Saturday morning my wife and I had to run some errands and left home around 8:30. On the way out I spotted a dog and a shopping cart full of "stuff". There under a group of cedar trees sat a homeless woman. She was not there the evening before. Saw her still sitting there two hours later when we got home. Saturday around three I walked to the store around the corner and saw she will still there. When I was at the door of the store I heard sirens and saw two police cars headed down the road fast. When I got back fifteen minutes later there were three police cars in front of where the homeless woman had been sitting all day. She had hung herself in the time it took me to walk to the store. I got the details today, 22 year old heroin addict hit bottom and did not rebound.

She should have been at the prime of her young life with a lot to look forward to but she hit bottom for the last time. It breaks my heart.

"There but for the grace of God, go I."

There's broken people in every dimly lit corner of this World.

Sad deal.

Sad story, seen all across the country every day. But doing drugs is a victimless crime right? Does anybody believe that lie anymore?

Damn. Sure hate to hear those stories. You always wonder ,What If.

yup, a lot of sad stories out there.

I have been doing a lot of that the last couple of days.

Very sad. Drugs bring so much misery to the world.

Opiate addiction is some scary stuff. I wouldn't wish it on anyone's family.

It's hard to understand how casually young people of today turn to opiates.

Even back in my rather mis-spent youth, everybody in my then wide circle of friends knew that opiates were a bridge not to cross.

Today, it's everywhere and people seem to have no qualms about playing Russian Roulette with it.

Heroin is all over up here. It's now cheaper than pills apparently.

To bad she hung herself before she could be arrested.

I'm with Bristoe on this. I turned 15 in November of 1950 and had already had lots of experiences but NONE of the guys I knew ever got in on the drug scene. We were cowards and glad of it!

A few of my gang made home brew so we drank that on occasion and purchased a Little canyon run once in a great while but none of the stuff that so many kids and adults are on nowdays. I could not understand the attraction.

Damn, that's a crappy deal all the way around.

Yes indeed.

Heroin is big time in hillbillyville where I live.

I have screwed up discs in my neck and chronic pain can make a person contemplate things you might not when doing ok. But I never dreamed of using heroin.

God have mercy on this next generation. A lot of things are stacked against them at that age.

Most of San Francisco, if not California.

According to this website: https://www.futuresofpalmbeach.com/addictions/mortality-rates-relapse/

Heroin addicts have a 78.2 % chance of relapse. Call me cynical but too many people must be making money off the drug trade to ever shut it down.
Pray for your children.

Useless POS is dead. Who really cares here?

Well, with the kids getting pumped full of Ritalin, which is a Schedule II narcotic, opiates are not much of a leap.

Sad state of affairs.

Jeez I hope that's sarcasm. Not wanting to pick a fight but.... Would you say the same had she been an alcoholic?

Everyone has their vices. Ain't nobody perfect.

I do.

In my youth it was beer mostly. Some kids smoked weed.

Nowadays a lot of kids are taking their parents prescription meds to get a buzz. Some of those pills are very addictive opiates too.

That's a bit harsh...man anyone can fall drugs, alcohol, gambling etc etc. Remind me to stay on your good list.

I am grateful I never got into drugs and never became an alcoholic. I have alcoholics on both sides of my family for at least two generations but I never liked the feeling of being out of control or the feeling of being high. Drugs were around from the time I was in my early teen but they never tempted me. I even hate too take pain meds stronger than aspirin.

I have no idea what daemons this young woman faced, never walked in her shoes. I just hate the thought of her young life lost.

Folks drink alcohol and don't become alcoholics, people smoke pot and don't ruin their lives, people can recreate with drugs and not become addicted, millions do and have done just that.
It's the people's choice, and in today world of warnings and rehab help, there is no real excuse other than that is where they choose to be.

Still sad to see people do that to themselves/

When my kids were in their late teens I took them down to skid row in Vancouver BC several times and showed them what it could be like if thats what they chose.
We are all one step away from that type of life, actually there are lots of very educated people living that lifestyle, my brother was one of them.

He had a subcription to Time magazine, but lived on the street, my family and I cried enough tears but it did no good, I fuggin hate drugs.

I do. She was somebody's child. I have a daughter. Most of all, I'm a Christian and Jesus would have me care.

Unfortunately we have some POS on this forum who make comments to get attention. Best thing to do is to put them on ignore.

You're correct, but EdM isn't one of them. Frankly his comment surprised me. Everybody is welcome to their own opinion.

I care too. That was somebody's daughter who they cherished and loved as I cherish and love my girl. That was a baby 22 years ago with parents who had hopes and dreams that did not include suicidal hanging.

God's peace to all involved.

I was wondering how long it would take someone to make an idiotic statement here. Congrats, EdM you win that title. Who cares? Perhaps her parents, or her grand parents, siblings, or maybe the neighborhood kids she grew up with. How 'bout the cops and paramedics who had to deal with this? I wonder if anyone will "care" when you pass? If they read your callous post here, fewer of them will. Get off your high horse and quit passing judgement on others. If this was your daughter, would you care? I'm guessing you would.

I watched my beloved father die from alcoholism. Even back in the days when I was running the bar scene with my buddies, I knew that just wasn't for me. I guess watching my dad die kept me clean. Whatever the case, it's such a shame to see young folks headed down this disastrous path.

+1
Life is full of minefields when you're young. EdM has apparently been lucky enough, along with all those he loves to have avoided them. Some aren't so fortunate.

John

Yeah, but statements like he made don't exactly endear him to the rank and file here.

I bet not many would be licking her crotch if she was a Syrian refugee that bought the heroin with her 'relocation' money.


We make choices in life.

A lot of people may have cared but she chose to do the drugs , refused to stop , and chose to hang herself. I can't blame anyone but me for the time I spent drinking my life away it was I who chose to stop. I have little pity for the woman. Her life is what she chose to make of it and when to end it.

Your wife talking again?

I too agree with this, yeah we got some beer once and awhile and maybe a half pint of Segrams between the five of us that were tight, but not drugs of any kind.

sorta sad, but in reality, just another life style choice gone awry. Life is full of choices.

Luck, that's some funny sheit, you must have been raised Baptist.

At least I was raised.

John

This young woman, for what ever reason felt the need to escape reality with heroin. Hanging herself was the ultimate escape from reality.
aajim

When we were young, opioids (heroin) were synonymous with needles and "dope". For the last 30 years, MD's have prescribed them as "medicine" for everything from a sore throat to a hangnail. Millions of Americans don't even know they're addicts. It's still a choice of course, but somewhere along the way, greed insured that those choices became less obvious.

What gets me with all the knowledge of where a "drug life" will lead , how is anyone stupid enough to get started in the first place ?

Yes. Some kids are drugged beginning at birth. Most addicts I know have a pretty good reason for using drugs to numb emotional pain in their lives. My heart really goes out for them, and I wouldn't wish an addiction on anybody.

