It's certainly been bedded. If I remember the reports correctly a couple others in 308 were a few ounces heavier. Looking forward to the range report. Congrats, I bet it's a shooter.
I've run a file over a few spots on the stock.. They are bedded to the individual barrel/action, and numbered. The sharpie touch-up corresponds to the ink smeared on the barrel and action..
All in all, you have to say, the inletting looks like a bag of smashed azzholes.
120 ttsx's, 140 AB's, varget and IMR4350 are next.. Going to need some good results.
Look on the bright side; Melvin will make it a FULA for $650. New barrel with your choice of chambering, new bedding and a new paint job on the stock. For a tad more he'll install the NULA trigger and coat the action.
Look on the bright side; Melvin will make it a FULA for $650. New barrel with your choice of chambering, new bedding and a new paint job on the stock. For a tad more he'll install the NULA trigger and coat the action.
If its any consolation, the two Forbe clones I had from Maine looked the same way. Its as if the action literally pulls some of the bedding material away when they are separated. Even though they both shot very well, it looked sloppy. ditto on the bolt travel. I hope they aren't sacrificing quality to satisfy consumer demand.
the bedding works ...........my nula rifles are better looking than that one but they are not what you guys are use to when looking at a mcmillan stock bedded with all the cnc cuts to it
I have rifles bedded by Melvin and Mark Bansner and both lack appeal but shoot lights out
Kinda speechless on the inletting. Melvin needs to see those pics, I'm sure that's not something he would want crawling out of the factory.
I've seen a few Forbes, and they all looked like that.
It's a factory rifle, that happens to have, quite possibly, the best made fiberglass stock on the market (though I'm personally not a fan of the shape).
Like any factory rifle, I think a certain amount of "cleaning up" should be expected.
If all the ills of this rifle were addressed at the factory, the price point would most certainly rise.
Were I to own one, I'd rather just clean it up myself than pay for it.
I've run a file over a few spots on the stock.. They are bedded to the individual barrel/action, and numbered. The sharpie touch-up corresponds to the ink smeared on the barrel and action..
All in all, you have to say, the inletting looks like a bag of smashed azzholes.
120 ttsx's, 140 AB's, varget and IMR4350 are next.. Going to need some good results.
Kinda speechless on the inletting. Melvin needs to see those pics, I'm sure that's not something he would want crawling out of the factory.
I've seen a few Forbes, and they all looked like that.
It's a factory rifle, that happens to have, quite possibly, the best made fiberglass stock on the market (though I'm personally not a fan of the shape).
Like any factory rifle, I think a certain amount of "cleaning up" should be expected.
If all the ills of this rifle were addressed at the factory, the price point would most certainly rise.
Were I to own one, I'd rather just clean it up myself than pay for it.
Weren't the 20b's 'sposed to be closer to 4 3/4lbs?
Rough @ssed stock, but it will likely bughole....
I haven't seen a Forbes yet that made weight. They seem like nice rifles, but there's no excuse for advertising a weight (especially in a flyweight rifle) that misses the mark as badly as Forbes does.
Weren't the 20b's 'sposed to be closer to 4 3/4lbs?
Rough @ssed stock, but it will likely bughole....
I haven't seen a Forbes yet that made weight. They seem like nice rifles, but there's no excuse for advertising a weight (especially in a flyweight rifle) that misses the mark as badly as Forbes does.
Weren't the 20b's 'sposed to be closer to 4 3/4lbs?
Rough @ssed stock, but it will likely bughole....
I haven't seen a Forbes yet that made weight. They seem like nice rifles, but there's no excuse for advertising a weight (especially in a flyweight rifle) that misses the mark as badly as Forbes does.
Maybe that was the weight before bedding.
Dunno. Forbes claimed the weights, so I assumed that was for the finished product, which would include the bedding being done at the factory. I don't have any issue with the actual weight of Forbes rifles, but I take exception to the claims being so much lighter (relatively speaking, of course).
Kinda speechless on the inletting. Melvin needs to see those pics, I'm sure that's not something he would want crawling out of the factory.
I've seen a few Forbes, and they all looked like that.
It's a factory rifle, that happens to have, quite possibly, the best made fiberglass stock on the market (though I'm personally not a fan of the shape).
Like any factory rifle, I think a certain amount of "cleaning up" should be expected.
If all the ills of this rifle were addressed at the factory, the price point would most certainly rise.
Were I to own one, I'd rather just clean it up myself than pay for it.
Brad when you say best do you mean strongest?
Yes, when I said "best made" I meant strongest, not best shaped, etc.
As to the nitpicking about the stock's shortcomings, obviously the Kimber MT stock comes to the owner in far prettier shape... BUT the stocks are made, bedded, finished and painted in Costa Rica in order to maintain the Kimbers price point. The Forbes isn't made in Costa Rica, and US wages being what they are, it's not surprising the stock lacks the attention to detail the Kimber has.
Looks like it was bedded by a forum member, based on some of the threads I've seen
Undoubtedly Rancho is a handy dude and can "polish the turd" (said tongue in cheek).
The Forbes isn't my cup of tea in any way, but it's obviously a nice rifle!
Weren't the 20b's 'sposed to be closer to 4 3/4lbs?
Rough @ssed stock, but it will likely bughole....
I haven't seen a Forbes yet that made weight. They seem like nice rifles, but there's no excuse for advertising a weight (especially in a flyweight rifle) that misses the mark as badly as Forbes does.
Maybe that was the weight before bedding.
Dunno. Forbes claimed the weights, so I assumed that was for the finished product, which would include the bedding being done at the factory. I don't have any issue with the actual weight of Forbes rifles, but I take exception to the claims being so much lighter (relatively speaking, of course).
I agree completely about the weight. I was attempting a joke about the bedding.
I think I'd brush on some Devcon with an acid brush to smooth things out in the mag well etc, and cycle the bolt a few hundred times while watching TV, and then hit the range.
The bedding in my 4 NULA's is perfect as smooth as glass. the actions tend to be a bit gritty at first. They are tight fitting and anodized, so they take a little while and a few rounds to settle in. They do really smooth out especially the long actions. A little moly lube on the cocking cam is never a bad idea.
Any shiny spots on the brass (either at the shoulder or towards the base of the case body) which would indicate the case was not sized quite enough for the chamber? I had issues with this on my ULA 270 with brass set back less than resizer touching shellholder.
Mine did the same thing. Tried several brands of brass, same issue.
Called Rick and he sent me a new extractor. I put it in and it functioned perfectly. You'd think that would be something they'd check...
FWIW--I called Melvin about potentially upgrading the rifle and told him about the extractor issue. He wasn't happy and then he asked about the new trigger. I told him I preferred the old (his) design and he said he'd had several calls about the triggers...didn't sound happy about that either.
Any shiny spots on the brass (either at the shoulder or towards the base of the case body) which would indicate the case was not sized quite enough for the chamber? I had issues with this on my ULA 270 with brass set back less than resizer touching shellholder.
Nothing funky looking with the brass - no gouges or rubs..
Some say don't worry about the bedding...I say bullshit, if you wanted crap you would have intentionally bought crap...Some wonder why American business suffer...Generally it is because someone don't care or have pride in their product...This one seems to fit that mold...
Agreed, bean counters rule and ruin things, at the end of the day, Melvin's reputation is on the line, if anything for his NULA, as this Forbes line has his name on it.....I would not have allowed this if I were him. Sorry, not a slam, just a fact.
I would be at the plant assembling these, checking all aspects of quality, inc. test firing for feeding/extraction/ejection issues, as well as accuracy. Accuracy is only ONE dimension....
Sorry you're having trouble. I think I would send someone in charge a link to this thread. It has over 1800 views which is 1800 potential customers. It shouldn't be that hard to make sure bedding looks better than that and that the rifle will actually function especially considering the wait time and volume they are producing. I mean what's going on over there. Did they hire two illegals to build rifles and call it a company?
I'm sure in the end you will have things to your satisfaction but a little special attention might help you get a rifle that someone at least checked before it left the factory.
Any shiny spots on the brass (either at the shoulder or towards the base of the case body) which would indicate the case was not sized quite enough for the chamber? I had issues with this on my ULA 270 with brass set back less than resizer touching shellholder.
Nothing funky looking with the brass - no gouges or rubs..
With the foam exposed like that, I would be afraid of water getting inside the stock. Not good. Not good at all. I'm almost afraid of taking apart my 24B. Afraid of what I'll find.
Some say don't worry about the bedding...I say bullshit, if you wanted crap you would have intentionally bought crap...Some wonder why American business suffer...Generally it is because someone don't care or have pride in their product...This one seems to fit that mold...
I've worked in the manufacturing environment before, and have found that if you let one part of your product stream lag in quality, all others parts will quickly start sinking in quality, too.
my nula had an issue with extraction Melvin said that the brass being made today was horrible when setting the extractors up to sammi dimensions I wouldn't be so quick to blame the rifle.
and the bedding wont win any contest as far as looks but it does work
The were a couple burrs on the factory extractor in my 20b. The other thing I noticed was the spring was very weak. The extractor would push down easily, instead of snapping over the rim of the case. The new extractor was burr free and the spring was much tighter.
Rancho's bedding looks much worse than than the rifle I had. I also owned a 24b in 270 late last summer. The bedding in that rifle was almost perfect IIRC. The metal finish on the early 24b was smoother than the finish on the 20b as well.
This is really hard to read. Forbes or NULA, Melvin won't be happy. This was his attempt to get a less expensive rifle out there in a mass production style price point. I'd guess there is a lot of backorders to fill and quality control has suffered.
my nula had an issue with extraction Melvin said that the brass being made today was horrible when setting the extractors up to sammi dimensions I wouldn't be so quick to blame the rifle.
and the bedding wont win any contest as far as looks but it does work
I would'nt blame Melvin either, but alot of rifles use this type of extractor with good sucess despite the brass used in them, this is a rifle that shouldn't have made it past quality control!
Is the front pillar curved to match the action, or is it flat? Hard to tell from the picture.
If it is flat, there is no way that action is touching any bedding material. In the picture it actually looks like the pillar was added after bedding was done and then more bedding added to make it look nice and flush. Notice how the material around the pillar is very smooth looking instead of having the parkerized texture of the action. Then look at the bedding up near the show line of the stock and notice how the texture looks. Big difference.
P.S. - will not eject fired brass either, when fed from magazine, or by hand.
Another thread going on about the necessity of proper bedding probably being the cause of so-so grouping in a Montana. Yet some here say they would bet this one will shoot great? What makes them think that?
Obviously with the failure to extract it wasn't even function tested. Couldn't cost all that much and would have saved money and bad publicity.
I'm with Bob.
Lot of things I'm glad they don't make them like they used to. I'm beginning to question if rifles are one of them.
P.S. - will not eject fired brass either, when fed from magazine, or by hand.
Another thread going on about the necessity of proper bedding probably be the cause of so-so grouping in a Montana. Yet some here say they would bet this one will shoot great? What makes them think that?
Obviously with the failure to extract it wasn't even function tested. Couldn't cost all that much and would have saved money and bad publicity.
I'm with Bob.
Lot of things I'm glad they don't make them like they used to. I'm beginning to question if rifles are one of them.
Harry, The bedding under the front of the action and the tang look pretty good. The crap bedding is around the trigger area. RL said the lug and full length under the barrel were good.
That's why I thought it would shoot. Just my $.02 to answer your question.
The extraction issue is unacceptable...especially since Forbes has been contacted about the issue with other rifles. Red flags should be sent to QC to identify potential issues.
I believe you know what you are talking about and not directed at you in particular. However, I looked at your work on the Kimber and it puts that particular Forbes example to shame. It may and since you know your stuff probably will work.
Perhaps a bad example of one or only a few. My thoughts still are that someone fumbled re the overall quality expectations which goes beyond function in this particular example.
With that tiny extractor, I would think that would be an area they should always pay particular attention to.
Having to try different brass is preposterous... definitely a problem there, and it certainly sounds like the spring/extractor is a culprit... well, that and poor QC all the way round.
New products to market usually have some issues... but this ought not be. It's a fairly simple mechanism and the father (NULA) has been around for a couple decades.
Let us say it does shoot for now. However, if that didn't take pride in the entirety of their work, how long will it continue to do so. Like Redhead said, what about water getting into the exposed foam and what adverse effects it may have down the road? Something I never thought of until he mentioned it.
One thing that concerns me about the bedding -- what's up with the mag well? It looks like something was stuck. Why the hole in the bottom? It look like some of the stock popped out with the action...especially around the trigger inlet.
Let us say it does shoot for now. However, if that didn't take pride in the entirety of the their work, how long will it continue to do so. Like Redhead said, what about water getting into the exposed foam and what adverse effects it may have down the road? Something I never thought of until he mentioned it.
Well, a worse thing that happens with a Rem 700 and its clones like the NULA/Forbes, and something I've seen, is water running down into the safety cutout, into the trigger, and freezing... something you don't see happen on an old-school M70 or Mauser.
M700's were designed for cheap, efficient manufacture, nothing else.
all my rifles have the exposed foam I am sure if it was an issue it would have showed its self in the last 30 years of Melvin building them...........
these are production rifles guys and the price reflects it compared to the nula models I am sure they don't take the time to make them perfect in appearance and everything has its problems but the way it is handled makes the difference to me
Let us say it does shoot for now. However, if that didn't take pride in the entirety of the their work, how long will it continue to do so. Like Redhead said, what about water getting into the exposed foam and what adverse effects it may have down the road? Something I never thought of until he mentioned it.
Well, a worse thing that happens with a Rem 700 and its clones like the NULA/Forbes, and something I've seen, is water running down into the safety cutout, into the trigger, and freezing... something you don't see happen on an old-school M70 or Mauser.
M700's were designed for cheap, efficient manufacture, nothing else.
Now doubt. My Nula came back from a wet Ak trip in Sept and hung around the house and was shot until Deer season here in December. Came home one night after hunting and closed the bolt on an empty chamber and the hammer fell. Worked the bolt and let it off safe and the hammer dropped. Put it up and took it to Melvin. Then entire trigger mechanism was a bunch of rust. Really like Nula and probably the Forbes, but hate the entire trigger set up.
