I am always interested in finding a better "tool"for my trips and I am curious about the Kifaru Regulator sleeping bag. This "seems" to be about the lightest for temperature synthetic bag available, at least that I have heard of.

I am considering one, but, I would appreciate some use-based feedback from anyone and everyone here who has actually USED one for multi-day trips in wet, cold conditiosn from 40*F down to 0*F.

So, has anybody done this?

Kute,
I hope someone chimes in on this! I sure have been admiring them.

No field time yet...just got it today...lol...



0 deg. MOB Regular, -20 sleeves, pictured in Siwash...4 lbs 8 oz. total. I'm pretty excited.

Pretty sweet piece of gear...
http://forums.kifaru.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=123637#Post123614

Anyone else hear the sound of chirping crickets?

Taylor

Crawl back under your rock......

No doubt!!

Ignore this imbecile, he never comes here except to badmouth Patrick Smith who is ten times the man he and Wiggy will ever be.

Its true, the Kifaru bags are priced too high. Big deal. Patrick Smith has something much more valuable, and much more important. Something Taylor and Wiggy will never have.

Just look at this person's posting history. He adds nothing to this MB other than pushing his master�s sleeping bags and attacking others. His master was kicked off this MB for being similarly disagreeable.

From what I understand, Wiggy and perhaps Taylor have been booted from about every MB they have imposed their rude, ignorant and exaggerated bullschitt on. So, it seems that about everyone has had enough of the greatest insulation, etc., ever made and the most wonderful bags in the world.......

After standing up to Wiggy's nasty, deceitful, phoney and demented BS on the Kifaru site a couple of years back, I have only one thing more to say. Even IF Wiggy made the FINEST outdoor gear ever AND would GIVE ME a lifetime supply FREE, I would sleep in a dirty, sweatstained horse blanket before using any of his products!

I wouldn't buy jackschitt from Taylor, either and would avoid his store like one would avoid the c**p!!! However, I have bought about five grand CDN of products from Patrick at Kifaru and consider some of his gear to be the finest in it's category, especially the tipis and the Gunbearer as well as loving my Siwash pack, after two years of use.

Nah, you guys are being too harsh, Taylor is the real deal.

Why, he was even able to do a detailed critique of the Kifaru bag on another website, having never seen or laid hands on the bag. I know, I read the critique, it was a work of art. Fiction, I think they call it. He did the critique using what he read on the internet.

Now that's genius at work. Not surprisingly, he didn't like the bag.

That's what I call integrity--slam your competitor's product, in a public forum, having never laid hands on it.

I do still like my W bags for what they are used for. Backpacking is not one of them, but I've never had a cold night in base camp in one!

As to any of the W sales tactics, they remind me of bad used care salespersons.

Jeff

Some of your comments are laughable, making remarks about someone you don't even know in person but think you know him over the internet. Tell me.....why would Marc Taylor want to buy a bag for over $600 just to test it? I wouldn't want to do that either. Kutenay, I respect your opinion on a lot of things but you are dead wrong about Taylor, he's a great guy and sells quality products which he steadfastly stands behind. He doesn't sell junk either, I know because i've actually been to his store many times and you have never been there so you have no clue about his goods. He knows he can get a rise of most of you, thats why he says what he says, your easily baited. If you don't like his comments then just don't respond to them. How can a post saying "do you hear the crickets chirping?" bring out such animosity and hatred?? If Tayor didn't actually use and believe in Wiggy's gear he wouldn't be selling it.

Interesting though(and I assume you are replying to Kutenay and not me in the above post) that the regulator system is genius for what it can used for, but evidently, as usual, its a piece of junk to the W crowd. Sugar and vinegar...

I just will put all Wiggites and Taylorites on "ignore" and take my own advice; having actually owned and used a Wigsack, I speak from experience, once was too often.....

Kute, you go ahead and do that, makes no difference to me as we don't usually agree on much anyways. With that being said, I won't put you on ignore because I don't really have anything against you. Sele...

Rost, show me in my post where I said the Regulator is junk?? There's some things that go on behind the scenes between Kifaru and Wiggy's that you are both clueless about but you 2 are the "experts" so i'll keep that stuff to myself and laugh everytime I see this feud going on......really though, if you only knew.

This is NOT about Wiggy, his products or Kifaru, it IS about the fact that Marc Taylor NEVER posts here EXCEPT to interfere in someone else's legitimate thread in order to denigrate Kifaru.

I really don't care about ANY ...feud...or ANYTHING ELSE between Kifaru or Wiggy, I know what I saw happen, it was an utterly disgusting display by both Taylor and Wiggy on the MB that Patrick Smith PAYS FOR.

I simply do not want Taylor to post on my threads and will GLADLY ignore him, his pal Wiggy and anyone else like them. I do notice that Wiggy has been banned from about every site he has posted on, that should say something about this whole sorry situation...simple, eh?

Marc Taylor is a friend of mine so when someone attacks him over such trivial BS, then I will say something. You do the same thing for Patrick Smith and Kifaru so your no different. Let me ask you this.....Why does Kifaru use "continuous filament fiber synthetic insulation" in their new Regulator bag? Do you know where they get it? Do you know what is in all Wiggy's bags and has been long before Kifaru started making sleeping bags? The ONLY difference is Wiggy's is Laminated and Kifaru's is not. Amazing stuff yes??? I'm not here to support Jerry Wigetow, don't know the man myself but have heard a few things about him BUT, I will support Wiggy's Alaska! as long as he continues to sell the best outdoor products geared towards Alaska hunting and backpacking. So there is a little bit of Wiggy's in that new Regulator bag, rather you choose to believe it or not.

You seem to have a certain difficulty with perception, hardly surprising given your choice of friends. Marc Taylor CAME HERE and interfered with MY thread to cause trouble, plain and simple. Several posters took offence at this, as I did, because this jerk NEVER deigns to share his "wisdom" with we who enjoy this MB, he ONLY posts stupid comments to cause trouble.

As to Kifaru, I do not know any of the folks there, for a number of reasons which have been exhaustively posted here; however, they do not bother me and I do not interfere with them. I have NEVER met Patrick Smith, very much doubt I ever WILL, I simply respect his integrity and find him a very decent guy, something I have NOT seen with Taylor or that idiot he represents.

I really don't CARE what filament ANYBODY uses, I do, however, seem to remember that continuous filament was invented and used BEFORE Wiggy learned his wilderness "expertise" on Coney Island, New York, boy, that's REAL bushwhacking, eh!

Nobody attacked Taylor, HE ...baited...us, in your own words and some of us, with previous experience of his slimey behaviour on the Kifaru MB do not want to have him interfere here. That should be easy to understand and the ...trivial BS... WAS started by HIM.

Now, I have had enough of this, Wiggy, Taylor and their crap simply are NOT ...the best..., they are not even particularly good!

No, you tell me, why would someone post a detailed critique of one of his competitor's products on a public forum having never laid hands on the product? It's a sleeping bag, and if you're going to review a sleeping bag, you need to have the bag to make a judgment on its performance, wouldn't you say? I can understand him not wanting to spend the $$, but if he doesn't have the product in hand to test, he should just keep his opinions to himself because he has no basis for his opinions. And yes, I can draw certain conclusions based on what I've read from Taylor on the internet with 100% justification because the simple act of slamming your competitor's product in writing, in public, without basis is inherently unethical. I need not meet the man in person to draw that conclusion.


Now, to your second point, if Taylor is a great guy and sells great products which he stands behind, shouldn't that be enough? Shouldn't he just promote his own stuff and not stoop to bad-mouthing the competition? Isn't that what "great guys" do?

Gentlemen,
There is a lesson to be learned here apparently by some of those in business that build/sell sleeping bags. Wiggy as all of us that have dealt with him know is a guy that will tell you in a heart beat all about his sleeping bags, their quality, the material they are made out of, who he builds them for, etc. etc. He is obviously successful selling his products and the market has given him a good grade.
Patrick Smith's products are also obviously very good products. His service is excellent and the way he stands behind his products is an example many business people can learn from. He has also been given a good grade by the market place.
My own practical experience with both Wiggy's and Patrick's products have been good. Here is the point to this post.
Getting involved and making comments or replying to comments on any message boards that reference someone's business, there business interests or another's business is not a good idea especially if the posts are offensive to anyone in any way. It is almost impossible (unless a business person is thanking someone for a complimentary post) to say the right thing.
I didn't see the Wiggy posts on Patrick's MB but I can only imagine. Those that work in my business have the same opportunities to make comments on MB's relating to the same as do I. All are absolutely forbidden to post/reply and as an example I follow the same procedure no matter what the subject.
The 'fire" is a great place to find out about practically any outdoor product and I enjoy reading posts by all of you guys and this is the one place (not remotely related to the business I am engaged in) that I find reading and posting occassionally "therapy" and fun because it's kinda like being in a camp up Greys River Road just west of Alpine, Wy. to hunt the giant Mulies that hang out in Bridger.
Hammering one another is something akin to what Wiggy was doing to Patrick???

