Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Understanding The Civil War More Clearly

That's true,...but the first group doesn't realize that both of the dominant political parties consider *them* to be the unruly ones.

In a way, yes. Imagine belonging to a European power now.

Does anyone think Napoleon was really "finished"'with Louisiana after his people worked out the deal with Jefferson? He had an idea where he could invade a it would all be on the up and up!!! Breach of contract!!!

Bristoe

Really enjoyed reading your posts on the war of northern aggression

Reading this thread and others like it reminds me that it's nice to know history; as the man said, "those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it."

What have we learned from this so that we don't repeat it?

The lesson I'm seeing is don't start a war with someone that can out produce you. Don't start a war with someone who has a better supply system than you.

But other than that, what? Don't have an economy based on slaves? Okay, let's promise not to do that again. Now, what else?

It's fun to rehash old battles with coulda, shoulda, woulda, next week let's refight Gallipolli and Agincourt. But you can't change history one tiny bit. Crying about it, wishing it were different, none of that does anything. Whatever actually happened, actually happened. You can change the future but the only time you have to do that is in the present. (deep thought right there - let's get back to that momentarily).

What I see as a major theme in all these CW, WONA, WBTS or other acronym threads is what a rotten deal the South got, and as an extension the entire country got. And everybody arguing that point wants everybody else to admit that the South was in the right and the North led by Mr. Lincoln was in the wrong. Okay, be it resolved - "The South Got A Rotten Deal!". The argument is settled once and for all. The South henceforth and forevermore held the political and moral High Ground of Freedom. Those rotten, despicable men from the North despoiled the highest achievement of genteel civilization that ever existed. Let's have a moment of silence for the shining glory that was the antebellum South. Good, glad we got that out of the way so we can quit rehashing it ad infinitum.

But, it's gone. Forever. Never to return. Hasn't existed for 150 years. Too bad. How long are we gonna cry over it?

Now we're here. 2015. What happened, happened, and we are where are are - economically, politically and socially. For better or worse, here we are.


So, what are we going to do now? What lessons from history have we learned that we can apply now to change the future?

The empire is in its death throes. The best thing to do is stay out of its way as best as possible until it has expired.

Empires have a habit of killing off a lot of people during their grand finale.

Good read:

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/04/no_author/killing-for-the-sake-of-it/

excerpt:

As empires collapse, they turn inward, and subject their own populations to the same ill treatment to which they subjected others. Here, America is unexceptional: the number of Americans being murdered by their own police, with minimal repercussions for those doing the killing, is quite stunning. When Americans wonder who their enemy really is, they need look no further.

Here's the countdown.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

And to answer the Freedom vs Security, it would appear that Mr. Orwell nailed it..............................

“The choice for mankind lies between freedom and happiness and for the great bulk of mankind, happiness is better.”

"So, what are we going to do now? What lessons from history have we learned that we can apply now to change the future?"

The lesson we should learn is that we should never ever forget what happened in the past for that is the History, once forgotten is soon repeated again. And once forgotten it leaves the door open to be rewritten and falsified.

Again from George Orwell..........................

“He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.”

And as was quoted in another thread ....................
"Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”
― George Orwell, 1984"

That's a lesson I fortunately learned in the first few days of basic training and it has stuck with me all these years.


Minding my own business... "here comes the sh*t, better step aside." Step aside. Whooossshhhh!!! sound of sh*t passing by. "Okay, there goes the sh*t, back to what I was doing."

The lesson is universal enough that it can be applied on a micro or macro scale...

I was blown away recently to read that, during stalemate at Petersburg in late 1864 the Army if Northern Virginia was blowing off 37,000 rifle-musket rounds per day. This from an army on its last legs.

At Gettysburg an estimated 1.5 million small arms rounds fired off by each side during the three day battle. As I understand it, all those paper or linen cartridges were rolled mostly by hand by someone, somewhere. I can find no estimate of cannon ammunition fired except estimates of somewhere in excess of 2,000 rounds.

We generally talk of armies moving this way and that, represented by arrows on the maps, without considering the enormous logistics necessary to make that happen....

http://columbiadailyherald.com/sections/opinion/columns/moving-army-civil-war-logistics.html

It is an axiom in the military — amateurs study tactics while professionals study supply.

At this point in 1862 the army commanders of both the Union and Confederate forces were just coming to grips with the problems of maintaining an army on campaign. Think of how much a teenager, or a young 20-something can eat. Multiply that amount by three times a day, and again by 30 days in a month. Then multiply it again by thousands, then tens of thousands. That is the amount of food needed. Add in the needed extra clothes, arms, equipment, ammunition, buttons, tents, sewing needles, buckles, bayonets, beer, boots and blankets.

All of this material, bought from a thousand suppliers in thousands of places, had to be shipped, accumulated, sorted, and distributed to the troops. Ships and trains carried the goods. Thousands of men were needed to load the ships and trains. Thousands more were needed to unload the ships and trains, and then repack it all into army wagons to be carried along with the armies. Hundreds and thousands of wagons pulled by mules and horses; hungry mules and horses. They have to eat, too — and fodder is a bulky load. More wagons and mules were needed just to haul the fodder. The farther the army got from its railhead, the more transportation it required. At 10 miles from the railhead supply problems became difficult, at 25 miles men and mules were hungry, and at 50 miles they began to starve.

And what of the sick and wounded? They had to be transported to the rear, hopefully to a hospital. Wounded horses and mules were simply put out of their misery, but disabled men had to be moved. More wagons, more mules, more fodder, more men, more food. More, more, more. Civil War armies had a huge logistical “tail” that reached all the way back to its sources. This tail had to be protected at all costs, and this took even more men — and wagons — and mules.

Take a look at just about any map showing the major battles fought during the Civil War. Nearly all were fought within a few miles of a railroad or a navigable water way. The strategy and tactics of the Civil War took a backseat to the logistics that fed the armies. Often mules were more important than generals.

What amazes me they could pull all this off in an age of pen-and-ink communication.

Birdwatcher

Another trivia question:


What Union commander was forced into an action with a Confederate unit commanded by his son in law that wound up being a major embarrassment for the Union and allowed the Confederacy to eventually stop the Union advance?

Here is another question that my students often missed on exams or quizzes:


Name the meeting place and the city where it was located that the end to Reconstruction was negotiated?

JEB Stuart being chased behind Union lines by his father-in-law. BTW, JEB had named his son after him until the war broke out and they were on opposite sides. JEB then renamed the boy.

Yet more trivial questioning.


What future very famous and important American general was caught up in the midst of a "Swoop & Hooraw" raid by Confederate guerrillas when he was a young boy?

Right on. The war tore the families apart.

Phillip St. George Cooke's (himself a native Virginian) son John Rogers Cooke also became a Confederate officer.

If you are reading the Tindall and Shi History text back to 50 years before the war also read read through the turn of the 20th Century to get an idea of how the war impact future events.

Be especially mindful to look for salient events that changed for good or ill the relationship between North and South.

Some more for the reading list:

This will add a good overall look at how the war impacted the South:


http://www.amazon.com/Burden-Southe...;keywords=the+burden+of+southern+history

This book looks at how the modern media has shaped the perceptions of the South:

http://www.amazon.com/Media-Made-Di...amp;sr=1-1&keywords=media+made+dixie

John J. Pershing.

We were brothers, before, during and after the civil war. What we will be experiencing shortly will require more brotherhood than heretofore imaginable. The post Obama years are going to be tough, but we are all Americans.