You are "Guaranteed" your shot is going to be 100yards and under on Whitetails.

I've seen the plan Jane Round Nose bullets often shoot amazingly well at 100 and they have an excellent track record for that kind of work. Yet the majority don't use them.

Why?

Veddy good question. I have some 30 cal 200 gr. Hornady RN's I'm thinking about selling since I have a .338 win mag, 9.3x62mm, 375 h&h, 348 winchester for my heavy work. No need in trying to turn my 30-06 into a locomotive anymore.

My little Model 7 .243 shoots 100gr round tips veddy good.

I've actually given thought to that as of late. I have woods only days that I couldn't shoot 100 if I tried.

I'd also like to bust a deer with some cast bullets in my 338 Federal. I've not checked on molds, but I'm sure I could find something.

TTSX through the shoulders. Most likely DRT, and minimal, if any wasted meat.

Really good question. My experience mirrors yours, Ive shot RNs and they invariably shoot well. Anyone who casts bullets will tell you the closer to cylindrical that they get, the better they shoot. ( Hence the use of full wadcutters for target shooting.)

No doubt, but I'm running short on 130gr .308 TTSX and they have been more than a little hard to find lately. Have a lot of others that will work, but was just doing a little off the wall rambling.

Now come on ingwe. I'm thinking these are pretty cylindrical (cigar if you will ....). But I don't know if I can get the dang things to shoot worth a hoot in any of my 30 cals. I just keep them around for the cool factor ..:



250 gr. barnes, shown with a 308 win case for size comparison...

Clearly, you just dont get it. You MUST be able to shoot 1,000 yards even IF you are "guaranteed" a shot at 100 or less...

Its all about the ability to shoot further donchaknow...

Cant help you on that! Ive shot 220 gr RN solids in a .30-06 and of course 175 RN solids in a 7x57, plus 300 gr. soft and solid in a .375, and 180 gr. softs RNs in a .300 H&H...all shot excellent...the 180 gr in the .300 H&H was scary accurate....

Round nosed bullets don't suddenly drop from the air at a certain distance while their spitzer siblings fly on, laughing in haughty superiority With a RN bullet you just need to be better at estimating the range and figuring, out and then compensating for, the bullet drop.

And we MUST work up a load that averages 1/2" accuracy for shooting at 100 yards or less. Otherwise we won't be able to hit them in exactly the middle of the correct rib, or precisely up the bunghole.

Call me whimsical, but I detect a hint of facetiousness......

You need something for the Kimber/Savage?

The Hornady 117 Round Nose shot really well in a pard's Pre '64 257 Roberts. He stacked up a pile of game with it.

A big pill up the bunghole always works doesn't it......

Sounds like a suppository.

Thanks, but I'm good. Have 50 left, but I have more than a little of others that will work, but just may try something different for kicks.

Appreciate the offer.

Where I'm deer hunting locally from a tree stand, I'd be lucky to get 75 yards. I'll be using the 8mm 170 Hornady round noses. Near enough to the same POI and speed of the 175 Sierras load @100 yards and below.



I really dont know. I was rather upset when Sierra discontinued the 6.5mm 160 SMP. Here's the email reply;



My unqualified 2 cents.

I mix and match depending on where I'll be hunting (terrain, distance), what I'll be hunting, and more importantly, what I'll be hunting with.

Some of my favorite bullets accuracy wise are the Prvi 9,3mm 285 grain RN.

I wrote but not "butt". Pay attention dammit!!!!

Hey JB said up the "bunghole", what was I to think???

Just about the only bullet I shoot are all round nose. Simply put I like old stuff!!!

And MILF's

WOW , SHAZAM !

the best I can say is NOTHING at all.

At your age MILFs beat Cougars.

There is a smily face there. You just don't see it.

I'll be loading/shooting some Rem 170gr RNCL in my .308Win this fall. If I didn't handload, I would use Remington's 180gr RNCL load. Even against a high BC 168gr HPBT-Match bullet, given the same starting speed (and same 200yd zero), the difference is only about 3-3.5" less drop @ 300yd. Velocity and energy is far behind, but still way more than adequate, with right at 1000ft lb!!!

Every time!!!!!.

Believe me I know what you mean.

I shoot the 168ttsx because the guy that owned the rifle before me worked up loads with 165NP and 168tsx. The ttsx shoot just as well as the tsx so why not use the tipped ones? I have a box of nosler partitions that I need to load up since I just found a brick of CCI250's which is what the previous owner used in his loads. I also was able to snag the correct powder as well. I just need to get around to loading some up.

I don't know how you guys with a ton of different calibers do it, I can barely keep up with loading for my 2 rifles.

Never tried any RN bullets, not yet anyways.

By in large the RN bullets for a given caliber are typically at the top end in weight. Top end bullets me less velocity and I truly believe that speed kills for deer sized critters.

I'll take a 62gr TSX over a 117, 175, 180, 220, 250 grain RN.

Yeah, speed kills. I am a believer on that too.

I also have always since I began been of the opinion that if I can make my load more accurate, the accuracy beyond the absolute minimum necessary to kill decently is insurance room for me to make a mistake in. Likewise, that flat trajectory is insurance room for me to make a mistake in range estimation.

Add those things to a bullet that is moving fast and kills better than a slow moving RN, and I feel like I have done the best I can to make it all come out the way I want when I pull the trigger.

Out to around 300 yards, the RN is not giving away anything to a spritzer.

