In a Remington 700 I would build a 338 RUM. I know Remington makes them but I don't like that big of rim on a 700 bolt face. I had one of the factory rifles and I could not get any speed at all out of it without massive pressure signs and the accuracy was not acceptable. I wouldn't even stay supersonic to a mile. You might consider a dedicated 300 RUM for the 230 Berger. I did one a year or two ago that is doing incredible things at long range and it's nipping at the 300 grain Lapua in energy. 230 grain bullets at 3200fps. Brass is seasonal but if you are patient it can be had.
If you really want a 338 Lapua I would sell the 700 and pick up a Stiller Tac 338 action. It makes for a very sweet 338 Lapua. I have one and have built many for others. Mine has a PacNor barrel on it and it is a tack driver if there ever was one. Keep an eye on the new Curtis action that Joel Russo is involved with. It's a 3 lug action and very well thought out.
So it has to be a .33 caliber 700 with no more than a 28" barrel for long range as possible. I stand by the 338 RUM. That will be a nice maxed out combination.
I had a factory 338RUM in here last week that he couldn't keep scope mounts on even with a Holland brake on it. He is a guide and frequently lets customers use it so it gets shot a lot. I think the light barrel was flexing the action and kept pulling the threads off the base screws and eventually the action. Not even a really heavy scope. He uses a VX3 6.5-20x50LRT on it. It is a light factory barrel and I suspect the Holland brake was flexing the barrel downward causing a tremendous vibration to transmit back through the action. We milled it for 8-40 screws to repair the damaged 6-48 holes and correct them to be aligned with the bolt raceway. Then custom fit the 8-40 screws so that it used 100% of all available threads. We pinned the rail front and rear with real tight fitting .094" hardened pins. Then epoxy bedded it to the action with no release agent. That ought to hold it. If not we will change the brake. Why the long story. I would think it over long and hard before putting a 338 Lapua in a 700 action. I personally think they are just too flimsy for this application.
Yours is a long story to suggest he go with a .340 Weatherby. Factory load with 250 grainers used to be 3,025 feet per second. That is what I got when I loaded for one so it must be true.
So it has to be a .33 caliber 700 with no more than a 28" barrel for long range as possible. I stand by the 338 RUM. That will be a nice maxed out combination.
I had a factory 338RUM in here last week that he couldn't keep scope mounts on even with a Holland brake on it. He is a guide and frequently lets customers use it so it gets shot a lot. I think the light barrel was flexing the action and kept pulling the threads off the base screws and eventually the action. Not even a really heavy scope. He uses a VX3 6.5-20x50LRT on it. It is a light factory barrel and I suspect the Holland brake was flexing the barrel downward causing a tremendous vibration to transmit back through the action. We milled it for 8-40 screws to repair the damaged 6-48 holes and correct them to be aligned with the bolt raceway. Then custom fit the 8-40 screws so that it used 100% of all available threads. We pinned the rail front and rear with real tight fitting .094" hardened pins. Then epoxy bedded it to the action with no release agent. That ought to hold it. If not we will change the brake. Why the long story. I would think it over long and hard before putting a 338 Lapua in a 700 action. I personally think they are just too flimsy for this application.
Good info, thank you.
It doesn't HAVE to be a 28" barrel but I'd want there to be a pretty good reason to go longer, and 50 fps doesn't count.
Should I just go straight to 8-40 on the holes with a big .33?
The point was the weakness of the action. Save the 8-40 for repair if ever needed. I would buy long 6-48 screws and be sure you have 100% thread engagement. The 6-48's are plenty to hold a scope. I like the pin thing. That just looked and felt like the right thing to do. It looked factory done. I don't think any screw alone will hold the action from severe flexing. A heavy barrel should also help dampen that issue.
Hi Rich, I like the 340Wby (actually all of them) but I am trying to get away from belts.
Yours is a long story to suggest he go with a .340 Weatherby. Factory load with 250 grainers used to be 3,025 feet per second. That is what I got when I loaded for one so it must be true.
I've not paid a lot of attention to the Weatherby's over the years... is brass generally available for the .340?
I want a big hammer, but accuracy is of course the #1 priority. I've heard the RUM, EDGE, and Lapua described as accurate cartridges (whatever that really means). Is the .340 in that group as well?
You might consider a dedicated 300 RUM for the 230 Berger. I did one a year or two ago that is doing incredible things at long range and it's nipping at the 300 grain Lapua in energy. 230 grain bullets at 3200fps. Brass is seasonal but if you are patient it can be had.
Not to derail my own thread, but a 300 RUM is in consideration as well. Did you throat that one specifically for the Bergers? How's the round count? Think it'll make it to 1000?
I have a 338 RUM. It shoots great, I had Mark Brown build it for me. It's a Remington 700 #4 Shilen barrel cut at 24". It's a great killer on game. Yet, so is my 30-06. That's prolly why I take my 06 hunting more often.
Life is what you make of it. Build your big 338 and have fun with it.
You might consider a dedicated 300 RUM for the 230 Berger. I did one a year or two ago that is doing incredible things at long range and it's nipping at the 300 grain Lapua in energy. 230 grain bullets at 3200fps. Brass is seasonal but if you are patient it can be had.
Not to derail my own thread, but a 300 RUM is in consideration as well. Did you throat that one specifically for the Bergers? How's the round count? Think it'll make it to 1000?
A 7 Rem Mag running 195 Bergers slaps the 30s around pretty good and there's not a .338 EDGE load that beats it by enough to warrant the additional recoil in my opinion, but I'm sure a hardened badass like yourself loves the slap of a 33 magnum on the chin.
Berger boxes are pretty easy to open though so it's a win/win.
I built a 340 Wby on a Rem 700 back in the early nineties before all the "long range rage" and didn't build it specifically with that in mind. Just a 26" tube with the overall idea of a portable (8.5 lbs), 500-yard, elk smack-down rifle which it surely was. Ended up shooting 210-gr TSXs at 3150 or so.
I'd look at the 338 RUM cartridge I guess and see if cases are somewhat obtainable and I don't know about that. The Lapua would work of course but so would the old Wby cartridge if given the right platform. And I'm sure you could go all esoteric with any number of wildcats.
Edit: 340 Wby brass is available and though my rifle wasn't "internet accurate" it would do five in a real 1.5" which for the intended game was ok. I would build more carefully and different now if building a thousand hard rifle.
...I'm sure a hardened badass like yourself loves the slap of a 33 magnum on the chin.
Berger boxes are pretty easy to open though so it's a win/win.
Tanner
That was mean. And I wish you boys would stop all the arguing about guns, it's so silly. After all, in this day and age, no one needs guns because no one really needs to hunt.
If I wanted to do this (I don't)....I'd take a hard look at the 340.My buddy's is sensationally accurate,actions to handle it are easy,and you can always make brass from anybody's 375 H&H stuff if so inclined.
12-15 pounds mountain ready sounds about right....
You might consider a dedicated 300 RUM for the 230 Berger. I did one a year or two ago that is doing incredible things at long range and it's nipping at the 300 grain Lapua in energy. 230 grain bullets at 3200fps. Brass is seasonal but if you are patient it can be had.
Not to derail my own thread, but a 300 RUM is in consideration as well. Did you throat that one specifically for the Bergers? How's the round count? Think it'll make it to 1000?
A 7 Rem Mag running 195 Bergers slaps the 30s around pretty good and there's not a .338 EDGE load that beats it by enough to warrant the additional recoil in my opinion, but I'm sure a hardened badass like yourself loves the slap of a 33 magnum on the chin.
Berger boxes are pretty easy to open though so it's a win/win.
Tanner
My thinking as well.
And, I agree with redneck on the trigger. (from the custom rifles thread) Jeff, if you're counting every nickel on this project, I'd start with figuring the worth of that trigger as $0.00.
The odd thing with 33's is folks want a larger bore but hobble it with lighter bullets (long range shooters in the know excluded). For hunting I have used the 33,35,36, and 37 calibers mainly on moose, all have been effective. I have settled on the 36/9.3mm with 286gr bullets. With a sight in 3" high at 100yards it is in the kill zone to ~250 yards. With my Leica range finder and CDS or M1 turret I can come up to at least 600 yards but mainly it is used for shots that may occur between 250 and 400 or so yards in all practicability. The power is there, ability to get on target is there, and recoil is much less than anything that burns 70grs of powder or more.
BTW, a 300 win mag set up properly is no slouch at extended ranges either.
I've hunted and worked with both the 340 Wby and the 338 Rum and both are excellent cartridges that will push the high BC/heavy .338 bullets to good velocities. I'd give the accuracy and velocity edge to the Rum but what advantage the Rum holds is certainly in the "noise".
Like Bob says, the ease of finding 340 Wby brass/ammo is much, much easier. 340 Wby cases can be readily made from 375 H&H brass, though I feel 8 Mag brass or 300 Wby brass is easier to use. One pass through the sizer die makes perfect 340 cases whereas 375 H&H cases need to be incrementally sized down or the case may collapse.
The 338 Edge uses 300 Rum brass and is a little more difficult to find.
Run a 338 Rum or 340 Wby in a 9 lbs. rifle and don't look back.
I want to use a Remington action so it needs to fit that.
What do you run? What WOULD you run, if building one in 2016?
