Thanks Montana Marine. I will stop @ 60 grn. if tolerated by my firearm which should give me 2900+ fps with non-Sierra bullets. I use relatively new Win. brass and no moly. With the Sierras I like to use less velocity because they have a long bearing surface and pressure will be a problem earlier. That long bearing surface is part of the reason for their great accuracy. The most effective fps for bullet upset @ target is 2700- 2000, don't need extra velocity. Thanks for your help I will try RL-17 with my other bullets. Buckfever 1