Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Powder recommendations

Ok, I'm looking to cook up what will probably be my "all everything" load in 223 and 308 and I'm leaning hard towards trying to use one powder for both. As for parameters:

Temp stable. It's gotten to single digits here the last two years (though to be honest I'd rather not be shooting when it's like that) and not only does it get hot and humid but I have relatives in TX I visit and the way the family schedule works I'm always there in July/August. (thank God they have a pool) Triple digits aren't remotely uncommon when I'm down there.

I'll be using hunting type bullets (nothing fancy, think Hornady Interlock or similar, not settled on that yet) so while obviously more accurate is better match accuracy isn't the point. (actually bullet suggestions are welcome)

Related to above safe velocity, even in high temperature, is more important than guilt edged accuracy.

The 223 loads will be for gas guns only but the 308 load will be expected to work in both AR and bolt platforms.

My first inclination would be Varget but I'd be just as likely to obtain unicorn horn or Victoria's Secret supermodel panties to load with so that's not viable. What might fit the bill that I can get hold of:

8208
H4895
R15 This might not meet temp stable requirement from what I've read
TAC Not sure about this one's temp stability either
4166 Would seem to be perfect on paper but awfully new

Any other recommendations are welcome if they seem suitable and might actually be available.

Thanks for any and all input.

Twist and what bullet weight will be a factor.

Probably should have mentioned that;

Both 223 AR's are 1-7

The bolt 308 is a 1-11 while the AR is 1-10.

Bullet weight isn't fully settled but I'm leaning upper middle (223 60ish/308 165ish) for each unless a good argument can be made to the contrary. (I'm pretty open minded at the moment)

8208, 4895, and RL-15 would be my picks. I like TAC also in .223 but never tried it with .308. From what I have seen, RL-15 isn't as sensitive as people like to make it out to be. I have used it in a lot of .223 and .308 loads and seen no significant changes. Although, its never a good idea to develop loads that flatten primers in the winter and expect them to work well in the summer. That applies to any powder. Try it all and see what gives you the best accuracy. None of them are temp sensitive enough to make a big difference.

Varget. Hands down of the ones mentioned that I've tried.

Its amazing how long I could leave a loaded round sit in a HOT chamber in the 100 degree temps here, like up to 5 minutes and not have the round go out of the group at 100 or have an abnormal speed spike over the chrono.

Yeah, if I had access to any decent amount of Varget I think my search would have been over before it started. Alas, I don't recall the last time I saw any in stock anywhere.

If Varget simply isn't a viable option what would you nominate as best substitute?

I use TAC in my bolt .308 under 130 gr tipped TSX's and I also currently use it in my .223 AR. I would ask Mule Deer any questions about temp sensitivity and various powders. He has some first hand knowledge and is also in communication with those in the business.

Varget seems best for me.

Varget is around. Just have to wait a bit at times. Think it took 6 months to find an order with some 8s in it.

6 months isn't long at least IMHO.

Beyond that, I did a bit of TAC testing and didn't have issues with it, but not near as much testing as varget.

RL15 is a bit more sensitive but depending on your heat ranges, likely an ok move.

4895 did not impress me in the heat as much as I thought it would. Accurate yes. Slow yes. Temp sensitive, a bit more so than I cared for.

I have no experience with 8208 and no experience with 4166. I have at least 8 lbs each of H4895, R15, TAC and Varget - that's oart of the reason I haven't bought some of the newer powders now available.

My own choice is TAC in the 223/5.56x45 and Varget in the .308/7.62x51.

My suggestion, assuming using one powder for both is that important, is H4895 as the most universally useful of the powders mentioned including reduced loads and less popular cartridges that don't have data for newer powders (that might work as well or better but haven't been shot in the labs).

I wouldn't and don't worry much about RL15 (believed to be about the same as Norma 203B) being temperature sensitive. I understand that Norma qualifies all their own powders for military use to include aircraft guns which themselves go from a pretty chilly cold soak to fairly hot and I further understand that RL15 specifically has been qualified for military use. Seems to me a search on the powders + temperature for comments here by others will say about the same thing from a more knowledgeable source.

Another one to consider that seems to fill the same niche as TAC is Hodgdon's CFE223.

For me, Varget, Tac, BLC-2, and WC-846 (same burn as BLC-2), all seem to work well with both the .223 & .308. That being said, I seem to get slightly better accuracy using Tac & Varget. Some days better with Varget, others with Tac.

I don't know about now, but WC-846 used to be easily bought, and was readily available form "Pats reloading" and "Jeff Barletts"

http://patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.aspx
http://www.gibrass.com/index.html

Below is a link to a informative article on these powders:

http://www.223reloads.com/home/223-5-56-info/223-5-56-reloading/wc-846-loads

Good luck in your powder search.

Respects,
Richard

Just wanted to thank everyone who replied. I've put my name on the list for some Varget so now the wait begins. I ran into a pound of 8208 so I'll play with that for awhile to amuse myself. Who knows, maybe that'll work out great.

I would not dismiss TAC.

I know TAC has a LOT of fans. If I run across any locally I'll absolutely give it a try.

If I had to choose, for my rifles, I like both TAC & Varget (if one is able to locate any). I use TAC with light bullets 36 - 50 grain, and Varget with the 55 and up. Both will consistently shoot sub .05" groups using a Rem VS-SF, and sub 1" with the AR platforms.

Respects,
Richard

holy crud, thats TINY groups even from a factory bolt gun!

Need to jump in the 'postal match' with the AR if you have not done so yet then.

Don't know about temp stability, but have found 4064 extreme accuracy in both cals..
I have shot more .308's then I can list.
This is going to sound crazy but the best group I ever shot was with my custom Arisaka .308 that had been rebarrled using 4064 and a plain vanilla Hornady 165 spire point.


Several sub 3/4 inch groups with my Bushmaster Predator and 4064

H4895
Varget
8208 XBR
RL15
In that order. First three are temp stable but RL15 is still good.

TAC w60 grain. Max

LT32.