Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Getting tired of this

Why the fuss about traditional vs inline?Both ARE muzzleloaders, both misfire occasionally, both are subject to the same principals of ignition and operation ( with allowances made for spark chuckers of course)both will miss if improperly aimed. I shoot a repop P-53 Enfield rifle musket as well as a T/C Omega and my 16 year old daughter hunts exclusively with a scoped Traditions Tracker with which she has been good enough to bag 2 deer with 2 shot at 100 and 115 yards.We are happy with our ordnance and we do not feel any negatives about hunting with these rifles. Although smokeless in a muzzleloader is safe in one designed for it I am nervous about them. However I would never make a negative comment to or about a brother hunter so armed.His use does not in any way positively or negatively impact my day in the woods. Game animals are not targets and as elementary as it sounds they bleed and feel pain.If a hunter decides to use a modern inline ( btw the first inline system was patented in the 1830's I read somewhere) and sabots ( which the artillery has been using for 500 years) to give him or her a chance to put that animal down quickly and cleanly then BRAVO. Kudos as well to the more traditional (and probably more experienced) shooter who taps off a round ball or minie.Inlines can also be an entry level tool as well.Minimum expense to see if the " muzzleloader game " is all its cracked up to be.I know more than a few who started with inlines and went to sidelocks or sparkchuckers.The same can bee seen in archery circles with the resurgence of recurves an long bows.Heck , I giggle every year about the guys who look down their noses at my Marlin 336 . 30-30 until they see th sub inch 3 rounders it shoots at 100 yards and some are still slack jawed at how fast a deer drops to a nice pokey 'ol 150 round nose. Could we all try to get to the point where our personal preferences and experiences are just that? We can and should share them ( the greatest storytellers are hunters) and laugh at the misses and rejoice in the kill.Lets give the DNR's and F&G people a break too, their's is a tough row to hoe.Satisfy the traditionalists as well as the moderns and allow for weapons,loads and sights that will also minimize the number of crippled and wounded deer running around after each season.Shoot whats legal, shoot what you like and if you see someone lugging something different than yours ask them how they like it and smile that there's another person who pays the way for wildlife and wild places JUST LIKE YOU DO...Thanks for the opportunity to rank abit...

I agree with your post whole heartedly, but you know that there will be some that feels that if you don't do it the same as them, it's wrong and should be banned. miles

Now that just makes to much flippin sense man,,,,,,,,but I shure do agree,,,problem is people are out to stir the pot and make a buck and other people are all to happy to jump on in,,

Good post.

Very Very Very well said NO BUTS ABOUT IT !!!!! I say again,,,,, VERY WELL SAID. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

ABSOLUTELY!! Nicely done.

Yup, so am I. Well said Double30.


Check your PM's Double30 . . .

I agree whole heartly,but right now there are traditionalist who are stired up over the toby thing.They are at war right now.They are not only doing their best to support the states that dont allow scopes but they are now emailing and writing states that have nothing to do with it.They want scopes,sabots and all smokeless out of muzzleloader seasons.They would like nothing better than to ban inlines from all muzzle loader seasons and have gone as far as wanting them even out of shotgun sesons.they are emailing and writing every state.
I have 5 trad guns and 1 inline and i could care less whats going on out west or any other state but when they start messing with what we have enjoyed in my state for the past 20 years i get a little teedoff.
Maybe its time we as muzzleloader hunters started thinking about whats good for all of us not just a greedy few who want it their way cause they just dont want to share the woods or the tags.The hard core trad crowd right now are at war with inlines in a most serious manner.Will it be their last stand or will they finaly get what they want.We can set back and wait if we want,hoping they will be seen as the greedy people they are or we can try and fix the damage before it happens.
Maybe all of us as muzzleloader hunters who belive in freedom of choice need to form a group or join one.At present i belong to no group or assocaition.

Once upon a time there was a deer hunting season. Then some traditional minded folks in various locations around the country got together and persuaded many states to institute muzzleloader seasons for certain game.

Since then, in an effort to lure hunters to extra days afield after their game of choice, a sizeable industry has burgeoned, which has sought and accomplished production of a firearm, which does load from the muzzle, but which also uses newly designed propellants, projectiles, ignition and sighting systems. The end result is that past about 100, or so, yards the external ballistics is more akin to centerfire firearms. With some variations, most States have allowed the use of these "muzzleloaders" in the seasons which were originally intended for real muzzleloaders.

That started a slow simmering feud. Now, some inline proponents are beginning to lobby some States to alter their regs to allow inlines with additional modern capabilities. One of them has even insinuated that the patched round ball be re-visited for its continued use afield.

The traditional minded folks have had it and will now wage a relentless campaign to return the muzzleloading season to the implement for with it was intended.

Regards, sse

I thought that it was intended for an implement that loaded from the muzzle. miles

miles - If you're not being sarcastic, then you're simply mistaken. The season wasn't intended for something that didn't exist at the time the regs were promulgated.

Regards, sse

Yes,but these inlines have been in some of the season for 20 years now.Inline shooters have been scorned and called just about every thing in the book since the internet has taken off.Some of us have had it also.I now know what group i will be a part of.Right now most muzzeloader shooters are not standing togeather.Maybe that will change someday when every one accepts that we should have a freedom of choice when it comes to muzzleloader season.Your gonna have a tuff road ahead of you once the word gets out just what you guys have plained for the rest of us.

