like i stated in a earlier post no way does one make up loosing money on a product that has to be raised by 60% by doing it in volume...i just aint buying it and how does glenn get somebody to invest enough money to build a new building and fill it up with millions of dollars worth of machines with a questionable profit margin...again just doesnt make cents or dollars to me....my latest pierce for $1000.00 works great and in my mind borden makes as nice or better when it comes to fit and finish and his is easily a smoother action