One thing that concerns me about the bedding -- what's up with the mag well? It looks like something was stuck. Why the hole in the bottom? It look like some of the stock popped out with the action...especially around the trigger inlet.
Hole is front trigger guard screw hole. No imbed, just punched through the stock.
I agree there might be some issues with the trigger group but wouldn't flushing it out with lighter fluid after the wet trip have prevented the problem
I agree there might be some issues with the trigger group but wouldn't flushing it out with lighter fluid after the wet trip have prevented the problem
Perhaps it would have and something I pay attention to now. Problem is I was used to Model 70's and their for the most part rock solid durability. They have gotten wet and the safety started to be hard to move, but they always remained safe. A little oil and working them back and forth and they were good to go. Have had a couple that hadn't been out of the stock in years of use in what the weather thru at them and the triggers never rusted up.
The Timney on the Nula's has a couple little springs that had rust grow on them like a chia pet. Not sure if lighter fluid would have eliminated the issue completely.
Really like the Nula, but hate the trigger/safety system, and if there was a different option I would jump on it.
The other thing that was bothersome on two Forbes was that there were different hex sizes to the front and rear action screws. It wouldn't have taken much to find two of the same size. As it is or was back last year, you needed to didn't hex wrenches to take the action out.
Speaking of brass, I bet I can grab a Winchester, Tikka, Weatherby/Howa, Ruger and ALL will feed all major ammo fine.
There are some issues going on........
I had a local gunsmith long ago when I was in college tell me my 10/22 was misfiring b/c of ammo, and to use Remington, well perhaps they use softer brass, but that was NOT the issue, it was a bushing and recoil spring assembly that needed replacing. All he did was clean it.....and it continued it's problem till Ruger sent me the new part which I installed.
ANY decent firearm should function/feed/fire/extract/eject most all decent made SAAMI spec ammo, IME.
And I caught major flack for concern over Shaw barrel quality...
I hope the owners get a properly working rifle and their money's worth. The platform looks to hold promise, but will only do so if it delivers, and quality control will determine.
Perhaps one of the Smiths will chime in on if I am right or wrong.
However, I'm thinking that little extractor doesn't have many teeth to bite down on any case. It will work, but it needs to be done right if it is going to work with all.
With that tiny extractor, I would think that would be an area they should always pay particular attention to.
And maybe a hint to those that say that CRF ala Mauser 98 is meaningless.
No, I am not saying it is absolutely required. Just that it is a better design.
It's proper fitting of parts as well, never mind which particular design. I've come across a Ruger Hawkeye, big claw extractor and all, which failed to extract cases that certainly were not stuck.
Sorry to hear all of this. Hopefully this is an isolated incident, particularly the extraction problem and they can resolve it for you (which they should w/o question)!
WRT the stocks and bedding issues, I was under the impression that Melvin was supplying all of the stocks for the rifles, at least originally. Does anyone know if this is still the case? Perhaps that changed w/ the introduction of the M20. I am assuming the bedding, finish work, etc. is being done at the plant in Maine. My friend bought one of the early (2012) M24's in 30-06 and it came with no sling studs. Trying to help him out, I called Melvin who seemed a little disgusted that it was sent out that way, but did send him a new set with instructions on how to install them properly.
I have a 1986 ULA 7mm-08 and several CLR's (a couple "improved" by Melvin). I have never had any issues with the stocks or extraction problems, including magnum handloads. My 7mm-08 does seem to get pretty high velocities w/ factory 139gr Hornady Light Magnum loads (3050fps with 22"" barrel) which I thought maybe had something to do with the way it was chambered??? Never have had any extraction problems however.
Anyone else with ULA's, CLR's, or the Forbes 24's have extraction issues??? Once again, hopefully an isolated incident that can be quickly remedied.
Wish they'd scrap the cosmetic bolt fluting though... kind of like too much make-up on a beautiful girl. Melvin's "ladies" have proven that it is not really need to get the job done effectively.
Having an early long action, I would say the bolt was rough but after cycling it a�couple hundred times it is smooth as any rifle I have. I have been a little disappointed in the accuracy as we have only had a couple moa groups out of it. Still working on finding the right load for it.
you guys crack me up I guess nothing ever gets past quality control these days ..........you dont even know what the issue is yet ......everything built can and will have issues thats why they offer a warranty in most cases.......you guys that wont buy a forbes because of this what do you buy? not a remington,winchester,mcmillan stock,ford or chevy automobile I hope.........
The "issue" that bothers me is the fact that Forbes was aware of the situation. I know that for a fact, as I contacted them. I'd also heard of others having the same issue -- that came from one of my conversations with Forbes....not from somebody on the Internet.
My extractor had burs and a weak spring. To their credit, they sent me the parts and I fixed it.
My rifle was a low serial number. After dealing with my issue and being told others had contacted them with the same issue -- they should have gone through every rifle before shipping. These rifles aren't mass produced. They only complete a few on a daily basis.
Let us say it does shoot for now. However, if that didn't take pride in the entirety of the their work, how long will it continue to do so. Like Redhead said, what about water getting into the exposed foam and what adverse effects it may have down the road? Something I never thought of until he mentioned it.
Well, a worse thing that happens with a Rem 700 and its clones like the NULA/Forbes, and something I've seen, is water running down into the safety cutout, into the trigger, and freezing... something you don't see happen on an old-school M70 or Mauser.
M700's were designed for cheap, efficient manufacture, nothing else.
I guess I am lucky, that freezing trigger thing has never happened to me. Although, in all these years I have only hunted in warm weather, sun out.
Let us say it does shoot for now. However, if that didn't take pride in the entirety of the their work, how long will it continue to do so. Like Redhead said, what about water getting into the exposed foam and what adverse effects it may have down the road? Something I never thought of until he mentioned it.
Well, a worse thing that happens with a Rem 700 and its clones like the NULA/Forbes, and something I've seen, is water running down into the safety cutout, into the trigger, and freezing... something you don't see happen on an old-school M70 or Mauser.
M700's were designed for cheap, efficient manufacture, nothing else.
I guess I am lucky, that freezing trigger thing has never happened to me. Although, in all these years I have only hunted in warm weather, sun out.
Steve, saw it in the mountains when light rain turned to snow/cold... trigger frozen-up solid. The safety slot in the M700 design is a water channel. Obviously it takes the "just right" conditions for a serious problem...
so what is the problem with the extraction guys ? brass issue/spring issue/extractor issue/installed incorrectly what is it ?
if their is an issue with triggers freezing up with proper care then why isnt their an issue with others of the design and why havent we heard more on this issue with nula rifles in production for more than 30 years ......sure there is the occasional problem but not a consistent one that i have heard of
everybody complaining about the bedding yeah it is rough but does it work .........anybody ever look at the bedding on a ks model remington in a brown precision stock the one i had wasnt much better and sold for more.........
a sleep at the wheel no just live in the real world where everything isnt perfect and 100% satisfaction doesnt happen everytime.......
things happen see how they are handled and then make a decision on how a company takes care of you........
I am curious about a Forbes 24 in 270 Win. but after reading this I am happy with my Weatherby Mark V ULW 30-06 No Problems with it at all. I have my Son in Law hounding me for the WBY ULW 30-06 and I have always wanted to try a Nula 270 Win. but my Poor Health and Medical Bills have prevented me from getting a Nula because of $$. But with the coming of the Forbes I now could try to finally get one. Now a Used WBY ULW 270 Win. is looking good. AMRA
Gene I understand not everything we buy is perfect, but SAS has posted that he informed Forbes of some of the same issues and their still shipping rifles out with the same problems, in my book Forbes is not off to a good start on taking care of it's customers, especially with a product blueprint that has been around a while!
so what is the problem with the extraction guys ? brass issue/spring issue/extractor issue/installed incorrectly what is it ?
if their is an issue with triggers freezing up with proper care then why isnt their an issue with others of the design and why havent we heard more on this issue with nula rifles in production for more than 30 years ......sure there is the occasional problem but not a consistent one that i have heard of
everybody complaining about the bedding yeah it is rough but does it work .........anybody ever look at the bedding on a ks model remington in a brown precision stock the one i had wasnt much better and sold for more.........
a sleep at the wheel no just live in the real world where everything isnt perfect and 100% satisfaction doesnt happen everytime.......
things happen see how they are handled and then make a decision on how a company takes care of you........
You should really stop making excuses for this turd of a rifle.
Let us say it does shoot for now. However, if that didn't take pride in the entirety of the their work, how long will it continue to do so. Like Redhead said, what about water getting into the exposed foam and what adverse effects it may have down the road? Something I never thought of until he mentioned it.
Well, a worse thing that happens with a Rem 700 and its clones like the NULA/Forbes, and something I've seen, is water running down into the safety cutout, into the trigger, and freezing... something you don't see happen on an old-school M70 or Mauser.
M700's were designed for cheap, efficient manufacture, nothing else.
I guess I am lucky, that freezing trigger thing has never happened to me. Although, in all these years I have only hunted in warm weather, sun out.
Steve, saw it in the mountains when light rain turned to snow/cold... trigger frozen-up solid. The safety slot in the M700 design is a water channel. Obviously it takes the "just right" conditions for a serious problem...
Returning to the regularly scheduled program...
Operative words, "just right". It has never happened to me, and I have hunted those pesky whitetails here in the midwest in rain and snow. Also have hunted in the rain and snow out west.As far as the regularly scheduled program, I didn't change the channel.
"M700's were designed for cheap, efficient manufacture, nothing else" "something you don't see happen on an old-school M70 or Mauser."
I figured I would be a bit of a guinea pig with this rifle, and for the record, am still excited about the 20B. And I am not angry, just a little leery of what's going on.
Obviously, it's not ejecting, and I think I know why after the earlier post. This shouldn't have cleared QC..
Inletting is obviously sloppy, and as I pointed out before, the trigger group hard against the side of it's mortise is a rookie mistake. No threaded insert embedded for the TG screw is either a mistake, or a very distressing shortcut.
I received a very official apology by email this morning by the director of sales/marketing, and will be receiving a return shipping tag shortly. He is pledging to make this right, and I'm betting they do.
I had a Forbes 24B 30-06 and had to send it back the bolt was binding I called them and Rick told me the gun would get smoother. I sent it back anyway and they fixed after it sat for 4 weeks and several follow up calls. I will say it did shoot some great groups with 180 ballistic tips and RL17. The trigger sucked compared to my Tikka's sold the Forbes kept the Tikka.
I figured I would be a bit of a guinea pig with this rifle, and for the record, am still excited about the 20B. And I am not angry, just a little leery of what's going on.
Obviously, it's not ejecting, and I think I know why after the earlier post. This shouldn't have cleared QC..
Inletting is obviously sloppy, and as I pointed out before, the trigger group hard against the side of it's mortise is a rookie mistake. No threaded insert embedded for the TG screw is either a mistake, or a very distressing shortcut.
I received a very official apology by email this morning by the director of sales/marketing, and will be receiving a return shipping tag shortly. He is pledging to make this right, and I'm betting they do.
If your lucky...maybe Melvin fixes all the quality control returns!
You would think, being a fledgling company and selling a product being bought by a more discriminating customer quality control would be extremely high on the list. Joe hunter buying a package Savage may never even remove the stock. Not so for anyone looney enough to be spending the bucks on Forbes.
I figured I would be a bit of a guinea pig with this rifle, and for the record, am still excited about the 20B. And I am not angry, just a little leery of what's going on.
Obviously, it's not ejecting, and I think I know why after the earlier post. This shouldn't have cleared QC..
Inletting is obviously sloppy, and as I pointed out before, the trigger group hard against the side of it's mortise is a rookie mistake. No threaded insert embedded for the TG screw is either a mistake, or a very distressing shortcut.
I received a very official apology by email this morning by the director of sales/marketing, and will be receiving a return shipping tag shortly. He is pledging to make this right, and I'm betting they do.
Had similar issues with my first 24B, before my first range trip I took it apart and adjusted the trigger. After putting it back together the shells would not feed smoothly from the mag (didn�t try it before).
Send it back to Forbes and I also mentioned the paint was not perfect several places along the barrel to my eye. They called me with an apology; the gunsmith at Forbes felt that the stock was not allowed to dry completely before it was assembled with wet paint sticking to the barrel. Later the paint came off the stock when I took it apart to clean/adjust. They repainted the stock, adjusted the mag. I am very happy with the results; it shoots great, feeds perfectly and looks better than new
Had they taken a little more time when it was built these errors would not have happened BUT when you�re orders are backed up 18 months production gets rushed mistakes are made...
Good to hear they are taking care of it & Old Willys experience as well. I received the call today that my 24B in 280 Rem is finally ready & will be shipping out this week. Hopefully QC is tightened up.
Forbes will take care of it -- they're good people. Everybody makes mistakes. It's how you deal with them that's important. They'll get Rancho up and running!
