http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-resources/videos/barrel-basics.aspx

I think the best rifle barrels are cut rifling and remington is full of crap.They make a good barrel but I don't think the best.

Something makes them the most accurate and best selling production rifles in the world.

That something is fantasies of a few and Walmart.

+1 Ricky

In the world......

I don't think Obermeyer, Rock, Krieger, Brux, Bartlein, Broughton, Hart, Lilja, Schneider, Shilen, Pac-Nor, Benchmark, Douglas et al are shivering in fear.

OMFG

........No doubt they are one of the best selling, and they are accurate. But are the Remy tubes the absolute best as far as accuracy is concerned?.......Quite a stretch to imply that Swampy!

Tell ya what. Do you happen to have a (from the factory) Remington rifle in any one of the 375s? Wanna play a little in the accuracy dept vs my (from the factory) "non"-Remy 375?

Your world

At least I got a chuckle out of reading the gems of Lee24....

this guy is just...whatever...why bother.

I'd tell him not to quit his day job as he's pretty [bleep] at trolling.

Yep and they use the same "quality" of work on their safeties, bolt handles and extractors...

www.riflebarrels.com on the home page look at the remington 700 vs Lilja comparison video. For 99% of rational thinking people that should be enough.

The magnitude of dumbphuckitude I see everytime you post is overwhelming.

In the world!

The USMC M40A3 uses a Schneider barrel. Don't know how I could prove it's the "best" in the world, but if I had to bet, I would put my money on the Marine Corps to pick the best possible barrel available for their weapon. I damn sure know for a fact Marine armorers know more about barrels than any internet experts posting here.

IIRC Remington barrels are made on the same hammer forge machinery as used by Ruger and Winchester, New Haven. Whether FN is using the same machinery today I do not know.The machinery is made in Germany.


The claim that Remington makes the most accurate out of the box rifles might have held some validity 25 years ago,but it is no longer true today.

Didn't you have a Remington tube put on your Mashburn.........

Nyquil perhaps. Then again, cocaine?

Seems to me tighter groups are getting shot and less problems are arising with those there Sako's...

Guys, he is just yanking chains and giggling hysterical while thinking he has us.

Cocaine.

Marine Corp armourers choose Remington......

The most accurate production rifle in the world.

Does this sound like another "H&R makes the best single shots in the world"?

FWIW, when I wanted a fine shooting Remington, I had my smith use a Shilen. It worked. The next Remington may get a Pac-Nor. And I'm sure it will shoot much better than the factory barrel it presently has. There's nothing wrong with a Remington barrel for hunting....or a Ruger, or a Winchester, or a Savage, or a Sako, or a Browning, or..................

Yep you can install a Shilen barrel and it will shoot sub-MOA just like the factory barrel did.

Yes, that's right!!!

I think victory can be declared over this dummy.

He has been exposed for the clown he is and has been reduced to feeble attempts at trolling...

He'll never be taken seriously by anyone here again. Pretty sad.

Mission accomplished.

That's correct, the best selling and most accurate production rifle in the world.

yawn

given all its faults Savage is more likely to screw together consistantly the most accurate gun to make it int the average hunters hands......Remington makes a good product have and do own a few of them but to often ive seen an off the shelf Savage kick an off the shelf Remingtons arse accuracy wise......not that it takes much to get a Remmy up to snuff but straight out of the box and to the range my money is on Savage.....

They are boringly accurate.

You might do well to take a cue (and get a clue) from the Core-lokt thread I ran recently in the Alaska forum. Quite "adequate" and "best" have no correlation. Remington is quite adequate in both departments. Best would be a stretch. Besides, best, when applied to hunting, depends on a lot of things. And just as with the Core-lokt thread, selling lots of something doesn't prove it to be the best, only the most popular, which may mean it is adequate.

Swampy,

Do you know the hardest part about being a Remington fanatic?

Telling your dad that your gay.

Hope he took it well.

that was mean

It was mean..

I've had some Remington barrels out shoot my customs..

I had a 25 cal Rem barrel screwed onto a Sportsman 78 30-06 which became pleasingly easy to shoot accurately. 'Course it was half a turn off from original after Homer did a nice touch-up on things.

Pac-Nor fixed a couple broken Remingtons for me.

*snort*

Playin' catch up here after a few days of bird hunting and other nefarious activities, but this is one of the funniest threads I've seen in a long time...

Swampy your level of of ignorance knows no bounds.

No Scott; Krieger,which is cut rifle.

Not saying Rem tubes are not good, which of course they are....but they are made on the same hammer forge machines (produced in Germany by the same company) as Winchester New Haven and Ruger,last I knew.Whether things have changed in the last 4-5 years I don't know.

Of course remingtons shoot very well, at least i have never had a problem with them.Point is,the others have sort of caught up, in general today. I have not seen in awhile more consistently good accuracy from a factory rifle than what I have seen recently from the new SC M70's,which not only have good barrels but are more carefully assembled than the NH rifles....again, in general.Anyone can make a lemon here and there.

Now you're talking about those nasty plastic Tikka's.

Oh swampy, I'm a Marine Corps 2111 (small arms repairman/armorer) and I don't own a single centerfire remington.

I've got plenty of Winchesters, Savages & Rugers but not a single remington centerfire rifle.

While I got no REAL beef with Remington barrels, they COULD twist some of them faster....just sayin...

I bought a Remington rifle once, about four years ago at Sportsman's Warehouse. They have a policy of not accepting returns of firearms, once they leave the store. They accepted my return of this one though.