Years ago a big doper I knew said, "if it's grandpa, it's 'medicine', but if it's some kid, it's dope,". He was right.

Usually is young people who have been the victim of sexual abuse, a dysfunctional home life, abusive parents, etc. People use drugs to change the way they feel.

i'ts BS to assume that someone taking prescription opioids is an addict, or is abusing the product.

I've found drug use doesn't usually cause a person to hit rock bottom.

It just gets them there faster.




Dave

I agree. The social problems to this massive addiction of opiates is a direct result of the tactics associated with the pharmaceutical industry as a whole. To pad not only their pockets, but the pockets of the lobbyist and law makers that regulate it.

We have revolving door style pain clinics all over just to keep the pills flowing into the population.

There are a lot of people in physical pain right now for a variety of reasons. Many of these drugs are keeping people up and going who would have been crippled to the point of uselessness years ago. The population is older now, with more aches and pains. Who knows where use stops and abuse begins?

I agree, which is why I'm surprised there isn't more empathy on the 'Fire for Syrian refugees and Muslims in general.

It wasn't their fault their country is a shiet hole. We are saving a bunch of them from hitting ROCK BOTTOM.

Is it a Muslim's fault that they were born Muslim, taught to hate infidels? I'm guessing a bunch of suicide bombers had also hit ROCK BOTTOM, just like this girl.

Just turned 50 this year, and like most people of that age, life has thrown some sh1t at me in that time. I am not afraid to say some of this was pretty scarring and certainly messed with my head...However, at no point did I ever think the solution was to stick a needle in my arm or start popping pills.

Folks are all different I guess, but I am sure glad I'd have the "self destruct" gene that so many seem to have...

Because of people who expound on this;



and the fact that we don't tell all of the truth when we are teaching our kids about drugs, namely, that they can make you feel really, really good. So, the lie of omission about the good feeling, makes it easy to think that the "rest of the story" about how bad addiction is, is also a lie. Not my logic, but that of a person emotionally stuck at about 12 years old.

I did not quote 700LH because he is wrong, but that he stated a reality that is used to help justify drug abuse. The other side of that coin is that millions have been, are, and millions more will be, addicted.

Drugs abuse is not a victimless crime, irrespective of the cries of the dopers.


Ed

That's true. But for every person that actually needs and benefits from them I bet there are five that just take them for symptoms that most would consider everyday common aches and pains.

The proliferation of prescribed anti depressants into our society are just as bad or worse.
I am a firm believer in capitalism, but as far as the pharmaceutical industry goes, profits have always trumped any long term side affects to our society as a whole imo.

And NO one is forcing the pills down their throat.

Who said they were?

Good post, Ed.

"I am a firm believer in capitalism, but as far as pharmaceutical industry goes, profits have always trumped any long term side affects to our society as a whole imo"


Gottcha, the above CLEARLY states it's the individual user.

I am sorry that a good man like Scott F was adversely affected by this...but Im pretty much in EdM's camp.
Thats one less junkie on the streets. I don't care what made her that way. I just care that the rest of society has to carry her burden, whether its for rehab attempts, or the crime associated with drug use, or both.

We'll send a few your way and you can show us how to make them disavow Islam and become assets to our society instead of security threats.

Are you that obtuse (rhetorical question)

Also, dipshiet, why don't you quote the WHOLE of that. My response was to another post that I quoted and it explains my response.

The hypocrites on the 'Fire are FUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNY

No, I've considered several points that you could be making, but all of them are stupid.

22 years old

there was alot of life left to live.

Apparently not

Not at all, but I guess it's just in my nature that when I see a dead possum in the road, to not somehow think it got run over by a car....



edited to add:....




I could suggest the same. Here is the whole paragraph as I
stated it....

Could be your kid. It happens in the blink of an eye.

That's actually a good point and something to ponder.

Sunday afternoon a good friend of my sons OD and died. He was 22 and came from a good family. Played sports and graduated from high school and had been attending college. Was having some drug and alcohol issues and had moved back home to get some help. It can happen to anyone anytime. What you don't think will harm you will grab you by the throat and not let you go until it has snuffed the life out of you.

Apparently, there wasn't. She didn't want there to be. but it was a choice she made, nobody else.

Maybe, but it takes a lot longer than the blink of an eye. By the time they get that far, they have adversely affected countless lives, and are no longer the person that their loved ones knew.

No, most of the bad junkies I saw weren't the abused, or from bad homes. They were the "poor me, I didn't get a trophy, my mommy and daddy will make any trouble I get into go away" "entitled" youth

We currently have a local issue with a young teacher who was finally suspended from her job after several heroine charges, her daddy is the super intend any of the district and has pulled strings in the district she works in... but this time she's out of her league, she was at a party with a guy who od'd in her presence and instead of calling help, just let him die.

I can feel bad for the girl in the OPS family, but I have no sympathy for drug addicts

Some of the comments here are sadly, a lot like reading the last page of a book and then writing a book report on the story.

My understanding is that the quality, e.g. strength of heroin available on American, Canadian, and European streets has NEVER been stronger, and that the stuff's never been cheaper.

"Free Trade Agreements" ....anybody ?

"Help the poor Afghani Farmers" ...anybody ?

too many letters made an IMPORTANT point,...and our entire approach to DARE needs to change, muy pronto.

GTC

Greg it isn't the strength or quality so much as what it's being cut with

Its kind of telling, when a man sees a lost puppy wondering the street most of us would stop and try and help it, yet when the lost one is a strangers child we turn a blind eye.

How do you props we help those that don't want help?

I hear now that these idiots have found out how to make fantanyl (sp?) at home, much like meth.

Fantanyl
High risk for addiction and dependence. Can cause respiratory distress and death when taken in high doses or when combined with other substances, especially alcohol

I really don't know, but ignoring them, usually ends the same for the puppy and the child.

No,.....

The POINT is is that it's not being "cut" with milk powder it's PURER in quality / STRONGER.

ODs are right through the roof, in consequence.

GTC

And that will steal from you the minute you turn your head?

I have a bottle of hydrocodone sitting over there in the cabinet right now, a prescription from some dental work I had done last week. I took one. Nothing but ibuprofin since day 1.

I have things in my life I could hide from, pressures, situations, like anybody. BUT, like most or all of you, I've weeded out any craziness that would drive me to "need" an escape to the point I would depend on drugs. Although I do drink occasionally for that purpose, so I'm being hypocritical I guess.

The bottom line, we've all made "good" choices, many of them, to stay off drugs. Every single time life got crazy, we said no to drug addiction as a solution. I didn't say use, I said addiction. Using drugs or alcohol occasionally probably won't ruin anyone's life. But the CHOICE to become addicted probably will. You choose when you use, each time one decision at a time, therefore you choose addiction.

Still sad.

