Looking forward to my Aug '10 Dall Sheep hunt... Gun wise, I have four options, and would like to have your sound advise on which I should take and why.

1)Kimber Montana in 7-08 with Leupold 3.5-10x50. It is a light, short, and accurate gun. I am concerned if it might be marginal on long shots in windy conditions
2)Custom 264WM based on an old Sako action with Swaro 4-12x50. Stainless and synthetic. It is accurate and light, but a tad long for my taste.
3)Blaser K95 in 7x65R with Swaro 4-12x50. Is is short, very accurate and light. Stock is a beautiful piece of Turkish walnut, but it breaks in two and carries inside the pack.
4)An ultra light 300WBY built by Lex Webernick of Rifles Inc topped with a Swaro 6-18x50. unnecesarily powerful, but with an edge should the conditions get sour.

Thank you in advance for your comments.

1 or 4. If you pick 4, dump the scope for something more real world.

Pick 1 unless you're one of those guys that has to have that one sheep and fret about it. Long range is overrated in sheep hunting, Ovis poli being an exception.

1 is closest to what I use, except in .270.

First vote goes for the Kimber, thanks "toltecgriz"!

What do you mean by "one of those guys that has to have that one sheep and fret about it", please?

BBerg

Has to do with killing the biggest sheep in North America. If the concept eludes you, so much the better, no sarcasm intended.

I'm in the 4 camp provided you shoot it well. that's a fair amount of snort in a lt. wt. package.


you don't list an addy so don't know if you're an AK rez or not, if being guided I see your options as expanded, your guide will end up toting the heavy load.

if you're a res. and DIYs'er I'd opt lt. wt.


I'm taking a 5.5 lb. 7-08 to the dance this year.

Personally, I say take the .264 and if "long" means 26" barrel, all the better.

CLB

Watched David B. with realtree shoot one with a TC ML on tv lastnight.

1akhunter:
No I am not a resident hunter. I live in Spain. You mention you will be hunting with a 7-08, you are confident it is enough gun? My rifle has a 22in barrel and the best I do with 140gr bullets is 2,850fps.

CLB:
It has a 25in barrel, actually, but the old L61 action is a long one, much longer tham the small Kimber, and the stock's length of pull is another 1/4 or 3/8 longer.

Kaleb:
I am sorry, but who is David B. and what is a TC ML?


So far, one vote for 1, one for 2 and one for 4...

BBerg

These are fun questions to answer and everybody has their angle. Personally, I'd be inclined toward the Kimber (1), and the K95 (3), because I like light-to-carry and I have to admire what I'm carrying too or the hunt just isn't as enjoyable to me; that's just me.

The 7-08 should be sufficient for any 400 yd shot it you do your stuff and I'm a little fuzzy over the 7x54R (280-ish?) but it should be fine assuming you are. The K95 is a piece of art and like you say very portable too but not with that scope in my opinion. I'd go to a high quality, lighter, lower-range variable on that rifle. I think you negate some of the handling characteristics and packing ability of that nice piece with that glass. In fact, for the same reasons I'd not have a 50mm objective glass on the dainty Kimber.

Just my version; good luck on what should be a real adventure.

7-08 well on the other side of 300 yards, 140 TSX, 6x42 Leupold.

If it were a .270 he'd be on his back with four legs up in the air, no doubt.

In the first picture. Second one hadn't loaded yet. Glad to see he finally succumbed.

BB
I would probably dump the 50mm on the Kimber as well. Less is more better in sheep country.

goodnews:
the 7x65R is a balistic twin to the 280Rem. the swaro scope is not a heavy scope, weighing less than 14oz. because in Europe we hunt before sunrise and after sundawn we use scopes with large objectives, for their light gathering abilities. I could use the regular 3.5-10x since I have one at hand.

Sitka Deer:
that is a very impressive photo, thanks very much for sharing.

I guess that is two more votes for the 7-08...

Do you think that it would be wise to carry the K95 broken down and inside the back pack? My concern here would be running unexpectedly into a lifetime trophy with the rifle beyond reach.

Thanks,

BBerg

Rifles 1, 2 & 4 will work just fine. I'd personally choose the .264 or 7mm-08 flavor.

I worked with an old timer who grew up in McCarthy at the copper mine. He had a .264 Winny and swore by it on sheep. Didn't Winchester bill it at the Westerner?



TC = Thompsen Center, a rifle manufacturer. ML = Muzzleloader

I was watching that show too for a little while. Something like 5 or 6 guys in that hunting possey. Seemed to be one cute chick short of the "real deal."

Be well prepared for the shot you'll probably get. Solve other problems as they occur. I would not carry a broken down rifle in a pack in any hunting circumstance I can conceive of.

I'd go with #1, that's damn near the perfect sheep rifle.

I'd be alright if a sheep hunter showed up with either of those. If it were me I'd take #1 or maybe #4. If a hunter showed up with #4 I'd be nervous about his ability to shoot it well. The scopes especially the 6x18 would give me a case of the vapors.

I had a sheep hunter (wyoming bighorn sheep) show up with an unmentioned Muzzleloader. Ended up taking a nice sheep on the first day, but I was pretty nervous about it.

I would not carry the rifle broken down in the pack.

I know muzzle loaders can be very accurate. They have never caught my attention and I have never shot one.
But I'm turning 50 in the next few days and this will be a Dall Sheep hunt in my lifetime, that meaning that I want to, I need to, do my very best.
That means training phisically, practicing a lot shooting from field positions and seeking advise for the best equipment.
BBerg

Just as an aside, worry about the legs and lungs and the rifle will take care of itself.

6 votes for the Kimber
2 for the 264
1 for the k95
2 for the 300WBY

seems like we already have a trend here.

if you have not noticed, my heart is with the Blaser single shot. as you say it would not be wise to carry it broken down in the pack, but what about hooding it with a waterproof rifle cover like the Kifaru when the weather gets too tough?

BBerg

The closer you get to a single shot in 280 the better.

Whatever you take, you need a helium filed stock, I suggest shoulder straps for yourself a large balloon with just enough helium to keep you "Light on your feet" would be a big plus.

Reloader28
???
Sorry, I dont't get it.

3sixbits
...You bet!

If it weren't for that dern 24 hour no fly rule, I would have told you, fill it up so your feet don't touch the ground. If you score, just rig the sheep up with the balloon and let fly. when he floats to where you want him, let fly and shoot the balloon.

Or just tie a string on to your wrist and walk him out like you did when you were a kid at the circus.

I have a sheep trip set up this August (49th) birthday with Blackstone Outfitters in the Yukon. I have the "perfect Dall rifle, ie NULA .30-06; yet, I really want to take a single shot that's a little heavier, a Dakota 10 in .270 or 7mmRemMag (I seem to have one of each). I've obsessed with the legs/lungs in the last few years to the point of nutty (Personal trainer/marathons, etc). So I guess I'll have a shoot off with available ammo/reloads to see what shoots the best. This is my third Dall trip so the only thing I've got to spice it up is what to shoot with. I've even considered the bow, but I'm just not that guy.
Don

God invented magazine rifles because it was supposed to be an improvement. But single shots are fine if you are organized and things go the way they are supposed to

I would never tell a guy not to follow his heart, but I would tell him to be prepared for the consequences whether it's rifles or women.

If you've got it figured out, go for it.

I don't remember what scope you had on the Blaser, but if it's very big, I'd dump it, too.

As someone once said 'If you are going to carry more than 1 round of ammo in the field it might as well be in the magazine'

toltecgriz:
I do quite a lot of hunting with my single shot, but not in $$$ once-in-a-lifetime hunts.
When I was younger I took my 6.5x65R to the Tien Shan Mts. and shot to very big ibexes but I don't think I would do it again.
I have not got it figured out, why ask otherwise?
It is just that I feel tempted by the idea of dropping one of those magnificent animals with just one well cared for shot.
I think it really adds to the mistique of hunting, not as much as a bow hunter would feel, but something like that.
My head says otherwise and I am intelligent (?) enough of seeking advise from your experience as there is simply no substitute for that.
Regards,
BBerg

nb: the Blaser wears a Swaro 4-12x50 and weighs < 7lbs with neopren sling and three cartridges

Seems to me one can drop an animal with ONE WELL PLACED shot from a repeater also. The only difference being that said hunter might be able to get in a second shot quicker if first WELL PLACED shot wasn't as well placed as thought or to stop one from doing a header off a cliff.

YMMV

Hell, just bring one round of ammo with you, that way you won't be tempted.

