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Joined: May 2011
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,352 Likes: 9 |
This is very encouraging. I will try a couple more powders and then do some penetration testing on very large bears. Fixed.
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,876 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,876 Likes: 1 |
Fireball2,
I discovered my son-in-law is a natural born bear hunter. He sees so many he doesn't even hunt them anymore. Maybe I should get him together with you and me.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Don't overlook the 120g GMX. Wrong direction in BC. .450 vs .468. You ain't that good....
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,352 Likes: 9
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,352 Likes: 9 |
Fireball2,
I discovered my son-in-law is a natural born bear hunter. He sees so many he doesn't even hunt them anymore. Maybe I should get him together with you and me. We need to take a day in the mountains with your son in law, some sammiches, Gatorade, optics, and rifles!
_______________________________________________________ An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,141 Likes: 4
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,141 Likes: 4 |
It's all about velocity.
Pushed to hypervelocity, I think Barnes are better. And I'm talking about 26 Nos and the high performance rounds Ringman likes.
I found 120 TAC-X and 120 E-Tips to be more accurate than the 127 LRX, all three out shooting the 129 ABLR, which the 26 Nos was built around.
At more reasonable velocities, the ABLR should do well.
IMO,
DF I'm just starting to work with some 150's in my 284 with R17. Initial shots hinted at very good accuracy though I've some work to do as I'd like to hit 2850-2900 fps. The 140-gr TTSX is stellar in this rifle both accuracy-wise and in velocity with R17 but on some longer range deer kills there was less (as in hardly any) expansion than desired. Hence, trying another bullet. These looked like a good bet and are only a "smidgen" longer than the mono- 140's. I don't think the velocity issue as described will be one in this cartridge.
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,401 Likes: 4 |
I have got chrono readings with Re17 [without pressure sign] that were so high, I would bet big money it was not possible: 270 130 gr NBT moly 3.34" 57.7 gr Re17, 22" barrel measures 3129, 3228, and 3228 fps.
That rifle with 4895 and that bullet is usually 2875 fps.
But once I calculate the powder charge reduction safety margin I need with Re17 wild temperature coefficient, all gains are lost.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,141 Likes: 4 |
Clark, those are certainly high numbers but not outrageously so. IIRC, and someone may correct me, but back in the 50's-60's an outdoor writer (JOC ?) mentioned filling the 270 case with H4831 and under a 130-grain for 3100 fps+. And again if memory serves with a 22" barrel.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,178 Likes: 20 |
A couple weeks ago I popped the top on a still-sealed cardboard can of mil-surp H4831 and went up to 62 grains with the 130-grain Hornady Interlock Spire Point in a 22" barrel Winchester Model 70 Classic. Average velocity was 3159 fps, without any moly on the bullets, and I could lift the bolt handle easily with the little finger of my right hand.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,178 Likes: 20 |
It's World War II powder for 20mm cannons. It was either retrieved from broken-down 20mm rounds, or powder that hadn't been loaded yet by the end of the war. Hodgdon bought tons of it and sold it as H4831 until they ran out in the early 1970's. So it's around 70 years old.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,178 Likes: 6 |
I have several pounds that I bought back in the '60's, and it was surplus back then. It still performs as well as it ever did. It's good stuff.
DF
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,888 Likes: 13
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,888 Likes: 13 |
They should be perfect for folks shooting deer with the .300 AAC blackout.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: May 2007
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,945 |
That is the bullet that I have used in various 270s to kill a mini ark full of deer. One year I actually killed 17 with it,from under 50 yards to nearly 400. None of the 17 took a step,no not one.
Now days such bullets are very unfashionable,flat base,cup in core,nonbonded with a less than ideal ballistic coeffecient.But they often are more accurate and generally can be loaded to higher velocity than the modern uberwunder bullets.
And they kill stuff really quickly because they do tend lose some of their original weight.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,507 |
Don't overlook the 120g GMX. Wrong direction in BC. The GMX (BC .450) velocity gains and accuracy eclipse the LRX BC .468) marginal BC advantage. My .260 shoots the GMX at 2910, vs the LRX at 2850. Yes on paper the LRX has less wind drift, but for hunting applications, 120 GMX shoot flatter and more importantly, is more accurate at distance.
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
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It's World War II powder for 20mm cannons. It was either retrieved from broken-down 20mm rounds, or powder that hadn't been loaded yet by the end of the war. Hodgdon bought tons of it and sold it as H4831 until they ran out in the early 1970's. So it's around 70 years old. John: Let me know if you can spare a few pounds. That Mil-Surp 4831 is all we ran in our .270's up until a couple of years ago when we ran out. It has no equal in the .270 with 130 pills.
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Joined: Oct 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,197 |
A couple weeks ago I popped the top on a still-sealed cardboard can of mil-surp H4831 and went up to 62 grains with the 130-grain Hornady Interlock Spire Point in a 22" barrel Winchester Model 70 Classic. Average velocity was 3159 fps, without any moly on the bullets, and I could lift the bolt handle easily with the little finger of my right hand. I used to buy that same powder from the old Buttreys Grocery store in Bozeman, Montana back in the late 60's in bulk paper bags for .67 cents a pound. We put in Ball canning jars to store it. Talk about the "good old days".....grin!
Luck....is the residue of design...
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 17,141 Likes: 4 |
1966: thereabouts Hamburger ~$.25
Fries ~$.25
Tall malted ~$.25
Gas ~$.25 gal
MS H4831 ~$.67 lb
Those WERE good days. 😊
Last edited by George_De_Vries_3rd; 06/27/15.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,178 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,178 Likes: 6 |
A couple weeks ago I popped the top on a still-sealed cardboard can of mil-surp H4831 and went up to 62 grains with the 130-grain Hornady Interlock Spire Point in a 22" barrel Winchester Model 70 Classic. Average velocity was 3159 fps, without any moly on the bullets, and I could lift the bolt handle easily with the little finger of my right hand. I used to buy that same powder from the old Buttreys Grocery store in Bozeman, Montana back in the late 60's in bulk paper bags for .67 cents a pound. We put in Ball canning jars to store it. Talk about the "good old days".....grin! Yep. Still had some of those bags until recently when they got so brittle, my thumb would about poke thru the side of a bag, just handling it. I transferred everything into empty powder cans, now labeled with a Magic Marker. The powder still smells good, looks good and shoots good. No dust or evidence of deterioration. DF
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2008
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A friend talked about buying a 100lb keg and splitting it with his shooting buddy in the '60's, he said it ended up costing about 30 cents a pound. When the delivery truck arrived the driver wouldn't unload it (fearing it would "blow everyone up") so they wheeled it off the truck themselves. Good times.
Golden............
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