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#1976675 - 01/29/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: rem338win]
steve1 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/18/05
Posts: 1085
Loc: NJ
medicman and MoccasinJoe,
Since I am the partner MoccasinJoe is discussing,and since we don't quite remember this the same way,I'll put my two cents in here.
1) my notes show I put 238 rounds through that rifle before leaving for Africa,plus another 3 to sight in at camp.
2) first shot at buff at right around 100 yds,2nd at 20-25 yds.,so 243 rounds before the malfuntion.
3)I remember the loaded round (Barnes 450 triple x)going catywampus and jamming, the tip angled left as the problem,not a failure to eject.
4)My cousin and I put another 70 rounds through that rifle after I got back home with no problems ,plus the PH fired three in the air to move some lions out of our way to the airstrip to come home.So counting my last two to finish the buff,that's 75 after the jam with no problems.
Granted,the jam came at a most innoportune time,but it was the only one I experienced.
That action and the magazine are long enough to feed .458 Lott.The fact that the round was jammed diagonally,case head right rear,bullet point left front,would indicate that the case head was not picked up solidly under the extractor.I hate to admit it,but the likelihood is that I may have short stroked it just a hair.Joe was johnny on the spot with the leatherman,and did help me clear the action quickly,but I remember the problem as having been the loaded round,not the previous fired case.
Besides all the rounds that I actually fired,every one,plus the sixty some odd rounds I still have was function tested through that action.By my count that's about 700 loaded .458 Winchester rounds that functioned through that rifle with the one failure to feed.Counting the feeding but not firing.close to 570 rounds through the action before the failure.
Before I ever attempt to use it on dangerous game again,I will have a good gunsmith slick it up for function.
Hope that gives everyone a clearer picture.

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#1977003 - 01/29/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: steve1]
medicman Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/17/07
Posts: 3576
Loc: Ontario Canada
I thank you for the further info. Some suggestions regarding cross bolts and glass bedding were already planned no matter what rifle selected. Your experience falls into line with my friends two rifles that I have used. I, like you, function test all reloads or factory before ever the field is experienced. With dangerous game this step is necessary. Prove the weapon, prove the man, then go hunt.

Randy
_________________________
Praise the Lord for full Salvation
Christ Still lives upon the throne
And I know the blood still cleansess
Deeper than the sin has gone
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#1977618 - 01/29/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: medicman]
steve1 Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 07/18/05
Posts: 1085
Loc: NJ
Not to belabor the point,but the .458 Winchester and the .458 Lott in the CZ 550 seem to be built on the same action and the same magazine.I loaded several rounds with the TSX way out,to duplicate the length OAL of the Lott,based on info two other campfire members with the same rifle had forwarded to me.
The rounds worked through the mag and chambered slick as you please.
With a long bullet like that,seated out,it should be theoretically possible to get enough powder under it to pretty much duplicate Lott loads,and still be able to have enough bullet in the case to hold it securely and crimp it thoroughly as well.I cycled and fired those rounds without a problem.They were loaded slightly hotter than the 71.5 of H4895 that MoccasinJoe and I had standardized on,73.5 grains I believe,but they were still in the upper range for the winchester as opposed to true Lott loadings.
I haven't been able to get my hands on any Lott brass,so I don't know if that would chamber,but the leade is definately long enough for that OAL.I suspect that extra overall length,just before the projectile actually enters the chamber might have been part of the problem.
At any rate,I haven't been able to get that jam to repeat,even with a couple hundred rounds loaded with Remington .458 RNSPs loaded for practice,which is even shorter than the TSX loaded for standard .458 OAL.If I were to contemplate DG hunting again,I'd be sure to have the inside surfaces of the rails slicked up,as that's where the nose of the bullet hung up,and remember to operate the bolt smartly,which admittedly I don't think I have always done in practice,though at the time,I thought I had done in that situation.

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#1977804 - 01/29/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: rem338win]
HankStone Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 12/14/04
Posts: 901
Loc: North New York State
If I remember correctly back in the late 1980S,the then new .416 Remington Magnum trumped the .458 Winchester Magnum,and sent it off to the side of the Magnum road,then the gun writers buried the .458 Winchester by trashing it with negative press.