Our government made sure that the poppy fields were the first cultivated crops to get up and running after our yuge win in Afghanistan.

Scott F, You're a good man and good men get no joy or satisfaction from the misfortune of others. I hate to see the damage done to otherwise good sons and daughters, brothers and friends, mothers and fathers.

Modern Pharma is a lot of blame lies. Virtually all the heroin tested recently had been cut with Fentanyl, thereby increasing its potency dramatically.

I believe the smart money lays on preventing these addictions before they begin, as this addiction seems to be a formidable one, much like the long term effects of alcoholism certain death does not seem to be a deterrent.

Another angle is to prevent the opium from getting into our country, and the easiest way is to destroy it where its grown, and thats Afghanistan, of course we all know that thats not going to happen.

Heroin is a big money maker for our government and an impetus for further restrictions on freedom. The 2 things our government loves.

Well, in the first case, Big Pharma ain't the source of illegal fentanyl. It's being manufactured in illegal labs both here in the USA and moreso in Mexico. DEA shut down a big lab in Toluca recently.

Fentanyl is really easy to make. A kid with a course in Organic Chemistry under his belt can make it. The instructions are available on the internet, which I was surprised to see:

http://www.opioids.com/fentanyl/synthesis.html

In the second case, I'm not sure that "most" of the street heroin is being cut with fentanyl. Some is, but it ain't "most".

At onetime she was not a useless POS, She was someone's daughter, maybe someone's sister.

At onetime she was a vibrant human being with dreams, loves, hopes, fears until she made the fatal mistake of drugs, you know the victimless crime........

It's sad on many levels but not unexpected of one that has decided to do drugs. I expect one day my wife and I will get a phone call telling of my BIL's funeral.

There is no way she was in her right mind at the time.

Damn addiction of any kind.

To a few regulars here, I suspect 24hrCF is an addiction, escape, drug that they are helpless against not using.

That little squirt of serotonin that floods your brain every time you start, click or respond to a thread muffles the harping cries of family that is being deprived of domestic support.

"There but for the grace of God, go I."

Indeed.

true dat. One of the wife's nephews OD on Heroin last fall. That was just the end game though, for a life of drug abuse. Started with weed, went on from there. Could not hold a job, could not hold his family, could not stay alive.
He screwed up his life, his parent's lives, his children's lives, the lives of his friends...................

Weed is not a gateway drug, I've heard over and over. You must have that story confused somehow.

You know this how?

The Mexican Cartels figured out a couple of decades ago how to cultivate opium poppies to supplement their cocaine and pot sales and expand their reach.

The Chinese are making synthetic Fentanyl by the boatload as well as supplying the Cartels with raw materials to not only make Fentanyl, but meth, too.

I think what folks are seeing so far as the heroin "cut" with Fentanyl is "White Heroin" which is simply diluted Fentanyl. A "cut" is a dilutant, such as Malitol, something to increase the bulk of a substance, to dilute, or "cut" it's purity.

One doesn't "cut" Heroin with Fentanyl. That would be like cutting beer with Everclear.

Folks should realize that most dope dealers source their drugs from whoever they can get them from which doesn't exactly lend itself to a lot of purity control. This is why so many longtime addicts overdose.

They may as well pick up a dog turd and shove it in their body. At least they know what they are getting.

Ed

Lot of generalities thrown about. It is easy to do, but the fact is, not all drugs or drug users are the same.

Some folks are broken before they start using drugs and some aren't. Some may dabble and leave it, others quickly fall down the rabbit hole of addiction. People are all wired differently, and you can do much to alter that wiring.

There are a lot of addicts that if you had sat them down before they started on a path of drug abuse and explained to them that they will soon trade their friends, families, their very lives...all for a filthy and desperate existence, only looking for their next high, they would of thought you were batschit crazy.

The thing is, they become batschit crazy. That is what drugs and addiction does. The people they were are destroyed.


I feel for them and their families. I root for them to pull themselves out of they hole they made.

I also despise the filthy bastids.

When you are young it just does not compute in a meaningful way but when you get to "our" age and have been in some ditches yourself, it is incredibly sad that she had no resources, or thought not, to draw on to lift her up.

Just because it isn't THE gateway drug doesn't mean it wasn't the path for that young man.

Alcohol is probably the King of all "gateway drugs".

Ed

Nobody in their right mind terminates their own life.

And that is the singular most important hurdle for most addicts to overcome.

Was she in her "right mind"? Not if she was even remotely contemplating suicide,much less accomplishing it.

Sad? Absolutely. Could someone have done anything about her addiction and mental illness? Only she could, and now she's gone.

I don't loathe addicts, nor do I mourn for them. They made a conscious decision to travel down a road that leads to more pain than they were escaping.

I feel for the ones who surround their lives for they are also victims of someone else's poor choices.

Ed

We recently acquired a property in town that has been empty for some years. There is a courtyard that is a magnet for bums and drug addicts.

Filthy SOB's leave needles everywhere. Schit and piss all over the place.

I chained a big trash can to the wall thinking it at least would help with some litter and they would maybe throw there needles in it.

Hell no. After a week or so, I bet there were 20+ needles lying within a 20' radius of the can and hardly any in it. I know you're fugged up on smack and all, but damn! The can is huge and right there! Lol.

I am not offended in any way from Ed's post. He stated his mind and at times I have felt the same way he does. And he was not only lucky with his own family I would be willing to bet he and his wife both worked hard to raise their children the right way and that counts for a lot.

I do not know what sent this young woman down the path to the bottom. Perhaps her parents did the best they could too and she still went the wrong way. Perhaps she had no parenting.

Looking back I keep wondering what bight have happened if I crossed the street to speak with her, maybe get something for her to eat. Probable no difference in the long run but I will always wonder because I have three daughters.

Alcohol and tobacco without a doubt.

We are a strange sort of beings, there are so many ways in which we kill our selves, for some its fast cars, for others its sky diving, while still others choose drugs or alcohol, still I don't believe any of them plan on killing them selves, its just the love of some thing that they can't seem to stop doing.
The uncontrollable urge to destroy their lives.
It is sad in so many ways, to loose the young before they become as smart and judgmental as the rest of us.

I didn't realize fentanyl was easy to synthesize and that the recipe was available on the 'net-I should have known as it is a synthetic narcotic not a naturally grown one like morphine for example. And it is very potent.

I can say to all the readers here that as one who has given gallons of the stuff IV in the process of giving anesthesia for which it was designed it is a wonderful drug...when used appropriately and for that purpose. But I have seen its dangerous side too.

It is a highly dangerous drug when abused under the usual solitary circumstances even killing anesthesia providers who know all the technical details of the drug. Spin-offs since fentanyl was introduced are sufentanil and alfentanil, the latter probably not attracting abuse because it's profile is one of an ultra-short acting narcotic designed for same day surgery anesthesia.