.340 Weatherby with custom short throat (I think this is available, but I'm not 100% sure).
Bartlein or Schneider 1/9", varmint taper. I know you prefer Pac-Nor, but this is what I would do.
Holland radial brake
McMillan A-3 stock (fiberglass). One front stud for the bipod. A rear flush cup, maybe a front flush cup. Latigo sling set up to fit.
Standard (Wyatt's extended) box magazine with hinged floor plate. The .340 should feed fine in a LA Rem 700, which would all but eliminate the need for a detachable mag box (I don't think the 300 WM boxes work well with Weatherby cartridges because of the shoulder position/geometry. Again, not sure about that.)
Jeff, did I read you had recently put together a fairly heavy, LR oriented 7mm WSM? You might run the numbers for 195 Bergers and give them a go in your current rifle .....as the other fellas mentioned the larger 7s with these new bullets are right up there with the 338s, and using a currently owned rifle would let you experiment without spending a bunch of extra dough.
Like Bob says, the ease of finding 340 Wby brass/ammo is much, much easier. 340 Wby cases can be readily made from 375 H&H brass, though I feel 8 Mag brass or 300 Wby brass is easier to use. One pass through the sizer die makes perfect 340 cases whereas 375 H&H cases need to be incrementally sized down or the case may collapse.
Yup. CW is right.
Just used the 375H&H case to illustrate it can be done,but the others may be easier. My buddy used to form from 375H&h stuff,which is why I mentioned it. The 340 is based on the H&H case....I think it's just the 300 Weatherby necked up.
You might consider a dedicated 300 RUM for the 230 Berger. I did one a year or two ago that is doing incredible things at long range and it's nipping at the 300 grain Lapua in energy. 230 grain bullets at 3200fps. Brass is seasonal but if you are patient it can be had.
Not to derail my own thread, but a 300 RUM is in consideration as well. Did you throat that one specifically for the Bergers? How's the round count? Think it'll make it to 1000?
A 7 Rem Mag running 195 Bergers slaps the 30s around pretty good and there's not a .338 EDGE load that beats it by enough to warrant the additional recoil in my opinion, but I'm sure a hardened badass like yourself loves the slap of a 33 magnum on the chin.
Berger boxes are pretty easy to open though so it's a win/win.
Tanner
My thinking as well.
And, I agree with redneck on the trigger. (from the custom rifles thread) Jeff, if you're counting every nickel on this project, I'd start with figuring the worth of that trigger as $0.00.
Hey SKane! Long time.
I won't be using the trigger (really like the Timney CE) but it should be sellable. I sold an X-Mark years ago. Maybe the recall has changed that. Doesn't really matter anyway- if it ends up in my parts drawer, that's ok.
Guys........... I already HAVE, and really love, a heavier 7 mm magnum LR/target rifle. That's in addition to two other 7mm's.... I have drank the 7mm cool aid, bought the T-shirt, got the tattoo, renamed my first-born "Seven", told the wife to call my COCK!! Ol' Number Seven.... grin.... I love the thing. Just to attempt to put this to bed here's a pic. Look on the Blueprints thread on the Custom Rifles forum for specs.
This is a different project. Much bigger, heavier, will be braked, not a carry rifle per se. It may or may not make sense but that's a debate for a different day.
12-15 pounds mountain ready sounds about right....
Yikes! Bob, surely you jest. And you are! 😃 Gun bearers are not in the American tradition of mountain hunting
For the uninitiated here, I've found that with a classically styled stock (very little to no drop at the comb) with a good pad, recoil from a big 338 at around 8.5 lbs all up (in my experience the 340 Wby) is very tolerable with the motivation to shoot, shoot often, and work at it.
If not, forget about it, skip the big 30's too, and go to a big seven, or 6.5.
I worked with three Mark Vs in .340. The first guy wanted to use Nosler Partition 210s. I regularly got 3/4" three shot groups at 100 yards. The next one was a regular 1" shooter and the last one was always good for 1 1/4". The last two used Nosler Partitions 250 grainers.
To me the Mark V is a very good starting platform. My prefered rifle hss a Mark V.
In my RUM I could get a 250 gr Sierra to 3000 fps from a 26" barrel. In a 9lb rifle it was too much recoil for me. In your soon to be made rifle,which you say will be heavier and braked,recoil will not be a problem.
The load I used was H-1000,Rem 9 1/2 mag primer and Remington brass.
The .338 Norma Magnum will work better on a Remington 700 LA I believe. I did development on my gunsmith's personal rifle.
That said, I personally have no use for a .338 caliber rifle for anything including Long Range shooting. The Mashburn with the 195, the .300 with the 230 Berger will accomplish the same without the cost factor. You also can't use a .338 caliber cartridge for any competition I'm into....
Give me the speed you are getting from a WSM and I'll make a [bleep] "chart" and look at it. Satisfied?!
With that conceded this is a whole 'nuther type of beast. Stop trying to pigeonhole me back into a mid weight 7mm. I HAVE that. This Big .33 will take a while to put together; scoped it'll be a ~$4000 build. And those are American dollars, Jordan!
The Lite (that's my 7 WSM "Sendero Lite") has been and will continue to get the snot shot out of it. I LOVE that rifle and am very happy with it across the board. But this is something else. Around here they are colloquially called "Landing Rifles", as in logging landings. NOT a carry rifle. NOT a regular old hunting rifle. I've got those in spades. This is different.
Landing rifle or not, do you need to deliver that much payload downrange? The same heavy platform could be used to good effect launching smaller yet still high BC projectiles with reduced cost in several ways.
Need? No. A 300 RUM is also in consideration. Beyond that gets into pretty serious overbore.
Ok, unleash the damn hellhouds, here we go. This'll kill the thread.
I want to build a LR bull elk rifle. Yes I know I know I KNOW you don't "need" a .33 to kill a bull elk. Did I mention I know that? But I WANT one. If it's braked anyway the recoil isn't a factor. Cost per round, likewise, plus the .33 bore will likely double the useful barrel life of a Big 7.
Not a NEED guys. I know this. A WANT. A toy. Something fun to put together in 2016/17 while I wait for the tag.... for the area I saw big bulls... several of them.... in an area with legit LR opportunities.... for ONCE....
Hey, don't let the nay-sayers persuade you. Go all the way or go home, the "pip-squeak" rounds (.223 thru 7mm) are fun and all, but after 1200 yds my LR 300 Winny had trouble consistently hitting targets. But my 338 Rum squirting the 300 Sierra had no problems on target at REAL distances between 1600 and 2300 yards. AND! It made a very pronounced "OMG! Did you hear that!" impact downrange.
If you want enough energy to drop the rock of Gibraltar into the ocean, then go 338 Rum or Edge.
Nothing is more fun except maybe a 378 Wby rockin' and rollin' downrange while distorting the "space & time continuum".....
I'd go with the .338 Edge set up for 300gr Bergers. While I've got 300 pieces of virgin .300 ultra brass on hand and Rem brass does become available sporadically I believe Defensive Edge carries Edge brass in stock. Talk to Shawn Carlock.
Like Bob says, the ease of finding 340 Wby brass/ammo is much, much easier. 340 Wby cases can be readily made from 375 H&H brass, though I feel 8 Mag brass or 300 Wby brass is easier to use. One pass through the sizer die makes perfect 340 cases whereas 375 H&H cases need to be incrementally sized down or the case may collapse.
Yup. CW is right.
Just used the 375H&H case to illustrate it can be done,but the others may be easier. My buddy used to form from 375H&h stuff,which is why I mentioned it. The 340 is based on the H&H case....I think it's just the 300 Weatherby necked up.
Easy. Used Rem 300 Wby cases to go to one-pass 340s.
The big 33's are like a shut-down corner in the NFL--they shut down bull elk "out in the flat." But you have to be able carry it up the hill and you have to be able to shoot it.
Well, see, that's the thing. When you've seen bull elk swat away 7mm's at long range like an annoying deer fly, it leaves quite an impression!
<grin>
Well, JB puts up those videos of elk getting poleaxed by 6.5's w/Bergers, so clearly, the bullet, and the nut behind the butt (placement) are a huge part of the equation. But a 300 gn .338 cal bullet has got to leave a pretty good mark. I hope to find out.
I grew up in Socorro but I had to google Mesquite. We used to roam around the Gila a lot and hit Elephant Butte a few times, but I don't think I ever got south of Las Cruces. Mostly I was up in central and northern NM. I really want to get back down there. She holds a piece of my heart....
But my 338 Rum squirting the 300 Sierra had no problems on target at REAL distances between 1600 and 2300 yards. AND! It made a very pronounced "OMG! Did you hear that!" impact downrange.
That is very impressive. How fast are you driving 300 grain SMK's to reach 2300 yards out of an 338 RUM?
Yeah,I know it won't fit in a Remington 700,.532" vs. .590". But,damn it'll be something very different.
And Quality Cartridge even makes the brass. You will have to wait for it though,not exactly a bunch of .338-378 K.T.'s out there.
One of my big 33's is a 338-378 WBY Elk, had it built over 25 years ago before I ever heard of the Lapua, RUM, or Allen Mags, hell, they may have not even been invented yet.
