Originally Posted by SLM
Texas’, This is no longer how A-Pus is administered.


Originally Posted by TexasPhotog
Originally Posted by MTGunner
SLM, please clarify your statement whereas in your initial post you stated that technically state land is not “public” land. In your succeeding post you referred to state or public land as “public” ground. I am a bit conflicted. Please set me straight.
Yes, NM is jacked when it comes to how it will handle state and private hunting. I ask only for clarification not to blur the issue NOT for sake of argument.
Understand that I am a nonresident, resident of MT, looking for equal hunting opportunity for all. I continue to keep informed regarding Montana public and private land issues. MTG


As others have mentioned, New Mexico has some public land with no public access since it's behind private land. This happens in most, if not all, western states.

In New Mexico a lot of state land is leased to ranchers in 99 year grazing leases. These leases are passed down through generations.

Some ranches are 100 percent state lease land and these can be hunted by public hunters.

Fully deeded ranches (no state lease land), like ours, are simply issued tag codes. Some ranchers sell them, some have friends and family come hunt, and some don't allow hunting.

Other ranches, probably the majority, are a combination of private deeded property and state lease. By law, the ranch owner can choose whether he/she wants hunting on the ranch or not, but it's an all or none proposition - public or state hunters must be allowed on these ranches if private hunters are allowed to hunt. Most ranches do allow hunting because a) they're hunter friendly and b) they need the revenue.

Some ranches do not allow hunting because they're opposed to hunting. This is a small percentage. Others don't allow hunting because they don't need the money and don't want to risk any liability. This is also a small percentage. The majority of ranches that don't allow hunting do so because of previous bad experiences with hunters and/or outfitters. This is the other way that state lands become locked.

NM Game and Fish does a fly over antelope census every spring/early summer. They then declare how many antelope they think should be taken per ranch. For round numbers, let's say a 10,000 acre ranch is half deeded acreage and half private. Fish & Game says 10 mature bucks can be taken off of this imaginary ranch. If the rancher allows hunting on the ranch, half of the hunters must be public. The other half, 5 tags, go to the rancher - he/she can sell them, give them to friends and family, or not use them.

I hope that clarifies things.

A few opinions:

1) I would agree that the A-plus system is confusing.

2) New Mexico's government is a mess.

3) There's probably not much that will ever change about fully public land or fully private land ranches. Where headway could be made is on the ranches that have combinations of private deeded and public lands. The outfitters that buy the private tags from ranches and resell them to hunters have to be held accountable by law enforcement - and by hunters. I literally cannot think of a game law I haven't seen an outfitter break in our corner of the state. Responsible outfitters would get more ranches opened up. To give you an idea of how bad the outfitters around us are, I'm certain that I could open a guiding business, approach the ranchers they're currently doing business with, and buy the tags for the same amount currently paid OR LESS. The ranchers hate doing business with them. (NOTE: I'm NOT casting shade on Mr. Drummond. He works in a different part of the state. I don't know him but, by all accounts here, he's well regarded. Kudos to him.)

4) In addition to better outfitters, the other thing that would help open up currently locked ranches are better hunters. A lot of hunters are drunk, and/or don't know or care about the game regulations, and/or don't know how to shoot, and/or don't know how to handle meat, and/or leave every closed gate they come to wide open. Be an ambassador for your sport. We've considered closing our ranch to hunting because of rude, dangerous and unlawful hunters, and the owners around us all tell me they consider it too every year. Our sport is on thin ice in a lot of places and unfortunately much of that has been earned.



SLM,

I called an talked to a NMGF guy at length about antelope and elk.

Since we don't have elk, I'll just pass on what I learned about antelope.

In a way not much has changed about private lands. The owners no longer sell tags, they sell permission to hunt, just like deer season.

On ranches with mixes of public and private, there probably will be more hunting for NM residents. State lease lands with public access will likely be covered with hunters, and I expect most of the antelope will be chased off those areas by 10 am on opening day.

I talked to several other ranchers in the area. They all said they're going to only allow as many hunters as have been typical as in years past. That's partly because they don't want the antelope shot out and they can't have hunters running around their places all the time.


"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that lightening ain't distributed right." - Mark Twain