Okay, the "Improved Cartridges" thread was enlightening. What are the disadvantages of X-bullets?

They over-penetrate.

They make a 150gr .308-cal bullet penetrate like everyone else's 180gr or even 200gr .308-cal bullet. Of course, this "disadvantage" can be applied to all Barnes bullets from .22-cal to .458 and beyond, if they make 'em that big.

TTSX/TSX. The disadvantage of complete penetration. Grin

They kill stuff DRT and end your season.

Price.

But they are well worth it.

Been using them almost exclusively for 24 years now, have not found problems or negatives now that they do not foul up barrels anymore and are accurate in about any rifle these days. Not so much on either point with the originals, but the TTSX's? Cannot think of a negative.

Right now it is that they advertise a new Tipped TSX in .224 but havent put them out yet...


Otherwise...they overpenetrate and its hard to get a mushroom for those neat pics to post...

It's always good to have a second tag just in case the one standing behind your primary goes down...damn them over penetrators anyway,wish they didn't work sooo well!!

Dats no schitt Woody...Im only using centerfire .22s these days and you still have to be careful that no one is standing behind your target...ask ltpowell...


Course, he lines up feral pigs intentionally...

For me, finding the seating depth to give me accuracy that the bullets and my gun are capable of is harder than working up the load sometimes.

I have had four rifles give me fits over seating depth and one over copper fouling.

My 25-06 (700 Sendero) has almost 200 Barnes down the tube and I cannot bring it below an inch and a half. The gun shoots bug holes with about any load using VMax 75s.

The fouler was a Parker-Hale 30-06. Shot 150 grain Speer FBs into 3/4 inch. Three shots with a TTSX, four at the most and the guns as copper fouling so bad accuracy opened to 3-4 inches. The barrel looked clean so I UBCed it and the problem went away. The gun did not foul badly with guilding metal jackets and the bore looked fine, but I never put a bore scope in it. Of the ones picky about seating, two were capable of eight inch groups if the seating depth was .010 too much or too little (one .223, one .243) The others just took a lot of backing up and trying again.

If they were really cheap bullets, and easy to get plenty of them, those problems would not be so bothersome. But... When they run 60-80 cents each, and you might get lucky and find fifty of the ones you want on the shelf, it's a problem that needs to be addressed. When there are changes (small or not) in the bullets between lots, that problem is magnified in it's piss me off factor.

Otherwise, the only downside is the small light ones don't have very good BCs, but that's the nature of small light bullets. The copper just makes that a little more obvious.

These are the best bullets I have had to load with in more than 55 years. We are living the good old days of reloading right now!

I aint ltpoweel but know what you mean too, the pig standing behind the first one did not even slow the bullet down. Too bad I couldn't get another pig to cooperate and stand behind them!

For me the downside is accuracy. A couple of rifles now I couldn't get the TSX to shoot no matter what. The rifles were accurate with other bullets so it's not the gun.

From what I've seen guns either love em or hate em.

I've generally had excellent accuracy results with TSX bullets, in several different calibers.

In theory, it should be possible to make a monometallic bullet even more uniform than a cup and core or bonded bullet- less chance of variation in jacket thickness, etc.

Way.

Same here,I shoot 130gr TSX in my 264..140gr TTSX in my 280..85gr TSX in my 6mm and 243.. 55gr TTSX in the 220 Swift.All these guns are in the 20-25 yr old range and shoot very well with the Barnes label.Have turned on several friends to them and no problems either.Partitions and Speer have always been my favorites over the years and I still shoot them often but the X bullets have made a believer outta me several times in the last few hunting trips.Not going to criticize the cup and core following as I have been one for many moons but all I gotta say is,"Don't knock em if you haven't tried em"...and that means you Swampy !!!

If any of ya'll got any 160 XLC's in .284 or 180 in .308 for sale let me know.. I'm coming to the end of these and will be forced to start using the Next Generation..
I'm sure when that day comes I'll be able to make a Painless Transition..

