Anything else come close?

Needing a new stove...

VAnimrod:

Not a lot of info in your post, so not sure what you're asking. If you are asking if any other stoves are as good as the SVEA 123, then the answer is definitely yes. The SVEA 123 is an elegant stove that was leading edge technology 50 years ago, but today there are many modern stoves that offer better performance for less weight and come in smaller packages.

STOVE/FUEL COMPARISON

I own a dozen or so stoves, so many that it�s hard to keep track, and I have discarded, sold or given away several more. I own and operate, or have operated, or have seen operated just about every kind of stove that�s on the market today or has been on the market for the last fifty years.

I�ll discuss fuel first. The most common types of fuel include wood, white gas, kerosene, Isobutane, propane, Sterno, and alcohol. Other less common types include butane, unleaded gas and diesel. Each has its� advantages and disadvantages.

Archeologists have discovered the remnants of fire pits in excavation dating from about 100,000 years ago. So human beings have burned wood for heat and/or cooking for about that long. You have to know how to get a fire going and in today�s increasingly urbanized world, some people just simply haven�t had much experience. Wood cook fires will coat your pots in messy soot and that can get inside your pack if you don�t clean them properly before packing. It takes longer to cook over a campfire since you have to get the fire going, burn enough wood to create a good bed of coals, then wait for the fire to die down some so you can get close enough to the fire to start cooking. Today, many people are reluctant to have a campfire because of the impact on the environment. This is most obvious in high-use areas such as US Forest Service campgrounds and other high-use places where people camp often. No matter how you burn wood, you have to deal with smoke. Wood is lightweight since you don�t carry it at all, you pick it up at camp and it can be used for heat as well as for cooking. The price of wood is right since it can be gathered free from the environment.

White gas is a clean (filtered) form of gasoline and it is a petroleum product. White gas is most often pressurized, usually with a pump, at the point of use. It burns clean and develops high BTU output at just about any ambient air temperature. White gas is moderately priced when considered on a per unit basis, compared to other fuels.

Unleaded gasoline is that which runs your car. It is not as clean as white gas and consequently it can clog tiny orifices like those in the jets of small camp stoves. But unleaded is cheaper than white gas.

Kerosene is also a petroleum distillate and it delivers more BTUs per unit than gasoline but it creates soot in its� flame and it is not as clean as white gas, so it has a tendency to clog tiny orifices like those in stove jets, just like unleaded gas. Kerosene is inexpensive compared to other fuels.

Butane and propane must be discussed together. Butane is a form of natural gas. Propane is a petroleum product. Butane produces fewer BTUs per unit than propane so it can be stored in thin walled containers, usually canisters with a threaded valve on top. Propane is more volatile so it must be stored in thick heavy canisters. Isobutane is a mixture of 70% butane and 30% propane that produces more BTUs than pure butane but still can be stored in lightweight, thin-walled canisters. Pure butane is rarely used in camp stoves today. Propane is very popular for a variety of camp appliances when weight and bulk are not concerns. Butane will not atomize at temperatures below freezing. Isobutane is relatively expensive on a per unit basis. Propane is less expensive than Isobutane but more expensive than white gas, when considered on a per unit basis.

Alcohol is a distillate from the fermentation of just about any organic material. Rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) produces soot that will blacken pots. Denatured alcohol does not produce soot and it produces more BTUs per unit than does rubbing alcohol. Typically, alcohol is burned without pressurization and you can�t see the flame. Alcohol will deteriorate aluminum so you have to carry it in plastic containers. Alcohol is moderately priced compared to other fuels.

Sterno and Esbit are brand names for a product that is offered as a solid cube, wafer or in a can. The solid is impregnated with alcohol. If you�ve ever gone through a buffet line, you probably have seen the small Sterno cans burning away under the pans containing hot food. Canned Sterno contains a gelatin that holds the alcohol. When I was in Viet Nam, we used a mixture of C-4 and peanut butter to heat C-rations and we used Sterno tabs to get the mixture burning. We didn�t heat with Sterno tabs because it took too many tabs and it was too slow. Sterno is expensive when considered on a per unit basis.

Today, there are many types of small, lightweight stoves used by backpackers and campers and most are effective for their intended purpose when used within their design parameters.

The first widely available camp stove in the U.S. was invented by Coleman, starting with Model 1, in 1923, and they�ve gone through various changes over the years. The modern Coleman two burner stove is essentially the same as the Model 9C developed in 1927. I�ve heard them referred to as �suitcase stoves� and if you�ve done much base camping, you�ve probably used one or a variation thereof. Typically they have two burners and a fold-down wind screen. Some of the early models were designed to burn kerosene but the most common are those that burn white gas. Today they are available in multi-fuel varieties that can also burn unleaded. You have to occasionally pump the fuel tank during operation to maintain pressure. The same two-burner design is also available today using propane, which eliminates the need for pumping. The fuel tank or a propane cylinder can be stored inside the case. They are too bulky and heavy for backpacking but they are still a mainstay in base camping.