Mine wears a 2.5-10x42 Nightforce compact and fires 300 gr Accubonds to 3000 fps through a 28" Shilen stainless match barrel, it's a 10lb hunting rifle that you can carry on a hunt quite easily, and it may go without saying, those 338 cal. 300 gr Accubonds hit DAMN hard way out there.
Yeah,I know it won't fit in a Remington 700,.532" vs. .590". But,damn it'll be something very different.
And Quality Cartridge even makes the brass. You will have to wait for it though,not exactly a bunch of .338-378 K.T.'s out there.
First off the rim size is the same as a 338 Lapua and I have a 338 Lapua built on a 700 action. The case capacity is close to the same. I also have seen 30/378' built on a 700 action.
But my 338 Rum squirting the 300 Sierra had no problems on target at REAL distances between 1600 and 2300 yards. AND! It made a very pronounced "OMG! Did you hear that!" impact downrange.
That is very impressive. How fast are you driving 300 grain SMK's to reach 2300 yards out of an 338 RUM?
I push them to about 2800 FPS out of my 338 Lapua. The case capacity is about the same.
Yeah,I know it won't fit in a Remington 700,.532" vs. .590". But,damn it'll be something very different.
And Quality Cartridge even makes the brass. You will have to wait for it though,not exactly a bunch of .338-378 K.T.'s out there.
First off the rim size is the same as a 338 Lapua and I have a 338 Lapua built on a 700 action. The case capacity is close to the same. I also have seen 30/378' built on a 700 action.
Yup,you're correct. Remington even makes a .338 Lapua.
I grew up in Socorro but I had to google Mesquite. We used to roam around the Gila a lot and hit Elephant Butte a few times, but I don't think I ever got south of Las Cruces. Mostly I was up in central and northern NM. I really want to get back down there. She holds a piece of my heart....
Hunted elk and deer in the Gila and Lincoln NF. Fished in the Caballo and Elephant Butte quite a bit. Never hunted big game in Northern New Mexico.
Yeah,I know it won't fit in a Remington 700,.532" vs. .590". But,damn it'll be something very different.
And Quality Cartridge even makes the brass. You will have to wait for it though,not exactly a bunch of .338-378 K.T.'s out there.
First off the rim size is the same as a 338 Lapua and I have a 338 Lapua built on a 700 action. The case capacity is close to the same. I also have seen 30/378' built on a 700 action. [/quote
338-378 is a recipe for disaster in a 700. Seen action stretch and bolts come apart on that combo
Yeah,I know it won't fit in a Remington 700,.532" vs. .590". But,damn it'll be something very different.
And Quality Cartridge even makes the brass. You will have to wait for it though,not exactly a bunch of .338-378 K.T.'s out there.
First off the rim size is the same as a 338 Lapua and I have a 338 Lapua built on a 700 action. The case capacity is close to the same. I also have seen 30/378' built on a 700 action. [/quote
338-378 is a recipe for disaster in a 700. Seen action stretch and bolts come apart on that combo
Only if over loaded and or built incorrectly. I've seem the full length 338/378 work just fine in a 700 action.
When Rem marketed the M-700 in 338 Lapua they tested to 100,000 psi. But people overload wildcats and shoot a lot of ammo through them and then blame the action.
The Rum and Lapua duplicated 338/378 Kt ballistics in available cases.
Jeff get an action that is designed for the bigger cartridges,just. Because some of them will work in a 700 doesn't mean it's the best or safest way to go!
Hmm. A late push against the M700 action. Couple thoughts there--
-Yes. I believe you guys that it's not the "best" for a truly big cartridge.
-even though a rifle like this is the very definition of "magnumitis", I don't in any way need the biggest baddest out there. Don't need it practically and don't need it to fulfill some sort of desire. A little pipsqueek like the RUM or EDGE will suffice.
-again it's contradictory because you SHOVEL money at this type of rifle, but keeping costs contained matters here. A Rem700 action that I do the work on myself is one big way to do that. SWFA instead of NF is perhaps another. HS stock with a cheekpiece strapped on rather than one of those wacky adjustable stocks.... Etc.
-the M700 is the devil I know in terms of aftermarket parts. The stock and the trigger especially.
But just to keep an open mind about using a different action, the timeline dictates I get the barrel ordered ASAP and I'm planning on doing that after I hopefully survive the holidays. As I look out the window, at the falling snow, and contemplate the 8 hour drive I'm about to embark on, that's not a given <grin>. But assuming I do survive, if I DID decide to use a different action, would that in any way change the barrel blank I order?
On that note my next question is about the barrel.... if we assume an EDGE @ 28" plus brake, for the moment, what twist would you advise? Number of lands/grooves? Does that change for say a Lapua?
The Rum cases will be fine in a 700, and you should be able to find a donor fairly cheap, twist's you should be looking at a 10" depending on bullet choice!
Yeah,I know it won't fit in a Remington 700,.532" vs. .590". But,damn it'll be something very different.
And Quality Cartridge even makes the brass. You will have to wait for it though,not exactly a bunch of .338-378 K.T.'s out there.
First off the rim size is the same as a 338 Lapua and I have a 338 Lapua built on a 700 action. The case capacity is close to the same. I also have seen 30/378' built on a 700 action. [/quote
338-378 is a recipe for disaster in a 700. Seen action stretch and bolts come apart on that combo
Only if over loaded and or built incorrectly. I've seem the full length 338/378 work just fine in a 700 action.
When Rem marketed the M-700 in 338 Lapua they tested to 100,000 psi. But people overload wildcats and shoot a lot of ammo through them and then blame the action.
The Rum and Lapua duplicated 338/378 Kt ballistics in available cases.
I seen alot of 700 action with streched received and bolts locked up due to blown primers. There not enough meat on the bolt head after opening it up to .580, or .588 for the LM. I used BAT action for my 338-378 nd 338 Lapua mag
Yeah,I know it won't fit in a Remington 700,.532" vs. .590". But,damn it'll be something very different.
And Quality Cartridge even makes the brass. You will have to wait for it though,not exactly a bunch of .338-378 K.T.'s out there.
First off the rim size is the same as a 338 Lapua and I have a 338 Lapua built on a 700 action. The case capacity is close to the same. I also have seen 30/378' built on a 700 action. [/quote
338-378 is a recipe for disaster in a 700. Seen action stretch and bolts come apart on that combo
Only if over loaded and or built incorrectly. I've seem the full length 338/378 work just fine in a 700 action.
When Rem marketed the M-700 in 338 Lapua they tested to 100,000 psi. But people overload wildcats and shoot a lot of ammo through them and then blame the action.
The Rum and Lapua duplicated 338/378 Kt ballistics in available cases.
I seen alot of 700 action with streched received and bolts locked up due to blown primers. There not enough meat on the bolt head after opening it up to .580, or .588 for the LM. I used BAT action for my 338-378 nd 338 Lapua mag
A Mauser has no meat around the case head and none is needed.
Again the work must be performed correctly and since Remington has marketed and sold the 338 Lapua which has the same case head that rather prove the 700 is adequate by Remington's calculations.
The Rem 700 action is just fine for a big 33. You can add a different extractor if you wish; i.e., a Sako or AR type as well as a 3-pos safety; twink or add an after market trigger; "true" the barreled action. You can also go to PGT and get a one-piece bolt with a tactical knob for ergo's if you want. The 700 is probably one of the most practical solutions. Get a quality barrel at your twist and have at it.
If I was going to use a Remington 700 action for a 338 built then I would build a 338 Edge or a 340Wby but 300 ultra cases are cheaper than Wby. and just be done with it.
[quote=jwp475][quote=elkhunternm]Why not a .338-378 K-T.
Yeah,I know it won't fit in a Remington 700,.532" vs. .590". But,damn it'll be something very different.
And Quality Cartridge even makes the brass. You will have to wait for it though,not exactly a bunch of .338-378 K.T.'s out there.
First off the rim size is the same as a 338 Lapua and I have a 338 Lapua built on a 700 action. The case capacity is close to the same. I also have seen 30/378' built on a 700 action. [/quote
338-378 is a recipe for disaster in a 700. Seen action stretch and bolts come apart on that combo
Only if over loaded and or built incorrectly. I've seem the full length 338/378 work just fine in a 700 action.
When Rem marketed the M-700 in 338 Lapua they tested to 100,000 psi. But people overload wildcats and shoot a lot of ammo through them and then blame the action.
The Rum and Lapua duplicated 338/378 Kt ballistics in available cases.
I seen alot of 700 action with streched received and bolts locked up due to blown primers. There not enough meat on the bolt head after opening it up to .580, or .588 for the LM. I used BAT action for my 338-378 nd 338 Lapua mag
A Mauser has no meat around the case head and none is needed.
Again the work must be performed correctly and since Remington has marketed and sold the 338 Lapua which has the same case head that rather prove the 700 is adequate by Remington's calculations.
[/quote
Yes but with a Mauser you don't have a barrel bolt counter bore that gives a chance for the thin metal on the bolt head to jam the action. Had seen this many times.
The Rem 700 action is just fine for a big 33. You can add a different extractor if you wish; i.e., a Sako or AR type as well as a 3-pos safety; twink or add an after market trigger; "true" the barreled action. You can also go to PGT and get a one-piece bolt with a tactical knob for ergo's if you want. The 700 is probably one of the most practical solutions. Get a quality barrel at your twist and have at it.