Core-less are, "the best in the world". Barnes bullets are a novelty. Ford Fiesta rules.

There ya have it folks, quote from the resident nutt shell!!!

Only one I see

Certain versions had/have questionable expansion capabilities.

I would use them if they had a longer window of operation. Cup and cores will still open going 400fps slower.

2200fps minimum speed for the TSX/TTSX to open reliably.
1800fps or less for cup and cores to open reliably.

I don't want to have a longer than average shot end up with no expansion.

They are a good shooting bullet though.

I agree. That is why I use BT's and AB's for "most" of my hunting. I do shoot TTSX's though but at screaming velocities.

Okay, next question.

For those of you that think negatively of them...

What are your personal experiences to reach that conclusion?

I haven't had the chance to shoot anything with them, but my guns seem to group them pretty well.

Hmmm, curious where you're getting that figure?

My bet is that you've never seen anything like it when you do.

I have shot everything from 6.5 to .375 and am very pleased with the accuracy. I have not used the .375 on game but all my other rifles have been very efficient killers wth the original X, the TSX and indeed the old original Barnes cup and core. I have never had a copper fouling problem, but cleaned frequently in the old days.

I reload for friends and I am kind of like a crack dealer. I give them a box to try and they all demand them after that. A box of TSX custom loas for their rifle is still cheaper for components that factory cup and core. I am not much of a business man, but a pretty good friend.

My one buddy has a Winchester model 70 Ranger that shoots 130 TSX at 3100 ft/sec into 3/8" all day long. He shoots three deer every year for his Dad and uncles near Peterborough. They all love his "magic" bullets.

Randy

The official Barnes Line is that they will open from 1700-1900 FPS....

Frankly I don't know, mine have never gotten a chance to slow down that much before they landed on something...

I have witnessed/experienced 3 instances.

2 with the 140 gr TSX launched at 3350 fps from a 7mm rum, Antelope bucks at less than 300 yards (both times). Both double lunged and they ran "forever".

Same deal with an 85 gr TSX at 3500 fps from a 240 Bee. Double lung at 60 yards on mule deer doe.
Lungs on all 3 animals did not look like jelly, they looked like they were stuck with a small diameter sword.
Now all were harvested but we did track a while.

Now to be fair since we switched to the TTSX we never had an issue!

I did find this though

Very interesting picture. Simulated hit at 1K yards (1800 fps)

And your source would be...? When I asked Barnes (the very same who designed and manufacturer said bullet), they said 1800 is published, but they opened quite a bit slower in testing for the specific TTSX I asked about. They shoot real well too.

From last Tuesday, .30/ 150G's of TTSX Luv.

One could comment that they WAY, way OverPenetrated...

I'm telling you, I can't wait! Only 6 more months........

If you're worried about expansion at lower velocity with a Barnes bullet, drop down one weight and load em up. They will penetrate and expand, AND shoot flatter at range. My wife killed a nice bull moose a couple years ago with a 150 gr TSX out of her 30-06. Guessing the impact velocity was @ 2500-2600. Complete penetration, and the moose dropped at the shot and stayed right there.

Barnes TSX is "da bomb!"

Turkeys with a rifle....its a sin!

Forgive me father, for I have sinned.......

Off the top of my head, I think I have about ten X bullets collected over the past couple of decades. Assuming we go with the "they way overpenetrate" theme, that means a pretty small number compared to the game shot with them - and it is. Unless you are willing to be pretty loose with the definition of the term "reliable", I wouldn't call them that when they slow down considerably.

And I wouldn't say "negatively" describes my thinking about them. When they work like they're supposed to, you wonder why you'd want to use anything else. Unfortunately, when they work well happens to be in a window that still qualifies as something of a niche. On the plus side, that niche - distances and speeds where they do work reliably- also happens to be where the majority of users make the vast majority of use of them, so you'll hear few complaints. But most people who get over their infatuation with anything when they get burned a few times. They are great bullets for most conditions, but there are still bullets which probably could be considered very good bullets over a broader range of use.