Coleman invented a single-burner, cylinder stove, model 520 that burned white gas, for use by GIs during WWII. The fuel tank is attached on the bottom of the stove and it fits inside two cylindrical aluminum pots that twist together. My father had one when I was a kid but it eventually developed a leak in the fuel tank and it was cheaper to replace it with a new stove than it was to have the leak brazed shut. In their day, they were about the best thing available for lightweight camping. They haven�t been in production for decades and are now looked upon as antiques. However, that is a proven design and the compact, single-burner, liquid fuel stoves that Coleman offers today, like the 442 and the Omni-fuel, are direct descendents. The only thing that�s missing is the twist-together pots.

There are a variety of small, lightweight wood burners on the market that significantly reduce the amount of wood that is used and consequently reduce the time that you have to wait before starting to cook. The Bushbuddy and the Firespout can be folded into a small lightweight package. Or you can fabricate your own from a coffee can using a can opener and a pair of tin snips.

Optimus starting manufacturing camp stoves that burn white gas, in Sweden in 1899, but they were not widely available in the U.S. until after WWII. They offered several models and the all-brass models are among the most elegant stoves ever produced. The SVEA 123 is an excellent example. Typically they are auto-generators, which means you have to prime them to get them started and heat from the fire eventually warms the fuel tank to make the fuel atomize. They don�t work well in extreme cold or in high winds because those elements reduce the effect of auto-generation. You can still see them on some store shelves today, but they are not hot items since other, more modern designs are more popular.

MSR started manufacturing the �XGK� stove about 50 years ago. It burns white gas and (according to the manufacturer) will also burn just about any kind of combustible liquid; unleaded gas, kerosene, JP4 jet fuel, perfume, high-proof liquor, alcohol, diesel, etc. It is built very sturdy and will take a lot of abuse but it�s heavy and bulky by modern standards for lightweight backpacking stoves. It�s still the stove of choice for Himalayan expeditions because white gas is not readily available in Nepal and kerosene is. The jets can be easily clogged by dirty types of fuel but MSR offers a jet designed for kerosene. It can be field maintained and repair kits are readily available. It has to be primed to get started and pumped occasionally during use. MSR also offers the �Whisperlite� stove. It�s a smaller, lighter version of the XGK and has been the mainstay of mountain climbers in the U.S. for several decades. It use to have problems with the jets getting clogged but modern �Shaker Jets� seem to have reduced that problem significantly. Like the XGK, it can be field maintained and repair kits are readily available. It also has to be primed to get started and pumped occasionally during use. It�s not very good at simmering. Another offering from MSR is the �Dragonfly� stove. It has a second valve that improves simmering capability. I own all three of these MSR stoves and I prefer the Dragonfly. I rebuild them occasionally and change the �O� rings on the fuel bottles annually. The XGK and Dragonfly produce a very powerful flame and I suspect that it�s powerful enough to sweat solder copper pipe.

Several companies offer small lightweight Isobutane stoves. They are very simple to operate bordering on idiot proof. Some have hoses that connect the canister to the stove and some stoves screw directly onto the top of the canister. I personally like the type that screws directly on top, because they are lighter and less bulky. I own a Hummingbird stove that is the hose type and it must be assembled/disassembled before and after use. But it becomes a reasonably compact package when disassembled. It is about twenty-five years old and it�s still available on store shelves and it costs only $30. The Coleman Peak One Mini Butane stove can be purchased at Wal Mart for $28. It just might be the best value offered for small lightweight isobutene stoves. I also own an MSR �Pocket Rocket� and an Optimus �Crux� that screw on top. Both are excellent stoves. The Crux can be placed into a small pouch that fits inside the dome on the bottom of an Isobutane canister, so the finished package is extremely compact. The Pocket Rocket fits into a small plastic container provided by the manufacturer. They do not require any assembly or maintenance. Either they work and you continue using them or they don�t work and you throw them away. I have only discarded one Isobutane stove since 1972. It was still working after about twenty years of use, but the pot stand connectors eventually broke. Isobutane is a mixture of propane and butane, and butane does not atomize at temps below freezing. So if you use one in freezing temperatures, it performs poorly while the propane burns off and stops working all together when there�s nothing left but butane. The empty canisters tend to accumulate on a long expedition and waste volume in your pack while carrying them back to civilization. I recently saw a friend break out his new Snow Peak stove and use it to heat a cup of tea on a day hike. It�s similar to the Pocket Rocket and Crux. The Coleman F1 Ultralite is another similar design.

