What would he buy? Caliber? optics?

Im going to say A Kimber 84 select. 338Federal. 2.5-8x36 VX3 in talleys. Turner sadlle sling and 210's zero'd for 150.

I think he might be sick to his stomach with all the plastic...

He'd shop around for a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in .270 WIN.....

I think he'd like the new Winchester Model 70 Classic Sporter & the sporter laminates. I think Jack would also like the Ruger Hawkeye as they are built like a rifle should be. I suspect he would probably go with the 270, 30-06, and 280 Remington. These are classics that haven't really been improved upon!! I think he might seriously consider the new 270 WSM or 300 WSM in addition to that though. For scopes it would be a 4x or 6x Leupold or possibly a 2.5-8x36 Leupold.

Now for bullets old Jack would shoot the beloved Partition which is still the standard, and the new Nosler Accubond or E-tip.

David

Kimber Classic Select 84 L in 270 win, 130 gr partitions and Leupy 6x. I would also suspect he might try one in 30-06 or 280 AI.I think he would also have one in the 84m Classic Select in 257 Roberts. By what I read of his writing, he liked light rifles and see him toting fine wood and blued

Don't know if that would be JOC's choice, but I like it. Nice wood, handy rifle, Partitions, plenty of umph, works for me.

He might try all kinds of things,but this is what he would hunt with.....and since they are still around,he'd have Al and Roger Biesen remodel the FW to his specs.

He would do this because he used such rifles and the 270 Winchester successfully on several continents; on African plains game,moose,elk, grizzly,sheep (how many Grand Slams?)

He'd write about all the new cartridges (just the same way he wrote up the 7mm Rem Mag,300Win Mag,300 Weatherby, 338, etc),and might hunt with some of them.But I think he'd stay pretty close to time proven classics like the 270, 280,7x57,and 30/06.

+1 Bob

I'm not so sure. He wrote about the M70 because it was a standout at the time. There are many other options today and I don't think the M70 is the standout now that it was then. Still excellent no doubt, but not the across the board consensus of being the top dog. Sakos & Kimbers, to name two, might appeal to him a pure hunting rifles. But, since .270 appealed to him then, I see no reason it wouldn't appeal to him today. All speculation of course.

I'm afraid if he lived today he just might shoot a T/C Encore on a hunting show on TV.

Bingo!

Does anyone really think gunmakers have eclipsed his absolute favorite? Some of them are now having trouble just building rifles that customers won't want to return! Or pass along to some schmuck.

+1 stray ground lol

if he shot a kimber , he would look at the palm sized shot group, sell it and search for a pre-64 model 70 .270 and keep on killin' them.

I think he'd buy what he could afford and go hunting.

I talked to him last night via a ouija board and he said a new model 70 fwt in 270 WSM.

New FN Model 70 in .270 Winchester. Why would he change?

Yeah, and Winchester had a pretty busy service dept before 1964 (for good reason).

Also, if factory pre 64 M 70s were so great, why did guys like O'Connor feel the need to spend twice the cot of the rifle customizing them? A hint would be the stocks shaped like plain Canoe paddles.

KoolAid drinkers are funny.

Bingo..

Whew Jimbo62, why so bitter?

Hi there, Swampy.

You speaking for JOC, or are you feeling a new urge to drop Ruger for FN/Win?

I think you and I can agree that JOC would NOT buy a new Rem 700 in any caliber.

New Hawkeye, maybe?

He may go with a Dakota 76 with a nice piece of wood.

DF

Oh I think he would be shooting a NULA Model 24 in 270 with maybe a 6 x 42 mm Leupold on it.

The question was what would JOC choose? I believe that would be a new FN Model 70 in .270 Winchester which is a much better rifle than anything Winchester ever produced in the past. The new Remington 700s are still the most accurate production rifles in the world. That is unlikely to change.

+1

but in 338WM

I think I couldn't give a [bleep] less what Jack O would use. Didn't care then either.

Probably the latest wiz bang magnum wrapped in some sort if god-awful plastic.

Seems that's what it takes anymore to kill deer, elk, and the like.

Long gone are the days of animals without Kevlar

But back to the original posters question, I think Jack would be mighty pleased with a m700 cdl.

I saw a non kevlar whitetail dropped last week to a single round from a 30-06. Really! No kidding! Well I didn't actually see the shot, but there was only one shot heard and he only had one rifle so I am really pretty positive. I know it is hard to believe but it still happens from time to time.

I was thinking the same thing.

Ya, and it was a g..a..s..p! Tikka M65, and it wasn't wearing a Leupold scope, either. Musta just got lucky, I guess, except for the Barnes TSX part.

No kidding? Wow

Exactly!!!! He for sure wouldn't even think of a POS (Kimber to you guys in Rio Lobo, or whereever).
Bear in Fairbanks

You mean, busier than all the others back then? Doubtful... Show me any rifle manufacturer without a service dept...

Maybe because he wanted a custom - like many other rifle owners of today? The rifle was built to HUNT with, used as tool to obtain game, and they did so with aplomb.. Not meant (excluding custom shop stuff) to be all show and no go like some others..