These 2 rump-rangers are back?

I think the point here Race is not about Wiggy or Patrick who is perfectly capable of looking after himself. It IS about one person deliberately coming on the Campfire backpacking forum, which is USUALLY pretty mellow and friendly and attempting to cause trouble. THAT is something I find REALLY offensive and Taylor has done this before, in fact, that is ALL he does here.

If, someone prefers a Wiggy's bag or an ID or a WM or a freakin' army blanket, I don't care and I doubt that most others here do, either. I enjoy this forum, which is why I come here and I try to pass on what little knowledge I have gained over the years in a reasonable fashion.

If, someone doesn't like me, my opinions, Canada, BC or whatever, fine, let them ignore me, as I do a couple of posters whom I consider a PITA. BUT, I do not and most of us do not, DELIBERATELY attempt to slag others here and I doubt that most here want that to start, I certainly don't.

Your position is a wise one, too bad everyone would not act as you do, but, I have found that some "outdoorsmen" cannot seem to post anything without a stupid sarcastic and usually false sneer at someone else. Well, that's the internet, for good or bad, I guess and not much we can do about it, really.

I just hope that this MB does not go the way of others, it has been a real fun place to relax. Anyway, I'm leaving next Monday for the BC interior to see if a stupid Mulie might get shot by an old geezer like me...and I am sleeping in , shudder, Primaloft!!!! Probably die........

Well lets just say that I've never seen a favorable word from W about any other brand.... just negatives and how perfect his is.

Never said you mentioned a thing.

The ethics from the W side have always sucked IMHO.

But you are right, I don't know all of it. I do know this. I have 5 Wiggys' bags in the family, all are happy with their bags. Love em actually. They are heavy for what I do so I have them and others for different situations. I also have Kifaru gear, a tipi which is great, another on the way and a Long Hunter. All very well made and useful. What I've continually heard is how much better W is. While I've never heard Kifaru brag, only test their gear and if you dont' like it we'll take it back. They don't have to do the used car salesmen tactics of belittling the competition. They let their performance speak.

I prefer that attitude over any arrogant b@stards, but I use gear from both for its purposes.

Jeff

Wow. Who's doing the namecalling here?

But still nothing on experience in a Kifaru bag...

After 2 pages...

And over 500 views...

Just wondering about that, that's all.

"Chirp, Chirp" go the crickets.

Taylor

And yours, is?......Be honest, now. Don

Which 2 rump rangers are you referring to?

Against my better judgement, I'll submit that it seems to me, over time, this argument has achieved Biblical proportions.

Men,
If I could get my schedule squared away I would take off tomorrow and drive out to Craig, Co (I think 3rd rifle Mule Deer starts Saturday with OC tags still available) and stop at Patrick's on the way and pick up a new bag just to try it out. I am sure it would perform perfectly and it would be much easier to carry than my Wiggy FTRS bag.
One things for sure if I wasn't satisfied with the Kifaru Regulator Patrick would make it right. That speaks volumes for his product.
If I decided to go with what I already have it would perform fine as well as it has in the past.
Patrick's business acumen and Jerry's from the little experience I have had with both are opposite however I enjoyed dealing with both.
This discussion has turned somewhat personal for some of you gentlemen and that is unfortunate. We need someone with experience with a Kifaru Regulator bag to share their thoughts on the bag with us. I hope the flavor of some of these posts is not keeping the info we desire to read off of this forum. All of this over a sleeping bag??

Dave

Now that's funny.

So is the bag any good or what?

Aw, man!

What did Ti Goat ever do to deserve getting lumped in with that bunch? Still funny...

Taylor - FOAD

Don't know, never tried one myself. I don't feel qualified to comment on it.

It's probably more than I'd need for any of my adventures anyway.

I don't know the history behind Mr Wiggy's posts and don't care to as that BS is in the past and what I posted wasn't in his defense, it was in Taylors. I have no experience with the Regulator bag so I can't offer up any help with that. And Leadslinger, I cetainly hope your assinine remark about rumprangers wasn't directed at me, you don't know me from Adam nor I you, if it's not directed at me than my apologies. Now we can get back on topic.

I would venture to say that besides the obvious distraction injected into the thread, the reason we haven't heard more about the Regulator is that it hasn't been out long, is pretty expensive and is marketed to a relatively small group of backpacking hunters and a probably larger market of those in service who are willing to pay for a top notch product. No matter how you look at it, $300 for a 20 degree synthetic bag is mucho dinero and it may be a while before a good number of this group make that investment. The one report I read of someone who actually slept in the bag was favorable and said that it was good down to the rated temperature. That in itself is amazing given the weight and compactness of the bag. So, crickets chirp away, I'm sure there will be more reports forthcoming. Hopefully the bulk of them come from those who have actually used the bag. Happily, being a large hairy man wearing fishnets does not seem to be a requirement as to the bag's effectiveness.

THAT says it all about the distractions, dam good one, bud!!!

Well, there was that one account of a guy having to wake up in the middle of the night and do sit-up's...

This is a good distraction, so I think I'll entertain for a while.

Leadslinger - G.F.Y. Now there's an acronym back at ya. Now we're all a bunch of twelve-year-olds!

Huskyrunnr - Ah, I don't really know what to say about something as strange as that... except, I hope you don't think that's W himself. And if I were at TiGoat, you'd already have removed the part of the logo that you cut/pasted. Or I'd own your computer, either/or.

AkMtnHntr - Don't take it too seriously. Just a clown puffing up his puny chest behind a computer, safe in his own home...

If you guys would just think of the "Regulator" from a realistic, objective standpoint, you'd see its obvious flaws. It's nothing personal, just a bad business decision and flawed engineering.

The ambient temperature inside a sleeping bag wont be raised by spot-insulating portions but not the entire bag, as heat will escape as fast as it is created. It'll work for a while, but not for an 8-hour period. Having zippers that run the radial of the bag doesn't help either.

But then, some of you guys already know it all, and at least one of you keeps buying every piece of new gear that comes out in a failed attempt to acquire knowledge.

Truth is, once you get so far up the Rhino's ass, you can't see the light of day!

So your saying that the MOB's will not hit their respective temperature ratings?

And you know for a fact that sections added to the bag do not raise inside temps for 8 hour periods?

You have tried the bags and know that these are facts?

Regulator bags are new enough that not many are out there yet. Same question could have been raised in the first months that @zzhole started humping his wares(and I like his bags too...) No point made there.

As to zippers, not seeing a regulator bag in person YET, I can't comment, but I can say that if the zippers are insulated then it should not matter which way the zippers run. If they are not insulated it could be an issue.

One thing is very interesting, P Smith understands how to make things multi use and cut down on weight since he is a out there backpacker. All my W bags weigh more than they claim by a bit, and while very warm, just are not packing bags and are useable only as bags, not as clothing also, so are a one dimensional thing.

Jeff

Here's a link for the Regulator. http://www.kifaru.net/regulator.htm

Marc, I do business with all three companies. If any one of them asks me to remove that metaphor, I'll gladly do so, but not until then.

I had my Wiggy's parka on an alpine climb a few weeks back, as bivy gear. That thing is great. I've stood around in -30F weather and not been the least bit chilled. Hell, Jerry has even offered to make me a one-off Lamilite Elephant's foot for it, for bivy purposes, if you know what one is. He is not blind to modular systems, I suspect he just sees it as a niche market.

I see things the same way Jeff see's things. The Regulator, and more specifically the MOB for me, will cut down on overall pack weight and space.

To what temperature the MOB will do so for me is unknown at this time and I'll refrain from making to many speculations on the gear until I get some seat of the pant's testing.