The Jetboil and MSR Reactor are Isobutane stoves that come with a combination wind screen/flue/pot stand that makes them very efficient users of fuel. They are designed for boiling water and they accomplish this task more efficiently than most other stoves, which means you can carry less fuel. They are not very good for cooking (like frying fish or simmering a casserole) but if all you need to do is boil water to re-hydrate freeze-dried food, one of those stoves might be your best choice.

The Primus Omnifuel and the Coleman Firestorm stoves have a fuel tank and pump for burning white gas and they will also accept Isobutane canisters. That seems like a good idea on the surface. However, the best thing about Isobutane stoves is that they are so lightweight and compact. So they are the best choice for ultra-lightweight summer backpacking. However, the Primus Omnifuel and Coleman Firestorm are neither lightweight nor compact when compared to other Isobutane stoves. So if you use one in the summer and burn Isobutane then you would be combining all the disadvantages of white gas stoves and Isobutane stoves. A friend tells me that his works fine in cold conditions when burning white gas, and as good as an MSR Whisperlite. So if you wanted to buy only one stove and use it in every situation, then a Primus Omnifuel or Coleman Firestorm stove might be your best option.

I own a small Safesport alcohol burner stove. It�s not quite as small and light as the Pocket Rocket or Crux, but it�s close. It takes a long time to get started and alcohol delivers fewer BTUs per unit than white gas so it takes more fuel to boil a given amount of water. Trangia might be the biggest manufacturer of alcohol stoves. They are absolutely silent when operating. So if you want a hot cup of coffee in a blind and don�t want to make any noise, it�s the way to go.

I own several propane appliances; stoves, lanterns and space heaters. Generally they are of the brand �X� variety bought at Wal Mart, K Mart or Target. They are inexpensive, simply made and so easy to operate that they are almost idiot proof. The fuel canisters are big and heavy so not good for backpacking. I use them exclusively for base camping because they are so convenient. There�s no priming, no pumping and no maintenance. Just turn on the knob, light them and they work.

All stoves have their various hazards. Alcohol stoves can be spilled and you could get burning fuel on you and your gear/tent and you can't even see the flames. Most white gas stoves require some priming and that can create fire a hazard if too much fuel is used for priming. On rare occasions, white gas fuel bottles/pumps can leak and the dripping fuel can catch fire. Any fuel bottle with old "O" rings can leak so keep the "O" rings fresh and new. Butane canister stoves can experience some problems but it seems less prevalent in them because we usually use the canisters soon after buying them so the "O" rings don't have time to go bad. I see that Jetboil currently has a voluntary recall of one of its' control valves because it occasionally but rarely leaks. Propane canisters can also leak if they are stored too long. It�s possible to accidentally leave the valve open on most Isobutane and propane appliances and that can result in filling a tent with volatile gas just waiting to explode or asphyxiate someone. So it�s very important to close the valve securely every time you use the item.

I use Isobutane canister stoves for ultra-light summer backpacking because they are lightweight, compact and simple to operate.

I use white gas stoves for winter camping and for trips into the Alaska bush because they operate effectively in sub-freezing temperatures and I haven�t seen Isobutane canisters on the store shelves in Alaskan bush communities.

I use propane appliances for base camping because propane is less expensive than Isobutane and because propane appliances are more convenient to operate than white gas appliances. I don�t care about the weight/bulk of the propane canisters when base camping.

KC

Okay, KC, what's your recommendation, then? Figure a "do everything" stove (hahahaha)...

Basically, a ".30-06" of stoves: handle everything you throw at it; perhaps not the absolute best in any one category, but good enough in all, or at least the vast majority of most of them, to get it done well enough.

For me it would be a MSR whisperlite international. Its a pretty good do everything well type stove.

Although I still hold a soft spot in my heart for the original XGK as well.

Now if I didn't already have the other two stoves listed. I would be looking hard at a new MSR simmerlite.

The Coleman Multi Fuel stove gets alot of press, the boy scouts and mid east troops use them. I bought one last year after considering the SVEA, and it works just fine in cold temps. I do think the older Coleman models were built better, but heavier of course. If weight is not a concern the Coleman Dual fuel model might be a more rugged choice.

MtnHtr

Vanimrod:

I guess if you want just one stove for all backpacking situations then the 30-06 of backpacking stoves would be either the Primus "Omnifuel"

http://www.primuscamping.com/product.php?id=3

or the Coleman "Fyrestorm".

http://www.coleman.com/coleman/cole...=9775-A25&categoryid=2005&brand=

They are both reasonably lightweight (though not the lightest) and you can burn isobutane in the summer and white gas in the winter.

BTW I just grabbed the manufacturer's web sites for these stoves which indicate MSRP pricing. You can find petter prices if you shop around.