Both fentanyl and sufentanil particularly can cause the "frozen chest" syndrome when either given to fast or in too large a dose. This is generally not a problem in the OR under the controlled conditions of the anesthesia provider, but if self-administered in closet or a vehicle in an alley somewhere, it means respiratory depression or failure, unconsciousness and death.

Ed, we were seeing pure black that had had dental added to it. What we found out was that dealers were randomly adding dental to product to purposefully kill a customer here and there. Their realasoning was that the word of the deaths would get around to the other junkies and they would scramble to that particular dealers "brand" after hearing the deaths figuring the product and high would be much better, not realizing it was spiked.

Sadly Scott, Death is the only thing waiting at the end of the line for these people...not biological death, its a death they are accelerating to get to...

They live a life of misery and then they die...

I've spent a life time feeling pity for these people... but in actuality, there is nothing any of us can do for them...
They have to do it themselves, and most have not the ability to grab the motivation to do so...

I use to feel sad when one lost their lives.. but then somewhere that wore out, and I came to the realization they really lost their lives when they picked up the addiction.
Their demise was just a matter of time.

I quit caring....I gave up on caring about them caring about themselves.

An example I'll recall and share,

Saw a young gal walking down the street in downtown Seattle, on a rainy winter day. She was barefooted and had no shoes, crappy looking jeans, a ragged top and no coat.

I stopped my truck and since I had some stuff I was going to take to good will, I gave her a pair of socks, shoes, a sweatshirt with a hood on it.... She put them on...and thanked me..

I went on up the road...

1/2 an hour later, I was heading back down it returning from where I had gone. I stop at a red light, and there in a doorway was the same girl, bare footed, no coat... busy shooting up...

just came to conclusion, she traded off what I had given her and somehow got enough to be able to shoot up and get high again...

She was in her early 20s... I'm sure she didn't last long afterwards...if she didn't overdose, she was killed by one of the other junkies, or pneumonia got her...

Sadly overdosing is the best thing they can do for society...and legalizing drugs isn't doing society a favor at all... to include DOPE or marijuana...

Don't. Nothing you could have done would have done anything other than slightly delay it.

My wife deals a lot with addicts and people that have otherwise f'd up lives. It didn't take me long to realize that no matter how many programs that are available, ultimately the individual needs to decide to turn their life around.

Maybe she got tired of people hitting her bottom?

How so George - handling, secondary contact?

You could be right, but there is a chance, there are people that successfully quit drugs, just as there are those who have successfully quit drinking, you don't hear so much about them as its not as news worthy as a young girl hanging from a tree.
Scott, I don't envy you, as I don't want to think that maybe I could of helped.

Well, I think we have to have compassion. If we lose that trait, we lose civilization.

People do get hooked on opiates, but does that mean they don't 'deserve' to live?

What a phugged up point of view.

Yes, there are some that do it, but the only ones that I ever saw that were successful with it did it on their own.

I've seen the same tactic used over the years by dealers who were selling pure opium as "black tar" as it is 1/10 the cost of Heroin. They would add Heroin to their "tar" to achieve the same goal.

If you crush aspirin, or as Hmong/Maio and Mien/Yao smugglers do with Excedrin, and add it to pure opium, the salicylic acid converts some of the opium to diacetyl morphine, which is heroin. When a cop field tests the "tar" it shows up an a opioid and will even show up as heroin in some of the very specific field tests. Send it to the Crime Lab and have it run past a Ramen Spectrometer and Gas Chromatograph/Mass Spectrometer, and it will specify opium and a small amount of diacetyl morphine.

Most street cops will misidentify opium as "tar" because they are not looking for that tell-tale vinegar/acetic acid odor from true "tar".

Amazing what some folks will stoop to in order to get a leg up on the competition. Reminds me of politics...

Ed

Long story short...couldnt find ANY statistics on this but whilst working on a thesis I needed to know the incidence of marijuana being found in the company ( same venue or vehicle) as the hard narcotics.
Had to poll all the cops I know-which was a bunch- in five different states. The consensus was well over 60% of the time when hard drugs were found, marijuana was present.
Coincidence? I think not.



Make of it what you will.

Of the marijuana users I've known over the years who used it regularly on a daily basis, all eventually went on to use other drugs as well-- hash, LSD, pills (pain/uppers/downers), cocaine, heroin, meth, etc. At least two (that I know of) died from AIDs contracted from shared needles.

As always, YMMV.

Doc, Based upon a local study I read recently more than 70% of the heroin tested showed it had been cut with fentanyl. As to Pharma not having to shoulder any of the blame; laughable. The over prescription of opioids has been and continues to be a major gateway to heroin use.

Synthetic drugs can be manufactured easily in basement labs and foreign suppliers. That doesn't mean that's what's happening in a majority of the cases. Fentanyl is being sold, traded and stolen regularly. The federal government is the biggest drug dealer in existence. They make the cartels look like rookies and Boy Scouts.

So was the chick that walked into a market with dynamite strapped to her.

"all" is the operative word here....

Perhaps not every 14 year old that tortures and kills a neighborhood cat ain't gonna become a psychopath killer, but I ain't gonna hitch a ride with him.

Remember when a typical addict starts his or her path to addiction, they are not just inflicting consequences of that life choice on themselves, but also on their family and friends...Effectively, they would not do it if they had any regard for their loved ones...

Thanks Ed. That's a better answer than I hacked out in a hurry this morning. You made my point for me, and better, too.

A&N... that's interesting about your local study, but I doubt that it's nationwide, for the simple reasons Ed identified. If the Chinese and Messicans are making fentanyl in quantity, and it's cheaper than heroin, then they'll sell fentanyl to the junkies and call it heroin. Way cheaper than stealing legitimately manufactured drug.

As for Big Pharma, I'll leave that argument alone. I have no love for the pharmaceutical corporations' activities, but it's a far cry from being greedy bastards to actively promoting addiction. If you want to believe that, then go ahead. I ain't gonna change your mind here on the 24HCF. I just know that nearly all prescribing physicians hate addiction, hate being taken advantage of by patients scamming them for narcotics, and want nothing to do with the whole mess even though we're stuck square in the middle of it.

Even the surgeon general came out in a recent address saying that docs are bearing a disproportionate share of the blame for this problem, and it's causing severe harm to the entire healthcare system as doctors are quitting and retiring under the pressure faster than we can make new ones in medical schools. I for one look forward to the day that I am no longer able to prescribe pain medicines.

No kidding, why do you think I'm waiting for "The" phone call? I have spent a lot of time holding my wife while she was crying over some dumb schit her brother pulled or said. Several years ago she came to the realization that her brother would die from his drug use and there was nothing she could do about it.

She has nothing to do with him anymore because she is tired of all the bullschit but it still doesn't make it any easier waiting for the call.