Dave also makes a good point that Jerry was and is willing to do a certain amount of custom work....and from what I understand of Jerry from talking to him about certain things, the niche comment is spot on as well. Jerry is more interested in targeting the masses...

Anyways back to the Kifaru's.

Like I mentioned above, my new 'system' weighs 4-8 all packed up, and fits in the bag compartment of my 4200 cu.in. Siwash.

The gear it replaces for me is a Kifaru Special Wiggys bag, a XL Sweater and XL leg jackets. The bag went 3-8 or so w/ Jerry's compression sack, the sweater weighs 27 or 28 oz. the leg jackets are 19 oz for the pair...that's a total of 6-7...So one FACT is I'm saving nearly 2 lbs. The other FACT is that I can't compress those 4 items and get them into the same Siwash.

Ken, thanks for posting some facts, now we're getting somewhere.

Is this how you evaluate all your gear?

Think of it from a realistic, objective standpoint?

How about testing it?

And your asking the rest of us to be "objective" is the most hilarious thing I've heard in a while, do you actually expect us to believe your opinion is objective here?

Just reading your comments, it's obvious you're not exactly a disinterested third party.

Ken999 - I don't feel it will sustain that temperature rating for very long, no, given the construction. But each sleeper is different under each circumstance, and honestly, since you've purchased it I hope that it works for you. But what you had going for you with the system you replaced was a sweater and leg jackets that can be worn with utility purpose outside the bag. Easily, this will get you down to or near zero, if you'd just add a pair of booties and wear something on your head while you sleep. "Take booties as well?!", you say? Yep. They give your boots/shoes drying time whenever you are in your base camp. They are a component of my sleep system on EVERY hunt, even the long pack-ins. I promise, my 10-day pack is lighter and warmer than nearly anyone on this board or any board. I wish I had time to prove that...

And I didn't just walk in as a salesman, fellas. So you're not going anywhere with the "if you haven't used it you don't know anything about it" crap. I'm familiar with the capabilities of all the materials that make up this particular bag and am just not surprised that it is not a big seller.

I looked at it objectively, given the knowledge of sleeping bags that I have, and concluded that the multitude of zippers will be a problem. Further, they serve no purpose as any overbag system should be ONE component ONLY to maintain the ambient air temperature within the bag. When you build in escapes for the warm air, over time there will be a major problem staying warm at the temperature rating of the new bag.

What the bag has going for it -- Climashield! It's the best thing about the whole system.

Now, if you think you can wear the upper part of the M.O.B. for any length of time, doing anything other than sitting around, you're crazy. The shell material won't support it. A sleeping bag, made of light materials especially, needs to be in a stuff sack, pack, or in a tent. Otherwise, it will snag on just about anything. It's easier to make outerwear components suit your sleeping needs than to make your sleeping needs suit your outerwear needs.

No anger here, guys. I just understand alot more about this subject than you guys will give me credit for, but that's okay... Life goes on for all of us, and hopefully for a long time for all of us.

Just selling the hell out of Lamilite at Wiggy's-Alaska!,
Marc Taylor

I've got booties Mark...they go nearly every trip.

I rarely walk w/ the Sweater or LJ's on as is...I'd sweat to death. Same goes for the MOB. I don't plan to hunt much w/ it on other than for sitting, so the MOB should work dandy for me.

Why don't you spell out YOUR sleeping system...shouldn't take a whole lot of time, should it?...Your system saves weight and space over my MOB?

I'm all ears.

Come on Ken the man did promise and he wishes there was the time. Why you calling him on it? After all he has contributed to this MB his word is gold!

I would like to see his system too. Heck maybe he can help inform us. This guy claims to know more than most here. I am all ears too.

Wanna bet? Lets start with sleeping bags.....

I gotta feeling it's our turn to "insert chirping crickets" sound...

You're delusional, Taylor, if you think you're objective on this subject.

You're just about as objective as any salesman trying to sell his product, which is to say you're not. Your problem is, you don't stick to the merits of your own product like an ethical salesman, you run down your competitor's product without ever having used it.

That is truly pathetic.

And as far as the "if you haven't used it you don't know anything about it crap" no one said you don't know anything about it. What was said was, if you haven't used it, you don't know how well it works. If you think you do based on what you've read about it on the internet, now that's a load of crap.

But hey, keep on shoveling.

And saying you're familiar with the capabilities of the materials that make up this product proves nothing. Big deal. I'm familiar with all the materials that make up a Lamborghini, I guess that qualifies me to do a review in Car and Driver now, huh?

Don't you get it, he doesn't have time to instruct mere mortals in his wisdom; BUT, he certainly has time to badmouth others here as well as Patrick and Kifaru designs WITHOUT seeing/using them.

Well, I think that this shows his level of knowledge/integrity to it's greatest potential............

Once upon a time, I actually ordered some gear from MT because I didn't want to deal with JW. Never again. What an idiot.

+1 RockHopper

don't get to Anchorage often but did this summer, even noticed the Wiggy's of Alaska store, not even tempted to go in anymore.

Used to think Marc was a good guy (he did give me good customer service when I bought my Wiggy's Kifaru special) but his sales tactics and how he posts aren't my cup of tea.

don't doubt that he does sell lots of Wiggy bags in Los Anchorage, someone around these parts used to tome "you can bullchit the fans, but not the players"

I've seen too many gear lists posted on here, including mine to believe a guy can be enough lighter(and then it's personal preference grams and ounces) than some of the other experienced hands at bp hunting to be impressed.

He ain't the only student of the game, and thank God there's lots of places a guy can buy gear.

+2 RockHopper/+1 1AK (as usual)

Hmmmmm, sounds like you had a bad experience with MT, please, expound on that if you would. I'd like to hear how he treated you as a customer.

Interestingly enough, I suspect I'm like most of us here. Intrigued by the system. Enough so to try it when I save up the money.

I don't think anyone would buy the system as clothing, thats kinda silly to me. but I often pack extra emergency clothes in the pack, I have to for my cold natured wife too. So instead of extra pants and jacket in case weather turns while we are miles in... we could use the bag parts as needed. So no double weights there. I think its a solid idea, and the only excess I can tell might be the miles of zippers..

Its worth a trial!

I, for one, would love to see Marcs sleep system mentioned, it might be worth trying too if he would ever post it. I think most of us gearheads have bought and sold tons of stuff trying different ideas making it work for us. I know I run a Ti goat stove in a Kif tipi... the Ti works for me, and saves ounces...
So much so I will buy their tiny stove for the PT when I save for that too... Doesnt mean the Kif stove is bad, just its not what I'm after. And I doubt Patrick hates me for using Ti Gear.

Jeff

I do not see any greater "problem" with the radial zippers than with longitudinal zippers, why would there be?

As to insulative performance, a given thickness of dry insulation over a heat-radiating source, as in the radiation due to metabolic reactions in the human body, will result in a greater retention of said heat; this is why so many mountaineers will carefully drape their down jackets over the torso area of their bags and it DOES work, although there are more efficient methods as I suspect the Regulator system will prove to be.

The issue of a "draught collar" is an interesting one and my experience is that a fitted draught collar makes a given bag warmer by a considerable margin, which is WHY most reputable makers install them in their bags, especially the winter and expedition models. They DO NOT restrict circulation, the primary means of energy flow through your body and THIS, not some daft idea of keeping all the "hot air"inside your bag is what is crucial in retaining warmth.

My take on this whole affair is that some simply cannot refrain from making nasty comments and claiming the greatest knowledge of gear EVER, even when they do not/have not used the products they sneer at. I prefer to avoid persons of this type and the gear they make/endorse as they are not worth the effort/time to respond to their typical slurs, i.e., ...puny chest... Anyone with any real knowledge debates on merits, not by slurring people he has never met, especially by lies such as this.

Based on USE of Kifaru products and of that other brand, would I buy Kifaru again, YES, and I already posted on the other brand. 'Nuff said, thanks to all who tried to assist me with some REAL opinions.

Kutenay

Off to the PO right now to fix the issue...

If you were replying to my thoughts on the zipper, I wasn't saying they were bad, simply that there may be more footage of them than a regular half zipper... IE more weight by ounces.

Jeff

Where are the nasty comments, guys? Merely an opinion that is turning out to be correct?

Okay, a bag is DEAD WEIGHT, unless you are in it, right. Same with sleeping pad. I think we can agree on that... So stop carrying a ton of layering clothes and have one layer that provides warmth and can also be utilized inside the bag.