Dat reminds me Scott, with a 1 in 8 twist tube inbound, I am presuming I can shoot the 62 TSX in a .223AI with no mag mods. Correct?

The reason 100 yards and under was the parameter. While speed doesn't hurt, absolute minimum accuracy-and RNs can be extremely accurate at that range-and flat trajectory are not demanding requirements.

The only way one can see the difference in trajectory between a RN and Spitzer at 100 is on a line graph and even then it may be hard.

Sub-100yds 'garanteed' and I might just be using my 12ga semi-auto slugger. Hasn't not worked yet and well at that. For me using it, they quit running at all when I started shooting for some bone.

Not Scott, but they work fine in my Kimber with no mag mods.

This stuff is always funnier than [bleep].

Now I personally have zero interest in purposely hamstringing a given cartridge's relative abilities,by stoking it with the schittiest boolit possible...though others are seemingly hip on the notion. Suplized noone mentioned sectional density and attempted to swoon it too,as it frosts fluff nicely and seemingly soothes them who shoot the least.(grin)

The RN has ZERO advantage,at any range and if that interest folks,please have at it. If concessions horn folks up,the RN is far and away the best route to fly.(grin) Perhaps "Brush Busting" will also get mentioned?!? Laffin'!

Points awarded,for opting a fast twist .224" spout and paying zero attention to it's throat geometry and disregarding the sanctity of the latitude associated said platform's relative COAL versatility.

Can see where this is gonna get GOOD....as I very much enjoy the humor associated with folks making easy schit difficult(grin)





Ooops...a 'gwedendum,for hurt feelers.(grin)

Point was/is,that in any build blueprint,one has total control of the throat geometry and that is music to the ears of the astute. That given,conjoined with finite control over COAL magbox latitude as per this scenario,is as sweet as things get. To purposely toss such advantages aside,is heavy concession and a curious route of travel.

Now will a 62TSX or 62TTSX's ogive ride below casemouths,in say a worst case scenario in a Krunchenticker's trite P-Mag confines?!? Nope.

Will a 50V-Max,62TSX and 75A-Max require different COAL's,to be in like relationship of a given throat's lands? Yep. Will a 2.450" 75A-Max 1-8" 223AI kiss,afford lotsa latitude as per relative projectile versatility and still allow repeater feed/function ala a massaged 700's box? Re-yep. Do such benefits,hamstring the 50 cited,in it's ability to cajole a kiss? Nope.

A guy can have his cake and eat it too and if he ain't ringin' them bells on a build...he assuredly ain't payin' much in the way of attention.(grin)

Brightside bein',there ain't no downside. Here Endeth The Sermon...thank me later.

Hint.

Off to form cases in The Dick Rifle.

Yeah, they can be just as accurate. Yeah, if, and only if, the range cannot exceed say 100 yards so that optical effects cannot possible turn that into a lot more things can work OK. But it is not the least uncommon for heavy RN bullets to go through lungs and leave enough lung intact for a deer to go a hell of a ways. I have seen literally a couple hundred deer killed with heavy RN bullets out of 30-30s, 30-06s 32 Specials, 35 Remingtons, 30-40 Krags, and the rest of the common 50s/60s rounds. I was one of the youngest of the deer hunters then, and got to be "dog" when they needed chasing down.

Thanks, but I will take speed and shredded lungs every time. They might start inside 100 yards, but dragging one out of a couple hundred yards of grass swamp or more will make a person a believer in faster dead is better dead.

Hmmmm, I would have to perhaps agree when thinking back to what often went on back when RNs were more commonly used.

Don't be sayin' schitt like this, I have a feeling that can be hurt easily....

Battue you pose a good question. I ran a quick calculation using the speer .308 cal 150 gr. RN vs SP only changing only the BC of the input data .266/.389 both loaded to 2750fps scope 1.5 " above the bore, zeroed at 150 yds and found the following trajectory comparisons in inches. RN/SP:

100yds 1.0/0.8

150yds 0/0

200yds -2.6/-2.3

250 yds -7.2/-6.3

300yds -14.1/ 12.1

At 300 yds both easily exceed the 1000 ft/lb energy level which I see commonly recommended for deer.
Finally to answer your question I will probably continue to shoot SP bullets in my 308& 30-06 because in the past I have bought a bunch of bulk bullets which are commonly SP design and until I use them up well lets just say I'm cheap. On the other hand I do have about 40 of the 150 gr RN speers so I think I will load up a box for use in my 308 and given I have way to many deer rifles that I rotate thru that will probably cover deer hunting with that rifle for several years to come.

Oh and if you want to change the zero to 200yds you can have a point blank hold out to 250yds. or so with either. The poi will gain about 1" at 100yds and not exceed -4" at 250 yds for either bullet.

Correct you are, however Miles raised a good point and Larry is probably thinking about clubbing him over the head with a fish bat for scaring some of us fish away. But, I've seen that presentation in the past and watched more than a few others get hauled up on shore with a crooked eye and photographed alongside a rainbow rifle, so was far from biting.

I still may give it go with the .300Savage as a bow to old times and maybe they will run towards the truck if I don't hit shoulders.

Well you'll note that I selected a 150 gr bullet in .308 for my examples as I won't disagree him. As someone pointed out round nose bullets tend to be heavy for caliber and in larger calibers >.25are generally constructed heavier than necessary for deer which I feel accounts for the problem more than than the bullet design. I also agree that unless you have a rifle that just really shoots the RN exceptionally well or for some other reason you have a bunch of RN bullets then there is little real advantage to using them as I don't buy them boring thru trees and brush that much better, but to your original point if I was out of components and there were was a box of RN available I would be hunting them without much concern.

