|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,482 Likes: 28
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,482 Likes: 28 |
Interesting bow and quiver. I will attempt to remember that book and look for it when next shopping for reading material for next work season. Interesting that I also use a Howatt, "The Stick" according to the markings on the bow, my first a 45Lb and the newer one (By Martin) is a 55lb.
Not mine, but the pics on this forum show what I use:
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=006589;p=1
Now, for a question regarding your beliefs on an "ethical" view of sportmanship and such things. Again, we may disagree.
Your statement: "Sportsmanship matters, which for me means taking game birds only on the wing"
You mention, somewhere I believe, hunting elk with your bow.
My "ethical" question:
Do you believe it is "unsporting" to take a target of opportunity, lets say a grouse, with your bow while out hunting elk?
If not "unsporting", would you let said grouse get off the ground first?
Awaiting your response,
Geno
PS, it is my opinion that the invective you use to denigrate the legal behavior of some of our members adds nothing to the conversation, further inflames them against you, leading to personal attacks on YOUR character, and will not in the least help to convince them that some things "might" be better if accomplished in a different manner.
Good question. I carry a blunt with me while hunting elk in case I run into a grouse, want to practice estimating range, etc. I've killed one with it. I killed one with a rock once, too. Those were incidental kills while pursuing other game, scouting, etc. In my view that's a very different scenario than riding around in an ATV with a revolver loaded with bird shot specifically intending to pot shoot grouse. It's also more difficult to kill a grouse with a bow than the way that fellow killed his. Regarding your last point, I came here after the UCC shooting to float a plan to help reduce gun violence. The very first response was to call me a traitor, the second was GFY, etc. Your suggestion assumes the guys here are reasonable, thoughtful individuals. Their behavior doesn't support that assumption. Paddler, here's hoping you had a nice enough day. For the moment we seem to have established that taking a grouse, incidental to the pursuit of other game, or some other activities, is at least somewhat "sporting". Correct? First, do you know for sure that the OP was using bird shot? If so, is it really a big deal as it seems more "sporting" than a cast or jacketed bullet because the range would be limited and therefor relatively more sporting, no? Another poster also mentioned this I believe. Second, do we know for sure that the OP was riding around specifically to shoot grouse that day? Perhaps Shrapnel was scouting for other game, riding fence, sightseeing, testing a rebuilt motor on the ATV.. There could be numerous reasons for him to be out in the woods. Third, do we know Mr. Shrapnel's physical state. Is he capable of walking miles for a few grouse? If no, should he give up hunting them? If yes, and he is capable, how far from his mode of transportation (outside of legal requirements and hunting from "public" roads as in some states) must he be before shooting a grouse (with any chosen method) in order to meet "sporting" guidelines? 100 feet? 100 yards? a mile? Fourth, your statement: "It's also more difficult to kill a grouse with a bow than the way that fellow killed his" Is it really? Do we know his skill level with that revolver? Do we know the accuracy of the load he was using in that revolver? Have we established a distance to each of the birds taken by Mr. Shrapnel? Perhaps a seasoned archer taking a grouse with a blunt while practicing estimating distances has an easier shot at 10 yds or so than a man with a 4" revolver at 25 yds? Is it more dificult to kill one with a rock, as you state you have, if the rock thrower is an accomplished or practiced ball player? Fifth, your statement: "Your suggestion assumes the guys here are reasonable, thoughtful individuals. Their behavior doesn't support that assumption" Yes, I tend to make that assumption first, then decide on the basis of evidence as to which ones aren't. Many seem to be. Some, I agree with a lot of what they say, but not all. A few I really, really DO NOT want to meet. Some of them I especially do not want to meet in a dark alley! The majority seem to me to be like most folks I know. They tend to be reasonable to a point, thoughtful enough, but don't p--s them off or they get cranky. Their behavior mostly supports my assumption. As long as I do my part to not offend them. I was questiong your behavior, the manner in which you address them and call into question their behavior (specifically Mr Shrapnel's shooting of grouse with a revolver). It is entirely your choice to use whatever method of communicating your displeasure you think best. I do tend to hold to the old adage of "flies and honey". If you are attempting to sway their thinking and thereby changing their behavior, you may be going about it the wrong way. You might have noticed I don't do too bad a job of communicating with what limited knowledge