As for my system, it is very similar to ken999's: Wiggy's Mountain Hunter bag, Barren Ground Jacket, Leg Jackets, Booties. With this system I can go down to 0 or -10. I'll know this winter when I get a bottom number for comfort range, but I KNOW it goes to zero.

My sleeping bag is 3#, 1oz. and is solid down to 25 even if it is soaked. I haven't used it exclusively below that, so I don't have a bottom temp on the bag alone. Besides, that varies from person-to-person, anyway. The Barren Ground Jacket is my layer; period. It may be the best single piece of gear I've got in the store other than sleeping bags. This year I added the leg jackets for comfort when glassing in the wet cold during spring bear season. They can also be worn in the bag, but are not really needed unless the bottom falls out of the thermometer. The booties are great once you get back to camp. They dry your feet and have a textured bottom so they can be worn in or out of the bag.

The idea behind my thinking is that one, lightweight bag will take me through nearly all of my temperature zones EXCEPT deep winter.

The garments go on all of my hunts, without thought as to whether I'll need them or not, so I don't think of them as part of a sleep system only. I do solo hunts, like my goat hunt this year, and if I get in trouble out of reach of my bag, I've got a whole system that will get me through the chill.

Like I think I stated earlier: Take proper garments to the bag and you'll need less bag. I got this lessong from an experienced Iditarod Musher who has our Antarctic Parka and Bib. They always see -50 degree temps on the Yukon River and he wanted to make due with as little sleeping bag as possible. That turned out to be a 0-degree Hunter with Hood.

I had to date been "stripping down" to sleep in my bag, to allow the bag to do what it does. Great idea, but I could now get more out of less bag by wearing Lamilite garments as well.

Now did that lighten my overall backpack hunting load? I can't really say. It's pretty light as is, and gets tweaked based on solo or accompanied, expected weather, terrain, etc. So it won't do me any good to quote you a number as far as the weight of my pack is concerned. Hope you weren't expecting that. Let's just say that no matter whom I hunt with; my pack is always lighter and we're on the same hunt.

Sorry if you guys are angry at me or hate me for some reason, but I'm in the game on three ends. Consumer development,and salesman.

This year I hunted bear, sheep, goat and moose. I took black and brown bears, a goat and a moose.

Sorry, but I'm walking the talk, and if you've got preconceived notions about my business affiliations, then that's an internal struggle. I offer THE BEST service to my customers, and I offer advice based upon ALL of my experience. I didn't start sleeping in sleeping bags when I opened this store, I just continue to do so.

If I may gloat for a moment: This thread was going nowhere until I showed up...

Still we have no testimonial from a "Regulator" user...

Taylor

I do believe Mark, that in describing your sleeping system above, that this could be the first time you have ever added anything useful to a thread here on the campfire. As a consumer it makes me wonder why a person in your position only shows up here every once and a while, and then only to bad mouth one of your competitors. Honestly, how in the world can you try to evaluate the merits of a sleeping bag system without ever seeing one in person?

Anyways, always thought that maybe you were cut from a different cloth then Jerry, but it sure doesn't seem so.

Levi

that's it? no weights?

3-1 for the mnt hntr...what size is it?

...how about the return policy at W's Levi??...

Ken - Reg/Wide

Levi - I've written two very successful books full of information. I don't post here often because my "home" forum is PristineVentures.com. I monitor most threads of interest, though.

I just don't see how a sarcastic response can cause fifty-something posts and a thousand views. Obviously, my reputation precedes me...

It's a good thing!

Love ya, and have no hard feelings toward anyone on this forum.

Taylor

It doesn't sound like you are using Jerry's compression sack.

Unless your parka is a pound and a half lighter than my sweater, you sleep system sounds heavier AND bulkier than mine.

Patrick coined a term years ago that seems to fit.... He called them "Jerry's men" IMO this troll needs to be placed in the campfire's trash bin along with his buddy Jerry...

Interesting we still have the stab at no regulator users, even though its extremely new and takes time to get into the field and get trials run...

I know I had W bags for 2 years till I knew whether or not the zero bags were good at 10 degrees or not.

I do know that I have a 35-40 I don't recall, W bag, and had 2 of the W ground mats down and at 32 one night I about froze my azz off, had to get up and put my wools back on, the bag had all kinds of cold spots to it. I was pushing the limits on it though.

Jeff

I took into account all the hype associated with the design and release of the bag; The fact that it was immediately marketed to the entire membership of that board. It spilled over to this board, and it really isn't that recent a release. I've sold over 2 dozen Glacier Hunter Bags in the last two months since I released it. Put up a thread and you'll have "takers" on that bag. If the "Regulator" comes down in price by 20%, it may reach market.

The only part of my sleep system that is "sleep only" is the bag. All other parts are redundant, therefore not dead weight.

No, I don't use a stuff sack. It stuffs nicely into the bottom of my Osprey.

Jeff, I'm to understand you were using either a Desert Bag, or an Overbag. Yes, you will be cold in either at 32 degrees. I sell them here as 40-degree bags, and not to be heavily relied upon below that.

2ndWind - Go ahead. "Trash me" It hurts just thinking about it.

Taylor

So is that anyone that owns a Wiggys bag? Talk about trolls, jumping into a thread with that smartass comment without contributing something useful to it, now thats a troll. See the fit??

Sure, AkMtnHntr, Patrick owns a Wiggy Bag. I personally sold him one!

But he cut it up in the beginning stages of designing his current system. He then bought insulation from the same manufacturer who makes the raw product for Lamilite. Yes, there is more to the story than most know or remember.

That is about the time I got launched from the Kifaru board, because I was selling sleeping bags on that board and supported all Jerry's theories about a sleeping bag's capabilities and limitations. I'm a Jerry's Man! And loving every minute of it!

Taylor

Ok, that's ENOUGH, I started this thread because I wanted some input on a certain product made by a well known and highly respected longterm gear designer/maker, NOT because I wanted the egotistical ranting of someone whose "facts" appear to be as faulty as his memory.

Taylor, on the Kifaru MB and, until now, here on the Campfire, I have tried to refrain from negative comments about you, although you richly deserve such remarks due to your infantile, ignorant and unwanted comments on this thread.

However, I WAS THERE when you were, deservedly, banned from Kifaru's board, WHEN you and that total psychopath you represent were allowed to sell bags on the board that Patrick Smith PAYS FOR.

Your whacknut mentor, one of the most offensive jerks I have ever spoken with and one with NO wilderness mountain experience AND YOU were rude, insulting, deceitful and lied on Kifaru's MB; there were incidents of sneaking back there under other "handles"as well.

I SAW this and so did lots of other guys. So, your protestations about why you were turfed are not factual; you were banned there for behaving as you have done here, as I think others will remember.

I am probably not the most popular person with the Kifaru regulars, at least several of them and that's fine with me. HOWEVER, I have FAR MORE RESPECT for any and all of the posters there, even those who may make untoward comments about me, than I do for you, your imbecilic lying mentor and his/your products.

Yeah, YOU have written TWO BOOKS about backpack hunting, WOW, you kinda remind me of a certain famous American author who "lived"just outside of Hudson's Hope, BC., in the '60s and early '70s; he wrote about how to ...Stay Alive...etc., in the BC wilderness.

ALL the little "Back to the Land" groupies who flocked here in that era just HAD to buy and read his tomes. We who actually LIVE here and WORKED in the areas he mentioned used to laugh ourselves hoarse whenever we heard this guy's name; you remind me of him, only he had better manners.

I will also say, having owned a successful specialty retail store, managed another and worked in the backpacking/mountaineering industry, that YOU have the weirdest method of attracting and keeping customers that I have EVER seen.

Look at the number of posters here who find your posts offensive, these are people who tend to buy MORE gear than most; it seems to me that a person who owns a gear outlet and wants to sell product would refrain from behaving as you do, simply out of sound business sense.

However, none of US "know" as much as you do, geezuz, boy, you are a piece of work and not like the Alaskans I met up there in '72. I think that everytime you post here, you just alienate potential customers,but, maybe you enjoy such weird behaviour, just as Wiggy seems to.