How many of ya ever had a Round Nose Fail ya?

how many of ya have had or seen someone complaining about a TSX or TTSX failing them....

regardless of what some midget KnowITall tells ya...

One round-nose .30 that does lots of damage, yet also penetrates well, is the 170-grain Nosler Partition made for the .30-30. The soft front core opens up easily, but the rest of the bullet holds together even when shot from, say, the .300 Savage or .308 Winchester.

Haven't used it yet, but the RN 150 Ballistic Silvertip (also made for the .30-30) should do very well too.

M.D.: Earlier was thinking about asking Re: that. Thanks.


Seafire: If the question was about failure you would have a point. If Larry mentioned failure you would have a point. Neither is the case.

Obviously you are only looking for a pissing match. I know, you only want to save the Campfire.

battue, the round nose bullets have shot very well for me in many of my rifles... If I were limited to 150 yard shots or less, I would have little problem using them in several rifles.. Over the years I have used the 220 grain .30 cal. Silvertip on more than a few deer and several antelope.. It is a great killer.. I considered loading some 220 grain Noslers up this fall for my elk hunt.. BUT I have seldom hunted country either east or west where there is not a real chance of a longer shot cropping up.. Either moving to or from a stand, what ever.. I did a quick check of a 200 grain spitzer and a 220 rn BOTH SHOT IN 3 inches high at 100.. The rn drops about a foot at 300 yards the spitzer roughly half of that.. so the rn would drop enough to miss or worse cripple a buck at that range.. While the idea of being able to guess the range, drop, and make corrections for the shot sounds good sitting at the computer, it is the animal that suffers if we error in the estimation of any of it.. Plus shooting longer distance demands greater precision to begin with.. Since most shots come in low or fading light, that only adds to the problem.. I want everything on my side if I attempting a shot at that distance.. Ethics demand it as I am sure you agree.. However, if I have a situation where I know there will be no long shots or I will turn down shots of questionable distance, then go for the rn.. I think they are a neat looking bullet and they perform very well under proper conditions.. There are a few stands I have hunted in the past, that a rn bullet worked well maybe better than a pointed one, but now I seldom hunt those stands or they have been posted..
Also always in the back of my head was something Hagel said in one of his many essays.. Both a rn and pointed bullet will enable us to shoot deer in the timber at 150 yards or so, but when a 350-400 yard shot crops up there is no contest which is better..

Dammit John!

Pepsi out the nose...

I have never used a RN on game, but they do shoot well.

I have never had a TTSX or TSX fail me either, but i do find it funny that so many "failure" threads pop up with people bitching about how the bullet they recovered from a dead animal didnt look like the pictures on the website...

Rather shoot a RN bullet backwards than forwards.

I think you're onto something here!

What's the saying about 'hindsight'? 20/20 or thereabouts?


From my perspective & experience, I don't remember ONCE where a RN would have served me better.

There have been countless times I would have been handicapped with RN bullets.

I refuse to handicap myself OR my rifle's capabilities with RN bullets.

Y'all go to 'em and take competition away from GETTING pointee bullets.

To me it's really not a case of what is the superior design. Hands down there's no argument there waaay better projectiles available. . Simply put I just prefer RN's. Never had any issues with them. Just like 'em. Just like I always shot and had no issues with round balls in my flinters and percussion guns and rifles.

Reason good enough ....... I just bought 400 154grRN Hornadys for my 7x57R cuz I like them and will do anything I need them to do except be "The Best Bullet Evah!".

I almost-not quite- used those in the 7x57 on a leopard hunt. Turns out I probably should have...

I know it doesn't take a 400 grain bullet to reliably kill caribou but last year my 400 Whelen was still unblooded. My wife used it to pick off her caribou at 250 yards with the Woodleigh 400 grain round nose. It worked really, really well. The caribou rolled over like the tundra was jerked out from under it.

We're headed out tomorrow for a few days of caribou and moose hunting. Hopefully I'll get to try those big round nose Woodleighs on both and maybe even a bear. A guy can hope.

Mart

I've read there is a quote often used on the Appalachian Trail when one hiker is put down by another for their method of making the trip re: rest stops off trail, maybe not being a purist on walking the entire traditional trail, and other idiosyncrasies that can occur on such a long journey. It goes something like this; "You hike your hike and I'll hike mine."

Perhaps with a little variation it applies here also when we disagree, and as long as it is legal; "You hunt your hunt and I'll hunt mine."

Yep and if you are GUARANTEED that all shots will be under 100, you don't need a scope either.

Open sights in those situations are akin to the RN choice, people do it because they WANT to. There ain't an advantage to either, but it seems some like to think so and will quote Field & Stream, Jack O'Connor or Daniel Boone to attempt to prove it.

Folks would be so much better if the just said 'because I want to' with out stupid attempts at validation.

I don't intend to be hateful, arrogant, nor condescending.

Well sir, you asked the question WHY more do not shoot R N bullets.

Apparently you don't like the reasons given in answer to your question.

I have not tried to convert anyone, in fact I like the idea of less competition.

I have and will continue to hunt what, where, when, & how I prefer.

You & I STILL have the privilege of choosing to hunt & how.

Whoa!!!

First off I thought your post was not any of the above. There was nothing in it that I took offense to and thought you were just writing your opinion and throwing some humor in with it. Didn't think you were trying to convert me or anyone else.