Man, I couldn't agree with you more. I just want to tell the folks who don't believe all "muzzeloaders" are ok, to 'STAY THE HELL OUT OF ARIZONA". Go cry somewhere else!

Jerry

Double 30 said....."( btw the first inline system was patented in the 1830's I read somewhere)"

Am thinkin' this is something that's been missed by lotsa folks in this fray.....be curious to know the exact facts associated with that.

Also wonderin', if back in the day, the matchlock savy folks made a bitch fest over the advent of the flintlock for meat gatherin' use....or the flinters made a fuss over the advent of the percussion cap...

The transition to breech loaded cartridge weapons musta raised a stink with the front stuffers...if the logic held today holds true.

Those Civil War Guys musta sat 'round the Ol' Campfire all bowed up and favorin' their sore balls whinin', "Those darn centerfire cartridge repeaters are gonna bring this war to ruin....."

I'd rather sit on the porch for a week and listen to 15 old women nag on their old men and bitch about their ailments with a sharp stick in my eye than listen to this stupid traditional vs. modern "argument".

I was being sarcastic. As long as my state say's that I can use an Inline, that is what I will do. I use a muzzleloader to extend my season, not so I can spend a lot of time cussing and cleaning. I have killed them with sidelocks and with inlines and also with a crossbow ( that makes the bow hunters mad). The deer don't seem to give a damn. miles

I don't care what anyone shoots. If it loads from the front it is a muzzleloader in my eyes and that even goes for the smokeless shooters. I hate the I'm better than you attitude. Can't we all just get along. We are all out there for the same reason. We want to do things differently, some just chose to do it easier than others. This I'm better than you reminds me of the same BS that the "purist" fly fisherman do to other trout fisherman who use hardware and worms. It don't cut it in my book.

I don�t think it�s a better then you attitude ,.IMO that�s just another excuse such ask wearing dead mans cloths or leather under wear .
Myself ? Well to its a question of why do we
�chose� to shoot muzzleloaders ?
If its to get another season ? Simply comply with the reasons for that season and why they were established in your area .
If its to get another animal ? Then push for a longer general rifle season .

If its to experience the hunt with all the complications ,uncertainties and short range of a weapon then why add all the new fangled gadgets to take away from that ?

Here we go again! I live in Pennsylvania and we have a flintlock only season after Christmas.Used to be round balls only.Now the allow fiber op sights but not apertures ( too modern?)and now you may use rb's minies , maxi's and sabots. I use my inlines in the early antlerless season and in the special regulation areas( shotgun or frontstuffer only).The nice thing about any muzzleloader is that it does force you to pick your shots carefully and it is more relaxing to me anyway.I take the time in between shot to swab her out and replay the shot in my mind.It also gives me a chance to get my pulse rate back int the double digit range.Like it or not in an area of heavy hunting pressure , someone with a muzzleloader is at a severe disadvantage in the woods loaded with breechloaders.In the event of a dead deer running or a questionable hit there is no fast second shot.Unfortunately deer hunting on public land can be quite competitive ( shame on us all for that).I havent seen that tendency in the muzzleloader community in the 10 years I've been using them.It almost seems that people equate modern muzzleloaders with single shot breechloaders.Not a good comparison.In fact , after nearly 10 years as a Confederate reenactor I can , with an empty Enfield rifle musket at shoulder arms,load aim and fire in 19 seconds.I can get 3 rounds per minute without breaking a sweat and can hit with every round.I cannot equal that rate of fire with my Omega.I limit myself to shots no farther than 125 yards.To me shooting past that with muzzle or breech loader is more shooting than hunting and most of my kills with either weapon are under 50 yards. We do ourselves and our sport great disservice and injury by way of this arguement .We all wind up looking foolish.If a specific season was set up for a specific purpose then work within it.In fairness though , these game agencies use these seasons for controlling game populations.Specifing weapon types is a happy benifit to them achieving their goals else they might have lessened the firearms season to compensate for the muzzleloader kills.And Captchee I'm sorry to say all the complications , uncertainties and short range limitations ( for the average hunter) still exist for the inliner.I have found that it is easier to get an accurate load developed for my Enfield than it was for either my Daughter's Traditions Tracker or my Omega.We all need to examine our motives and expectations here before we gather ourselves a whopping black eye.

Double30
so why then not use your enfeild ?



you are most certainly correct about that . but only when confined to reason .
In fact IMO if the modern weapon is confined to the same loads as traditional ones , IE PRB . Solid lead bore size conical , open sights , exposed ignition . Traditional weapons are far superior . Well I should say most


If you add in , palletized powders , stingers , sabots carrying specialized long range bullets . Add on variable scope , smokeless powder and I would have to disagree whole hardily

so are they gonna ban compound bows during archery season?
i want a special season for people who hunt w/ a cue ball in a wool sock.

Compound bows? Well, I used to hunt with a compound. My accuracy range was set at 25 yards for optimum and I didn't exceed that. Now, I hunt with a long bow and my accuracy range is 20 yards and I won't exceed that. Yup. That compares quite favorably with 75 to 100 yards vs 175 to 200 yards...as the manufacturers claim.

Of course, then there's that argument that the pioneers would have used them if they'd have had them. True. But they also used punt guns and small howitzers to take 100 ducks at a time. Oh, and that neat argument that inlines were invented in 1830. They really caught on didn't they? It took modern manufacturing and components to make them viable and now they are certainly viable. Not all modern muzzleloaders fit into this category, but most of the ones I talk to went to inlines because they thought they were easier to clean.

Dan