Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire First Women graduate from Ranger course

Coming from a man who has, "been there and done that!" Right on David!

Meanwhile, back at the facts, the Israelis have had women in the front lines pretty much from "go," and are largely considered one of the best fighting forces in the world.

My experience is guys who don't want women in traditionally "male" roles are afraid of being shown up by "girls," and I've seen enough of it to be certain of my statement.

All I know is that due to some physical limitations I was born with, I could never even make at least a good showing before being cut! I don't know if there was any political pressure or not, i am inclined to give the Army the benefit of doubt here. My own though's of on the matter is what is the point? Since they can't go to a Ranger Regiment or to the Green Beret's, its seems to me the tap is being reduced down to a merit badge. Ok I understand that there is a pecking order and thay you have to do things along the way when promotion time comes along! I can live with it since what I think of the matter is a moot point, since I am just an old has been. As long as they keep the standards were they should be fine, if they end up with two sets of rules and standards, then the nation will really be ill served! War and War fighting is a serious business! You would think our leaders and the Generals would know that!

One's in Aviation, the other's an MP.

Not exactly MOS's normally associated with Ranger School.

First, let me say I'm not arguing either way since I don't know exactly what they had to do relative to what the the standards were before they were there.

That said, there are problems with your logic. If your logic holds, then by your own standard you have no right to sound off either.

But does your logic hold anyway? Does someone personally have to be a first rate singer to say Pavarotti was better then William Hung?

I'm not complaining about Rangers who are not women. I'm telling those who are not Rangers to stand down and let the Rangers have a say on the Rangers.

On the subject of guys complaining about "girls," I stand by my earlier post.

David, your is a strategy common to someone loosing the argument. You become a bully in an attempt to exclude others from the argument instead of addressing the actual arguments themselves. Considering you are what, a Lt. Colonel or Colonel in the Guard, it doesn't surprise me that you would attempt to pull rank and bully the members when the conversation was not going your way.

Well I have news for you. Your authority to quell dissent just because it's your will does not extend to public forums.

As for myself, I do not hold the tab, but I did serve 7 years, most of it in mixed units. During the time I did meet some fine female warriors, but not many. I could count them all on one hand. And even those fine female warriors, not one of them every volunteered to hump the M-60, and not one could not pass the male PT standards. NOT ONE OF THEM.

In the real world, the realities are even more start. When you are in an environment that requires extensive marching, 80% of the females couldn't even march with the men due to pelvic stress fractures They had medical profiles, which basically divided the platoon into two marching orders, one male, and one female. The female pelvis is much lighter and wider them the male pelvis to facilitate child birth. This lighter structure make it more susceptible to stress fracture, which affects their capability to even march with male soldiers.

It was always fun, male soldiers would arrive on time, and then we would have to wait around for the females.

Don't get me wrong. Females can be useful in defensive and mounted operations where they don't need to carry anything, but when it time to dismount for long range patrols in Injun country, it's time to leave the females at home.

As for these girls passing the "same standards", I guarantee they did not pass the male ranger PT standards, and the males soldiers didn't get the same three tries either. This just goes to beg the question, how much of their passing was political, and how much was merit?

In the real world, gender has little to do with accomplishment.

I'm stating factually what I have observed in the device since 1976.

Gender and capability are not tied in any reasonable manner that I have observed.

Pulling rank? Never have, don't think I ever will.

I'm asking those who have BTDT to comment.

I've had 40-ish years of "they" can't do it and only "we" can.

My observations, stated clearly, are that these positions and views are false.

Of course you were trying to pull rank. You tried to tell me to shut up. Are you going to apologize?

When was the last time one of the females under your command volunteered to hump the M-60 and 400 rounds of ball ammo on a long range patrol?

And, didn't the guys who graduated with them state the standards were not lowered? Are those Soldiers liars?

Did they pass the male Range PT standards, which is around 60 push-ups?

When was the last time one of the females under your command volunteered to hump the M-60 and 400 rounds of ball ammo on a long range patrol?

Those soldiers said they did. I believe them.

My wing commander, the only woman to command an Air Guard wing, ever, and the first in the USAF, was in the first group of women to win and air assault badge as a CAPT When she was a Soldier. She is also a triathlete.

And I have a friend who was an enlisted Soldier in the second class with females. She can do a hundred push-ups any day.

So, yes, I know one who can, and the EOD major who works for me, and Mrs Walter who was a fire fighter, and tens of others....

I guess I just hang out with the tough women.

I have some familiarity with Rangers as my father was one. Standards have indeed slipped since my fathers time. It used to be, you had one additional chance to re-pass a section, period. After that, the CO sent you elsewhere.

Women are mentally tough, cooler under fire than males, and can withstand a TON of pain - all of this is documented, not hearsay.

But they simply do NOT have the strength of a man, and that is critical in CQ, infil, and exfil. They WILL slow the squad down, and that risks the mission. So they do not belong in ground combat roles, period.

Also, earning a Ranger tab is impressive. However, "Army Rangers" serve in the 75th Ranger Regiment and complete RASP, which is one hell of a lot tougher than Ranger School...

Show me in the article where is says the passed the MALE pt standards. You've been in 40 years, you now females have a much lower standard. In addition, those push ups have to be done in 2 minutes. The world record for consecutive female push-ups is only 50. I was unable to find an official 2 minute record.

As for your friend that earned her Air Assault badge, that's great. Of course Air Assault school is a walk in the park compared to Ranger School.

Maybe some of you (ok, most of you) should read a little more on this story...

http://www.businessinsider.com/first-women-to-earn-army-ranger-tab-2015-8

I can say this, if the SHTF I would take either of those two over any single one of the mostly fat, old, pathetic white dudes mouthing off on here...

The Baby Boomer Male Mindset lives on!

Where are all the 'thank you for your service' comments that everyone here throws out to any and everyone who 'served'???

According to the article, one humped the M240 on day one of patrols, and the radio on day two, and switched these off with another female, and passed the same PT standards, including 49 push-ups.

If that's the case, I'll give credit where credit it due.

However another article noted that patrols with female members had a higher failure rate then those without. Of course I could say the same about certain male soldiers I trained with.

This

In the real World, decisions have consequences. Sacrificing your productive capacity has bad effects.

Well, I think that's the point AS.

What they accomplished was impressive. The fact that so many (male and female) counterparts failed only accentuates that fact. I don't see percentages having much to do with their feats.

Kudos to them, and the guys, who made it through an incredibly demanding course.