The original question was just something that passed through my mind thinking about what I will use if I use up the remaining 50 130gr TTSX screwing around. So I threw it out for conversation and knowing how things go here the possibility exists it will turn into a cat fight.

My last reply was not directed at you, AND if it was there is a good chance your name would be on the header. This one being an example. It was directed to the topic in general.

Your line was "You & I Still have the privilege of choosing to hunt & how." Mine was; "You hunt your hunt and I'll hunt mine." Seems like we agree.

Take care and have a great fall hunt.

^^^^
This.



Ive done plenty of the new school speed kills route...happily.
Ive done plenty of old school, big heavy slow bullets kill route too....happily.

Will do more of both, because I want to.

You got me on a roll now Jwall,

First off, most of you guys are serious rifle shooters. Me? I just screw around with them. Fact is before I came to the fire, I screwed around with them a lot less. Shotguns took up the majority of my time. The fire definitely lighted the fire to shoot rifles more. Shotguns are often work for me, with rifles hours seem to fly by in a blink. I don't intend to ruin that by making it work, so while I've learned more about rifles since I joined then I ever thought there was to be learned, I'm not a serious student of the art.

However, after shooting more than a few Deer over 50 years here in Pa. and being in on the kill of probably more than twice that many, I do know what works in the wood and some of the BS does strike me as humorous.

Again not directed at you personally, just a general observation of what often goes on here.

Glad we didn't get into the 'brush busting' part of the discussion.

Mr. Battue:

I sincerely meant that I did not have bad intentions.

I'm NOT SURE if you OR I misunderstood the other. I'll take the credit for misunderstanding you.

As you know 'misunderstandings' are common not only here but a lot of other places as well.
.
.
.
.
Yes we do agree, and I hope that continues.

Jerry

Now you done it, the seed is in the ground.

OK, now lets talk about brush busting qualities

Exactly. Why do some people hunt with flintlocks, or with black powder cartridge rifles, or a 1903 Springfield sporter and a 2-1/2x Lyman Alaskan? Or for that matter a longbow.

Other people hunt with the absolute limit in technology, whether a compound bow capable of killing at 80 yards, a muzzleloader with a 3-9x scope using pellets and sabots, or a modern rifle with a "tactical" scope, fast-twist barrel shooting ultra-high BC bullets, and a ballistic program on their smartphone.

Now, there are some hunters who think they're morally or intellectually superior because they use a flintlock or super-scope. Apparently that's how some humans will always be--again, because they want to. But it's really stupid to call somebody else stupid because they choose to hunt with a flintlock, longbow or round-nosed bullet.

Have fun Jerry, the ride and journey is a short one.

Again, I didn't take offense to anything you or anyone else wrote on the subject.
Well there was one, but he was just pissing in the wind.

Harry

The 7x57 IS morally, intellectually, and panache-wise superior to all others. With or without RNs



Because I want it to be....

Need more popcorn now.

Just don't try to 'gay it up' with a .270 RN....

UH-OH I've shot 160 gr NP's in my .270 Winchester/Weatherby. Those are Semi-Spitzers though not RN's.

Doesn't count unless you have shot threw a 4in sapling, killed the Deer on the other side and got a limit of Grouse and a 25 pound Turkey with the fragments.

In my experience just about any centerfire rifle bullet will bust brush. It's hitting and killing some animal on the far side of the brush that's the problem.

Ahh, I see a tiny green sprout. Ingwe uses nothing but the most fertile of seeds....

Oh sheet! Am I a closet type and don't know it??? Honest I really do like MILF's!!

Whew! Glad I don't havta worry about that!!!!!

Just loaded some Winchester 150 gr Power Points for a 99F 308W. The bag says FN but they look like RN's to me. Looking forward to seeing how they shoot.

Out near Sinnemahoning, PA there are a few 100 yard chances.

99, Years ago, I had a couple pals that lived up in that country near Sinnemahoning.. Both were dedicated long range shooters.. One of them knocked off a buck with his 7x61 S & H target rifle at just over 800 yards!!
Beautiful country there.. You still deer hunt that territory??
The land of endless mountains.. Have a good one..

Talking about bullets I was looking at an old Handloader from 1966.. Hornady offered 66 different bullets 28 were either round nose or flat nose bullets.. There were a total of 2 boat tails, both were match bullets.. Times have changed..

I shoot pointys in my 270Win and RNs in my 7x57R.

I am confused.

.... cuz I want to. No other reason.

SuperCub, you mentioned getting some 154 grain Horn. RN in 7mm..
Are those still made?? Haven't seen a Hornady list for a long spell.

WCH,

My brothers and I have been hunting there the last few years for PA rifle season. Rent the state cabin off of Broooks Run Road. Drive to the top of the mountain, we turn left. Saw a huge bull elk on top of the mountain a couple of years ago, just off the dirt road we were on. Majestic! Hooked us on Sinnemahoning.

We love it out there but there is a lot of public land available to hunt closer to us. We had hunted Sullivan cty prior to going to Sinnemahoning and enjoyed that too.

Won't be too much longer.

I've done HALF of that. Shot thru a 4" sapplin and killed the deer....

BUT no grouse (in Ark) and didn't get the turkey.

Does my 270 get 1/2 credit for brush busting? (shouldn't leave the door open like that.)



Yep, the critical 'criteria' is the distance BETWEEN the brush and game.

THIS ONE??

How dare you take offense at a mere statement of pure fact....