I load my Model 70 down to Marlin 45-70 Max loads for Deer&Bear, I never had one get up or run.

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#1981150 - 01/31/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: HankStone]
IndyCA35 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 3639
Loc:
 Originally Posted By: HankStone
If I remember correctly back in the late 1980S,the then new .416 Remington Magnum trumped the .458 Winchester Magnum,and sent it off to the side of the Magnum road,then the gun writers buried the .458 Winchester by trashing it with negative press.


Very...interesting...

It so happens that if a .458 Winchester is loaded with 400 grain bullets, like a .416 Remington, and if both are sighted in at 150 yards, the .458 will stay within 3" of the .416 trajectory out to 300 yards.

It also so happens that the .458 can be loaded with 500 grain bullets for the big stuff and the .416 can't!

So who trumps whom?

The firearme companies should have invented the .416 first. That way the .458 could have been their "improvement."
_________________________
“I want to make it clear to you, Iran is not building these ICBMs to hit Israel. They already have missiles that can hit Israel everywhere. They are building these ICBMs to hit you. To hit the United States.” Benjamin Netanyahu

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#1981190 - 01/31/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: IndyCA35]
Odessa Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 5416
Loc: Downeast NC
I just got one of those monthly e-mail updates from Barnes Bullets. They are announcing a new 350 grain .458 caliber bullet that should give the .458 Win Mag some additional velocity with a toughly constructed bullet. Odessa

"This is a 10-shot target featuring one of our new bullet introductions for 2008. Would you believe its our .458 caliber 350-grain TSX? This is a 1/2″ group! We frequently see extraordinary accuracy with our big caliber bullets."

"This is an interesting story. When Fred Barnes was mentoring my father in the early years, one day he noticed a target hanging on Freds wall with five .458 caliber 500-grain Barnes FMJs strung through a wire hanger in a crude sort of necklace fashion. The target had a 100 yard 5-shot group that measured 1 1/4″. Randy remarked Whats the big deal? This isnt a great group. Fred explained he shot this target with the original .458 Winchester Magnum proto-type rifle he had sent to Winchester. According to Fred, Winchester sent the rifle back, and introduced the cartridge a few years later with some slight variations. Anyway, he pulled the rifle out of the corner one day and fired a bullet at a clean target. Then each year for the next four consecutive years he fired one 500-grain Barnes FMJ at this target, from this rifle, on the anniversary date of the first firing and recovered the bullets. Incidentally, Fred built this rifle on a Mauser 98 action and we have it here at the factory today. I crack a smile every time I see it and think about the history behind that old gun.

My dad was re-telling this story to me not that long ago and chuckled Fred was always doing off-the-wall things like that or coming up with a new something or other he wanted to test. Well dad, I guess thats what STILL makes our company great, isnt it! You always say Ten ideas in the hopper And Barnes is STILL the innovator.

-Jessica Brooks"

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One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy over the good fortune of others.
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#1982342 - 01/31/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: IndyCA35]
allenday Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 3052
Loc: Yamhill Co., OR
I've used the 458 Win. Mag. before in Tanzania on buffalo, hippo, and zebra with 500 gr. Trophy Bonded solids @ 2100 fps. MV, and I've also used the 416 Rem. Mag. with 400 gr. Swift A-Frames @ 2400 fps. MV as well as 370 gr. North Fork solids & softs @ 2470 fps. MV. Both cartridges and all of these loads have been absolutely devastating, and to say that one worked well while the others didn't would be rather ridiculous.

Even so, no matter how much us 416 fans love our rifles, a properly-loaded 458 Win. Mag. is still more rifle, and those big 500 gr. bullets clobber the biggest stuff harder and have the weight (and thus, momentum) to penetrate deeper, on average.

I still think that good 500 gr. bullets loaded to 2100 fps. or better get the most performance that the 458 Win. Mag. has to offer, and with today's powders, that's not all that tough to achieve. In many ways, the 458 Win. Mag. is today a better cartridge than it's ever been before, especially with much more suitable, modern powders and contemporary bullets, and especially with modern, high-performance factory loads (like Winchester's new 500 gr. Nosler Part. & solid ammo promises to be), the 458 Win. Mag. ain't no slouch, and many of the old objections to it are somewhat obsolete.