This is not rocket science.
I'd also add an external bolt release positioned aft of the standard factory bolt stop position, and a Wyatt extra long mag box. Personally I prefer the McM Rem Hunter stock for a build like this, HS doesn't impress me.
I would suggest a 9.375 to a 9.5 for the 300 grain Bergers. My personal Lapua has a 9.375 5 groove 30" long. It gets 2960 with RL33. It's on a Tac 338 single shot action. Very rigid and it shows on paper.
An aftermarket action doesn't change anything barrel wise if you don't want to. Depending on the action it will fit right into the 700 inlet. On the barrel I would measure the diameter of the lug if the action has one and make the shank the same size. I like as much support around the bigger cases as possible. 1.250 looks better than a 1.200" to me. If the lug is big enough even a 1.300" gives a lot of meat around the chamber and a nice big shoulder to tighten up against. Everything is geared towards making the barrel to action fit as solid as possible.
There is a new trigger with a roller search. I think it's called trigger tech. They are so new they won't start shipping till January. The cost is only $85. I let you know how it works next month
Trigger Tech has been sending out triggers for months. The next shipment will be sent out in January. And the price has gone up, IIRC. But they are worth it. I like them much better than a standard Timney, and about on par with Shilen.
My buddy gave me a heads-up on it, and I'm very glad he did. I tried a couple Jewell's and didn't like them. Too much movement before they break. Really like the Timney CE. Mine is set at 1.5 lbs.
HiredGun- thanks. I'll ask Pac-Nor what twists they'll do.
I'm thinking a Holland brake. Anyone got a take on that?
Of the last three Timneys I purchased three failed! The first two failed by not catching the firing pin so I could not fire the rifle. The next would not allow me to get the safety to work. Finally after a few minutes I got it to work, but when the moment of truth came and I was actually trying to kill a deer it also would not fire. After three or four times of lifting the bolt and squeezing the trigger it fired.
Maybe Timney and I will be like Burris and me. The customer service lady at Burris said, "You must be getting every reject we ever made."
The fellow at Trigger tech told me the roller trigger for the Remington is new and they have not shipped them before. At least that is what I understood him say.
Mine is a PacNor. Ask about my Straight Shooter #1 profile. I've used it on 6.5 up to .338. I't got an extra long shank to allow for a couple set backs if you want.
Ringman, that's me and Jewell I suspect. One of my two simply had creep you could SEE much less feel, and it just could not be adjusted out via screw or springs. The other one was better but I could still feel it moving before the seat released. Drove me batty. My favorite hunting trigger is the Kimber set real light, and the Timney CE is comparably clean and crisp...
HiredGun, I'll ask them about that. How fast does say an EDGE toast the throat? 1000 rounds? Have you had good luck setting back and re-chambering?
This is gonna be fun. I really enjoyed building the .223AI and 7 WSM, once I got the tooling all made and sorted out.
Sounds like I better try me some 195 Bergers in the WSM in the meantime.
It should be stated Timney treated me very well. The first two were on the same rifle and were replaced. The new one is waiting for the rifle to return from Twisted Barrel and then salt bath nitrided before it is put back in service. The third one I sold and purchased the Trigger Tech.
The more astute reader sees I can't play with either of my toys at this time.
Ringman, that's me and Jewell I suspect. One of my two simply had creep you could SEE much less feel, and it just could not be adjusted out via screw or springs. The other one was better but I could still feel it moving before the seat released. Drove me batty. My favorite hunting trigger is the Kimber set real light, and the Timney CE is comparably clean and crisp...
HiredGun, I'll ask them about that. How fast does say an EDGE toast the throat? 1000 rounds? Have you had good luck setting back and re-chambering?
This is gonna be fun. I really enjoyed building the .223AI and 7 WSM, once I got the tooling all made and sorted out.
Sounds like I better try me some 195 Bergers in the WSM in the meantime.
Thanks a bunch, guys. And Merry Christmas.
Buddy of mine keeps his EDGE at our range, anyone can shoot it if they wish.it has 1200 thru it and still shoots great..300gr SMK at around 2800 is its load..
Dont get shot much anymore..easy to match the performance for less..and steel plates ring just as well with half the payload.
I went 338RUM. 300gr Nosler custom comps. Very accurate. I bought a couple hundred brass 4 years ago when I first got the notion, a little tougher to find now.
I've never set one back for myself but if you are determined to get 1000 accurate rounds out of an Edge as a repeater it might be important.
I think the 195's are a good idea if you can stabilize them. If you want to go really long and break some rocks or trash some gongs give me a ring some time.
[quote=jwp475][quote=elkhunternm]Why not a .338-378 K-T.
Yeah,I know it won't fit in a Remington 700,.532" vs. .590". But,damn it'll be something very different.
And Quality Cartridge even makes the brass. You will have to wait for it though,not exactly a bunch of .338-378 K.T.'s out there.
First off the rim size is the same as a 338 Lapua and I have a 338 Lapua built on a 700 action. The case capacity is close to the same. I also have seen 30/378' built on a 700 action. [/quote
338-378 is a recipe for disaster in a 700. Seen action stretch and bolts come apart on that combo
Only if over loaded and or built incorrectly. I've seem the full length 338/378 work just fine in a 700 action.
When Rem marketed the M-700 in 338 Lapua they tested to 100,000 psi. But people overload wildcats and shoot a lot of ammo through them and then blame the action.
The Rum and Lapua duplicated 338/378 Kt ballistics in available cases.
I seen alot of 700 action with streched received and bolts locked up due to blown primers. There not enough meat on the bolt head after opening it up to .580, or .588 for the LM. I used BAT action for my 338-378 nd 338 Lapua mag
A Mauser has no meat around the case head and none is needed.
Again the work must be performed correctly and since Remington has marketed and sold the 338 Lapua which has the same case head that rather prove the 700 is adequate by Remington's calculations.
[/quote
Yes but with a Mauser you don't have a barrel bolt counter bore that gives a chance for the thin metal on the bolt head to jam the action. Had seen this many times.
Your full of more crap than a Christmas turkey. I guess I should have checked with you before I built mine.
I ran 1500 rounds through a 700 chambered in 7.82 Warbird. Now that 700 is chambered 30-338 Lapua AI. As far as my own use, the Lapua case in a 700 doesn't cause me concern. With that said, I would still recommend the 338 Edge, or 338 RUM. Less hassle, brass can be found, and a greater safety margin for those that need it. My 338 Edge wears a Broughton 10 twist, 5 groove, 30" and a Ross Schuler brake. I have been pushing 300 gr SMKs, at 2850 fps, with H1000 since it was put together, and I have no need to change. I haven't seen any advantage to going faster than 10 twist, but there really isn't a downside to 9.7, 9.5 or 9.3. I'm expecting to see 2K rounds without the need for a rebarrel.
Ringman, that's me and Jewell I suspect. One of my two simply had creep you could SEE much less feel, and it just could not be adjusted out via screw or springs. The other one was better but I could still feel it moving before the seat released. Drove me batty. My favorite hunting trigger is the Kimber set real light, and the Timney CE is comparably clean and crisp...
HiredGun, I'll ask them about that. How fast does say an EDGE toast the throat? 1000 rounds? Have you had good luck setting back and re-chambering?
This is gonna be fun. I really enjoyed building the .223AI and 7 WSM, once I got the tooling all made and sorted out.
Sounds like I better try me some 195 Bergers in the WSM in the meantime.
Thanks a bunch, guys. And Merry Christmas.
Good grief,if and when you ever shoot the throat and barrel out,just re-barrel. Rifle barrel companies make barrels everyday.
Ringman, that's me and Jewell I suspect. One of my two simply had creep you could SEE much less feel, and it just could not be adjusted out via screw or springs. The other one was better but I could still feel it moving before the seat released. Drove me batty. My favorite hunting trigger is the Kimber set real light, and the Timney CE is comparably clean and crisp...
HiredGun, I'll ask them about that. How fast does say an EDGE toast the throat? 1000 rounds? Have you had good luck setting back and re-chambering?
This is gonna be fun. I really enjoyed building the .223AI and 7 WSM, once I got the tooling all made and sorted out.
Sounds like I better try me some 195 Bergers in the WSM in the meantime.
Thanks a bunch, guys. And Merry Christmas.
Good grief,if and when you ever shoot the throat and barrel out,just re-barrel. Rifle barrel companies make barrels everyday.
True, but a 338 Lapua, Edge, or Rum al have very close case capacity and if the barrel is not over heated will give excellent barrel life. My gunsmith checked the throat in mine after 500 or so rounds and he thought it still looked brand new. But I donot over heat the barrel when shooting.
Here's an oryx I killed with a .338 A-Square and the Hannibal rifle. The rifle weighed 11 lbs as is in the pic. Took it elk hunting once. The scope is a Leupold 3.5-10x.
IIRC the load was 121 grs of AA-8700,250 gr NP,CCI 250 primer for a velocity of 3120 fps from a 26" barrel.
Here's a pic of an cow elk I killed with my .338 RUM. Used a 210 gr NP at 3180 fps. Scope is a Leupold 3x-9x.
