Wow. I cant believe that no-one has responded to this for 2 months. The 25-20 is a sweet cartridge. My favorite loads are in the range of 11 to 11.5gr of 4227. If I want max velocity, I crank it up with Lil gun. I generally shoot these in a little Remington 25 pump gun with a barrel cut back to 20 inches. It is my take along gun. Light, handy and fast. When the hedge apples mature in the fall I have great fun blowing them up with a Savage Sporter (pre Mo 23) that is crazy accurate.