I have been monitoring this thread with great interest, as I too have experienced a "Lemon" model 24B. Mine came in the flavor of a .270 SS barrel. I ordered this rifle back in December of 2013. I wanted the green stock and SS barrel and anxiously awaited its arrival. Besides a Benelli SBEII, this is the most money I have spent on a gun-period. I just got a hankering for a lightweight bolt action rifle to tote in the mountains of Virginia, and while an NULA would have certainly been nice, my wallet would simply not allow such a purchase. Nevertheless, after doing extensive reading/research I chose what I thought to be the next best thing....the "Blue-Collared" working man's NULA- Forbes 24B. The rifle arrived at my FFL in late March, and I felt like a kid on Christmas morning as a went to pick it up. I checked the rifle for initial fit and function. Although the action was initially very, very rough, it did "function" minus ammo. I had the guys at the gun shop adjust a miserable 4 3/4lb trigger down to a very nice 3 1/4lb pull before departing the shop. Overall the rifles finish and cosmetics were very acceptable, with a couple of very, very minor paint imperfections. Alas nothing the first day at the range or in the woods would not surely erase from my memory. After arriving home, I proceeded to give the weapon a thorough cleaning, as I have done with every new weapon I have acquired for the last 40 years. The bore was exceptionally "Gunky" and I went through approximately 40 Pro-Shot patches and Shooters Choice solvent to get it clean. I then greased the lugs and proceeded to work the Gritty Bolt back and forth (Never pulling the trigger) through a couple of TV shows. The action/bolt actually loosened up considerably after this procedure. After thoroughly cleaning all other aspects of the rifle, I proceeded to mount a new Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10x44 in the supplied Talley rings. Once this was accomplished, again much like a kid....I sat and stared at my new "GO-TOO" rifle I had wanted for so long. While I planned to load 130 BT over some configuration of 4831SC and Norma brass, I realized I had NO .270 ammo in the house for a regimented barrel break-in. So the next day I went to the local Wally-World and you guessed it, picked up a box a trusty Blue-Box Federal 130 Soft Points. The next day prior to departing for the range, I figured I would check TRUE function with live ammo. Here is the point my heart sank! This rifle would not feed properly, nor would it eject properly. On one occasion it would pick up a round from the blind magazine and fail to chamber, the next time it would pick up a round and chamber but fail to extract, the next time it would work for one round, but the next round would fail to chamber! There was NO rhyme or reason for what it would do next! The new factory loaded ammo's brass suffered EXTENSIVE scratching, above and beyond anything I have ever experienced with ANY push-feed rifle. Needless to say I was heartbroken. While I realize there are certainly far worse problems in the world we live, the fact this Brand Spankin' New Unfired rifle was exhibiting such behavior was unbelievable to me. The next day I took the rifle to work with me and had two separate Weapons Armorers examine the rifle. Each said..."Get Your Money Back...NOW!" They also were completely dismayed at the feed/function of this new rifle. At this point I telephoned Forbes rifles and spoke with Rick Campbell, the Sales Manager. I had been dealing directly with Rick when placing my order, so I felt best dealing with him at this juncture. Needless to say he was very apologetic and assured me they would make it right. I will say without hesitation Mr. Campbell has been a true professional throughout my ordering/payment/shipment, and he DID NOT disappoint me at this point of the ordeal. He provided me a shipping "Code" and advised me to return the rifle for necessary repairs. He further explained the extractor, and magazine box would be replaced as a starting point. After sleeping on this, the next day I telephoned Mr. Campbell and advised him of my desire to have a Full-Replacement of the weapon. After all I had not fired a single round through the rifle, and it was still brand new. I reasoned that if this were a new car and the salesman pulled it off the showroom floor and it was smoking and leaking oil, "Fixing-It" would not be an option, as a Full Replacement would ONLY suffice. Mr. Campbell did not hesitate on my request. He did advise me it would be Mid-Summer before they ran SS .270's again, so my replacement would be delayed nearly 4 months. I advised him, since it was March, and I typically like to do initial load development in cooler weather this would be acceptable to me. Needless to say, I pointed out the ideal of the cost of this weapon versus a $350 Ruger American, and how as the consumer I expected MUCH, MUCH more for my hard earned money. Hezz, fail to function is a Basic regardless of the weapons cost. Other than Mr. Campbell's customer service....EVERY part of this purchase has been a true Nightmare! I went so far as to ask him to personally test and Shoot the next rifle before shipment to me! He assured me he would do the same by taking the rifle to his home and test firing it, as they do not have a range facility at the manufacturing plant. I am willing to give Forbes another chance to provide me a fully functioning.......much better than average accuracy rifle....for my much higher than average cost incurred. Don't ask me why, but I truly believe Mr. Campbell and Forbes rifles will deliver! As a footnote......while I know nothing about marketing/production/or sustaining a business...based on some of the feedback I have read......FORBES RIFLES BETTER GET A HANDLE ON THEIR QUALITY CONTROL, and start delivering the quality of weapon they have promised to the consumer.....because in reality NO LEVEL of Customer Service will be able to overcome an Inept/Faulty product. Furthermore, from all that I have read about Mr. Melvin Forbes and his attention to detail...I suspect incidents like these Do-Not sit kindly with him in the least!
BobinNH, Believe me, I fought that very urge to say the least. I had to try to make the Sako Finnlight a distant memory. Hopefully, in the end I will receive the quality and performance I originally paid for. By the way, I forgot to mention in the previous post.......Forbes Management might be well served by placing a phone call to COLT Management, and assessing the demise of the ill-conceived Colt Light Rifle, as this was the original offering mirroring the NULA platform. Contrary to popular belief...unless Quality Control improves...History Can and Will Repeat Itself!
What's amazing is that they know they are sending out rifles with problems and continue to do so....
This.
I have been planning to order a Forbes when the all stainless versions hit the market, but I need to see much tighter quality control before taking the plunge. I don't question Forbes making things right when problems arise. I'm simply not willing to go through the hassles when so many other options are available.
I had mine fixed and sold at a loss. st8tman ask for your money back from Forbes there are other lightweight guns that will give you everything you need right out of the box. Forget about the gun of a lifetime from Forbes.
To keep shipping faulty rifles is going to be the death of this product. From a business standpoint, you will go broke with time and money to do the re-work required to repair every one sold. This will not end well if they do not correct this huge blunder, IMHO.
Nice Rem Scott, is that a 2.5-8? OP, regarding that SAUM you sold, it looks like you had a winner.....that was a nice stick as well. Sorry for your troubles.
Some here have far more patience than I do, when you lay down a sizable chunk of hard earned $$$.......others mirror my thoughts.
Surely something is awry when Nula and ULA had such a reputation, and even the CLR's seemed to function fine......and now this......I digress.
What's amazing is that they know they are sending out rifles with problems and continue to do so....
This.
I'd be leery of their product until they slow down and implement better QC methods that most of us would consider to be "basic". There's no reason for a $1k+ bolt gun to not feed/function when it arrives. For that kind of price, somebody should be spending 10 minutes giving each rifle a good once-over, checking out fit/finish and functioning before it goes in the box.
Sad, isn't it? Even accounting for overhead and such, a good inspector could be had for $100/hr. Looking at 5-6 rifles an hour should only contribute $20 or so to the cost of a rifle. Seems well worth it to me if it keeps threads like this from popping up.
Sad, isn't it? Even accounting for overhead and such, a good inspector could be had for $100/hr. Looking at 5-6 rifles an hour should only contribute $20 or so to the cost of a rifle. Seems well worth it to me if it keeps threads like this from popping up.
I could do a much better job than what is being done now at a lot less than $100/hr.
I bet you'll be satisfied in the end but you shouldn't have had this experience to begin with. I'm on your side. Excellent customer service would entail a manager hand picking you a new rifle, personally function and accuracy testing it and sending it to you with a free set of mounts, gift certificate or such as a gesture of compensation. "Then" making sure this kind of thing is never released again.
I hesitated to chime in on this thread, but felt I had to after reading it. Recently I ordered a 24B in 270 Win. Got it in short order. Must say that my initial impressions were disappointing. There were areas along the action that the paint never got to. The safety cutout looked like it was done at the society for the blind with a broken dremel tool. As well, the bevel along the right side of the action was very uneven. Finally the trigger - a Timney - had a ton of creep. Then I took the gun apart. Wow. The roughest finish job I have ever imagined seeing. The bottom of the barrel was covered with what Forbes later said was "epoxy filler". Finally, the trigger guard screw was protruding into the mag well.
Does anyone check these things as they leave the factory?
Later that evening I adjust the trigger to lighten it, problem is that it has very little adjustment room as the set screw makes contact with the stock behind the mag well. Nice. Tighten the bolt and put gun back together. Fits now, so I take it apart again to see if I can lighten it a bit more and take the creep out. Gently break the rifle apart and hear a cracking sound. Look at the kitchen table and there are pieces of stock. That thing was as brittle as a potato chip. I am speechless at this point, so I just start to laugh at my bad fortune. I take pictures and email my gun shop and Forbes. Both were very gracious and accommodating, and sent me out a 20B as a replacement.
I chalk it up to bad luck and the fact we all make mistakes.
The replacement arrives the next day. It is every bit as bad as the first, same issues, but in addition this one has a big chunk of epoxy missing from the bedding at the recoil lug. Thankfully, it didn't break, and the trigger had no creep, as one would expect from a Timney. I took pictures of the shoddy workmanship and sent them to my gun dealer. He gave me a full refund no questions asked. Great service from him. You may have noted that I didn't bother sending the email or pictures to Forbes the second time. Why? I can overlook one bad gun. Two? No way in hell. Pure garbage that I will never touch with a ten foot pole. The thing that ticks me off the most is that I sold a mint Finnlight to give Forbes a try. Stupid me.
I have ordered a Kimber Montana 84L to replace this Forbes debacle.
After reading this thread, all I can say is be forewarned. Why buy a gun that costs more, weighs the same, and has a chromoly action? I did, so I could say I had a gun that not many did. Live and learn.
The moral of the story is that even when a good designer passes off production duties to someone else (i.e. Colt and now Titan Machine), don't expect the same as the designer made himself.
sns2, Simply stunning. It's really sad to read these stories. Hope they can get things sorted out and quick!
The only way I would take one now us for free. I suggested to my gun dealer that he stop selling them as he has a spotless reputation. While Forbes LLC was super polite. I consider it covering their ass, as they never bothered to check either if those rifles before they went out the door.
Once again this thread needs to go to both Forbes and Melvin himself. A notation of post number should be made so they can quickly find the posts stating similar or worse experiences. I would like to see the company succeed and someone needs to be terminated. I would do it myself if I was computer savvy enough.
I was beginning to believe I was the "Lone-Ranger" on this debacle, but unfortunately for us consumers this seems to be a ill-conceived trend. Nevertheless in my occupation, we call this a CLUE! Somehow, I still have "Hope" for their second offering to me. I will say publicly....IF they Fail to deliver a product indicative of the $1500 hard earned dollars I spent, I will simply return it...wash my hands of the whole fiasco...and politely Warn any other potential customers of their shortcomings! In reality, we owe this to each other as fellow sportsmen and consumers. I would hope at some point Mr. Forbes would take it upon himself to intervene..after all....it has HIS NAME on it!
I received a order confirmation March 2013 for a stainless steel 7mm-08 and a .308. I understand the all stainless rifles probably will not be available until 2015. Not sure I want to proceed with this order, but at the same time I am starting to think they may not weather this storm.
I received a order confirmation March 2013 for a stainless steel 7mm-08 and a .308. I understand the all stainless rifles probably will not be available until 2015. Not sure I want to proceed with this order, but at the same time I am starting to think they may not weather this storm.
With all the corners their cutting wait times should be getting shorter.....
I received a order confirmation March 2013 for a stainless steel 7mm-08 and a .308. I understand the all stainless rifles probably will not be available until 2015. Not sure I want to proceed with this order, but at the same time I am starting to think they may not weather this storm.
This storm is in a small corner of the world, however if this storm is any indication of the weather overall, they will not.
I hesitated to post anything, and still haven't on my locals sites in respect of my gun dealer, but after I read other people having the same issues, I felt Ihad to.
I never did try and chamber any rounds, however, one action felt like it had sand in it, while the other was not bad.
I would only be interested in hearing from Melvin Forbes at this point. While the sales manager is undoubtedly a prince of a fellow, his company's words are empty at this point.
C'mon, there's GOTTA be oodles of Forbes groupies out there to tell us how this is a 1 in a 100 (or less) occurrence. After all, its a production rifle, right? You should EXPECT to have to "debug" it a bit, RIGHT?
BTW, how is the crown on the barrel?
I wonder if Forbes's customer service yankee azzwipe will offer you a new factory barrel for only $600?
Seeing as how this was to be one of the few left-handed, light weight, production rifles ever offered, I had definite plans for at least one, likely two. When they eventually made it across the border into Canada... I'll wait for a good long while now...
I had two 24B's in 30-06 early in their production run. There were a few flaws in the inletting - as if the material stuck to the action and pulled out. You could see some "coarse cloth" material imbedded in the material. Nothing that a little two part epoxy wouldn't cover up. The accuracy was excellent in both models. I did have an issue with the closed grip which resulted in the back of my middle finger get rapped by the back of the trigger guard. I also thought the safety opening was excessive and a debris and frozen water liability. I posted an extensive review many months ago.
Since then I have renewed my acquaintance with the Tikka brand at less than half the cost. Oh my............no brainer alert!
I do believe Forbes has experienced significant numbers of orders for this "lesser" NULA. Unfortunately there is a definite loss of QC and this will travel faster than a brush fire on a windy day.
There probably is a window of opportunity for Rick to clean this up pronto before it spirals out of control.
C'mon, there's GOTTA be oodles of Forbes groupies out there to tell us how this is a 1 in a 100 (or less) occurrence. After all, its a production rifle, right? You should EXPECT to have to "debug" it a bit, RIGHT?
BTW, how is the crown on the barrel?
I wonder if Forbes's customer service yankee azzwipe will offer you a new factory barrel for only $600?
My experience has not been without issues. The bolt stop wouldn't work properly when received as the bolt would exit the receiver completely during cycling. Titan sent three springs and while they didn't look any different fixed the issue. Yep the bedding could look better but the main issue has been the trigger. It wont adjust down to a level that I am used to achieving with a Timney. I never had any issues adjusting the pre X-Mark Remington triggers and the Timney's are even easier but I think the 3-function capability of the Forbes makes getting an optimal pull difficult. Titan's response was send it to a gunsmith, or send it to Melvyn, or we can put a 2 function trigger all at your cost. That response is no different then you would get from Remington or Winchester so it didn't really bother me. Timney said send it to them and they would do it free of charge. On the other hand here are targets with some 180gr AB's and R17. First bullet and powder combo selected.
They are $1750 in Canada plus tax. IMO, you shouldn't have to do anything to a $1750 rifle except take it to the range and watch it shoot nice, tiny groups.
My experience has not been without issues. The bolt stop wouldn't work properly when received as the bolt would exit the receiver completely during cycling. Titan sent three springs and while they didn't look any different fixed the issue. Yep the bedding could look better but the main issue has been the trigger. It wont adjust down to a level that I am used to achieving with a Timney. I never had any issues adjusting the pre X-Mark Remington triggers and the Timney's are even easier but I think the 3-function capability of the Forbes makes getting an optimal pull difficult. Titan's response was send it to a gunsmith, or send it to Melvyn, or we can put a 2 function trigger all at your cost. That response is no different then you would get from Remington or Winchester so it didn't really bother me. Timney said send it to them and they would do it free of charge. On the other hand here are targets with some 180gr AB's and R17. First bullet and powder combo selected.