Ringman, that's me and Jewell I suspect. One of my two simply had creep you could SEE much less feel, and it just could not be adjusted out via screw or springs. The other one was better but I could still feel it moving before the seat released. Drove me batty. My favorite hunting trigger is the Kimber set real light, and the Timney CE is comparably clean and crisp...
HiredGun, I'll ask them about that. How fast does say an EDGE toast the throat? 1000 rounds? Have you had good luck setting back and re-chambering?
This is gonna be fun. I really enjoyed building the .223AI and 7 WSM, once I got the tooling all made and sorted out.
Sounds like I better try me some 195 Bergers in the WSM in the meantime.
Thanks a bunch, guys. And Merry Christmas.
Good grief,if and when you ever shoot the throat and barrel out,just re-barrel. Rifle barrel companies make barrels everyday.
True, but a 338 Lapua, Edge, or Rum al have very close case capacity and if the barrel is not over heated will give excellent barrel life. My gunsmith checked the throat in mine after 500 or so rounds and he thought it still looked brand new. But I donot over heat the barrel when shooting.
I use the 300 grain SMK in my 338 Lapua in Lapua brass ahead of 92 grains of H-1000 lit by Federal 215M primers for 2800 FPS out of my Rem 700 action shot in a Rock Creek 5R cut riffled barrel 1 in 10 twist. I went with the Lapua because of the quality of Lapua brass and the basil ability of quality match grade factory ammo.
I like the 210/250 Nosler Partition for the elk and such. As the area I hunt 200+ yd shot is not likely.
Right now,I load the 250 gr NP in the RUM,it's only going 2865 fps and it's a wee bit more accurate than the 210 gr NP I used on the cow elk in the pic above. Could get more fps,then the recoil become unbearable. Matter of fact,did get 3000 fps from a 250 gr Sierra,I felt like a punching bag for a heavy-weight boxer.
No I haven't tried the Calvin yet, which is why I specified the standard Timney in my comparison I hear great things about the CE, but around here they're double the cost of the TT, and that's a hard pill to swallow considering how well the TT works.
No I haven't tried the Calvin yet, which is why I specified the standard Timney in my comparison I hear great things about the CE, but around here they're double the cost of the TT, and that's a hard pill to swallow considering how well the TT works.
Jeff look at the Vais brake, turn it down to match your barrel and your all set!
Forget the Vais brake if you ever plan on shooting from the prone position. Ask me how I know!
Shooting prone requires a brake without ports on the bottom, unless you like crap blow all over you and your scope. I made that mistake just once with a 300 Rum and a Vais brake.
Ok, Vais gets checked out for sure. I've always been anti-brake, being of the mindset that I didn't need no stinkin' fire breathing magnum that required a brake..... haha.... so I don't know much about them. I was thinking Holland just to keep it local but whatever is "best"... I do know I will be shooting it from prone primarily so whatever I get needs to vent up and sideways but not down.
(Total side note: one RUM action donor candidate locally is a consignment 300 RUM LSS that's been Magna-Port'ed. If I went that route I'd at least shoot the damn thing on the off chance it had the kind of accuracy I need for this rifle.... being bought as a donor would GREATLY increase those odds, of course <g>.... so my question is, how well does Magna-Porting work? To be clear, the Big .33 is getting a BRAKE.)
I have never been too impressed with magna-porting, it does have a good effect on muzzle rise but not near the recoil reduction of a good brake. the worst thing is that it is cut into the lands and grooves of the barrel
The Holland Brake will work. For long range prone shooting a side port brake is the way to go with no ports on the bottom or top for that matter. A big 338 with a good brake will make accuracy much easier. If you run a long barrel (I went with 30") the exit pressure will be reduced and noise level will be greatly reduced.
The Holland Brake will work. For long range prone shooting a side port brake is the way to go with no ports on the bottom or top for that matter. A big 338 with a good brake will make accuracy much easier. If you run a long barrel (I went with 30") the exit pressure will be reduced and noise level will be greatly reduced.
Howdy John! Yeah, you've been preaching a brake for as long as I've been paying attention. One HUGE side benefit will be being able to see my hits/misses. I'm usually alone and that can be a problem with my other rifles. Where I shoot, there's usually forest "duff" around my targets, as opposed to dry dirt or gravel, so misses often just vanish into the debris without even a puff of dust or a disturbed spot in the dirt to show where the bullet strike was.
It wouldn't surprise me if I ended up retrofitting a removable brake onto my heavy 7WSM for just that reason.
I should at least consider going 30" on the barrel I suppose. Ugh. I hate long barrels. With this rifle, though, I'm gonna just step WAY out of my comfort zone, and just let you guys tell me what's "best", and give that a try. Cause I can be a wee bit stubborn otherwise.
A long barrel in my experience doesn't hurt on a dedicated long range rifle. A big 338 that burns north of 90 grains of powder has a lot of gas that has to exit, a longer barrel makes this much more pleasant.
One doesn't not need much muscle tension to shoot them with a brake.
A brake on your 7 will be great appreciated by you, once you try it.
Thanks Shane. Up in WA at my mom's.... my brother is here with his brand-new baby. Is there anything better than a new baby nephew at Christmas? I don't think so!
Plus I get to hand him off when he delivers an xmas package <g>.
Ordering the barrel first thing in 2016, that'll take a few months, so I can get the other stuff figured out and bought/ordered while I wait. Would like to have it up and running by spring. The heat of summer is not good shooting around here (for me) so if I miss my spring/early summer window I'm hosed until fall, barring unseasonal cool weather in July/August. I hate shooting in the heat. I get shaky if nothing else.
I used a Rock Creek 5R Carbon Wrapped by ABS, with a 5X25X56 S&B scope and bipod I am about 13 pounds all up. I also went with Seekins detachable Bo's magazine that allows loading out to 3.9" cartridge over all length. The R-700 action is very easy to lengthen the bolt throw on.
Scope will be hotly (internally) debated for some time since it comes down the timeline a ways. If funds allow, probably a NF. If not, if I was buying today, a SWFA @ $1300. If even that is out of reach I'll bump my Zeiss 6.5-20 over and use that while I save my pennies.
But that's many moons away from being a hot issue.
Scope will be hotly (internally) debated for some time since it comes down the timeline a ways. If funds allow, probably a NF. If not, if I was buying today, a SWFA @ $1300. If even that is out of reach I'll bump my Zeiss 6.5-20 over and use that while I save my pennies.
But that's many moons away from being a hot issue.
I was only giving my specs so as to get an idea of the weight of the rifle. Nightforce are excellent long range scopes. You won't need your spotter with the 5X25 S&B if that matters to you.
I heard Mike Rock and ABS had a big falling out, is now called Proof Research and they dont use Rock Creek barrels anymore.
Whether or not they use Rock Creek barrels was not my point. The Carbon wrapped barrel save weight yet maintain stiffness. I know that a cut barrel is preferred for wrapping.
That was my thinking going in based on conversations and searches and advice I've received in the past, but I'm interested in hearing all options.... this is uncharted waters for me and I'd like to avoid a head-slapper down the road if that makes sense.
Clearly, a Lapua can work in a M700 but I don't think I want to go there.
The .340 Weatherby has real merit as shown by some posts here... I am biased against Weatherby for reasons I cannot really put into words. I think it's because I associate them with big, glossy rifles from the 70's, when they were bringing hyper-magnum performance to more or less regular hunting rifles. I've never seen the need for a big magnum in a regular hunting rifle, in fact like many right here on this thread, I've probably outright mocked the notion! BUT, for what I'm wanting to build here, the only logical knock I could come up with against the Bee is the belt, and before we go down that road, I understand it's a non-issue for the handloader. So there's really nothing I can come up with against it, yet, I think I'd rather do a RUM or EDGE.
In the last year I'll have built a .223AI, a heavy-ish 7 WSM, and then next up, a big braked beast. Look at ME getting out of my comfort zone and listening to you guys!
Ok, back to trying to get the quad-coptor drone thingie I got my other nephew up and flying. Great family day here- hope it for all y'all as well!
From a ballistics stand point the Rum, Edge, Lapua are all practically equal. But the other two can not equal the quality of the 338 Lapua brass quality and that is what I based my decision on.
I built a 340 Wby with a Schneider barrel. If you are stuck on a Remington action, there is not a lot of room for those RUM cases. I modified a Sako Finnbear action and I can load 3.85" rounds into my magazine. I have a reamer that is throated for 300 grain Sierras if you want to borrow it. I get 3000 fps easy with both Magpro and R17 using 250 grain Berger OTMs. I can't shoot the 300s since my barrel is a 12 twist. If I had to do it again , I would get a 10 twist. I did the 12 as I never intended it to be a long range rifle but wanted the reamer set up so I could with a different barrel and stock. Mine weighs 8# without a scope. I shoot it with no sissy pad and I won't own a muzzle brake. If it had a 2" longer barrel that was heavier you could get it to 10# pretty easy. It would be a pussy cat then!
I built a 340 Wby with a Schneider barrel. If you are stuck on a Remington action, there is not a lot of room for those RUM cases. I modified a Sako Finnbear action and I can load 3.85" rounds into my magazine. I have a reamer that is throated for 300 grain Sierras if you want to borrow it. I get 3000 fps easy with both Magpro and R17 using 250 grain Berger OTMs. I can't shoot the 300s since my barrel is a 12 twist. If I had to do it again , I would get a 10 twist. I did the 12 as I never intended it to be a long range rifle but wanted the reamer set up so I could with a different barrel and stock. Mine weighs 8# without a scope. I shoot it with no sissy pad and I won't own a muzzle brake. If it had a 2" longer barrel that was heavier you could get it to 10# pretty easy. It would be a pussy cat then!