KC

There are lots of ways to compare them, and the little old SVEA still has pros and cons when compared with more recent designs. Thirty years ago I didn't think the 123 was the best stove out there, but I liked it then in many ways, and it still does exactly what it did back then just as well. It's pretty difficult not to have a soft spot for such a great, simple, compact, rugged little stove, even if it is old.

I have a whisperlite int'l and a pocket rocket rocket. But I've always wanted a simmerlite as a do-all backpacking stove.

I agree with Eric here... if a multi-fuel is wanted, hard to beat the Whisperlite International. I had an XGK, but found my Svea 123 boiled faster, and was easier to use... but that was in the mid 1980's.

I guess I'd call the Whisperlite Int'l the "30-06" of stoves and the Simmerlite the "308" of stoves.

For whitegas only, Simmerlite is awesome and is mostly what I use these days, although I still use the Svea 123... and Jetboil, and Snowpeak Giga.

No experience with it but I would take a hard look at the new Soto Muka stove No priming, less parts = less to go wrong.





MtnHtr

Only problem with the Soto Muka is the extravagant price... and it's heavier than the Simmerlite.

That in my opinion is whats so great about MSR stoves. Keep them clean they will run forever. If they do break they are super easy to work on and don't require many extra parts.

That said I just bought a Jetboil Ti. Oh the humanity

Brad, REI has the Soto for $148, with their 20% off coupon it could be had for around $120 plus some change - click here. I would not term that an extravagant price. The Soto's pump assy might be better over the MSR's -certainly easier to use judging by the video. Pard had his MSR pump fail in the field one cold snowy nite, both he and I sold our MSR Whisperlites.

MtnHtr

I have had one of those Primus Omnifuel stoves since about 2002, and I have used it with many fuels (as have several technicians and others who worked for me).

Everything has worked perfectly all the time -- in spite of being dropped, operated by novices, crushed by heavier stuff in the helicopter, etc.

No complaints at all, but I have to admit that I am glad to see that KC gives it a thumbs up as a "jack of all trades" stove.

I bought this stove on somebody's recommendation without knowing that there was in fact a religion around stoves -- and evidently KC is one of the high priests!

Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge, KC.

John

Jetboil rocks. I'd like to see the size of the new Zip Jetboil...

I could never get over the weight and bulk of the original but the Sol Ti is short (like the zip) and light. I think its suppose to be like 8.5oz.

The Soto is too new IMO to take that plunge... the fuel bottle (which you have to have because it's proprietary in size) is $21. So it's still $140 vs the $89 Whisperlite or $99 Simmerlite. And, of course, the 20% off coupon makes those even less expensive.

The new Soto "looks" awesome however the main criticism I've read about the Soto is that it requires quite a bit more pumping than the MSR's... I also can't find anywhere if it comes with a windscreen.

IMO time will tell if it's the next, greatest thing in stove technology. I'm willing to wait a couple years and marshal on with the tried and true MSR's.

Personally, I've never had an issue with years of using various MSR stoves but like all mechanical things they need to be maintained.

Cool Eric, I'll check it out. Finally dragged my butt over to Prolite last Friday... can't believe I haven't been over there til now. What a great little storefront and good folks to visit with!

The old (mine is 34 yrs old) SVEA 123's are awesome, I've heard nothing good about the new ones. If you are a tinkerer, score one of the old ones and rebuild it. You don't want the self cleaner, IMO.

MSR liquid fuel stoves MUST have the pump rebuilt fairly often with constant use, I'd say yearly. If not, you'll have a fireball on your hands. A friend kicked his into the creek to put it out.

I've read that the Optimus Nova is the most bulletproof stove out there currently.

Hey Eric, can you fit the stove and a small canister nested in the Sol Ti like the original?

I agree... I've got a 36 year old 123 that doesn't have the problematic "self cleaning" apparatus the new ones have and which apparently cause all the issues. Mine has years of use and will burn auto fuel as well. Still going strong.

Yup its a pretty awesome store. I love how they have a digi scale right in the open so you can just weigh whatever you want

Great analogy there!

I've never used the multi-fuel feature of the whisperlite. Nice feature but only useful if I was on a boat or ATV or vehicle based trip and ran out of white gas...but if vehicle based I probably have enough white gas. Hence my desire for the simmerlite, but with four backpacking stoves in the arsenal it's hard to justify another $100 purchase.

I bought my Pocket Rocket for a solo trip that also involved flying commerical air. Has any flown the MSR white gas stoves? It seems that if you bought fuel and fuel bottle at the destination, you'd be fine to fly the stove. However, the Denver airport has a Whisperlite in their glass showcase of "prohibited items."

Might not have seen the question Eric...