Damn thing wouldn't feed a cartridge, the manager took it back with apologies.

And this whole "best-selling in the world" crap is ridiculous.

The best-selling automobile for many years running has been the Ford F-series truck.

That hardly makes it the "best."

I read somewhere that Remington does hammer forge most of their barrels, they BUTTON Rifle the 40XB and one 22 model, I wonder why?

Did you ever bed any of those Marine 700s Dave?

Yep, M40A1's

Runny stuff that sniper rifle bedding business. It's a whole different ballgame all together. A whole different world from my little DIY M77 bedding post here.

I think somebodys been drinking remingtons cool aid and listening to their marketing department ads a litle to much!


gene

Well he's not exactly making me want to rush out and buy one! LOL!!

And I've been looking for an excuse to pick one up for quite a while. I's going to have to be something interesting though, something off the used rack....

Actually I guess I could go for a new 17 fireball, damn it.

I was pretty sure when I woke up this morning that I didn't need anymore guns...

I'm always wrong about that.

Sorry Dave but Marines were wrong

Yeah I saw that.

Somebody better call Quantico ASAP!

Raff out roud!!

Probably just shook hands with them at best.........

(Before he caught the gay

ooooh, good slam!

Ouch!

Sometimes you tee it up & just wait, and wait, and wait....

And someone finally takes a swing at it. lol!

Did you use a Ford or Chevy PU to make trips to the Quantico WallyWorld to pick up all of those 700s, after all the Marines just use them out of the box right....................

Yes, it is best to just use a gravel finish, noodle barrel, tupperware stocked wally world M700 right out of the box. All the Marines do to make it better is strap on a Bushnell and an upside down montana and sling they are good to go.

Gotcha

Guilty of the upside down montana, but at least I know better and was doing it on purpose.

They've upgraded? I thought BSA got that contract..

Actually most I saw used a Unertl 10x but I had to have some fun with swampy's love for the Bushnell too.

aaaahhh. Yes it does.

that and the repair bills for my Chevy say it is.

gravel finish...

Amount of sales of a product is usually mostly due to marketing and price point in any given class/category ... doesn't mean it's the best, but then again doesn't mean it isn't ...

Anyway, all that video says is that according to Remington, they make the best factory production barrels for hunting rifles ... in a vague way, they really aren't saying theirs are "better" than what someone else offers - note they never say that specifically ... what I mean is, saying you make the best doesn't mean that someone else doesn't make an equally good product. If Ruger, Winchester and Remington all use the same machines to hammer forge their barrels, and you believe the assertions in the Remington video are valid, then there are quite a few others out there also providing the "best possible factory hunting rifle barrels ...

while you should always be very wary of what is said in an advertisement, you should also always pay very close attention to exactly how it's said ... and even more attention on what's NOT said ...

reading between the lines can sometimes say a hell of a lot more than the lines themselves.

You do mean..."Marine Corp Armorers use Model 700 ACTIONS....and Rock Creek/Krieger barrels, and McMillan Stocks."

That is what you meant right?

There has been alot of talk about the German made hammer forging machines and the fact that many of the manufacturers use the same machines.
The question I have is whether this German manufacturer also makes the all important mandrel around which these barrels are formed?
I would think the quality of this mandrel has much more to do with final accuracy than does the machine which hammers the blank.
Does anyone know whether these mandrels are made in house or made, like the hammer forge itself, by the same manufacturer?

I understand that these mandrels are TiN coated carbide made with a reverse of the desired rifling and, IIRC, the desired chamber as well.

I heard the mandrels were made from shaved down car axles by kids at the local trade school.

Lee24 designed it all for the Germans

I don't think so JM, the steel wouldn't take the abuse.

The chamber can be, but is not necessarily, included in the process.

As well as the mandrel, the hole in the blank is very important. The forging process doesn't remove a bad surface finish, it just irons it into the bore. I believe the spiral marks I see across the lands and grooves of a lot of Remington barrels, particularly the chrome moly ones, can be attributed to poor finish on the inside of the blank.

And don't forget the M70 bottom metal and trigger guards....

You obviously haven't done any research on rifle barrels at all, none whatsoever, have you? Thanks for making me a little dumber, really appreciate it.

coffee out my nose!! It burns!! Ahhhhh!!

LMAO!!

You like that? Sorry about the coffee through the nose, just noticed the wisdom of swampman post, no wonder he's going on about factory rem. barrels, I bet if Model 700s had vaginas he'd have ten kids by now, guess his grandma will have to do 'til then, a man this ignorant has to be inbred.

Thanks for the gandma image...

Eye bleach please.

Swampie designed Lee24.

Sorry about that, but I still believe he has to be inbred, retarded or both.

You are boringly retarded.

My left nut contains more gray matter than what you posess in your whole [bleep]' head Swampman. You are the dumbest, most ignorant, blind, retarded, inbred, white trash, moronic a$$hole I've come across on a website in a long time. Btw, I love M700s and many other rifles, but the way you talk about them makes me want beat you in your misshapen, waterhead skull with one you [bleep] dult.

My beef with Rem barrels has less to do with the barrel per se, and more to do with the chamber.... sloppy, sloppy, sloppy with a throat halfway down the damn barrel. My last M700 shoots fine but the chambering job is a horror.