I'm thinkin' you would know - first hand.. Personally, I hate the stuff..

Don't know, don't care. Whatever, it wouldn't affect my buying decisions one whit.

Sad, but more than likely true.

Indeed they are!

It's always fun to second guess this stuff with the hindsight of 50 years post fact,and the advancements in technology....I don't recall anyone saying the stocks were works of art, but they were functional and durable for the time,even if not ideal for scopes....but it helps to know how we got where we are from where we were.

(BTW some of the Kool Aid drinkers included guys like Ralph Young, Wally Johnson,Pinnell and Talifson,Finn Aaggard,and others who depended on factory issue 375H&H M70's to keep brown bear,lions,and Cape Buffalo out of clients laps.They musta worked pretty good.All those guys died natural deaths.... )

But when the rifle was introduced,most people shot iron sights,good scopes not being exactly abundant....the stock,while not ideal,served the purpose pretty well.

But guys like O'Connor and others modified the rifles to make them lighter and more suitable for scope mounting.Guys like Bob Owens,Hoffman,Pachmyar,Shelhammer,Biesen,and a host of others catered to astute rifleman of the day who(like today)wanted a better stock of lighter weight,and better design,more suitable for scope mounting....much the same way guys today will take a Rem 700,Ruger,or present M70, and replace the stock for something "better". Mausers and Springfields and Remingtons got equal treatment....the M70 was not alone.

This all evolved into the introduction of the M70 FW in the early 50's,likely the first real mountain rifle from a factory;the precursor in design to much of what we have today,and a take-off on what JOC and others like him insisted upon.Things like the Ruger, Rem Mountain Rifle,Kimber 84L, etc., did not just "happen".....they are the evolutionary by product of the work of a lot of highly skilled stock and rifle makers who influenced factory design years ago;and the notions of guys like JOC who wanted something "better"than the factories produced.This goes on today....

Today,computer aided technicians press buttons from remote locations to get the metal and wood chips flying and make the rifles faster and more efficiently,and with tighter tolerances to boot (even though we know no one actually shot the damn thing,other than proof load,and tested function.......in contrast to the guys with dirty hands, greasy aprons, and files who actually assembled and shot the rifles before they left the factories.....for similar treatment today from the likes of Dakota, Darcy Echols,Gene Simillion, Jim Anderson,Chick Worthing,Jerry Fisher, and other talented makers,a guy will spend thousands....no doubt their work is a LOT better,but they are more expensive as well..

I hardly consider any of this as an indictment of the old rifles.

That even today,the old rifles will equal and sometimes outperform the newer stuff (to the consternation of many) in the field,is curious,and sometimes funny......

I don't see many threads on here entitled..."Problems With My Pre 64 M70".

M98, VX3 2.5-8x36 & Talley QD steel mounts.

In 30-06

Touche Mr.BobinNH Touche!

BobinNH--Good post!

Of all the hunting camps you've been in, Bob, how many guys still hunt with those things. Honestly, I've never seen one in Canada, or Maine and Ive been in a ton of them

All of the purely NOSTALGIC pre 64 drivel is pretty funny considering the LAST custom rifle O'Connor commissioned before his death was a .280 RUGER m77.

So much for the superiority of the pre-64 Winchester- even in Mr O'Connor's eyes..

RD: Well, there's at least one in every camp I hunt in...

Seriously you raise a good point; times change of course and a lot of the users age, stop hunting,etc...plus many have fallen into the hands of collectors who treat them like a Ming vase..

I mean, they only made 500,000 of them.....not enough to go around.

In Wyoming last year,there were 2 that I recall,in addition to mine.I see them more out west than I do in the east, and Canada.I used to see a fair number of them up in Aroostook County, Maine, which surprised me.

But I do not see them as much as I used to.....the younger guys have moved onto other rifles, which is fine. Every generation should have their own rifles.....my son wants mine....I told him yeah, when I'm dead

Till then he gets to slum a Classic.

Jim, the 280 Ruger was a gift from Bill Ruger.....as you know, he and JOC were fast old friends. I doubt JOC was gonna turn it down. He sent it to Biesen to be remodeled and stocked....he died before it was finished.

My humble apologies for the drivel and the nostalgia.....

Ringworm: I am pretty sure he would look into the Dakota Model 76 Alpine Deluxe in caliber 270 Winchester.
This pre-64 Model 70 clone is available with case hardening and a host of custom deluxe features as options - the wood stock is beautiful and familiar.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I think Jack would have loved this one:

http://www.sako.fi/sako85models.php?classic_deluxe

Or this one: http://www.sako.fi/sako85models.php?classic

jim62.

What you say is true. However, you must remember that at the time he commissioned the custom Ruger, the Winchester Model 70 was a push-feed rifle with little to commend it. I suspect that Jack would develop a fondness for the currently made Classic Model 70.

TT

He HAD to accept it because it was a gift. And he wouldn't have done it except for being old, senile and near death, anyway.

Touch�.....

M70 super grade in .270 Winchester of course.

+1 on Steelhead's post

Coudlnt give a toss to what JOC used then or now.....

