gentle. However his slightly smaller female counterpart felt that everything that wasn't "pack" had no right to live.
In addition to the chain link around my yard, I had a 50'X 50' dog run that allowed access to my garage and into the house.
It was an iron fence, 5' above ground and 18" under ground with two locking gates. They were never a danger to my neighbors except for a few cats that were dumb enough to be caught in the dogs area.
One time I was out of state for a few days the dogs got into the house and set off the alarm.
According to my next door neighbor, the cops came out, looked at the dogs, and decided if anyone was in the house he was already dead so there was no reason to be concerned.

T,

Perfectly understandable now. Once they get big enough to eat stuff larger than a rat, it might be a good idea to keep them off the homestead.

I wasn't sure if you folks had Niles or Savanahs there, they can get large and nasty.

Gators, I've never had to deal with, thankfully. Sorta forgot your location there (brain fart # 27 of the day! getting old sucks) and that they are, after all, aquatic "lizards".

Thanks for the clarification, and shoot straight.

Geno

PS, you ever try eating them "lizards"?

You are just as FOS as he is and just as fugking stupid. I could just as happily euthanize apologists and rationalists for pit as the dogs themselves. English Setters didn't get to be gentle people oriented dogs by letting the fugked up ones live.

Pay attention! Dogs are Companion animals, not animals to kill undefended family members or other non threatening animals.

Those were just getting started when I moved away from there, so I never had a chance at much interaction with them. Alligators? Let's just say I bit a lot more of them than they ever bit me............. The most epic rod & reel battle I have EVER had was when I hooked a 7 footer through the front toes..........

Miles, your ignorance proceeds you, and ya might want to back off your pathetic threats of "happily euthanize apologists and rationalists for pit as the dogs themselves.", just makes you look like a dumb a$$ blow hard.

As to your comment above, are we to assume pitbulls were only bred to kill problem children and their kittens?

Owners' good intentions don't matter much to a kid who has just had his face chewed off by a dog that got through an unbreakable fence or that's chewed through a solid door. It's happened all to many times.

Excellent point.

SBTCO,

short answer.........YES

especially problem children, but even just some naughty ones (aren't they all at one time or another?)

All kidding aside, sometimes I see it mentioned in these PB threads, most times not.

Folks seem to forget that the majority of the "bully breeds" were originally bred to mostly ignore or not be aggressive to people as they were fighting dogs (other dogs or bulls, etc) or perhaps capture dogs. People aggressive ones were generally removed from the breeding program. Handlers, judges, ring attendants, hunters (for the capture dogs) wanted the dogs focused on their jobs, not on THEM.

Just as it's harder to find good hunting poodles or Irish setters in this country, well bred "pit bulls" are hard to find also. There are too many lines that started since I was a young man, after pits got popular as "attack dogs". There are not many English Bulldogs that would be worth a hoot in a ring nowadays, they have been bred away from their intended roles.

I'd be quite sure there are folks in the GSD (German Shepherd Dog) and Doberman circles, the Yorkshire terrier crowd, and a few others that would like try to find a dog that meets the expectations of the original breeders in order to improve bloodlines today.

Get a "pit bull" from a line that has been bred for multiple generations to be non-aggressive to humans, and likely you'd have a very safe dog.

Get one from the local tweeker down the road, breeding them in his backyard, chained to doghouses, the line including very aggressive males and females and I bet you have a time bomb waiting for the neighbors' kids, cats, sheep, dogs, etc.

We've got whippets, wanna talk prey drive? They have been bred for a long time to chase s--t down and kill it. Guess what, my wife and I would never leave a small child unattended with our whippets, especially the "playful" 2 year old 40 lb. male. Small kid takes off running it would only take him catching it by the neck and a good shake or artery puncture and we've got a problem on our hands. Breeze would think it was a game and he did good catching the "bunny".

My wife is fairly active in dog event stuff, agility, obedience, and (for our whippets) lure coursing. We've met a number of pits and owners who are no problem whatsoever. They are well bred, from non-aggressive lines(the dogs, not the owners. Well maybe them to as they seem nice enough ). However, we tend to watch all dogs around ours, as dogs will be dogs and even "poodles and ankle biters" can be a b--ch to deal with.

Responsibility and good breeding go a long way.

Geno

ya just gotta love folks that don't even give the owners a notice.....

I'd do some killing myself, but it might not be all 4 legged ones...

I have to admit my wife and I have had at least one discussion advocating the use of e-collars for child rearing but acknowledged the "legality" of it would be difficult to defend! Now on the other hand, some of these dog owners.....

Love coursing dogs. Never owned any, just didn't live any place where they would be practical but your example above of running children causing instant albeit potentially deadly prey drive hits it hard on the head. I wouldn't be surprised if many of these dog attacks, including deaths, start out as just that scenario, like wolves going on "surplus killing" spree in a flock of sheep.