Yep, and thats why the MSR liquid fuel stoves cannot be considered in the 30/06 class of stoves as asked by the OP.

Ours were the older "gray" pump models and my pard's failed when he needed it the most (cold and dark conditions) - one of the parts cracked and it came apart in the dark.

MtnHtr

In other words an older generation part...

You sure can.

Great... now you got me thinking and that's a dangerous thing.

Where'd you get yours Eric?

Whelp with hours waning on my 20% discount at REI I took the plunge on the SOTO. After discount and dividend it was $43 so we'll see what I think about it. Figure I already run the SOTO canister stove.....why not complete the ensemble.

Slut

PS Luke, report back with a review if you would...

HAHA takes one to know one

Will do on the reports on how it compares to my Whisperlite.

They fixed that problem years ago. The pump O ring would often fail due to improper maintenance. The new pumps actually self purge instead of leaking fuel all over like the old ones would. Also the valve that lets fuel flow is now metal so it wont crack and leak.

When I worked in bike/ski shops we often did double duty fixing stoves for people. We often could not repair Primus, Brunton, Snowpeak, Etc. The MSR and Coleman stoves were quick and easy. It's not that the other stoves are bad stoves it was just often we could not get the parts. Where as MSR and Coleman parts are plentiful and easily replaced. The whisperlite, Dragonfly and XGK can be rebuilt and cleaned in minutes.

I would not venture out on any kind of extended trip with out spare parts for any stove.

Ain't that the truth... have sold 6 packs in the last 6 weeks.

I think they've been multiplying in the closet

The newer gen pumps still have issues. I almost bought a newer pump but they are failure prone as well even with constant upkeep.

MtnHtr

I snagged it from jetboil. They are kinda hard to find right now. You should be able to just buy the pot if you wanted to upgrade your original.

So a $99 stove that requires a yearly $15 MSR "Annual" Stove Maintenance Kit to keep it going is termed the 30/06 class of stoves?

I'll pass if I were in the market for a new stove.


MtnHtr

Based on what experience of your own?

That's kind of what I was thinking...

No as long as you keep them maintained they last for years.

MSR is not alone in pump failure. I saw all stove company's pumps fail. The most common reason was not lubricating the O rings. If you think about it you need to keep the o rings lubricated weather they are rubber or leather. White gas is a solvent and often leaks into the pump assemblies. If you don't lube them often they fail.

One kit will last a really long time. The most common failure is the O rings. If you want to buy the kit it should last you a lifetime.

All you have to do to keep them running strong is clean the fuel line, clean the jet and lube the pump. It takes about 3 minutes.

I put 2 or 3 kits in mine over the years with no issues but I did not use my MSR every year either (bought in '87). I was present when my pard's failed however. He wound up using a cheapo Peak One canister stove I brought up, and I had enough sense to cover some firewood with plastic a few weeks before. The newer MSR pump models still have check valve issues I was told so down the road it went.

It only takes one failure in the backcountry under adverse conditions to develop a sour taste, and I prefer to focus on the hunt instead of fiddling with fussy equipment.

Another reason I ditched the MSR pump was from a hunters perspective, when on the move I stored the pump assy in two HD ziplocks to keep it clean. But I know I was giving off fuel fumes though I could not smell it. And don't ever get Coleman (WG) fuel on your hunting clothing - ask me how I know. The MSR pumps are fine for the yuppie backpacker crowd.

MtnHtr

Too funny... that crowd, both climbers and backpackers, log 10's of thousand's more miles both vertical and horizontal than the hunting fraternity will ever dream of.

Carry on with your fantasy...

Must've struck a nerve there, sorry Bradley! Too funny....

MtnHtr

No nerve struck Stacy. However, your ignorance is on display for ALL to see and THAT is funny...

I read somewhere a couple of years ago (BPL?) that the old SVEA's were becoming quite scarce 'cause climbers, who'd be MSR'ed once to often, were scarfing them up.

North country canoeist Cliff Jacobsen is a noted adventurer, having many dozens of multi-week canoe trips in Canada. He used to rely on the old Optimus box stove. He now uses the Optimus Nova, he's tried them all.

Aside from the better support of the various MSR's and lighter weight, I prefer the old SVEA on nearly every other count.

On the SVEA 123 angle, is there any way to retro a new one with the "problem" to the old style?

Nope.

How big of a "problem" is the "problem"?

BTW - Brad, the sig line rocks...

VA, as I recall it's mostly related to slightly slower boil times than the non self-cleaning version that Take-a-knee and I both have.

Thanks

That, um, doesn't sound like that much of a "problem", IMHO.

But, I'm asking to learn.

If I got the "guts" to a SVEA 123, old style, would it mate to the wind screen, body, tank, etc., of a new one?