I would like to think how many head of game the old military surplus rifles have shot over the years...................just goes to prove you dont need some fancy rifle or some gun writer flying the flag of some rifle manufacturer to shoot game!!!

Gus

I hope not, they've had almost 50 years to get them fixed!

LMAO.....good one !

And how many Winchester m70s did Winchester GIVE O'Connor in the 1950s free of charge?

I bet EVERY one of them.

Tom.

Please do not mistake my posts here.

The "Koolaid" drinkers I refer to are the "pre 64 m70s "or bust crowd".

I have no issues with any of the Current M70s.

If Jack O'Connor was rifle shopping today he'd be not quite 110 years old, and would probably want something a little lighter than an 8-pound .270.

Truthfully, to Bob and everyone else here..

I believe if O'Connor was alive right now, he would -

1) be astounded by all the high quality, lightweight and accurate bolt guns available today.

2) Probably choose a French Walnut stocked Select grade Kimber m84L with French walnut in..

.270 Winchester because with today's bullets its even better than it was in his hey day.

Besides, I think he would continue to shoot the .270 just to annoy the 7mm sluts..

Goof-ball...

You lose again.....I have no idea how many Winchester gave him.Call Winchester and find out....but his second favorite 270 #2 was purchased new from Erb Hardware in Lewiston, Idaho in 1959;sent to Al Biesen to be reworked and restocked.Feel free to look it up.He wrote of this more than once.

This thread was not about how you feel about Pre 64 M70 fans (Pre 64 or Bust)You can start your own thread on that subject if you care to.......it was about every one's guess as to what he would choose today.Your guess is as good as mine.

Tikka T3

[quote=BobinNH]

This thread was not about how you feel about Pre 64 M70 fans (Pre 64 or Bust)You can start your own thread on that subject if you care to.......it was about every one's guess as to what he would choose today.Your guess is as good as mine.

/quote]

OK, Mr self anointed Thread Moderator...

Please see my previous post above.

And you are right about one thing, my guess IS every bit as good as yours.

One thing for certain, his writings are responsible for the survival of the .270 Winchester. The Mod 70 may, or may not, have made it without him.

Here's a typical Jack O'Connor passage, probably the one he is most famous for...



"When the rifle cracked, the buck turned over clear over in the air, and hit like a bag of potatoes.

"Whoopee!" said Zefarino. "That's the kind of rifle I like, one that has power. One shot and the buck doesn't move. How do you call it?"

"The .270," I said.

"The same one you shoot the ram with, no?"

"The same."

"With the .30 you shot a buck and it ran. Then the smaller boy shoots a buck with the .25 and it ran. Now the large boy shoots a buck with this rifle and it is dead in its tracks. How good a rifle, this .270!"

"It shoots a good ball," I said, "--a very fast ball."

"Like the lightning!" said Zefarino."

Compelling ain't it...

OK Jim...you are of course RIGHT!

Muffin, what can I do to make you feel better???

What an old woman.....Geezzus.....

No, but published in what was virtually the only outdoor publication of the era, it sold lots of rifles and influenced lots of wanna be hunters.

My guess would be JOC would be looking to purchase the closest to what resembles a pre '64 Fwt.. That would be a CRF SC Fwt. or a Kimber. He gave Winchester a pretty good tongue lashing when he wrote about the post '64 offering.

I can attest to that. I have 10 years of Outdoor Life neatly stacked. Not only do I have his monthly columns but all his feature stories. The old ads from the 60's are really great!

Remember them well. I learned to read on Outdoor Life. Of course,back then, the magazine wasn't about catch-and-release parrot fish on flies and hunting yaks with tofu guns.

I can't see JOC with a Kimber. He liked accurate rifles.

That's what gave me the fever, growing up: Outdoor Life, Field & Stream & Sports Afield (& later reignited by Gray's Sporting Journal) that would be passed on to me from my dad and uncles. Not so much for the ads, but for the wonderful stories and adventures. Seems a shame that kids today rarely connect w/ stuff like this.

Most anything will trump a Pre-64 in accuracy. We are living in the good old days.

If Jack O'Connor was rifle shopping today...

He'd get whatever would piss off Elmer Keith.

TFF

Right, and Mr.O'Connor, like any experienced rifleman today would buy used stuff and have them built to taste.

He would have these and wouldn't look at plastic/stainless junk, for all the right reasons. In order:

30-06
.270
257 Roberts
22 Hornet

Which one of those went goat hunting with you?

Yes we are in the "new" good old days. But what we are talking about are some of our earlier exposures to our future loony roots.
I remember my first hunt with my 4 cousins - 1968. The 80 year old farmhouse had a stone basement with real sawmill cut 2x4's. The wooden floor creaked and we set out our mouse trapline on opening weekend. Within ten minutes of the last cribbage game, the traps would start to go off. Once in awhile the red squirrels would get inside and make a big mess. It was a .22 short shooting gallery before we could come in and straighten up. One year someone shot a skunk under the porch. Everything reeked for the entire weekend and longer.