Paul, I'm dealing with much the same with my sister. I've resolved that I'm going to get a call one day saying they found her body in a ditch...at this point, I'm ok with it

My best friend got involved with drugs when we were in our early 20's Eventually I told him to just stay the hell away from me.....
With all the luck in the world, he met and married an angel of a woman who successfully pulled him out of it.
We re-established our long friendship and spent a few more great years together.

Until one night, when he was 44, his wife called me, crying....he had a heart attack and dropped stone dead.


Too much cocaine on his system earlier in life contributed greatly.



It is the greatest sadness in my life.





And I have had a personal vendetta against drugs ever since.


It still stings like hell.

Family can be cull too. I wish my sister had listened to me.


I don't give a flying f(ck about those that don't care about themselves.

We've all been in, are in, or are only one step or decision away from a bad mess...physically, mentally, emotionally and/or spiritually.

Just like the one bad cop making the good cops look bad. I do believe there is a certain percentage of bad doctors out there as I've ran across a couple. Before I had my back surgery the first doctor I went to tried his damnedest to get me on drugs for the pain and shots in my spine, he threw a fit because I told him I had no use for drugs or a temporary solution to my problem and surgery was my only interest, after he was done with his hissy fit he said he would refer me to the surgeon.

Long story short I had the surgery by a totally different office and am still able to work and carry on a normal life, if I would have taken the other route I would not have been able to work and would have been dependent on drugs and the welfare system.

I wonder how many in my like situation have taken the other route.



I bet you do, I've heard retirement ain't underrated in the least.

I feel for you John, not easy letting go of your sister. Certainly does suck when family puts you in a position where you have to do things like this.

I wish your sister would have listed too, your story is one I think of often.

Well that sucks, never understood giving up, I identify a problem, eliminate it and go on, although, I was never stupid enough to do drugs.

Doc, As always your input and experience is an invaluable asset here and appreciated. I agree with you that most doctors hate addiction and are definitely sharing a disproportionate amount of blame. However in the recent past there were a lot more of them that were directly responsible for over prescribing opioids. "Doctor shopping" has been curtailed and pharmacies have become more actively involved in the checks and balances of ensuring compliance and reducing redundant prescriptions.

I'm in southern Louisiana now or I'd look for the study. In any case I'm going swimming now with my son before us PNW boys melt.

PS...You and a few other men on here carry a lot of weight in my book, enough that I've definitely thought thrice about positions based upon your input. All my best.

Mexicans cartels started flooding the US about 5 years with very cheap heroin. This was after our govt started cracking down on the overuse of pain prescriptions (oxy)


They saw a very good market in the US and capitalized on it.

I am glad that worked for you, but what do you do when you have been both routes and the pain is still there? miles

This is quite a thread.

Scott F's jolting experience and sensitive afterthoughts resulted in the sharing of a lot of expert information; differing points of view regarding addicts, their addiction and the way out of it; revelation of many difficult and even heartbreaking experiences with loved ones and friends, and a lot of sensitive expressions by caring guys. This stuff may be some of the best of the Campfire.

As an aside, one can't help but contrast this thread with the recent and distasteful April Fool scheme that uselessly and indecently sucked in some of the same genuinely caring folks here.

Thanks, Scott, and all who have tried to add perspective and maybe positives to a dreadful matter.

I know where I'd be eating a soft-shell crab Po-boy if I was where you are.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/drugs-abuse/emerging-trends-alerts

Then you have two choices, live with the pain or use the drugs. I would not look down on either choice in that case. Too often I think that people take the easy way out as surgery sure the hell ain't the easy route, there are a couple here who know what I went through but I would do it again in a heartbeat if need be.

I have a friend who's daughter was suckered into the drug route, she had been on pain killers and welfare for 12 years and now wants to get her life back and have the surgery. She is tired of being an addict and wants a normal life again, the girl has a long road ahead of her and I hope she makes it.

I'm skeered of the day when something don't hurt.

Given some of the reactions here, I must be one of the few that feels damn lucky I survived some of my really poor choices I made in my late teens and early twenties.

Glad I never chose to stick a needle in my arm. But did everything but.

talk to someone with spinal stenosis, bulged/herniated discs in their back about it.
I drank a lot 30 years ago, stoppped with no issue cold turkey. I think i have a low suseptibility to addiction.

sitting here thinking of this, and i can think of two young men around the same age that drugs/alcohol did them in.
neither were street urchins.

Just got done with a big mess of crawfish but I'll be here for a week and appreciate any tips.

greg
i have been told due to the low cost, heroin is the drug of choice up in central arizona these days. And i just found out from a neighbor a guy down the street from me, gang activity, selling heroin.

Interesting thread, and more proof the drug war is long since lost.

With all the brilliant minds in the free world can't some one come up with a better idea, or is there just to much money involved?

The root of all evil...

That's the operative word hereabouts, too, Ron.

....and I don't get my advisories from the internet or tabloids, either.

I tossed a ball out on the court regarding the FBI basically TAKING over the USCBP / Border Patrol, last week.

Talk about something that CLEARLY effects what we've come to call "traffic" through our regaion.

Guess nobody's up for putting THAT ball into play, though...sigh.

The buzzwords chosen call out, "Ending Abuses".

GTC

Why do people always claim druggies got that way by dealing with pain (emotional etc)? Some people just like to party and get sucked in. Every loser druggie I've ever known had a give a schit attitude early on, and loved to try new drugs.

As I remember you sister was quitting. That make the whole thing even sadder.

I know a woman who was on the streets living for meth. One day called her dad and asked to come home. He hung up the phone and went to get her. Today, ten years or more later she is still clean but she admits it is an everyday fight. I can be done but they have to want to.

Add, no, for its propensity to cause immediate respiratory depression or failure as in the "frozen chest" syndrome even with relatively small doses.

I have seen a nurse who did not have sufficient knowledge of the drug push 1 cc (50 ug) IV to an elderly patient in the PACU post-op for pain relief. A code blue was called and in just moments I found the patient unresponsive and in respiratory failure. This is a drug you administer in fractions of a cc or doses of 15-25 ug at a time depending on the patients age and condition. In a solitary, abusing situation this would result in death or brain damage if not.

I personally know of one case of an anesthesia provider found dead with a syringe of fentanyl; while the person may be an expert in the pharmacology of the drug he/she doesn't know how they will react to it. The respiratory failure is accompanied by momentary unconsciousness so you are not aware to will yourself to breath. As C02 builds up in addition one becomes hyperbaric (too much C02 in the blood causing acidosis) also which itself is a cascading, deleterious event unless reversed.

Serious stuff.

Edit to add: if the stuff is synthesized for the street who knows what the strength or potency would be.

That's because it was never fought as a war.

If it was truly a war on drugs, the enemy would be identified, and we would use our military to systematically kill and destroy the enemy.

Anything less is a clusterphuque.

Shoot your local heroin dealer, Brother of a kid that OD'd and died here killed the sonnova bitch that sold his little brother heroin, got away with it too.

