|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,093
Campfire Outfitter
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,093 |
There you have it, a coating.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,347
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,347 |
How do you feel about titanium actions?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,344
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,344 |
How do you feel about titanium actions? I'll jump into Dennis's thread. I'm building a lightweight rifle and it has a Pierce Ti receiver. Only advantage is weight. 1 Pound lighter than a 700, but without special coatings the bolt movement is sticky. Ti is not a good alternative unless weight is paramount and money doesn't matter.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,344
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,344 |
Curious -
Do 416 actions have an issue with safety?
What are you building and for what purpose? No, they just can't be nitrided at the hardness that is required of an action. A 416 barrel can be as it is much softer- being more tempered. I really don't think it is the best material for actions- I would prefer at PH stainless but I guess it is hard to work with and no longer used. Dennis, Bat uses 17-4.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
What are differences/advantages between 17-4, 15-5 and 416 for action making Butch ? I see Nesika uses 15-5 and H-S uses 17-4, while most others use 416. Not sure what Borden uses.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,344
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,344 |
I think, if you search the physical character of the 17-4PH, you will find it superior to 416. I'm not familiar with 15-5. 17-4 is more expensive and a little more difficult to machine.
For the most part, all of the mentioned metal will make a safe receiver.
I prefer a CM for 90% of my builds.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
Thanks Butch. Do any of the custom 700 clone action makers make the receiver and bolt out of SS or are they all using CM bolts now.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,344
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,344 |
As far as I know, all are CM. SS against SS produces a tendency to gall.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 786
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 786 |
Michael Jordan once told me that no one likes name droppers.
I would like to give a shout out to sidewalks for keeping me off the streets
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,129
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,129 |
What are differences/advantages between 17-4, 15-5 and 416 for action making Butch ? I see Nesika uses 15-5 and H-S uses 17-4, while most others use 416. Not sure what Borden uses. Borden originally started with 15-5 and I guess Jim had issues with it and now uses 416!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
What does Glen from Defiance Machine use on his actions ?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,093
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,093 |
What does Glen from Defiance Machine use on his actions ? 416 SS is his standard as most everyone seems to want stainless steel everything. My first action from his was CM and I love it. Several who have made 17-4 stainless actions have switched to 416. Jim Borden was on here a few months ago and said that he would be glad to enlighten me on 416 as an action steel if I called him. I really didn't want 416 so I didn't call. I also was interested in trying a new action but he wanted too much of a premium for CM. He says it costs him more and I can't argue that. It is no great secret that 416 SS isn't as strong under cold conditions. In fact, John Krieger would not sell light contour SS barrels for a while (maybe still has that policy). This has always weighed in the back of my mind. Rifle looneys are always testing, pushing the limits and loading their own ammo. It just seems prudent to use the best material for the job. Maybe if I lived in coastal Alaska or the gulf coast I would prefer stainless
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,093
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,093 |
Oh, I ordered another Rebel action today, duplicate of the first...
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
Tell me more about the Rebel you ordered. I'm leaning toward a Rebel with the new 3 position safety they just came out with for them. I assume these Rebel actions take any Remington hardware such as BDL bottom metal, mag boxes, triggers. I want to get McMillans LA aluminum Oberndorf style BM to keep the weight down and probably throw a Timney trigger or maybe a SS Shilen trigger although I've heard mixed reports about how crisp they are compared to the Timney's.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,093
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,093 |
You tell Norm what you intend to do for a magazine and he will inlet the action accordingly. I wanted ADL style. He can do Wyats, AICS et al. Since I am using a 6.5x47L I hardly need any additional length.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
Thanks Dennis. What was the wait time approx. ?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,129
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 9,129 |
What does Glen from Defiance Machine use on his actions ? 416 SS is his standard as most everyone seems to want stainless steel everything. My first action from his was CM and I love it. Several who have made 17-4 stainless actions have switched to 416. Jim Borden was on here a few months ago and said that he would be glad to enlighten me on 416 as an action steel if I called him. I really didn't want 416 so I didn't call. I also was interested in trying a new action but he wanted too much of a premium for CM. He says it costs him more and I can't argue that. It is no great secret that 416 SS isn't as strong under cold conditions. In fact, John Krieger would not sell light contour SS barrels for a while (maybe still has that policy). This has always weighed in the back of my mind. Rifle looneys are always testing, pushing the limits and loading their own ammo. It just seems prudent to use the best material for the job. Maybe if I lived in coastal Alaska or the gulf coast I would prefer stainless Iv'e talked with Jim about Kriegers smaller contour policy in SS and jim pretty much said there is no basis for it, Hart, RC PN and many others make smaller contours in SS with no issues that Iv'e ever heard of , how cold would it have to be to cause a barrel to burst?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,666
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,666 |
Tell me more about the Rebel you ordered. I'm leaning toward a Rebel with the new 3 position safety they just came out with for them. I assume these Rebel actions take any Remington hardware such as BDL bottom metal, mag boxes, triggers. I want to get McMillans LA aluminum Oberndorf style BM to keep the weight down and probably throw a Timney trigger or maybe a SS Shilen trigger although I've heard mixed reports about how crisp they are compared to the Timney's. RD, I ordered a CM Rebel earlier this year. Did a Defiance Group Buy here back in the Spring and the 3-pos safety was one feature I really wanted to include. Still waiting as I also went with their CRF option. They are still sorting these two things out, so trying to remain patient. All Remington 700 components should fit, no problem. As noted in an earlier post, the bolt handle configuration could be an issue for the stock fit. One quirky things with the Rebel model in CM - Defiance does not offer a CM recoil lug so you will receive a stainless steel part. There are after-market recoil lugs in CM but these do not match Defiance's pin placement.
I'm becoming more tolerant of intolerant people.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,093
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,093 |
I didn't order a CRF, I wanted regular push-feed. Norm told me 5 months out.
Both Manners and McMillan have inlet programs for the Defiance rebel.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
|
|
|
|
|
556 members (02bfishn, 160user, 10gaugeman, 16gage, 1Longbow, 1234, 55 invisible),
2,495
guests, and
1,275
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,430
Posts18,470,780
Members73,931
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://s264.photobucket.com/user/beakbuster/media/Rifles/21E9AB81-0A2E-4B7F-8528-AB82F37816AC_zpsodbhd7dp.jpg.html)