If I'd bought a rifle that would shoot like that, I think I'd just spring for a nickel-plated Timney and call it good. I guess it must have been crowned right..... Does it bind on the magazine? Action screws too long?
...I have ordered a Kimber Montana 84L to replace this Forbes debacle.
Is that the 7mm-08 you just got? That really sucks...lucky for me, as I think that was the one I was supposed to get, but declined until my 24b was sorted out.
You are also fortunate to have the option for exchange...my 24B started the repair cycle in January and I expect to see it in June. Having to export/import from Canada isn't the way you want to start out. Rick at Forbes has been very gracious as all have indicated.
If you ordered your Kimber from PR and they sold you that 8400, I'd be giving up on them post haste...they should know better.
If that was the one earmarked for you, then you are lucky you declined.
No, it was not PR. They would never do that. They are a exceptional operation. Best gun dealer one could ever hope for. I cannot speak highly enough about them and the service I have received.
AMEN....sns2...my sentiments exactly! I realize were not talking Dakota, Jarrett, or even Cooper money...but hey we ARE talking quite a few coins more than the "average" bolt action rifle....so logic would stand.....the purchaser would expect quite a bit more with regards to Function/Fit and Performance. Quite frankly had it not been for the courtesy of Rick Campbell I would have thrown in the towel and given up on this weapon. After several extended conversations with Mr. Campbell (About topics far outside the realm of rifles) I am fully convinced he is a very, very decent American. Who am I to say, but in reality some "Heads Need to Roll" in Production! If we all take a deep breath and look at the merits of this debacle...I do believe it is really not all that complicated. (1) Mr. Forbes produces the Time Proven Stocks (+) (2) Mr. Forbes designed/patented the proven ultra lite action (++) (3) The Shaw Barrels have been around for many years-May not be on the same level as some other premium barrels, but have prospered within their own niche nonetheless (+++) (4) Timney Triggers have proven themselves over time (++++) (5) The provided Talley Rings were originally designed by Mr. Forbes and sold to Talley, where they have enjoyed immense success worldwide (+++++) So in reality virtually ALL the components of this weapon have a proven track record- Not to mention Mr. Forbes is assembling/distributing virtually the same weapon; albeit different barrel manufacturer, slight trigger variation/safety, and custom length of pull, stock color choice. But in reality Very, Very, Very similar in core principles. My third-grade education tells me only one thing....ASSEMBLY/QUALITY CONTROL...or as they say in the military arena....ATTENTION TO DETAIL! It's like two people being handed the same ingredients to bake a cake...The first Baker uses his measuring cup, spoons, and follows prescribed timelines, and directions to the ninth degree. His cake turns out just as the recipe said it would. The second Baker says.."The Hell with measuring cups/spoons...haphazardly throws all the shiz together disregards prescribed timelines, and devises his own cooking temperature...gets preoccupied and forgets the oven is ON....His "cake" is burnt to a crisp, and is unrecognizable! Not trying to be funny here just saying if I was in charge of the "Forbes Bakery"...somebody (probably more than one) would be signing up for Obamas latest unemployment handouts! Oh and by the way....Don't let the door hit you in the Azz on your way Out! Just Sayin'
I am landless. Friend has 1800 acres of prime hunting land. He is kind enough to let me shoot stuff there. I buy him a thank you gift each year. I get the better end of the deal. I am bummed the Forbes rifles are apparently not meeting expectations. I have a NULA on order for myself. Never owned one before and hope I like it.
If I'd bought a rifle that would shoot like that, I think I'd just spring for a nickel-plated Timney and call it good. I guess it must have been crowned right..... Does it bind on the magazine? Action screws too long?
Uh-oh!
TAK's gonna pretend to know something about rifles. This should be good.
I am landless. Friend has 1800 acres of prime hunting land. He is kind enough to let me shoot stuff there. I buy him a thank you gift each year. I get the better end of the deal. I am bummed the Forbes rifles are apparently not meeting expectations. I have a NULA on order for myself. Never owned one before and hope I like it.
Sounds like you both have a good friend. Have you considered getting him a Montana?
My SBE 2 has never failed and has not been lovingly cared for. It goes in every couple of years for a complete dismantled cleaning. Other than that, I just wipe it off and put it up. Stellar product.
My SBE 2 has never failed and has not been lovingly cared for. It goes in every couple of years for a complete dismantled cleaning. Other than that, I just wipe it off and put it up. Stellar product.
I'm not bitching because I do think the world of my SBE but I'm taking it in today to the shop I bought it from 14 years ago for a new front sight. It fell out a couple years ago and a toothpick isn't working as well as I hoped. Also when it was 6 months old the eagle grip cap emblem fell off.
How come you take yours to a shop to clean? They are amazingly simple to completely take down and clean. Pop a couple pins and you're there!
The shop puts everything including the mainspring in an ultrasonic cleaner, touches up the gun and washes the fool out of it. Costs 60 bucks. It is a luxury that I have enjoyed. Gun comes back looking new each time.
The shop puts everything including the mainspring in an ultrasonic cleaner, touches up the gun and washes the fool out of it. Costs 60 bucks. It is a luxury that I have enjoyed. Gun comes back looking new each time.
OK, understood.
I enjoy working on my SBE and Montefeltro, for now!
Cut off and glue in a small portion of one of the spray spouts that come on something like a rem-oil can.
Thanks, I actually thought of a tube from a WD40 or similar sprayer while I was at the LGS this morning. Ended up with a back room special (free) magnetic sight from a trade-in. I'll probably loose it the first 30 minutes of brush bustin' in the dark. <grins>
Keep us informed and good luck. Make sure they know everything you are displeased with and exactly what you expect. For instance, personally I would want bedding that looked professional, no matter how well unprofessional preformed.
I am guessing that they will get this resolved. The price of the gun might get slightly more expensive though. Quality control is expensive. If my ordered NULA is as good as I anticipate, I am going to turn around and order another centerfire and the .22. No telling how long Melvin will continue to make rifles with his direct involvement.
This whole thing sucks. Rifles in this price range shouldn't have such shoddy quality and QC, period.
I had some quality issues with my first Forbes from last fall, but these were limited stock aesthetics (Safety cutout was ugly, and there was a visible 1/2 nick in the stock out of the box). However, all of my Forbes shoot well, and the bolts have smoothed out too.
My thoughts are that Forbes needs a customer service department. I'm not sure about now, but when I had issues I had to talk to Rick, who also did Sales and Business Development. He is a nice guy, but he is juggling a lot. I'm not making excuses for them, as Forbes has definite quality and operational issues that need to be addressed.
Once upon a time I had two of the Forbes in 30-06. Never any issues like those mentioned here. I have since sold them and picked up 3 Tikka T3's. In .223, .308 and .270WCF at $635 each and they were exceptional right out of the box. While I still enjoy my pre '64's, the Tikka's are simply a Sako on sale. Good luck out there.
Perhaps the average guy that buys a Forbes rifle doesn't pull it apart and scrutinize the build quality. If the rifle shoots, they dial it in and go hunting... The whole while marveling at the lightness and moa ish accuracy. Kimbers are famous for QC issues and everyone loves them.
Really a surprise that Melvin does not get on here and assure folks that he will correct all written above and that he, quite specifically, is working to get future quality where it should be. Stunning actually.
forbes is aware of the issues they have along with Melvin but I dont think you will see them get involved in these issues on a public forum .........if you have a problem with one of their products call them i am sure it will be addressed
Perhaps the average guy that buys a Forbes rifle doesn't pull it apart and scrutinize the build quality. If the rifle shoots, they dial it in and go hunting... The whole while marveling at the lightness and moa ish accuracy. Kimbers are famous for QC issues and everyone loves them.
Interesting, but I would think that not many average hunters are plunking down $1500 for a rifle like a Forbes.
Even mentioning Kimber and QC issues in the same sentence will get plenty of folks riled up here. IMO the Kimbers are finished much more nicely than the Forbes, but tend to have mechanical issues. These issues came up more in the older Kimbers, and those issues and remedies are both well documented here.
Out of 4 Mod 84's, I eventually got three to shoot and still have a Montana in 243. My 3 Forbes (and 1 CLR) all shoot great, but IMO the Forbes are not finished to the same standard as the Kimber, or even the CLR for that matter.
I hope that Forbes takes care of Prairie Goat quickly, and takes time to Man Up on the quality issues.
My knowledge of Kimber QC issues is dated. As has been mentioned, at one point they had a reputation for some mechanical problems. Perhaps this is a small sample of Forbes rifles that were made on a Monday.
forbes is aware of the issues they have along with Melvin but I dont think you will see them get involved in these issues on a public forum .........if you have a problem with one of their products call them i am sure it will be addressed
I think they better get involved in the public forums. How many hundreds of guys are going to read this thread about a crappy $1500 rifle? Those guys that read this thread are going to tell how many of their buddies?
I wanted to try one but I will keep buy Sako finnlights instead.
forbes is aware of the issues they have along with Melvin but I dont think you will see them get involved in these issues on a public forum .........if you have a problem with one of their products call them i am sure it will be addressed
I think they better get involved in the public forums. How many hundreds of guys are going to read this thread about a crappy $1500 rifle? Those guys that read this thread are going to tell how many of their buddies?
I wanted to try one but I will keep buy Sako finnlights instead.
Dink
I disagree. I can see the pile on now, especially here.
I'm far more interested in reading how rancho makes out and how the company handles the obvious screw up.
forbes is aware of the issues they have along with Melvin but I dont think you will see them get involved in these issues on a public forum .........if you have a problem with one of their products call them i am sure it will be addressed
I think they better get involved in the public forums. How many hundreds of guys are going to read this thread about a crappy $1500 rifle? Those guys that read this thread are going to tell how many of their buddies?
I wanted to try one but I will keep buy Sako finnlights instead.
Dink
I disagree. I can see the pile on now, especially here.
I'm far more interested in reading how rancho makes out and how the company handles the obvious screw up.
Speaking as the only person I know of who has had two successive faulty Forbes rifles, I fully expected to be contacted via pm on this forum. I wasn't. They have lost an opportunity to make things right with people who were willing to risk money on their new company.
Posting publicly is a two-edged sword, but reaching out to customers is not.
They didn't.
The funny thing is I was willing to risk trying a 3rd Forbes, but didn't. The one I had my eye on also had to be returned for failure to feed and bad stock finish issues.
This is not a case of piling on, but it is one of poor workmanship and poor customer service.
Seems to me a business should contact its customers directly via personal email or phone vice through a public forum. The customer can then relate the events events through the forum if they choose. There are far too many forums for companies to spend their time chasing down potential interactions.
Rancho received a rifle with some bedding issues and an issue with failure to extract. In my opinion, he should have received the rifle back by now. Everything should stop and customer service issues should be priority one. He should receive a new stock, a sufficient bedding job and the issue with extraction should he completely resolved. This should be a very quick fix, no excuses.
Forbes (Titan) was watching this thread some time ago. In my opinion, they should have joined in, been apologetic and assured us these issues would be resolved with future production.
I could be wrong -- but the stocks are made by Melvin, not Titan. It would be interesting to know if Forbes receives the stocks fully inletted or that's their baby.
I still have no doubt Forbes will resolve the issues at hand....and I have no doubt it will shoot better out of the box than any Kimber I've ever seen.
Let's hope for Rancho's sake that everything comes back perfect. If not, he should be reimbursed in full -- no questions asked.
The irony in this thread -- Rancho isn't the one crying. He's posted photos and been extremely patient. We've all been overly critical (including me), while Rancho has taken everything in stride...
I would stay out of the fray if I were Forbes Rifle. Hopefully if everything resolves, the guys with the bunk rifles will report that their rifles are fixed and that they are now satisfied. Later some guys or gals get new rifles that meet or exceed their expectations and post their experiences as "raving fans". This is how businesses turn around a tough product launch. I think it will resolve. I was disappointed to hear that some of their guns had quality control issues. I wanted to buy one and try it out. I will wait and anticipate them getting it together. Meanwhile NULA seems the way to go right now.
Speaking as the only person I know of who has had two successive faulty Forbes rifles, I fully expected to be contacted via pm on this forum...
You can't be serious...??? If you contact them at their site or their customer service, I'd expect to hear back, but if you are expecting them to contact you via PM here, and I think that is what you are implying, I'm betting you're going to wait an awful long time. Seriously though, good luck with your rifles. I hope you get the issues squared away.
I'd like to test drive one of these some day, but I'm holding out to see if they get the QC chit together first.
Rancho received a rifle with some bedding issues and an issue with failure to extract. In my opinion, he should have received the rifle back by now. Everything should stop and customer service issues should be priority one. He should receive a new stock, a sufficient bedding job and the issue with extraction should he completely resolved. This should be a very quick fix, no excuses.
Forbes (Titan) was watching this thread some time ago. In my opinion, they should have joined in, been apologetic and assured us these issues would be resolved with future production.
I could be wrong -- but the stocks are made by Melvin, not Titan. It would be interesting to know if Forbes receives the stocks fully inletted or that's their baby.
I still have no doubt Forbes will resolve the issues at hand....and I have no doubt it will shoot better out of the box than any Kimber I've ever seen.
Let's hope for Rancho's sake that everything comes back perfect. If not, he should be reimbursed in full -- no questions asked.
The irony in this thread -- Rancho isn't the one crying. He's posted photos and been extremely patient. We've all been overly critical (including me), while Rancho has taken everything in stride...
Any update, Rancho Loco? I hope they have taken care of this by now.
I really like Forbes rifles, and hope they can improve on their QC. It is the easiest ultralight for me to shoot accurately, and overall I am very happy with mine.
I would stay out of the fray if I were Forbes Rifle. Hopefully if everything resolves, the guys with the bunk rifles will report that their rifles are fixed and that they are now satisfied. Later some guys or gals get new rifles that meet or exceed their expectations and post their experiences as "raving fans". This is how businesses turn around a tough product launch. I think it will resolve. I was disappointed to hear that some of their guns had quality control issues. I wanted to buy one and try it out. I will wait and anticipate them getting it together. Meanwhile NULA seems the way to go right now.
Tripe. There are many that were ready to buy that won't. Those not here contemplating will Google and land here. Given the response RL has received, not, is a clear indicator of the company for me. As I wrote earlier, for Mel so sit back and let this fester is stunning.