The bigger point here is that most if not all breeds of dogs are capable of mayhem, including death. Singling out certain breeds, yet discounting others just leaves innocents vulnerable to a lot of pain and suffering. Just like guns, dogs are, one way or another, only as legitimate as their owners/breeders.

I don't need someone who is so fugking ignorant they can't figure out the difference between precedes and proceeds to tell me [bleep]. Apologist ass wipes like you are just one more part of the problem and you need to either get involved in killing off the POS pits in the world or fixing them. IT'S THE FUGKING BREED STUPID... THERE'S NOT A PIT. IN THE COUNTRY THAT OUGHT TO BE TRUSTED AROUND CHILDREN WITHOUT ADULT SUPERVISION THAT'S READ TO KILL THAT JOB ON A MOMENT'S NOTICE, AND WILLING TO KEEP THE MEANS TO ACCOMPLISH THAT AT HAND. Every other week some sweet wouldn't hurt anything pit turns into a killer. I don't care if the damn dog kills it's owner or his kid(s). That is nobody's definition of a companion animal.

I've run field trial bird dogs for a long tme. Spare me the ignorant gibberish about prey drive. I've seen a lot of them that are so extreme in their prey drive they are completely atypical of their breeds and incomprehensible to most hunters as bird dogs.

The world has well more than enough ignorant ass wipes to go around and won't miss any that get euthanized with the same bottle of sodium pentabarb used on their pits. I for one am convinced we would all be better off if they and their dogs no longer drew breath.

You really need to deal with these anger issues, Miles.

However, (speiling and grameer aside) if you reread my posts you will find in no way I have apologized for pitbulls or their owners. I would have done the same thing as the OP if faced with a similar scenario and have myself put a slug in the skull of a dog that was not raised properly and had a serious pack leader complex that got out of hand.

Any idiot, knows that pit bulls have the potential of being killers and they've proven as much many times. Of course there are those owners and their children who have been saved by their pit bulls from attacks by both 2 and 4 legged creatures and would send lead your way if you tried put their dog down. The same can be said of many other breeds. Check out the link: http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/dog-attack-deaths-maimings-merritt-clifton-2013.pdf Pits are obviously at the top of the list, but there are a lot of other breeds that maim and kill. Even you beloved English Setter put its mark on the list for at least one maiming.

People who want to equate the relationship between firearms and their owners with dogs and their owners lose sight of the fact that no firearm has ever harmed anyone of its own volition.

But people with firearms have. The banners don't so much want to eliminate firearms, as they do people having them, unless you're a cop or a soldier, or a liberal's bodyguard.

Nope, leave em for the buzzards! Now a wild hog now and then that ain't too big.....

Shotgun next time

Yep, til you're at work and they tear into your wife's arm for no reason.

Not sure if you've been around a Pitt in "berserk" mode. Send a few of them as catch dogs in action while chasing hogs with dogs. Not much will deflect a Pitt with blood in his eyes. I've seen them bite off 2" thick tree branches in their attempt to get at a hog. 5 minutes later they are meek & mild. Too much Jekyll & Hyde for me to trust them.

Apologies if my analogy was a little too loose for your liking. But I will have you know I am as staunch a believer in the 2nd amend. as anyone and a quick search on these forums of my comments on the subject bear this out.

There's a huge difference between a dog that goes bang and pops someone and then backs out which is far and away what goes on in most cases with most breeds. The dogs that go into berserk mode at don't back away after bang have no place on earth. Neither do the ass wipe apologists for them. Tying to equate a bit with going into kill mode is rationalization at it's worst. You can go to a field trail and walk through a string of setters chained to a truck. I doubt if even you would be stupid enough to try that with a string of pits.

It's not a matter of courage or steadfastness. The damn dogs just go into kill mode without regard to what it is they're killing or if there is any reason to do so. I have seen many many instances of bird dogs willing to kill themselves to do what they're bred to do. Nor is it a matter of intelligence since a pit doesn't bother to figure out what it's killing or if there's a threat requiring that response, that's just another rationalization by their ass wipe defender/apologists. Neither a matter of defense of home/property, go ask a chessie some time if you can have something of his. You will likely get bang, but he isn't going to kill you once he's convinced you it's not yours.

In short, there's no place for a dog that cannot be trusted. Just like there's no place for ass wipes who think they're good for something.

I don't trust the way pits are wired. If they were a car, they'd be under recall.

Potential burglars see a pit, rottie, or doberman looking through the window, and the burglar wraps a jacket around his left arm, then picks up a 2 foot piece of 1 1/4 inch steel pipe with his right hand. The altercation is over in less than 2 seconds with very little noise.

As told by a convicted burglar to a neighborhood watch group. Not a pleasant thought, just the way it is.

The ones he did not like were the yappy little ankle biters which hide under the bed and raise holy hell.