I would vote for #1. It will do it all, and with reasonable recoil, at any sane (and possibly not so sane) ranges. If you are concerned with wind drift in the 708, load up some Nosler 150gr E-tips. Pretty impressive BC's on that bullet.

Oh, and best of luck on a dream hunt.

no worries here on 7-08 being enough gun. even should the rare ill tempered griz with cubs show up in the wrong place. actually had a sow and cub walk right thru camp one year but she was a good girl, i.e. a runner not a fighter.

don't know what your Rifles Inc, weighs, but my guess it's the lightest weight rig you have, can't fathom putting that heavy piece of glass upon it, but it ain't my money. just know RI and NULA are renowned for puttin together a lt. wt. package.


sure the Kimber works, but if the RI is lighter (once you swap out the Hubble) it would get the nod from me provided the recoil from that caliber in a lt. wt. don't make you do the nasty behind the scope.

if you don't want to bother with alla that, take your Kimber.


my thoughts is if you spend the loot for a true lt. wt. then sheep and goat hunts is what they were designed for.

docdb, how can you leave a Dakota 10 in .270 at home on a sheep hunt? The thing is when you stop and take a breather you can just look at it.

BBerg, I might be the only one here and I sure wouldn't want you to do something I would if you weren't inclined to in the first place but the K95 is made for hunts like this man with one caveat being the weather. But a good product like Renaissance (made in Europe?) is what I use and it's very protective of both wood and metal in harsh conditions.

Most times when you're sucking wind, it's pretty tough to concentrate on much of anything.

BB

"Having it figured out" wasn't a slam. It means if you know how you will compensate for the "handicap" of a SS in any given situation. I was assuming you have toted a rifle up a few mountains as you apparently have.

I seem to recall that bit of wisdom. Must be from a smart bastid.

Your question is easy for me. I'd take rifle #4. Why?? Because it might come down to one chance that is not exactly what you have in mind. I'd rather have more than enough gun than no quite enough!! I'm no expert by any means but on my 1st sheep hunt I carried a Rem 700 Stainless in 300 RUM in a McMillan BDL stock.
Nothing lightweight about it. I'd guess it was pushin 10-11 lbs all up with ammo. I had a moose and griz tag and ended up taking a moose along with a fine dall ram. My sheep was taken at about 250 yards. Easy shot for nearly any big game round. But it may have been a one shot deal because I was completly spent when I pulled the trigger and I'm not sure I could have climbed that mountain again. I don't think I could have gotten any closer either so if I had been presented with a 450 yard shot I had the gun to do it.


My 2nd sheep hunt I had learned much from my first. I carried a lot less of everything!! My rifle was a Mark Bansner rifle built on a 700 in 300 Weatherby that all up went about 8 lbs. Lightweight but very powerful. I killed my stone ram at 365 yards and he was going farther away and up when I pulled the trigger. I was damn glad I had that rifle with its reach and power when it came down to crunch time.


One thing I would do with your rifle #4 is change the scope to something lighter like a Leupold 4.5x14x40 or a Zeiss 4.5x14x44. Hope my 2 cents is helpful. Send us some pics when you get back and enjoy the hunt. 163bc

If you can swing the coins, go for the Merkel or Blaser single shot. Being able to break it down and back it is very good. Short is good. Light is good. And these rifles really shoot well.
The 7x65R is just like a .280 Remington.

That said, my current mountain rifle is a T3 Lite in .30-06, for a whole lot less money, and I don't have to worry about scratching it up. I also have .270 Steyr Mannlicher carbine for roaming the Appalachians

You don't know how long I can take to suck wind.

Take #1 Good cartridge mild recoil, good combo for extreme angle shots that can happen hunting Rams.

Your Kimber Montana was built for this type of hunt and is the ideal weapon to carry in nasty Alaskan weather. I wouldn't worry about bears, the 7mm-08 will kill any interior bear plus your guide will be carrying a rifle as well. Don't even tnink twice about it, the Montana was born for this type of thing.

Go with the single shot. It aint a 280 but it's close enough.

BBerg, first of all I envy you! I wish I could go on such a hunt but I am not subject to thin air anymore.

Ok, getting back to your big hunt. I would opt for the 300-Wby if you can shoot it more accurately than the .264mag OK out to 350 yds. I would use the 180 grn. bullets in the Wby. Now both rifles will shoot close to a velocity of 3200fps but the 300Wby will handle that wind better. It also will hit a lot harder too and NO worry about angle shots of any kind, that bullet will go from one end of that ram to the other savvy.

If you should choose the .300Wby, then as suggested, get another scope on that rifle. You will not need anymore than a 3 X 9 power. You are not shooting P-dogs at 400 yards, goats are much much larger. Good luck on your hunt! If you should run into a bear or even see one, the fact of having that 300Wby in your hands will take away any thoughts of NOT having enough gun.

+1

I'd take the lightest gun you got that you shoot well. Sheep are easy to kill, they are thin skinned and not tough by any stretch. Guessing off your list the Kimber is the lightest, hence the one I'd take.

BBerg, I'm glad we could clear this up quickly for you ; finding a consensus on this type of question on the 'fire is like finding a place to surf in Iowa.

Gentleman, all I can say is that I never worried about the weight in a rifle to hunt big game in the mountains until after I turned 55 years of age savvy.

However, being in Alaska once in a blue moon you are subject to run across a bear and I sure don't want anything in my hands for grizzly bears that has a parent case of a .308 behind that cartridge. Now when I was in Alaska, most of the locals carried .338 mags and those guides (if worth their salt) carried a .375H&H caliber.

I carried an FN Browning made in Belgium and it was heavy but very very accurate and hit animals like the hammer of Thor!

The straw poll is nice, but remember BBerg, there's only ONE vote that really matters.

I took a mountain goat with my .30-06 single shot. No big deal. Just have a cartridge slide on the buttstock or carry insurance in your pocket(s.) I lusted for a Dakota #10 for a while, but got over it.

But since you're going with the 7mm, now the decision is what boolit?

The animals won't be impressed with what you bring, only where and what you hit 'em with!

Number one.

I killed my first 3 sheep over 30 years ago wth a standard Rem. 700 .243, 100 gr bullets, none over 70 yards. The only one over 100 yards of 6 personally killed or family guided rams over the years died at @330 yards with an '06, 17 inch barrel, 165 gr. factory load. (1.5 MOA)

And now I have a range finder....

For this fall's sheep hunt (assuming it comes off), the wife ( designated shooter) will be carrying a .260, and I'll carry the "Stub" '06- mostly in case we meet and have to calibrate Mr Griz. - otherwise I'd be carrying the .243 again. I trust the Stub at range and short "chit-fire" situations more than I do the .280 Mauser 98.... which I built as my "mountain rifle". The Stub will be chewing 180 gr somethings- probably Remington Coreloct, which it is sighted in with. Maybe Hornady Interlocts... But I still have those 5 NP....... they all print the same at 100..

In 40 years of banging around the sheep/goat haunts, I've never seen but tracks of the Griz, or at long range- and those rarely. Moose hunting is another story... I carry either the .260 or the .338 for that....

Griz "problem" is way over hyped.... Not to entirely discounted- just only about 80%.....

The rifle I feel more confident with is the single shot, because it is the one I have hunted with the most. They are all accurate rifles, and out of a bench I would say I shoot them equally well, though.

The reason why the Rifles Inc wears that big scope is because I wanted to add some weight. I have shot a fair amount of game with it, but out of the bench I could not sqeeze its accuracy potential. I made a mistake with that rifle, it is too light for my taste and did not have the stability of a heavier gun. I added a steel floorplate and swapped the light Talleys for their steel rings and the 3.5-10x Leupold for the big Swarovski and it now feels much better.
The trend seems to be against big scopes... Is it just because uou don't like them, or because you feel there is something really wrong with them or don't find them to be functional...?

Cartridge-wise, I though the most sound choice would be the 264 but I am a bit surprised of its lack of following.

Gun-wise, the handiest guns are the Kimber and the Rifles Inc. At least there seems to be soem consensus here.

BBerg

No, since you asked, I'm not against big scopes per se but it's a matter of proportion. Match the scope in size and weight to the rifle and the game you'd usually use that chambering for. You waste the utility of a light rifle by hanging big glass (which most folks don't need most of the time for big game) on it at the same time destroying the sense of proportion between the scope and the rifle.

Even at 14 oz with the Swarov, you could shave 3 oz off which I would do with another scope and even that is important on a sheep hunt, for me anyway. I'm not saying your set-up is wrong at all if it's what you like; it's a matter of taste and what I'd do that's all.

thanks, goodnews, I think you are right.