Good. Should be more of this.

I grew up the son of dual alcoholic parents that divorced when I was 14 years old.

I lived with my dad and my 3 other brothers and watched him die of lung cancer and alcoholism.

I lived in shame as the electricity was turned off, food in the refrigerator rotted and gave birth to big fat maggots, and the phone ringing off the hook from bill collectors.

I remember my dad's boss asking me for his keys to the business, because he didn't have the balls to confront him personally.

My brothers moved in with me because I was all they had.

I learned personal responsibility the hard way.
Those life experiences taught me a tough as nails work ethic.
My life sinks or swims based on my job performance every single day.

Not much sympathy here for those that cry for handouts and leech off of society due to bad life choices...

Hate to hear stories like this. Sometimes people just need somebody to reach out to but nobody is there. I'm no stranger to drugs and suicide runs in my family so this kind of thing isn't that big a mystery to me. But it tears at the heartstrings because I understand it.

Seriously?

I really don't know why so many are getting addicted to drugs these days, but I suspect the earlier mentions of prescription drugs being so common and being given so early is part of the issue. Kids being given drugs to modify their behavior might be more susceptible to trying other drugs to help them feel better later?

I also wonder if all the safety nets we put in place could be part of the problem. There is almost always some sort of program paid for by taxpayers or else charitable donations to help people with problems of their own creation. Perhaps in their attempt to be compassionate and caring, people are making things worse. Perhaps if there wasn't always a shelter to go to, a soup kitchen to eat at and a rehab to check into, the reality of drug addiction would be a little more raw and obvious to those who are dabbling. Kind of like a lack of welfare and government assistance might be motivating factor in people to actually work if they want to eat.

When you take all the sharp edges off the world, via government, I think some people go to extremes for a little danger.

I didn't read 15 pages.

We don't know what led to the addiction, it's possible she just started shooting last week. Heavy drugs and alcohol may not be the original source of her pain.

We can't choose our parents. Selfish people tend to attract selfish partners and sociopaths breed.

ya see it enough.. its easy to feel that way...

they don't care, then don't even really care, when everyone else tries to care for them...

They don't care if they live or die, they just live from high to high...so what does it do for them to rip your heart out feeling sorry for them...

hate to sound like that, but facts are facts...

It is not that difficult...kill every dealer/importer, same as any that want to use terrorism as a weapon.

Sooner or later there will be fewer, but until we get past the touchy-feely do-good crap that keeps getting in the way nothing will change.

Pooh-pooh this all you want, but anyone that puts themselves outside the law also puts themselves outside the protection of the law...and they are free game for all law abiding citizens.

And there are so many A-holes in this world that will still tell kids that heroin (et al) is "cool", but smoking cigarettes is bad or tht working hard blue collar jobs is "uncool."

Some kids do not have much of a chance; even less if they are "hip" but stupid.

In our case JSTUART, it would also help enormously if the Govt. wasn't in the drug business. They've been funding black ops with it since the Revolutionary War. They have a vested interest in keeping dope on the streets.

In more ways than one Ingwe, and the solution still seems appropriate.

Thanks for the kind words, truly.

And thanks for noting that there are a lot of dirtbag doctors out there who are NOT like the majority of us, who profit from drug trafficking. I'm sorry to say there's more than a few of them. The Texas Medical Board publishes its disciplinary records every month, and there's invariable a dozen or more docs being censured, suspended, or revoked for crossing that line.

But for every doc who deliberately crosses the line, there are 20 who get scammed by patients or even their own staff members. A doc I know that works out here had a young gal he hired (who, as it turned out, was planted there by her boyfriend, a higher-up in the local drug-dealing motorcycle gang) scam tens of thousands of tablets of hydrocodone using his prescription forms in a matter of weeks. It happens all the time.

Doc;
Top of the morning to you sir, I hope this finds you all doing acceptably well.

As you well know, here in BC we're the beginning to the national pipeline for much of the illicit drug trade - certainly most of what's coming in from Asia.

We've had - as of the 3rd week of April this year, over 200 fentanyl deaths in this province. That's just fentanyl.....

While some were hard core users, some were "experimenters" who bought something other than they thought they were and learned the hard way about variable supply chain issues on the street.

Anyway sir, work beckons and go I must, so perhaps we'll discuss some possible fixes another day. It's here in very rural BC and it's a problem for sure and certain.

All the best to you all Doc.

Dwayne

Dwayne, the Lower Mainland has always been rife with heroin addiction and drug trafficking, but I've heard it's now a lot more widespread. Sad. One of the things I always liked about the southern Okanagan was is low-crime low-drug vibe.

That's exactly right. If you killed all the dealers there would be no elected officials left at the Federal level.

F ck me, we are in trouble if this isn't shut down.

Wiki

People think that just because a drug is approved by the government that it's safe, but that is not always the case. My experience has been if it's approved, Doctors just go with it. I don't blame them because being approved is not 100% indicative of safety and you learn stuff later on, many times, the hard way. There is also the fact that Doctors are human and are as prone to being scammed as anybody, maybe moreso, because they are busier than many people with less time to study certain drugs.

Doctors have to weigh a lot of issues when they prescribe a drug. Just look at all the side effects of almost all drugs advertised on the TV. When you take a drug, the doc has weighed the potential good outcomes vs. the bad. You take a new Diabetes drug and the doc feels it has a 90% chance of lowering your blood sugar whereas there is say, a 2% chance of giving you some sort of cancer. Sooner or later the 2% actually kicks in. If enough people get the cancer or seem to have due to the drug, class action lawsuits, etc. start up. The drug and those who prescribed it, look bad, but for every 2 people that MAY have gotten cancer due to it, 90 people had their blood sugar lowered and were saved from losing sight, limbs and possibly life by the drug.

You pay your money and take your chances.

You wouldn't say that if you'd ever experienced real pain. I mean physical pain to the extent that you thought death would be preferable.

Oh, are you suggesting that the illicit trade in this crap should continue because your arse is on fire?

There' been a trend in EMS circles to use fentanyl as their first-line IV pain med. I was a supporter of this at first, but no longer. We have seen numerous reports of this rapid respiratory depression too many times.

Also, subjectively it just isn't as good a pain reliever as morphine. Don't know why, but we get a lot more people with uncontrolled pain off our ambulance runs lately.



I was real interested in anesthesia when I was in med school, and took several electives to try it out before making residency choices. One doc I really admired. He seemed to be the epitome of what an anesthesiologist should be... he knew his biochemistry and pharmacology, had great technique, etc. Then one day he got found damn near dead in the locker room john with a syringe in his foot. He went through the 6 months of rehab in Atlanta, but his example made me rethink my career path choice. I ended up in the ER, and I heard a few years later he OD'd again but this time he never woke up.



Exactly.

Seems like I never will be able to helpfully understand or explain why certain people start to use the stuff and so easily become addicts - so am not claiming useful expertise here. But, an observation.