Do I think that the bigger 458s like the Lott, Dakota, and Weatherby are still fundamentally better?

Yes I do, but all of them still burn more powder and kick harder than the 458 Winchester does, plus the man who can find a good buy on an older, high-quality factory 458 Win. like a Browning Safari or Model 70 can certainly tune-up, adjust, load for, and make hum to the point of having a totally sufficient dangerous game rifle that'll get any job done, from hunting lions to elephants.

A few years ago, I sold my old Model 70 Classic 458 Win. Mag. to a good friend and hunting partner, and a short time later one of our mutual friends bought a Ruger Magnum 458 Lott. It terms of handiness, balance, and light carrying weight, that old Model 70 with its 22" bbl. is a far more user-friendly and practical rifle to carry than that Ruger Lott is, and if I had the choice of either one of them to select for an elephant hunt (long hikes day-in and day-out), I'd grab that Model 70 in a heartbeat.

Another good reason to go with the 458 Win. Mag........

AD

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#1984344 - 02/01/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: allenday]
JPK Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/23/06
Posts: 782
I have to agree with Allen, his analysis covers it all.

But I'll mention that getting 500gr bullets to 2150fps and beyond, while staying within book loads, is no trouble with a couple of today's powders, especially AA2230.

I'll also add that flat nose monometal solids like the North Fork or the GS Custom in 450grs outperform the 500gr solids, with far greater penetration and no loss in apparent impact effect. The 450's can run a good bit faster. I run the 500's at 2145fps muzzle velocity using AA2230 and the 450's at 2200fps using H4895. Neither load is anywhere near max and neither has proven temp sensative. Both loads are completely adequate and more for buff or eles, the 450's get the nod for eles because of the greater penetration. I've knocked down or down and out several eles with less than perfect brain shots with both loads, stopped a charge with the 450, and that shot wasn't perfect either.

JPK


Edited by JPK (02/01/08)

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#1985831 - 02/01/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: Odessa]
atkinsonhunting Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/04/01
Posts: 6954
Loc: Filer, Idaho, USA
Indy,
that only says part of the story, it sounds good but its not a fact by any means...Sectional density, is a very important part of any DG round and a short stubbey 458 will not penetrate well enough for buffalo and elephant..The only way a .458 qualifies IMO for a DG round is with a good handload and a 500 gr. bullet that is long enough to have sufficient penetration. The monolithics can change this according to some, but then they can do the same for a .416 so the equasion never changes...By the same token I won't shoot 300 gr. bullets in my .416 even though they have the same velocity as a 300 win or something on that order.

A 350 or 400 gr. .458 is more of a ball than a bullet IMO...however I speak for myself and have no quarrel with those that choose to do otherwise.
_________________________
Ray Atkinson
www.atkinsonhunting.com
ray@atkinsonhunting.com
208-326-4120

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#1986810 - 02/02/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: atkinsonhunting]
IndyCA35 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 3639
Loc:
atkinson,

I know about sectional density but what about JPK's contention that the flat point shape of 450 grain North Forks creates an effect that lets them penetrate deeper than Kynoch-shaped 500 grain round noses which have better sectional density? In other posts, JPK has actually shot animals with North Forks to prove this, IIRC. Also, there have been some theoretical studies about this posted on various boards, though personally I trust the people who have used them better than the theoretical studies.

Irrespective of shape, the sectional density of the 450 is over 300 and I can get 2250 fps with no pressure problems. From what I have read, that should put my .458 easily into the DG range.

The 450 grain .458 bullet has slightly better sectional density than does the 300 grain .375, slightly lower velocity, and 50% more weight; also slightly less sectional density than the 400 grain .416. What's wrong with that?