I have not decided yet on the rifle... but it looks it would be either the 7-08 Kimber or the 300WBY Rifles Inc, with the 3,5-10x40 Leupold I have unused.

BBerg

never been....probably will never get to go...but if I did, I think I would have to carry a .270 win with 130gr bullets, just cause of, well, you know. (I know, I know, he also carried an '06).

when i lived in ak and killed my dall sheep i used the only rifle i had, a ruger tang model 77, wood/blue, 270 win with 130gr corelokts. worked to perfection. for your rifle selection, use the one you shoot the best. if you shoot them all well, take the one which is the lightest. for me, the biggest challenge was getting to the sheep and back to camp every day (and i was young and in great shape). the gun issue is almost a no-brainer. have a great hunt.

I've never been,but the classic sheep rifle "was"an 8 lb 270;but I've hunted mule deer and elk up to 10,000 ft.Read O'Connor; he shot a few sheep here and there. Today you can shave that by a pound or two,leaving nothing on the table.I'd grab my 270FW in Brown Kevlar stock at under 7 lbs.

Of your choices I'd take the Kimber 7/08.I would not worry about wind,or grizzlies, or such other minor distractions. I'd worry about carry weight and the rifle holding zero through tough weather and conditions.Toward that end I'd also ditch the 50mm scope,and replace it with a good 6X,shoot the rifle to 400-500 yards and know it. A 140 gr 7mm bullet at 2850 is more than capable.I'd prefer a 130 at 3100,but doubt I'd worry much about it if the Kimber shoots well.

The 264 Winchester Magnum, of course - possibly as a good a sheep cartridge as was ever conceived. My word is final on this - no other opinions need be posted --

Here's my take.....

I've been on two sheep hunts. The first time I took a 700 ADL synthetic in 30-06 that I found for $250 on the used rack at Gander. I found a used 3x9 Compact on the cheap, and picked up a used KS stock that I bedded the barreled action to. Again, don't shoot the donor. That thing would consistently do 1/2 MOA or under with 150 BT's or TSX's. When I found out Griz could be on the menu(if I filled the sheep tag first) I stepped up to the 180 TSX. Don't remember what the gun weighed, it's been torn apart for other projects that are gone as well. Bottom line, one shot at 275 and the sheep folded up like an accordion. Confidence plays a huge role in what ever gun you take.

For the second hunt I took, I had replaced the ADL with a Remington 700 Titanium Mtn. rifle, also in 30-06, but this time with 180 Accubonds running 2800, topped with a 3x9 Ulralight.(later replaced with a 2.5-8) That gun had more accuracy than a lightweight should have. One shot at 360 proved it. Broke both shoulders. Hunt over. Confidence again.

Since then, because we're never satisfied, I've peddled the Ti and have built a lightweight in 7-08 to replace it. So.....

On your rifles, too bad #4 wasn't chambered in #1's. That 300 makes me flinch just sitting here thinking about pulling the trigger from some God-awfull position and getting a nose full of Swaro. On that note, I take #1, because as you say, it's light, short and accurate. Sounds to me like the perfect sheep rifle right there. Personally, I'd put a 2.5-8 Leuy on it and go get in shape.

Good luck, Al

BBerg,
Here's another opinion. Just so you know, I killed my Dall sheep with a factory stock Win. M70 in 270 Win using 140gr. Nosler Accubonds. The rifle weighed about 9 lbs with a Leupold 2-7X compact scope. One shot was all it took. As others have said, sheep aren't hard to kill if you hit them right.

Now, as you no doubt know, all of the rifles and all of the cartridges you've mentioned will work just fine for sheep. So, that being understood, I think for most people it comes down to how much does the rifle weigh. That's because you're going to be toting that rifle up some incredibly steep mountains and carrying it a whole lot more than you'll be shooting it. That is probably why your voting tally reflects a preference for rifles #1 and #4.

Then again, some people would rather hunt with a pretty single shot no matter what it weighs and that is their perrogative, but for most it will come down to weight first and then their ability to accurately shoot the rifle, followed by other secondary considerations such as trajectory, wind drift, etc. For scopes, I think we all understand why you currently have large, high magnification scopes on your rifles; they suit your needs and preferences for where you do most of your hunting. However, for Dall sheep it is unlikely that you'll need so much light gathering ability since 99% of the shooting on any sheep will be during daylight hours with very little opportunity happening at dawn or dusk. Therefore, larger scopes just usually add unnecessary weight to what you have to carry around. However, if you're happy with the scopes you have on your rifles and are willing to carry them around, there is certainly nothing wrong with any of them.

Bottom line, what rifle you use should come down to which one you like the best and want to hunt with. Maybe that is the .264 for whatever reason, maybe the Blaser. Either would be a fine choice as long as you're content with it.

From my vantage point, rifle #1 or #4 are the obvious choices since they are both lightweight rifles and are both plenty of gun. Personally, if I had gone to the expense of having Lex of Rifles, Inc. build me a lightweight rig, that's the one I'd be taking. You can't go wrong with the .300 Weatherby cartridge either. However, taking the .300 Wby would be on the condition that I could shoot it well, meaning accurately and also handle the recoil in field positions. If you're scared of it or what it might do to you in the field, or have any doubts about it whatsoever, then I would take the Kimber and not look back.

Test

If you are thinking #4, try shooting prone, uphill first. Have a band-aid handy. If you don't need the band-aid after a couple of shots, you may continue to consider it.

I appreciate everyone's comments but yours, Test, I do specially. Thank you very much.

I know I will miss my Blaser K95, but my 300WBY Rifles Inc. will be the lightest gun of all when I put it's Vari X III 3,5-10x40 back on, and it is the gun I will be taking.

It wears an extremely efficient muzzle break which all guides love and I am not a recoil shy guy and I shoot it just fine.

So far I have shot it a bit, and I will shoot it much more frome here till the hunt takes place. I am confident it will put a bullet where I want if conditions are not too bad.

This is a great site, and I thank everybody!

Now we have to talk about the load, the rst of the equipment and, most important, physical training.

BBerg

Forgot to mention, I hate muzzle brakes.

saw off the showerhead then take the .300 wby.

A very cogent reply by Test; I think your choice of the 300 Wby is fine.

Good hunting and take a lot of pictures.

What are you smoking??

LC

BBerg,
Glad you found some use in what I said. I'm always happy to help out. I'm sure you'll be very pleased using the .300 Wby. Wish I was going with you just to watch you shoot that big ram!

Best of luck on your hunt!

Test

I would go with the 300Wby because of brown bear. Lose the Swaro 6-18x50 and get the new VX 3 3.5-10x40mm.....

His guide should be packing a rifle so worrying about a grizz while hunting sheep is uneccessary.
Too many people worry about bears while hunting up here, i've learned long ago that doing so isn't going to help you succeed in the field.
Worry about them when you have too, until then, enjoy the mountains and just being there.

I agree;don't think I'd worry about a thing with a 7/08.A friend got into a close range pisssing match with a grizz over a cache of sheep meat that he went to retrieve,not knowing the bear was in the neighborhood. He killed the bear at close range when the bear came for him.One shot under less than comfy circumstances.....270-130.

Im sure you all are right about th 7/08 being all you need but the 300Wby would make me feel a little better. I have see with my own eyes a heart shot black bear go 30 to 35yds before it died. It was shot with a 325wsm and 180gr TSX.

270 and 130 TSX.Cross the bear bridge when it happens.I'd have no trouble shooting that bullet at one.Wouldn't think twice.

Of the rifles mentioned the 264.

Shoot depending on what I decide come August, I may be taking my 257 Roy for sheep. All depends on what she ends up feeling like once she's in the Edge thats in the mail right now. Them 100 grain TSX's would do a doozy on a Ram!

STA:Seen them go further hit with a 340 and 210's

I understand what you are saying, but I've shot all my own black bears with the 270 and 280.It makes sense to carry a bigger rifle when in grizzly country; but I would tempt fate(I guess)and just bring the 7/08,a 270,or 280.

When after Alaskan BB, I have carried a 338 or 375

There are grizzlies where I will be hunting elk this fall; I will likely carry a 7 mag of some sort with a good 160.I should be OK.

Oh.....and dont think I wont whack a Griz with the 100 grain TSX either, would do er in a heartbeat!

Bob I hunt in grizz country most everytime I hunt.Don't matter what a guy is packing 25-06 or 338.The bear don't dictate my cartridge choice at all.

One of the biggest Kodiak bears ever killed was shot by Cindy Rhodes on video. She used a 7x57 and the video is worth the price of admission. Single shot at staplegun range piled the monster in a heap.