Pitbulls were bred for fighting, which they do very well, and most, not all, owners of pitbulls are idiots with low self esteem. I bet the owners of the dogs in this thread are drug riddled idiots.

Fused grenades rolling around on your deck, Mister.
GOOD dogs do not require that kind of treatment,....

GTC

That's an old Mossad trick. Hawkeye should know better.

Not according to burglars themselves. Studies have been conducted where convicted burglars in prison are asked to rank dogs according to breed that would cause them to skip a house over. Pitbulls rate at the top. Dobermans aren't far behind.

SBTCO,



You need to check out the word apologist. I don't think that word means what you think it does.

Prick ? Do I know you or is this the way you normally address folks. To your question, of course not and I am a car nut so I can certainly understand Kirk's anger with that nice ride of his. I probably would have kicked that frickin cat in the head or caused some type of harm he'd soon not forget. It just sounded, and maybe I'm wrong, that he knew it was a neighbor's pet. Don't recall if he shot the frickin cat or trapped it. If he trapped it, of well, so be it. Feral cats are open season.

How did the cat get into the garage in the first place?

Once you let your cat out the door the only way to know where it goes is to attach a gps or a camera.

I would have just opened the door on the first day and let the cat out...but I generally don't want any animals in my garage. The lizards I don't mind, they eat bugs and don't bother anything.

Cats don't really like to be confined.

I've been encouraging my cat to go into the garage to look for rodents. Before the cat adopted me a rat pissed on the gas tank on my bike a while back and blistered the paint.

Well I don't know if Miles understood the points I was making in my post or if he read it all the way through it, but I don't think my post disagrees with his points.

So I have to agree with him that if a Pit has his teeth latched onto your a$$, then that is indeed a Pit problem...

And also that there are great variations in intelligence between individuals, both dogs and humans...that's clear to see.

And...that some dogs and some humans tend to be Schizo.

So as you can see, so far we all seem to be on the same page.

Now Miles,


Now Miles, if you are still slandering me as an apologist for pits this makes at least 3 times you've called for my permanent removal from our wonderful planet.

Your last chance to say sorry and be nice...or else!

Well here is the entire quote.



Perhaps the paragraph break was misleading. There are some researchers who have developed IO tests for animals. As for humans, the book "The Bell Curve" discusses those variations among humans, as I am sure most here are aware of it.

Thought the same thing myself. He obviously takes good care of that goat as I've seen pics he's posted of that beauty.

You are deliberately twisting his intent, and his words.

That book influenced my hiring for years.

Pit Bulls are the dog of choice of joos and NEOCONS...I also hear the same bunch keeps shower guns and are afraid of negroes in pick up trucks...

Or else what? You going to go buy a pit and show me how nice they are?

Normal Campfire procedure, once dialogue has reached the "or else" point is for you two to pick a bridge somewhere, meet up under it, and settle this.

Keep us posted (so's spreadsheets can be generated / bets laid,) take lotsa' pics, .....

Miles58, since SBTCO is making the call out, you get to choose the weapons.

Get with it, boys.

GTC

If it is off the back porch, it is feral.

bullshit.

It does not matter how the cat got in, it was on another's property doing what it shouldn't.

So, dead.

As for your cat, who cares what your cat does on your property, off your property is another thing entirely.



This seems to be the crux of the matter...there are those that think their pet has right of access to everyone else's property...and you all seem to get upset when you lose the pet.

The fault belongs solely to the owner that does not control his animal, this is no different than a farmer allowing his stock to roam over a highway or a neighbours crop.

Then do not raise cats here, for the overwhelming majority think as I do.

So does our Government, as we have untold millions of the bastard things roaming about.

It would be refreshing to see a round of good old fashioned nut kicking.

Square off, take turns and see who's standing at the end.

Has either Miles or SBTCO had bionic knee surgery? That could be a "deal" killer.

Since I have no idea where the "land of milk and honey is" (it sure isn't where I live!) and a cat wearing a COLLAR is in my garage and putting his soft pads all over my car and belongs to a neighbor, maybe I'm just odd, but the civilized part of me says to first go over and inform said neighbor of the problem, then if it persists, I would seek other alternatives.

Unless I or my family were in danger (as in a rabid cat/dog or one of TRH's Pit Bulls), I'm just not into killing pets.

Australia, Jorge.

And as for the latter, suffice to say you and I differ in this aspect as I have no tolerance for some mongrels dog or cat [bleep] al over my property.

I have no tolerance for what you say either, I just can't shoot pets. A weakness on my part. As to Australia, lovely place and lovely folks.

So if you had a cat or dog that ran onto my property, you're OK with me blasting them ?

I have already shot animals of mine own that were uncontrollable...and any neighbour that beats me to it is just saving me the effort of taking the animal out to the paddock and shooting it myself.