I have a brand new scope at Trijicon for repair. They claim a 4-6 week turn time. Dot did not perform correctly. Has been 4 weeks and just got moved to "repair" status. Dropped a pair of Hawke binoculars and screwed up one of the eye cups. They fixed them for free and had them back in about a week. Got them this week. Companies vary on turn time of repairs. Perhaps Forbes is rebuilding the rifle. Certainly someone should be able to tell you what is going on with it if you call in.
I used to own a ford F250. When there was a problem, I would need to call to see if they were looking at it, what the problem was, ETA, how much, etc. etc.. Truck would sit in the same spot for days, while I was told their best guy was looking at it.
Bought a Nissan, when I took it in, I would recieve constant calls updating me on when they were looking at it, what the problem was, ETA, etc. etc.. If I drove by, it was in the bay when they said they were working on it.
Think I was happy with the ford, and would want another one?
Chit.....Mcmillan takes near 3/4 of a year to make a fiberglass stock. More than a few gunsmiths take twice that just to lose a few screws and scratch your chit up.
Why people don't get customer service is beyond me. There really is nothing simpler.
Chit.....Mcmillan takes near 3/4 of a year to make a fiberglass stock. More than a few gunsmiths take twice that just to lose a few screws and scratch your chit up.
Why people don't get customer service is beyond me. There really is nothing simpler.
Problem with the above statement is THEY'RE making something, not fixing something they [bleep] up.
In the day and age of the lovely internet, all it takes is a simple follow up.
If someone is asking the same question every day it's one thing, but a simple courtesy call/e-mail goes a long way.
Chit.....Mcmillan takes near 3/4 of a year to make a fiberglass stock. More than a few gunsmiths take twice that just to lose a few screws and scratch your chit up.
Why people don't get customer service is beyond me. There really is nothing simpler.
15 working days.. Communication is one of the easiest and effective tools in modern business, with email, text, and constant phone contact, and it's astonishing when companies fail at it.
OP - think you are right, with no quality in the mfg nor any communication given the gravity of their reputation on the line, I anticipate they may well be dead in the water.
Personally if that is how they treat a customer, they won't get my respect, or $$$
Chit.....Mcmillan takes near 3/4 of a year to make a fiberglass stock. More than a few gunsmiths take twice that just to lose a few screws and scratch your chit up.
Why people don't get customer service is beyond me. There really is nothing simpler.
15 working days.. Communication is one of the easiest and effective tools in modern business, with email, text, and constant phone contact, and it's astonishing when companies fail at it.
I wrote on their face book about a week ago that they need to answer emails, especially from people who have a rifle that won't function. I got back a message the next day that said to the effect "sorry, I've been out of town for the gun show, I've got 2 weeks to catch up on" Then I linked another message there to this thread. A few days later, I got another message saying my message had been found and answered. I don't know who they thought I was unless some other Randy had a problem with a rifle.
I thought they had answered you, when they said they had answered me. It makes me wonder how many problem rifles they are having to answer for.
Sorry, if I did anything that you didn't approve of. I was very nice in my answer back and said I just wanted them to succeed, and I hoped they could get things worked out, which really is the truth. Someone is seriously dropping the ball here though. All I can see is that they must have a serious revenue problem, and are rushing to fill the gap with sales, but these returns will kill them in the long run since it will only lead to worse revenue problems.
I hate it for Rancho, but his experience has been educational.
Being able to screw a rifle together doesn't make someone a businessman.
Looks like this is strike 2 on mass producing light rifles.
One of the biggest mistakes most start ups make is focusing just on sales, production and delivery.
QC is haphazard and customer service is someone's Mother in law that doesn't have a clue. There is no mechanism set up to review & diagnose problems, make the necessary changes and keep the customer informed.
The inevitable problems begin piling up and before long you have a mountain of pissed off customers because you keep making the same mistakes, not addressing problems and not communicating effectively.
By the time you start circling the drain it's too late.
I used to own a ford F250. When there was a problem, I would need to call to see if they were looking at it, what the problem was, ETA, how much, etc. etc.. Truck would sit in the same spot for days, while I was told their best guy was looking at it.
Bought a Nissan, when I took it in, I would recieve constant calls updating me on when they were looking at it, what the problem was, ETA, etc. etc.. If I drove by, it was in the bay when they said they were working on it.
Think I was happy with the ford, and would want another one?
Funny, I went through something similar with a Dodge years ago, switched over to Toyota and haven't looked back.
Forbes needs a dedicated customer service department. The " I was out of the office for x...." doesn't cut it. It's all about setting reasonable expectations, maintaining communications, and then delivering.
RL, I'd be calling them every day and punching out to get a live voice to ask for updates. You have a lot more patience than I would have.
Forbes has a great product; it's a shame that they haven't pulled customer service together yet.
Who knows, maybe they'll come back with something that makes it right. They have been demonstrated to be shooters, so if it's all fixed and it shoots great it will help. Nothing like an experience like this to take the shine off a new toy though.
My guess is Melvin will make things right before the dust settles. He's still fixing (upgrading) the Colts for a reasonable price all these years later.
What will happen in the mean time is anyone's guess.
I called yesterday 12 noon MT asked for an ETA, was told they didn't know, and he needed to go down to check. I asked to be contacted with the ETA as soon as he knew, because I was getting nervous...
I better hurry up and get a 20B to be used as a donor for a Melvin upgrade.....don't think they are going to be around long. Anyone have one with a crap barrel or won't shoot or has some problem that they want to let go cheap?
I better hurry up and get a 20B to be used as a donor for a Melvin upgrade.....don't think they are going to be around long. Anyone have one with a crap barrel or won't shoot or has some problem that they want to let go cheap?
I don't know if I wouldn't rather use a Kimber 84M as a donor. What makes the Forbes better? I mean if you are going to change the barrel anyway. I personally like every feature of the Kimber better. Better trigger, Better extractor, better safety that doesn't need a coin slot cut out for it to work.
I better hurry up and get a 20B to be used as a donor for a Melvin upgrade.....don't think they are going to be around long. Anyone have one with a crap barrel or won't shoot or has some problem that they want to let go cheap?
I don't know if I wouldn't rather use a Kimber 84M as a donor. What makes the Forbes better? I mean if you are going to change the barrel anyway. I personally like every feature of the Kimber better. Better trigger, Better extractor, better safety that doesn't need a coin slot cut out for it to work.
I better hurry up and get a 20B to be used as a donor for a Melvin upgrade.....don't think they are going to be around long. Anyone have one with a crap barrel or won't shoot or has some problem that they want to let go cheap?
I don't know if I wouldn't rather use a Kimber 84M as a donor. What makes the Forbes better? I mean if you are going to change the barrel anyway. I personally like every feature of the Kimber better. Better trigger, Better extractor, better safety that doesn't need a coin slot cut out for it to work.
I called yesterday 12 noon MT asked for an ETA, was told they didn't know, and he needed to go down to check. I asked to be contacted with the ETA as soon as he knew, because I was getting nervous...
No reply yet.
I don't know how much good it would do, but I'd be placing a call to WV. Surely Melvin doesn't want two fiascos with a production version of the NULA.
I don't think that is Melvin's company. Melvin likely licensed his design and name to them and serves as an advisor. This company may own NULA as well now and Melvin has control of that division.
At this point I would write it off and do nothing and let them decide their future with a weekly (monthly?) RL update. RL ain't gonna go in the poor farm over this and is treating it exactly as I would. Pizz on them. I see one of our favorite writers and Melfans has been silent on this...
I see one of our favorite writers and Melfans has been silent on this...
...and what exactly would you want the writer to say? Why should he participate? Melvin didn't build this rifle.
I'm not guessing when I say this -- There have been several guys from this site that have sent emails to Forbes (not Melvin) Rifles about this thread and RL's ordeal. They've been watching this thread and I'm baffled by their choice to remain silent......the silence towards RL is even more baffling.
I see one of our favorite writers and Melfans has been silent on this...
...and what exactly would you want the writer to say? Why should he participate? Melvin didn't build this rifle.
Agreed. The writer has nothing to gain and much to lose by jumping into situations like this. I give writers credit for staying out of the fray, because it's got to be challenging at times. Especially when they start getting called out for it.
I see one of our favorite writers and Melfans has been silent on this...
...and what exactly would you want the writer to say? Why should he participate? Melvin didn't build this rifle.
I'm not guessing when I say this -- There have been several guys from this site that have sent emails to Forbes (not Melvin) Rifles about this thread and RL's ordeal. They've been watching this thread and I'm baffled by their choice to remain silent......the silence towards RL is even more baffling.
I would guess that a few reached out to Rick at Forbes; found out that there are two sides to every story, and chose not to get involved.
Sorry RL, not at all. I actually had some quality issues with Forbes myself, although they were nothing like what you've seen.
I was answering SAS' question in speculating as to why folks might not have come forth after talking with Forbes. I have no idea who might have told whom what. When I dealt with Forbes in the past (like last year), they admitted to having some QC issues, but also said that they'd had a number of people bung up rifles and then send them back saying it was a Forbes issue.
You have been completely level, and have legitimate issues that I hope Forbes is addressing. If I were in their shoes, I'd clearly state my CS policies and service levels to set expectations and have clear customer communications. Also, given how many potential customers are on 24HCF, as the vendor I'd get on this thread myself to redeem the company reputation.
The "they" I was referring to was Forbes....not anyone here. I was stating the fact that others have contacted them because of this thread and they (Forbes) have not responded to RL or this thread.
"Two words of caution: The Shaw barrel is pretty rough and collects copper very quickly, so be advised that unless you clean your Model 24B with great vigah, it will quickly cease to shoot well."
$1400 for a Shaw barrel ?
A Marlin XLC (camo dipped) in 7mm08 costs less than $350.00. It weighs 6.25 pounds. It has a fine trigger. It will shoot sub MOA all day long. Pillar bedded. If you want something different for the price of a barrel vise, one headspace gauge, a barrel nut wrench,and barrels, you can have a 243, 308, 338 Fed, or 358 Win and dozens of wildcats.
Only upgrades on my two were glass bedding the action, a glassed in dowel to stiffen up the fore end and a Remington ADL steel guard (drop in). 3 shot groups went from 1" to 3/4"
"Two words of caution: The Shaw barrel is pretty rough and collects copper very quickly, so be advised that unless you clean your Model 24B with great vigah, it will quickly cease to shoot well."
$1400 for a Shaw barrel ?
A Marlin XLC (camo dipped) in 7mm08 costs less than $350.00. It weighs 6.25 pounds. It has a fine trigger. It will shoot sub MOA all day long. Pillar bedded. If you want something different for the price of a barrel vise, one headspace gauge, a barrel nut wrench,and barrels, you can have a 243, 308, 338 Fed, or 358 Win and dozens of wildcats.
Only upgrades on my two were glass bedding the action, a glassed in dowel to stiffen up the fore end and a Remington ADL steel guard (drop in). 3 shot groups went from 1" to 3/4"
"Two words of caution: The Shaw barrel is pretty rough and collects copper very quickly, so be advised that unless you clean your Model 24B with great vigah, it will quickly cease to shoot well."
$1400 for a Shaw barrel ?
A Marlin XLC (camo dipped) in 7mm08 costs less than $350.00. It weighs 6.25 pounds. It has a fine trigger. It will shoot sub MOA all day long. Pillar bedded. If you want something different for the price of a barrel vise, one headspace gauge, a barrel nut wrench,and barrels, you can have a 243, 308, 338 Fed, or 358 Win and dozens of wildcats.
Only upgrades on my two were glass bedding the action, a glassed in dowel to stiffen up the fore end and a Remington ADL steel guard (drop in). 3 shot groups went from 1" to 3/4"
I called yesterday 12 noon MT asked for an ETA, was told they didn't know, and he needed to go down to check. I asked to be contacted with the ETA as soon as he knew, because I was getting nervous...
No reply yet.
This is a very good reason to just find a Garcia or earlier Sako and you won't have to wait any longer than the shipping to get yourself a damned great shooter. In a few years you still have a great shooter and a gun that was worth more than when you bought it...
Can't believe this particular rifle situation is still ongoing....does Forbes have any idea at all how much this has hurt their reputation given the readership here? Good grief....
I will tell you that the customer service at NULA is rock solid. Melvin called me this morning and was gracious and patient as I debated paint colors. This has to be the most boring conversation that man has for every build. I asked him stupid questions like " what are your most popular colors?" "what looks cool with a stainless barrel?" etc.... I ended up going with some color called "Jungle" that I have never seen and am not that worried about it. The build is ahead of schedule and I am very pleased with how I have been treated by NULA. Does anyone else work there? Melvin is the only person that answers the phone. I am still watching this post with interest. I hope Rancho is made whole with a well done repair or a new rifle. I would like to see Forbes succeed and get their schit together so that I can feel good about trying one of their NULA clones.
I think its been radio silent @ Forbes for awhile. I ordered a 280 w/SB a little more than a year ago. Right when this thread started & I got the call saying it would be finished up in a week & sent out. I was real nervous after seeing the pictures posted here @ the same time. However since then another month has gone by & I haven't heard a word from Forbes. All I can hope is that the extra delay means they actually have QC going on, although its probably just a delay from Shaw in the tube. If it goes another month I may just dump it & try & find a Kimber instead.
I am surprised on the continuing problem here, when I received my 24B 30-06 I noticed a small area were the paint was rubbed off and were the paint had stuck to the barrel when I disassembled it to clean it. After hunting season I sent it back and after checking it out they believed the gun was assembled and packaged to soon after being painted. They striped it, re-primed and painted it, new paint job is perfect just like my 25-06 24B.
I had both of my Forbes 24B's out to the range yesterday although I reload my hunting ammo I wanted to try I couple of factory lead free loads in the 30-06. Surprised on how well it shot all three factory loads. The Hornady GMX and Barnes T-TSX both shoot under a inch and nearly the same POI while the Federal Trophy Copper was 1.5 MOA.
I think its been radio silent @ Forbes for awhile. I ordered a 280 w/SB a little more than a year ago. Right when this thread started & I got the call saying it would be finished up in a week & sent out. I was real nervous after seeing the pictures posted here @ the same time. However since then another month has gone by & I haven't heard a word from Forbes. All I can hope is that the extra delay means they actually have QC going on, although its probably just a delay from Shaw in the tube. If it goes another month I may just dump it & try & find a Kimber instead.