----------------
Heartshot critters will always go farther than an animal with the suction side of the pump intact. WIth the pump destroyed the blood continues to hold a bit of oxygen for quite a while.

With the suction side of the pump working and a vent on the downstream side a bear will lose blood pressure far faster, and die nearly instantly.

Blood pressure will drop below coherence in less than 7 heart beats if the aorta has a hole equal to its cross-section...

I have shot a number of bears through the heart that went much farther than 100 yards. Dead on their feet, yes, but moving.
art

A very important point about scope size for sheep... August is still very light, very late, in the North and the need for a good light-gathering scope is non-existant. Adding to that is the fact sheep do not hang in thick cover. Usually they stand right out against the rock, that color thing...

That is at least three good reasons why it would take a fool to carry a monster scope on a sheep rifle. But the best reason against the big scope is inertia. Inertia breaks stuff inside big scopes faster than small. Broken scopes on sheep hunts suck, I suppose. But by sticking to extremely tough stuff I have avoided that problem.

A ram I shot in the Nutzotins in the late '70s was far enough away... Yet a 4x Leupold with duplex xhairs on a 270 seemed to work fine... I have used a 3x. Even the discontinued 6x compact is a decent sheep scope because light gathering is a non-issue.

So why the 6x42 on the 7-08 BW used? It was there...
art

Only been on 1 sheep hunt, only took 1 shot, at longer range than I wanted but the only one presented after 6 days of hard hunting and fickle weather. That was my first AK trip, when I was over 50. Five trips to AK later, now I know unpredictably bad weather is the norm and light-for-cartridge rifles I know and trust are the best combo.

The rifle on the sheep hunt was a bolt 6.5-284, light, synthetic stock and 2.5-8x scope. The perfect rig for me because it is accurate and let me shoot prone at the ram without worry about the recoil. The sheep's on the wall mostly because of several hundred rounds before the hunt - knowing the rifle and knowing I could hit with it from most positions.

If I'm lucky enough to go back to the mountains for sheep or goat, I'll take another 6.5mm, like your 264WM maybe, but not a heavy scope. The rifle is only too light if the cartridge it's chambered for is too heavy for you. Don't worry so much about the 'right rifle' just practice and enjoy the hunt in God's country!

Mike: I've hunted where there were grizzlies;I defer to more experience than I have and so long as I'm carrying something sufficient,I don't worry about them.

I have never been to Kodiak,but from what I read and hear, those bears assert a proprietary interest in any deer you shoot,and rifle shots are dinner bells,so it may be wise to be suitably armed.Kodiak may be different because the bears can be aggressive. I dunno.....whatever makes a guy comfy I guess. Among personal friends,several interior grizzlies have been killed with 270's 7 mags and the like.

I am not an expert but have been on 8 hunts in Alaska. Shot my Brown bear, Moose, Sheep, black bears with one caliber. 330 dakota, 250 gr. Swift a frame.. My angle is a little different here.. I do not know if the 09 regulations are the same, however on my hunts I would always buy a Brown Bear license and that license would make me eligible for any other BIG GAME in alaska. I understand that this is a sheep hunt.. but you never know with weather conditions, sickness, whatever else that could screw up your ability to get where the sheep are. Having an all species tag in your pocket is comforting. By the way there is only probably a 50.00 adder for the bb tag. Lets say you glass up a monster brown bear and its either the first day or last.. I WOULD be nice to be able to harvest that animal if you so choose. In my 80 plus nights in the field, I have not had a problem with the bears. But I can tell you I have harvested both my Sheep and moose with a Brown bear tag. So in my opinion.. given your choices use something that gives you the ability to harvest your animal that matches the tag in your pocket. One more thing.. If your not settled on boots check out Meindels from Cabelas.They have saved my booty more than once.

Nicely worded!

Take the one that's most accurate. As was mentioned, sheep aren't difficult to put down when hit properly. My favorite rifle for all of Alaska except for moose & brownies is my pre-64 mod. 70, .270 Win loaded down with 150 gr. Partitions. Yes!! I'd use it on a grizzly too but I have a lot of confidence with that rifle. My only other comment is to [bleep] those humongeous scopes. A 2-7x Leupold is all you need for a scope and as was mentioned, we have long days during the Aug. sheep season so light gathering ability is pointless. Whatever you choose, practice a lot to improve your confidence. Also, when hunting in open country, I carry my rifle strapped down on my packboard with quick release straps. This allows me to use a walking stick. I can assure you that I can take my pack off and retreive my rifle extremely fast should the need arise.
The above is just what I've found that works for me over the years. Good luck on your trip - it'll be a very memorable one regardless of the final outcome. Bear in Fairbanks

Now you've gone and done it. Art's gonna come out of his den growling like a griz that's been awakened by someone checking the den with firecrackers!

I like the 2-7 Loopy, my own damn self.

No, the 2-7x is not all that horrible as variables go... I mean if you are that deficient, and have to have a variable, the 2-7x is not bad... It is the 2-7xCompact Leupold that rates with Burris... and to blatantly steal from steelhead... the reason god made iron sights...

Grrrr........

Man's got a memory, eh? grins

Love and confidence should define your pick - if you have both of those commodities in higher measure in one of those rifles, pick it and don't look back. All will get the job done; the best is not based on logic - it's in your heart.

Late to the party but you made a good choice.

A 7mm-08 in a kimber is an awesome sheepgun.
However, Lets say its on the last day and the big kahuna is getting ready to spook at 500 yards. You can take the weatherby and if you are practiced with it you can let it rock.

It would be less for the bears but for that situation where you just have to go to the max.

Best of luck,

Thomas

I am also late, and will make a really unpopular choice, the 7x65R.

This is not so much because of the cartridge (though it is a very fine choice for such game) but because you obviously have a lot of confidence in it, and the fact that it can go in a backpack. This isn't commonly done in the U.S. as it is in Europe, but it is a very handy way to get up mountains, much handier (in my experience) than carrying a lighter rifle over your shoulder. I have used my Merkel K-1 in that way and really like it.

But of course you have already decided on the 7mm-08, another excellent choice.

MD
Carrying the rifle in an external carrier on the pack has the dual advantages of working with any rifle and not taking up space inside the pack.

The big disadvantage is it does not take up room inside the pack which allows more crap to be carried...
art

Muledeer,
The K95 is the gun I like the most and the one I feel the most confident with.
Carrying inside the backpack makes it, for me, much easier to carry in and out of the ountains.
The problem seems to be that while hunting in Alaska the rifle has to be at hand at all times should the unexpected happen.
Anyway, I had decided on the rifles Inc in 300WBY because it is the lightest gun of all.
BBerg

The rifle does NOT have to be in your hands all the time. The chances of needing it that quickly are very slim. CHeck to see if your guide will be carrying a gun also. The requirement for them to carry was dropped a few years back (or maybe a little longer) and many sheep guides do not carry a rifle.

I would not hesitate to carry in a pack for the early going, especially.

BBerg:
Read my lips, er post!!!!!! Use 2 quick release nylon straps to tie your rifle across your packboard. 1 over & around the forearm the second over & around the pistol grip. Believe me, taking your pack off and retreiving your rifle is very fast. BTDT. You will be in open country and will want both hands free to use a walking stick. For a walking stick, cut a willow branch after you get in the field. Don't go making a mountain out of a mole hill. Bear in Fairbanks

Art's correct, the 2x7 compact won't get er done, if it doesn't shake loose before you get there, it'll leave you blind in one eye and unable to see out the other.


course there's nada wrong with giving mr. Dall a sporting chance, I may take a broken bow this year. (grin)


even with substandard equipment though a guy can get lucky


have seen a few sheep fall to the use of pastin crosshairs via 2x7 compact, oddity perhaps, but I saw it, sometimes thru the view of said scope

You haven't hunted with my wife.... we had to backtrack over a mile to find that rifle....

It's not been over a half mile if I make her carry it in her hands...

Now, those Safeway bags hanging off all corners - she never loses one of them.

She drives me crazy.....

Time flies bye and in one month I will be bound for the Brooks Range. I have been training hard all these months and I have been shooting my Rifles Inc. once a week from the bench. And once a week from field positions, too, and either lying down with the rifle resting on top of my pack, or sitting down with my elbows against my knees I regularly put three shots inside a four inch circle at 250yds.

I have put a lot of effort and it is with great anticipation that I am looking forward to my hunt. I really, really hope I find the Dall Sheep the Brooks is keeping for me but whether that happens, or not, I will try to enjoy every minute there, come rain or wind or...

I will let you know how it went.