Unlike yourself I do take property rights seriously, both mine own and those of my neighbours.

Man alive.

This. You gotta love a steely-eyed cat killer who doesn't even have the balls to tell the neighbor what he did. Probably feared having to pass his dentures a week later.

So, in your mind (since you replied to HilhamHawk in your post), he should have given the owner notice first? Screw that.

I'm a dog person, love them, but I'd a shot that dog on the spot as well.

Actually turkey breath, my neighbours do know my predilection for removing unwanted pests from my property.

Now kindly toddle off and play with your other ped mates.

Boo...scat!

Not talking about you, idiot.

Don't really care, you got a reply from me as you are obviously an unmitigated prick.

You deserve it.

Yorkies vs pits, close contact.

I don't know how old Miles is but considering I am closer to 60 than 50, and most things (excepting noses and ears) seem to shrink as we age, I may have an advantage, bionic knee or not.

As to you Miles and your irrational hatred of all things pitbull.........





....Aeh Faart in Yoor Geneeraal Dahrection....

I'd have to agree with you. I can't bring myself to shoot an obviously domestic cat, or dog, just for the crime of trespassing. Obviously feral animals, or one's that are being a threat to me or mine? An entirely different story.

That is not what I am saying, you are completely missing any of my points....

I think it does matter, if you leave your garage door open all kinds of animals will find entry. Cat behavior is very different than dogs and cattle...they are not herd animals and are difficult to confine. I often come home to see the cat profiled on my 2nd story roof looking like a weathervane...I never saw any dogs or cattle up there, so unless you want to lock them in a room with no exit...say like a garage...that was my point.

When I didn't remember to leave my front door closed, within a short time, I've had cats, dogs, possums, frogs, lizards walk in, a tortoise...but when my horse walked into my living room, that's when I figured it out...I can't claim to be the smartest one in the bunch.

I don't think the cat wanted to be confined in the garage for two weeks without food and water, and had a door been opened, even within the first hour, all you would have seen is a blur of a cat leaving the scene.

The cat may have been in the garage looking for rats or other small animals that he could smell or hear, not to degrade a sacred piece of Detroit iron. A rat however, seems to have no couth whatsoever in that situation.

If you have some understanding of the problem and the inherent nature of the animals involved, then you can prevent the problem (preferred), or minimize the problem without causing more problems for yourself down the road. If I locked any cat in a room for two weeks I would expect it to search every square inch of the space to find an exit.

If a strange cat was in my garage with my Porsche or BMW, I'd want it out of there right now...I wouldn't wait for two weeks and make sure all the exits were sealed off so that I could shoot it or trap it...clawing a convertible top could get pricey, but that's just me.

Talk to the burglars whom are not PETA members!

In my entire life, the dogs we've had were chosen based on which breeds folks are most afraid of, and that for burglary prevention. While houses all around me, in several different places where I've lived these fifty-something years, neighbors without such dogs have been burglarized, while no house I've lived in ever was (apart from theft from an open garage). I choose to believe that's not a coincidence. Believe what you like. That's a very long string of good luck if it's nothing to do with my choice in dog breeds.

My daughter's first Pit mix (on left) was so vicious it was decided to get him a playmate.



...here he is getting ready to attack.....

RD, nice looking pups, take care of them well.

the rest of this reply is not to you directly.

What an interesting thread this has devolved into.

Nut kicking under bridges and all!

Yorkies vs pits!

Cats on roofs and in garages.

I'm probably forgetting something, but it's been an interesting read.

I'm not sure about which state the car owner (Shrapnel, MT?) with the "solved" cat problem lives in, but depending, it could have been no major offense for trapping a cat on one's property. My take on his post was not that the cat was in the garage for two weeks, but that the track making on the car was accomplished over the course of a couple of weeks. Perhaps I'm wrong in my thinking tho. However it was, those are a lot of prints on that car. And there should be no requirement that a person close their garage door fully either, during the day or night.

Used to be in California, cats were not considered domesticated animals, and therefor owners had no responsibility. Saw a case many many years ago on the "Peoples COurt" program, and Judge Judy was surprised when she dug into it and came back with her ruling. Condos, cat jumped from one balcony to another, knocked over table with expensive vase, vase owner "sues" on Peoples Court, Judy finds for the defendant as there was no basis in CA law for the vase owner to recoup funds from an incident involving a "wild" (non- domesticated) animal.

It also meant, (it may have/probably has changed over the years) that cats in your yard, garage, on your roof, etc were basically "fair game" as they weren't someones "pet". One might get in trouble for discharging a firearm in a closed area, but not in trouble for killing the cat. This I know, as my friend's father shot the neighbor's cat going back over the fence after weeks of it pis--ng on his brand new 1964/65 International Travelall. Getting in through a torn vent screen to sleep on the warm hood, then peeing on it. If recollection is correct, the neighbors were warned.