The mandrels are made by the rifle manufacturer or a tool vendor of their choosing. The amount of times a mandrel is used would determine the quality of the rifling as would whether the "Hole" was properly reamed and honed. I seriously doubt Remington hones those bores prior to hammer forging...Steyr and Sako would be examples of properly hammer forged barrels.

I'm starting to think Swampy is the founder of this new club...

! Good one.

Remington makes a great rifle... and before last year I would have said that they were the best production in the world...

BUT

Last year My middle son went rifle shopping and got a new Win Mod70 feather weight for at least $100 less than the BDL I was pushing him to.

The Win is at least as accurate and nice as any of the BDLs we have� given we only have 2.

Hard to return once you've gone M70

BT/DT. I gave the M70 to my brother.

yawn..

i refuse to go to a model 70 just because.......that said my Kimber has a remarkable resemblance to a mini winchester action.......dammit......

That was mean.

but at least he was truthful ... (grin)

I'd put my factory barrel'd Rem 700 Ti's up against any custom, of like weight.

I've got factory remington 700 "varmint" style bbl'd actions in .243win and .223rem that if they shot any better they would make a good benchrest rifle. Have had others before them that performed equally well.

Come to think of it, I haven't yet had a Remington 700 in any configuration that hasn't shot very well out of the box. Most all customizations I've made have been more about taste or style ... not really about improving the accuracy or function of the rifles.

Not trying to draw any comparisons to other rifles by saying that ... just pointing out what my experiences have been, and I don't have a single complaint with my Remingtons ... in fact, All my bolt action rifles are Remingtons, and I don't plan on changing ...

My NULA .30-'06 shoots very well, and it "only" has a Douglas stainless barrel.

The best barrels are cut rifled and hand lapped. The barrel maker can feel the barrel as the cut progresses, and a good barrel maker can turn out a superior product. Probably not economical for production quantities as the other factory methods are.

jim

In the world....

I've had two that didn't meet my standards. Both eventually got bedded and floated and one was recrowned, still didn't do it.

The new M700 in 30-06 I bought my brother was about a 1.5 MOA rifle, even with handloads. I messed with it for a while before I gave it to him. But it wasn't bedded or anything. I'd call that borderline.

I've got "several" M700's that shoot great out of the box, or with minimal tweaking. That's always nice.

Nice product; I'm a fan, most of my rifles are Rem. But they make some turkeys; I've bought 'em.

In my limited experience, custom barrels are much more likely to be very accurate, have nice tight, clean chambers, are not fussy or picky about loads, and foul very minimally and clean up easy. I'd say those are ALL advantages they have over the typical Rem tube.

My .243 is (unfortunately) just slapped into a PSS take-off stock, no bedding other than the "scope/action stretch eliminating" aluminum bedding block ... was ringing an 8" steel plate at about 800 yards with it easily ... 105g Amax's are what it eats now. However, that's the same rifle I shot my antelope with a couple years ago, shooting the 85g TSX ... shots were 300 yds, 315yds, and 415 yds - all one shot kills.

the other one is a .223rem 12" twist that's in a Manners stock (similar to the A5 w/out a butt hook), and it's only got aluminum pillars and a dab of bedding at the lug. It too is scary accurate with 50g Vmax's ...

I'm sure that ALL rifle makers, as well as custom bbl makers, let a bad one out of the shop from time to time ... nobody is perfect ... but overall, I find no issues with the Remington rifles ... I like the design of them, and they rarely require any real 'fixing' ... maybe a tweak of the magazine box lips to facilitate better feeding ... or replacing a J-Lock assembly with a non-J-Lock assembly ... a little trigger tweak, etc...

but again, I've never had one that just refused to shoot ... and most I've had really shot well, like 1MOA or better by just taking them out of the box and shooting them.

http://spencerriflebarrels.com/ourshop.htm

Huh a thread about how the best barrels are made and not an Anschutz or Feinwerkbau in sight? Something is wrong here.

My Model 7 in 260 will only shoot one load well and that's with a 129gr. Spire Point, but shoot them well it will, everything else it just patterns. Don't know if this constitutes as a good barrel or not. I'm pretty sure not best in the world.

+1 on the Anshutz barrel

I find it amusing when one tends to think the product they purchase is the "best". Actually there so [bleep] cheap to buy the best, in there retarded mind they think they have the best.

There is so much unfiltered BS on this thread, I dunno where to start.......

Key word there is "rational". You, however, are talking about Swampgrass.

Agreed! I love Model 700's as well but every late model Sako I've seen guys shooting, just seem to shoot tighter groups with little to no load developement.

Mind you Sako's and Model 700's aren't quite in the same price range, so that probably has a bit to do with it..

At twice the price the 700 is still more gun than a Sako.

[bleep] off.The Sako's twice the gun as that mass produced pos Remington at any price.

Dayum,

You made Swampman your avatar. LOl

More like 1/2 the gun for twice as much.

Your out to lunch...God help us if anything good ever hits your hand.

In the world.....

Silence Buffoon..

While my 1975 M700 BDL in .308 Win shoots great. The two new M700s I've shot were both disappointing - one I sighted in for a friend and one is mine , a 2005 "Special Purpose Wood" model in .30-06. I tried several different factory loads in both, including Remington, and neither would consistently shoot better than 1-1/4".

Handloads have not helped my Rem M700 .30-06. So far it is the LEAST accurate of my factory bolt guns.

The best barrels are cut rifled.

If there is an accuracy issue with the Remington 700 it isn't the rifle.