Anyway, the brothers all shot 30-06's - it was the only caliber that mattered. All with hand loaded 180gr. Hornady round noses. Two scoped Browning GR II Belgiums, one pre '64 aluminum butt '06 with irons only and a Remington bolt, I suppose a 700? Red wools with bunny boots. Yup, JOC would have fit in just fine.

In 1980 an arsonist in the east central part of MN. torched a bunch of seasonal buildings and the old farmhouse didn't survive.

So Elmer is resurrected for this thread now? He might have a harder time "shopping".

Wonder if he would look twice at WSM's and WSSM's?

You might try carrying the rifle with a sling, they don't get as beat up as when you drag it around by the barrel.

I have been goat hunting with a Browning 78 in 25-06. Didn't have the Model 70's then. The Browning is still in great shape many animals and hunts later...





This Sako has been to Alaska and carried all over the tundra and it still looks good...



This Model 70 made it to Alaska and back on another trip...

Just asking which one went up the last goat mountain with you. If you feel like please post up BAR/bunny pics also.

Beating $20 you didn't wear jeans up an Alaskan goat mountain, but then why would folks use second tier [bleep].

Of course it's funny when I tourist proclaims that something worked great for a week in the tundra.

I seem to recall someone getting stupid wet in another tourist visit. Try living in that [bleep] day in and day out, carrying a rifle day in and day out. Taking a rifle in and out of skiffs, rivers, canoes, ATV's.

Most things can work for a short while, most but not all.

The best thing about you is that you are not the least bit opinionated...

Don't forget, he's rich.

Shrapnel--Nice rack!

And some people get by driving little girly man foreign outfits!



I would imagine using whatever works for you might be the way to go!



Don't you have a baby shower or something to attend....grin

But you are right, jeans on a mountain side probably would be a poor idea.

You know it....

Thinking he would not be tied into one rifle as much as he was in the past. Times, advertising pressures and the audience has changed considerably since his day.

If he wanted to make a go of it, he would probably have to adapt.

However, somehow I just can't imagine him pictured on a mountain side with a scope that weighs more than 3/4lb.

To be honest, i doubt he'd be spending much time getting excited over the rifles. He would comment they were generally significantly more accurate. What would really be getting him excited would be the advances in bullets and optics.

This probably won't answer the question but here is what O'Connor wrote in the 1978 edition of The Rifle Book, the year he died:

"I am an old man and most of my big game hunting is behind me, but often I am tempted to order a Ruger barreled action in some such caliber as .25/06, .270 or 7mm Magnum, have Al Biesen or Jerry Fisher stock it in good French walnut, and then dash off into the wild blue yonder and knock off a ram or grizzly."

Alzheimers is really a biotch.

Some may think we have it better, however I would give up the supposedly better rifles of today for the hunting he had.

30plus day trips into the back country for multiple animals. Moose, Sheep, Bear, Mt. Goats, Deer and more of them than most today can imagine. 30in Mule Deer were commonplace back in the 50s and early 60s. No complicated and restrictive drawing for tags. Private landowners that mostly welcomed one to hunt.

I'd trade that for any rifle, bullet and scope made today. Jack was right were he should of been. Doubt if he would trade it for what we have today.

I highly doubt that...He'd probaly whip out some pics from his photobucket acct showing how good his pre 64 model 70's shoot with good ol bullets like the nosler partition and make guys like you who have no clue stop and think about what you just said:

Not sure which rifle ... but surely it would be chambered in 7-08 ... its far mo'better than a 270

AND yes ... I called you surely

Maybe we can convert him to the 7x57...........................

Gus

Hey BSA .....you missed the orange dot..........thats no good my friend..........Haha!!

Gus

Hey good ol buddy, look at the second target . Just fixed the other post for you. That was the first group I shot with my old standard weight model 70 (made in 1951) 30-06. It was wearing its original stock with metal butt plate and also had a vintage (old) redfield 3-9x40 scope on it.

Although I could see him sneaking off while no one was looking and using something like my extreme weather model 70 30-06:



And again this is with old style bullets . Gus, I hit the orange that time

My guess: A Model 70 in 270 Win., 06', or 7RM, topped with a 3.5x10 Leupold with a BC reticle.

270

Amen.

270

Everything I've read stated that he was a fan of the 7x57. He took delivery of the very last pre-64 7x57 to come out of the Winchester factory.

Hell, all I'm curious about is what wood stocked beauty did you lug up a goat mountain in Alaska. Not a tough question and I even typed slow for you.

hell, im curious why a guy who says he couldnt give a chit what jack would bought then or now , keeps coming back to the thread and posting?
looking for some attention?

I'm wondering why you ever came back to the fire also Cohiba

Since he wasn't gay, I doubt he'd choose the 7mm-08.

the black ones are much easier to see.
I dont take pics of many target or keep many other than my coldbore target(s) but this one i did tuck away in the logbook...
the last shot was a called pull. I never can get that 5th one in. nerves I guess.
I would hate to advertise what kind of rifle it was, lets just say it has a .308 20" BBL and a 4 round mag. And says "MADE IN AUSTRIA" someplace on it. but as a production rifle shooting .36" groups with soft points, i'll take it.

