|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,121
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,121 |
Just because a handgun (hand in the singular tense) was designed so it COULD be shot with one hand doesn't mean it was designed so the operator MUST use just one hand.
There's way too much history of handguns being held all sorts of ways for such a change in definition to withstand a challenge in the world of common-sense or a court of law.
Attaching a stock is one thing, but a forearm is something else altogether.
Handguns with "forend" grips - that may or may not be used by the operator - have been around for a long time.
The uninitiated are always easily impressed. NRA Endowment Member
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,101 |
Sounds to me like Trh just needs to get laid
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,114 Likes: 68
Campfire Sage
|
OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,114 Likes: 68 |
Just because a handgun (hand in the singular tense) was designed so it COULD be shot with one hand doesn't mean it was designed so the operator MUST use just one hand. Preach it, brother. Spot on. Now we need to make the ATF recognize that basic common sense statement and toss out their new interpretation of "redesigned."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,878
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,878 |
Is this just another way to waste an otherwise useful Sunday afternoon?
I trust BATF much less than most here, but I'd like to see a case where interpretation of 2-handed firing has been classified as redesign in arrest or prosecution before believing this stuff.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty of give me death! P. Henry
Deus vult!
Rhodesians all now
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,699
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,699 |
Great idea to get more people into bullseye. Bob Good man. Keep that other hand as far from the handgun as possible, so as to avoid any criminal liability under Title II of the NFA based on the ATF's new interpretation of the word "redesign." Keeps your balls warm on cold mornings, too. Bob
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 16,000 |
"The GCA does not define the term “redesign” and therefore ATF applies the common meaning. “Redesign” is defined as “to alter the appearance or function of.” See e.g. Webster’s II New College Dictionary, Third Ed. (2005)."
In other words, as they explain it, by the method of use alone, absent any "alteration of appearance," one may "redesign" a non-NFA firearm (such as a handgun) into an NFA regulated classification, thus exposing oneself to criminal liability absent the appropriate paperwork and tax payment.
I don't know how you got from the first paragraph to the second paragraph.
THE BIRTH PLACE OF GERONIMO
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,885 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,885 Likes: 6 |
I just received an Official Notice Of Clarification regarding this two handed issue from the B.A.T.F. >>> http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/33141722.jpg <<<
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,114 Likes: 68
Campfire Sage
|
OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,114 Likes: 68 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,114 Likes: 68
Campfire Sage
|
OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,114 Likes: 68 |
"The GCA does not define the term “redesign” and therefore ATF applies the common meaning. “Redesign” is defined as “to alter the appearance or function of.” See e.g. Webster’s II New College Dictionary, Third Ed. (2005)."
In other words, as they explain it, by the method of use alone, absent any "alteration of appearance," one may "redesign" a non-NFA firearm (such as a handgun) into an NFA regulated classification, thus exposing oneself to criminal liability absent the appropriate paperwork and tax payment.
I don't know how you got from the first paragraph to the second paragraph. They rely on the "or function" part to say that no physical change to the handgun is required to make it a Title II violation. If you use it in such a way as to make it function as a two handed weapon (by using two hands), that's enough to "redesign" it into an Any Other Weapon classification, requiring a tax stamp to avoid felony charges.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,653 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,653 Likes: 3 |
I would like to see the ATF try and confront me while I am shooting my S&W 460 and S&W 500 with both hands. I do not think that they would get very close to me.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,114 Likes: 68
Campfire Sage
|
OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,114 Likes: 68 |
Is this just another way to waste an otherwise useful Sunday afternoon?
I trust BATF much less than most here, but I'd like to see a case where interpretation of 2-handed firing has been classified as redesign in arrest or prosecution before believing this stuff. It probably won't ever happen, because a judge would laugh them to scorn for their interpretation of "redesign" to include a method of use consistent with a prohibited design. But they like to make us worry. It's a power trip.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,114 Likes: 68
Campfire Sage
|
OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,114 Likes: 68 |
Keeps your balls warm on cold mornings, too. Bob Yep.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,090 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 11,090 Likes: 2 |
I would like to see the ATF try and confront me while I am shooting my S&W 460 and S&W 500 with both hands. I do not think that they would get very close to me. Pretty funny stuff.
"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon
"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,198 Likes: 3
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,198 Likes: 3 |
I would like to see the ATF try and confront me while I am shooting my S&W 460 and S&W 500 with both hands. I do not think that they would get very close to me. I would think that, with the proper sights attached, that any such idiotic attempt by an ATF agent would be from a distance of AT LEAST 200 yards..
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,408
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 14,408 |
really? you're reaching on this one. no way would your interpretation stand up in a court of law. there are more important things to worry about like whether bruce jenner still has his cock and/or balls or if its just a real fuggen mess down there.
My diploma is a DD214
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,993
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,993 |
There is a difference between function and use. The pistol still functions the same whether you use one hand, two hands, your feet, or your mouth and tongue.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,114 Likes: 68
Campfire Sage
|
OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,114 Likes: 68 |
There is a difference between function and use. The pistol still functions the same whether you use one hand, two hands, your feet, or your mouth and tongue. You and I know that, but they are trying to create the impression that function means how its used, even without physical alteration. They're being very broad in their interpretation in the hope of intimidating gun owners. No judge would see it that way, though, unless he too had an axe to grind.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,885 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,885 Likes: 6 |
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,438
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,438 |
The_Real_Hawkeye - Is this for real? What moronic "apparatchik" wasted a butt-load of taxpayer money and dreamed this BS up? I mean...what's ATF going to charge you with... a hand job! LOL Homesteader
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,114 Likes: 68
Campfire Sage
|
OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,114 Likes: 68 |
The_Real_Hawkeye - Is this for real? What moronic "apparatchik" wasted a butt-load of taxpayer money and dreamed this BS up? I mean...what's ATF going to charge you with... a hand job! LOL Homesteader Well, they certainly have since January changed their operating interpretation of the word redesign to include methods of use, without regard for the absence of physical alteration. Put that together with the laws already long on the books about redesigning a handgun into a two-handed firearm, and what you get is a felony attached to taking a two-handed hold of a handgun (a weapon that must be designed for use with one hand) when firing it absent the appropriate tax stamp for a Title II AOW firearm. I agree, however, that they'd never actually try to enforce their new interpretation of the word redesign, since the first halfway honest judge that saw it would laugh them out of court.
|
|
|
|
330 members (1badf350, 222Sako, 1Longbow, 160user, 06hunter59, 12344mag, 28 invisible),
10,202
guests, and
1,054
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,195,340
Posts18,546,412
Members74,060
|
Most Online21,066 May 26th, 2024
|
|
|
|