I found a source here in Canada that still had some on hand. I was surprised when they emailed they did have them in stock expecting to have to use 175gr RN instead.

Many RNs are not offered or made any more, being the victims of marketing.

SuperCub, your quite right.. After I ask that question, I checked the Horn. site.. While bullets were not be presently made, there was only ONE roundnose bullet listed for 7mm and it was the 175.. Good find..

Yup, and I think they only make on ea in 30cal, 6.5cal and 257cal. The old stand-bys.

The 270 is CLEARLY heads and shoulders over the 7x57, esp with pointy bullets.



The 7x57 is kind of a dinosaur, so the RNs are a very fitting bullet to use in them.

Quite true !!! But the RN are neat looking, but so are the dinosaurs!!

I agree, but don't tell igwee.

99, Do you and your brother do any good on bucks in the Brooks Run Area??.. Fished that area of the state many, many years ago.. Some years I have hunted turkey there both spring and fall.. But never made it there during deer season.. Years ago, we stopped in the old Keating Hotel.. When we returned, found it had burned to the ground.. Lots of neat country and history there..
Did you catch the article in Pa. Game News about an old guy who lived all his live in that neck of the woods.. It was titled,
"Charlie Cross: Hunter." At least that is what I remember.. He was of course from the Cross Forks area.. Beautiful country there.. It would be great to see the leaves of the northern forests during the peak.. Enjoy..

No Problem. Poor ingwee, out of touch with the times.. But he seems like a kindly old soul..!!

SuperCub,

If you're thinking of the 6.5mm Hornady 160-grain round-nose, they dropped it a couple of years ago.

I knew I should have checked before opening my mouth. I'd never make a good lawyer.

Yeah but don't forget that even JOC chose the 7X57...............




for his WIFE !!

I shouldn't comment on that as I use the 257R the most.

Oh but the Roberts is a whole different animal and has the KOOL factor.

You know it's a totally different CALIBER !!

I don't shoot RNs in mine.

jwall,

Actually, Eleanor O'Connor chose the 7x57. Jack had one made for himself, but after Eleanor shot it she essentially said, "This one's mine." Jack eventually got another one built, which he used extensively toward the end of his life.

The cartridge he actually chose for Eleanor was the .257 Roberts, when they were living in Arizona. But she evidently wanted a little more zap when they moved to Idaho and could hunt elk every year.

This is a particularly vicious attack on my internet persona....




But I appreciate you going to the trouble of finding a 7x57, a dinosaur, and photographing them together....

When Eleanor was going to hunt Tigers in India,she had Lenard Brownell make her a .30-06,it was her "Big" gun. She also used it on Elephant using 220 gr Solids.

Still quick, nice.


Anyway, it will not be old school RNs for the Kimber .300Savage. Remembered that when I first got it 150gr Nosler NBTs were showing promise, so after the Steelers took a thumping I loaded some up and made a quick trip to the range.

For a light rifle it shined with them and I have around 350. 130gr TTSXs will be saved for the .308Ws which already have loads worked up. Things are great.

Careful, Ingwe learned how to call up bad mojo from all that time spent in Africa. He starts dancing with the snakes and it could get ugly.

Maybe THAT'S why his thong has SPOTS!!

I use the 154 Hornady RN bullets in my 7mm-08, scary accurate and very deadly. When they were discontinued by Hornady, picked up a few hundred at a discount price. 100-150 yds is a long shot where we hunt



One with CLB and my youngest

Now there you go...confusing my memory with FACTS.






I want to remember it My Way.

Some call them spots, some call them skid marks. Whatever works for you....

They make pointy nose bullets? This is progress...........?

I have heard of these things. I don't know what the hell the world is coming to......

I think they're called "spritzers," or at least that's what spell-check keeps calling them....

More important than the type of bullet, can the user put it where it belongs?

At 125yds 175 RN in a 7mag will body slam a big pa buck with a high shoulder shot like a pissed off hulk hogan... 20 yrs ago of course.

Battue -

Related to your o p, a sincere question.

What advantage/s do R N bullets have over 'spritzers' ?

The only two I can think of ?maybe? available, cheaper.

I could reverse the question and ask what advantage a pointed bullet has over a RN at 100. (An original qualifier that many seem willing to ignore.)

Some good points have been addressed I.E. speed, penetration, etc. A RN has a large amount of exposed lead and at .300Savage speeds with the right weight-I'm thinking, but never used them in a .300Savage-they should open wide, not come apart, leave a large wound channel and have enough penetration to be more than adequate on Deer.

I haven't used them in years and didn't realize that the weight options have become so limited. I wouldn't want a 180gr for a .300Savage, but would have really liked to try a 150 for old times sake in an old time cartridge. That's about all the why I have.

Hoooooever, I liked NBTs even when many thought they were nothing more than a big bang with little push. Today's offerings of them have more push according to those who know, probably will give them a go.

Fired these six off yesterday. Still had a little light, but thought why take the chance of ruining some positive feelings. I'm sure the barrel gremlins were happy with me for some reason at 200, so I'll give them more than a little credit.






I know, the rifle and I are far from the 0.5 MOA Campfire standard. It's the burden I have to live with.

battue -

First - good shooting.

Second - don't beg the question , which was yours.

Third - I'd agree per speed and penetration INSIDE 100 yds.

However I can tell you from experience of 'some' spitzers that'll do that at 'slow' speed.