The more widespread and reportedy growing use of hard drugs and resulting addiciton seems to parallel a very real diminishment of personal ambition and lessened acceptance of personal responsibility in this culture.

There was a time not too long ago when any guy and his wife that did not try to work steadily, provide safety, the basics, and a solid home for their family, and try to train their kids to be decent citizens - would have been way off the norm and a case for concern. Such conditions seem way too common today and the concern seems distant.

We can point to many factors that may have affected such decline, and note the negative role of abusive government operatives (folks we have elected and have ignored or even supported). However, one aspect glaring at me is the widespread attitude of entitlement and willingness to take whatever one can get free from others while excerising little or no sense of personal pride of accomplishment or acceptance of personal responsibility for one's condition and the future. This feels really poor.

The seemingly obvious outcome for a lot of people is a greatly diminished sense of personal worth, lack of hope for a better future, and a desire to escape such realities. The degredation of human values seems to be the driver in my eyes, and it looks like the hard drugs are a cheap and easy way to escape that reality - at least temporarily - and until one overdoes it or deliberately checks out.

How does one best advocate and teach toward individual reponsibility and personal strength, on a broad base? Looks like we need a big dose. Be strong.

Good observations. Me personally, I gave up trying to make other people (those close to me) do or even see ANYTHING. It's like the whole world is going blind.

By completely doing away with ANY form of welfare for ANY able bodied person in this country.

There are any number of people here that are good responsible citizens that put into the community, and we do have welfare.

Mind you...there are any number of people here that seem to think 'safety net' means 'career choice'.


I do also note that an awful lot of 'new Australians' (of any colour) fall into the latter category, not the ones from western countries, the other bastards.

My ass is on fire? lol

When I said you pay your money and take your chances, I meant with a real Doctor. I don't have anything to do with illegal drugs. With legal, FDA approved meds there is still a large enough risk...hence what I said. I don't even smoke dope, which is legal in many places. No offense to those who do for health reasons, but I've always avoided even over-the-counter or prescription drugs simply because I thought that was the healthy thing to do. Hydracodone and some others are wonderful things if you are really in pain, and I have been before and when I was I took what was prescribed by my MD in the smallest doses that would do the job. Then I quit taking the stuff once the pain subsided. The only thing I take currently is one pill per day for Diabetes.

One does not need booze nor drugs to hit rock bottom.

When were talking Opiates, you only have to try it once to be a fiendy, anyone who has tried Heroin will tell you the same, you can be addicted after trying it once.

If Heroin was free and available to everyone, then its certain most of the world would be users, and if you dont think so then your comments here are simply... speculation and not based on any real experience.

Thread reminded me of a sad happenstance in a local newspaper here.

Guy in his forties was the only care-giver for his wife with MS, comes home and grown son is loafing around the house again doing nothing. Guy complains bitterly that he has to do everything. In the past he had reportedly asked social agencies for assistance but apparently wasn't eligible for whatever reasons.

Comes home, gets in a argument with his wife and son, leaves as he apparently often did to "cool off". Except this time he went out and hung himself.

Wife and son report him missing two days later when it became apparent he wasn't coming home, cops find the body.

No one ever sees their life turning out like that.

Birdwatcher

Guy here at work just lost his son - he wasn't a Useless POS - just screwed up from dope.

All I'll say to some of you guys is, if you've never had someone close to you become addicted to opiates and end up in the hospital or dead from an OD, accidental or otherwise, just give it time. It knows no boundaries and I've seen some great people lose the battle following what was to be mundane surgery or after suffering a serious injury or accident; people who had lived completely normal lives until that turning point.

And as has been pointed out, not every drug dealer is hussling on street corners or in back alleys, some wear white coats and have nice offices.

This just came in an email I received today;

LINK

Yesterday at 1:21 PM

By Jim Salter
Associated Press

ST. LOUIS — The street version of fentanyl blamed in the deaths of thousands of Americans is also threatening police officers, forcing changes in long-standing basics of drug investigations, from confiscations to testing and undercover operations, law enforcement officials say.

Overdose deaths have surged as drugs such as heroin, cocaine and counterfeit prescription pills are now commonly laced with fentanyl to increase potency, though drug investigators say it is increasingly sold by itself, too. A speck the size of a few grains of salt can potentially kill a 250-pound (113-kilogram) man, said Tommy Farmer, special agent in charge of the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation.
This undated photo provided by the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation shows fake Oxycodone pills that are actually fentanyl. (Tommy Farmer/Tennessee Bureau of Investigation via AP)
This undated photo provided by the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation shows fake Oxycodone pills that are actually fentanyl. (Tommy Farmer/Tennessee Bureau of Investigation via AP)
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Fentanyl can be absorbed through the skin or inhaled if it becomes airborne. Because such a small amount can be deadly, police agencies big and small are changing the way they go about keeping officers safe. James Shroba, special agent in charge of the Drug Enforcement Administration's office in St. Louis, said agents are even trained in how to give themselves the anti-overdose Narcan in case of accidental exposure to fentanyl because "if they actually touch it or inhale it, they could die."

"This is a whole different dynamic of how we process evidence," Shroba said.

Fentanyl, a synthetic opiate, can be legally used, typically in a patch, by those in severe pain, such as end-stage cancer patients. The street version, which is mostly made in China or Mexico, comes in various forms — tablets, patches, powder, spray. The DEA says it is 40 to 50 times more potent than heroin. Experts say its potency can vary because it is haphazardly manufactured, creating the risk of instant death. Music legend Prince died of a fentanyl overdose in April, though authorities are still investigating whether it was obtained legally or illegally.

Fentanyl and other synthetic opioids were involved in 5,554 overdose deaths in 2014, a 79 percent increase over 2013, according to U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data. Statistics for 2015 and 2016 aren't available, but narcotics officers say the problem is getting worse.

The danger extends beyond the user. The potency makes it potentially deadly for first-responders. No police deaths have been blamed on fentanyl, but there have been close calls.

Atlantic County, New Jersey, detective Dan Kallen and colleagues were searching a home in August when they found a box full of drug paraphernalia, along with a bag of white powder. Kallen and detective Eric Price opened the bag and performed a field test to determine what it was. A small amount became airborne as Kallen closed up the bag, he said.

Suddenly, both detectives became ill.

"It hit us like a ton of bricks," Kallen, 40, said. "It became very difficult to breathe. Our hearts were racing. We were nauseous, close to blacking out.

"I felt like, 'Holy crap, I'm going to die right now,'" Kallen said.

Both detectives were rushed to the hospital and made full recoveries. Testing later showed the confiscated drugs were cocaine and heroin mixed with fentanyl.

"We got the party platter," Kallen said.

Fighting the drug trade is inherently dangerous. In addition to the threat of violence posed by drug lords, distributors and dealers, narcotics officers face risks such as inadvertent needle pricks and exposure to deadly chemicals and fires from methamphetamine production.