of the English language I have. I'm not always good at using it well, my wife is always telling me to "use your words". I have been known to use a certain limited spectrum of the dictionary, that part usually "not used in polite company", too frequently in conveying an idea. I used to use physical means (throwing crap!) to make my displeasure known. I try not to engage the folks here in that kind of discourse, as it tends to rile them (and me) up. And frankly, I don't like losing. Some of these fellas are way better at it than I am! Discussions about "sportsmanlike" conduct seem to me to be like the one about pornagraphy... "I can't describe it but I know what it is when I see it". Unfortunately, your eyes, their eyes, and my eyes tend to see thing differently. In the spirit of politeness, I wish you the best in your field pursuits, even if your ideas of "sportsmanship" differ from mine. Please forgive any typos and msipleinngs. Geno PS, Field Grade, I AM NOT pontificating. Blathering on like a gray haired ol' fool maybe, but definitely Not pontificating. No No NO. PPS, Paddler and others: Because fishng has been mentioned already, is it ethical and sporting to practice "catch and release" fishing? Essentialy, one is releasing a tired and wounded anlmal back into nature. Sometimes with the idea that one might catch, wound, and release it again in the future? Would you stalk and "blunt" a big game animal, or shoot it with a non-lethal paintball type gun, assuming of course that it was within the law to do so?
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,482 Likes: 28
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,482 Likes: 28 |
I can't believe I've read 14 pages of this.
This rain's gotta stop soon... There's 14 pages? dang, I musta missed something. I'll have to go back an re-read it again. Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,437 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 16,437 Likes: 2 |
Didja have to put stilts on him so he could retrieve?
I've always been a curmudgeon - now I'm an old curmudgeon. ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,482 Likes: 28
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,482 Likes: 28 |
We got more today, we used a dog to appease the sportsmen... Kudos, to the "dog" for helping out today. A liver or gizzard seems in order. Nice smile too Shrapnel. I like seeing happy faces around here. Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,170 Likes: 5
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,170 Likes: 5 |
Didja have to put stilts on him so he could retrieve? Was thinking the dog is SUPER DOG!
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,482 Likes: 28
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,482 Likes: 28 |
It might have been hard for me to resist. Turkey is good eatin'
Good luck on your deer stand.
Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18,243
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 18,243 |
PPS, Paddler and others: Because fishng has been mentioned already, is it ethical and sporting to practice "catch and release" fishing? Essentialy, one is releasing a tired and wounded anlmal back into nature. Sometimes with the idea that one might catch, wound, and release it again in the future? Pontification aside ...that's a great question...and one I love hearing asked of the "purist" fly fishermen around here. They usually mumble something about "irrelevance" and walk off.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,482 Likes: 28
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,482 Likes: 28 |
Didja have to put stilts on him so he could retrieve? Was thinking the dog is SUPER DOG! Shhhhh, he's really a "mogwai". ALIEN technology you know. Tells Mr Shrapnel "right" where them grouses is. Before the folks with regular dogs can find them. Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,170 Likes: 5
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,170 Likes: 5 |
Didja have to put stilts on him so he could retrieve? Was thinking the dog is SUPER DOG! Shhhhh, he's really a "mogwai". ALIEN technology you know. Tells Mr Shrapnel "right" where them grouses is. Before the folks with regular dogs can find them. Geno Ahh..gotcha.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,482 Likes: 28
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,482 Likes: 28 |
There's an ecological bent to that question too. Around here, as you know from living nearby, there is excellent smallmouth bass fishing on the Snake River. It just so happens that there are endangered salmon smolts, along with their non-endangered cousins, in the river at various times of the year. What do smallmouth like to eat? and yet, some of the bass fishers would never consider keeping any smallmouth, especially a large one that just loves to eat smaller (endangered?) fishes.
And our fisheries agency PAY people to fish for native pikeminnow, which the salmon co-evolved with (assuming evolution of course).
Ah, the old "irrelevance" ploy, it works when one doesn't have an anwer I guess.
Have a nice evening, they're about to "blow taps" here (day is done....) and I do actually have some work to do before my relief comes in at 1800.