Not a huge Remington fan, but I do have a few. The one that really impresses me is a XR100 in 22-250. That devil will shoot anything you put into it into 1/2" or less. That's one I will definitely keep a hold of. Can't argue with the barrel quality on it.

Perhaps what you meant to say, and certainly should have said. I know CH has done quite well accuracy-wise with his Rugers and others. Remington has figured out a pretty solid, certainly not perfect, mass production technique. If there weren't so many places where improvement could be made, perhaps there wouldn't be so many makers of same.

Still not a nice thing to do to family....................

In the world.....

No need to try to convince me. There's not another rifle made with the track record of the 700.

Swampman? Swampman 2 or Swampman Jr?

The Delorian had a track record too as does Bill Clinton....

This is the gospel

Clinton just got caught...

Are we talking a track record of accuracy, or are we talking a track record of trigger law suits. Seems like they're in a heap of trouble still with the never ending trigger issue.

Guys it's easy to see he's just trying to get a rise out of ya.

WGM is doing his best to restrain himself because you guys are bagging on the Big Green he worships. WGM-please, go out and shoot a Browning X-bolt.. Then come back, and tell us how you feel about handling a better rifle than what you are used to. You admitted that you never shoot anything other than Remington.. Give a real rifle a chance and you'll quickly realize that your Ford Taurus of the gun world lacks.... well, everything. Until you've tried something other than Rem-junk, you have no basis on which to compare other rifles.

Be warned though that it will be an ugly event when you realize what you have been missing, and you have to go home to a safe full of Remingtons...

The gospel of retards, inbreds and retarded inbred trolls.

If they need adjustment best to have the factory do this. When done right there're the best..............in the world.

And let's not forget glued on bolts and flimsy, sheet metal extractors, and at the Professional Hunters examinations in Zimbabwe, they came in dead last for reliabilty in dangerous game situations with extractors that are prone to breakage if dirt gets in them, rounds popping out when the bolt was slammed open during quick load attempts,and of course the fact the POS safety, in addition to beig UNSAFE, does not lock the bolt down when engaged. Great track record....

Just because I'm bored ...

1. I haven't shot an X-Bolt, but have owned or shot A-Bolts (I and II), Winchesters, Rugers (tang safety and MKII), Remingtons, Sakos, Savages, CZ, and many more ... so I've got a little real world experience with which to draw on when making my decisions

2. I don't worship at the altar of "Big Green", but admittedly do favor them

3. I don't quite know how to say that ANY rifle is "the best" as a general statement ... Like optics, there are MANY factors that go into the overall design that I take into consideration when choosing a rifle, or an optic (scope or binoculars). With regards to rifle actions specifically, I look at weight, reliability, strength, mag box constraints, aftermarket parts and/or mods for said actions, ease of maintenance and/or field repair should that become an issue, etc... on and on and on. All those things go into my thought process.

4. I'm sure there are many rifles/actions that do one thing or another better than others, so each person should evaluate what it is THEY like and/or require before deciding on a rifle action or production rifle, should that be what they are looking to purchase and use. I like what I like, and never claimed that my choices are better than anyone else, or that anyone else should do what I do.

5. Just in case you decided to single me out because of my earlier post about "best" not meaning "better than anything else", I was merely pointing out that one should read any ad clearly for exactly what is said, how it's said, and what is not said ... usually much more info can be gleaned by reading between the lines, rather than reading the sales pitch being given directly...

I wouldn't own a jap made Browning if it were free. Same goes for jap Howa/Weatherbys.

Me too jorge.....write a letter to Santa.

Aren't those the guys who hunt [bleep] outta the back of a Toyota ? Real compelling.

Read this -
http://firearmsid.com/A_bulletIDrifling.htm

I was at a barrel shop one day and saw a barrel being broached.
The machine that they used to do it was made in the 1920's and still worked as good as the day it was new.

The broached barrel costs 3 times as much to make and takes 20 times as long to make it.

When you work for a company that makes several hundred thousand barrels a year, which process do you think that your company would choose to use? If Remington would have kept the old approach a new Model 700 would cost $1000 to manufacture and sell. Instead you can get one - that I was told are now being made in North Carolina - which is a right to work state for half that amount.

The Unions in this country is what did in the gun industry, not to mention the bureaucrats in Washington - that every time they need a couple more million dollars to spend, put's another excise tax on the fire arms and ammo.

A box of ammo probably costs them $5 to make, but sells for $20 or more. Where is all the money going?

When Dupont owned the company they could afford to make rifles at a loss. The new owners refuses to make less then 20% over cost.

With hammer forging, it takes about a minute to make a standard barrel, it probably takes the machine operator longer to put the blank in the machine then what it does to make the barrel. The lathe that was used to drill the hole in the center does not have to drill the hole on center - because the hammer forging is what determines the final shape of the barrel and the contricity.

A Hydroformed frame for a 1999 Silverado pick up truck could be made in about 5 minutes. How long do you think that it took General Motors to make a steel frame for a 1974 Chevrolet truck.
Probably 20 minutes. This is what we call progress.

If I had my choice, I would choose a 1999 Chevrolet truck over a 1974, but the 1974 was a lot easier to work on and needed a lot less maintenance. 350 SBC - once a year you did a tune up - Points, Plugs and Condenser. About every 5 years you might put on a cap and rotor and change the coolant. About every 7 you would put on fan belts, and spark plug wires.

Today the check engine light comes on and you have to take it to a garage and pay someone $100 just to look at it to tell you what is wrong. Even if you can fix it, you still might have to take it back again to get the check engine light shut off after making the repairs. I guess that is what they call progress.