BBerg

You should keep shooting but now you should be packing weight up and down soccer stadium steps or up stairs. Packing and breaking in your boots should be a primary concern. PS. double check all of your gear and remember to take a five lb(silnylon) dry bag of dehydrated MH, tea bags, and power bars. This is your secret stash if stuff happens. I would also take some tyvek painters overalls from a department. Mark my words.

Make sure that you itemize everything that you have and ask the guide what you will be using for tents, food, water and etc. Your prep now will be a major impact on the success of your hunt and your happiness. I know that this is not your first rodeo but many are watching your experience and I thought you should get a final rundown on little stuff.

My vote goes with the 7-08 as well. Might swap out the scope for a straight 6X, tho., if one is paranoid about weight, etc. Me, I'd take as is... But any of those listed will do- go with the one I'm happiest with...

Killed my first Dall ram at 50 feet with a .243 and 4X scope. He didn't know the difference....one with a .270 at 35 yards, a couple with an '06 out to 150 yards, one at about 330, also withan 'O6, with a 17 inch barrel!

The rifle/caliber really doesn't count for all that much on sheep assuming it is an accurate combo....

Good Luck up there!! Let us know how you do..

Kaboku, I am not sure what a tyvek painters overall is...
BBerg

I find it a bit amusing when people use the hpothesis of a certain weapon would be "better in the wind". The truth of the matter is that all bullets are affected by the wind. In truth you must know how much regardless of the cartridge. You must properly adjust for the wind. Lets say that you are shooting and a 7-08 would drift 12" in the wind, while the 300 wby would drift 8". Either round would drift enough to miss or wound an animal. you must account for the drift in either weapon. In the end shoot the weapon you fell most comfortable with. spend the time to learn the ballistics and wind drift on that rifle. I make a cheat sheet for my rifles with bullet drop and wind drift at ranges from 200-500 yards. The wind drift is based on a 90 degree crosswind at 10 and 20 MPH. Then practice "doping" wind. Less than 90 degrees = less drift, less wind speed = less etc. The point is you must learn your weapon.

My vote would be for the Kimber.

all bullets are affected by the wind, indeed, but the less the wind affects them the less chances of making an error.
if you can shoot it, a 300WBY will do everything the 7-08 does, and then a bit more. you may not need that bit more, bu then it will be there if you need it.
pointless discussion, though, as my decission was taken months ago.
BBerg.

Bberg.

Good call on the Roy. You can get Ammo for it from several sources in Fairbanks if they lose it on the airport ride.

The thing that is for the Roy is that you might run into a Brooks Range Grizz and it would be less opportunistic without the Roy which can handle that job or a long shot on Sheep. Go with your gut. Don't let anybody talk you into using a gun because they like their gun better. Leroy Shebal a famous Alaskan Guide loved the 300 Roy as did many other guides and hunters during the golden age of the 1960s. They often didn't like the Weatherby rifles but liked the caliber. Their complaint about the Weatherby's was that many of their owners had magnumtitus and couldn't shoot them or that in tough glacial country debris would get into the bolt and trigger assembly. A custom Rifles Inc will have none of these problems and as I mentioned earlier its not your first rodeo.

Tyvek painters overalls give you a white coverall or look which can sometimes be used to sneak up if you are busted. You can get them pretty cheap (5-15bucks) from home depot or Lowes. Your guide might have them but if not they don't take up much for room and they don't cost much. They can be a lifesaver. You can't specifically march at the sheep with them but they can be used to an advantage if done right.

I would also stop at the surveyor's exchange in Fairbanks and rent a iridium Sat phone for about $150 per week with 50 minutes of time. Just having the ability to call out and give the a-ok is worth it. You will thank me for that last suggestion.

Sincerely,
Thomas

Alright, I'll admit right up front I didn't read all the posts and I believe the first choice--the 7-08--would do fine, but, I have a K95 coming this month that I envisioned for just such a job. While I ordered the more pedestrian 30-06, the 7mmx65R
you mention is probably a more romantic and certainly just as practical a choice as far as capabilities.

I also have a Lex Webernick rifle but your 300 Wby is no way as light and handy as the K95 which would be a premium consideration with me and provides several options packing-wise; that said, none of your rifles could be said to be bad choices.

Sorry to waffle, but I would probably carry the K95, invest in another set of Blaser rings/base combo- carrying an extra scope. I know about the cost but I also know about the cost of a Dall sheep hunt.

Your welcome! Good hunting!

What does your pre 64 .270 weight? Would you put one in a Echols legend edge?

Ok, now that I've read OP's last post, I say, yea, not a bad choice at all! good hunting !!

It's a white, compact folding, lightweight coverall. Keeps the paint splatters off one's clothing......best worn while sheep hunting when one must be in exposed conditions on the stalk, but ONLY on all fours. An up-right white-clad bipodal wandering across a bare slope in full view of the quarry just won't cut it...

They ain't dumb, you know- but they can be fooled.

. And you have an accurate range estimation.

Oh, yeah, Art. That @330 yard shot with a 17 inch bbl? ........ was carrying a 2X7 Leupy II.....

Seems to me that too many people worry about grizz when they come up to hunt. Granted there's a slight chance you might run into one and and even slimer chance you'll run into a pissed off one but I wouldn't let it affect my hunt or rifle choice. I'd much rather enjoy the hunt then spend time worrying about getting eaten by a bear.

#2! don't care for the 50mm objectives, especially on the little Kimber. Too much of a good thing- like putting a big block Chevy in a moped.

What he said!!!
Contrary to popular opinion, there ain't a bear behind every tree (or, in this case bush). From your posting, I assume you're gonna have a guide. Let the guide worry about any bears - that's part of his job. Just use the rifle that you're most comfortable with. We've been in the area we hunt sheep in twice before (in the Brooks) and have yet to see a grizzly although we have seen old signs. I have seen bears in other parts of the Brooks but again, by keeping alert, we've avoided any problems. Just go on your trip & enjoy.
Bear in Fairbanks

My sheep rifle is a pre-64 Model 70 270 Winchester....topped with a 4 x 32 Zeiss scope...with this rig and using the 130 Nosler Partition and 61 grains of H4831 I have taken 12 NA rams..my longest shot was 277 yards in the Grand Canyon for my Desert Bighorn back in 1997...I have tried other combos but for
NA my favorite calibers are 270, 30-06, 300 Weatherby and 375 H&H

ou76,

a big welcome to the fire. Please tell us more about your sheep hunts. 12 rams - kudos. Per chance some pictures?

I really like your choice of rifle and scope - very non - nonsense.

BTW don't mind the guys. Good crowd here.

Like they often see polar bears wandering around the high country? (I suppose a human on all fours looks kind-of like a sheep, not a polar bear.) *The jury will disregard that comment as coming from one who knows little about this. However, I would add that the use of Tyvek� should include plenty of pre-trip scrunching of said article in order to soften and get rid of the crinkle sounds.

I will try and add some pictures...

North America Sheep:

Dall Sheep: Alaska 1987 and 1988, NWT 1997, 2001 and 2003

Stone Sheep: British Columbia 1990 and 2003; Yukon 2007

Bighorn Sheep: British Columbia 1995 and 2004; Alberta 2005

Desert Bighorn: Arizona 1997


Texas Aoudads:
Free ranging Aoudads Texas Davis Mtns..2000,2001,2003 and 2006

Aoudads are tough thick skinned critters and an old mature ram will weigh close to 250 pounds...I have heard stories of 300 pounders but I have never seen such an aminal!! For Aoudads, I use my 300 Weatherby topped with a 3x9x36 Zeiss scope and loaded with 180 Nosler Partitions....The free ranging Aoudads in the West Texas mountains are as wild as any NA sheep..and do not confuse these free ranging Aoudads with the canned pen hunts in South Texas!!!

I don't like to go into scores all that much since any legal ram is a trophy...especially if the ram is a 10 year old sheep...I have been lucky when it comes to Dalls...3 of my 5 have been 40 inch plus...the youngest ram I have harvested was my Yukon Fannin Stone at 9 years old....it took me 3 Yukon hunting trips and 50 hunting days get get a Fannin Stone...just part of the Stone jinx!!

Go with number 4, for one reason and one reason only- Dall sheep live in grizzly country.

When I went on my Dall sheep hunt, I was flown in by Super Cub. A flyover of my intended camp showed it to have already been visited by grizzly bear, or bears. Totally destroyed. I was flown to another campsite. I managed to score a good ram on Day 5, 12 miles from drop camp. After taking out as much as my guide and I could, on our backs, we went back the next day, to find nothing left. Griz had beat us to it!

