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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,008
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,008 |
OK , now , I'm not recommending the practice of using those hot handloads that generate around 70000 psi .
But considering the bolt thrust issue , could someone explain why loading an 06 to 70000 psi is harder on your rifle and more dangerous than chambering it to a WSM cartridge , and loading that cartridge to the SAAMI recommended level of 65000 psi ?
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,259 Likes: 1 |
Bolt thrust is a BS subject - irrelevant to this topic.
An overpressure load is most likely to slit your chamber, barrel and action ring. See the picture in my link above of the exploded Steyr Mannlicher.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,008
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,008 |
OK , so if bolt thrust is irrelevant , and chamber slitting is the real issue , why does not the thicker 06 chamber give you about the same safety factor at 70000 , as does a relatively thin WSM chamber at 65000 psi ?
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 167
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 167 |
WOW.......... I can get a 165 to go 3000 with RE22 but not a 180, I would be careful
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 179
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 179 |
JBledsoe is going to handle his '06 the same way I do:
"Anyway I'll stay with the 2700s and if I need more speed I have a 300 Win Mag that takes care of that need very well."
I think that is a good answer. Let the thrillseeker-types worry about pushing the limits.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
The Barrel on Fadala's gun was made right up the road from my place,.... "The rusty iron".... very classified, spooky, and stealth like... as to how this is possible <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />.....there's been rumours of " fast Vs. Slow" barrels....... My only observation is that 4831, and 4350 "Cactus Jack" loads are as hot as I wish to play, in this case capacity arena... 300 Mag dittos GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
Note that he did not mention checking the pressures for that load. I too saw some very impressive fps in various rifles. That all changed when I started measuring pressure. Some loads were north of 70,000 psi and showing no excessive pressure signs. Now, the best that I have seen from my 30-06 is around 2800fps with 180 gr bullets and a 24 inch barrel. Put a couple of inches on the 30-06 and Federal High Energy loads will give you about 3000fps.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179 |
I documented the same thing observed by Stan Watson (that traditional pressure signs do not usually show up until pressure is too high already) in an article for HANDLOADER several years ago. I even found measuring case heads an iffy proposition.
In that case I worked up loads for the .22 Hornet, .270 Winchester and .30-06 using both traditional signs (bolt lift, primer appearance, case head marks, primer pocket tightness) as well as measuring case heads. Then I had them pressure-tested on piezo equipment. Some turned out OK, but some turned out way off. The .270 loads, for instance, averaged around 68,000 psi.
Since then I have continued testing along the same lines and decided that measuring case heads is just as erratic as traditional pressure signs. Have measured new belted brass from two different major manufacturers that expanded .004 and .02 inch with THE SAME LOAD, and the brass in each case weighed just about the same from both makers. Now, how can we tell what pressure we're getting from an arbitrary case-head measurement if you consider that?
Have found that you can come reasonably close to the same pressure as factory loads if:
1) You shoot some factory loads, and average the case-head expansion.
2) Pull the bullets from the rest of the factory loads, then work up handloads to the same amount of expansion.
Most of us don't do it that way, though.
Also, keep in mind that when the 7mm STW was turned into a factory load, Remington tested several "standard" handloads that had not created traditional pressure signs in custom rifles, and found that almost all were above 70,000 psi.
JB THANKS for resurrecting this thread from 06. I not only haven't seen it but didn't know about it. THANKS M D - for this INFORMATIVE piece of work.I know you've covered part of this material since I joined the 'fire' but this article PUTS IT ALL TOGETHER. It really helps to give a better understanding of how 'FINIKY' & indefinite pressure can be w/o actually pressure testing the loads. Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,147 Likes: 23
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,147 Likes: 23 |
Wow- talking about the Phoenix rising from the ashes!!! 2006! easiest way to hit 3000 with a 180 in '06 is to move the front sky screen 1/2" closer to the back one, works every time! 
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,231 Likes: 9
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,231 Likes: 9 |
Wow- talking about the Phoenix rising from the ashes!!! 2006! easiest way to hit 3000 with a 180 in '06 is to move the front sky screen 1/2" closer to the back one, works every time! Now, that's an elegant solution. 3,000 print out, full bragging rights with shooter and rifle still intact...  DF
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,120 Likes: 8
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,120 Likes: 8 |
FWIW,
When I had 26.5" of barrel on my heavy 30-06 I was getting moly'd 190gr SMKs to 2920 fps via RL22 in Norma brass.
QL predicted pressure at 60,500 lbs-psi.
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