I really like my Forbes rifles; they are my favorite u/l rifles since for me they are comfortable, easy to carry and shoot accurately. That being said....
I just can't understand why it's so hard for them to get their customer service in order. Just send out notifications; i.e. we received your gun, we're working on your gun with an estimated completion date of x, and your gun has shipped. Schedule time in production for a given amount of rework. It's so easy to set systems up like this these days.
I am new to this forum and one of the reasons I joined was because I was considering ordering each of my grandsons a Forbes and my research led me here. After reading this thread was hoping Mr Forbes would offer his opinion as to the poor build quality but he didn't (unless I missed it).
Ordering any Forbes rifle is no longer an option for me.
To me, this is so hugely disappointing because I see the potential for what Forbes could be. It's hard to watch a company squander such a tremendous opportunity when the solutions are so painfully obvious. What a shame.
To me, this is so hugely disappointing because I see the potential for what Forbes could be. It's hard to watch a company squander such a tremendous opportunity when the solutions are so painfully obvious. What a shame.
One of the best posts so far. My sentiments exactly!
After reading this thread was hoping Mr Forbes would offer his opinion as to the poor build quality but he didn't (unless I missed it).
I don't think he's ever participated on this forum, so it's no surprise that he hasn't offered his opinion.
Buy a Nula and you will deal with Melvin. Buy a Forbes and you will talk to the company that makes Forbes. Melvin supplies the stock, they bed them up in Mass. He has given them the rights to duplicate his action to assemble a rifle. What we receive is their doing not his.
One is made by Melvin and his couple smiths who have made thousands held to a specific standard. The other is more or less mass produced, thus the pricing difference. Forbes is obviously still in the learning curve and they will either get it right or go away. Even getting it right is no guarantee they will eventually be successful enough to stay.
I'm sure when Rancho gets his rifle back it will be what he should have received in the first place.
My NULA 260 will be shipped in a week or so. Looking forward to it. Thinking about getting a 22lr on order today. This is with the knowledge that the magazine feeding may be sketchy
The .22lr will compliment the .260. Mine has the magazine and it works when fed slow. Had it to do over I would have ordered the single. When fooling around it may be faster to feed it one at a time vs putting the rifle down, dropping the mag, loading it, reinserting and starting over.
If you don't go single have him send you some extra mags.
I find myself loading one at a time with a 22 often as well. My Anschutz sporters are not without quirks. I care a great deal about how a centerfire rifle feeds and ejects. Other than sighting them in, I am shooting at something that I care about dropping. Rimfires are toys for me. I still like the idea of a repeater rimfire. I will take your advice and order extra mags.
I saved my .22 money for another week as Melvin is out of town. I guess it never hurts to have a delay in the purchase of another gun you really don't need.
After reading this thread was hoping Mr Forbes would offer his opinion as to the poor build quality but he didn't (unless I missed it).
I don't think he's ever participated on this forum, so it's no surprise that he hasn't offered his opinion.
Buy a Nula and you will deal with Melvin. Buy a Forbes and you will talk to the company that makes Forbes. Melvin supplies the stock, they bed them up in Mass. He has given them the rights to duplicate his action to assemble a rifle. What we receive is their doing not his.
One is made by Melvin and his couple smiths who have made thousands held to a specific standard. The other is more or less mass produced, thus the pricing difference. Forbes is obviously still in the learning curve and they will either get it right or go away. Even getting it right is no guarantee they will eventually be successful enough to stay.
Clearly true as Mel apparently can GAS about the rifle that still bears his name.
We can "suspect" nothing as he has decided to not be involved. If he cannot manage two businesses at once, well that was his choice, a bad one apparently. I love the silly azz defenders of someone not performing. As I wrote earlier, some of Mel's supporters have gone wisely silent...
I've been in his living room and seen his computer. Old would be a kind description. He also isn't much for using it, so don't expect to see him on any forum.
However, it seems many here think he is the majority owner of Forbes Rifles and makes all the decisions. I'm not sure that is the case-in fact I doubt it, but could be wrong-if not the majority owner makes the rules. So I'm not all that positive he is personally running the business of Forbes Rifles in spite of his name being on the rifle.
Can you tell me who is the principle/controlling owner of Forbes Rifles?
I would be dammm particular on a "piece" that used my name. But what do I know as I am just a dumazz project manager for a major oil company that spends in a day that Mel hopes to flow in a year...
I am guessing Mel has made more custom sythetic rifles than any of the names that pop up on this forum and is respected threw out the industry so I am sure he hasnt turned a blind eye to some of the issues that forbes rifles is having........Mel stepping in and commenting on this post would accomplish nothing with some of the hair brain ideas that have been suggested here and I am sure that is why he stays away he has better things to do like building rifles and taking care of customer service issues like this one when it arises......
Rancho got the shaft, but is handling it well and waiting. I'm hoping it works out.
As for jumping on Melvin in particular; I know he doesn't play by the same set of rules that others think are the way it should be done today. Perhaps that is a flaw, but it is not for me to decide.
Perhaps Melvin is a sly fox and figured if this doesn't workout he will not only have his rifles to make, but now Forbes rifles to work on along with the Colt light rifles.
But to the critics of Melvin; does he or does he not control Forbes? Answer that and then you can correctly place blame.
We can "suspect" nothing as he has decided to not be involved. If he cannot manage two businesses at once, well that was his choice, a bad one apparently. I love the silly azz defenders of someone not performing. As I wrote earlier, some of Mel's supporters have gone wisely silent...
So, you have personal knowledge of his level of involvement in Forbes Rifles? How do you know that their business plan was/is for him to manage two businesses at once? How do you know what he's decided?
How does the fact that you manage projects for a major oil company figure into a discussion of a small-scale custom- or semi-custom rifle manufacturing operation?
I am pretty new to the campfire, as I live in Canada and most often frequent more local forums. I count myself as lucky after having had two successive shockingly poor Forbes', that it never cost me a cent. I deal with a wonderful gun dealer whose business practice is simply to make the customer happy. He refunded my money completely. But Ranch Loco being made to wait the period he has, and having largely been ignored, in spite of Forbes being made well aware of this thread, is simply unheard of. In 2014, new companies that sell consumer products, rise and fall based primarily on Internet reviews. To argue otherwise is foolishness. This thread counts as a review. The most important one I can find. I plunked down $1750 on a Forbes because of magazine articles by guys like Petzal who fawns over Mel Forbes, maybe deservedly so, and stated that other than options, there is no real difference between the NULA and the Forbes. Even if Forbes has just licensed Titan to build his actions, he is still making the stocks that in my case, and many others, are incredibly poorly done. My first one literally broke when I was taking it apart.
Forbes Rifles should have immediately grabbed a perfect one off their line and Fed Exed it to Rancho the minute they were made aware of this thread. This was the only way to handle it. To argue otherwise is to be naive of marketing in 2014. When you have a niche product, as Forbes does, they cannot afford bad press like this when getting established.
Forbes Rifles should have immediately grabbed a perfect one off their line and Fed Exed it to Rancho the minute they were made aware of this thread. This was the only way to handle it. To argue otherwise is to be naive of marketing in 2014.
I've been following this thread closely as I have a 7mm-08 on order with Forbes. I was really hoping Forbes would jump right in and make this right ASAP. As of now I am going to cancel my order. I'm just getting a bad gut feeling about Forbes. They could have made this all right in a matter of days. Word travels too damn fast on the internet these days.
I would have immediately fixed this by either paying Lobo's shipping both ways or sending him a new rifle. The costs that Forbes would have incurred are cheap compared to what the bad press from this one thread will cost them over the years as more and more people reference it. At 40 pages long Google will be pulling it up anytime someone searches for Forbes info.
All I'm doing is drawing a distinction between the man and the company. Some seem to think Mr. Forbes is in control of what Forbes Rifles does and how they handle customer service. I wonder how they know his degree of involvement or level of control over the company.
I've dealt with him directly and based on those interactions have a hard time believing this situation would've been handled as it has if he were in control of it.
All I'm doing is drawing a distinction between the man and the company. Some seem to think Mr. Forbes is in control of what Forbes Rifles does and how they handle customer service. I wonder how they know his degree of involvement or level of control over the company.
I've dealt with him directly and based on those interactions have a hard time believing this situation would've been handled as it has if he were in control of it.
I agree with you completely but one would think he would be very concerned with anything that carries his name. Makes me wonder exactly what is going on behind closed doors.
I'd be willing to bet he's very concerned. Being concerned and being in a position to dictate that things are done the way you want them are two different things. I have no idea what the business deal is between him and the company and how much control he personally has over the company. I'm wondering how others seem to know the details, or why they think he's personally in control.
I'd be willing to bet he's very concerned. Being concerned and being in a position to dictate that things are done the way you want them are two different things. I have no idea what the business deal is between him and the company and how much control he personally has over the company. I'm wondering how others seem to know the details, or why they think he's personally in control.
Yes, but from what I heard not being able to dictate how things are done was what lead to the first debacle with Colt Light Rifles. You would think something would have been learned from that experience.
Forbes was birthed and marketed as a production version of the NULA; bearing the namesake of said rifle's creator. Melvin put Forbes on his shoulders, so to me the degree of control he chose to accept is immaterial. He will take the credit or blame of this company because of the perception that he helped create.
I wish him and the company much success. If things get really rocky, I want dibs on New Forbes Rifle, LLC. I guarantee not to duplicate this goat rope a third time.
All of what has been written about degree of control is conjecture. From the lack of response and willingness to make things right and put disgruntled customers at ease, my guess is that he does not have the control that many think he has. He probably got some money up front and shares. Based on what I have read of the man, he is likely livid at what is going on. Further, I have absolutely no doubt that he has been made well aware of what is being written on this thread. Maybe he's not googling his name, but he has many friends in the industry, as well as customers, that have read this thread and likely informed him of what's going on.
don't know but just a thought that maybe they run the company in a production manner since it is a production company.........
and they are working the rifle back in to production as it allows.......
painting stocks at some point...bedding stocks at some point...chambering barrels...coating etc. etc.
maybe they don't have the man power or trained staff to do all the things needed or have a special person that handles all QC issues and he has a schedule that doesn't allow him to stop and jump on everything the day it comes in..........
All of what has been written about degree of control is conjecture. From the lack of response and willingness to make things right and put disgruntled customers at ease, my guess is that he does not have the control that many think he has. ........Based on what I have read of the man, he is likely livid at what is going on. .
That's all I was saying. As far as restaurants, there's too many cooks in the kitchen here.
It doesn't matter if Mel has say so or not about Forbes rifles. If you let someone put your name on a rifle you are going to held accountable for it. Good or bad.
Who ever is running Forbes is screwing the pooch. If Mel is making any money or owns stock in the company he better be paying attention.
There are only so many guys that will spend $1500ish on a rifle and a bunch of us have read this thread. I won't be buying a Forbes just like a won't play Kimber Roulette. I can't afford it.
I agree to a degree with both sides. Anyone putting their name on a product (company) and has it in one way or another linked to their business without having control is foolish. If that is the case then it is the only part of this I would place blame on Mel for.
Lets face it mel can't be in two places at the same time. Nor can he handle day to day operations of both businesses. As others have said I doubt but don't "KNOW" that Mel is the controlling owner. The next question I would want to know before passing judgement would be just how many "problem rifles" have been released? If it were only a few then yes Mel's best interest would be to address them personally. By that I don't mean on a forum, rather calling the owners of the said few rifles. On the other hand if the "problem rifles" are numerous then I think it is fair to say that would be above required for Mel. His time at that point would be better spent ironing out the issues at the company level.
Most all start-ups have growing pains and learning hurdles. One reason I don't like to buy products from such companies. I would guess that this will hurt them a little. I hope they will fix it and get things moving in the right direction. I don't see it killing the company unless they really can't get things under control.
It doesn't matter if Mel has say so or not about Forbes rifles. If you let someone put your name on a rifle you are going to held accountable for it. Good or bad.
Who ever is running Forbes is screwing the pooch. If Mel is making any money or owns stock in the company he better be paying attention.
There are only so many guys that will spend $1500ish on a rifle and a bunch of us have read this thread. I won't be buying a Forbes just like a won't play Kimber Roulette. I can't afford it.
Mr. Forbes does not need to address anything. What he needs to do is make damn sure someone else is addressing the problems and in an expedient manner.
These are the things that could be going on. 1. They just don't care
2. They care but don't have the capital - man power to hire someone to e-mail or call anyone with a problem.
3.They have so many problems that #2 is no longer a solution.
4.They will try to sell enough product, quality be damned, and try to hold it all together long enough to at least break even before going under.
5. They are completely clueless as to the damage being caused to their reputation. I don't see that one as a possibility because I sent them an e-mail saying just that and a link to this thread.
Does anyone know how many "bad rifles" have been sold? If it is a mere handful then I don't really see the (so called big problem)and all the judgement being cast.
I suggest every other poster on this thread buy one and see what the % is good to bad. Hope I am an other as the hunting camp needs a new roof more then I need a new rifle.
The whole issue is a month after returning an $1800 rifle the OP couldn't even get an update about what was going on. He deserved at least a nice E-mail within the first week that they got it and an apology and estimate on when it would be fixed.
Had that happened, this thread would have never existed.
Ha!!!! Coming from someone who has bought just about every shotgun out there!!!! LMWIAO (Laughing my white Irish ass off)
�.and if Battue had bought this rifle the dealer would have taken it back and I would have been done with it. The longer I'm around, the more buying used guns and cars makes sense. However, have to admit it has taken more than a few mistakes to arrive.
It doesn't matter if Mel has say so or not about Forbes rifles. If you let someone put your name on a rifle you are going to held accountable for it. Good or bad.
Who ever is running Forbes is screwing the pooch. If Mel is making any money or owns stock in the company he better be paying attention.
There are only so many guys that will spend $1500ish on a rifle and a bunch of us have read this thread. I won't be buying a Forbes just like a won't play Kimber Roulette. I can't afford it.
Dink
Bingo. Pretty simple concept really.