A Rem 700 action can easily accept a 3.9" loaded length with Seekins detachable box magazine.
I built a 340 Wby with a Schneider barrel. If you are stuck on a Remington action, there is not a lot of room for those RUM cases. I modified a Sako Finnbear action and I can load 3.85" rounds into my magazine. I have a reamer that is throated for 300 grain Sierras if you want to borrow it. I get 3000 fps easy with both Magpro and R17 using 250 grain Berger OTMs. I can't shoot the 300s since my barrel is a 12 twist. If I had to do it again , I would get a 10 twist. I did the 12 as I never intended it to be a long range rifle but wanted the reamer set up so I could with a different barrel and stock. Mine weighs 8# without a scope. I shoot it with no sissy pad and I won't own a muzzle brake. If it had a 2" longer barrel that was heavier you could get it to 10# pretty easy. It would be a pussy cat then!
Likewise, if you want to borrow a 7 WSM OR .223AI reamer & gauges....
Maybe it's dumb to be hung up on a M700 action. It's just.... well, you know. Much simpler.
A Wyatt's gives 3.82" COAL..... Is that sufficient?
You could certainly go with a Wyatt. I wanted to seat the 300 SMK out far enough to allow the boatail to be located at the shoulder neck junction in order to avoid the need to turn necks because of the doughnut formed there by resizing. Without seating far enough to get the boatail in this location uneven neck tension is created unless one turns the necks. I wanted it simple but effective.
That's a cool rifle. I like the XCR coating. I'd be concerned it wouldn't shoot to the standard that a LR rifle needs to; I mean it might, but it might not.
John, the rifle Mike linked to, above, is a factory Rem Lapua with a detachable magazine in a B&C Tactical stock. Don't know if it's a Seekins... So, when using a box magazine with a M700, does the mag latch onto the action somehow or does it just latch into the stock?
Cant believe you people are interested in coal with Wyatts or Seekins mag boxs....MAN up shoot a single shot and make the first shot count.
Most of my LONG RANGE rifles are single shot bolt action, never felt at a disadvantage to someone who had to have longest mag box on planet
I never felt at a disadvantage by having a repeater either. Not sure how you come up with most long range rifles are single shots since a lot of magazine options are sold and available. I have nothing against a single shot
My 340 Wby was never intended to be a long range rifle, it was intended to be a heavy hitting 500 yard elk rifle. I bought a bunch of Norma factory ammo loaded with 250 grain Woodleighs and they were slightly too long for my magazine. I took the magazine, cut it apart, TIG welded it back together with a spacer and then opened up both ends of the action as much as I dared to give me max operating length. IF I were starting out to build a big 33 from scratch for a DEDICATED long range rig I would use one of the custom actions that are built a little longer so that I wasn't handicapped from the onset. I would use either the 338 Edge or 340 Wby. I can't justify the $2.50 a pop brass for the Lapua when it isn't any faster. I met a guy that was really into long range bear hunting and he had Kirby Allen build him a 338 Edge with a 30" barrel. It was a #7 or so fluted barrel with an A5 stock. It weighed like 14 lbs. I wouldn't carry that hunting. He was shooting 300 grain Bergers at like 2900 if I recall. It was a real hammer. He had killed deer to 1200 yards and bears to 1050. There is a lot to be said about the simplicity of the 340 Wby. Brass is of excellent quality and fairly easy to come by. It uses a normal magnum bolt face. No reason you can't make a 338-375 Ruger or whatever they are called. Probably has the same capacity and would fit the magazine a lot better too.
If your buddy was getting 2900 FPS with a 338 Edge and 300 trainers then he was leaning on it rather heavy. Shawn Carlock came up with the Edge, he also built my 338 Lapua. Shawn's load with a 300 SMK is 92 grains of H-1000, that is the same load that I shoot in my Lapua.
Plenty of these rifles are single shots and for good reason. Less cost, less fuss about COAL and more receiver to stock engagement.
My own 338 is built on an short action single shot. It sounds crazy? But with just an small amount of use I'm not handicapped for follow ups. I just wanted the most rigid and least costly, simpliest path. Single shots aren't for everyone's liking but it can be an reasonable alternative and they can have advantages.
Contrary to popular belief, everybody on the Campfire has made mistakes at the loading bench, shooting range and in the field. Your mistake was doing it in front of your good friend Shrapnel.
Contrary to popular belief, everybody on the Campfire has made mistakes at the loading bench, shooting range and in the field. Your mistake was doing it in front of your good friend Shrapnel.
Contrary to popular belief, everybody on the Campfire has made mistakes at the loading bench, shooting range and in the field. Your mistake was doing it in front of your good friend Shrapnel.
He didn't do a very good job of keeping it on the down-low.
Contrary to popular belief, everybody on the Campfire has made mistakes at the loading bench, shooting range and in the field. Your mistake was doing it in front of your good friend Shrapnel.
If your buddy was getting 2900 FPS with a 338 Edge and 300 trainers then he was leaning on it rather heavy. Shawn Carlock came up with the Edge, he also built my 338 Lapua. Shawn's load with a 300 SMK is 92 grains of H-1000, that is the same load that I shoot in my Lapua.
Not my buddy, but rather a guy that was invited to present out our predator club monthly meeting. Maybe the barrel was 32" long- it was freaking long! I could be misquoting him too.
What would be a reasonable velocity for a 338 Edge with a 30" barrel. I get 3000 with 26" and the 250. I figure I could get 2800 with the 300 but maybe closer to 2700. I have never fired one as I am pretty sure the 12 twist won't get the job done.
Quote
Shawn's load with a 300 SMK is 92 grains of H-1000, that is the same load that I shoot in my Lapua.
Berger data has max load at 84.5 grains @ 2600 fps using a 26" barrel. 92 grains seems like a huge jump!
I have a 30" barrel and I get exactly 2790 FPS, so 2800 plus is a good velocity with 300 grain SMK. I seat the bullet out to 3.860 inches. 2900 plus is 338/378 speeds and that case holds a good bit more powder.. Just my experience.
I get a bullet with .754 bc moving 2900 fps out of a 25" barrel and using 70 grains of powder. No brake required as recoil is very moderate from a 9 pound all up rig.
i purchased a brand new 338 lapua weatherby accumark and it shot very crappy called weatherby warranty was not that good . so what I did had straight line machine who builds many national champion 1000 yard bench guns now and had owner greg walstrom but a new bonx barrel on it ,now the rifle which is still a 338 lapua after rebedding and this new bonx barrel shoots great. I do have a 8-32x56 niteforce on this gun and always use lapua brass with my handloads.i do have a 28 inch barrel on this rifle. 338 lapua is easy to find brass or ammo for and It`s just as good as the rest of the 33`s too.
Ordering some of those 195's as soon as I get the family home without dumping a transmission or something equally catastrophic <g>....
I spec'd my 7 WSM @ a 9 twist on the notion that that'd be "plenty for even up to 180's!"........ d'oh. But that should spin the 195's ok according to Berger.
Ordering some of those 195's as soon as I get the family home without dumping a transmission or something equally catastrophic <g>....
I spec'd my 7 WSM @ a 9 twist on the notion that that'd be "plenty for even up to 180's!"........ d'oh. But that should spin the 195's ok according to Berger.
No.... they didn't even exist when I was chambering it, to my knowledge. Google says, they are a very recent thing. That's about all I know about 'em. Is that correct?
I'm not recutting the throat regardless. That rifle shoots 162's absolutely lights out and I built it for hunting blacktail in the clearcuts on the wet side of the Cascades, high desert mule deer, and antelope. The 195 sounds fun but I'm not screwing with a good thing to pick up a minuscule amount less drift..... If my rifle doesn't get along with them, I'm booting the bullet, not the rifle <g>.
i purchased a brand new 338 lapua weatherby accumark and it shot very crappy called weatherby warranty was not that good . so what I did had straight line machine who builds many national champion 1000 yard bench guns now and had owner greg walstrom but a new bonx barrel on it ,now the rifle which is still a 338 lapua after rebedding and this new bonx barrel shoots great. I do have a 8-32x56 niteforce on this gun and always use lapua brass with my handloads.i do have a 28 inch barrel on this rifle. 338 lapua is easy to find brass or ammo for and It`s just as good as the rest of the 33`s too.
No.... they didn't even exist when I was chambering it, to my knowledge. Google says, they are a very recent thing. That's about all I know about 'em. Is that correct?
I'm not recutting the throat regardless. That rifle shoots 162's absolutely lights out and I built it for hunting blacktail in the clearcuts on the wet side of the Cascades, high desert mule deer, and antelope. The 195 sounds fun but I'm not screwing with a good thing to pick up a minuscule amount less drift..... If my rifle doesn't get along with them, I'm booting the bullet, not the rifle <g>.
I'm getting an easy 2800fps out of my Kimber 7WSM, despite the throat length...