Geno
PS, for those readers wondering, smallmouth fillets laid in a greased baking pan, slathered with some Mayo, and sprinkled with paprika, baked until flaky, are delicious. Also great deep fried for fish and chips. Help out a salmon! Eat a smallmouth.
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 22,274 |
I'm guessing Paddler would be okay with this photo. but this one might make his head spin...
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,542 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,542 Likes: 2 |
Didja have to put stilts on him so he could retrieve? Was thinking the dog is SUPER DOG! Looks like a Shi Tzu. He tells Shrap that "there's a grouse right over there, I Shi Tzu not." Shrap does his thing, they both are happy.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,170 Likes: 5
Campfire Oracle
|
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 96,170 Likes: 5 |
Didja have to put stilts on him so he could retrieve? Was thinking the dog is SUPER DOG! Looks like a Shi Tzu. He tells Shrap that "there's a grouse right over there, I Shi Tzu not." Shrap does his thing, they both are happy.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,482 Likes: 28
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 45,482 Likes: 28 |
Didja have to put stilts on him so he could retrieve? Was thinking the dog is SUPER DOG! Looks like a Shi Tzu. He tells Shrap that "there's a grouse right over there, I Shi Tzu not." Shrap does his thing, they both are happy. this^^^^^^ Multiplied a few times. Good thing I wasn't chewing my dinner. Thanks Vic Geno
The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men. In it is contentment In it is death and all you seek (Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)
member of the cabal of dysfunctional squirrels?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,778
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,778 |
Had a very nice afternoon. Convinced my wife, who is by no means an outdoorsy type, to go for a ride to see the Fall colors. She even allowed me to take the dog and a gun along. I took her up to the mountains east of here, about 9500'. She took the photos. First, a good dog on point: Next, a funny looking guy with a dusky grouse of the year, taken on the wing with a SxS, just like God intended: Last, a lovely little 20 gauge Piotti Westlake. This isn't as ornate as a King I, but is every bit as well made on the inside where it counts. It just may be my favorite gun: To answer a couple of previous questions. No, I don't catch and release much. I fish for just a few types of fish, all of which I like to eat. When I catch them, they go for a boat ride. We put about 600# of albacore in my boat in two days of fishing this year. Could have caught more, but I only have a limited cooler space and ice capacity. Since tuna can be 25F warmer than water temp, cooling is extremely important in order to produce sashimi grade fish. That means a flake ice/salt water slurry, so ~15 fish is all I can hold. Two, I like Ruger Number 1s. I had own two of them, a 257 Roberts and a 375 H&H. Couldn't tolerate the vertical stringing and so sold them. Cool guns, though.
The true hunter counts his achievement in proportion to the effort involved and the fairness of the sport. Saxton Pope
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,717
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,717 |
Hey Piddle Shrap, congrats on a nice day out and thanks for sharing.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,411 Likes: 5
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,411 Likes: 5 |
We are loading up right now for another killing spree. Too bad the malcontents won't be along to enjoy the spectacle. I am sure I have spent more time peeing in the woods than those guys ever have hunting...
Loaded up early this morning and even took the wife along. She did a fine job of moving the Subaru every so often so I didn't have to walk back every time. Walked a few miles through the soggy jungle of CRP and flushed literally 50-60 sharptails but they were all at 50-100 yards. And then of course they got up in the wind and flew until they were out of sight. Started to get mildly disappointed and the mangina was getting damp and chilly but luckily finally stumbled onto a couple of close flushers. Eastern Montana snobbery at its finest.... People keep telling me there's bird pocket in the vest but I haven't found them yet. Damn - those aviators take that pic over the top!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 22,000 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 22,000 Likes: 3 |
Over the years the small game ran into the thousands, but the only record kept was on blue grouse when I killed from 41 to 43 of the big birds for three successive years with a sixgun -Elmer Keith " Sixguns"
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,848 Likes: 3
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,848 Likes: 3 |
Classic suburban Utard.
Expensive rigging, no common sense.
Too bad you can't buy class.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,472 |
I think we have all learned something from this thread...
Valsdad aka Geno is hilarious!
|
|
|
|
527 members (1Longbow, 160user, 222Sako, 10ring1, 222ND, 10Glocks, 70 invisible),
2,300
guests, and
1,153
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,572
Posts18,531,929
Members74,041
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|