So you're no longer appalled that Melvin Forbes hasn't stepped in personally to fix this, it's just that "If you let someone put your name on a rifle you are going to held accountable for it. Good or bad."
no doubt RL SHOULD NOT have received this rifle the way it was and should have received an answer to his email after they had it a while but give them time to fix it .....even the campfires beloved leupold scopes takes a few weeks to repair and fix
Does anyone know how many "bad rifles" have been sold? If it is a mere handful then I don't really see the (so called big problem)and all the judgement being cast.
I suggest every other poster on this thread buy one and see what the % is good to bad. Hope I am an other as the hunting camp needs a new roof more then I need a new rifle.
I think it's been established that the failure to extract is not an isolated instance, and should have been dealt with in production and QC.
Bedding, fit and finish seem to be all over the map.. But in this case (trigger group against it's mortise) even if a one-off issue and totally aside from the hatchet job inletting, it should not have cleared QC.
I'm taking off again at the end of this week for some R&R, and requested that the rifle be in my hands before I leave.
Rancho Loco I think you have had the patience of a saint with this. I doubt I would have. More then likely I would have done as Battue said and returned it to the LGS.
I was asking the question not to be a wiseazz. But because I don't know what numbers we are talking about in the overall picture. Clearly they have issues that need to be addressed. I agree 100% that someone (may be Mel, may be not) should have given you a straight answer on day one.
I really hope they workout these problems, and make your situation right.
[quote=MontanaCreekHunter]Does anyone know how many "bad rifles" have been sold? If it is a mere handful then I don't really see the (so called big problem)and all the judgement being cast.
I suggest every other poster on this thread buy one and see what the % is good to bad. Hope I am an other as the hunting camp needs a new roof more then I need a new rifle.
I think it's been established that the failure to extract is not an isolated instance, and should have been dealt with in production and QC.
Bedding, fit and finish seem to be all over the map.. But in this case (trigger group against it's mortise) even if a one-off issue and totally aside from the hatchet job inletting, it should not have cleared QC.
I'm taking off again at the end of this week for some R&R, and requested that the rifle be in my hands before I leave. [/quote
One of the two I had experienced the trigger group hitting the mortise as well. I actually wish I would have filled the mag box and saw whet here they had ftf issues also.
Rancho Loco I think you have had the patience of a saint with this. I doubt I would have. More then likely I would have done as Battue said and returned it to the LGS.
Funny thing about that.. I called the LGS where I bought it, explained the present sitch, and asked what I needed to do to get my money back.. Guy I talked to said he would make a call and see what was up. Forbes returned his call, evidently..
LGS guy said I would be getting it back by the end of last week, and as for a return, he could do a trade in, but not for the price sold.
I just let it go, since it was a phone conversation. Believe me, if it were F2F, there would have been reservation quality fireworks going off.
FTR, this is a very well known, established and regarded LGS, who has just lost a lot of respect from my position.
rancho Loco that sucks the LGS isn't standing behind the products they choose to sell. I wonder how that would really play out face to face with them. I think if you pushed it and stayed rational they would refund total. It is a shame that it would even need to come to that.
For those of you who are COUNTING....you can reference my posts somewhere back in the bowels of this thread. Nevertheless, when I sent my defective .270 stainless 24B back (Unfired) I requested a new rifle. Rick advised me he would certainly accommodate my request, but was very forthright on the phone it would be "Mid-Summer" before the stainless .270's would run again. Since then I have been idle on my end, as I will take the man at his word. I do however expect a NEW-FULLY FUNCTIONAL/ACCURATE .270 24B Forbes rifle upon re-delivery. My gut tells me they will deliver.....if for some reason I am wrong..I will simply Demand a Full Refund...and live to fight another fight! While I believe in giving a person or company a chance to "Make It Right" once....in NO WAY will I been portrayed as the "Sacrificial-Lamb" on a Retake! One and I'm Done! Come on Forbes.....Get Your Shizz together, and Right the Ship.....as you are taking on water, very, very, very fast!
I've had a couple conversations with Forbes concerning this thread and the need to make things right. I feel confident that all will wind up to the good and Forbes has had a revelation concerning customer relations. I look forward to hearing better things very soon.
It doesn't matter if Mel has say so or not about Forbes rifles. If you let someone put your name on a rifle you are going to held accountable for it. Good or bad.
Who ever is running Forbes is screwing the pooch. If Mel is making any money or owns stock in the company he better be paying attention.
There are only so many guys that will spend $1500ish on a rifle and a bunch of us have read this thread. I won't be buying a Forbes just like a won't play Kimber Roulette. I can't afford it.
Dink
Bingo. Pretty simple concept really.
So you're no longer appalled that Melvin Forbes hasn't stepped in personally to fix this, it's just that "If you let someone put your name on a rifle you are going to held accountable for it. Good or bad."
These rifles have been in this area a few months now;used one's are starting to hit the racks(I can think of two I have seen).
I look at them every week and honestly don't see $1500 of value there....I'm not too anal about looks in a working rifle but the metal finish sucks and the actions operate like someone tossed a handful of sand into them.
The stock is OK and it's a light rifle but I'll take the Kimber all day long.
Or maybe you are. How about taking a crack at these puzzlers?
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by EdM
We can "suspect" nothing as he has decided to not be involved. If he cannot manage two businesses at once, well that was his choice, a bad one apparently. I love the silly azz defenders of someone not performing. As I wrote earlier, some of Mel's supporters have gone wisely silent...
So, you have personal knowledge of his level of involvement in Forbes Rifles? How do you know that their business plan was/is for him to manage two businesses at once? How do you know what he's decided?
How does the fact that you manage projects for a major oil company figure into a discussion of a small-scale custom- or semi-custom rifle manufacturing operation?
Thing is, even a Nula for the most part has a small cult following. The shooters here and some of the serious ones know, but go to the range with a Nula and since they shoot well some become curious. Always fun to hand them the rifle and they are taken back by its light weight. Next question will be who makes it? Tell them it is a Nula and you will get, "Who are they?" Tell them it is Melvin Forbes from close by in WV and no bells are rung. The Colt Light Rifle brings about the same response. And from what I see at the range, while most like a well made rifle they are quite content with the Rem, Win, Sav, Tika, etc level of weight, quality and accuracy. Combine it with the fact most don't carry a rifle around enough to get excited and dig out the extra cash to pay for light and probably not all that willing to pay for an unknown product.
Kimber spends large dollars on advertising for their entire lineup. They promote themselves. Melvin essentially relies on word of mouth and his personality along with a few writers that speak highly of his rifle. Forbes? Perhaps they also made the mistake of thinking Melvin Forbes and Nula are household names with shooters and hunters; because they are part of the cult. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think one of the Titan guys also a worked for Colt at one time.
Forbes perhaps will make a great rifle. Next thing is to figure out how to make buyers.
Marketing is easy when the product is "right". It takes big money to counter bad press.
Do a google search on "Forbes 20b". The first three results are all from Forbes. The fourth result contains a link to this thread. That's a good indicator on the number of hits this thread is getting...and more than likely those hits aren't coming from guys on here.
Perhaps they also made the mistake of thinking Melvin Forbes and Nula are household names with shooters and hunters; because they are part of the cult.
I traded some emails with them concerning this and their marketing. They didn't need my help.
Marketing is easy when the product is "right". It takes big money to counter bad press.
Do a google search on "Forbes 20b". The first three results are all from Forbes. The fourth result contains a link to this thread. That's a good indicator on the number of hits this thread is getting�and more than likely those hits aren't coming from guys on here.
Like Kimber money? Because we both know they had more than a few "hits" from here also.
Addition: Personally don't know if they have that kind of money or the commitment to ride out the storm.
Another thought...Kimber had the market cornered when they introduced their product. Forbes is fighting for a place in the market with an already established producer.
Another thought...Kimber had the market cornered when they introduced their product. Forbes is fighting for a place in the market with an already established producer.
One could also argue that NULA created the market. From my perspective, Forbes was a born success that needed a reason to fail. Sadly, they managed to find one right out of the gate.
I had a Kimber Montana 338 FED. nice rifle light shot pretty well. But I like my USED WBY MK V Ultra Light Weight 30-06 bought here on the Fire a lot more. I was going to try and save up for a all stainless Forbes 270 WIN. WHEN THEY come out but now I will stay content with my WBY ULW 30-06 AMRA
I'd think there was more to the deal than just licensing the use of his name and design in exchange for a check - i.e. he'd want assurances, oversight and recourse actions he can take. Maybe the checks are big enough that it doesn't matter.
We'll agree to disagree. Buying a screwed up rifle is certainly frustrating, but it's not getting stuck if the manufacturer makes things right.
I think it does qualify as getting stuck to a degree. You have to take into account the time, travel, maybe shipping cost, and aggravation, not just the final result.
It's similar to getting rear-ended in your car. Yeah, you'll probably get your car fixed, but it's still a giant PIA that could have been avoided if the other guy had simply paid attention to the job at hand.
Forbes was handed a golden egg on a silver platter and futzed it up. They need to kiss some serious butt for the customers that received junk, AND get things straight in a hurry or they will fold. It may be too late.
We'll agree to disagree. Buying a screwed up rifle is certainly frustrating, but it's not getting stuck if the manufacturer makes things right.
I think it does qualify as getting stuck to a degree. You have to take into account the time, travel, maybe shipping cost, and aggravation, not just the final result.
It's similar to getting rear-ended in your car. Yeah, you'll probably get your car fixed, but it's still a giant PIA that could have been avoided if the other guy had simply paid attention to the job at hand.
Forbes was handed a golden egg on a silver platter and futzed it up. They need to kiss some serious butt for the customers that received junk, AND get things straight in a hurry or they will fold. It may be too late.
I agree that getting a bum rifle is a big PITA and that Forbes is screwing the pooch by letting known issues continue. I just think it's too soon to say that people are getting stuck when we don't know how Forbes will ultimately resolve the problems. If guys like Rancho just end up with the functional rifles they should have had in the first place, after all of this hassle, Forbes is certainly sticking it to its customers.
We'll agree to disagree. Buying a screwed up rifle is certainly frustrating, but it's not getting stuck if the manufacturer makes things right.
I figure if I have to send the rifle back to the maker, to be fixed at all, I took a beating. I have never seen those episodes end happily...at least for me.
I figured out that manufacturers make rifles to a certain standard;and "fix" them to that same standard,which isn't necessarily what the customer expects.Took me a couple of episodes to figure this out.
The best warranty in the world is one that you never need,but people are conditioned today to expect warranties,because there is so much shidt on the market.With a good rifle,warranties are not (should not be) required.
If a rifle needs to be fixed, I give it to a good smith;I don't trust factories to fix rifle problems.
I figured out that manufacturers make rifles to a certain standard;and "fix" them to that same standard,which isn't necessarily what the customer expects.
If a rifle needs to be fixed, I give it to a good smith;I don't trust factories to fix rifle problems.
You young Bucks would be well advised to jot these words of experience down for future reference.
I figured out that manufacturers make rifles to a certain standard;and "fix" them to that same standard,which isn't necessarily what the customer expects.
If a rifle needs to be fixed, I give it to a good smith;I don't trust factories to fix rifle problems.
You young Bucks would be well advised to jot these words of experience down for future reference.
You old people need to lay off the Cialis. Every time I've sent a firearm back to the manufacturer for warranty work it came back UBER quick and was UBER fixed.
I'd suggest Forbes adopt the same CS strategy or they're going to become a distant memory UBER quick.
Don't need it. However, not saying i don't have any or haven't tried it.
Anyway, I've sent a shotgun off to browning. 6 months later it came back and still broke. Try sending something off to Beretta and get back to me on uber-quick.
Have to admit Ruger didn't waste much time and the work was done correct.
Uber correct on Forbes. Sounds more every day like history repeating itself with Nula clones. Uber deja vu?
Don't need it. However, not saying i don't have any or haven't tried. it.
Anyway, I've sent a shotgun off to browning. 6 months later it came back and still broke. Try sending something off to Beretta and get back to me on uber-quick.
Have to admit Ruger didn't waste much time and the work was done correct.
Uber correct on Forbes. Sounds more every day like history repeating itself with Nula clones. Uber deja vu?
Those companies must UBER suck.
I'm UBER taking a road trip with my UBER savage children.
Forbes has been watching this thread since day one....I know this because they told me so.
Forbes has been contacted from multiple guys on here about this thread....I know this because they told me so.
If this thread has been monitored and they've been contacted multiple times from guys on here concerning this issue, why not use this fiasco to show how their customer service shines? Why no public apology on here to show that they care about their product and assure us they'll address these production issues?
If a situation like this doesn't deter potential purchases, I don't know what will. The repairs should have been expedited and they should have assured potential buyers that things like this won't happen again. There are no excuses at this point given the fact that they've read every post on here.
Me presently in their position? I would have a new function and accuracy tested rifle out the door long before this. May have to have it re-registered on Ranchos end if the serial number is different, but doubt that would anger him.
Public apology? More than a few have difficulty in verbally saying they screwed up. Pretty much the nature of the beast for the most part. I'm more surprised when the reverse occurs.
I figured out that manufacturers make rifles to a certain standard;and "fix" them to that same standard,which isn't necessarily what the customer expects.
If a rifle needs to be fixed, I give it to a good smith;I don't trust factories to fix rifle problems.
You young Bucks would be well advised to jot these words of experience down for future reference.
You old people need to lay off the Cialis. Every time I've sent a firearm back to the manufacturer for warranty work it came back UBER quick and was UBER fixed.
I'd suggest Forbes adopt the same CS strategy or they're going to become a distant memory UBER quick.
Travis
Travis none of the rifles I have bought for hunting have ever had to go back to a factory for any fixing. The only one's I sent back, were the rifles bought for entertainment...that was twice as I recall.
Travis none of the rifles I have bought for hunting have ever had to go back to a factory for any fixing. The only one's I sent back, were the rifles bought for entertainment...that was twice as I recall.
More words of experience if one is willing to read between the letters.
I like my Nula's, but a couple of them have made a drive back down to WV. If it wasn't for light I wouldn't fool with them. It doesn't surprise me the clones have problems also, due to the fact they are more mass produced.
Every time I've sent a firearm back to the manufacturer for warranty work it came back UBER quick and was UBER fixed.
Travis
I guess you never sent a Remington back.