Neighborly thing to do? Civil thing to do? I'll leave that for you all to decide, individually.

JStuart, I hope this finds you well and enjoying life below the equator (unless one is looking at it from a "southern" perspective, then one would be above it?).

If I'm not mistaken, you folks have an entirely different problem there with feral cats, similar in some respects to your problems with foxes and rabbits, no? I'm assuming there is a year round "open season" on them. I can easily see your point of view of "euthanising" them on your property then.

I'll also hazard a guess you have no "open range" areas there? Your comment about stock getting into a neighboring farmer's land fits with many places in the eastern half of our country, but out west here there are many places where if you don't want the cows to eat your roses or cross your road, YOU better fence them out. (I have an interesting anecdote regarding that occurrence on a friend's ranch and a person who purchased a 40 acre parcel within the ranch's confines)

Mr Stuart, enjoy the rest of your summer, fall is approaching. I'm sure you'll appreciate the break in the heat. I'll be appreciating the break in the rain (hope hope hope).

Now, I'm hoping there is no nut kicking contest as we have no real need for such shenanigans, do we?


If there is, the WNKA (World Nut Kicking Association, official governing body of the sport) requires the contestants to wear a cup and to only wear slippers (Steel toes are an automatic disqualification. Fines will be incurred also, payable to Valsdad...... in cash, for tax purposes of course)

We need a volunteer to call the play by play also.

And do not, under any circumstance, schedule it on an evening when the Sharks are playing.

Geno

life must be challenging for some.

neighbors cat in garage?

A) let it out and fix the hole where it got in.

or

B) trap it, beat it to death, post the pics on a public forum, then lie through your teeth to your neighbor.

Where exactly is "the land of milk and honey"?. Scratch that. I see Australia.

I watched a program on your fantastic Bowerbird and it's struggle against extinction due to predation by non-native feral house cats. They were shown to be an enormous ecological problem in Australia.

Australia!, Mate...

Hello, we are in high summer here but the weather cannot seem to make it's mind up.

As to the feral cats here, there are untold millions of them and they are making a mess of the native fauna...and shooting the cats is something that every firearms owner does here, I do not think I have ever met a hunter that doesn't shoot cats, same goes for fox and rabbits.

The land in this area is all privately owned and fenced.

We do not have a lot of tolerance for cats.

They are a plague that keeps on breeding, and the cat loving half-wits in the towns cannot seem to get their minds around the concept as they are not impacted by the creatures, or the numbers.

Do you shoot Dingo's on sight? I hope so.

Don't see them around here, but anyone on private land near the big parks shoots them or get their stock eaten.

Same as wild dogs...shoot them.

Hey Gino, You up for being my corner man (or bucketman or what ever the WNKA calls it)? You sound like you've had some experience in these matters of testicle mashing contests.

Makes sense to me. About 30 years ago, I found a book entitled "The Truth About Dogs" by a vet describing the qualities of different breeds. I was surprised to see how often German Shepherds killed infants and small children and how bad Chows are.

He wrote that coon hounds were one of the very finest breeds as pets. Why? Because they are bred as working dogs by practical farmers. If a dog does not exhibit good qualities, it will be put down so as not to repeat the defects in the breed.

I currently have 4 Jack Russell Terriers and they are too feisty for their own good.

Now that we are in NM, our neighbors way they would have no chance, even as a group, against coyotes, cougars and bears, all of which roam this area. I keep them fenced, but indoors at night.

Lol.

Or else you get another warning!

Aren't people who worship cats or dogs considered to be pagans?

Maybe so,personally I worship big titted blondes in Viking getgups, so what's your point?

Pics or it didn't happen.



P

How's about a stanza from a poem instead?

Three times nine girls, but one girl rode ahead,
white-skinned under her helmet;
the horses were trembling, from their manes
dew fell into the deep valleys,
hail in the high woods;
good fortune comes to men from there;
all that I saw was hateful to me.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valkyrie)

Not a bad thing to worship, eh Jorge!

Geno

'you're worse than a fuggin liberal gun grabber. 3x as stupid too. Absolutely nothing you've wrote on this thread is correct, its nothing more than knee jerk rhetoric from an incredibly unintelligent person.

HA HA,

sorry bud, I'm not choosing sides. And at my age I have not interest in such merriment! (even with soft shoes and cups I'd not like to see the outcome should someone "miss")

Geno

Thanks. I think Pits get a bad rap for the most part as everyone of them I've encountered have been big pussy cats.

There's the rub. They all are...... until they ain't.

But......"they" get the opportunity.

Not that you GAF what a Yanked thinks, but in your position I would have done the same. My "neighbor" on the property behind me (he's quite a ways off in reality) has pits.....maybe only one now as I think his oldest died. Both are/were apprehension trained and fairly solid. He knew, with no confusion, that I'd smoke his digs in a heartbeat if they got loose/were a problem. He's a responsible dog owner so no issue.