After 9 years of being between Flippant and Glib, all you have to show for it is 50,000 posts at about 5600/year. It is clear most of your time is at a keyboard and not hunting. The most you ever shoot is your mouth, why don't you give it a rest???

ALL my rifles shoot tiny groups...as long as I can ignore all the flyers I don't like.

counting the flyer i think thats not to bad. thats an outside measurment written on there. not CTC.

You did own one in the past ... didn't you?

I recall an episode where Swampy had to shoot a dink multiple times with a 7mm-08 and seems like he had to finally beat that poor critter to death with the gun. Doesn't sound like it was a pretty scene.

With that horror story, a statistical sampling of one, he concluded that the 7mm-08 was incapable of killing deer. That forever changed the profile of that caliber on the Fire. I even got rid of the one I had.

DF

Given Jack's proclivity towards fine rifles he might well have gotten a new CRF Model 70 action or maybe a granite mountain action and had the David Miller Co barrel and stock it (cold rust blue and fine walnut. The cartridge?.....270 of course.

He'd go to Wal-Mart and buy a 770.

270? doubtful.
I think he would have continued the woods rifle but built it on a short action. since the 308 wasnt around till 52 (the year he left OL) he designed it on the common action and brass of the 8x57.
I think he would have been very happy with the 338 federal.

Jack was a sheep hunter. While he liked to hunt a lot of different stuff and did, sheep hunting was his passion. He liked rifles that were light in weight and shot flat. In his day, a light weight mountain rifle was something weighing no more than 8 pounds � he mentions that specifically in one of his books. He did like speed, the faster it shot the flatter it flew which made range estimation out to 300 or thereabouts not so tricky. However he did not particularly like rifles that kicked hard, so a fast, flat shooting, relatively light recoiling .270 was a natural for him.

So whatever he got it today, it would be light weight, fast and flat but not some hypervelocity Ultra magnum which would knock the snot out of you. Likely candidates would be a ULA or NULA , maybe a Kimber classic. He was one of the original proponents of �it�s where you hit�em, not what you hit�em with�, he wrote an article so titled in a Gun Digest of some years ago. Combine light recoil and flat shooting and he may have loved the new TSX�s and being able to go down some in weight to fly faster but kick even less.

He wasn�t really around when synthetics began to be widespread so we can�t really say if he�d hate them or appreciate their qualities of light weight and strength. He might have a Model 70 Featherweight in a Borden Rimrock stock. The original Jim Cloward design is basically a copy of Biesen�s stock design, so Jack would feel right at home handling it.

He�d probably carry a range finder but I don�t know if he'd twist turrets or not. He liked to place his bullets precisely so that could go either way. He wasn�t a big fan of high power scopes or fancy doodads, he valued reliability up in those steep mountains. Even at long range he figured a good 4X was good enough. He might gravitate to an FX II 6X, though.

Combine all of that:
NULA in .284 with 120 TSX
M70 Fwt in a Borden stock in .270 shooting 110 TSX (although he shot a 130 Partition so long he�d likely just as soon keep using that). He might even like a .270 WSM or a 7mm WSM with 120�s.
Kimber 84 or 84L, the former in 7-08, the latter in .270 or .280 AI.

I know he�d appreciate the practical advances that have been made and would eschew any of the foo foo stuff. He�d probably still accommodate you graciously at his home but tell you to piss off if you bothered him much at a gun show.

John - if that be the case (Walmart & M770 for JOC) that would mean his old "buddy" Elmer would want a Barrett .50BMG. After all, Elmer NEVER wanted to be under-gunned...and JOC would learn what LMFAO meant! Homesteader.

Really doubt that. As Idaho Jim said, JOC liked flat-shooting, high speed cartridges. Regarding synthetic stocks, perhaps like a lot of older guys, he valued traditional wood and blued steel.

OT--BTW, I was recently tempted by a gorgeous model 52 Steyr in a local shop. What stopped me was the steep rake of the Monte Carlo comb which looked like it could give a pretty good bruise. Any thoughts on that?

Jack would do exactly what he did in 1950. He would buy a Winchester M70 have the barrel turned down or rebarreled and dropped in a nice piece of walnut by one of todays's best makers.


ddj

Smarter than I thought......

A lot has been made about Jack shooting a 270. So much so I think the name should be changed to the 270 O'Connor. The fact is he used a lot of different calibers, including a 458. He also liked the 7X57 for some game. I bet he would do the same today.

Probably something similar to this.

Nice one, Larry.

What's the story on it?

DF

That's pretty funny chit right there..

JOC became a hunting icon based on his writings on the Winchester Model 70 and the .270WCF. I don't see him changing that because it would alter his previous statements and therefor make him a little hypocritical. If he still had his "column" he would review new stuff, state their advantages and disadvantages and let the reader form their own opinion. In the last 35 years there has been a lot of new things to hit the market. But then again, the more things change, the they stay the same.

One might ask, what are the ten most important advancements or changes in the shooting/hunting world in the last 40 years? In fact I'll start a new thread.

I want to know too.

Looking forward to seeing that..

I'm jealous of Larry, one of the lucky that has actually handled one of JOC's 270's. That looks like No. 2 but I could be mistaken. Thanks for the pics...a lot of stories to be told by the usage shown on that beauty.

