Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by Sandlapper
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Townsend Whelen's favorite load in the .270 was using the 140 grain Western Tool & Copper Works bullet, until they stopped making that bullet. Would anyone happen to know the velocity he was getting? I assume it was approx. 3000 fps. as that was the velocity J.O'C said he (J.O'C) got when using the 140 grain bullet.

Where was the 140-grain Western Tool & Copper Works bullet being Townsend Whelen's favorite mentioned?


From "An Introduction to Reloading Part V: Loads" by Townsend Whelen (The American Rifleman, 1936):

.270 W.C.F.: Winchester has standard-
ized their factory load with 139-grain bul-
let to give M.V. 3160 f.-s. Other com-
panies load to about 100 f.-s. lower veloc-
ity. My experience has been that hand-
loaders cannot approach close to these
velocities without decidedly running into
high and dangerous pressures. Due to the
danger of running into high pressures with
this cartridge I would caution against using
any case that has ever been fired with a
mercuric primer. Use the F.A. No. 70,
Remington No. 8 1/2, or Winchester No. 115
primers. My best loads have been the 139-
grain Winchester or Western Tool and
Copper Works bullets with 53 grains of
du Pont No. 15 1/2 powder, which gives
M.V. of about 3,000 f.-s.; and the 145-
grain W. T. and C. bullet or the 150-grain
Western soft-point bullet, with 48 grains
of du Pont No. 15 1/2 powder, giving about
2700 f.-s. M.V. These seem to be the
maximum safe charges, because increasing
either by only one-half grain begins to
show clear indication of high pressure. I
tried du Pont No. 17 1/2 powder, but it did
not give nearly as good accuracy, and I do
not believe it gave such high velocity in
safe charges. Both of the above loads are
very accurate, practically all groups going
under 2 inches at 100 yards, with many as
small as 1 3/4 inches. I think that probably
the new du Pont No. 4064 powder will
prove even better than No. 15 1/2, but I do
not know of its having been tried as yet.
In any event, start low with any new pow-
der in this cartridge, and work up a half-
grain at a time.
Thanks for that information. In Mister Rifleman (published around 1965 after his death in 1961) chapter titled "Is There An All-Round Hunting Rifle" under the heading The .270 Winchester on page 247 he discusses the 140 grain Western Tool & Copper Works bullet. Would you happen to know the barrel length of his .270 to get 3000 fps (I assume 24")?

Those data were probably for a 24" barrel, like Whelen's Model 54.


I asked about the 140-grain bullets because the book states, "I got slightly better accuracy with the 140-grain Western Tool & Copper Works bullet, and that is the bullet I have used for all the big game I have shot with it. That bullet is no longer made."

However, in "Hunting Tips and Tales" by Colonel Townsend Whelen (The American Rifleman, August 1941) it states:

My favorite big-game rifle for the past fifteen years has been a .270 Winchester Model 54, fitted with a 2 1/4-power Zeiss Zielklein scope with Griffin & Howe mount. Five years ago I had the bolt handle turned down, mount lowered, and a side safety fitted, thus practically turning it into a Model 70. I also had John Hutton restock it with a very tight bedding and high Monte Carlo comb. It is a very fine rifle under practically any conditions. I have shot only one moose and two deer with it, all at close range, and all with one shot each. At boulders in my pasture at unknown distances I find I can make surer hits at longer ranges than with any other rifle I own. If I were off to the wilderness tomorrow I would take this rifle with me. It does its best work with a hand load consisting of the 130-grain Western Tool & Copper Works bullet and 49 grains of duPont No. 4320 powder. In factory ammunition I have found the Winchester cartridge loaded with 130-grain pointed expanding bullet to be the best.

Given the discrepancy could the "140" possibly be a typo?


Western Tool & Copper Works bullets in 100, 130, 145-grain weights are mentioned in the Field and Stream article below, but not 140 (have seen 95-grain mentioned elsewhere).

https://archive.org/details/sim_field-stream_1927-12_32_8/page/50/mode/2up