I suggest you check your facts before you post. Shooting out of the back of a Toyota (or any other vehicle) is illegal and subject to fine and arrest. Still what you said is irrelevant. Even if they did, their testing protocol are renowned in the industry and Remingtons SUCKED. I just posted facts not BS you make up as you go along to buttress and untenable position

Good rifle or not, I imagine Remington's 700 sales have plummeted since Swampy arrived on the scene.

Keep talking Swampy, they'll have to give them away in another week or so.

LOL.

Hey everbody, Swamprot has discovered how to forge quotes now. Now we can add lack of integrity to his many accolades.

Hearing of bolt handles falling off and extractors breaking is irrelevant. What are my options? A 16 thousand dollar Model 70 ?

wow... would you pay that for one? I'll give you 2 for that price!

with or without bedding blocks ?

A Model 70 for the same price. Paid about 650 bucks (1995) for this one and as you can see it does shoot; right out of the box:

They're in hot water again over the trigger,
CNBC'S REMINGTON UNDER FIRE: A CNBC INVESTIGATION Will Premiere On Wednesday, October 20th at 9PM ET

http://www.cnbc.com/id/39383236

Always going to be jealous people taking pot shots at the best...........in the world.....................





















in the world !!!

Well, someone had to eventually unseat JeffObama as the world's biggest internet/outdoors dumbphuck.

It took Swampman a Herculean effort to do it, but damn if he didn't keep trying 'til he suck-seeded...

Surprised these guys thought I was serious.

I'm kind of enjoying watching his almost pathologically illogical, yet seemingly calm, responses to everyone. At least this is entertaining!

Jorge,
I have not been a hunter of dangerous game nor ever will be. In view of this I am in no position to comment on what the African professionals think of the Remingtons. I can only say I have used Remintons for something over 50 years and have NEVER experienced any of the problems you mentioned in your post. Not saying they have never happened but I have never seen it in my guns nor in those used by many friends.

I know you constantly make reference to these "defects", however, as I said before, I have never experienced them.

My safe contains a variety of makers guns and probably the most are Remingtons (I haven't gone down to the safe to count them.)

I believe your point of reference is for the types of use you make of them. I'm sure thousands of users are like me and find your complaints a little hard to swallow.

I don't buy Swampmans opinion but at the same time I don't agree with yours either. After 15 pages I think we all have to agree to disagree.

Jim

If you were serious you would have said "the best in the fuggin world"

Only ADL's are interesting...

In defense of JeffO he sometimes inserts foot in mouth but he can laugh at himself and once in awhile admits he is wrong. Swampman is in a class of dumb [bleep] that has no equal at this time or in all of recorded history.

He is quite simply "The best in the World" in that category

If I'm ever wrong, I'll try to laugh about it.

You just can't beat a Remington.....They are perfection!

I'm thinking of sending my ADL to be auctioned off at the next SCI convention.

How long ago did you have your lobotomy?

Those ADLs rock....you should just auction the rest of those clubs you call rifles.

No problem Jim. At least I can say that in my safe sits one very accurate Remington, a 22-250 stainless Heavy Barreled Varminter that's murder on chucks. But yes, we'll agree to disagree, I won't own another one. jorge

Now you're learnin' jorge

A Browning A-bolt or X-bolt, a real rifle, you got to be kidding. Name me one F-class or highpower shooter that uses an A-bolt or X-bolt action. I'm not saying Remingtons are the end all of rifles, but you can damn sure do worse.

Now there is a glowing recommendation of a Remington .Name a custom gunsmith that bothers using Remington actions only and has not gone over to custom actions because after blueprinting them it is the same price or even higher. Only a Mossberg ATR and Salvage are lower on the totem pole. You know for all the asswipes that come on here berating Abolts and Xbolts I have never ever had a problem with either nor do the 20 or more people I know that have them in fact they have never gone to a gunsmith or back to the factory.

There are a hellva lot more gunsmiths using Remington actions for custom rifles than A-bolts or X-bolts, and any asswipe that would disagree with that doesn't know what the [bleep] he is talking about.

Most aren't saying Remingtons are bad at all, we just don't think they walk on water like Swampman 700 does.

Think about this ... there are literally dozens of "custom actions" being made today that are directly based on the Rem700 action design.

I can't think of a single custom action being made that is based on the X-Bolt or A-Bolt design.

Keep in mind that the Rem700 action is a high-volume production rifle action ... which is why it's not held to the same machining tolerances that the custom actions are - otherwise it would be cost prohibitive. When making a low-volume custom action, you're better served to hold your tolerances tighter - which is exactly how it's done.

In any event, the only work I've ever even requested on my remington actions - which is only during a re-barrel job - is to make sure that the action face is square, lugs are in good contact, receiver threads are not messed up, and that a flat-ground lug or custom lug is used ... and all that costs me maybe an extra $125 ... hardly making the cost of my Remington action the same as an $800-900 custom action.

Jim,

I am sure that you would not forget an important failure with a Remington - or other- rifle when you have one. Certainly it can affect how you think about such a design perhaps, but at least that specific weapon. I have some Remingtons I trust a lot because I have used them a lot under a variety of conditions which include the toughest uses I put my rifles to. While I may bring along a rifle type which has been known to fail (for me) in the past, I only do so when I also bring some type of back up. I certainly would have some reluctance to bring one of my Remingtons on sheep or goat hunt where it would be "it" after climbing and hiking in miles of rugged country.