Fentanyl is a game-changer, though, many leading law enforcement officials told The Associated Press.

"We definitely see it as the next big danger," Farmer said. "With fentanyl, if the officer is simply patting somebody down, or if he's getting a little bit out to try to do a field test and it accidentally comes in contact with his skin or the wind blows it in his face, he could have a serious problem."

The DEA issued a memo this month urging police to use caution from the outset of a stop. Officers should wear protective gloves before reaching into a suspect's pockets in order to avoid skin contact with loose fentanyl, and wear masks to protect their lungs in case it becomes airborne. The DEA discouraged field testing of drugs, saying confiscated materials should be sent straight to a lab.

The drug is also affecting undercover work, which is the basis of many investigations.

Lt. Jason Grellner of the Franklin County (Missouri) Sheriff's Department said undercover officers are being told to accept drugs in baggies or aluminum foil, not directly by hand.

"Any number of things can occur and kill you," said Grellner, who is also the president of the Missouri Narcotics Officers Association.

Sgt. Mike Toles, of the Indiana State Police, agreed.

"We're telling our people, 'If someone is telling you this is methamphetamine or heroin, don't take their word for it. Assume it is fentanyl," Toles said.

The DEA keeps Narcan at the ready during undercover operations, with officers monitoring from afar ready to assist the undercover officer in case of exposure, Shroba said.

The concerns extend to police dogs, which can be imperiled if they get too big a whiff of fentanyl. The DEA memo urges handlers to be careful with their dogs.

"They're going to take in a larger dose because that's how they're trained to sniff it out," Shroba said.

Kallen, who has been a detective for 15 years, said his encounter forever changed the way he does his job.

A majority of our stuff has fentanyl in it," Kallen said. "We don't even field test. It's not worth it to open up those bags and put that stuff in the air or get it on your skin."

Copyright 2016 The Associated Press

And I thought going into meth labs was bad...

Ed

Holy Fook. It's time for me to retire again.

Ed;
Thanks for the sobering article sir, I appreciate you taking the time to do so.

This subject is a tad tough to weigh in on without sounding alarmist - but it's BAD, BAD stuff.

As noted, it's even in our relatively sleepy area of rural BC. This bust was less than an hour up the valley from us.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/fentanyl-lab-bust-west-kelowna-1.3482874

Anyway sir, to all current serving LEO out there, please keep an extra sharp eye out there. My friends in that line of work up here surely are.

All the best to you and yours this summer Ed.

Dwayne

And there are a few SOBs who will give it away to create an income stream out of your daughters.

Be careful, vigilant, loving, and hard. You will still need to be lucky as a parent.

When black tar heroin was relatively new on the main-street drug scene, dealers were telling high school kids that if they smoked it mixed in their cigarettes they wouldn't become addicted.
Just do a Google search on Plano Texas and their heroin problem. Un-frickin-believable how many middle/upper class kids became heroin addicts.

Add in "Skittle Parties" where kids bring whatever drugs they can buy, beg, or steal, prescription or street drugs, throw it all into a big bowl, and grab a handful to ingest.

Dumbasses all.

Ed

Which is reason 9,023,672 to only care about yourself.


WINNING,
Dave

That Darwin fella had some valid points.



Clark

Holy Organized Crime, Batman!

EIGHT kilos of powdered Fentanyl and TWO pill presses? That's not your everyday dealer. These guys have a direct line to the actual lab. I smell Cartel.

Dwayne, it's always good to see you post and I'm very sorry to hear that this mess is in your neighborhood at this level. These kinds of places are subject to rip-offs and home invasions by other bad guys. They don't care who gets in the way.

Life here in the warmer part of God's Country is wonderful as usual.
I hope you and your have a wonderful summer full of new adventures and great memories.

Ed

They call it dope for a reason...

Ed

Some folks are born with genes for height

Some muscles

Some pretty

All kinds of different genetics going on & some with a predilection for addiction

I was lucky not smart

Hope I never grow so hard hearted that I only see a junkie & not someone's kid, or brother or sister

Fing drugs & alcohol mess a lot of folks up

Been there, done that.

Looked around one day and didn't like what I was becoming. Took some serious discussions with myself to start to change.
Fortunately, there were a couple of "old guys" who saw it in me and helped me back to being a human being.

When all you deal with are the worst society has to offer, becoming hard-hearted is as easy as getting addicted to dope.

In my case, it wasn't "There but by the grace of God", it is "Here by the grace of God".

Ed

It's nothing about being hard hearted, it's about being a responsible ADULT.

Again, you all can run around felling all loving, touchy feely for all kinds of sheit.

This thread is no different than the outlook liberals have on so many things. Poor Mohammand. It's not his fault he had no goats to play with. That he was born in a country torn apart by the American war machine. All we need is love.


WHEN THE [bleep] WILL PEOPLE START HOLDING PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE?


It's AMAZING the hypocrisy on the 'Fire.

As you remember is that you don't have the 1st f(cking clue, once again.

My sister wasn't addicted to anything.

Your local dealer wouldn't be in business if STUPID people didn't buy drugs from him.

Person OD's, it's not the person's fault, it's the dealers fault? Sounds just like another liberal argument, 10 people get shot in a mall, it's not the shooter's fault it's the gun's fault.

This about says it all for me too.

...or it's the doctor's fault. The same one who gave him/her the pills with clearly labeled directions and warnings, besides warning the person themselves and then having the [bleep] pharmacist warn them all over again. But it's the doc's fault.

Sorry, that discussion was a long time ago. I apologize for my poor memory.

Not knowing what path someone has had in life, I'm not going to judge their choices. Some people are born into families of addicted parents, are sexually abused and no one in their life gives them the support and encouragement they need to become a normal functioning adult.

Yes one in a thousand will pull themselves up by their bootstraps and want to get out of the pit they were born into, but most won't/can't.

Should we make excuses for such lives? No, but we should be compassionate and understanding that we don't know how they got themselves into the situation they are in.

Again, when dealing with Opiate addiction, its not like an addiction to booze, sex, gambling etc.
Its easy to harden your heart for a user, its easier to do than try to feel compassion, why bother to have compassion? some people think its weakness, when really compassion for someone in need is true strength without being stupid, you can tell the cross section of people from the posting here. I can understand why some wouldn't give a shyte.

I'll try to dumb it down abit, regardless if you are compassionate or not....when high on heroin you will step over dead bodies and keep on walking without looking back, and any problems you have are 100% gone. So long as you have your junk theres no problem, till you need it and dont have it.
Honestly, I have the highest level of respect for anyone who has kicked it, and I have known a few, very few.

In life, everyone gets mud on their hands. Those that willfully cling to it need to learn more. But, it is a very high calling, indeed, to help those who have had enough, scrape it off and wash up.