What puts me in a different category is, and I'm serious, since 1987 where I've been hunting 50 - 400 yds. is more the norm. I have been a member of 2 deer leases and even when going to hunt in the woods, open terrain and longer shots
are always possible.

Even hunting where I did last yr. and again this yr. I mostly hunt in the woods but again more open terrain and longer shots are in the vicinity and possible.

This is the reason I can not see limiting myself, rifle, and load to 100 yds. That's in response to your ? about the benefit of pointy bullets.

Thanks
Jerry

Well, if I had to stretch it some, I'm positive I would have had a little cushion. Not a 400yard one for sure, but 200 wouldn't have scared me. 335 is the furthest I've shot one and that was with a 7mm-08. A few have been around 200 and the vast majority 100 and under, so I would have been playing the odds on where I hunt and being realistic about my own abilities.

I much prefer close than far. The closer the better

Addition: If one beat me with distance, he beat me. Move on and either get closer or find another.

No question points win when there is big air and even a little wind.

Great question considering that most New England deer are shot at closer ranges and in the woods as opposed to more open places.

Your example above is why I have been using the 154 Hornady RN in my Montana 7-08 which is my primary still hunting rifle.

Maybe it's the combination of a slower velocity and Interlock construction, but this bullet really puts the hurt on deer....and my rifle really likes them!

Then again, I mainly hunt with the 154's or a Partition of sorts.

Shot with a 35 Remington, no doubt round nose bullets too. This is my dad standing in front of the bear We think it was in 1938.

Just sayin' .......

Because Nosler still makes partitions.

The partition is just one of many better bullets that pushed RNs off the page, and many of todays next best thangs are nipping at it.

I don't think the old RNs are the best there ever was. Nor do I lament all that much about them dying out. Nothing more than sometimes going back has it attractions.

Sorry, I knew I missed/forgot something and just now found it.

I really do not have a preference, close OR far, BOTH are fun to me. I THOROUGHLY enjoyed last season, hunting ON the ground, NO STANDS, slipping around, spot/stalk, & jump shooting.

I also enjoy 'reaching out and touching' one at long range. For me that's @ 400 yds.

I really do LIKE close and far.

Best be careful. It starts out that way. Next thing you know its old Model 70s, then Savage 99s, then the old time cartridges, then MLs, followed by a compound, then traditional, carbon arrows move onto hand made wooden ones. Finally one day you catch yourself half naked out in the wood chipping flint while keeping an eye out for the perfect stick.

For years a pard and I did that stuff on an annual doe hunt. One year its lever guns, one year single shots, one year black powder cartridge....and on and on....

Within a 100 yards you could load the bullet backwards and it would do fine. Nothing against round nose bullets as I use/used them myself. The benefit in a round nose ususally has to do with performance on game much larger than deer or profile requirements for tubular magazines. If you are shooting a rifle that doesn't necessitate the use of them for safety they offer nothing more than nastalgic looks unless you are loading the DG rounds that are designed for Elephant and alike. That however, is enough for some. I have them, use them and have good luck with them as 90% of my shots on game are within 100 yards. At that distance there is no real advantage or disadvantage. On deer I use left over 150 gr RN that I had for a 30-30 and one of my favorite bear loads is a 30 cal 220 gr. Nothing that couldn't be replaced by a 150 SP or a 200 gr partition though. At the ranges I shoot/hunt it's a toss up and doesn't matter. I think they look cool and perform well IME. Personal opinion. Not to mention when you find them they are usually a bit cheaper than all the other fancy, plastic pointed counter parts. Deer don't take fancy bullets to be put in the freezer.

Hey Guys, don't let Cub fool ya.



Those Canadian coins are American DOLLAR size!

unfortunately one of those Canadian dimes is damn near worth a US Dollar.

I don't think about it much, I have been using 220 gr RN in my .06 longer than a lot of posters on here have been alive.

I must be a dinosaur because I've killed far more deer with round/flat nosed bullets than pointy ones. Course I've used the old .30-30 more than anything else over the years too. No partition or any other modern, super whiz-bang bullet would have killed any of those deer any better than the old round noses.

I'm outed!

I used to own that 358NM, but sold it to a young gun nut that I work with. It may be coming back to me on a trade and I see that Hornady is still offering those 250gr RNs. Bonus!

I bought 500 of the Hornady RN's last year in bulk. Going to start with those in the Ruger 7x57.

I've looked around on here for 8 or 9 years now and thought I'd finally sign up. I thought this would be a likely spot for a first post, so, howdy.
I'd read for years how well 175 Hornady RN's did out of a 7x57, so a couple years ago, I loaded a batch up for an Oklahoma hog hunt. I shot a little piggy at about 25 feet, it looked like you blew a coffee cup through her going and coming. Not a real breadth of experience with RN's, but I was impressed. But I didn't want to give up "spritzers".
We do a bit of thickett to thickett hunting and you can walk out of the woods into a wide open field, so, while the difference may be nit picking, I wanted pointy bullets too.
I dumped the same 49grn. of RL22 under those and a batch of 175 GameKings. At 100 (yards, this time) they pretty well fall into the same group out of my little 1A Ruger. Both get right on 2500 over the chrony.
Yes, my buds' do get annoyed when I repeatedly whack the 300 yard gong with the old blue nosed Hornadys. They are supposed to stop and fall harmlessly to the ground at about 125.
I figger if I ever do get after anything big enough to justify them, I'll dump the same load under 175 partitions.

Now if I can just kill something.....
Fall is on the way!!!

For the record, I tend to agree with Ingwe as to the absolute perfection of the 7x57!