Yes, I did have a bolt handle snap off when I dropped the bolt with the trigger pulled. Perhaps the spring forced the bolt closed a bit too fast or something, but it can't happen with the bolts used on the Rugers; you gotta go with what gives you confidence.

I agree, they're better than the Mossberg 4x4.

I agree

Is that all you got swampy?

You were doing better so don't screw it up.

Shot some 1/4" 100 yard groups this afternoon with my .30-06. The Remington Core-Lokts are the best.

Post the pics swampman...

Dink

6 shots @ 100 Yards with 150 grain American Eagle Garrand Ammo

One called flyer

He can't because:

We'll be here when you get back.

Swampman if that is .25 inch groups I must have been shooting what .0025 inch groups?

Dink

I can believe that was a Remington, groups like a shotgun.

A Browning shotgun, a Remington wouldn't pattern that tight.

They save that for the rifles..

Sub-1" groups out of a 742. You gotta love that.

Swampman put a tape measure on the x-ring and post a pic..

Dink

6" bull, 4" group, not counting the flyer, if you measure according to 3/4 holes left by a .30 cal bullet.

They look larger than that though. Probably shot at 25 yds to boot. Another tale from Swampy.

Laffin'.

It's very hard to argue with Remington 700 quality.

But since we are discussing FACTORY barrels and not custom actions who cares what you can make a Remington into. I guarantee that the an XBolt or Abolt will absolutely kick a Remington 700's ass in overall accuracy any day of the week and do it with less drama. That from a factory rifle. You can keep the 700's cheap extractor, the crap bolt and marginal trigger system and the robust pot metal floorplate. Yes there are more gunsmiths using Remington actions because they are simple to machine compared to other actions and parts are readily available.In fact an entire cottage industry was spawned just so Remingtons could be made into what should have left the factory in the first place. I mean if you blueprint it, slap on a Sako extractor and redo the bolt handle and rebarrel it what the [bleep] do you own? FOr goodness sakes PT&G make replacement bolts.

You do have a way with words ......but I think you're right regarding the Remingtons....easy to get them to shoot...........plus all those great aftermarket parts!

You look at the spec sheets on here for a Remington build,and the list of replacement parts is as long as the parts list for repair of the Soviet Space Station

My Gawd, this thread is still going? Please stop feeding the trolls...

Anyone with half a functioning brain and a modicum of shooting experience knows that the second your declare any factory rifle to be "the best," you've just stepped squarely into something that will take a while to scrape off your shoes. You've also just surrendered any semblance of credibility, objectivity or intelligence on the subject.

I agree.....A jap Browning of any kind is garbage.

The Remington doesn't need to be made into anything. It is the most accurate production rfile in the world right out of the box.

[sic]*

There, now it's gospel.

*(Is "rfile" an abbreviation for "round file", or what?)

OldElkFart if you are willing to bet any A or X bolt will kick any Remington's ass, you surely must have a lot of money to piss off. If you live anywhere close to Mississippi, I will surely take that bet. You bring 3 A-bolts, I'll bring 3 Remington's. Oh yeah, don't forget your checkbook.

Hey Bob, at least they have a spec sheet for Remington's. They dont even bother with that Jap crap A-bolt.

Junior I don't live anywhere near Mississipi and if I did I would not be worried about losing that bet . Go on I hear your momma calling.

Very Subtle

Ever hear of Toyota ??????? The Best in the World

I think Jstall is a direct relative of the Swampass700

Elkhunter is a nice guy, you shouldn't speak to him that way.

I grew up in Natchez and routinely visit my Dad there. I just happen to have a range as well. I got a few Brownings too.

Next weekend I'm free. 3 shot groups at 300 yds. with 3 different rifles. Winner of each match gets $500.00 for a total of $1500 on the table. Judged with calipers.

You in?

Now we're talking. This could be fun if it involves simply walking into three different stores and buying one each 700 and A-Bolt, new, in-box in each place. How about 243, 308, and 375 respectively to get a broad "look-see". This might even be worth ticket-selling if done right. Could even use Core-lokt/Power/lokt ammo in the 700 and Browning ammo in the Brownings to keep it same/same. Then again, maybe it would be hard to find enough Browning ammo in existence these days. How about Federal straight across?

More light reading about the "best...in the world"

http://www.cnbc.com/id/39383236

http://www.mtpr.net/commentaries/892

Lawsuits, news stories, and accidents have persisted for years.


1971 - "Gus Barber was killed by an accidental discharge of a Remington Model 700 rifle." (CBS)
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories...ews/main301947.shtml
quote:
Very quietly, Remington has settled dozens of lawsuits arising from the Model 700.

Even in its internal memos, which were an exhibit in one lawsuit, Remington acknowledged that some of its early Model 700 rifles could be "tricked" into firing.

And the complaints just keep piling up, says Missouri attorney Rich Miller.

"At last count we had over 1,500 customer complaints of similar malfunctions."


Lawsuits allege rifles had defective triggers resulting in misfires, injuries:
http://www.setexasrecord.com/n...entview.asp?c=221463
quote:
After each firing, during the recoil action, the connector separates from the trigger body and creates a gap between the two parts. During the separation, dirt, debris or manufacturing scrap can become lodged in the space and prevent the connector from returning to its original position.

The lawsuits allege that if the connector is not in the original position, the gun can fire without the trigger being pulled, including when the safety is released, bolt is closed or when the bolt is opened.