I was glad to have had my 7 Rem. Mag. on that hunt, and would have felt even better with my .300 Wby.

You are right, Sheep country is Grizzly Country...and Grizzly encounters do happen... my choice for a combo hunt of sheep and Grizzly would be the 300 Weatherby..I have harvested 3 of my 11 Grizzlies with this caliber loaded with 200 grain Nosler Partitions or Swift A Frames during Fall combo hunts for Moose and Grizzly....However, in my sheep hunting experiences I have never encounter a Grizzly during a sheep hunt that could not be avoided ......

ou76,

to post pictures you need to have them available at a external site; like photobucket or flickr.

Then you take the linke to your image and insert it into your post like this:

[img]link[/img]

13 sheep and 11 grizzlies - definitly looking forward to the pictures.

do you have an email?? I know how to email pictures from my kodak easy share

i can post them for you. email is in my sig line.

any luck with the Grizzly picture of 2003?? SCI story?? Will try more pictures at home through easy share

here's the picture for ou76.

L'il one....

here are some more pictures for ou76

Stone 2003


Polar bear 95


Kodiak 91


Grizzly 04


Fannin Stone 07


Dall 03


Dall 01
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/walukie1/Dall2001.jpg[/img]

Polar Bear 99
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/walukie1/99Polarbear.jpg[/img]

hope i didn't mess up the dates but i'm sure ou76 will tell us about the hunts.

Paul

even more stuff of ou76's. i'm jealous!

Kodiak 91


Kodiak 01


Grizzly 95


Grizzly 05


Bighorn 04

another

Grand slam

Ain't a small bear in the bunch that i've seen and 11 of them too boot, congrats on killing some fine bears ou76!

ou 76 those are some magnificent trophy critters. Thanks for sharing them with us.

yet more...

Bighorn 97


Grizzly 94

ou76-Wow! Well done, sir, you are living the dream!

thanks...I was glad to share..I know absolutely zero about hunting Africa as all I have ever hunted is NA...got everything in NA 2 x plus by SCI standards...will be glad to help anyone who gives a shout...can only tell you what has worked for me...a special thanks goes out to Paul for posting all these pics...can sent more of other critters if you guys want to see...good hunting guys!!

Awesome stuff right there....those bears are slammers...all of them!! Well done! Keep them coming!! Great rams!!

Dump all the rifles and get something like an ABolt in 300WSM with Ziess on top.

Thanks...will have to scan some more pictures and then email them to Paul...in my opinion there is no hunting in the world like North America...and the Great Bears are the #1 NA game animal with Sheep a close 2nd!!

Nice!...have you taken many deer and elk?

Just start a photobucket account....if you can scan you can store your scans in there and just post them yourself. I'm a total dumbazz with computers...if I can do it anyone can.....grin!! Most of my photobucket stuff is old scans.

I know nothing about computers...my son and daughter taught me how to use Kodak Easy Share and email the pictures...so I doubt I can catch on very quick!!

I have taken all 3 species of NA Elk...2 Tule using my 270, 2 Roosevelts with my 300 Weatherby and 6 Rocky Mountains...2 each with the 300 Weatherby, 270 and 30-06....I shot my 1st Whitetail at 12 with a 30-30...since I have used the 270, 30-06 , 264 and 300 Weatherby for Whitails from South Texas to Canada in all I have been lucky enough to take some 35 Whitetails...I have not hunted much Mule Deer..killing 6 here in the Texas Panhandle ..4 with my 270 and 2 with my 30-06...I shot both my Couces Deer in Arizona using my 264...Blacktails in California and Oregon using my 270, Skita Blacktails in Alaska using my 375 as we were on a Kodiak Bear hunt...I really like Moose hunting...I have been lucky enough to take a total of 9 so far and have drawn a Shiras tag in Wyoming this year after 12 years of applying...I like my 300 Weatherby for Moose but have killed 2 Moose with my 270 and 2 with my 30-06...the rest with my 300 Weatherby using 200 grain Noslers, BBC or Swift A Frames...All 10 of my Caribou have been laid to rest with my 270...

ou76,

Weidmannsheil on a singular accomplishment. NA 29 2x.

I have been receiving the pictures and the story. I see, Paul has already posted your pictures, as I was out timezone wise.

The story is very well written in my opinion.

Thanks and another welcome.

What an accomplishment, ou76, what an accomplisment...
My sincere congratulations!


Carl,
It does not make any difference, but it is not 25 different species/subspecies of big game in North America? I believe it was 27 before walrus and jaguar were excluded...



BBerg.

Alvaro,

I think 29 is correct - in any case, from ou76s story, he mailed me, I understand, that is what he took - twice.

OTOH, when you google you get contradicting evidence...

Wow! Fabulous!

Last year I had the opportunity to meet in Madrid another outstanding North American hunter, Dr. Bob Speegle.

When he had hunted the full NA Grand slam his friends asked him...

-Bob, what are you going to do now?

-Well... do it again, bow.

And he did. He explained to me he could only shoot his mountain grizzly after six trips, if I remember well, Twice he had the bear within the reach of his bow but could not release because of the alders.

People like him, and like ou76, I admire very much!

BBerg

ou76,
Simply outstanding! Thanks for sharing your pics. What did you come to trust in caliber and bullet combinations?

from an above post of ou76. Some info already in there.

Thanks...I began using the 270 as a kid in Oklahoma in 1962...at that time I had no idea who Jack O'Connor was.. once I began to read his info in Peterson Hunting I began to play around with handloading....my pre-64 Model 70 Featherweight shot the 130 Nosler at 100 yards to 1 inch groups using H4831 so I settled on that load and have never changed it...

My first trip to Alaska was 1984 for a Moose/Grizzly combo in the Alaska Range... I used a 338...I picked the wrong bullet for Grizzly..210 Nosler (BobHagel's favorite) and after that trip I switched to the 375 for bears using the 275 Bitterroot bullets.....had I used the 250 Nosler I may never had switched to the 375....but, it is interesting to note on 18 of my 23 NA bear hunts the guides have all carried 375 H&H as backups...
In my Pre-64 Model 70 my 375 H&H likes WW 760 for the Bitterroot and 4064 for the 250 Swift A Frame......

I got my German Mark V in 300 Weatherby, Pre-64 Model 70 in 30-06 and Model 788 in 223 in the 1970s...in my 30-06 I used H205 when it was available I now use RL19. In 300 Weatherby I use H870...and in my 223 I have used WW 748 and now use Benchmark...

I have played around with a lot of calibers the 22-250, 264, 257 Weatherby, 338 and 340 Weatherby...and these are all good calibers for NA and while the 264 and 257 Weatherby with 26 inch bbls may be flatter on paper I still prefer my 270 in the game fields...and no doubt Bob Hagel preferred the 340 Weatherby with the 210 Nosler as an all around (but Bob used the 250 Bitterroot when he went Brown Bear/ Grizzly hunting in Alaska) ...Elmer Keith liked the the 338s...but for me I like the combos as opposed to an all around..that way I can have more rifles!!

You bet Bob Speegle is one of kind...I know him as he is in our Dallas Safari Club...and is chairman of the Dallas Safari Club's Outstanding Hunter Award committee...and yes Bob took the NA 30 and NA 29... 2 times...once with his rifle ..the NA 30..and once with his bow...the NA 29..Bob is also a Weatherby Award winner, OVIS award winner...OVIS Super Slammer, ISHA Super Slammer just to name a few...I doubt in my lifetime there will ever be another hunter to do what Bob has accomplished..

Boone & Crockett recognizes 29 NA Game animals...It was 31 prior to Walrus and Jaugar being excluded...at one time it was 27...then Central Barren Caribou was added making 28 and then Tule Elk to make the current 29...

Couple more pictures

03 Grizzly


09 Black bear


"I took this picture in 2007 during a Moose hunt...in the area I was hunting the outfitter did not have a Grizzly tag for a nonresident...this is a 9 1/2 foot plus Grizzly....as far as I know he is still roaming the TAKU River in British Columbia!!"



Again, Thanks for sharing these pictures with us ou76

BBBBBBig BBBBBEAR!

I'm thinking ou76 should be eligible for some sort of lifetime achievement award

very rare to see a collection like that. Congratulations and I look forward to reading your stories.

Thanks but I am not in the same class as folks like Dr.Bob Speegle....

I don't know about that! you have some very impressive animals and i know for a fact that those sheep didn't come easy! nor the Big bears!