Klik,

Are you speaking mainly about X and XLC bullets, or are you speaking about your experience with TSX and TTSX bullets, too?

I'm not even sure a guy can even find X Bullets anymore.

People have to be crazy to waste $1.00 for a bullet to shoot a big game animal!

Sweet! I don't get to the fire much anymore and first I had heard. Has barnes given a release date?

Barnes monolithic hollow points have always been called "X" bullets. ......XFB, XBT, XLC, TSX, TTSX......they are all X bullets. I have more of the earlier versions which I have recovered from game animals, but that is only because I have killed more with them. Percentage-wise, I have more of the recent (TSX) types though they number only two or three. It appears to me that the newer bullets do not open as widely as older X types did. Perhaps that solves the petal loss "problem". Perhaps the newer designs also help improve the reliability of the bullet to open, even if to a lesser degree. I don't know. I am still not convinced that monolithics have been developed to the point that they open as well and consistently at lower speeds as bullets constructed from softer, malleable metals such as lead. I do think the extra T is an effort by Barnes, and the singular efforts of Hornady and Nosler, to solve lower speed impact upset issues. They are great bullets within their speed window of effectiveness.

release date for TTSXs in .22...undetermined...

Hardly, ...as I Blessed these Gifts, which they were about to receive...
(Ordained OnLine )

OK....Dat's a "click and save"....

definitely a wicked cool picture! i stole it too!

Nice pic!! 338-06?

prm,

my 338 Fed's are looking like that with 160 TTSX's. Gonna give them a test next week. Have you tried them in your 338 Fed yet?

Zealots!

Official word from Barnes:

Heres what Josh gave me on the 358 200 TTSX...



im figurin 1700 or so on this one.

Hey Pat, I stopped a 62 grain TSX last night...the first one I ever fired at a critter.

Ham to head, lost a petal. Can't load pics in the sticks, but I've got some autopsy photos I'll hang later.

Congratulations! They are hard to catch. Thus far, I've recovered two 53's and one .308 120grn. I can hardly imagine what it would take to stop a 100grn .257. Anybody here every recovered one from an animal?

Going to try the 185s on a hog this weekend.

Ha, just messin' around. Turkey's here are a shotgun game. I'll never forget the first time I had one spitting and drumming right in my lap. We can't use rifles here, though there have been some times when I wished we could.

We can use them here in the fall season. For reasons unknown, we cannot use them in the spring season...hence I have never shot a turkey with a shotgun.

I'm thinkin' its for all the Bubba Wannabes that want to ground sluice a bird during mating season, like they see so often on Bubbavision...

I have a few boxes of .284 120grn I am looking forward to punching leather with.

I still have a stash of the old 7mm 120gr "X" bullet. I only shoot them in one rilfe. My old rem mtn rifle in 280 loves those bullets moly'd and shoots them very very well. I have enough for a few more years but after that I'll just have to switch to the TTSX.

Lots of interesting comments. So far I've only loaded up my .257 Robt. and .35 Whelen with the TSX bullets. Accuracy from the .257 runs right at 1.25" which is about all I gotten regarding accuracy from that rifle. It's just adequate although I'm thinking playing with the seating depth might help improve accuracy. Bullet is the 100 gr. TSX over a fairly stiff load of IMR4350.
On the .35 Whelen, I use the 225 gr. TSX over a stiff oad of RL15 and the rifles shoots .50 to .75". I shot a cow elk with that load last december and the bullet hit just behind the short ribs on the left side and exited between the neck and right shoulder. I've never seen an animal go down as fast as that elk did.
I recently picked up some 20 gr. and 140 gr. TSX bullets to rey in my 7x57 and .280 Rem. I haven't gotten aroud to loading any of those yet. Should be interesting.
On the .257, my ex-son in law has a Winchester M70 Feather weight that is the exact twin of mine. After missing a deer we shot at a beer cah stuck in the crotch of a tree. The bullets were dead on and every one punched clean through a 13" pine. The TSX cost me a very nice Mule Deer on that hunt. He was standing with a bunch of does and I knew damn well if I shot him I'd probably take a couple of does as well. I guess I shouldn't blame the bullet as I was using the Whelen and regardless of what bullet I used I'd have taken a couple of does. Just bad luck, that's as as that was the only decent buck I saw on the whole trip.
Paul B.