Where the "argument" goes sideways is when folks (not you HH) try telling folks what dogs "should" be owned. Slippery slope
.....

George

My sister once spent a couple days in the hospital, courtesy of a black lab.

Yep, a black lab. Bit her on the arm, and the bite got infected. The owners paid the medical bills, and put down the dog. It had bitten someone else before.

Right there is part of the problem. Macho dog owners.
BTW- When it comes to dog intelligence the "sissy Labs" rank 7th and the Bull Terrier doesn't even crack the top 60. Pitt Bulls ain't exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer.

I missed that the 1st time. A big, yellow "sissy ass lab" is what kept them on their side of the hill the last year, but he came up missing a couple of months ago. I suspect the Pit's owner had something to do with it, but never had any evidence.

I can't quite say the same as I volunteered quite a bit here:

http://www.fresnobullyrescue.org/

and we got dogs in that were basically "un-adoptable". Small percentage, but we got them. Some I wouldn't even get in the kennel with, the permanent workers who were familiarized with them had that job.

Fresno must have the highest per capita population of "pit bulls" I've ever seen. Chihuahuas also. In the same household a lot of times! And folks in one neighborhood my wife lived in were in the habit of letting them out in the AM to do their business.

Yours look wonderful.

Geno

Even with the threat of a another nut kicking challenge, I have to disagree with the supposed intelligence quotient given to breeds. Maybe some validity in the most basic way but like people, it mostly comes down to the individual. Although I do think the less refined/domesticated the breed is the higher the IQ value, such as primitive/pariah type breeds.

A dog may be less trainable than others or not do well in set up IQ tests but that may be them just not wanting to mess with it. Case in point, our old GSD came to recall and other basic commands just fine but in the big scheme of things she was about as low IQ as they come. Our Karelian Bear dog would out smart her in his sleep with one paw tied behind his tail, and did it constantly. The breeder the GSD came from had been supplying local law enforcement with dogs so she had the "breeding", poor thing just got the crap end of the litter.

Well, maybe I will serve as your second, seeing as how you had a Karelian.

Geno

PS, naahh, but it's still cool you not only know what one is but owned one

Our third is sleeping behind me at the moment. Picked him up as a rescue. Goofy knot head and a big woos compared to the other two but still a good dog.

Been nearly a week now, and the one I missed has gone incognito. He won't even chase my truck anymore.

Shrapnel, you caught a cat in a trap? You are a sick, and weak man. You are pitiful.

That's a problem when my neighbor can own a dog that can kill my child.
I told my wife there will never be on my street a pit-bull.
I will gut shoot that SOB and send him home to die. And not say a word to anyone.
As for the cats same thing.
If you complain to the owner it could cause more problems. Believe I know

After reading through this thread, there is some wisdom, some ignorance, and some good ol' fashioned stupid. To wit:




Not this one. My geriatric pit & I will take that bet for an easy $100k.

mugadutz?

and if your neighbor happens to own a Rottweiler? St Bernard? Mastiff? Bull Terrier? German Shepherd Dog? Cane Corso? Giant Schnauser? Black Russian Terrier? Labradoodle? Pudlepointer? etc etc etc?

Those all are dogs "that can kill" your child. Every one of them.

Would you "gut shoot" any of these breeds if your neighbor had them?

Or only "pit bulls"? Are you an "expert" in identifying "pit bulls"? Do they just have to "look like a pit bull"?

Here's what happened to the pros (I highlighted an important part for you if you are going to "gut shoot" other peoples "pit bulls".

The Veterinary Journal

Volume 206, Issue 2, November 2015, Pages 197–202

Inconsistent identification of pit bull-type dogs by shelter staff

K.R. Olsona, J.K. Levya, , , B. Norbyb, M.M. Crandalla, J.E. Broadhurstc, S. Jacksd, R.C. Bartone, M.S. Zimmermanf

Show more doi:10.1016/j.tvjl.2015.07.019
Get rights and content Under a Creative Commons license

Open Access

Highlights

• Animal shelter staff and veterinarians are frequently expected to guess the breed of dogs based on appearance alone.

• Even when observing the same dogs at the same time, shelter staff had only moderate agreement with breed designations.

• One in five dogs genetically identified with pit bull heritage breeds were missed by all shelter staff.

• One in three dogs lacking DNA for pit bull heritage breeds were labeled pit bull-type dogs by at least one staff member.

• Lack of consistency among shelter staff indicates that visual identification of pit bull-type dogs is unreliable.

Here's a link to the full journal article if you're interested.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S109002331500310X

If you're gonna start shootin' you better be damn sure you know what you're shootin' at . Even staff at vet clinics (they probably see a few dogs there, ya think?) have a 1/3 chance of calling a dog with NO DNA of "pit bull" a pit bull, so you just mgiht shoot someone's dearly beloved mutt.