Sure is a big grin on his face, holding that rifle, like he knows something we don't.

From the wear on the Leupold and rings, that gun has been used a good bit. Sure is a nice one.

You don't think he'd taunt us and not come clean with the "rest of the story", do you??

DF

That is Jack's personal 270. Yes it was #2.

These pictures were taken at the gunmaker's guild gathering in Reno, NV a few years ago.

His son Brad has it now. He has posted other pictures of it on the forum before.

Well, I guess that explains that wall to wall grin on your face.

DF

He sure as hell wouldn't pick Swampy's favorite 700!!!

Actually that's the way I look most of the time. Folks use to hate to play poker with me because I almost always had that sort of look.

But, I will have to admit it is a very nice rifle and I was very happy to be able to look it over as well as I could.

A Ruger, 35 Whelen, Leupold

I just checked in Robert Anderson's book on JOC. This is the Al Biesen Featherwt M-70, #423509, that Jack bought in 1959 from Erb Hdw. in Lewiston and sent to Al for restocking and other refinements. The trap buttplate was engraved with a ram and the grip cap, a moose head. The scope was a Leupy Mountaineer 4X in Buehler mts, the rig weighing 8#'s. It was Jack's favorite and took mult game in Botswana, Spain, Iran, Scotland , B.C., Idaho, Wyoming and Monana. It was the last rifle he hunted with.

You were holding a whole bunch of shooting history.

DF

That's more like it mate!!!

For me to hit the orange dot at 100 metres it has to be the size of an orange!! My eyyes aint what they used to be - even through a 9x scope!!!

Gus

That for sure.

If Jack came back from the grave, he'd get ole #2 from Brad and put it back to use.

It took him a lifetime of gun development to end up with that one and it suited him perfectly. It would be hard to improve on perfection.

IMHO,

DF

I know that Tom Turpin who posts here as tsquare has much better pictures of this rifle than I do. Maybe he will post them along with other rifles of Jack's. Somehow I doubt Jack would change much of what he would use if he was still with us today.

The new FN rifles are not better, why do you make such uniformed statements. I am inclined to believe you are an imbecile.

Imbecile?

Maybe a Troll?

He's special, no doubt.

Just not sure of the diagnosis.

DF

Larry,

Congrats on holding history.

Jack would not have used anything but a wood stock. What many of us have come to think as "in vogue" would have turned Jack's stomach of given hi an acute case of the vapors!


ddj

He would have flipped out at what we call "custom" rifles today.

Right on Bob.

For my money that right there is perhaps the best post in this thread on the subject.

I could see him using a FN Model 70 Supergrade in 270. Possibly their Safari model in 375 H&H for African use.

I think he�d be disappointed with the cost cutting measures of modern manufacture. Ever since the auto industry dropped the vent window, and Garcia dropped Bofor�s Steel, everything�s gone to hell.

I second the vent window as being one of the great losses.

Nah, he'd go 8400 in 7 WSM or 300 WSM!

The rifle features a pre-64 model 70 action, and Biesen floorplate and trigger guard. Stocked in French Walnut with ebony forend tip and checker in Fleur de lis pattern, 29 lines per inch. The Biesen trap door butt plate and pistol grip cap are engraved with Jack�s Pilot Mountain Dall Sheep. The rifle is complete with a Leupold VXIII 4x scope, bases and rings by Leupold.

Another bazinga!!!

Scratches? Why it's blasphemy to do that to a custom "hunting" rifle. How dare him build something like that and then actually use it for what it was made for. Jack must have been a little Loony....

The FN Model 70 Winchester is actually a fairly accurate rifle. That's what makes it better than anything Winchester ever produced.

Another opinion with no backing!!!

Glad I don't stay up nights worrying about what rifle some dead dude would buy.

Some of the girls get cramps like that.

JOC killed some nice sheep. Sure wish Steelhead would oblige us and post pics of the sheep that he has killed, seeing as that he seeks to disparage JOC every chance he gets.

Dont be so hard on Steelie...
Having a head that inflated AND firmly stuck up your rectum probably has a lot to do with his disposition.

He would walk right past the 270's and pick up a 280. Even Jack O'Connor admitted the 280 was a better cartridge.

Can't speak for Steelie and don't personally have anything against Mr. O'Connor, but I didn't give a schit what rifle he used when he was alive either.

He just wrote about rifles. He ain't Ronald Reagan.

JM

What does the fact that someone has successfully hunted a particular animal have to do with another individual having to care what rifle they used to do so? Or what rifle they would use to do so today?



Please continue.

Dakota Arms Model 76 Alpine in 30-06. Sit a 6x Leupold on top and go hunting.

That line has been repeated many times. Where and when? In print?

Interesting to read some of the thoughts people try to put in a dead mans head.

....some of which give new meaning to the term the living dead.

No doubt.

Simple question, note I could care less what JOC would pick today for a rifle. My comment was JOC killed some nice sheep. Steelhead lived in Alaska, surely he killed some sheep while there.

You feel free to continue...

First and most obvious, in neither of your last two posts did you ask a question. In both you made statements.