That's good to know, Jordan. Excited to try them. That rifle truly bugholes several loads; if she cooperates with the 195's, well, there's not one bad thing about THAT!
Except for the approx (900) 162's on my shelf........ haha.....
The 338/378 holds more powder and is faster than the 338 Lapua, 338 Edge or 338 RUM the latter 3 are ballistic all equal.
I choose the Lapua because the 338 Lapua brand brass is the very best available. People complain about the cost, but one doesn't lose half the cases to sorting out the best ones from the rest. The Lapua brass is 4000 bar strong than needed according to Lapua.
i purchased a brand new 338 lapua weatherby accumark and it shot very crappy called weatherby warranty was not that good . so what I did had straight line machine who builds many national champion 1000 yard bench guns now and had owner greg walstrom but a new bonx barrel on it ,now the rifle which is still a 338 lapua after rebedding and this new bonx barrel shoots great. I do have a 8-32x56 niteforce on this gun and always use lapua brass with my handloads.i do have a 28 inch barrel on this rifle. 338 lapua is easy to find brass or ammo for and It`s just as good as the rest of the 33`s too.
so what I did had straight line machine who builds many national champion 1000 yard bench guns now and had owner greg walstrom but a new bonx barrel on it ,now the rifle which is still a 338 lapua after rebedding and this new bonx barrel shoots great.
Have seen many brux barrels, never heard of a bonx ???
Didn't read the thread but on a 700 if just go Rum. Edge is longer and takes up more mag length and although it has a bit more capacity most people I've seen with one down load it to find the node. A RUM will feed and function well and is somewhat efficient. The Lapua is s good choice for quality brass and availability but I've never really liked them on s rem action. The 338/375 ruger interests me a bit too. Chasing a few extra fps isn't always worth it now that we have range finders and it's easy to just dial a few more clicks. I've been doing pretty well at long range lately with my little 24" 300 wsm and 215 hybrids at 2800.
Don't be a dick. He's the first person in all these pages to say that COAL is a potential issue in an EDGE in a M700 action. I'd like to hear more about what he has to say about that. STFU or go away.
Don't be a dick. He's the first person in all these pages to say that COAL is a potential issue in an EDGE in a M700 action. I'd like to hear more about what he has to say about that. STFU or go away.
Jeff, sometimes you make no sense at all. Longer case always mean longer COAL. Duh!
As I posted earlier with the proper bottom motel one can load out to 3.9" COAL in a Rem 700 action. Don't act like this hasn't been covered.
Don't be a dick. He's the first person in all these pages to say that COAL is a potential issue in an EDGE in a M700 action. I'd like to hear more about what he has to say about that. STFU or go away.
Jeff, sometimes you make no sense at all. Longer case always mean longer COAL. Duh!
As I posted earlier with the proper bottom motel one can load out to 3.9" COAL in a Rem 700 action. Don't act like this hasn't been covered.
Be nice or go away JWP. This is Jeffy's place of solace.
Curious to hear about your experiences smashing elk with the 195 Berger, Tanner.
JWP, yes, I know this. I personally milled the action for my 7 WSM and installed an extended Wyatt's, modified the bolt stop, etc, and will do so in this case as well (or go detached mag).
Burleyboy says he's been around a number of both RUM's and EDGE's in M700's and has raised a point that I'm curious to hear more about, which is COAL issues with the EDGE. I seriously doubt that the EDGE's he saw were in bone-stock M700 actions, right? So my vote is we let the gentleman expand on that, if he will.
Curious to hear about your experiences smashing elk with the 195 Berger, Tanner.
JWP, yes, I know this. I personally milled the action for my 7 WSM and installed an extended Wyatt's, modified the bolt stop, etc, and will do so in this case as well (or go detached mag).
Burleyboy says he's been around a number of both RUM's and EDGE's in M700's and has raised a point that I'm curious to hear more about, which is COAL issues with the EDGE. I seriously doubt that the EDGE's he saw were in bone-stock M700 actions, right? So my vote is we let the gentleman expand on that, if he will.
The only way to have a COAL issue is with long heavy high BC Bullets in a stock magazine no other way.
Give it a season or 2, there'll be a gallery of bulls smacked with that bullet but they already have proven to be killers. If a .760 BC going 2850 doesn't seem like an elk killer then I don't know what does.
Curious to hear about your experiences smashing elk with the 195 Berger, Tanner.
JWP, yes, I know this. I personally milled the action for my 7 WSM and installed an extended Wyatt's, modified the bolt stop, etc, and will do so in this case as well (or go detached mag).
Burleyboy says he's been around a number of both RUM's and EDGE's in M700's and has raised a point that I'm curious to hear more about, which is COAL issues with the EDGE. I seriously doubt that the EDGE's he saw were in bone-stock M700 actions, right? So my vote is we let the gentleman expand on that, if he will.
You claim to build guns, yet cant figure this stuff out?
Give it a season or 2, there'll be a gallery of bulls smacked with that bullet but they already have proven to be killers. If a .760 BC going 2850 doesn't seem like an elk killer then I don't know what does.
Tanner
I see.
I'd appreciate it if you'd share your experience with building and running big .33's on M700 actions. Thanks!
Curious to hear about your experiences smashing elk with the 195 Berger, Tanner.
JWP, yes, I know this. I personally milled the action for my 7 WSM and installed an extended Wyatt's, modified the bolt stop, etc, and will do so in this case as well (or go detached mag).
Burleyboy says he's been around a number of both RUM's and EDGE's in M700's and has raised a point that I'm curious to hear more about, which is COAL issues with the EDGE. I seriously doubt that the EDGE's he saw were in bone-stock M700 actions, right? So my vote is we let the gentleman expand on that, if he will.
The only way to have a COAL issue is with long heavy high BC Bullets in a stock magazine no other way.
Thanks John. Appreciate the definitiveness of that. That's my gut on it as well. Still, would love to hear from Burleyboy as to what he saw. Hopefully he'll check back in.
Or you could just buy a M700 LSS in 338 RUM and call it done. Here is mine and she shoots lights out with .5 MOA to 800 yards. Scope is a VX-6 3-18x44mm. 100 yds 200 yds JD338
Or you could just buy a M700 LSS in 338 RUM and call it done. Here is mine and she shoots lights out with .5 MOA to 800 yards. Scope is a VX-6 3-18x44mm. 100 yds 200 yds JD338
JD, thanks. One of my donor candidates is that exact rifle in 300 RUM (used). It handled real nice. I will be sorely tempted to shoot it, if I go that route. And then with my luck the damn thing would shoot lights out!
You slide it over your head when you go the range in an attempt to save other gun owners the potential embarrassment of associating us with Obama loving dickheads like yourself.
Why anybody tries to help your stupid ass with anything is beyond comprehension.
Or you could just buy a M700 LSS in 338 RUM and call it done. Here is mine and she shoots lights out with .5 MOA to 800 yards. Scope is a VX-6 3-18x44mm. 100 yds 200 yds JD338
JD, thanks. One of my donor candidates is that exact rifle in 300 RUM (used). It handled real nice. I will be sorely tempted to shoot it, if I go that route. And then with my luck the damn thing would shoot lights out!
Then use the .300 RUM and forget about a "Big .33."
You slide it over your head when you go the range in an attempt to save other gun owners the potential embarrassment of associating us with Obama loving dickheads like yourself.
Why anybody tries to help your stupid ass with anything is beyond comprehension.
Dave
For most drunks, I'd be for saying its a bit early to be in the mean stage. But you are in a class all by yourself. Congratulations.....?
Now go play with your goatphuck of an "ultimate rifle"...... snork......
Then use the .300 RUM and forget about a "Big .33."
Again. Far, far too simple.
I want to build another rifle. It's not a need; I've got enough, and they all work well. Heck, I have a very accurate .338 WM! I cut metal for a living and it's a nice break from making industrial parts to work on a rifle. And, there's plenty to learn, and I enjoy the challenge.
.......... but if the [bleep] DID shoot really, really well I'd be sorely tempted to run with it. Ugh. Then I'd be ".30-cal long range" guy. Nobody loves .30 cal long range guy. The smug "I'm so efficient" 6.5 and 7mm guys act all, you know, superior, and the "my dick is HUGE!" .33 cal guys are like, snork.... look at that wanky little thing..... It'd be a tough, tough place to live.
(All in good fun, you over-sensitive 6.5, 7mm, .30, and .33 cal wankers!)
You've got a donor action, I've shown you a barrel. Bix & Andy triggers are available, along with McM stocks and DE bolt stops. Can get a reamer ground post haste. What's your hold up???
You've got a donor action, I've shown you a barrel. Bix & Andy triggers are available, along with McM stocks and DE bolt stops. Can get a reamer ground post haste. What's your hold up???
AJ, ordering the barrel next week, but if it was you that linked to that one Grizzly was selling, not that barrel. I want Pac-Nor, I want stainless, I want fluted....... Hopefully get it by March or April. I wouldn't say I have a donor. I have options for an action, but the one donor locally is far from ideal. Unless it shoots. Then it's just CONFUSING <g>. Probably go bare action there anyway, assuming the place I found one actually HAS it like they say they do. Unless I buy that donor. [bleep] if I know at this moment.
