Originally Posted by Formidilosus
Rapid Z, Nightforce Velocity, etc.

Yes, they are better for windage than "plain" BDC's, however you are still holding in air at anything other than whole distances. Most take these scopes, go to a bench and then proceed to shoot them at targets that are exactly 300, 400, 500, or 600 yards. This does not show you the deficiencies, or attributes of any of them. I'll try to take some pictures through a NF Velocity 600 for reference.

Think about this- if I posted a one inch dot at 100 yards, had you run 100 yards and back under time while I dialed your scope to hit where 470 yards should be (in air) and where a 12 mph half value wind would be (in air) would you really believe that using the reticle as such is the best way to hit that dot...?

This goes along with what Carl posted. Re- Horus Reticles. It is important to note that we have Horus reticles in every new military sniper optic because the issued Leupold scopes didn't adjust correctly.


In any case the is what it looks like-

[Linked Image]


It is the ultimate Christmas tree reticle. Every military sniper knows it and the vast majority use only the reticle instead of dialing. However, given the same drill as above NO ONE chooses to hold to hit that 1 inch dot. Not to get into the psychological and physiological aspects of shooting ( they are important), but intuitively (visually) we understand that the middle is the middle and under stress we WANT to put those crosshairs on the target.


There is no doubt that dialing is the most precise way of going about things. I was a dedicated dialer and dialer/hold for wind guy when I ran an M24 for a living. I tried a Horus scope enough to realize it worked, but is sure busy and easy to get confused in stressful situations.

I'm still a dedicated dialer for fun fart around shooting. But for hunting I'm a BDC reticle guy. What it comes down to is that every optic is a compromise, and for hunting I've yet to find a scope with turrets that has the right combination of weight, eye relief, lack of excess bulk, and most importantly all of one that won't schit it's adjustments. When that scope becomes available I may revisit the subject. The SWFA 3-9 is close, but lacking in a couple areas. Subject for a different thread.

I'm going to disagree with your "holding off in air" comment. When hunting big game (read: basketball sized vitals), especially out to 4 or 5 hundred yards (which is my ethical limit due to numerous factors), it's not tough to figure out the in between holds vertically. There's no holding in air on the windage. If I need to adjust for 12" of drift, I aim at a point on the animal 12" in the proper direction from the center of the vitals and concentrate on hitting that point. Now I realize I have to visualize what 12" looks like on the animal, and that could get me into trouble if I run into a freak of abnormal proportions. But after being around a few thousand head of the species I normally hunt, it's pretty easy to visualize where I gotta go. If a specific animal is 10 or 20% larger or smaller than the average size realm, it still puts the bullet in the vitals at these distances.

Kind of a rough rule of thumb that if I'm aiming for air on windage (or dialing in a schit load of windage), I get closer, reposition to where I have a full headwind or tailwind, or wait for the animal to reposition. What I'm getting at here is that if there's enough wind that I'm holding in air around a broadside big game animal, there's a lot of wind and the chances of phugging up the wind call and thus the shot are high. If said animal is facing me, the vitals present an even smaller target and the same rule applies.

Throw in moving animals in failing light, or a whole bunch of other possible factors and the issue becomes more complicated. So I practice for those conditions when I'm able, and make them work to the best of my abilities.

Fact remains that if the shot gets too tough, regardless of what system a guy chooses to use, he can walk away. Far better to walk away from a half-azzed shot opportunity than have to think about an animal with a blown off leg slowly dying out on a hillside...waiting to be ripped apart by predators.