Now I know some hunters in Alaska, that as of now have not killed Sheep and perhaps never will, nor may not ever attempt to do so. Some may like JOC, some may not and some may not give a chit.

I'm trying to keep it simple.

Geez not this again......who did he say that to? Can't recall....

Ok, I am going to try and say this real slow for you... I clearly asked Steelhead to oblige us with some pics of the sheep he had killed.

And, I could care less if you or people you know don't want to, or can't hunt sheep.

No you didn't ask. You "wished that Steelhead would oblige."

There is an old saying about wishing that perhaps you are familiar with.

Makes no difference if you care about the people I know from Ak.

However, I didn't say they didn't want to or can't. I did say, "that as of now have not killed Sheep and perhaps never will, nor may not ever attempt to do so."

The words are right there, what is so difficult?

+1

Thanks for the comic relief this evening!

Nope, been on 1/2 dozen goat hunts (sheep ain't got [bleep] on them), a few moose and 2 brown bear hunts.

I'd be curious to see what ringshitt has done in Alaska, tourist or otherwise.

Got off the plane there once coming back from OKINAWA. then back on and back to Sunny SC. Cant say i cared for it much. Seemed like a bit of a sausage-fest.
Perhaps thats your thing.

You reminded me of a cute little movie: Weekend at Bernie's, where 2 friends take him (corpse) out partying, even water skiing! Then I got back to thinking about: Isn't it a good thing to honor someone special, in this way?

At 68, I can say I grew up w/ Jack. His values meant something to me. Even after owning and loading many different calibers, I still think the .270 pre-'64 Featherweight is at the top of the list for an all-around medium size game rifle. It would make a sensational 1-gun battery and could easily replace both my .260 Rem and .30-06.

I believe I read it in his book. I will try and find it.

I have read most of what Jack wrote, and never read that statement. He did make that comment about the 30-06 though.

I remember reading that too. In regards to the good ol 30-06...

Funny, but very true.............Hb

The story about this got started in an article by Jim Carmichael.... when he was building a custom rifle with Clayton Nelson,the custom maker,Carmichael claimed that O'Connor told him to build a 280 instead of a 270,because the 280 was a better cartridge.

Did he say it? Who knows? Maybe he did....

280 admirers love to repeat the hearsay(no probative value),and accept it as gospel.But it runs counter to anything JOC ever wrote about the 280,and in print he felt the 280 held no advantage over a 270....he felt that what you could do with one you could do with the other.

And you will look high and low for evidence that JOC ever shot a single head of big game with the 280,despite building three of them(at the end of his career)....at least he never wrote about it.He certainly had ample opportunity as he was actively hunting when the 280 was introduced in the 50's....and the 7x64 Brenneke was available since the 20's.He could have used it, but didn't.....

OTOH he shot hundreds of BG animals with the 270 from moose and grizzly to Coues deer and African stuff.

So, really,there is no evidence that he thought the 280 was better.....just "stories".

I thought Townsend Whelen said that in his last years.

Who's Jack O'Conner? (grin)

JOC had plenty of caliber choices in his day besides the 270 and 30-06. The 270 Weatherby, 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Weatherby and 338 Win Mag were all available as well as the 300 H&H, 375 H&H and 375 Weatherby. With all of the additional caliber's available now it's really hard for to see where any of them are filling a real need. Jack chose the 270 and 30-06 for many good reasons and they are as good now as they were then.

IIRC Mr. O'Connor used the term magnumitis a fair amount. Don't think he coined it but it was definitely his opinion that you are better off shooting a lighter recoiling rifle you can hit with than a heavier recoiling one you can't.

It's been a while since I read every Gun Digest cover to cover but I do seem to recall that he did not have much use for either the 7mm Rem. Mag or the .300 Win. Mag.

Did JO ever pay for anything? He would be shooting what ever was free of charge.

Great stuff as usual Bob.

**********************************************

After reading some of Jack O'Connor's books, I just have to agree with BobinNH's thoughts as to what brand and caliber of rifle Jack O'Connor would have and use. He became familiar with the pre-'64 Model 70s and was well-satisfied with the rifle plus he hunted successfully with several different cartridges, but also preferred the famous .270 Winchester which still is a truly great choice for the majority of thin-skinned big game animals.

While Jack O'Connor used his .270 for grizzly bear, I'd prefer something heavier and more of a "stopper", but no one can argue with O'Connor's success with his favorite cartridge, his beloved .270 Winchester. It is, after all, an OUTSTANDING cartridge that just keeps gettin'-things-done, year after year... decade after decade!

And, let's face it... just how superior are all these "new" magnum cartridges as compared to the old .270 Winchester?

Hmmmmmmm... yes, it's true that they are definitely "superior" in one category... RECOIL !~!~!

Jus' my 2�...


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

I have to agree with you about the Dakota Model 76 Alpine Deluxe. It would probably be in 270 Winchester, but he might go with the 7x57 Mauser for lighter recoil. Talley rings and bases with a Swarovski Z3 3-10x42 scope.

Mr. O'Connor bought his No. 2 Featherweight in a hardware store in Lewiston, Idaho.