That last line from the highlights of the article is really important so I'll put part of it up again:

"visual identification of pit bull-type dogs is unreliable"

Have fun gut shooting folks dogs.

Geno

PS, I have absolutely no problem with what HillamHawk had to do, so I don't have an issue shooting a dog that's in attack mode.

The pure pits I've owned have been precisely that. Introduction to a stranger was, to them, the introduction of someone else to joyfully celebrate the presence of. Not a hostile thought would occur to them during such an introduction (Quite the opposite was the case with my two German Shepherds).

Their genetics give to them an ability to enjoy a fight without fear, and to persist in it till near death, but that doesn't seem to have the effect of making them human-aggressive by nature. I wouldn't even call the trait animal-aggressiveness. Mainly it's a lack of fear of aggression or injury. The result is that it's quite easy to encourage animal-aggression in a Pitbull. Discourage it from puppyhood, though, and they don't seem to exhibit it any more than most breeds. Their minds are far more complex than that of a fighting cock. The latter's fighting prowess comes significantly from an inbred pugnacious attitude. Not so with the Pitbull.

A Pitbull's ability and tendency to stick with a fight, and be quite destructive in one, though, is why you shouldn't leave them alone with other animals, even if you have one that's generally non-aggressive towards them. Other dogs in that case might display aggression, which will be happily met by your Pitbull, to unfortunate outcome.

Our sweet girl from 9 years ago. Sadly, she's nearly at the end of her road now.




Perhaps the whole issue of aggressive critters can be summed up by the fact that in nature, one is generally either dominant or submissive. Whichever role the "owner" takes on, their critter will likely take on the balancing opposite. With savvy and determination, one can rather quickly get a critter to capitulate the dominant position in short order or in due course with some knowledgeable encouragement. I've had the good fortune to do it with everything from a charging griz while steelhead fishing the Skeena tributaries (not such good fortune) to a goodly number of roosters in our family's flock....

When one isn't solidly on the dominant camp and "owns" a pit, it can be a recipe for disaster. The OP's tale of events as testament to same. In the case of ankle biters, they're just dismissed for being cute and the unhealthy relationship is reinforced.

For those so inclined, take a few minutes to watch this video of Cesar Millan working with the People more than the aggressive pit. Watch the unspoken body language of all the actors and how they change. Listen to the words they use to describe their relationship around the dog. Watch how the dog shifts from fearful/aggressive/dominant to balance the initial relationships as the owners make their own shifts. Perhaps the same things apply to the out of control teenager in your own home. There are some amazing gifts that can come from a pit, if one can perceive the silver lining beyond the narrow confines of fear and prejudice....

Evidently you bleeding heart, goody two shoes probably don't have any kids, and if you do are you going to take a chance. I will eliminate the dog before it eliminates my child.
And further more there are to many dogs and cats out there, some just need to be eliminated.

Plus you people probably voted for Obama.
And your wife will vote for Hillary

I'll kill if killing is needed.
I'll get no pleasure from it.
I won't be on a web site bragging about it.

A pos like you had better be slick. I catch you fn with my dogs, while secured on my property, and it would be hell to pay.

When we adopted our shelter dog I bet 60% of the dogs they had were labeled "Australian Shepards". I never realized they were quite so abundant.

Brutal behavior and quote, GTC.

BTW.......Ummmmm.....to hijack this thread just a little bit......aren't you the same guy who hounded (no pun intended) and continually tried to publicly discredit Stripbuckhunter for a couple years over your very same philosophy regarding marauding, killing, biting pets and his similar thread describing this very same thing about dogs? All he did was to state the very same things mentioned here 100 times. And mentioned by you above.

What gives??

"Just asking".

mugadutz,

interesting post there.

but not one answer to any of the questions I asked

Thanks for "discussing" the issue, as is the intent of "forums":

From Merriam-Webster:

forum
noun fo·rum \ˈfȯr-əm\
Simple Definition of forum
Popularity: Top 40% of words

: a meeting at which a subject can be discussed

: a place or opportunity for discussing a subject

: a large public place in an ancient Roman city that was used as the center of business

Geno

PS, my wife might just vote for Hillary. What does that have to do with the subject at hand?

You didn't get a fugking bit smarter in your time away from here did you? You idiot! The issue is their tendency to attack a child and keep going untl they kill it. That has not one [bleep] thing to do with a fight.

People like you are why I think euthanasia is a good idea. You won't figure out YOU'RE the problem even when it come up and bite you on the ass quite literally. Until you and the other [bleep] who think this isn't the problem get a clue this kind of [bleep] will keep happening.

Risk vs. Reward

I don't see a specific reward of owning a pit over a different breed of dog that doesn't come with the baggage. -tnscouter

He'd soon wish for death.