The only problem is that North Fork went out of business. I only have 44 of these solids left. Fortunately, I have the load worked up and I keep very thorough notes. The North Forks shoot 1.0" lower than 450 grain TSXs in my rifle at 100 yards, so I don't even have to waste any confirming my zero. 44 might last many years.
_________________________
“I want to make it clear to you, Iran is not building these ICBMs to hit Israel. They already have missiles that can hit Israel everywhere. They are building these ICBMs to hit you. To hit the United States.” Benjamin Netanyahu

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#1986876 - 02/02/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: IndyCA35]
JPK Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/23/06
Posts: 782
 Originally Posted By: IndyCA35
atkinson,

I know about sectional density but what about JPK's contention that the flat point shape of 450 grain North Forks creates an effect that lets them penetrate deeper than Kynoch-shaped 500 grain round noses which have better sectional density? In other posts, JPK has actually shot animals with North Forks to prove this, IIRC. Also, there have been some theoretical studies about this posted on various boards, though personally I trust the people who have used them better than the theoretical studies.

Irrespective of shape, the sectional density of the 450 is over 300 and I can get 2250 fps with no pressure problems. From what I have read, that should put my .458 easily into the DG range.

The 450 grain .458 bullet has slightly better sectional density than does the 300 grain .375, slightly lower velocity, and 50% more weight; also slightly less sectional density than the 400 grain .416. What's wrong with that?

The only problem is that North Fork went out of business. I only have 44 of these solids left. Fortunately, I have the load worked up and I keep very thorough notes. The North Forks shoot 1.0" lower than 450 grain TSXs in my rifle at 100 yards, so I don't even have to waste any confirming my zero. 44 might last many years.


It ain't a theory! 450gr North Frok flat nose solids at 2200fps far outpenetrate 500gr Woodleighs at 2145fps. This has been the case with every 450 shot vs every 500 shot. The issue of greater penetration is resolved, at least for me, but how much greater pentration? My measurements and experiments in elephants leads me to lean toward believing that its in the neighborhood of 40%. But so many North Forks exited that I don't have enough of a sample to be really comfortable with that assesment.

500grs, who post here and elsewhere has also done extensive test, more extensive than mine. He finds a lesser advantage, in the areas of 15% IIRC. But many of the test he tried were equal weight flat noses vs equal weight round noses at the same velocity. So it seems that the flat noses gain advantage through speed rather than mass. But I am unaware of any tests in real game or ballistic gell designed to smoke this out.

Does indicate why moving to 450gr solids in the 458wm results in such a phenominal increase in performance though. The fellow who turned me onto the 450 North Forks finds the same remarkable increase in performance in his 450NE No2, a rifle not limited by its cartridge case capacity - the 450NE No2 has an enourmous case thal ALWAYS requires a filler - but rather a rifle whose velocity is limited by the pressure it can withstand and also by how the two barrels were regulated (same issue regarding regulation for my 458wm DR too, which is why my 500's are limted to 2145fps and the 450's limited to 2200fps.))

From 500 Grains tests, I would be very confident shooting GS Custom flat nose mono bullets, btw.

On lighter weight non DG bullets, used for trajectory improvement. I am a fan of keep it simple stupid. One weight bullet for each rifle on safari. Then your selection is limited to soft or solid. Better a more arched trajectory than the wrong weight bullet up the spout or in the magazine. But I suppose you could keep the light weights "locked up" until all the DG for the trip is shot and then retire the heavies. Still I'd keep it simple.

And Indy, don't let Ray Atkinson fool you, he has been touting the 450gr North Fork cup points - not flat nose solids - for buff for years, so his line about 500's only is just argumentative bull.

JPK


Edited by JPK (02/02/08)

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#1987510 - 02/02/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: rem338win]
tomk Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 03/16/04
Posts: 4148
Loc: Michigan
No, but a lot more than that.

The last Safari with knockout wood that went thru my hands was sold for 1300 USD...and they made a lot of 270s.

With a special order like yours and its condition, I imagine it has significantly more value to the right collector, than to a hunter.

In my experience, Browning collectors tend to be shy on full disclosure.:)

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#1987853 - 02/02/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: JPK]
allenday Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 04/28/03
Posts: 3052
Loc: Yamhill Co., OR
North Fork 370 gr. .416 bullets penetrate and perform superbly, and I can't see that the North Fork .458s wouldn't work at least as effectively.