Wow, those are some impressive animals!! Congrats to you ou76, and welcome to the 'Fire.

wow what a great thread, thank you for joining the 'fire and big Paul, thank you for posting his pics.


this is good, really good, you have certainly taken some fine specimens sir


I'd ask you to adopt me, but you ain't gonna have a plug nickel left after alla that hunting, and that's as it should be! (grin)

tks again for sharing your experiences with us, and I'm sure I speak for others, it'd be cool if you have the time and inclination to give us a more detailed hunt report concerning some of your trophies. It can take you weeks, months or years depending on your available time, I know I'd read them.

Thanks...I am glad to be part of the 'Fire family!!

ou76,
You might want to sit down with a computer and start recounting all those hunts. Put in between two hard covers and find a publisher or self publish. There has to be a wealth of good reading to enjoy.
Thanks for the rifle/caliber info.

HA!! JY Jones wrote an excellent book about his NA hunts..."One Man, One Rifle, One Land"..JY took a Model 700 ADL in 30-06 using 165 Noslers and 200 Noslers and shot all of NA game animals under SCI classification "Trophy animals of North America".. which is basically the NA 29 with SCI sub species included along with Wolf, Alligator, Jaguar (darted in Mexico) and Walrus, ..unlike some of these other guys...JY is a writer that has actually done it in the game fields...He and I crossed paths on several NA hunts...it is a great book..very thick..558 pages..with lots of color pictures, details of the hunt and interesting comments regarding the species, area he hunted and the cultures and etc..it is published by Safari Press..JY sent me an autographed copy a few years back...but as far as his choice of rifle for Grizzly, Alaska Brown Bear and Polar Bear..
well I will stick to my 375 H&H with 275 Bitterroots!!!

To shed some light on the North American 29 as defined by Boone & Crockett and Safari Club International there are some minor differences in the species...so here we go:

Boone and Crockett currently recognizes the following North American game animals in the Boone & Crockett record book..ie..the North American 29...

Antelope
Bison
Mountain Goat
Cougar
Muskox
Dall Sheep
Bighorn Sheep
Stone Sheep
Desert Bighorn Sheep
Mule Deer
Whitetail Deer
Coues Deer
Columbia Blacktail Deer
Skita Blacktail Deer
Mountain Caribou
Wooland Caribou
Quebec Caribou
Barren Ground Caribou
Central Barren Ground Caribou
Canada Moose
Alaska Yukon Moose
Shiras Moose (USA only)
Black Bear
Grizzly Bear
Alaska Brown Bear
Polar Bear
Rocky Mouontain Elk
Roosevelt Elk
Tule Elk

to the above list SCI adds 6 species...Wolf, Arctic Caribou., California Bighorn, Eastern Canada Moose, Alligator and Coastal Black Bear...SCI produced DNA that the California Bighorn, Coastal Black Bear, Arctic Caribou and Eastern Canada Moose were seperate subspecies and thus were aded to the record book....in order to complete the NA 29 for SCI's " Grand Slam of NA 29" one can pick 29 of SCI's list as long as 4 species of sheep are included... Boone and Crockett refuses to accept the DNA of SCI and does not consider the Wolf or Alligator as a North American game animal...Boone and Crockett also does not count the Alberta Shiras Moose...ie..SW Alberta across the Montana border as a Shiras Moose....SCI does...JY Jones completed all of the above per SCI list using his old 30-06!!

Thank you for sharing those magnificent photos.

Thanks and will try and add more later..bears and sheep have been to me what elk and deer are to others...can't get enough...going for bear #20 this Fall and Moose # 10 in Alaska....and I am glad to be part of the'Fire family

For me there's two types of hunters. Sheep hunters and everybody else...so I understand!

ou76 (does that mean you're a Sooner, graduated in '76?),
Those were some magnificent animals! Dr. Jones lives just down the Interstate from me and I've always wanted to meet him. I really admire you guys that get out there and get it done. I, too have done some hunting in NA (certainly not in your league), but have decided that my interests, with my budget, are best served with sheep and goat hunts for now, but who knows what the future holds. Some of the most fun times for me on these hunts is to meet folks like you that have stories to tell.
I was just thinking that when ObamaCare blooms fully, maybe I'll move from Georgia to a place where the sheep actually live, so I can keep doing it. Just gotta get that last daughter through College!
Cheers,
Don

Oh, to answer the question, I use a NULA in .30-06, with Federal TSX 180gr. I've taken two sheep and a grizz and a couple of wolves and in all cases, it was over in an instant. The grizzly couldn't have perished faster if he was hit by lightening.
I changed my scope this year to a Swaro Z5 3.5-18X44 with BT.
Don

yep I am a Sooner graduated in 1973 and got my MBA in 1975 .. 76 was my football jersey number...

Forgot to mention, I know about college funds..I got my son through OU law school and daughter just graduated with her Doctor of Chircopractic and got her Texas licenses and etc...maybe now the kids are off the payroll but then here comes the grqandkids!! Never ends!!!

Wow, I'm just at the college stage, don't even want to think about weddings, and grandkids.........holy cow

Here is an AY Moose...

Alberta Whitetails

Cougar 2004..BC

Nice stuff!....I knew you could figure out the picture thing!

No wonder there's hardly any big moose left, you shot them all!! You've killed some dandy critters over the years ou76!

Tule Elk 2008 California

Rocky Mtn Elk 6x6

California Blacktail

ou76

What rifle and cartridge are you using for the plains game and thin skinned game?

Yukon Moose 1993 during an unsuccessful Fannin Stone hunt...

I like my Pre-64 Model 70 Featherweight in 270 with 130 Nosler backed by 61 grains of H4831...

I have also used Pre-64 Model 70s in 264 (26 inch bbl) with 140 grain Nosler and H870..and 30-06 (24 inch bbl) and 165 BBC with H205 and now RL 19.. ..my son uses my German Mark V in 257 Weatherby with 115 Noslers and RL22..all have worked well on NA medium size game for us....the Yukon Moose was shot with my 270 during an unsuccessful Fannin Sheep hunt in the Yukon... ....

thanks!

No problem...it'll be 50 years this December since I shot my 1st Whitetail with a 30-30 Winchester at age 12...I then used that same Model 94 to shoot my 3 NA Cougars. Over the years I have played with a lot of cartridges and bullet combos but for me I settled on the following:

270 130 Nosler
30-06 165 BBC
300 Weatherby 165 BBC, 200 BBC, 200 Nosler and 220 Nosler
375 H&H 275 BBC

in the 264 when I used it it was a 140 Nosler...

I never tried the newer combos and cartridges such as the short mags ...an ol' dog can't learn new tricks...and I am sure they will work just fine...as will the 7 mag, 338, 300 Winchester & etc...whatever you shoot well...put it in the vitals and it will do the job on NA game...Good Hunting!!

One thing I noticed in all your pics is that you are smiling and actually enjoying your hunts.

Not use to seeing that on this here and other sites, most guys that post pics think they have to look pissed off to give them that tough guy demeaner.

Hunting is suppose to be fun and to get a trophy is a great accomplishment to the adventure...you have to love it to live it...right??

ou76,

Man, you have some awesome trophy's.......congrats.....

As to the topic of this thread....I would use my custom 7WSM, shooting 150 Sciroccos for sheep. Built on a 700 action, it has been highly mod'd and lightened, and sits in a Micky mtn rifle stock.

With a Zeus Conquest 3x9x40, it is 7lbs all loaded up and ready to hunt.

Option #2 would be a slightly heavier GAP built 700 in 300WSM, shooting a 165 Scirocco. Stocked in a Bansner, it is about 1/2 lb. heavier than my 7WSM.

If there was grizz issues, I could substitute partitions in either. If griz was on the menu, I'd load 180 Partitions in my 300WSM and rock on.

That said, I haven't been on a sheep hunt, but did do a combo Mtn Goat/Moose hunt in BC and brought my 9lb 300RUM. It wasn't a joy to haul up the mountains for my 'Goat, but I survived....


350yards, 300RUM, 200 Accubond....DRT....major league fall down the mountain to the shale slide!!!

Tony

Nice Goat you got in BC..CONGRATS!!! ANY Goat is a trophy!! Yes a 9 pounder hauling around in the mountains is a load that is one reason I like my old Featherweight Model 70 for sheep hunting....you will like using your lighter rifle for sheep...a friend of mine has a lightweight 7 mag built on Model 700 action he uses the 160 Nosler Partition and has taken all of the NA rams, a Marco Polo, and other Asia sheep on his way to the World Slam of Sheep...I think he has taken either 14-16 different species of sheep...last Fall he took the new world record Arctic Caribou with his ol' beat up 7 mag and the 160 Noslers... where are you planning to go for your 1st ram?? I would consider the NWT for Dalls...