I guess I'll have to get a real pretty dress too!!! ( slut )
I went thru 123 svea, whisperlight and have been using the Nova...but the
new Soto got my attention...STOVE INBOUND....

For the members who squeezed the trigger on the new Soto, I'll be interested to hear they work out.

MtnHtr

from what little I know..looks like REI has an exclusive...they have it backordered for about 2 weeks..

Guess folks were not concerned with the "extravagant price"!

MtnHtr

mine was 118.00 shipping included..yee-haw

I've had a Whsiperlite for almost 10 years now, it doesn't get a lot of use but I fired it up checking for the suspect leaks and such, luckily there weren't any. I've got the old pump model. When I got bored with the yard work yesterday I broke it down to give it a good cleaning. I wish there was a way to avoid the soot that I get when priming it without having to pack fire paste or alcohol in addition to white gas. The soot can clog the jet and seems to find its way on to my hands and eventually my other gear.

Been using a Super Cat alcohol stove for almost all of my stove needs the last 2-3 years.

As for clogging the jet you can mod your whisperlite with a shaker jet if it doesn't have one already.

I have my dads svea 123, I don't know when he got it, but figure it's at least 60 years old. The downside of them are you have to prime them, you can't throttle them back, and they are loud.

The upside is they are pretty much bullet proof. The only thing I do to it is add fuel and run it.

I did pick up a coleman a few years ago, couldn't pass it up for $25 and admit being able to pump it up to prime, and the adjustable burner is nice. It is heavier than the svea, but not that bad.

Sveas were a pain to prime until I discovered lighter fluid. I just squirt it on the burner until it runs down the stem to fill the primer bowl, then throw in a match. Works great. Nice thing about them is that you can find fuel anywhere, which I can't say about the various canisters. It's not as handy, true, but you can usually find something flammable to put in the tank.

I carry a little plastic eyedropper. Just fill the little resevoir from the tank, let it burn and light. Below zero, you have to do it twice sometimes.

All this talk about SVEA 123 and not a mention of a SVEA's Huckleberry, the Sigg Cookset. This was the ultimate backcountry stove/pots integrated set back in the 70's. Not too bad today if your stove is still going strong. I've got a Sigg bottle top for a Sigg/Msr fuel bottle that has a pour spout, fill up the tank and put a little in the primer cup and boiling water in 5!

JohnDog

I was talking with Taylor about these stoves before Jetboil realeased them for sale. He had a brochure with all the specifics on it and after reading and comparing weights of the PCS and Sol Ti the total weight difference was only about an ounce difference. The listed weight of the Sol Ti is 8.5 oz but that doesn't include the pot support, fuel stabilizer or the pot. The PCS all up, weighs in at 15 oz. I bet if you weighed the Sol Ti along with the rest of the kit it will be close to the PCS in actual weight. I was thinking the Sol Ti would be significantly lighter than the PCS but it wasn't and the price difference between the 2 was significant.

Okay, so what I'm gathering is that the SVEA 123 may not be the '06 of the stove world. It's more like the SMLE .303British.

I can dig that...

If anyone happens to trip over one, or has one they don't want/need, let me know.

Sean, is this what your looking for?

http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/svea-climber-123r.html

Not exactly. I can get the new ones. Just looking for an old one, if someone has one out there...

OK, if I see one I will let you know.

Cool. Thanks.

I ain't holding my breath on one popping up, though...

There are a few on flea bay, but for what the prices are at, I'd likely look at a new msr.

The 8.5oz does not include the pot support, fuel stabilizer and measuring cup. It includes the pot I'm not going to be using anything but the pot, stove and lid. So that should put me around 8.5oz in the pack. Maybe a little lighter after I get done with the razor blade The weight is great but the regulated burner is the upgrade I feel is most important to me. So all together I felt it was a very worthy upgrade.

So it comes with a measuring cup and a pot? My Jetboil measuring cup is the pot.

Yea there is a plastic measuring cup. Why? beats the heck out of me

Check out this video it gives a pretty good description of it. I will post some pic's of mine when I get it as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnd8hDa16cg

I can tell you the empty original jetboil up w/o cozy, lid, bottom cut is 6 oz. I cut mine down 1.75" to be just big enough to house a canister, my SOTO stove, and pot support and w/o cozy,lid, bottom cup its 4.4 oz and still easily holds 500 ML of water as I don't need the rest of the volume of the pot or the little be of weight because the SOTO stove I use is MUCH smaller and lighter.

The bottom cup is 1 oz even and the top lid is 1.3 oz.

My setup with everyone but the bottom cup (like to bring a TI mug along instead (more versatile) comes to 15.6 oz including a 7 oz fuel canister.

The standard jetboil cup with everything included and the standard jetboil stove except for the bottom cup is 20.6 oz.