I surely do hope that someone starts producing North Fork bullets again, and that they are of the same quality as turned out by Mike Brady.

I'm hunting with North Forks again this season with my 416 rem. Mag., but unless these bullets come available once again, I'll be looking to work with something else after I'm back from this year's hunting........

AD

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#1987866 - 02/02/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: allenday]
luv2safari Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 12/31/06
Posts: 15119
Loc: NW NV & Far NW MT
 Originally Posted By: allenday


I surely do hope that someone starts producing North Fork bullets again, and that they are of the same quality as turned out by Mike Brady.

AD


Add me here! They were about as good as anyone could make.
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Hunt with Class and Classics

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#1989465 - 02/03/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: luv2safari]
IndyCA35 Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 3639
Loc:
Taking over North Fork bullets would be a good second career for someone who is retired. I sense you would have to have a little more penchant for marketing than Mr. Brady had. Also, I suspect the business may have gotten away from him a little. Someone else could either raise prices or hire more help or both. Depending on how much machinery and facilities are involved, one could either move to Wyoming (hunting is good) or move the business elsewhere. You could probably get a small business loan from the govt.

End of advertisement. I hope somebody does that.
_________________________
“I want to make it clear to you, Iran is not building these ICBMs to hit Israel. They already have missiles that can hit Israel everywhere. They are building these ICBMs to hit you. To hit the United States.” Benjamin Netanyahu

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#1995251 - 02/05/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: IndyCA35]
atkinsonhunting Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 03/04/01
Posts: 6954
Loc: Filer, Idaho, USA
I love it when I get misquoted..I tested the Northforks before anyone ever used them and the 450 flat nose solids or cup points are fantastic bullets..

What I said was the 300, 350 and even the 400 gr. bullets are not long enough IMO and bullets without SD, tend to slow down quicker, penetrate less as they do not have the mass to push them IMO...especially in conventional bullets, but also in monolithics..reread my posts.

In monolithics I agree that is a good practice to go from the heavy bullet to the next bullet down such as from 500 gr. conventional to 450 gr. monolithics..but that is where you stop for dangerous game in a 458 cal...In a .416 you can drop to 350 gr. Monolithics but not to 300 gr. IMO...

So if you going to call BS then do the curtesy of reading the posts in full...
_________________________
Ray Atkinson
www.atkinsonhunting.com
ray@atkinsonhunting.com
208-326-4120

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#1995443 - 02/05/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: atkinsonhunting]
jorgeI Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 24452
Loc: Orange Park, Florida
Ray: I'm with you or with anybody that is taken out of context or misquoted, but one of the benefits touted with Super Premiums is the theory one can go down in weight and still achieve or better penetration over a conventional bullet. I'd be willing to wager that say a 450gr TSX at say 2300 fps will handily out penetrate a 500gr Woodleigh at 2100. Thoughts? jorge
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#2004874 - 02/09/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: IndyCA35]
George_De_Vries_3rd Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 11145
Loc: Iowa
 Originally Posted By: IndyCA35
With modern powders it is no trick to get 2250 fps with 450 grain bullets or 2100 with 500 grain bullets without excessive pressures or excessive powder compression. Personally, I think there is no need for the Lott.


If you could buy a .22 short-only rifle or a .22 in which you could shoot both long rifles as well as the 22 short you would choose to buy the former and claim there is no need for the latter? It seems that claiming the opposite is the more rational. Just because better powders now make the 458 adequate to good doesn't make the Lott which can be a "458 Win" at lower pressures or a Lott (more) at 200-250 fps faster and shoot the Win version to boot less desirable. Plus rifles are of the same action length obviously and Weight.

The reason the Lott came into being was disappointment in the Win's performance which has now been improved. That improvement doesn't make the Lott redundant; it also makes it better.

I'll still take a .22 that will shoot the long rifle too and substitute the short if conditions warrant.

Gdv
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Target shooting is a man's version of golf without the bad clothes.

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#2004911 - 02/09/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: George_De_Vries_3rd]
tightloop Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 842
Loc: Spring, Tx
are you sure the Lott and the Winnie use the same action...I'm not sure they do.