The rest of the parts are TBD. Most of them are easy to snag when needed. I guess some stocks have lead time. Not ready to commit to a stock and won't be for a while. That style stock is uncharted waters for me. Plus I need to think more about magazine options; detachable box is again uncharted waters in a bolt gun. Do I want that? Dunno. Might be too tacticool for me.
The scope will be a big enough single purchase that I'll have to either save up a bit or have a fat month and just go for it. I've got business plays in motion that are about to need resources as well. It's not going to be a fast build. Unless you're buying!
SWFA is head of the pack as far as "can't afford a NF" goes. Hopefully it won't be a money-driven choice. We'll see. The joys of self employment- I have NO IDEA how much I'll make in 2016! But '15 was good enough that I just pushed a few K income into '16 for tax purposes.. Onward!
Hit a few gunshops today looking for a donor. One I hadn't been into, is a stocking Vortex dealer and had several LR oriented models in stock. I'll trouble them to take a couple out of the case when I get closer to buying.
For that matter, my 6.5-20 Conquest has been really solid on a couple rifles now and is optically brilliant. They are like $700. Needs a ramp though as it is challenged a bit in the erector travel department.
You've got a donor action, I've shown you a barrel. Bix & Andy triggers are available, along with McM stocks and DE bolt stops. Can get a reamer ground post haste. What's your hold up???
AJ, ordering the barrel next week, but if it was you that linked to that one Grizzly was selling, not that barrel. I want Pac-Nor, I want stainless, I want fluted....... Hopefully get it by March or April. I wouldn't say I have a donor. I have options for an action, but the one donor locally is far from ideal. Unless it shoots. Then it's just CONFUSING <g>. Probably go bare action there anyway, assuming the place I found one actually HAS it like they say they do. Unless I buy that donor. [bleep] if I know at this moment.
The rest of the parts are TBD. Most of them are easy to snag when needed. I guess some stocks have lead time. Not ready to commit to a stock and won't be for a while. That style stock is uncharted waters for me. Plus I need to think more about magazine options; detachable box is again uncharted waters in a bolt gun. Do I want that? Dunno. Might be too tacticool for me.
The scope will be a big enough single purchase that I'll have to either save up a bit or have a fat month and just go for it. I've got business plays in motion that are about to need resources as well. It's not going to be a fast build. Unless you're buying!
JWP, yes, I know this. I personally milled the action for my 7 WSM and installed an extended Wyatt's, modified the bolt stop, etc, and will do so in this case as well (or go detached mag).
Suppressor's are awesome, tossed salad sucks. Big 33's scream 300 grain scenars. 30's call for 155 scenar. Sevens are more fun, and go to the woods.
I assumed you meant suppressor but in my limited knowledge with this type of rifle, I don't remember ever seeing a suppressor on a big heavy "landing rifle". Is that a common thing?
I think your last sentence is probably pretty damn true. I might have to just learn that one the hard way, though.
Awww.... don't be so hard on yourself. You are often quite funny.
Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and go find a sheep. That'll put you in good Xmas cheer. You're more fun when you are cheerful anyway. Angry Deflave is boooooring.
If a fella has to have a Big 338, then he would be taking about a 338 Lapua Improved. 300 grains at 3000fps, with great brass. But, that isn't going to get done on a Rem 700 action. So, that leaves the rest, with brass still being an issue. As mentioned, several times before, 338-375 Ruger is a beast, on a regular bolt face, as are the 338 Ultra, and the Edge. Wouldn't do anything Bee, as it the above do the same, with less powder, and the brass thing.
I know I haven't said anything new, as it is a Jeff O thread.
I don't get angry at retards. I just think it's important for everybody to understand they're trying to help a retard.
Dave
I know you do. And please, don't stop! You are just so damn CUTE in your little superhero pajamas..... saving the world.... stern look on your cute lil' face.... sliding across the floor on your little footies.....
What's ACTUALLY happening is that it's causing you painful cognitive dissonance to know that I'm a better rifleman than you, and am capable of technical feats you'll never touch. Drives you nuts so what to do?! Well, go on the offensive, of course! And so you do, and here we are, again, with you camped out on a thread just mucking it up.
I'd also add, if going the Lapua Improved direction, then just buy a Sako TRG-42. New or used. I think a feller would be hard pressed to build a better rifle, in that chambering, for less money. Also, in spite of all of the bean counting, big 338's are not cheap to shoot, and if one plans on actually shooting it a bit, it won't take long for the price of components to exceed the price of the rifle.
Has anyone considered the Savage .338 Lapua? I saw one at Sportsmans, but have not been interested. Does it have a larger bolt face than the Remington?
A few participants of this thread have seen this rifle in action. I don't shoot it much anymore, as I'm more into my 6.5 SAUM rifles, but it really performs...
A few participants of this thread have seen this rifle in action. I don't shoot it much anymore, as I'm more into my 6.5 SAUM rifles, but it really performs...
Has anyone considered the Savage .338 Lapua? I saw one at Sportsmans, but have not been interested. Does it have a larger bolt face than the Remington?
I wouldn't...but that's me. Same deal as the Remington bolt face. There isn't enough left to make a fella feel great about having 67,500 ish psi that close to his face.
JWP, yes, I know this. I personally milled the action for my 7 WSM and installed an extended Wyatt's, modified the bolt stop, etc, and will do so in this case as well (or go detached mag).
Considering that isn't what was in question, I'm laffin' your direction right now. That you're calling some else else retarded while you run with a straw man, apparently without even realizing it, is a delicious irony and I encourage you to continue.
I was busy is the shop all day making stainless threaded hubs for electric bikes at +/- .001" on feature tolerance and at under .001" concentricity between features. Want to see a pic? My phone kept donging and I saw you were going bonkers but I didn't open the emails. Guessing you took issue with me being a better rifleman? Case of IPA says it's so, irons or scoped, any range, any position(s).
On that note, let extend a very genuine "Thank You" to everyone who contributed. It's a good thread. It confirms what I had thought going in (RUM or EDGE) but I'm a noob at this type of rifle and wanted to hear about all options. I'll be spec'ing the barrel with PN next week and I'll probably touch base here one more time before actually ordering it, unless Deflave et al are still all worked up, in which case I'll just let him/them have the "floor"............. which suits them, haha....
Does it have a Hope and Change sticker on the buttstock?
Maybe next range session you can explain how the length of a case can affect COAL.
Bring crayons.
Dave
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
On that note, let extend a very genuine "Thank You" to everyone who contributed. It's a good thread. It confirms what I had thought going in (RUM or EDGE) but I'm a noob at this type of rifle and wanted to hear about all options. I'll be spec'ing the barrel with PN next week and I'll probably touch base here one more time before actually ordering it, unless Deflave et al are still all worked up, in which case I'll just let him/them have the "floor"............. which suits them, haha....
You think this is bad? A friend of mine wanted to build two rifles using McSwirlly stocks. Took jim almost a month to figure out the exact percentages for three colors.
PS- in deference to your handicap, you will be allowed a "second" to load the correct ammo into your rifle.
PPS- I will not shoot with someone who is drinking.
Jeff, let it go. Don't let this turn into another "post your load" debacle. Out of 6 or 7 pages, I have to guess that you have whatever it was that you were looking for? Order up your junk and bolt this thing together. Start a new thread when you do.
PS- in deference to your handicap, you will be allowed a "second" to load the correct ammo into your rifle.
PPS- I will not shoot with someone who is drinking.
Jeff, let it go. Don't let this turn into another "post your load" debacle. Out of 6 or 7 pages, I have to guess that you have whatever it was that you were looking for? Order up your junk and bolt this thing together. Start a new thread when you do.
R.
That's some sound advice...
PS, I went 9.3" 30" broughton, a-5 , 700 and 338 RUM
...230 grain bullets at 3200fps. Brass is seasonal but if you are patient it can be had...
What kind of powder and charge are you using?
I've got a 30-378 Improved (holds 135 grains of water) and am fireforming still. However, I loaded up 5 fireformed cases with 101, 101.5, 102, 102.5, 103 grains of Retumbo and seated the bullets into the lands. I got the 230 grain Berger to 3150 fps with 103 grains of Retumbo, but the bolt was sticky. This danged Norma brass is so soft it's aggravating.
338 RUM, 250gr. Sierra Game king at 3,050 fps, meat from elk kill at 700 yards. It wears a new stock now, but the cartridge will run with a 338 LM, at cheaper costs. Gonna 338 RUM, and don't look back.
Sam, I actually have a very accurate .338WM. I like it a lot for what it is. The "Big .33's" up the game considerably; not so much because they'll kill anything more deader at normal ranges, but because that can drive the very high-BC bullets fast enough to have spectacular external ballistics, and to still expand at very extended ranges.
..... or that's the idea anyway. All theoretical at this point for me. Just going off what the users of these beasts say.
Tracking and following blood trails is for bowhunters and those with an irrational fear of recoil, dear gawd that horrifying thump on the shoulder .....
338 Edge 'N 300 gr Accubonds coated with ws2 at 2900 fps puts 'em down on the spot, Tracking ? Ah ain't got time fo dat shyte !
In Handloader #141 (Sep-Oct 1989) the .338-378 got 3160 fps from the 250 gr; that was with 26.8" barrel. Later, a 31" barrel got 200 fps better. You can view the article in the partial pdf display of that issue on the Handloader website.
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