I know the whole thing Mark. Heck Wiggy even sent me some stupid faxes that meant God knows what. Why in the heck he did this is beyond my comprehension. Spelled out his whole insane thinking process to me. It was maddens plain and simple. Even was crying that one person has two IP addresses and were conspiring against him over at the Kifaru site never mind that I met both and know for a fact they often use the same computer. It was the most insane Nero type gibberish I have ever been exposed to any outdoor form.

This whole thing is a darn shame as I do think Jerry has a great deal of knowledge. I think once others run the company things will get better. Maybe a draft collar or two? Who knows? As for the MOB I was given the opportunity to test it out as a garment.



I only had the opportunity to use it for about 12 hours. During that time it was used for pulk runs between a cabin and the road. About 8 miles worth though 4 feet of snow. It was cold. Sometimes there was light snow all the time there was wind blown snow. I was warm. The draft collar thing kept my face warm as using the pulk I couldn't simply turn away every time the wind changed direction.

I was working too hard and wetted up the head. But after I dug out about 4 feet of snow while still wearing the thing I found it dry.

Here I am the next day.



Does this make me an expert on the MOB? No! Only one day is not enough time. Do I know more about hunting and sleeping bags than you? Probably not. However unlike you I have seen the Kifaru sleeping bag in person. I used it as a garment for a day. What have you done? Nothing....

Comes down to who can I believe. A guy that flys to the East Coast to show off his gear and sits down to eat one of my Kielbasa sandwiches or someone that I found to be unstable and seems to go out of his way to bad mouth everyone. Personally I own some gear from Wiggy and Ti-goat. I got nothing against any competitor of Kifaru. I think the more North American gear makers the better. If Ti-goat wants to make stoves and tents more power to them. If Wiggy and Kifaru both make bags that is a good thing. Too bad not everyone feels that way. I am glad that you have the opportunity to sell gear and hunt in AK. But not so happy with your one issue input to this MB.

Kute...Sorry that your thread got hijacked.

No worries, your input, as always is practical, experience-based and well worth reading. My feelings parallel yours concerning gear,etc., I simply am interested in what others have to say concerning their use of various products.

The Kifaru bag looks very interesting to me and seems extremely light for it's temp. ratings, so, I thought I would solicit opinions here. Thanks, yours is EXACTLY the kind of post I wanted to see here.

WW,
Here is the problem I envision with the MOB as it is described to be intended. I "will" eventually get dirt,debris,mud,water etc in the zippers even if they are conceled it will eventually happen.
Next when hunting I get cold when I am sitting for a while & the weather kicks up. Of course then I try & hide in alders, behind a rock,or what ever shelter presents itself. Now if I am wearing my sleeping bag in parts they will get damp, muddy, wet & the worst part eventually get torn on a unseen thorn, stick,or rock. (the same reason some people don't use thermarests prolite series, or frogg toggs ) At the end of the day I don't want to go back to a cold camp & try & zip my bag back together after it has been getting wet & beat up & then crawl into it for the night. With 3 days straight of this it won't dry out for the remainder of the hunt unless there is a serious weather change.
I would like to hear opinons of those who can experience it for a week long or so & how its temp rating is.
I think I would look to using just the plain regulator system for a bag only.

Now, here is another useful, rational comment and a very good point. THIS is what I am interested in as I have obtained a lot of very useful info. from this forum and that is why I read and post here.

I have no issues with anyone who chooses a W bag or a Kifaru, a NF, FF, WM or ID...or any other item of gear. What I WANT to do here is learn, contribute and enjoy, NOT slag others as only little pri*ks (in every sense) behave this way.

Also, people's opinions change with new experiences; for many years, although I tried a number of synthetic bags, I ALWAYS prefered and used down, especially with a GT-type shell. Then, I decided to try Integral and Exped Primaloft bags and now use these most of the time.

I have down bags by WM, FF and ID, the premier makers available, other than perhaps Peter Hutchinson and Valandre and yet I find my ID North Twin plus Andromeda Strain overbag to do about all I want in most BC situations. So, my opinion has changed and many others do as well as different products become available.

Good point about possible contamination of the Regulator's zippers, hope someone can shed more light on this.

Taylor, don't flatter yourself, this isn't about you or your products, it's about the Kifaru regulator bag.

The comments made about you pertain solely to your pathetic attempts to denigrate a product you've neither seen nor used. The fact that the product belongs to your competitor makes your conduct inherently unethical, and it's plain to see from the comments here that unethical sales tactics aren't working for you.

If you claim to "offer advice based upon ALL of your experience" and your experience doesn't include using the bag, then ALL of your experience ain't worth squat in this discussion except to sell your own products by running down your competitor.

Nice job.

But as long as we're on the subject of you, tell me, why is it that just about any time the subject of Kifaru comes up here you can't resist jumping in with your negative comments?

Is it possibly because you're envious? I sure would be if I were in your position. That is, trying to sell a product that seems worthwhile, but has a stigma attached to it due to the character issues associated with the purveyors.

And you have to compete against a company that has not only a loyal following, but satisfied customers willing to try a brand new product based on the character attributes of the purveyors and their reputation for quality gear and outstanding customer service.

Yup, if I were you I'd be envious too. Kifaru has something you'll never have.

Keep chipping away on the internet, that's sure to put you on par with their reputation and loyal customer base.

LOL!!!!

PS, Kutenay, I've been in the market for a lightweight, compact 20 degree synthetic bag for a while now. All this talk has prompted me to check into the regulator. I'm going to swing by the Kifaru shop today and pick one up. I like the compactness, as Ken commented on. I've seen the compressed bag and it's about the size of a football. I've also seen a hunting partner use it with attachments at around 5 degrees (last year) and from the sound of the snoring, he was not cold in the least.

I will let you know how the regulator does for me as soon as I get a chance to use it.

Sorry your thread got dumped on.

Mark...I'm sure that reports on the Regulators will start now that people are actually getting out and using them. Up until now, the weaher here in NY has not been all that cold....and it's still not cold enough to find out what the bottom temp rating of my MOB will be, but it's getting down to where I can justify carring the bag. And let's not forget I just got the thing a week ago. So be patient, the reports will come.

As far as the "hype" is concerned, what's not to like about losing 2 lbs and gaining pack space? Is it the end of the world? NO...but, for me, the MOB is helping to make a 4200 in. pack a reality for 2-3 day trips. It's pretty thick here in the ADK, and by getting into that pack things will certainly be easier while stillhunting. It amazes me that you, being a backpack hunter, cannot not even acknowledge the FACTS w/ regards to space and weight.

For the last 2 years I've USED nearly an identical 'system' as yours, and now I'm 2 lbs lighter, using less pack space and LIKELY will be as comfortable. AND, I'd be willing to bet, if I pack my Kifaru Woobie along w/ the MOB, it'll be no contest in the comfort department...I'll STILL be lighter than when I was in Wiggy mode, as the Woobie is only 1-6.

GG- Mr. Smith has been using the MOB's in some form or another for two years...any zipper issues have likely been addressed...

You could be right. I too would like to hear the experiance of those that have used it for longer than me. I would put the thing under a hard shell if looking to beat the bushes.

Here's a couple more facts...







My long/wide WKS in a GG comp sack next to a long 20 deg Regulator...not even close.



...not even close again...3.5 lbs for a 40 deg. bag??...

No problem, my point about enough was not directed at anyone other than MT and I TOTALLY AGREE with everything you have posted, this is exactly the point I wanted to make, as well.

I have the Siwash pack as well and I spent a fair dollar putting goodies on it so that it would be my ideal Grouse-Deer hunting pack, which it IS. So, while I have some superb gear, I will spend $$$$ to get something which is a real improvement and the Regulator bag certainly looks as though it would be. Weight and compactness ARE important to me, because I often hunt alone and carry my camp while hunting,, so as not to be caught out with an ankle fracture and no means of survival.

One point about the zippers that occurs to me is relevant to my one dislike of the double bag systems I have used to date. These are a Swedish Caravan down double "expedition" bag that I owned/used from 1974 to 1978 and down to -30*F, a mediocre piece of gear at best, a combo of my Feathered Friends Overbag plus a Chouinard Thermolite survival bag that I used a lot from 1989 to 2005 and now my well-liked ID North Twin-Andromeda Overbag.

I have found, as I have aged that I move a LOT more when sleeping and I also need a wider bag. With the combo systems I have had, one can easily tangle the two bags up and this really frosts my b*lls, literally! So, it strikes me that Patrick's solution might well eliminate this and the zippered combo may work very well.