According to the allegations, the defendant has known of the defect for 60 years and has more than 4,000 documented complaints of unintended discharge and has paid more than $20 million in settlements to "injured consumers."

The plaintiffs believe that the defendant will not recall the millions of defective rifles because of financial strain and a "profits over safety" mentality.


Monsees, Miller, Mayer, Presley & Amick As personal injury lawyers
quote:
Numerous Deaths and Injuries From Remington Rifles That Fire Without A Trigger Pull: We have handled approximately 50 cases against Remington Arms Company, Inc., now known as Sporting Goods Properties, Inc. and its parent corporation, E.I. DuPont deNemours and Company regarding their defective and dangerous bolt action firearms (Models 700, 600, 660, XP 100, 721, 722 and 40X). These guns can fire upon release of the safety, movement of the bolt, or merely as a result of being jarred due to a design defect in the fire control system, which was known when it was patented in 1950. In addition, until 1982 all of these firearms contained a bolt lock, which required the user to release the safety, thereby arming the gun, before it could be loaded or unloaded. We have collected literally thousands of complaints of these malfunctions and have hundreds of company documents discussing the issue. Remington recalled the Model 600 and 660 carbines in the late 1970s and its new owners recently instituted a program to delete the bolt locks on all other models. Juries in all four trials have awarded significant actual damages and three verdicts for punitive damages, the most recent verdict being in excess of $17,000,000. We sincerely hope that the new company's safety modification program reduces the number of deaths and injuries caused by this dangerous product.





Enjoy...

having represented Remington in the past....I would point out that paying out 20 million dollars in settlements over fifty years on a product with millions sold, and where each claim is necessarily in the millions, is hardly evidence of a defective product.

most of these claims are pretty patent BS, and Remington wins almost all of them. it sure hasn't kept me from buying M700s.

or letting my kids use them. Not agreeing they're the best rifle on the planet, and surely not the best barrel, but the CNBC expose coming out in two weeks is about as objective as the fake "bomb in the pinto" story.

Wow! Scary stuff.

Oldelkhunter if you hear my momma calling you must be close to 80.No,I don't know Swampman, and I,m pretty sure I'm not kin to him. I never, ever said Remington's were "The best in the world", but generally speaking they shoot really well out of the box, or at least the one's I've had experience with have, which is quite a few. I haven't seen that with A-bolts, and I'm not sure, but I don't think Toyota makes Brownings. By the way I have a couple of "good" Brownings, an A-5 Belgium, and a Belgium Hi-Power.
John Moses PM me and we will try and get that done.

Jstall it is all in fun this is just typical gunshop banter where no one agrees on anything..If you have a shootoff with JM post some pics

Yeah Elkhunter your right, it's easy to get a disagreement going on just about any subject from shooting to football. I'm sure you're a good guy, sorry if I offended you. If we do get to shoot it will probably be after hunting season, unless JM will let me hunt with him that weekend.

I just love my Model 700.

We hadn't noticed....

jstall: I have seen quite a few Abolts shoot and they are accurate rifles. I am not an Abolt fan myself but can't deny the damn things do shoot very well....

A lot of the Remington "most accurate right out of the box" stuff is left-over urban myth from a couple/three decades ago.Might have been true then but no longer holds any water.

Many others equal them easily today.

Remingtons shoot even better today than they did years ago. With off brands like Ruger, Savage, Howa/Weatherby, Browning, and Sako it's still a crap shoot.

Blah,Blah,Blah

Blah, Blah, Blah....I'm right and you know it.

[quote=Swampman700]Blah, Blah, Blah


See I was right

I wasn't talking to you.....

At least the pre-64's remain unscathed....

Anybody ever call Remington and ask what their accuracy guarantee is on their rifles? Our resident idiot Swampstink should try it. Sako guarantees 1" and Weatherby's is 1.5". So try it Swampcheese and report back. Somehow I think you'll just make up more of your lies, but do carry on, I do so enjoy embarrasing you...

Bob in all honesty, I haven't played with an A-bolt in 15 years. That particular rifle didn't like much of anything we put through it, I finally found a load that would pretty much shoot a consistant 1 1/4 @ 100 yds. The last out of the box Rem. I shot was 2 years ago. My gunsmith buddy had sold his 7mm Rum 2 weeks before hunting season (a guy just had to have it).He pulled a 270 Rem. off the shelf and gave me a box of Fed Premium 130 BT's, and told me to zero it in. The 1st. 3 shots went into 3/8",and has yet to shoot anything over 3/4". He builds world class rifles, but this one shot so good he decided to keep it. It consistantly will put 140 Accubonds into a 1/2" @100. I realize this doesn't mean all of them will,but that one sure will.

Hell, they don't need any measured accuracy guarantee, they only need the ads proclaiming most accurate out of the box!

Since every Remington 700 will shoot less than 1" right out of the box, why would I call anyone. The word Remington on the barrel is the only gurantee I need to see.

The Remington 700 is the best selling and most accurtae production rifle in the world.

That is simply untrue and demonstrates that you have far less experience with Remington 700's than you profess.....assuming of course that you sincerely believe a third of what you post.....which I seriously doubt,and suspect it's put forth to see how many hackles you can raise.