Just some numbers you look over. The for me it was nice to drop 25% of the weight off my cooking setup, get faster cook times and have it take up less volume in my pack. Those shawty TI jetboils ought to do similar things but w/o the effort of having to cut your original down and put another bevel on it.

That look real good Al. Curious how you rolled the lip?

The sol Ti with a canister should come in pretty close to that weight. That is without all the extras they include.

Not sure how exactly the bevel was achieved. I told the guy I work with how short to cut it and if he could put a bevel in it that would make the lid fit snug once again. Also that I wanted 3 notches in the bottom cut 120 degrees apart to fit the stove in the bottom. He went down to the machine shop after hours and put it on the lathe and came back a little be later with the finished product.

Here's a read on the history of the Svea123. It's older than most of us. SVEA123

VAnimrod:

I have a beauty SVEA 123 that I haven't used in maybe twenty or thirty years. But I wouldn't part with it. It's just too much like a work of art.

KC

So.... Concerning finding "something flammable" ; can you burn any kind of gas in the SVEA?? I thought it had to be white gas. I have a SVEA that I bought a few years ago ( the kind with the jet cleaner that you manually turn to clean) at a REI "scratch and dent" sale for a song.

I thought it was a great little stove and have used it a few times on the pickup tailgate while truck camping. I always thought it was a little heavy for backpack hunting. But it is a charming elegant little stove that is a work horse and it would be even more convenient if it could burn multiple fuels??

You can, but it'll make a LOT more soot. Mine is the old one that has to have the jet cleaned manually, and it has to be cleaned more often. There are also additives in gasoline, the combustive by-products of which, might not be too healthy to breathe.

You can get a whole lot of meals out of a gal of Coleman fuel. I wouldn't waste time with unleaded gas. Coleman just isn't that expensive.

Ya bastid...

Totally agree with what your saying. I was just inquiring since the SVEA is not my main stove. I am either using bigger propane setups for truck/tent camping or I am using Iso/Bu canister stoves or solid fuel (tabs) for backpack hunts. I just sometimes have the SVEA along for a back up to my larger propane base camp/truck stoves.

So with the SVEA, I mostly just bring it itself with the fuel in it. I usually do not bring along extra white gas since I do not run it with my usual set-ups. I just was thinking if the SVEA could use unleaded gas, I could find that anywhere (just about) if I was on a trip and needed to get some for it.

Thanks for the response

VA

SVEA are rock solid, actually rock solid good and rock solid heavy. Not getting gram counting like, but that is the main thought when you compare the SVEA to a ultralight.

You need the SVEA pump to get it operating +100% fast - http://shopping.redorbit.com/product/optimus-svea-pump-7434896/index.html

They are built to last. I have a garage sale find SVEA stove, fired up the first time I fueled it (looks like it was to Everest and back or a Boy Scout used it for 50 years, maybe both....).

You decided on the key decision point with a stove, fuel, liquid, cannister or other. Cannister fuel stoves light faster but 'can' get finnicky at high altitude because the fuel separates and potential temp related issues.

The fastest lighting liquid stove I have used is a Primus multi-fuel. No switching jets, just connect it to the fuel of choice.

The MSR line is all about the same for liquid fuel, just choose your weight and size to stabalize the kettle/pan best. That said I have cooked (boiled water) in 10Q pots using a Whisperlite and a DragonFly, both cook times were the same, the DragonFly is a more stable base for that size cooking pot/weight.

For simplicity with liquid fuel, the Coleman multi-fuel stoves are about the same weight as a SVEA. They light fast and go to hot fast.

The other consideration is flame control. Most liquid fuel stoves are off or high. Not many give you low, medium and high temp/flame control.

You can really stretch your fuel with a wind screen/break (heavy foil works fine).


Durable - plastic is fine, I have only seen one MSR plastic pump break in 15 years on the trail. The o-rings last.

IME, the pump is absolutely not needed.

Carry an eye-dropper, douse the primer cup and set it on fire... time it correctly and as the last of the priming flame is dying turn on the stove and it will roar to life.

Have used the 123 from over 100F to -20F and have never had an issue with lighting it to max pressure with an eyedropper.

With the invention of the small hollow plastic coffee stir stick, it became the perfect simple priming tool for the SVEA 123, and I thought at one point, everyone used one to light the stove.

Best

I always thought the stir required to much coordination... I just stick with the barbarian-proof eyedropper

I once dated a gal that had to ask me one time, "what kind of neanderthal are you?"

I said...uhh, reg'lar?

This thread reminds me that I need to fire up my 123 again. It's been a while.

GOT ONE!

Old one....

Cooler than the other side of the pillow.