New concepts often are reviled by many and take time to become accepted as a "better mousetrap"; I still have people on a BC forum trying to tell me how "old" bush techniques such as using blankets to sleep in and cast iron to cook in over a campfire are "better"than all this high-tech stuff...well, I have done LOTS of that and I do not pack blankets or a cast iron pan....

So, I am very eager to hear how this all works and am quite inclined to buy one as I need another synthetic bag for my wife to camp with me in the summer. Our Rottweiler likes to sleep with his "Mum" and I AIN'T having this on my good down bags. Let us know how this works for you as I am pretty sure I will order a Regulator system in due course.

looks like a hard place to sell fertilizer, too many players.

Glad to see your thread got back on track Kute, there's some good info and thoughts to be gleaned between the other stuff, and I too have been interested to see or hear real world experiences of the Regulator.


As an aside there are things I really like about the W bag I bought from Mark. I'm not sorry I bought it at all, it just didn't live up to the hype that was delivered before it actually existed for bping purposes.

My oldest boy has mine right now at an indoor sleepover, it stays in the stuff sack due to the ability to compress it and not lose as much loft or insulating capability as down or traditional synthetic bags.

Therefore on short notice from him that he needed a bag I grabbed it outa my MR Deluxe setup that now serves as my BOB, no stuffing it in a stuff sack as that's where it lives and it's a great bag for my boat as I keep it in there compressed the whole summer and it does well around water. So it does have it's uses, was relatively inexpensive so I wouldn't be upset if something happened to it i.e. stolen or damaged as I would if the same happened to my dedicated sheep bag.


Also appreciate you setting the record straight kute as to what transpired on the Kifaru message board originally, I was there too and your recollection was spot on from my memory.

To my way of thinking ain't no doubt that the maker of the bags Marc sells have a place, but it's amazing the difference you get from small manufacturers, some guys are open to design changes and will discuss them with you and if they bear merit often incorporate them into their products thus creating even a better version of their initial offering.

Others seem to foam at the mouth if you don't bow down before them and extoll their current offerings as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I've slept in quite a few different bags in various conditions averaging 60+ days afield for a number of years. Does that make me an expert? Hardly, but I do have some real world experience that I can't just chuck out the window when someone tries to tell me something that goes against my acquired knowledge.

I've slept in a bag at -25 to -30* F in no tent, just the bag thrown on a space blanket in the snow. I've also spent the night out with no bag when the temp dropped to the low teens, I survived both, but neither situation did I spend the whole night in blissful comfort.

I'm still a big fan of a draft collar, I've tried it both ways, so when someone tells me they are not necessary and in fact counterproductive they lose a bit of credibility with me on what else they say due to my own expereinces.

I have had very limited contact with Marc, but I can see where AkMtnhuntr might be coming from. Dealing with Marc on the phone and receiving my bag was a good experience. From my perspective at complete opposite ends of the spectrum of how I perceive him when he's posted both here and the Kifaru message board. In fact so much so that I've often been left to shake my head and think "WTF is up with that MT?"

He's certainly hunted Alaska and has some real world experience in such, but as I stated before, he ain't the only one, because of what I love to do, I end up associating often with people of like minded endeavors.

There's lots of ways to skin a cat in hunting up here, and nothing wrong with a guy that likes pop tarts versus bagels for part of his hunting system.

But this whole brouha reminds me of the guys that used to say 30-06, .270 won't get it done yada yada yada, when those of us that do it know either one will suffice.

For me it boils down to whom is making the .30-06 or the .270, who has earned my respect and repeat business, not just in the product they make, but how they conduct themselves.

I started out in life that most of my decisions were dollar driven but have been blessed that such is not the case anymore.

I can buy gear based on performance, value and whether I enjoy spending my dollar more with company A or B. What others do with their gear dollars is their business, but it seems from the thoughts I've seen posted here I am not alone in my thinking. YMMV

Good post 1ak, I didn't come on this thread to bash the Regulator bag as I know nothing about it other than what i've already posted. When I see a good friend of mine who owns a business and that business is being slammed I will do what I can to defend him and that was the case here. I've only hunted Alaska for 15 years so I'd like to think that my time in the wild hasn't been wasted, i've owned a bag or 3 myself. For those that are diehard Kifaru fanatics I hope the bag is everything you hoped it would be but for me, I will look elsewhere as that bag doesn't fit in my gear pile plus it is very cost prohibitive for me, I can do more with my money.

So, if I'm seeing this right:

Kifaru can make a 40-degree bag, 3 inches wider in girth than a Wiggy's 40-degree bag, and utilize Climashield; that bag will be more than a pound lighter than the Wiggy Bag, which also contains Climashield.

Oh, and add a draft collar!

Someone want to explain where the weight loss comes from, or is it just Rhino-magic?!

When you get done working on this for a while, I'll tell you the only answer possible.

And the pictures of the bags compressed are not doing it for me. One can plainly see that neither is fully compressed. I can work the same magic and make them both smaller.

I'm still with you guys, just a little busy in the store, that's all...!

Taylor

My English is not good, but i still want to express my feeling.
i don't read the whole story.
Just want to say, i will not buy anything from Wiggy, even your company is cheaper or better quailty (BUT I DON'T THINK SO).
The reason is that your company is dishonest. that's all.

And stop hijack and said something dis-constructive word in kutenay or other's link.

Mark

I'm with you on compression, having 5 W bags, they can compress more, of course we had to order larger stuff sacks as what was sent with did not quite do the trick.

With that coming direct from CO, I was surprised, but everyone makes shipping mistakes.

Making em lighter, I might could think that one through, since all our W bags are heavier than advertised.

Jeff

Kute- I got down to 20 last night (according to all the local weather reports...my Suunto thermometer read 15 right before the sun hit it this AM...).

I only took the top two sections of the MOB...no sleeves no foot section. I underestimated the forcast a bit.

I wore Smartwools, W's booties, Cabeleas Microtex pants, Smartwool top, Cabelas Microfleece turtleneck and a knit Carhart hat. My feet were cold until I covered them with a compression sack to keep the wind off them. I was using a Kifaru Supertarp w/ one side jacked up, so it was abit breezy underneath. This coupled w/ damp socks made for some chilly feet for a few hours. Laying in the fetal allowed me to pull them inside the bag w/ also helped...trouble is I'm a back sleeper, so they wound up sticking out of the bag most of the night.

The MOB feels like it'll come close to, if not hit, it's rating for me. Time will tell for sure.

So there you are...nothing too scientific, but none the less a report.

This is exzctly what I started this thread for, I want to hear from guys USING this new system in cold, wet places and their opinions of it. I really have no time for the BS from whomever concerning W bags as I am not interested, period.

I also don't really CARE about the never-ending blether about which insulation is supposedly "best", I am not exactly a beginner and have my own opinions of what is best for ME, where I live.

However, IF enough active campers/ramblers/hunters give reports like yours and Bush's earlier one, THEN I have some practical basis for deciding whether this is a wise choice for me.

IF, I buy one, I KNOW that Kifaru will stand behind it, BUT, given Canadian taxes, expensive shipping from CO and return, it will cost me about $200.00 to check it out in person. So, I would prefer to have some "hands-on" advice BEFORE making a decision....simple, eh?

Keep these reports coming, please, I post here EXACTLY for this type of report and am interested in everyone's experiences.

There wasn't much 'wet' about my overnight....maybe this weekend. The forcast says rain/snow for Friday...trouble is I'll be in my 8 man w/ a large stove...that kinda takes the fun right outta it...

ken the way I see it you gotta take one for the team!

Leave your pards inside the tipi while you go throw your bag out in the rain/snow.

It's in the name of scientific research don't you know?


Am thinking you can have a cup of hot joe in the a.m., well if you get permission from kute to do so.

Enjoy your weekend, thanks for the gear report.

Ok, I am not a big poster so I will give it a try. I bought a regualtor this year. I took it on a 10 day Sheep hunt in the Chugach and we headed in early to Scout so I ended up being in there a full 10 days before I got my sheep. We hiked to our camp fron the river bottom approx 4 miles through the Alders and set up camp. Camp never got moved so we day hiked from there each day so the bag stayed in the tent the whole time. The hunt was in late August so temps were maybe 35 at the coldest and I got the 20 degree base bag. I am 5'10 1/2 175 pounds. Also I do own a Wiggys 0 degree bag and I have no complaints but I also think it would benefit from some type of collar as I got a little chilled at times on a late Sept BC horse hunt for Goat and Moose but I never got cold though. Temps were 20 at the coldest

Kifaru beakdown

The bag was plenty warm and I never got cold once which should be expected from the temps.

