I like to play the odds when it comes to bird dogs. Less frustration. The GSP has become Americanized for so long that we have molded it to suit our needs. Pure Griffons and Drahthaars not nearly so. The ones I have seen were owned by those who wanted something different. They got there wish.

The breeding of the trials eventually filters down in most cases to us that are just hunters. It is too our benefit. I used to think, that if I wanted a pointer it would hunt close. Until I saw some good ones that pushed out and could hold their birds.
Not sure what your definition of close is, but anything 35yards and under I may as well have a flusher.

If I would have a pointer it would be something that had some snap and style when it pinned its birds. With the exception of the GSP, the few other Europeans I've seen look they are taking a nap while leaning up against a pole when they point. Admittedly I haven't seen all that many, but those impressed me little as far a being dynamic.

I often hunt my flushers with a couple good pointers that range at 75+yards on Ruffed Grouse. The ground has been pretty well covered by the time my dogs get to it. Those pointers leave little for the flushers to clean up on, except the retrieving. They are full of electricity when they say, "Come on up, I've done my job. Your turn."

My reference to pen birds was only in the context of it takes wild birds to make a great bird dog.

Ruffed Grouse in quantity have pretty much left my immediate area. For me to get into birds and enough open land I have at minimum a 2 hour drive each way. Doubt I will ever have another great Grouse dog like the ones I had in the past when it took 45min max to get into many birds. They trained on the real thing.

Good luck and wish you the best.

Addition: Best Dog I ever hunted over-until I had the Springer Duffy-for putting wild Pheasants up in front of the gun was a Beagle that didn't screw around. grin










Last edited by battue; 08/17/11.

laissez les bons temps rouler