That Shooting through and "overpenetration" actually IS a concern with Barnes, even the little ones I use...got to "be sure of your target and beyond.."

Extra tags should come with all Barnes products!!

I'm almost inclined to think that the small

That's why I always yell "FORE!" before I shoot at games with a Barnes.

Well, I stopped another TSX last night. Still in the sticks and still can't download pics, but the test medium is pretty rough.

X-bullets or TSX's?

X-bullets threw major fliers for me. MAJOR.

TSX's I've used have been very accurate bullets.

Disadvantages: a generally poor BC which, combined with the fact that they can have expansion issues at lower speeds especially (from the fans: "drive 'em fast!" "they work best when bone is involved!") means they are a poor longer-range bullet. There have been way too many photo-documented examples of poor expansion- even at high impact speeds- to ignore this reality.

The poor BC means they lose speed fast and get moved around by the wind a bunch out at longer ranges. BTDT myself.

They are reputed to overpenetrate to what I'd call a ridiculous degree on thin-skinned game. This wouldn't matter except that it is also reputed to come at the cost of some quick-kill ability, on average, compared to a bullet that fragments some.

They are expensive. Considering how very easy it is to shoot through deer with about any ol' bullet that seems silly to me- to overpay to overpenetrate.

I'm of the belief that there's some real positives to the design, and will be loading them again this year for at least one rifle... but you asked for the negatives, so there's my take on that.

Walkin the tight rope or a tiptoe throw the tulips a bit ain't ya!!

No, they are reputed to penetrate. OVER penetration is a conclusion you've drawn based on that reputation.

Ok, fair enough.

From the virtually unanimous reports on how they work, I conclude that by my definition they WAY overpenetrate on thin-skinned game.

When there's a problem that that kind of penetration solves, then there's our huckleberry. Like for my lever-action timber elk rifle in .325... what better than a TSX?

Generally speaking I'm not seeing the problem that requires such a solution, though, but that's just how I see it and you are free to disagree <g>.

Plus they come in a DAMN fine box!

Dude, ...u've never gunned 'em. We all know ur kill numbers. How can U possibly expect anyone to take ur opinion seriously?

No, not in every case.

R u txting? Lol.

I've "gunned" them enough to know the bad BC is real. I've "gunned" enough other bullets to know I don't see a penetration issue with normal bullets- at least not how I "gun" them.

It's a thread about their downsides. Bad BC, pointless overpenetration, and high cost are a few.

The phookin' things certainly have a big upside. Different thread though.

R U paying attention? Lol...

They have seemed to kill more slowly for me on lung shots than other bullets.

Yeah, ...been paying attention (as have most) to ur nonsense (note box issues Thread, for one of the many pathetic examples) for more than a while.

PLEASE enlighten/ hang pics on first hand WAY, way OverPenetration experiences (hoping this is gonna be WAY, way better than ur scope mounting pics)...

Speed them up if possible......in my rifles on deer for instance a .22-250 seems to put them down quicker with lung shots than an .06....they both work of course, but speed kills...

Ingwe,

That's because they can't hear it coming... grin

I'm slinging them out at 3200 or better--when put through the lungs they seem to not kill as quickly as a softpoint for me--sample size of 8 or 10 now.

That said, there are certain things Barnes can do that others can't, which is why I keep dabbling with them.