That said even the most demonstrably silly statements demand repudiation every now and then

Dont get me wrong, I like my remingtons. But if they were "the best in the world" why did i have to send it back to get worked on after on 17 rounds out of a brand new rifle? If they were the best in the world, why did it take 3 months to get it back with a simple fix? If they were the best in the world, why cant i get it to shoot less than 2.5" with any factory 95-100gr ammo including Corelokts?

The problem isn't the rifle.

I did, working with a 7400, and was told that 3" was what they expected out of them. I told them I occasionally got a group that small.

Had a BDL in .308 that was no better than 2".

Before Swampy says it was the shooter, I also had my M70 .300 WinMag with me during one shooting session, and when the Remingtons were doing what they were, The Winchester was shooting .75" groups. Same shooter, same bench setup.

The answer is Remington's guarantee is 4"...Funny how Swampdick fails to respond to the many links and real-world documented experiences of law suits, Professional Hunters and everyday folks like ourselves. Of course I realize he's being a total dick with his responses, then again given his photograph, his story about that "mature" deer and the fact he hasn't got the brains to even to properly affix a sling on a rifle, he's still a dick, a retarded dick...

Just because something is the best selling of its kind doesn't mean dip.

McDonalds has sold more hamburgers than any other burger place in the world, doesn't mean they're the best, or even good.

Swampman,

I am a member of the St.louis Benchrest club. I will meet you there (directions on the website) with five Sako rifles and you bring five remington rifles. The only bet will be we get to post the results here with pics. Are you in?

Dink

TFF!

My last Remington rifle, a M700 Mountain in 7mm-08, is one of the most accurate factory rifles I've had the chance to own. Admittedly, I did spend close to $100 not long after I took it out of the box to have the the bolt handle re-attached.....under "warranty", and it has one of the heaviest and worst triggers I've seen on a factory rifle, and I have to be very careful about resizing the fired cases with either of two brands of reloading dies as the chamber is so close to minimums that even factory ammo tends to hang up just a bit sometimes. But it still functions fine for hunting.

Trust me when I say I understand, "it's not the rifle." (I can compensate for that! )

Now, get your butt off to St. Louis and put up or shut up. We know you're more than just talk.

swamptroll,

Swamptroll,Now you know you don't believe that.Your just saying what ever come to your head.Your are kinda of funny in a sick way.

The problem was the rifle. I pulled the trigger and it didnt go off, but it went off when i lifted the bolt. My finger was no where near the trigger. How is that not the rifle's fault?

Hell lets all go down to LA, isnt that where Swampturkey lives? Swamp where do you shoot, name your range! Let's set a date and all show up! I will bring 3 Kimbers and a Weatherby, who else is in! I can be there any weekend you name! I will take a weekend off from deer hunting. Lets say best groups off the bags wins.

I have a FN PBR XP .308 that I'll put up against his M700s AND it's a CRF!

If the targets are deer asses ya'll will lose.

I think that will definitly be an intresting shoot. I have a feeling that whatever guns everybody brings will probably shoot pretty good. I can't see anybody bringing anything that won't shoot a lick.

In reading thru the posts here, I wanted to mention a couple of points.
Hammer forging barrels; IIRC, CZ hammer forges their barrels, and the accuracy I get with 3 CZ rifles, along with others who posted targets showing their accuracy, is as good as it gets. My criteria is 3 shots in a 1/2" group at 100 yards, and CZ's nail that every outing.
Hart Barrels; I was talking with Karen Hart about a year ago re who they sell barrels to for subsequent rifle builds. One customer was Remington for their Tactical Sniper Rifle builds. Maybe not all of them, but Hart supplies barrels for some builds.
My Remington 722's have barrels that shoot as well, or better, than any current mfgr rifle made today.
I only have one factory Model 700 with a Rem barrel, and that is a 257 Roberts Mountain rifle. It shoots 3 shots into 1/2" groups at 100 with its best load. In addition, the Rem Model 7 in 223 that I have with factory barrel shoots exactly like the 700 MR in 257, 3 shots in a 1/2" group at 100.

A point of perspective: My FN Model 70 in 7-08 and my two Weatherby Vanguards, a 223, and a 25-06, shoot just as accurately as the Rem's.

He's right about them being the most accurate rifles, but it ain't the barrels that cause it.

I think we have to be careful going to swampturkeys range. He either will not show up or his range is going to be shooting 25 yards off the hood of the truck. I say we can go to any range a campfire member has a picture of or any range that has a updated website.

Dink

Thanks!

The original post.

Thanks!

Swampturkey

-another name for a hoodrat or dungeon monkey.......or a women that lays around the neighborhood waiting for sex and is usually on crack.....

yo mama is a swamp turkey.....even I hit it

Who are you kiddin' you've never been with anyone you weren't related to.

Seen your bucks older brother today....

Ok, guys enough we need to get this thread back on topic!

Can you give me a 'package' price on that ammo?

I just want the carrier.

Shank you veddy much...

"Best" is very subjective so your statement is nonsense. Personally, while I like my Remingtons, I prefer my Rugers.

Your claim that "every Remington 700 will shoot less than 1" right out of the box" is pure horse manure. My Rem 700, manufactured in 2005 and purchased new by me a couple years later is a 1-1/2" shooter and the new M700 I zeroed for a friend wouldn't do any better - various types of factory ammo (including Remington) for both and handloads for mine, no change. I'd be very happy if my new M700 shot as well as my Rugers, the various Savage rifles I've shot or even my Remington M700 BDL manufactured in 1975. At this point, though, I've come to terms with it and realize that, at a minimum, some bedding work is going to be required to make that M700 shoot well.