The size of the bag was nice to carry as I used the Kifaru Long hunter and probably was a bit on the small side for the gear we had so I needed all the room I could get.

The size of the bag seems to constrict in the middle and get roomier in the foot area. Not nearly as comfy as the Wiggys but the size and weight was worth this compromise.

The material felt sort of silicony to me, almost slippery and this was probably my biggest complaint. It was not uncomfortable but I felt like I slid around a lot on the inside.

Overall the bag was great but the price is a little high for what you get as you could own multiple bags for a lot cheaper. Before I used it I had the overbag on my list of wants and I don't know now if I would purchase it until I spend more time in the bag and at colder temps.

Anyone in the Skagit/Snohomish County area that would like to check it out go ahead and PM me.

Pete

Thanks Randy...but there will no taking it for the team this weekend...I gonna pack a ton of crap and live big...lol...I think I'll just take the Woobie to toss over me in the event that the temps inside the tipi drop below 60...lol...

grin, some team player you turned out to be Ken!


Have a blast, there really is something to be said for a wood stove in cool to cold temps.

...lol...It aint over yet...I've some ideas kickin' around in my pea brain for some fun solo trips later on in the season...I've got 'till the first week in December...

This weekend should be 40's/20's with some rain/snow to start...nothing too seriuos...it's the steady 20's and freezing rain that makes things yucky...

My cousin and I just got back from a 10-day backpack hunt for elk in WA. We had a great time and were into elk every single day but, alas, we did not come across any spikes to fill our tags. The weather was decidedly bizarre for the William O. at this time of year. Early in the trip the temps in the deep/dark hole that we called home for most of the trip ranged from highs in the 40-50 range to lows in the lower 20's. From there it gradually warmed up and when we pulled up stakes for the haul-out yesterday morning the temperature was right at 50. Weird.

Anyway, he took his Regulator 20 that I posted a link to a review on earlier in this thread. He used a Downmat 9 Deluxe sleeping pad that I convinced him to buy. As a point of reference, he was the fastest white man in the PAC-10 his senior year of college and didn't gain much in the way of "insulation" during his time spent in the Special Forces since then. Think �lean� but tougher than nails and stronger than most guys with 50 lbs on him. Even though he has all the �go� a guy could possibly want, his resting metabolism is such that he will wake up a little on the chilled side, even while in the comforts of his own home, until his metabolism gets cranked up a bit with the start of the day. He slept with SmartWool shirt, bottoms and socks and wore a mid-weight fleece cap in the 20 degree bag without issue or complaint when the temps were down in the 20�s during the first part of the trip. Our physiques are nearly identical with me having a couple inches and about ten pounds on him, and as I mentioned in my prior review, I slept fine to the bags rating in a cotton t-shirt and boxers.

In short, he is very happy with the 20 Regulator bag and hopes that it will replace the crap that the military has been using. His only wish was that he had purchased the 20 degree MOB instead and would thus have a greater degree of utility. I�m suitably impressed with these synthetic bags and I've got a 0 or 20 Base coupled to a 20 MOB setup on my Christmas Wish List.

Helping the 67 year old uncle haul his cow out of a hole early one morning. We're almost back to his base camp and looking forward to eating some high quality chow.


Our 8-man tipi and large stove "spike" camp about 7.5 miles away in another drainage system. Yes, we were living large.


Took a couple of hours one mid-day to set in some firewood since it looked there might be a radical change in weather. Unfortunately, it got warmer instead of colder and nastier.


My side.


His side. (note the Regulator)



Ready for come what may...
[img]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d11/ARE001/WA%20Elk%20Hunt%202007/DSC02455.jpg[/img]

Anyway...back to sleeping bags...

The notion as it relates to comfortable sleep in the backcountry that an �overbag system must be one component only to maintain the ambient air temperature within a bag� is one that, in my opinion, is not very well thought out. Too anyone that would disagree with this, I�d ask them to reflect upon how many times they�ve woke up from a blissful slumber with their feet or lower legs comfortably poked out from under sheets. My goodness, I imagine the vast majority of us sleep in our homes with our heads fully exposed! The fact of the matter is that a person�s entire body need not have uniform insulative layering in order for one to sleep comfortably. Everyone is different and the modularity of the Kifaru sleeping system accounts for this.

I�d also add that any dismissive statement made about the Regulator�s shell material not being able to hack it in the wilds, from someone who has never even handled one of the Kifaru bags, is dubious at best. Patrick has selected some pretty sturdy material for the Regulator. I have no beef whatsoever in the whole Kifaru/Wiggy deal, but it is obvious that Mr. Taylor does not know what he is talking about with regard to the componentry of Kifaru�s sleeping bag system (since he has not personally handled one) and I�m left to ponder the true intentions of his posts regarding Kifaru�s Regulators.

As more and more people decide to give the new Kifaru bags a try in conditions that they were designed for, I�m sure the word will get out and Patrick Smith & Co. will be renowned not only for their excellent shelters and sturdy packs, but also for their sleeping bags.

Who knows...maybe he'll come out with a lighter, and better wader than those made by Wiggy and be known for that too! (it would be easy for Patrick, or anyone else for that matter, to improve upon the design by making the "tops" out of a much lighter material, make the hip straps longer for long legged folks, add a quick clip buckle instead of one that must be threaded, and swap out the string for good quality bungie cordage)
[img]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d11/ARE001/WA%20Elk%20Hunt%202007/DSC02517.jpg[/img]

informative post Bushcraft, thank you.

Hope you guys had a blast, the uncle is living the dream, bet he's a hoot to hunt with.

Great photos. Nice stack of wood too. I do know the heart brake of cutting a nice pile only to have the weather improve. One thing I like about he Kifaru tipi and stove is just how much shelter a few guys can pack in. Sometimes I look around with the fire going and can't believe we packed in a heated house. Looks like you are getting some good use out of that 8-man. Glad the sleeping bag worked.

Very helpful post, just what I wanted here. I gotta agree, having had a number of bags without a draught collar and also with, I won't have another one without.

Good on your 67 yr. old companion, shows that we old pharts still can drag our butts up the hil!!!

bushcraft,
Fantastic post and pic's! Thanks for sharing!

I don't have a dog in this tangential pissing match that appears to be occurring. I've also never used Kifaru's new Regulator bag system. I do however wish to make a point. I don't foresee me using my Kifaru Regulator (if and when I purchase one) as clothing. That is, with one huge exception. The idea is most appealing to me for those cold mornings when you crawl out of a warm bag into the extreme cold. The idea of only partially extricating myself from a nice toasty bag while I get things ready around camp is actually somewhat appealing. Just a thought.

I am the thread killer.

Doubt it.

Big meany!!!

Yah ain't the thread killer, AND you see the huge plus in the system, most of us carry a bit extra just in case.... carrying that parka in the pack is now a thing of the past... if it turns worse than expected you just use the top of the bag... Of course me using my parka as a pillow will be the end now.... may have to invest in an air pillow....

Generally, the feedback I'm reading from people who have bought these bags is good. The idea of a true-to-rating synthetic bag with those weights and a shell "that" resistant to the elements has been what I've been looking for.

I wished that they had run that whole m.o.b. thing as an option from the get-go. Personally, I would have no use for the whole modularity aspect. I would never use it as a clothing system, and I would never want to be dinking around with all those pieces of bag as my circumstances changed throughout the day. I'm not in any way saying it doesn't work; how the hell would I know, anyway? I think it just comes down to whether a person will accept the modularity aspects or not.

I'm still on the fence over the 20 degree main bag as my choice for a go-to synthetic. The decision would have been much easier for me, had they offered a 5 or 10 degree main bag in addition to the 20, and without all the zippers and m.o.b.-ready components. Just a stright-up 5 or 10 degree climashield-based mummy with a robust draft collar and bar-setting packed weight figures.

If anything, I'll wait a little longer for initial sales to settle down, and then try asking them if they would do a custom number to those specs. Meantime, I'm going to keep fiddling with down bags and Event bivysacks.

