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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
Bristoe
I've lived and traveled the world and I've got to ask, where is this freedom you preach about so much? I've yet to find any place that a man is truly free. Point me in the right direction and I might make it there one day. I'd love to live free of anyone and anything, just haven't seen it yet. So what's your point? My point is you say it's simple, you're either free or you're not. I've never seen real freedom and wonder where it is. It will be right here when people like you stop fighting against it.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
I'm curious about the view of the Christians here....
In a world that I constantly hear is getting worse and worse....In a country that I constantly hear is spiraling out of control....In a country where Christians are the minority and where "persecution" is getting worse and worse....
Why would any Christian want to live in a world where service can be refused to anyone for any reason? Because if that's the case, I can see a world where my grandkids won't be able to buy anything (assuming the world is continuing to get worse as everyone seems to think). This is the only world we've got right now. 
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,967
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Yeah, I don't get upset if someone doesn't want my business. I'll just go down the road to the next guy who does. I think both parties are equally at fault as the gay people weren't harmed. They could have got a cake at many other places.But you know good and well that over half the posters here would be calling, emailing, and threatening a boycott if the same baker refused service to military members. Many of the same people who say it's the businesses right to refuse service would be the same people trying to burn it down if they refused military members.
There is no way I will believe the gay couple did not purposely seek out this baker and go for the bucks. It was a setup from the start. I'm sure they either purposefully went there or pushed the issue after they were told no. Either way they were partly at fault as I doubt this was the only cake maker around. The baker shared equally in that fault though. He could have taken many other approaches and maybe even got in some meaningful teachings of Christ in the process if that was really what he was worried about.
Don't just be a survivor, be a competitor.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,816 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,816 Likes: 3 |
This isn't Oregon.... This is Potlandia, and them running the entire state with their BS....once again, people outside of Multnomah, Marion and Lane Counties need to start getting to the voting booths a lot more often in higher numbers than they do...
elections matter...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
Living near where this happened I can assure you there is at least one more bakery around.  And, I agree with you. I was a stupidviser in a fairly large manufacturing company. I hired and fired for several departments. All races, all genders and those who were gender confused. In that kind of situation there is no room for any kind of discrimination.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,967
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,967 |
Bristoe
I've lived and traveled the world and I've got to ask, where is this freedom you preach about so much? I've yet to find any place that a man is truly free. Point me in the right direction and I might make it there one day. I'd love to live free of anyone and anything, just haven't seen it yet. So what's your point? My point is you say it's simple, you're either free or you're not. I've never seen real freedom and wonder where it is. It will be right here when people like you stop fighting against it. Yeah, I guess I've been too busy pursuing life, liberty, and happiness instead of being miserable because I don't live in Utopia. Someday perhaps.
Don't just be a survivor, be a competitor.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
Yeah, I guess I've been too busy pursuing life, liberty, and happiness instead of being miserable because I don't live in Utopia. Someday perhaps.
hmmmm,...you must not own a cake shop.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,816 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,816 Likes: 3 |
you can refuse service to anyone.... you just have to pick your reasons for doing so very very carefully....to make sure it can't be considered discriminatory...
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
.you just have to pick your reasons for doing so very very carefully....to make sure it can't be considered discriminatory... why?
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 512
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 512 |
KodiakIsland: Right is right and yadda yadda. Do you believe the current state of this country is what the men who created it meant when they wrote the documents that defined it?
You comment on Bristoe's utopia, how far is his vision do you think from those of say... Jefferson?
Or: How far is Bristoe's version of common sense from Thomas Paine's?
I wish more people would ask themselves what it really means to be an American.
If 2nd amendment rights can be subject to licensing and fees, how was the poll tax unconstitutional?
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,967
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Were people in this country ever free or did they just trade one government for another. The ideal the founders had in mind never came to fruition and it's been continually perverted ever since.
My success and happiness comes from playing by the rules I'm given, changing what I can and accepting what I can't. If I'm not willing to abide by the rules, I don't play the game. I can be bitter over what should be, or I can be happy with what is.
Don't just be a survivor, be a competitor.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,967
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,967 |
Yeah, I guess I've been too busy pursuing life, liberty, and happiness instead of being miserable because I don't live in Utopia. Someday perhaps.
hmmmm,...you must not own a cake shop. No I don't. I'm not willing to abide by the rules so I don't make cakes. Not for the public anyway.
Don't just be a survivor, be a competitor.
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
Were people in this country ever free or did they just trade one government for another. The ideal the founders had in mind never came to fruition and it's been continually perverted ever since.
My success and happiness comes from playing by the rules I'm given, changing what I can and accepting what I can't. If I'm not willing to abide by the rules, I don't play the game. I can be bitter over what should be, or I can be happy with what is.
If you were the judge, would you make the cake shop give the dykes $135,000 for not baking them a cake? Don't dodge here and there with the answer. Just a simple yes or no.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,095 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,095 Likes: 6 |
Kodiak has it right.
I keep hearing about "obeying God"....Where in the Bible does it say to not bake a cake for gay people? Where in the constitution does it say a business must produce anything that its owners don't want to?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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If I was the judge and the law said that's what the fine was for not making a butch cake, then yes I would fine them that. A judge is supposed to rule by the law. It wouldn't mean I agreed with it, but I would be bound to enforce it.
Don't just be a survivor, be a competitor.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 512
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 512 |
Argument over. Thank you.
If 2nd amendment rights can be subject to licensing and fees, how was the poll tax unconstitutional?
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
Kodiak has it right.
I keep hearing about "obeying God"....Where in the Bible does it say to not bake a cake for gay people? Where in the constitution does it say a business must produce anything that its owners don't want to? It doesn't. Duh.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,095 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,095 Likes: 6 |
If I was the judge and the law said that's what the fine was for not making a butch cake, then yes I would fine them that. A judge is supposed to rule by the law. It wouldn't mean I agreed with it, but I would be bound to enforce it. It's not a fine, it's a judgment for damages in a civil case.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634 |
KodiakIsland: Right is right and yadda yadda. Do you believe the current state of this country is what the men who created it meant when they wrote the documents that defined it?
You comment on Bristoe's utopia, how far is his vision do you think from those of say... Jefferson?
Or: How far is Bristoe's version of common sense from Thomas Paine's?
I wish more people would ask themselves what it really means to be an American. And your argument speaks to a "reasonable Man" standard... how is 135,000 dollars a reasonable standard for making up for a cake they refused to bake in plenty of time for them to choose another bakery? I have absolutely no beef with lesbians being treated reasonably, but I have seen far, far worse offenders in court being punished with far, far less. Even in situations where lives were put in serious jeopardy the consequences were a fraction of 135,000 dollars. A friend had an employee steal 50k and the court-mandated restitution was less than 5k! The judge needs to realize this was a publicity stunt from the get-go and that the bakery was being set up. Unless of course the judge was a peter puffer in which case they should have abstained from taking the case. And I could not possibly care less about anyone's sexual peccadilloes as long as they are not waved in my face.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 512
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 512 |
My success and happiness comes from playing by the rules I'm given, changing what I can and accepting what I can't. If I'm not willing to abide by the rules, I don't play the game. I can be bitter over what should be, or I can be happy with what is.
Not everybody is willing to allow others to define the parameters of their lives. Enjoy your existence, it may or may not be the only one you get.
If 2nd amendment rights can be subject to licensing and fees, how was the poll tax unconstitutional?
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