Doing a test run now.... Hint: the chain for the wrench gets stupid hot; don't touch with your thumb...

Will clean her up this weekend and get a couple pics.

Yeah, I can dig it...

Congratulations. Yeah, don't leave that little paddle handle on the stem when its burning, the sucker gets hot.

Tweren't the stem; grabbed the chain by mistake... It gets hot, too...

I learned years ago about how hot that wrench can get. Ouch. I have an old one that I got 25, 30 years ago. Then when my brother died last year, I got another one. Both work great.

Fire will do that!

If a person was going to sell his Svea 123 (old style with the slanted valve) in good condition, what are they worth nowadays?

I have one that I am not using and may be willing to part with.

Charlie
[email protected]

On EBay, under completed auctions they have sold from $40-$110 Plenty in the $75-80 range.

I'm not sure what the difference in pricing would be with different models of the Svea 123.

Nobody has mentioned the 1 drawback of the Svea - it's a bit too tall and skinny so it's easy to dump your pot. It could use a wider base or some kind of legs for support.

RC, in theory that's correct, but the truth is I've never dumped mine but I also haven't used it much since the early 1990's. Still, it has several hundred days of use on it.

Maybe you're just not a klutz. I haven't had mine go over yet, either, but I've certainly given it a few good opportunities.

I haven't used mine in a long time either. It's a great stove, but most guys just don't like all the dinking around to start it when with others you can just throw in a match and be done with it.

I prefer the Svea's ease of use over any MSR stove I've owned. Only real objection I have is it's weight/bulk. That's it.

Maybe someone will make a Nuevo 123 in Ti I'd be an owner.

I believe I could light the 123 in my sleep!

A Ti 123?

I'd be in love.....

That would be cool wouldn't it!

Cooler than the other side of the pillow....

No, far cooler than that, even.

Trying to figure if I know anyone that works with Ti well enough to give it a run.

I can see a new start-up business

Damn....

Titanium has about 52% the mass of brass.

The SVEA 123, all up with the cup/pot/lid and a tank full, weighs 21 oz. A Ti version, all up, with a Ti cup/pot/lid and a tank full, would weigh about 11 to 12 oz.

Damn.... I'm SO wanting one.

Amen........

Do you know anyone who can work Ti?

Only guy I know is schmalts here on the forum... he does the Ti Kimber bolt handle.

Well, let's get on him, man......

BTW - yard work waiting a few.... BLS "Spoke in the Wheel" just rolled up on Pandora. Can't cut that short.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5178074#Post5178074

I've been itching to own a Svea for years. This thread finally pushed me over the top. I snagged a non-R model on fleabay today, and from the photos it looks basically NIB with all the tools. Thanks for the push Sean.

what is a "non-R model"?

I'm not sure what "R" stands for, but it's all the stoves produced since the early 70's. They have a different valve (the only moving part) which incorporates a built in needle for cleaning the jet. The pre-R's have a separate little needle tool for poking the jet from the outside. The easiest way to tell the two stoves apart is by looking at the valve itself. The early stoves have valve that angles slightly downward, while the "R" models are perpendicular to the main stem and slightly bulkier too.

Here's a photo of the two models.
SVEA123 vs 123R

Interesting thread!

I am in Sweden and these stoves are everywhere. If you meet somebody on a hiking trail and stop to share a coffee, this is the stove that often comes out of the backpack even today.

Until reading this thread, I had no idea that this particular stove was the subject of so much interest!

John

Living in Sweden, you might be taking several things for granted that American guys would appreciate.........

You could be right...







John

Where do they find those girls? The only native born Swedish girl I've ever knowingly met topped 225 and was as homely as a mud fence.

Anyway - both of my stoves are the old version. Under the cup, they have a little metal thing with a fold out pick. It's very easy to lose if you're not careful. Apparently I've always used good clean Coleman fuel because I've never needed it.

Ah, that is because you are in the USA.

Sweden has export controls on the really hot babes!

John

NO MORE AMERICAN BEER FOR SWEDEN UNTIL THEY INCREASE THEIR EXPORT QUOTAS!

Does anyone know where I can get a wrench for a 123? I picked up a 123 for $1.00 at a garage sale. The stove works great, but it doesn't have the wrench tool. This is the model with the horizontal valve, if that makes any difference with respect to the wrench/key.

Picking up a great little stove for a buck!!! I'm jealous to say the least-----------yard sales around here consist of crap that people are too lazy (or cheap, or drunk) to haul to the dump!

Here's a source for parts. I think you'll enjoy the stove. BTW, the horizontal valve makes it a 123R.
SVEA parts

Thanks for the help, 222Rem. I was glad I found it. It would have been all of $3, but when he realized someone had taken the wrench, he gave it to me for a dollar.

Now you're just showin' off.