Oh you poor misjudged pit bull you are such a nice doggy. The neighbor kid might like you also, but oh I forgot she is in the hospital because you chewed her up.

C'mon man. No responsible and descent dog owner of ANY breed wants an innocent person hurt by a dog. You are throwing a pretty wide net there.

Well, Mr. Darnell ( AKA "Stripbuckhunter / Hombre") The cats were jumping a fence and coming on MY property (well , mine, the songbirds, and my sleepy old Newf-Dog, birds would perch on him and pull hair for nests)
You were going out with your pals and killing Rancher's dogs on the rancher's property,....

You chose to write that up here, not I.

Quite a mouth on you, for someone whom English is pretty obviously a second language.

Where ya' from originally, Rambo ?

GTC

Don't give a rats ass about my English.
It's [bleep] that put there dogs ahead of the safety of little kids.
What wrong with this picture.

Where's the picture?

Right their.

I see what you did their.

Not that he probably gives a fuuck but my opinion of Shrapnel just went way down.

Seriously WTF, kill the neighbor's cat because it got in the garage and left tracks on the hood of an old fuucking car?


Wow, some people really take their material possessions pretty serious.



A cat got in our garage once and left tracks on the hood of my wife's black SUV. Wasn't even a blimp on my radar, guessing we washed the car and forgot about it.


Few years ago some neighbors had too many dogs. They packed up and got into a herd of our cows. Icy ground in the springtime and one cow died and one or two more sluffed their calves. Cost us several thousand dollars and of course we were highly pizzed off.
Figured out whose dogs they belonged to and we let the neighbors know that if it happened again that we would take care of the problem.

Well, you guessed it. I caught the dogs in the act one day and shot 3 of them. Let their old lab run home because I knew he was harmless. End of problem.

If that were my cat you would be a sorry sob...
Its been my experience that if a person mistreated an animal then that person would do the same to a human being.

673,



Defending one's property is mistreating an animal?

is it ok to beat a dog to death for pi$$ing on your truck tire?

Keep your door shut for [bleep] sake

Im all in for shooting a vicious dog in the face as my post on pg1 of this thread, you can live trap a nuisance cat or dog pretty easy, but for walking on a car, really?

People who value their pets should take care of them, not leave them to roam.

Shrapnel's solution may seem harsh to some, but a classic car with a multi-thousand dollar paint job is an investment that deserves protecting.

BTW, Shrapnel's car was in its garage. Why wasn't the cat in its own garage?

Kill them all. Let the bleeding hearts sort them out and bury them.

To many dogs and cats anyway.

Exactly. Too many cats and dogs running around anyways, if you truly cherish your pet keep it on your property. The whole equating dogs/cats to children is a sick fetish that unfortunately has gained a lot of ground in recent decades. Frankly I find it disgusting. I love my dogs. If you come onto my property and do them harm, may God have mercy on your soul, for I will have none. If they wander off, I'd appreciate a heads up so I can rectify the situation and I do go to great pains to keep them home. [bleep] happens, and sometimes dogs do wander off. Nature of the beast(s). But if my dog crosses the property line and you smoke it I'll not feed you to the worms. If your cat shcits in my garage, or in my wife's flower beds I will explode it's guts. Or let my dogs eat it. My choice.

Shrapnel isn't the brightest guy on here, his user name alone should tell you that. If that happened to our cat it wouldn't be pretty. I do hope John Burns stops by, he has a way with ol Shrap

As for the original post the guy did the proper thing. A huge difference between defending someone's animals from attack compared to a cat walking on a crappy old car.

Voting for Obama I could forgive. I have made money while he is Pres.

I cannot forgive pit bull owners. A pit bull wandered into our backyard in 1965 and attacked my baby brother. I intervened and it turned my body into hamburger.

I have a friend who was assaulted by blacks and badly injured. We excuse each other's permanent bias.

Keep your animals on your own property you low-life ignorant [bleep].

I guess I just dont like to see an animal hurt or killed for such a small infraction, then when a pic is posted I question the stability of some peoples thinking.

I think people who need vicious dogs, especially pit bulls suffer from small Dick syndrome

Do you have any progeny?....

I was at a crosswalk, in Seattle at the South end of Lake Union, waiting for the light to change.
A woman half my age, covered in tattoos and piercing, walks up beside me with a pit bull on a leash.
I asking politely, "Is that a pit bull?"
She brayed in my face like a jackass, "IT BITES!!"

I was taken aback. Up until then I had only made contingency plans for shooting one of them.

There's no up side to encouraging a stranger to cozy up to your dog while walking him.

You need to play monopoly and get beat again and again by a recklessly aggressive player until you learn why the federal reserve is good for America.

Talk to me about it again when you have a few million rubbed together.



How to shoot a pit bull

That is fair...I think you are an idiot.

Now THAT is funny!

Similarly...I think you are an idiot as well.