I sold a Remington rifle to a member here when the trigger recall came out. The member asked that I send the rifle in for the recall before shipping it to him. After a couple weeks the member starts whining about not getting the rifle so I sent him a refund and have been waiting on the rifle to return. They have had it since the end of April and will not give a date it will be returned. Want to guess how many more of them I am buying? Probably the same number of Forbes rifles I am going to buy after this thread.
Life is to short to do business with companies that can't get their chit together.
P.s. Any want to buy a Remington SPS varmint when it returns?...
Just a thought but do you suppose they know they are going down and thats the reason for the lack of concern? What are your opinions on the prospects of a rifle company like this pulling out of this and staying in business? I opened this thread and been following it as I am considering a 7mm08. A Forbes 20B was on the list of possibles.
I sold a Remington rifle to a member here when the trigger recall came out. The member asked that I send the rifle in for the recall before shipping it to him.
If it was me he would have ceased being a buyer at that point.
Oh...ok...I get it now...sending a rifle back to Remy to get the trigger fixed...just a joke. Sorry I missed that one.
Just a thought but do you suppose they know they are going down and thats the reason for the lack of concern? What are your opinions on the prospects of a rifle company like this pulling out of this and staying in business? I opened this thread and been following it as I am considering a 7mm08. A Forbes 20B was on the list of possibles.
I have followed this post from the start because I too was interested in getting a Forbes s.s. 270 WIN when they are in production my LAST RIFLE . But now after reading all these posts? I have always been a Weatherby guy for years now When My Wife had my box stock Mark V 270 Roy stainless made into a Custom Shop Outfitter model Weatherby called me EVERY week for give me updates on what had been done to it and what still had to be done until the rifle was finished. After I got it back with a complete break down of all work done and factory accuracy target. I got a follow up call from the Foreman of the Custom Shop wanting to make sure I was satisfied with the worked preformed. Some companies still do care about customer service. When I had questions about the Mark V ULW 30-06 I bought here on the Fire I had a phone call plus e-mails the same day. Nothing wrong with it just wanted to know date of Manufacturing etc. FACTORY rep told me if any problem came up with it just send it to them and they would fix it. AMRA
This topic began of 4-18 and today is 6-13 with no "repaired" rifle in hand. By my count that is 55 days without a resolution. I'd be a little more than chapped. In my opinion, Forbes expanded the line too soon into new cartridges, long/short actions, stainless actions and barrels. Growing pains are great if you can handle the increase in demand.
Melvin Forbes of Granville, WV has manufactured a lightweight hunting rifle that is known throughout the industry for its light weight, superior workmanship and precise accuracy. Continuing that tradition, Melvin has teamed with Titan Machine Products Inc, a world class manufacturing company in Westbrook, ME to form Forbes Rifle LLC to produce a production model of his award-winning design.
Rifle arrived today. But I'm 600 miles away, which brings up a humorous and frustrating turn of this whole deal.
All I will say at this point, is that communications with forbes sank to the level of absurdity in this last week.
Even if thus rifle shoots lights out, and feels like a naked supermodel on satin sheets, I'll never buy another.
So Forbes sent your rifle back in the hands of a naked supermodel with some fresh satin sheets and you're 600 miles from home? I understand the frustration.
Melvin Forbes teamed with Titan to form Forbes Rifles?
Who knew?
Originally Posted by shortactionsmoker
Mine did the same thing. Tried several brands of brass, same issue.
Called Rick and he sent me a new extractor. I put it in and it functioned perfectly. You'd think that would be something they'd check...
FWIW--I called Melvin about potentially upgrading the rifle and told him about the extractor issue. He wasn't happy and then he asked about the new trigger. I told him I preferred the old (his) design and he said he'd had several calls about the triggers�didn't sound happy about that either.
Perhaps the above will tell a little something about who many be causing the problems and making bad decisions. Carrol Shelby put his name on a Ford Mustang, but if Ford kept installing faulty transmissions and rear ends who would you blame? Mr. Shelby or Ford? Shelby got a piece of the pie and perhaps made a bad decision to partner up with Ford, but his name on the glove box doesn't necessarily mean he should KTA of every buyer who got stuck on the side of the road as Edm seems to think.
One thing for sure is up in Maine there is somebody who doesn't know how to put a rifle together and somebody else who doesn't check his work.
A perusal of Titans overall production shows a lot of military small arms production for the US government and others. Substanial parts supplier to Colt and they pride themselves of "Continuous Improvement". I still maintain its growing pains that surpassed their ability to deliver a quality rifle. Plus there could be some vendor issues with smaller component parts. It doesn't excuse the problem but left unchecked will be the demise of their new venture.
I just have to question Mel's wisdom in such matters. This is his second go around (Colt Light Rifles) and it appears to be problems again.
When will he learn to not do business with YANKEE companies?
Read this at a red light on the way work. Thanks for starting the morning out with a beeeg grin. Now I have to get to work before that Yankee boss begins chewing on my ass.
Please expound on that. Does it mean Mr. Forbes controls what is going on at Forbes Rifles and how customer service is run? Does it mean that their plan was for him to run two businesses at once, as you said earlier? I seriously doubt that.
And if your post was directed at me, take note that I never questioned that there was a relationship between the two. In fact, it's obvious since they used his name.
Why don't you answer the questions I asked earlier?
Its a real shame that Melvin Forbes, a man who has been an innovator, a top notch gunsmith, and is well respected by industry insiders and customers alike, is going to forever be linked to two of the biggest goat roping clusterphukks to come down the gun industry pike in many a year--the Colt Light Rifle debacle and the burgeoning Forbes/Titan QC and customer service mess.
Rifle arrived today. But I'm 600 miles away, which brings up a humorous and frustrating turn of this whole deal.
All I will say at this point, is that communications with forbes sank to the level of absurdity in this last week.
Even if thus rifle shoots lights out, and feels like a naked supermodel on satin sheets, I'll never buy another.
I've read this whole thread and have to say you showed some real patience RL. I'd be done earlier, at the point BobinNH indicated earlier. It's sad to see this lack of quality in a domestic product that is so below what is reasonably expected at the rifle's price point.
What's more, as also has been mentioned, good, quick, continual communication can fix and prevent a myriad of problems and indicate good will on the part of the business toward those who'd buy their products and instill some confidence in the customer. This isn't hard stuff and is simply amazing to me.
Here's my broader observation though: I find this kind of thing generally increasing in many products and services of late. It seems to me pride in a job well done in a service or product is paralleling the decline of many aspects of our society as we slide to Second World status.
I can't wait to hear the rest of Rancho's story. He has had the patience of Job up until yesterday, so Forbes must have really screwed the pooch with him.
I tend to be a perfectionist. I have a practical side as well, but just to play Devil's Advocate...
You guys are a tough crowd.
Forbes is attempting to supply a semi-custom production rifle for 1/2 price, and still sell it through a dealer network as well. Does current production from any of the big names compare in any way to the design of this rifle? Action? Stock? Barrel?
Not sure what caused RL's failed extraction, and while that can be somewhat disheartening, there's not much there to go wrong...it sounds like an out of spec extractor, and that's not a big problem. I have a Remy with a bad extractor that needs replacement, and I have a few spares on hand, but it still works so it's left as is for now. I wouldn't send a rifle 6k miles round-trip for that...Forbes is taking care of the customer, unlike most of the major names, but if you send a rifle back to the factory, expect some time to pass by regardless of who the maker is.
A little wet paint on the barrel channel?
That's considered a major defect?
It sounds to me that they were somewhat overwhelmed with early demand, and they are shipping out the wine before it's time. As time goes by, Forbes will shake out these small glitches in their production line, and the rifles will be better.
I wouldn't let any of this stuff keep me from owning one if I wanted to rock the design...it's a very cool rifle.
It seems to me that folks must have otherwise picture perfect lives if small stuff like this gets under their skin.
After all this I will stick to my Kimbers. I rolled the dice once with a start-up rifle company. I promised myself never again after the fiasco with George Sandmann.
No, I agree the extractor needs to be fixed one-way-or-the-other.
It kind of sounds that way, but I'm not being critical of you, RL, in any way, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate and offering a different POV regarding the overall tone of the thread.
All I'm really saying is that this is really a minor issue and not to get discouraged about the rifle.
Compounding things, I agree that it's obvious that Forbes seems to not have the right people in place to earn an A+ for CS hand-holding. If it were my company I would put that at the top of the manpower list, especially if I planned to screw up, but new start-ups are almost universally plagued with glitches, and it sounds like they have a lot on their plate at the moment. I wonder if they test fired the piece, how hard is that to do?
There are masterpieces of precision and perfection in manufacturing available from the likes of Borden, Surgeon, etc, and the like, but the bare actions are over a grand or thereabouts. A rifle like yours would be pushing 5k, but it's available if anyone want it.
I have simple requirements, so I think could do 90% of what I need to do with an out-of-the-box Ruger American, and that's out of the 100 or so odd rifles in my safe, but I think Forbes does offer a unique product for those that want one, and since you seemed to get the short straw here, I hope your rifle turns into one that you might eventually like once the issues are sorted out.
I've seen so many pitiful examples of obviously defective, abused, neglected, or just otherwise fubarred stuff that I was able to turn into something functional and useful, that I am somewhat immune to minor issues; but almost nothing is ever perfect to my eye and might need a little tuning-up.
If not you can always ask them to give you a new rifle and see how they handle that, and if I was running CS that's what I'd do for you, in fact, I'd probably insist.
You sometimes get what you pay for. If you really want to make a Remy right you have to throw out everything but the bare action tube, and even that one piece still needs work, and that's after all these decades of refinement.
A shooting buddy bought a Perazzi and they flew him to Italy and put him up for a week to make sure everything was perfect...now that's some right proper CS right there for a mere 27 grand.
By your own writing you don't sound like a perfectionist to me.
Thanks, that's a fair comment.
I figured I'd get some flack for playing Devil's Advocate in this thread, but what I really said was that I tended to be a perfectionist with a practical side.
Form Follows Function...
I think a NULA is more than fairly priced and a real bargain at $2500 or whatever they cost now...a Forbes is around $1500?
I have lived in the south, never had a problem with southerners. I have heard it all. The reality of it is those that really throw it around are just plain azzholes. As the same is true of the yankees that do the same about southerners. Where a person comes from doesn't dictate what the character of the person is.
By your own writing you don't sound like a perfectionist to me.
Thanks, that's a fair comment.
I figured I'd get some flack for playing Devil's Advocate in this thread, but what I really said was that I tended to be a perfectionist with a practical side.
Form Follows Function...
I think a NULA is more than fairly priced and a real bargain at $2500 or whatever they cost now...a Forbes is around $1500?
All I can say is good luck with that.
I can have a SUCKS screwed together in an Edge stock, with no throat goatphucks, for less than $1500. Sure it will weight 4 ounces more and not wear a Shaw barrel, but I'll suffer through.
Never seen so many folks wanting to drop dime on a Shaw tubed rig.
I can have a SUCKS screwed together in an Edge stock, with no throat goatphucks, for less than $1500. Sure it will weight 4 ounces more and not wear a Shaw barrel, but I'll suffer through.
Never seen so many folks wanting to drop dime on a Shaw tubed rig.
Sure, I can screw one together and it's gonna cost $400 for the action, $450 for the stock, $400 for the barrel...$1250 and counting plus 30+ hours of my time. I'd lose a lot of money selling it for $1500, but it would sure be an extracting SOB.
Shaw can make good barrels if they want to. A rifle will either shoot or it won't whatever name is on the barrel. I don't really need a 5# rifle, so I am not the intended target market for the Forbes concept.
I couldn't piece together a Montana for what they sell them for.
Lets see if you retards can send some conservatives to DC.
Bill Clinton.
Travis
Dumbazz, white southerners didn't elect him either time he ran. Blacks and yankees did, they were aided by schidt-for-brains females, to include your ex most likely. Enough white retards voted for Perot or he never would've gotten into office in the first place
Montana is white as rice. How many 98% white counties in the South elect any republicans? Not too damn many. What is MT's excuse?
I think you need to check your math on Southern districts electing Republicans. The South, (ex. Florida, most of which is not really the South) is pretty solid Republican territory.
Montana is white as rice. How many 98% white counties in the South elect any republicans? Not too damn many. What is MT's excuse?
I think you need to check your math on Southern districts electing Republicans. The South, (ex. Florida, most of which is not really the South) is pretty solid Republican territory.
Yes, I meant to type dhimmicrap, sorry, Buffalo Trace....
RL When do you get home to check it out? Out of the blue today an invoice shows up stamped paid & saying mine was shipped out on the 12th via UPS. I am curious to the extra 50 days or so since it was last finished if they actually did some QC on or if I will be mailing it right back as I refuse to go through the process you did. Interested in what you find.
Tuesday drove down Topanga canyon, checked out some cool houses in Rustic Canyon, drove up sunset blvd., visited UCLA, went up sunset some more and then saw the place my wife and I lived in Laurel Canyon 25 years ago, out of the blue met the guy living there who happens to be a lead actor in one of my daughters favorite shows.. She was all cool about it, made us proud, went to El Coyote for lunch, shopping for the wimens at farmers market/the grove, then visited a longtime friend working on the warners brothers lot and he gave a personal tour for the kids.. Had breakfast at pink's hotdog stand wednesday morning, wifey bought fabric at diamond foam and fabric, we visited the tar pits and the giant rock, did some plane watching at LAX, ate Peruvian for lunch in Hermosa Beach, then drove down to south OC.. Yesterday more mexican for lunch, shopping for the wimens, then an excellent feast at the Crab Cooker in Newport Beach last night. Today surfing lessons for the kids, water temp 70�, lunch at el pollo loco, one if the few chains I will stand, more shopping for the wimens.. Dinner will be more mexican, then tomorrow, who knows?
I was about ready to throw some money down on a new Forbes rifle but as I waited to see how Forbes customer service turned out for Rancho I decided to give my money to tikka.
T3 super lite stainless fluted 1/8 twist 223 Sportsman Warehouse Exclusive.
I handle the same rifle yesterday. Nice rifle with a nice price tag to go along with it! I'd expect better craftsmanship than what Rancho's rifle displayed.
It sucks he had a bad gun, but Forbes rifles shoot just fine. I have two, that have been shot, and they shoot extremely well. EVERY rifle company out there puts out a turn now and then.
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Give it up, eh?
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