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#2005051 - 02/09/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: tightloop]
George_De_Vries_3rd Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 11145
Loc: Iowa


The 458 Win could be made a shorter action perhaps but the fact that in many present makes and models chambered for the Win cartridge all it takes to convert to a Lott is rechambering; I assume this shows that their magazines-the Win's-can handle the Lott too.

Gdv
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Target shooting is a man's version of golf without the bad clothes.

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#2005192 - 02/09/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: George_De_Vries_3rd]
Oregon45 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 10364
Loc: Oregon
You can convert a standard magnum action to the Lott by altering the magazine box and machining the underside of the rails; the conversion is similar to that done to convert a standard length action to the 375 H&H.

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#2005203 - 02/09/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: Oregon45]
George_De_Vries_3rd Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 11145
Loc: Iowa

Yea, the 458 Win usually is made in a standard magnum action.
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Target shooting is a man's version of golf without the bad clothes.

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#2005473 - 02/10/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: George_De_Vries_3rd]
JPK Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 01/23/06
Posts: 782
 Originally Posted By: goodnews
 Originally Posted By: IndyCA35
With modern powders it is no trick to get 2250 fps with 450 grain bullets or 2100 with 500 grain bullets without excessive pressures or excessive powder compression. Personally, I think there is no need for the Lott.


If you could buy a .22 short-only rifle or a .22 in which you could shoot both long rifles as well as the 22 short you would choose to buy the former and claim there is no need for the latter? It seems that claiming the opposite is the more rational. Just because better powders now make the 458 adequate to good doesn't make the Lott which can be a "458 Win" at lower pressures or a Lott (more) at 200-250 fps faster and shoot the Win version to boot less desirable. Plus rifles are of the same action length obviously and Weight.

The reason the Lott came into being was disappointment in the Win's performance which has now been improved. That improvement doesn't make the Lott redundant; it also makes it better.

I'll still take a .22 that will shoot the long rifle too and substitute the short if conditions warrant.

Gdv


The Lott doesn't add 200-300fps. More like 100-150. If you doubt this, take a look at the Hornaday reloading manual. 2150fps is no big deal and 2200 and more is possible from the 458wm - all while using "book" loads and all thanks to today's powders.

This 100-150fps step up is significant though, imo. But it comes at a big price in recoil. Also, most Lotts are on magnum length actions, many 458wm are on standard length actions, again, not a big deal. Reliability of feeding with a 458wm in a Lott magazine is a question, the too long box can cause alignment and pick up issues. And the 458wm is ubiquitous, I have barrowed ammo in the field in Africa; the Lott may get there but it isn't there yet. You can make a light 458wm and live with it, but for the same recoil or even tolerable (for me), the Lott will have to weigh quite a bit more. More isn't always better. The 22 long rifle doesn't recoil meaningfully more than the 22 short, unlike the relationship between the Lott and the WM.

In my opinion, the Lott is unnessecary since the 458wm gives all of the penetration that is needed, and some, for elephants, so long as you use a flat nose 450gr solid like the former North Fork or the GS Custom. If you need to use round nose solids, then the Lott is going to make up for the shortcomings of round nose penetration.

I have both, btw. But I hunt with the 458wm (and flat nose North Fork 450gr solids.)

JPK


Edited by JPK (02/10/08)

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#2005732 - 02/10/08 Re: The .458 Winchester [Re: JPK]
George_De_Vries_3rd Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 11145
Loc: Iowa

My .22 analogy might not have been the most representative of all aspects of the relationship it's true. While I've not had a 458 Win, CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD claims a Lott can get 2300 fps in a 22 inch barrel with a 500-gr bullet as mine does fairly easy. I shoot mine standing with good eye and ear protection and a shoulder pad all of which makes recoil tolerable with full loads out of my 9.5 lb rifle. Not having shot the Win, I'd like to get some full house loads for comparison, both for recoil and feeding issues if there are any.

Any appraisal of two cartridges like this in the same class both of which are effective on the intended game becomes much tinted by windows of experience the shooter/hunter has had, and the successes or failures too whether the cartridges/bullets fault or not.
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