For what you want, an Integral Designs North Twin would be ideal and it is rated to 10*F, my experience is that ID bags are like Western Mountaineering and will work fine at lower than rated temps. The Andromeda Overbag for this, no zippers or anything is also a fine summer bag and the combo would weigh around 5 lbs. for a sub-zero bag that will perform in wet conditons.

I can honestly say, owning and using WM, FF, ID, Exped and having had a whack of others, that this is the most comfortable and most utilitarian bag(s) I have ever had and the quality is equal to WM. Something else to consider if Kifaru can't do a custom rig like you want...and I would as well.

Yeah, I've no reservation at all about getting a North Twin and calling it a day. That was where i left the issue last season and decided to hold my wallet until the regulator came along.

Thus far, if I know i have to run with synthetic, I still use the Wiggy Mountain hunter, but have to augment it heavily with clothing in order to have it work around it's supposed ratings. Maybe it's me, and I am a lean build, but the mountain hunter bag can't stand on it's own for me below about 30-35 degrees. Based on "where" I get cold, I'd say that the absence of the draft collar plays into this more than anything.

The Mountain Hunter that I bought has also lost a noteable amount of loft despite not being stored in a compressed state which is what has put me back on the market for a synthetic.

How old is that Mountain Hunter bag and where did you buy it? If it's losing loft you can get it repaired or replaced for free. I've got an Ultra Light that I've been using for about 2 years now and it has never let me down, course I may have a little more insulation on my body than you do.

Got it from Marc, around the time he first startted selling them. I always knew I could get him to make good on the loft issue, though that only occurred in 2007. At any rate, I figured I'd end up with a shiny new bag that still had a crappy drawcord, and no draft collar, so I decided to investigate other options. It won't be the first piece of kit that got phased out of my gear closet.

I know they have some rationale for the draft collar thing, though I never really understood it. Suffice to say that I happen to need one, and have faired better with every bag that I have owned which had one. I have owned 3 other Wiggy bags, superlight, overbag, and ultima thule-all have demonstrated a weakspot to my body where a draft collar did not exist.

Funniest, is that I've had the majority of my frustration with the fact that they made such constatnt use of a drawcord material akin to what is included in most payless shoes. Does anyone know if that has changed?

By the way, I gave up of caring about ANY of the figures in gear maufacture beyond my perspective as an end-user. I care less about deriding Marc Taylor, or anyone else. I will sleep just as warm or cold regardless whether the guys making all this stuff are millionaires or receiving food stamps. It's just business, which is proved by the fact that I stand to recieve no discount for going online and touting any given products value.

If Marc would take the bag back, fix the loft, add a draft collar, and replace that rotten cordage with actual bungee, I'd have to re-think this....

If I'm not mistaken...your Mnt Hunter has the same insulation top and bottom, right?? and you STILL get cold at 30? I doubt a draft collar is gonna make the Mtn Hunter a 10 degree bag for ya...

Ya, but, I bet a lady mountaineer would help keep him toasty, the man is on the RIGHT track!!!!

I still get cold at 30 in it. Always cold in torso and shoulders. Thing is, it doesn't happen in a Moonstone delta Minima (20 degree) at "it's" rated temps.

The above things I posted were never mean't to explain the Mountain Hunter as a 10 degree number. They would be to make it a viable 20-25degree bag.

All based on me wearing an Icebreaker baselayer and fleece watchcap.

Good luck getting any kind of warranty work done from Wiggys. My bag has lost considerable loft and I was told by the "man" himself that the K-Special/Mountain Hunter did not have the same guarantee as his other bags. He also told me that there could be no loss of loft, and that if there was it was something that I must have done to it. I agree that lack of draft collar is major contributor to these bags not getting close to their ratings. Every time I turn over I get a blast of cold air around my shoulders, I have a hard time sleeping when that happens.

Mark might be a better guy to do business with, but I don't know. Maybe he will chime in here and offer to replace it for me.

He can replace mine also, It's lost it's loft. Bought it from Taylor when he was selling on Kifaru's web site

I won't bother returning it. A loss is a loss to me. All I will get back is an archaic design with another dose of loft that obviously diminishes despite the claims of the maker/seller.

Rather, I'll take my bag to various gatherings (Yes, that means Rondy's, too) and let others see the bag for themselves.

Will keep shopping. As I stated before, the drawcord and lack of collar are just silly and I couldn't take seriously a proponent of this stuff who tried to defend these 2 shortcomings.

Good God! At the least I recall them both touting how the loft was a shoe-in despite storage. I got a Superlite that defies that, as well. Kind of bugs me when the "Mountain hunter project" was underway. Seems that when it was easily called the Kifaru-Special a lot was promised-to include loft. Seems also that NOTHING was guaranteed by the maker. So, I spent $190, got a [Kifaru-special-mountainhunter-lamilite is king-but won't promise such; in weight or temp., but "HOPE YOU DON"T FREEZE TO DEATH!!!] bag and have looked for better since the first trip I tried it.

I've found the same failures in the superlite wiggy bag that I have in the mountain-hunter bag. It seems that the failure rates, relative to loft, may have something how much loft the bag starts with. Nonetheless, they lose it.

If Wiggy's made a bag that actually worked beyond the limits asuaged by base camp, I would consider it. For now, they are a firm based on touting the past, promising utopia, and delivering a bag that is not comensurate with their price.

Would think that they would at least conceed that that the cordage is silly. That they don't even admit that, tells me they are not willing to advance. Why should I invewst a cent in an outfit that tells "me" what "I" need??

I think I saved the post from the Kifaru board or maybe an e-mail by Jerry that said that the K-special would have the same warranty with respect to insulation, loft, and durability as all his other bags. I guess it really doesn't matter, I have moved on to better things. I would let them replace the bag as a matter of principle and we do use them when the conditions are mild so all was not a complete loss for me.

yep, hard to bullchit the players

Are you saying I'm full of it??

I don't get that impression, Ozark, I feel that 1Ak, who is a good guy, is agreeing with you.

Hope so, as my impression-opinion agrees with Chawns and yours.

I don't get anything from Taylor or Wiggy but I like their bags and will continue too as long as they work for me. I don't need a draft collar and have never got cold in my Ultra-Light, which is a 20 degree bag. I will never use another sleeping bag that doesn't have a laminated fill, and preferably Climashield. I've owned several different bags in the past and they all over time lost their loft due to crappy fill material. I have no dog in this fight but we did manage to get this thread turned around only to have the Wiggy hate fest start up again. If you don't want or like Wggy's bags then don't buy them, it's your money so buy what you want. Is it possible to let this go and get back to what this thread is suppose to be about?

Sorry Ak,I too am fed up with the entire Wiggy's debate and I guess the re-emergence of "Wiggy" brought back some bad memories for me. I have a hard time letting things go after I have been treated the way that a$$ treated me. As we all know, everyone has their own comfort levels, and I'm glad they work for you.

So back to the original topic, I am currently putting the Regulator through it's paces and so far I am happy with it. I haven't had it down below 26 yet, so a good test of it's ratings is still in the future for me.

Not to worry ozark, stuff happens. Sorry you had to deal with J Wiggetow and you were treated like you were, thats why I strictly deal with Taylor. From what i've seen and heard over the last few years he seems to be his own worst enemy, thats to bad because he makes some very good products. Hopefully you all will get more info on the Regulator that will help you decide either way.

Like I said, I have nothing personal with any of the guys in these issues. It certainly isn't like I want them to fail. Some of the stuff doesn't work, some of it does.

I'm interested to start hearing user feedback comparing climashield stuff to the typical polarguard materials we've all used...

nope not at all, in fact I agree with the majority of your posts and it mirrors my experience with bags.

a guy that used to hang out here often opined "you can bullchit the fans all you want, but not the players"

this thread just seemed an appropriate place to insert it.

Several guys that I know have BTDT, have the same take on bags it seems.

If the Wiggy bags work well for Marc, AkMtnHntr or Jeff or whomever more power to them. Still use mine as a have along in my boat. Due to the price I'm not sorry I bought it, but there are definitely better choices in a bping bag for me, and it appears quite a few others as well, apparently including you ozarkrambler.

Hey wait a minute I'm originally from the Ozarks too (Spfd. Joplin area) so I take it back you must be full of chit! (grin, just funnin ya ozrambler)