Forgot to add, do a horseback hunt or a backpack hunt for best results...on my 3 NWT Dall hunts I used horses...great experience.....hunting rams the classic way...in tne NWT I have take 2 40+ and a 38...got sunked once as we were after a 42+ that was spotted the year before as we left and then as the horses were trailed in in July ...we never found him...no one else did either not even the fellas who opt to use 'copters and spend $$$$$ to get to the top of the mountains!!!

ou76,

Yes, I am planning on a sheep hunt, and thanks for the advice on the NWT....

Since I did the 'Goat hunt in 2004, things greatly changed for me, physically that is. Had an accident, broke my back, and had back surgery this spring.

Doing much better due to the surgery, but between being 52 and the back, a horseback hunt is going to be my priority.

So the next time I decide to tackle the mountains, I WILL be reaching for the lightest rig in the gunsafe.....

BTW, keep the pics coming, your hunts and trophies are awesome.........

Tony

PS: Here is the moose I took on the BC trip:



He was a BIG old bull, actually going a little down hill. What he lacked in tines on top he made up for in spread....which was 59.5". Not bad for a canadian.

That is a NICE bull..CONGRATS!! I really like to hunt Moose...they are one of my favorite NA game animals...plus I love the meat!! I know what you mean about health...I had total knee replacements in 2007 and 2008...my ol' knees were worn out from 5 knee surgeries from my college football days and then bone on bone for way too many years...I have made only 2 trips since having them done..Tule Elk in 2008 and Coastal Black Bear in 2009......looking forward to this Fall and a Shiras hunt in Wyoming after 12 years of preference points and Brown Bear with Moose option in Alaska... when you decide on the Dall hunt let me know...in the NWT I have 3 of my 5 Dalls and 2 are over 40...

Real funny, I remember taking that bottom picture...ole "Blue" wasn't too thrilled about the load on his back !

The look on his face says WTF it's a long way back to the coral !!!

Tony

Any of the rifles you mentioned will work well for Dall Sheep. My first sheep hunt was with a 270 and i was fine until after i top a rise and a grizz was 30 yds away digging up a ground squirrel. I looked at the 270 and at the grizz and my father 50 yds behind me with a 338, it wasnt a warm fuzzy feeling. A 100 yards away id of felt ok, 30 yds not so good. A 270 will do the job but there is no room for error. Since than my rifle of choice for all my Alaska hunting has been the 8mm Rem Mag. I took a nice Dall out of Tok shooting a 180 grain Nosler Ballistic tip. Id go with your 300 but all will work.

300 weatherby ultralite

.243 is a dandy!

To bad ou76 left the Fire.

The real deal for sure.

Might be late but I would go with the 300 wby. You spent a boat load of money and time. Take the one that will get the job done when things are tough or when things are perfect. Besides you might run into a bear that wants your sheep.

Was thinking the same thing after this thread came back up.

All would do the job with good placement. I like the Sako. Compared to antelope, white tails and even large mule deer sheep are stout and are hit at long ranges. The Weatherby is a great cartridge provided you shoot it well.

And I was just getting excited by all of those pictures to go look for his hunt reports. Did he ever post any here?

There you go.

I could not of said it any better.

Good luck on your hunt.

I would take the 7-08 and load 120 gr Barnes TTSX over some Varget and go kill stuff .

A 6.5x284 shooting 129 gn conventional bullets on a short action and a light synthetic stock works well for sheep in the mountains, even for the long shots.

The 6.5/284 intrigues me...

Great caliber for plains and mouuntains, especially for the 'softer' game of moderate size. Antelope, sheep, most WD country - works very well.

I suspect it would serve in the 'light rifle' role very well in southern African hunting as well, though I've not used it there.

IMO 6.5-284 hunting rifles belong in SAs.

I agree with this post.

7mm STW Leupold 4.5x14x40 and a 139 Gr Hornady.

Eventually, I took the Rifles Inc. in 300 Wby. in 2010 and told about that trip in https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...4371335/Back_from_the_Brooks#Post4371335

So I had to try again and went back next year, in which I carried my Blaser K95 in 7x65R telling about that second hunt in
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...ck_from_the_Brooks_II_with_p#Post5568797

I believe that, within reason, almost any gun and cartridge is capable of doing anything and the best thing is carry the one that serves YOU better, the one you are more confident with and the one you shoot better.

Regards,

I'll have my Kimber Montana 7 WSM with me come August on my sheep hunt. And as of now, will probably keep using the Barnes 140gr TTSX handloads for it.

Any way to update your photos? Ou76 still around?

Although I've never been on a Dall Sheep hunt, of the rifles you listed, I would choose the Kimber in 7mm-08, if it's a good shooter. I know this doesn't matter to many, but I would definitely go for the CRF action. # 4, the Rifles Inc. custom, is likely built on a Rem 700 action and the .300 Wby packs a wallop. 7mm-08 is also a great caliber and would certainly get the job done. Regarding glass, a 3.5x10x40 would be my choice. But I'm no expert.

That's an easy choice for me.264 Win Mag.

If you can get picky about your dall sheep rifle, why not get picky about your tv

-

Still the right answer, 4.5 years later.
Too bad the damn photos got hijacked - would love to be able to see them on this old thread.

Here's the rifle my 25 y.o. son used this August in the Tok Mgmt Area (very eastern part of th AK range). Lucky dad got to go with. Kimber Montana - 300 WSM - 150 TTSX handloads, Leupy 3.5-10x40 VX-III (no scope failure here either Warne steel bases and rings. About 150 yd uphill shot - pretty low angle. Hit it twice before it went down for the count)

NICE!!!

Nice sheep, you did good.

High country, the closest you can get to heaven without dying.

This one.

The mountains made me a believer in Kimbers last Fall.





Not a sheep, but the country's equivalent, for sure.








FC

If they swapped headgear, NO ONE would mention sheep...

...until its time to eat.

Actually, my goat was pretty damn good.

I have had a lot of really good goat...

Sheep still tastes like, well, sheep... good, but not worthy of the hype...

Choices are many. We thought a 9 pounder was fine years ago, now sub 7 pounds is the standard. I would use what ever one you would want in your hands if facing a mountain grizzly. Sheep seem to die easy according to sheep hunters.

I think I would go with the one with the most reliable trigger and a bolt that would field strip with out tools. All my Mod. 70's fill the bill.

7-08, but I might be prejudiced, having shot my first two rams at about 20 yards and 50 yards, respectively, with a .243 that barely kept 5 under 2 inches for the last 40 years, until a couple months back I got her down to MOA by damn. Rather hunt with the .260 tho...

The 3rd year we hunted that place my wife took her ram with a 270 - at 35 yards..... Still have that rifle too, tho it's now a 30-06 with which I parked a caribou just today.

Knowing the range and your trajectory is more important than the caliber used. And in sheep hunting, light weight may well be too. Danged near anything will reach out with killing force well beyond 500 yards. If you can hit it properly.

Just yesterday, I whipped up a batch of Bart's chili using a round roast from the goat. It was every bit as tasty as using a choice chuck roast.






Still, I was sweatin' it pretty hard for a while, there: while I was browning the meat, the whole kitchen smelled like a wet horse. I definitely pick up the odor when I'm trimming roasts, forming burgers, or working with the steaks to marinate them. The cooked meat, however, has always tasted like really good beef, only with less fat. The steaks are on the chewy side, but the flavor is still excellent.

FC

Gonna disagree with you, Art.

Until sheep has been in the freezer several months, I can't taste mutton flavor. Neither can my wife, and she absolutely won't touch mutton. But then, sheep doesn't generally last "several months" around our place. We consider it the best wild meat we have taken. Based on taste, not hype.

Can't tell the difference between Dall sheep or Rocky Mt. goat taste either, tho all I have to judge that by is one 2 year old goat, and a nanny.

I suspect anyone that dislikes wild goat probably shot a big 'ol stink billy in rut.

Same here, if I do not admire what Im carrying I would just as soon not go.

Really? The hunt/trip boils down to what you carry?

I've carried that damned .243 on a lot of hunts, and enjoyed every one. The rifle was marginally adequate (It's a damned tool!!!!), but didn't make the hunt, or not.

Actually, a couple of those hunts are among the best, including my first and second full curl Dall rams.

Perspective Larry, it is all about perspective!

I have hunted ugly guns, but I sure enjoy the notion of having something to work with when the camera comes out.

20 YO pic 257 Ackley old Ram and a younger Kurt

Prefer a rifle that you can shoot well in steep country, eye cuts from a scope don,t help a hunt.

A ram and an old goat in one picture!!!