I see its time to start re-reading JOC columns and features from about 1958 to 1968 in my collection of Outdoor Life magazines. May pull a tidbit or two out to mention here.

What a silly thread.

Well just ignore it.

Jack would have approved of what I picked up, today, the last of my 10-day wait. One of the last pre-64's, a .30-06 Featherweight in really nice condition:

Nice rifle, too bad they put that ventilated pad on it though...

Does seem a shame, even though it appears to have been a professional job, but that pad saved me $100's; it is the single reason I got this for $800 otd. Plus I would want a pad on any rifle of this recoil potential. Even my .260 Rem has a pad. I'm a lightweight--I know!

Nevertheless, very nice rifle there. I've got one with a pad and one I kept with the aluminum butt plate. I enjoy shooting the one with the decelerator recoil pad much more than the other. I was wondering what your $800.00 rifle looked like. Thanks for posting the pics...

Looks like a nice clean rifle!

No biggie on the pad;by that late in production,the FW's all had a thin plastic butt plate anyway; the aluminum checkered plate was gone.

The problem is- that stock looks like it was cut for the pad.

I would ditch the ventilated wreck and put a repro Red Winchester Lightning logo pad on it from GALAZAN and rock on.

Nice rifle.

OT--Yeah, I was tempted to right away change out the pad, thinking: This thing must be hard as a rock. But, now that I've had a chance to give it a more thorough going over, the pad looks OK, so I'll try it for awhile. BTW, it's a 1963.

Jim may be right about the stock...the Galazan pads are nice.

I believe I am right.

Look at the length of the comb line along the Monte Carlo at the back. Looks pretty short.

Unless the previous owner who installed that pad had the LOP requirements of an Orangutan, that stock was most likley cut a bit cut to offset the extra 3/4" of length the stock added.

lovely rifle

If the Encore was my only option, I'd probably look seriously at archery.

Hey, I resemble that remark! laffin'

It looks like the recoil pad of the 300Win Mags.. I bet it says Winchester on the back of the pad. If so, that might be a factory ordered pad from the original owner. That WAS a custom offering back then. Is the lop normal - 13 3/4" or very close? It'll always be open to conjecture unless a copy of the order is found. Either way a great find.

The pad is a Pachmayr White Line which appears to have been professionally installed and is still in good condition. LOP is normal ~13-5/8". This rifle was a good buy because of its rather high condition. Never even attempted to haggle w/ the dealer (which I have otherwise ALWAYS done). At any rate, I would have wanted a recoil pad on any Featherweight w/ the power of a .30-06. Jack would have approved (for me).

I have a sneaking suspicion dead people don't give a schit what you shoot.

Laffin.

Nice rig, I'd wrap a Hunters Edge around it, add Talley's and a 6x36 w/dotz and get to filling up arks.

Dober

Hey folks, I read over it the first two times. "Pal" had to wait 10 days in California before getting approval to take physical possession. Not TEN minutes for a 4473 approval - TEN freaking days. All the while the "occupiers" in California ran rampant thru the streets causing damage, blocking traffic and costing thousands of hours of public sector overtime. The Mayor of Oakland specifically ought to be tried criminally and sued civilly for her acquiescence to the anarchists. This is the bullcrap we have to guard against. Ok, rant button off.

Im sure JOC would browse GUNBROKER for hours on end.

Bigwhoop: Indeed that 10 day waiting period in kalifornication land scares me - its amazing what voting liberal can do for the freedom of the people!
Lesson: be careful, VERY CAREFUL, who you vote for!
The morally repugnant and bankrupt entity know as california is what I fear is going to happen to the United States if peoeple keep voting the liberal line (you didn't work for it and you don't deserve it but "we" are gonna take it from your neighbor and give it to you anyway, SUCKA!).
Again be careful who you vote for.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Yeah, Jack would not have liked what our lawmakers have foisted on some of us.

OT--I'm pretty happy w/ the piece of wood it's in, actually. 1st is getting the scope mounts right, so I can easily convert to iron sights.

Interesting and entertaining thread.

Well, it's all conjecture isn't it? Who knows for sure what would catch Jack's eye today. Although very opinionated and not hesitant to share his opinions with his readers, I believe he strived hard to be open-minded and realized that any product could always be improved upon.

When the initial descriptions of the Kimber 84M first appeared in the gun rags, two things came to mind for me. First, this may be the rifle design that I've always been looking for. And secondly, I bet old Jack would like this one. (I picked up a upgraded 84M in .260 and have never looked back).
Here again its all guesswork on my part. Could be all wrong. For sure Jack would have been bitingly critcal of Kimber's at times sloppy execution of an otherwise sound and innovative design. (My own 84M wont feed after stuffing four or more rounds in the mag. Still haven't sent it back to the factory to get it fixed).

One thing I do know for a fact. I would give a lot of hard earned pesos to be able to walk down to my old neighborhood drugstore, pick up the latest issue of Outdoor Life and peruse a Jack O'Connor review of a newly released Kimber 84. It would be an interesting read no matter which direction Jack went with the review.

Regards to all campfirers.