Ahh, you guys are all wet. I used 'spritzers' religiously for decades- all makes and sizes and had 'nary a care. Then I switched over to mainly RN's and life was still good. Recently, I discovered I was fooling myself all those years when I discovered the joys of flat nosed bullets. I have attained Nirvana! (I'm almost afraid to try hollow points for fear of further clouding the issue.)

Since I only keep proven bullets on my bench, I think I'll close my eyes this year and pick one at random and go forth and whack something.

They work and have worked. They have a cool nostalgic look IMHO. For the majority of hunting that is done at the ranges it's done at their really isn't a pinch of difference if you ask the animal hanging from the meat pole. Target shooting at extended ranges is another story which I don't really care to read. Been there done that I'm over it and could care less. Did I mention RN's are a lot cheaper when you find them versus their pretty colored, plastic, pointy nosed counter parts.

I don't like most cup and cores, but I do like the Hornady RN's and the historic performance of Partitions can't be questioned. They have been getting it done every year since 1948....and are as universal a hunting bullet as it get's!

With us having killed several deer now with the 154's out of 7-08's, all I can say is that the bullet performance has been ridiculous. We are yet to catch one and "tracking" has been a 20 yard affair routinely (or less).

I have been trying to convince myself to try other bullets like TTSX, Amax, etc but then I get a cup of coffee and realize that evolution has not changed deer anatomy in the past 100 years and deer will be as easy to kill over the next 100 years.

Only in Texas do the deer have kevlar ribs which allow bullets from a .270 to bounce off....

My buddy and I have laid in a supply of Partitions in various weights and Hornady 154 RN that will last us a lifetime of deer and bear hunting in the Northeast woods. This given we are yet to kill a deer past 200 yards here.

And in my general experience over the years, any rifle that can't shoot Partitions and round nosers is pretty sick rifle.

cause them red pointy boolets is purty

Yup. Just when I had kinda "mastered" thumping stuff at distances beyond 400 yards, went back to thumping stuff up close'n personal again, with 444 Marlins and 35 Remingtons.

Now I got one of them newfangled 30-30s and am looking to conjure up some venison this fall with that trend setter.

But we all know round nosed bullets just fall outta muzzles and hit the ground right in front of ya. Right?

Go right ahead. I'll tell ya what, you can HAVE ALL them 30-30s and R N bullets. I'll not be any competition.

IF you are happy that's all that matters.

I'm happy, hope you are!

Glad you saw the humor.

Jerry

That .30-30 concept will never catch on....

That's more accurate!

Easy to see you haven't tried to buy any .30-30 ammo lately. There's plenty of .270, .30-06, .308 and .243 on the shelves here lately but .30-30's are still mighty scarce. The local Dick's just got a shipment in last week and it was all gone in two hours. Don't know about where you are but here in rural upstate NY the top 5 "big game" cartridges based on ammo sales are .243, .270, .30-30, .308 and .30-06.

I don't buy factory ammo, don't look for any.

Last I bought was in 2008 for a new rifle the DAY before deer season started.

BTW. It was NOT 30-30!

B T W - I have not owned nor hunted a 30-30 since 1975.

Don't miss it.

Really ? I've killed 64 deer with mine since then and would never part with any of them {I have 3}. I've used a couple metric schittons of other rifles and cartridges to kill deer with over the past 4 decades and have never been convinced any were better or more effective, all things considered, for most of the hunting I do. I still have several perfectly good scoped bolt actions in the safe {.223 , .243, .308 and .30-06} but mostly they collect dust while the .30-30's go hunting.

Really !

It's been a long time since I've seen anyone carrying a 30-30 in S Ark.

If it fills your needs--that's great.

I'm no competition for the rifles nor factory ammo.

It's all woods where I hunt these days {state forest}. Rare to get a shot past 80 yards. At the distances I kill my deer a .30-30 is as deadly as anything. It's still fairly common to see other hunters carrying lever action .30-30's, 32's and .35's around here. In fact, I got a bunch of friends together one afternoon to do some deer drives here a couple years ago and 3 of 6 showed up with .30-30 lever guns.

That's all you need, could use a handgun.

I have and it works.

I've killed a couple with a .357 Blackhawk but I don't rely on it as my main meat maker.

[quoteThat .30-30 concept will never catch on....] [/quote]

Several years into retirement, now upgrading from my stodgy M94 in 32 Special and other lever rifles. I ain't afeart of progress.

No RNs though, had to settle for some racy looking Sierra FPs, or as they call 'em, flat noses.

24" barreled M64 Winchester. Damn near on a par with the uber velocity stuff, might even crack 2500fps?

Bah! Flat Noses. The retarded cousin of the finely shape round nose. You want some flat nose bullets, just smash the point on a round nose.

j/k btw

Sometime around the mid-80s, Rem. made a limited run of M7600 pump carbines in 30-06 and my huntin' bud showed up with a new one in doe season.

No scope, factory irons and a coupla boxes of RN Core Lokts, 180gr I think? This was a guy who was a dedicated long range shooter, with assorted rifles for the chore, 40XB, custom Hart-barreled 300x7 Weatherby bench rifle, M700 Varminter in 6mm w/26" Douglass SS, etc.

Forget now WTH the deal was with the pump carbine, but he ran out the back door on opening day around lunch time and poleaxed a running doe with that thing, maybe 60 yards behind the cabin, up in the woods. Knocked her over like a one pin spare at the bowling alley, with big money on the line.

