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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,168 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,168 Likes: 5 |
A couple weeks ago I popped the top on a still-sealed cardboard can of mil-surp H4831 and went up to 62 grains with the 130-grain Hornady Interlock Spire Point in a 22" barrel Winchester Model 70 Classic. Average velocity was 3159 fps, without any moly on the bullets, and I could lift the bolt handle easily with the little finger of my right hand. I used to buy that same powder from the old Buttreys Grocery store in Bozeman, Montana back in the late 60's in bulk paper bags for .67 cents a pound. We put in Ball canning jars to store it. Talk about the "good old days".....grin! Yep. Still had some of those bags until recently when they got so brittle, my thumb would about poke thru the side of a bag, just handling it. I transferred everything into empty powder cans, now labeled with a Magic Marker. The powder still smells good, looks good and shoots good. No dust or evidence of deterioration. DF Clarification on the bags. Mine were Hodgdon one pound bags that came, IIRC, 10 to a cardboard box. I get the feeling your bags were generic paper bags filled from a drum at the store. Yep, things have changed quite a bit. I recently traded a .244 40XB that invoiced in 1966 at wholesale, $164 + $17 for SS barrel. Our dollars won't buy what those dollars would. Even with inflation, that was cheap powder and really good stuff. DF
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,173 Likes: 18
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,173 Likes: 18 |
The last batches of the old H4831 I've gotten have all been gifts. In the late 1980's Eileen and I did a road trip through the South during spring turkey season, on the way stopping to visit an older writer, Charlie Waterman, in Deland, Florida. Charlie was in his mid-70's at the time and had just decided to sell their summer/fall home in Montana and quit big game hunting, so he gave me a gallon Thermos jug of old H4831, which he'd used in his .280 to kill a pile of antelope, elk and some really big mule deer. That jug lasted until maybe 1990.
More recently a buddy ended up with several of the original waxed cardboard 1-pound "cans," also thanks to an older friend who quit hunting and shooting. That's where the unopened can came from that I recently tested against the new stuff.
One thing I do know from several tests over the years is that while the mil-surp H4831 was good stuff, and cutting-edge for its era, it was more temperature sensitive (especially in cold) that H4831SC. But then that was true of just about any powder made before the 1990's.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,745
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,745 |
Davidlea, I have done what you've said a friend did. Frankly the first look at a 100lb keg of powder is a OMG moment. But, I'm still here.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,862 Likes: 12
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,862 Likes: 12 |
A couple weeks ago I popped the top on a still-sealed cardboard can of mil-surp H4831 and went up to 62 grains with the 130-grain Hornady Interlock Spire Point in a 22" barrel Winchester Model 70 Classic. Average velocity was 3159 fps, without any moly on the bullets, and I could lift the bolt handle easily with the little finger of my right hand. Somewhere, Old Jack is nodding his head and grinnin'.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,552
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,552 |
John,
Have you done any testing of the ABLR ?
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,168 Likes: 5
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,168 Likes: 5 |
A couple weeks ago I popped the top on a still-sealed cardboard can of mil-surp H4831 and went up to 62 grains with the 130-grain Hornady Interlock Spire Point in a 22" barrel Winchester Model 70 Classic. Average velocity was 3159 fps, without any moly on the bullets, and I could lift the bolt handle easily with the little finger of my right hand. Somewhere, Old Jack is nodding his head and grinnin'. Yep... DF
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,884 |
What current powder speed compares to the old surplus 4831? Maybe 7828?
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,069 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 31,069 Likes: 4 |
What current powder speed compares to the old surplus 4831? RL22 is probably really close.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,289 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,289 Likes: 1 |
I would surmise the forward portion of the jacket is quite thin, thus the ability to expand down to 1300 fps. Here, a 129 gr 6.5mm ABLR with too much powder compression. I've compressed many different loads and bullets and NEVER seen this much ogive bent out of shape. Alan
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,869
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 28,869 |
That is discouraging, sorta. I tried them today in my 6.5SLR staring with 62.0 and going up to 67.5 grains of H4831. it is about the same capacity of a .264 Win Mag.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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