He said "this little bastard works" and was happy with the effort. Never saw it again at deer camp. One of them quirky little things that kinda sticks with ya, years later.

They're fairly popular where I'm at as well. Accurate enough for deer hunting at practical ranges and carry rather nicely. Depending on make, model, vintage they can be quite accurate. My uncle still has a early 40's vintage 94 that is damn accurate and I've watched him bowl over many a deer at over 200 yards with 170 gr core lokts.

Over the years I slayed my share of deer with any manner of centerfire rifles, all action types, bullet shapes and diameters. The last few seasons have found me toting a Savage lever carbine in .303 Savage exclusively- because I like it, and it suits me and my style of hunting. Oh, and the bullets I use? Really really old school- flat nosed 190gr. cast lead bullets. Perhaps this year I'll finish building my .30-40 Krag custom rifle in time for deer season, in which case the bullet will be a 220 grain cast lead number, round nose of course.

I kind of like being the only guy in my neck of the woods who doesn't carry a RemWinRuger with a Hubble telescope on it chambered in some 3000fps wonder cartridge. It's only a deer for petesakes, let's not overthink it.

Sine the RN'd bullets are still allowed to go past 100 yds, I'd not worry about it and shoot the hell out of them.

Give it time. Nobody from WI posted yet.

You can't be from WI...you didn't mention "busting brush."

Round nosed bullets are nostalgic, as are many of the guns we shoot them in and places we go with those guns. They remind us of our fathers, family & friends in better/simpler times. They did everything they needed to do then and still do it now.

That's reason enough for me to use them.

Amen! Which is why I also ration myself to 3 gallons of gasoline a week, take the family to the soup kitchen for dinner twice a week and wear a jacket and tie whilst mowing the lawn.

Now where did those damn paper hull shotgun shells go...

TFF, thank god I was not taking a sip of coffee when I read it

I like carrying my grandfather's rifle and other older guns as do many other folks for the reasons I mentioned. Some of mine are old, the rest are modern.

Just wondering ..... How's those space guns treatin' you?

To a 'Galaxy Far Far Away"!

Haven't you noticed before? ?

I sometimes use 220's in my 06 and I've got no sane way to justify it except to say that I like the way they look and there is no reason not to.

We may need to send him back to "between flippant and glib" again, for an overhaul?

Sometimes I explore the edge of the envelope with no idea why or where it's going. Hornady makes some HBWC bullets for different calibers, the one I played with was for the .38 Special. The flat nose wasn't flat enough so I loaded them backwards over 3 gr of Bullseye.

They will decapitate a 4' barracuda and that makes recovery of hooks and stuff a lot more congenial undertaking than if it's still kickin'. Smoker Kingfish be the same. For you mountain dwellers what never fished the briny deep, them phoucers got some seriously sharp choppers. In vast abundance. And any excuse to shoot something is a good thing.

Can't compare it to a spitzer though, so take it for what it's worth. Or even a RN. I never shot a RN from that gun.

Inverted RN bullets rock.

I truly hope this clarifies the discussion.

Old guns, new bullets.

What range?

Yep, sure looks more dead than if killed with a RN cup-and-core.

DD:

Careful. Next thing you know some will be flipping a perfectly good partition and expecting to take the heads off the beeeeeeg toothy Bears. People have been known to jump to erroneous conclusions more than once around here.

SH:

You have to occasionally think about those RN, as in Roman Nose, Blacktails come hunting season. Always miss your pics of them when you were living up there. They is one cool looking Deer.

I went back to a Horn.Interloc 170 gr. RN for my 8 Mauser after extracting a very nice mushroom from a Buck that dropped in his tracks after going thru a 2.5" maple sapling. I thought that was pretty impressive.

So they are "brush busters" afterall. ......... I knew it!

Wellll, That was about 3 yrs. ago and The bullet is on the window sill up @ camp & the sapling was still on the end of Coon Ridge last Turkey season. The RN killed the Buck but the tree is still going strong.

I've shot a bunch of whitetails with the round nose. 30/06 and 308. Speer,Hornady,or Remington RN Core Lokt. All were 180gr.

All this talk of rn bullets!! We went to Rawlins yesterday, and I had some time to kill while the wife shopped.. Spotted a box of 7mm Horn. 154 RN.. Bought 'em will load them in the little 7mm-08 for whitetails.. Just remembered before I retired I loaded a bunch of 220 and 170 Horn. RN for my old 06, stashed them somewhere but not sure where.. Never really used them as the 06 has a B & L mount and it is a bugger to change the point of aim...

25 yards

How can that be? Everybody knows that real hunters start at 600 and move back from there.....

Thanks

I've done much the same with a S&w 640 and 38 Spl wadcutters on Northern Pike. I had one a smidge over 38" on a fly rod that was introduced to the experience. A little splash but it made life a little easier getting the bugger in the canoe.

What kind of peep you running on that? I have a '24 vintage 250-3000 quarter turn take down wearing a Williams peep of the same year. I'm always looking for a reasonable priced 300 for beating the brush. My 250 is in such good condition and being my grandfathers I'm reluctant to take it out and mark it up. I should just use the damn thing but I have enough hunting rifles and I don't really have any need or justification. Not to mention I would feel chitty if I [bleep] it up.

I have found a good stash of 170gr Hornady RN's for the 8mm. Looking at the ranges here I can get here in west washington jungle, I will switch to these for deer. Already have a load using IMR 3031 that chugs along at 2500 fps.